Apollo Justice in Dual Destinies: Apollo Justice Trilogy

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[@osiahene]

A core aspect of Ace Attorney that the Apollo Justice Trilogy is missing because of Dual Destines and Spirit of Justice is a shared cast of characters.

[@joebuscus924]

I am pleased that SOJ has more of a balance between Phoenix and Apollo than DD. There sadly wasn't much for Athena to do after DD, though.

[@thatoneguy5347]

Something felt weird when they started marketing PHOENIX WRIGHT Ace Attorney: Dual Destinies as an Apollo game, because it can’t really decide WHOSE game it is. It feels like it WANTS to be a Phoenix game (his name is in the title, after all), while wanting to introduce and flesh out Athena as the new character (which kinda got fumbled), and having Apollo having a great arc but not enough focus/time

[@pglassplays]

Oh yeah lol I forgot dual destinies is called ‘Phoenix Wright: Dual Destinies’ lol that’s wild

[@chippedgoat]

Based 3DS cleaning in the backround

[@AndyyWithAY]

Dual Destinies was the first time my AA enjoyment has ever gone down. AJ was comfort Ace Attorney. Very small cast. Trucy and AJ's dynamic is great. I like edgy Phoenix, Klavier is something entirely different from the prosecution, and I LOVE Ema. The world reset went great. DD retconned a lot of what we had just established. I don't dislike Athena, but she should have been a minor character. Phoenix got all the cases up until T&T. How they incorporate Mia and Edgeworth there are great. After 2 games of straight Phoenix, I don't think anyone is hard pressed about 2.5 cases not being playing as Phoenix. Phoenix was a huge part of AJ. Then instead of TWO lawyers they split the time between 3. DD has a lot of low points for me despite it having some great characters. The execution is ultimately just not good to me. And why was Klavier not prosecutor in 5-3? At least for some training at the law school?? Missed opportunity. DD to a tea

[@SuperGalaxy]

To talk about this topic way after the game was announced, and even after the game came out, feels a little pointless. We all knew this already that it was kind of weird, but that’s what Capcom decided. And while DD doesn’t fit so much with the Apollo Justice trilogy mantra. You can’t tell me that spirit of Justice doesn’t because that game heavily focuses on a lot of elements of Apollo’s character and background. Who knows what the plan is for AA7, but I will say that it’s awesome that people can play the 3DS games without the need of 3DS. And talking about the title being a little misleading is just pointless in my personal opinion because as you said, the main reason for the existence of the trilogy is so that people can have easy access to it.

[@natyfop]

It's kinda sad to think about what could have been the second trilogy if Capcom wanted to follow up on AA4 naturally. Even though I had fun playing DD, I kept waiting for the new characters to take the lead, but Phoenix took all the spotlight. Athena ended up being a glorified assistant (an assistant that leads one case, kinda like Susato, who did it better) and Apollo had the final case yoinked from him. Why did Phoenix lead the case called "Turnabout for Tomorrow"? Why did the new generation barely contribute? Why was Athena just watching while her own backstory got solved for her? If the problem was that the fans only wanted Phoenix back, why shove a new protagonist into this mess? Turnabout for Tomorrow could have been even greater and hit the highs of the original trilogy if they planned the game better.

[@pglassplays]

SO true I love that- turnabout for tomorrow where we don’t get to play as either of the new leads! You make a great point it’s a bummer :(

[@PipeGuy64Bit]

I appreciate you properly articulating why I feel Capcom calling the sequel trilogy the Apollo Justice Trilogy is very disingenuous. Also I feel this series has hit a major dead end with the ending of Spirit of Justice. I think the best direction to take things would be rebooting the franchise because I cannot imagine where else to take things that would be reasonable

[@itselisha222]

My hope (probaly a naive hope) is that calling 4, 5 and 6 a trilogy means that they plan to take 7 in a new direction. And I agree, TGAA proved how refreshing an all new cast can be. It's time to wipe the slate clean.

[@claireketch9332]

with the defendant being an ORCA!!! hahaha- great video, as always. well done and insightful! :)

[@DanPankrat]

Phoenix: *having flashbacks of cross-examining of parrot*

[@Just_Kumoki]

Yes it is, capcom says it is so it is

[@brandonm6705]

He's back when we needed him the most!

