Apple please watch this. - Frore AirJet MacBook Air

[@cristianodettori]

Can't wait to see this presented at Apple Park in 5 years as the iBlow feature

[@Megalaoofania]

this could've been phrased so much better 💀💀

[@benedekfodor269]

I don't think they will do it, literally nobody would buy the pro

[@johndsdevblogs]

With subscription 999.99/months

[@gettodachoppa669]

iBlow💀

[@playerzking]

@@benedekfodor269 they can just pull an iphone trick and renaming the last gen into non-pro series

[@itranscendencei7964]

Solid state cooling is the one thing I've been the most excited for in the PC space for a while now. When it starts making its way into the Handheld PC's like the Steam Deck, I'm going to be so stoked.

[@hishnash]

Cost and power draw is what will limit it from hand held consoles like the steam deck. The cooling potential per W Is not as good as a classical fan and the cost is much much higher.

[@bangerxshane]

​@@hishnashoh really?

[@itranscendencei7964]

@@hishnash Hopefully over time it will become more efficient and less expensive as the tech advances. It's still very new at the moment, so it costing a lot doesn't surprise me nor does the efficiency. Like all new tech, I'm sure it will get better with time.

[@TheNuclearBolton]

Passive*

[@reallycarson]

@@bangerxshaneYes. R&D alone makes this unattainable for handheld consoles (at this time).

[@arkel_77]

One thing they didn’t mention is that if these were integrated from the beginning, the vapor chamber could be designed to move heat directly to the copper pads on the cooling units, unlocking even better thermal performance

[@TheDarksideFNothing]

Yeah, no doubt if designed around using those they could make it much more efficient. I think each unit can remove 5 watts of heat IIRC and it looked like they were only getting 5 watts out of the three combined. I'd guess probably because of inefficient transfer.

[@_yuri]

​@@TheDarksideFNothingbut these chips itself need a lot of juice

[@TheDarksideFNothing]

@@_yuri if you're talking about Apple silicon then no, that's half the point of them. In this video we saw them all only drawing 20W even before they throttled. If you're talking about the cooling devices iirc these are 1.5W each power draw to cool about 5W, but there are other models coming soon that will be significantly more efficient. Someone else said there's one that's expected to be 1.5W for 10.5W of cooling, but I can't speak for those numbers. Plus, this is hacky edition cooling with these chips. If it were designed from the ground up to incorporate them it would certainly be more effective.

[@TheDarksideFNothing]

@@Edinburgh1000 All they would have to do is give you a setting to turn active cooling off... But at least then you would have the option to have your Air not run totally kneecapped by thermals.

[@siontheodorus1501]

@@Edinburgh1000 they will never do this i think not because of those reason, but so that it won't kill the macbook pro lineup. Also i think recording studios usually have separate room for the recording station and the person that is being recorded so.. i guess it doesn't really matter?

[@JarrodsTech]

I'm probably in the minority, but I specifically got a MacBook Air because it has no fans. It sits directly under a microphone for voice over work and I don't want that interrupting ever.

[@MrNick99]

have an option to turn it off 🤷‍♂

[@ciestermr1848]

M1 didn't overheat right? Then they just screwed up the M2 design

[@piotrd.4850]

@@ciestermr1848 M2 was basically juiced up M1 with new chassis with screwed thermals.

[@mbahmarijan789]

this video is not about fans

[@Pool-h5w]

leave it to jarrodstech to leave a comment about fans on a video without any fans

[@kimigets0fps905]

"I don't want to break this plastic piece right here, I don't want to break this." **aggressively bending the plastic** 8:58

[@mrpresident7191]

I love how Alex talks to us like anyone will ever do this based on this video

[@honer723]

I think he expects everyone tries his ideas😂

[@redwidow1358]

At least one person will be crazy enough to try

[@Chriss_Workshop]

But also alex "i dare you to lick it"

[@jammiewins]

​@@redwidow1358surely you'd just buy a pro at that point?

[@Thurgosh_OG]

@@jammiewins Or just not buy Apple products at all.