[@malaizze]

AA5 is maybe my least favorite video game I’ve ever played. Like… I genuinely did not enjoy a single case. Plus Klavier playing Guitar’s Serenade at a school concert after he promised to never play it again in AA4 made me do my own little villain breakdown - how do you get him so wrong?! I will say, though, that Bobby Fulbright the Phantom were the only things the kept me sane. Their ending sucked but I just like to pretend that never happened and substitute the Dual Destinies alternative ending fancomic in my brain. Simon Blackquill/The Phantom is an underrated pair and I will die defending it

[@chestbumphero]

Looking back on the story surrounding Apollo, it does feel a bit sad for him because it almost feels like he suffered the fate of Gohan from Dragon Ball. What I mean is that we have this naturally gifted "son" protagonist that has taken some great blessings from the first series but due to not wanting to either overshadow or audience reception, is relegated to needing to be stagnant with some story sprinkled in. Aside from the serious story beats that happen in both DD and SoJ, when we get to play Apollo in both games he is treated as a joke at times. Which is a shame because both games have very important moments for him but the former kind of brushes off the concern which doesn't feel all that great (how does a writer think it's smart to kill off a character with the illusion that we should be connected with them when they were never mentioned or shown until the moment they die. They had this correct in the first game when Mia is at least shown to be a proper mentor and still lingers despite getting killed not long soon after).

[@tailsspin621]

The reason this happened was Professor Layton's fault. The original creator wanted to move on from Phoenix, as his story had concluded. Capcom executives wanted to keep him around, but ultimately the creator won. But then the creator made ghost trick, and did a crossover with Layton that took a long time to finish. In this time Capcom gave the mainline games to the spinoff team, and mandated the return of Phoenix as the lead.

[@herrforesight-Satanisking]

SOJ is a fake out. It’s clearly mainly Apollo’s game

[@DanPankrat]

I understand why Apollo was on a background of Dual Destinies: there are SO many years passed since the release of AA4, Phoenix is still more popular, and Apollo just won’t sell new entry of the main series. And I don’t say that DD is the bad game: the plot and characters are cool, Simon Blackquill is my favourite prosecutor in the series, and I love new mechanics. However, seems like in DD Apollo was just abandoned, so I consider that Spirit of Justice - is one BIG apology to Apollo fans for Dual Destinies. However, I don’t know why, but I like the second trilogy more than original. Maybe because of its darker tone…

[@TheGerkuman]

The weird thing for me is that, despite how kinda weird Spirit of Justice was, it ended up giving us The Magical Turnabout. It's the AJ:AA sequel we never expected to get.

[@SailorGuardian]

Yes exactly! I had an argument with my friend when the announced the trilogy as the "Apollo Justice Trilogy" as their stance was Capcom was finally acknowledging they were Apollo's games and I disagree and jokingly said "They opened Dual Destinies with killing him!" Of course that's a fake out but I think it does show they kinda did have to kill Apollo to let Athena get some spotlight. I didn't hate Dual Destinies when I first played but was disappointed with how it tried to focus on Apollo, Athena and Phoenix as main playable characters and also with how little it featured Klavier as I thought he and Apollo would be the new Edgeworth and Phoenix respectfully. And since it didn't seem to fix the issues of Dual Destinies, when Spirit of Justice came out I just couldn't get into it at all. It kinda made me drop of Ace Attorney all together. I didn't even bother getting into the Great Ace Attorney games until well after they were packaged together as Chronicles. I bought it when it was on sale and those games are so good I'm sad I waited so long to get into them! Nice to hear other people have these same thoughts and feelings about the games.

[@FlamingoSugar]

DD frustrates me so much 'cause AJ was clearly meant as a 'passing the torch' game between Phoenix and Apollo. But then it got mixed reception and Capcom panicked. Instead of continuing Apollo's story, they pulled Phoenix back in for what I can only assume was fanservice and then threw in Athena 'cause...girl??? And I feel like the series as a whole really suffered. Apollo and Athena weren't given the space they needed because Capcom was banking on Phoenix's popularity rather than trusting that a great Ace Attorney game can grow and exist without him taking the lead. Also, when they announced the 'Apollo Justice' trilogy and then showed the splash art for AJ, DD, and SOJ and in each one Apollo gets further in the background, I'm just. Okay. Sure.