[@DesmoPilot2]

That the throttled machine only lost ~400 points over the modified one honestly leaves me more impressed with its passively cooled design. Even while throttling under a torture test it was still able to provide close to its normal power envelope, impressive.

[@tiduszk]

Yeah, it's a neat concept, but that's still ~93% of its peak performance. Once Linus said he could hear it I knew Apple will never do this. Being silent is part of the MacBook Air brand, and especially for only a 7% loss it's just not worth it.

[@mapwheel00]

It's a 5% difference in their torture test, to be specific (actively vs. passively cooled). I can see why they just cost-cut it out of there entirely when there is little to be gained in performance or cooling and a lot to be gained in acoustics. 100% correct design decision by Apple for their entry level laptop. Everyone is chasing those tiny process nodes for a reason.

[@HowlingMoai]

A fanless ultrabook that is decently powerful is exactly why I chose the MacBook Air M1 when it came out over any windows laptop. There’s just no competition yet that actually competes with it on all fronts. Sure, you can find a laptop that’s faster, bigger battery, quieter, and more durable. However, I haven’t found a laptop that beats it at all of these for a reasonable price.

[@DesmoPilot2]

@@tiduszk For real. Conclusion kinda makes the video title look dumb as torture test results confirm Apple was 100% right to go passive for this model.

[@sombrero4316]

if you used your entire case and every component as a passive cpu cooler it's not so difficult to imagine. It's a massive heatsink, the entire computer. Tons of surface area to dissipate the heat including into the human working with it. I don't think it's impressive what other manufacturers would see as a design problem.

[@Groovewonder2]

Y'all should mod a steam deck with these. It already has a design that's dependent on a source of high static pressure. If you could get a vapor chamber wide and thin enough to plonk two of these onto it and then use the freed up depth to channel the exhaust through a heatsink where there already is one, you could probably make an actually compelling product. Hell, you could even skeletonize the grips and block off the rear intake so the high static pressure pulls in air across the hands and keeps them from getting sweaty.

[@chiraggupta9719]

I can smell that mod coming up 😂

[@lemagreengreen]

Not possible. Not enough space, Frore don't produce a single unit that would be capable of cooling the APU in a Steam Deck. You can stack them like this but... space constraints. I think Frore are working on models for higher wattages.

[@Groovewonder2]

@@lemagreengreen how is there not enough room? Those modules are 1/3 the thickness of the fan at most. A wafer thin vapor chamber like what's used here could easily sandwich inbetween a couple modules and still have room for the intake. At worst they have to put the driver circuit in one of the aforementioned skeletonized grips.

[@Therysin]

@@Groovewonder2it can't dissipate the heat within the limits of the space requirements.

[@Groovewonder2]

@@Therysin that's why I added the thing about keeping the heatsink up at the exhaust and ducting it out through it. Use the air movement it creates to its advantage and reuse the air. Sure, it won't be as effective as room temperature air, but airflow is airflow and it should still aid cooling. It's not like the air coming out of the frore units would be 105C. This is more about replacing the loud fan than the frore units doing all the work on their own.

[@davidgunther8428]

This needs to get added to a gaming phone. Good dust filters are a must for a phone!

[@fuyouto]

Water resistance left the chat

[@PuffyfishRBX]

@@fuyoutoipx2-3 is good enoigh

[@EasternAnalogue1289]

​@@fuyouto bold of you to assume a gaming phone will ever go near water

[@samuelloader8213]

​@@EasternAnalogue1289I'd give it less than a day before someone tries gaming in the bath with it

[@tuxr4z3r]

@@EasternAnalogue1289 the only time i am using my phone for gaming, is when me is shitting or bathing... sooo

[@kalpanaarora7214]

Enjoying the tech instead of managing a company that's why we love Linus

[@Avastar_pilot]

Its amazing that this "to good to be true technology" is actually Freaking awesome and starting to get out of the lab.

[@XiaOmegaX]

It exists. It works. But it's like $100 per module and each one can only handle 5 watts worth of heat ejection. $300 to cool a 15W CPU isn't practical outside of the "apple ripoff" profit margin class laptops like macbooks, x1 carbons, etc.

[@twistidclowns]

@@XiaOmegaX Hopefully they just need to scale for the price to drop.

[@zwenkwiel816]

​​@@XiaOmegaXits a novel tech though, still pretty niche. If they scaled up production they could become a lot cheaper. Probably room to make them more efficient as well

[@efad3215]

​@OFFICERJIMMYUTTPBull, your videos are nothing like ltt's

[@ebridgewater]

too good*

[@computeraidedworld1148]

I think reviewing not yet implemented technology is encouraging for the future and really cool. Compared to whatever new phone or ear buds that are out.

[@murroyb]

Imagine Apple bringing back the 12” MacBook with that technology inside. Would be perfect

[@bella_ciao4608]

wish theyd bring it back as a 500 dollar chromebook competitor with a cut down chip or iphone chip or something

[@LambdaMiscellaneous]

@@bella_ciao4608They’re planning something similar, but it might have to be around 14 inches.

[@siinxkj]

@@bella_ciao4608 the iphone soc is still pretty capable, I doubt that it will be 500 because macos is part of the price of the device, unlike windows, you get free software upgrades over many years of the mac

[@mr.mr.8164]

@@bella_ciao4608 it sucks because they can. but they dont listen to the community. they just wanna keep pushing out unrepairable junk that costs 3/4 the price of the device to fix when you take it to them.

[@ryanhamstra49]

@@bella_ciao4608that would be cool… or even a 10” or 11” with an A15 chip? Think of the battery life….. my M1 gets over 12 hours of light use, imagine what the A15 with a MacBook size battery could do for things like web searching and word processing

[@prophoenix212]

That m2 performance out of 20W package is mind blowing

[@agvulpine]

I work in retail. People who use a Ridge Wallet take 70% longer to pay than people with leather wallets. In some cases, they take 10 times as long, always unable to locate their photo ID or their desired pay card in any meaningful way.

[@AverageMichaelJordans]

Every LTT video I've seen in the last half year or so has somebody bringing up a complaint or serious issue with one of their sponsors. It's good to know LMG has such high standards for their sponsors

[@agvulpine]

@@AverageMichaelJordans The sponsor itself isn't a bad sponsor, and living in a free market society there's something for everyone. I just think those people are "wrong" because I said so.

[@AverageMichaelJordans]

Well said

[@bbmattiaspetterjohansson1347]

This poses an interesting correlation / causality conondrum. How can we construct an experiment to see if the ridge wallet causes people to become confused an lazy, or if it is that people people that are confused and lazy are drawn to the Ridge Wallet? They might have had this problem with leather wallets already, and instead of working with their own abilities they assumed that the wallet was the problem and bought the wallet, creating a kind of statistical asshole cluster

[@nsfan96]

Thats why Apple pay is so much better, its way faster than rummaging about for all these silly rewards cards, credit cards, etc.

[@EximiusDux]

Linus is blessing the machine spirit at 14:25.

[@TAMAMO-VIRUS]

Linus is a Tech Priest

[@abdulamar9907]

@@seraphiszurvan AND PASS THE SACRED UNGUENTS!

[@ianseiuli]

I love that Linus is going back to his strengths. I love this content

[@fridaycaliforniaa236]

I hope the "mishap" from this year has finally made him follow the right route and for good this time

[@MrLycan1995]

Linus and Alex f*ing around to do some sketchy project makes the best most interesting LTT videos.

[@hhidd]

@@MrLycan1995 agreed. they somehow alternate both of the "fuck it" and "lets not break it" roles, i guess they control each other's chaos. super entertaining.

[@steelfox1448]

agreed

[@MaurizioOiziruam]

You mean breaking stuff?

[@Triro]

These little air pushers are so cool. They are efficient, move lots of air, in a tiny space.

[@utkarsh1874]

"efficient" lmao

[@zwenkwiel816]

​​@@utkarsh1874for the size. Definitely. A fan this tiny would be totally useless. Not sure about power though.