[@Terranigma23]

Yeah PG is back. 😁

[@Flameclaw123]

When I first played Dual Destinies, I really enjoyed a lot of the earlier stuff, but took a break midway through the space station case. I didn't pick the game back up for over a year, at which point I decided to just replay from the beginning since I'd forgotten everything. Then even during that replay my interest dwindled midway through the same case. The case isn't terrible. There are plenty of aspects that I like - I think Apollo doubting Athena and taking a stance as a lawyer with a different set of ideals compared to Phoenix is great and makes sense given his past experiences with Kristoph, but then they kind of drop this at the end and it doesn't become a throughline for his character. I think Metis and Aura are compelling characters. Theoretically, a detective with access to his own crime scenes is interesting, even if the resolution left a lot to be desired. And, yeah, I enjoyed the Edgeworth fanservice because I am and always will be an Edgeworth girlie at heart. But the final product is such a patchwork of ideas that crams so many different surprise backstories together that it just ended up completely unmemorable for me. I don't think Dual Destinies is a bad game, but I think it's the game in the AA franchise that I have the least interest in replaying, and the one that feels the most lacking in one coherent, overarching plot or theme to tie its cases together

[@WannabeMarysue]

I really want to like Duel Destinies and Spirit of Justice more. They have great moments and can be very fun in places. At least, their flaw isnt a lack of ambition. The video covers DD broadly but barely touches SoJ. Is there a reason? I also think the post AA4 games are smartly streamlined, although unfortunately haven't perfected a satisfying difficulty curve. Although no Ace Attorney game in the entire series ever has a Just Right difficulty level, imo. AA1-AA4 can be very frustrating, too hard and too unclear, like classic adventure games. Post AA4 meanwhile is too easy and I fall asleep 😴😴 (Including TGAA, its too easy!!!).

[@notangiee2155]

oh WAIT THE KING HAS BEEN BACK! I can’t wait to binge your videos man

[@blumoontoons2313]

I don't know if anyone else shares the same sentiment, but at least with DD specifically, I think the cases have very strong individual merit that makes them really strong - I think Turnabout for Tomorrow is the best example of this because it has such a great maze of mysteries to unravel. This is pretty great on its own, but this isn't a case like Farewell, and you actually nailed part of what makes it such a beloved case. Farewell isn't bogged down by being tied to a larger narrative. The only connecting thread is how Phoenix grows as a character from the experience, which works as a great through line for JfA as a whole, so why does Tomorrow not end up having that same kind of payoff despite being an even more dramatic case with higher stakes? Like I said, just isolating the case by its own merits, I find it extremely strong... but the case ISN'T standalone, now is it? I heard from another video (and also some fans-, and I am inclined to agree) that it may be the structure of the game. While DD broke the ceiling in terms of case number (by having six instead of the usual max of five), you'd at least think that these would be distributed in such a way that the three protags would have two cases each... but that's not even close to true. Athena and Apollo basically get one case and a half each, while Phoenix eats up the rest of the screentime. I think this works really well in Reclaimed since the case is at least partially about him, but why does he have to take center stage in both Cosmic and Tomorrow? It doesn't help that this game is ALSO following hot on the heels of AJ with the whole theme of "The Dark Age of the Law", which is a great idea that doesn't really get a chance to shine. I don't think the cases we have being longer is a good compromise because this doesn't translate to the three attorneys getting fleshed out really well when we also have other important characters like Simon and Fulbright, AND the case-specific characters to work with. I'm not one of the fans that thinks DD is a bad game, but I understand why it has the reputation that it has, and I feel like it maybe would have benefited from maybe shifting the narrative structure itself (instead of five massive cases they could be broken up into smaller cases that would give the overbloated amount of plot points time to breathe), or go in the JfA route and not even have the one giant story we need to follow, instead having it be a game wherw the cases are all unrelated but we witness how they affect and change both the newbie (Athena) and the slightly more experienced attorney (Apollo) while under the supervision of a great mentor (Phoenix)? I started this by making a point on how great Tomorrow is by itself, but once you include things like the backstories of at least THREE important characters, how it ties into the Dark Age of the Law, how we have to give time to old faces who get shoved in for fanservice, and we end up with no time to really understand the big bad phantom aside from being a glorified boogeyman, it ultimately makes Tomorrow (and the game as a whole) feel like a bloated letdown because it has far too many high expectations to live up to that it can't simply deliver on.

[@dratinithedagon7508]

Glad to see ur back