[@SirPoppy]

​@OFFICERJIMMYUTTPbro joined 5 months ago

[@Scnottaken]

​@@SirPoppyjust report it

[@Quan5021]

​@@ACuriousFellahuh?

[@BlueSkyleaf]

I think solid state cooling's pressure makes it important to think about dust/particle distribution more as they can get caught up in spaces previously inaccessible to them. Awesome tech!

[@hkad6252]

I think the selling point of the Air is that it does not have an opening that lets the inside get dirty over time. A Closed, fanless PC (not a laptop person) is something I really want.

[@yusufsahin3278]

The answer is yes

[@just_very_queer]

first one.

[@iliketurtles50000]

Disagreed

[@yusufsahin3278]

@@just_very_queeragain, yes.

[@yusufsahin3278]

@@iliketurtles50000ı kinda like turtles too

[@yusufsahin3278]

But only if it is medium rare

[@alistairblaire6001]

This would be great tech for the tablet form factor. I had a Surface Pro with an i5 but it was sealed and fanless. It throttled if you even looked at it funny. Something like this would be great to give the CPU just enough air to breathe a little.

[@lucasrem]

alistairblaire6001 Meant that TV table thing, or Windows Phone, i5 in it ? Arc too ? plays games linus ?

[@Lordpickleboy]

fully agree with you this kind of cooling may play a huge role in things outside of laptops but in devices like handhelds to help slim them or cellphones that become molten lava if you even think about opening a game to tablets and something im not sure many have thought about but even in some of these chargers the warp charges can get very very hot and some kind of better more passive kind of cooling in the future may be in the cards to make everything we use day to day more efficient and even slimmer and more portable

[@superluig164]

I'm pretty sure the Surface Pro is not, in fact, fanless. Might have been one of the other Surface tablets?

[@Kahli21]

@@fsh7583 The screen flickering issue was not due to heat. It was a problem with a specific manufacturer's screens that went out on like half of them. It would do that over time even if you didn't use it much.

[@Kahli21]

@@superluig164 I own a SP3, an SP4, and a SP6. I replaced the screen of my SP4 due to the flickering issue, and it does have a fan (which I cleaned). There are several models (5-7?) that have the option to be fanless/passive cooled. My SP3 is an i7 and gets hot AF when using it for anything more intensive than checking my email (jokes), so I have it in the dock with a small fan aimed directly at the back. Side note: that old dock is absolutely baller and I hate that they got rid of it and made the new "dock" a fricken brick instead. I haven't gotten a newer SP because I love the dock so much. It would be even more awesome if it had a cutout back to allow more cooling if you have an external fan setup like I do.

[@emmamitchell1582]

I would have liked to see you talk about the power consumption of the cooling, especially in relation to the normal power consumption of the MacBook. You could also calculate the impact on battery life using the total Wh in the battery.

[@Spentalei]

Agreed. According to their specification it will consume 1.75W. If it's blasting at full power that's an additional 5W of power consumption (considering there are 3). That is not a small number whatsoever.

[@emmamitchell1582]

@@Spentalei that is more than the entire laptop including screen at idle. So runtime cut in half. Of course you don't need cooling at idle. However, this will only add little performance to low power devices as was proven on the video. And for high performance device it doesn't provide enough cooling. I'm not sure where this product will be useful. But I'm excited to see the future!

[@stonep11]

@@SpentaleiI get that, but if you are hitting your laptop hard enough and long enough to throttle, you’ll probably want to be on wall power anyway.

[@Spentalei]

@@stonep11 What? No? Macbooks are literally designed to work for extensive periods from the wall even when going full blast. Not that full blast is particularly high here, but I'd consider it an identifying feature of a Macbook. Strongly disagree with you here.

[@scarletspidernz]

They could also build it into the power program where if the cpu/gpu is going over 60%+ (doing a intensive task) then it switches on, like modern gpus and psu's have a 0rpm mode, that would then mean most of the time the battery usage will be the same as it is currently in macbooks but kicks in when doing intensive workloads

[@maulerrw]

I feel the biggest thing this video proved was that apples cooling solution was actually perfectly adequate for the intended use case of a MacBook Air - short bursts of high-performance, but overall light duty work. The fact is took 20 minutes of a synthetic load to bring out like a 10% difference in benchmarks? It could absolutely benefit from this cooling technology, but it also wasn’t a mind blowing difference either. Maybe with better integration, we would see a greater difference, as to be fair. This was a fairly DIY hacks job and still prove the point.

[@thecomputerguy777]

That’s exactly what I was thinking. MBA’s are meant for people who do basic stuff, or short bursts of heavy stuff. If you need anything more, then you need a MBP, or to just deal with the throttling.

[@Okiranger]

Anyone else having quality issues? I'm locked out of quality settings on this video only. Feels like 2009 watching videos on 360p...

[@ebon_scar519]

Same wtf

[@HAL_NOVEMILA]

14:39 "No moving parts guys!" ...Meanwhile the manufacturer: "Inside the AirJet are tiny membranes that vibrate at an ultrasonic frequency"

[@Demoralized88]

It's literally the exact same as a Speaker or Diaphragm pump, and absolutely has moving parts. Especially with Piezo and ultrasonic frequencies, it's a terribly inefficient way to move air but the design and operation is literally identical to a Tweeter or similar. Just more fake tech.

[@ALonesomeStreet]

Alex repping Edison Motors, would LOVE a crossover episode with them.

[@karnpandharipande]

I remember watching Frore's presentation during CES this year. Good to see that their products are finally coming out to the mainstream, and hopefully solid state cooling becomes to new norm!

[@Antervis]

I wouldn't exactly call "DYI guide to mutilated macbook" a "mainstream".

[@karnpandharipande]

That wasn't my point. I was merely talking about the release of their products.@@Antervis

[@semahj]

@@karnpandharipande They didn't release it though

[@karnpandharipande]

@@semahj ZBOX pico PI430AJ with AirJet?

[@Blanksmithy123]

I feel like this video ironically proved apple right about many of their excuses. It really is a game of millimeters inside their Airs.

[@georgeindestructible]

3:34 we know these CPUs don't take that much power but there is absolutely no way they wont saturate that one sooner or later.

[@andyvitz]

I don't see why you couldn't have added those another way just by making a new bottom cover for a for the computer and adding them in there so it just makes a little tiny bit thicker like you pointed out

[@TheBrokenEclipse]

Man this tech is so cool, I really hope it gets into the next wave of laptops

[@GhostReaper2043]

dont hold your breath i highly doubt it

[@happybuggy1582]

Doubt.

[@HehehexDD]

not going to happen anytime soon. the issue is fan companies are monopolizing the air cooling sector. they'd all go outta business if they let this tech into laptops/pcs. its going to take some time.

[@cdanisor]

did you see the power cable it is pulling 45W … it won’t be useful any time soon

[@HehehexDD]

@@Bramble20322 Did you comment before you watched the video? 15f cooler than regular fans AND kept the laptop from throttling; improving CPU performance by 26%. Keep in mind there is so much more room for improvement since the case wasn't designed for airjets to begin with. Yes, it does consume more power but that's to be expected if you want a cooler/ more efficient laptop. Yes, it does cost more but that's because its still in its beginning stages. If this were to be mass produced then it'd be significantly cheaper. Besides, people pay hundreds if not thousands of dollars for a slight performance increase. This will be no different.

[@tipoomaster]

People have made gains and even bridged much of the gap between an M2 Macbook Air and an M2 Macbook Pro just by using a thermal sheet, bridging the tiny heat block to the bottom chassis, exchanging a warmer bottom for using it as extra heatsink. That had significant results for less throttling. It looks like they added a fair amount of copper heatsink there. I'm not doubting that the airflow adds to the performance, but an important comparison would have also been passive copper heatsinks with no airjet too. That said, I hope Apple is looking closely at these and integrates them if they can improve their products, but I don't want the Air to move air, I want it for the Pro for as much better and smaller than fans it can be.

[@Metamine0]

Yeah, the Air just really needs a thermal sheet. This airjet stuff could go a long way to making it possible for the MacBook Pros to become thinner and lighter, or could let Apple stuff even more performance out of their chips

[@SianaGearz]

Apple is for sure not looking to make their lower end products better, as that would cannibalise their higher end products.

[@techinrl9869]

Can’t do that. There is a legal limit for how hot the bottom can be. MaxTech did just what you suggested and the bottom became hotter than the law would have permitted.

[@SianaGearz]

@@techinrl9869 There actually isn't a legal limit, but there are several recommendations that converge on not exceeding 48°C, and there are high temperatures which require a warning label or can come with workspace restrictions. That being said if you were Apple and intended to optimise performance while observing this 48°C threshold, you would still install thermal pads board to case, and then adjust the board throttle threshold down until you meet this spec. Because evicting heat is always better than not evicting heat.

[@techinrl9869]

@@AlexBarbu The easiest handicap on the Air is having a base M-series chip while the Pros get better SoC’s like the Pro and Max chips. People buy the base M3 MBP because they want the nice screen and ports, not because it has a fan. Apple doesn't have to limit thermals in order to differentiate the products. Apple sees having no fan as a competitive advantage because they put a high emphasis on quiet computing, low power usage and therefore long battery life, and light weight. That’s why people buy the Air more than any other Mac.

[@retribution7210]

Instead of sacrificing keyboard,magsafe why not get rid of bottom cover,3d print new one with adjustments you need ,slap it on to macbook and have cooling and all the features as well

[@Acerdmen]

Would this cooling system be greatly affected by dust? It seems that those intake filter areas could easily be covered in dust in a few months time

[@lechprotean]

you could just blow compressed air in reverse every few months...

[@tommil7574]

I'm actually happy that it do not have moving air for cooling. Less things to wrong without dust. Pro is for the people who do renders etc.

[@TheDarksideFNothing]

One of the coolest things about the air jets is since they have such high static pressure they can draw air easily through ridiculously fine filters. Effectively dust free air cooling. They covered this in the original video showcasing the product. It's worth a watch.

[@ZackCrain]

Would loooove to see these somehow adapted into the Asus Rog Ally because mine gets quite hot but has extra space above the battery area

[@Kasmiur]

Surprised there isn't a market for replacement bottom covers of macbooks that would allow a little better airflow or bigger heat sink. Actually for any laptop, would be nice to get new bottom cover that allows space for mods, extra components and such.

[@Amphibax]

I'd love the idea but most likely the market isn't big enough for something like that especially for Mac Books most people just want a laptop that just works and they don't need to think about ever again. Maybe the Framework is the closest thing you could get today.

[@drkastenbrot]

Laptops are too short lived for a proper market to develop around a single model. One notable exception are of course framework laptops.

[@Kasmiur]

@Amphibax maybe with further 3d printing advances it'll be a thing. A larger or open bottom to allow for more cooling when docked at a desk and another plate for mobility. Oh well

[@thekwoka4707]

Because the market for Macbook Air and that kind of enthusiast build is a market of 0.

[@sgxsaint3130]

I always thought apple removed the fans in the macbook air after they released their own chips is because both the Air and Pro are essentially the same. The only key difference being that the pro has a fan and doesnt thermal throttle as quickly...

[@kcgunesq]

I want to see Alex and Linus try to build an NH-D15 sized cooler from these devices. Like 30-50 of them just stacked on top of each other in several columns. Ridiculous? Sure. Would we all watch that? You bet.

[@Parmigiano1]

I like how they present the video as a tutorial like anybody is going to actually do this.

[@PsychicOracle]

Because presenting the benchmarks in ~5 minutes doesn’t allow for 3 ad breaks

[@sharpless]

@@PsychicOracle rather because just presenting the benchmarks in 5 minutes wouldn't have made a good video

[@PauleBertt]

I love the air exactly because of the fact that it has no vents For me as software developer it never throttles to a point where i would miss performance i actually never noticed any performance loss at all the only downside is that the current one has only 24GB of RAM even when you max out everything :/

[@shivamsood2043]

I guess you never ran Android Studio on it 😂

[@michaelschalk4718]

The static pressure is so high that you don’t even need vents, it’s able to suck air through the gaps in the chassis.

[@alejandroooow]

@@shivamsood2043 I've had several IntelliJ projects open at the same time and zero heat. It handled them like a champ.

[@PauleBertt]

not android studio but intellijs IDEA + ios + android simulators @@shivamsood2043

[@obj_obj]

me when apple charges $200 for $20 of memory

[@shApYT]

Finally, presenting the iSuck! What is their power consumption and how much does the bigger pro version cool and consume power? How much more battery could you increase with the space savings? Also do another video where you replace the fans and put the bigger ones directly on the die on the macbook pro.

[@BeCurieUs]

It depends on how much has changed from their previous version, but the older ones were rated at something like 5W of heat disipation for 1W for the module itself. That is similar in scale to existing fans. They had a "pro" version which was effectively 2 of them for 10W of heat dissipation for 1.4ishW.

[@hishnash]

1.75W each so that would be an extra 5W power draw... Total system power (screen + SOC etc) under heavy load is close to 25W so this is a large increase in power draw.

[@BeCurieUs]

@@hishnash I don't know the scaling properties of the cooling chip, but in theory it would only need to turn on when things are really cooking, so would only potentially really take a bite to battery performance when in max power draw mode anyway.

[@BeCurieUs]

@@hishnash Also, from their website AirJet Mini removes 5.25 Watts of heat at a silent 21 dBA noise level, while only consuming a maximum of 1 Watt of power. so a bit of an overestimate on the power draw, but for such a total low power SOC, your conclusion is totally the same :D

[@hishnash]

They have mutable models the units used in this test were the larger units that each pull 1.75W@@BeCurieUs

[@Sethbacca]

So happy to see this stuff finally getting demoed.

[@crschoen123]

While solid state cooling may seem like a no-brainer, there is a MAJOR problem with these. This type of cooler produces ozone which damages things like plastic and rubber. Long term use of this cooling solution would likely end up causing early component failure.

[@Respectable_Username]

I'm so glad y'all are doing a video actually testing out this product in a real-ish world scenario. Have been fascinated by it since you first showed it off at one of the expos!

[@Evangelion543]

The Frore jet cooler is an amazing innovation, especially laptops alike.

[@haukewalden2840]

It would have been nice if you also made a comparison of the noise emmision between the two MBPro and the modified version - I suppose it should be way quieter, but - what noise level das the MBP reach? Oh, and if this really works - maybe give Framework a call?! ;-)

[@alexatkin]

Using stock settings they're quiet, but what he missed here is you can modify the fan control to where it becomes loud but cools a whole lot better than default. That may also widen the performance gap.

[@774used]

I think there is a flaw in the experiment. You did more than just add 3 piezo fans. You also added a better heatsink. I think you should have included a 4th laptop in the test, one that had the same exact mods (including the gap) but without the piezo fans. If there is a difference between the two modded laptops, it would better prove that the piezo fans are making a difference.

[@2nd-place]

You guys got it flipped. I’ve closely followed Apple’s every move for the past 20 years. This uses more power, and it decreases the performance delta between the MBA and the MBP. Apple doesn’t want either of these things. Where everyone goes wrong is thinking that Apple competes with their competition. At Apple, they mostly compete with themselves and how they market each product to slot it into a category. The MBA is for users who don’t give a crap about performance, but want all day battery. These users never see sustained loads. When someone wants performance, Apple upsells them to the MBP. What I see Apple doing is putting a beefier version of this in the MBP. I have the 14” M3 Max 16/40 with 64GB unified memory. The fans can get pretty loud under sustained load. Reading forums, this is the biggest complaint I’ve seen in the community. That and the 14” performance under load falls behind 16” model over time and the 14” battery isn’t as long-lasting. If they put this in the MBP, they might be able to do it for less power and in less internal volume than fans. I would need to see the numbers, but that could be a big win. Especially for the 14” model, which could get a larger heat sink to compensate and maybe even a few hundred more mAh of battery capacity. For the 16” model, they are at max capacity for airline regulations on battery but could potentially make the device slightly thinner or lighter, which is great for a 16” device. And making both silent for professionals would be a huge win. One question remains: Can this tech be scaled up for a larger system with higher TDP without hitting the battery harder than a fan? If not, then I don’t see this happening until this companies redesigns the product to be more efficient. Also, you know what other Apple devices I could see this being used in? Vision Pro and iPad Pro. They might be able to cool a Vision Pro with M3 or M4 Pro using this. I doubt it will stay on standard M-series forever, it will at least graduate to the M Pro-series in the coming years while the M-series drops down to the Vision Air or whatever. BTW the Vision Pro is getting the M3, Apple just couldn’t announce it yet. It’s gonna be a surprise.

[@FabiVoltair]

the differenc ecould have been larger if you would have stressed the GPU as well. I know this from my M2, but generally, this is why many are still fine with its capabilities... 5% reduction in performance despite passive cooling is just impressive.

[@Doyle69]

When I saw these coolers in the works a while back, I knew they would be a game changer in cooling community. Soon as I saw Apple producing computers without fans, instantly thought of this, so glad to see a video on it done.

[@nnoas971]

Also, if I'm remembering correctly, they said it was more efficient in terms of energy consumption. Which could allow the use of larger batteries in other devices where much of the space is used to cool them.

[@jatoxo]

what kind of device has battery heating issues LOL

[@nnoas971]

@@jatoxoliterally all the devices, and also, that was not the point I wanted to make. What I wanted to say is that we could take advantage of the space to put larger batteries since we would not have to use space on conventional fans inside a device (like laptops or portable consoles).

[@alexatkin]

@@nnoas971 Fans don't take up that much space, and if you make the battery bigger, you make the device heavier. Plus plenty of laptops already have the legal maximum battery capacity you are allowed to take on a plane, which means they can't actually add any more capacity.

[@nnoas971]

@@alexatkin Why is it so difficult to understand that I am talking about the future? Of course, today's fan system does not take up much space since it has been optimized for many years. This is an emerging technology, and its use and modifications to optimize it have not yet occurred. And as for the batteries, referring to the fact that I'm talking about the future, those restrictions are for Li-ion batteries. Nowadays, there is solid battery technology that is safer than Li-ion batteries and should not have the same restrictions, but the bad thing is that at the moment, they are kinda difficult to manufacture for industrial purposes, much less commercial ones.

[@piotrd.4850]

@@alexatkin 100Wh so most laptops withLARGE battery packs claim 97Wh. Apple is around HALF that value.

[@Greg1096]

I love that alex is wearing an Edison motors hat!! Those guys are awesome!

[@destro2245]

So the pro version is just a better airflow version of the regular one

[@vivekvs1992]

Frankly I'd be more excited to see this in regular laptops too.. Especially like a replacement of that third fan in the rog strix scar 2023 or in one of the x15 Alienware.. Or an ally

[@BocchiSensei]

I remember finding out solid state cooling a few months ago on this channel, it was a regret that i bought a laptop recently knowing that solid state cooling would be likely adopt way sooner than i thought, and mostly because of the snapdragon x elite laptop chips.

[@alexatkin]

I'm not convinced it will. They even openly state they have air filters, what happens when they clog up which is going to happen a whole lot quicker than a fan?

[@JasonZais]

The lack of airflow is one reason I went with the Air vs the 13” ‘Pro’ so it won’t accumulate dust and need cleaning over time. Should note I leave heavy workloads for the big computers at home with a 3900x, and 5800x3d

[@WarriorsPhoto]

Apple will be making this available for future PRO models. Thanks Linus.

[@MC-emmcee]

I do not see the point of these if you have to destroy the MacBook Air to install them. A better solution is not buy an MacBook Air isn the first place if it has cooling issues.

[@Mono_Maniac]

I was so excited to try this. Even as he kept going about the drawbacks. but when he hit the keyboard not working part. my dreams were crushed Edit: he started cutting the ribbon cables. This is becoming increasingly hard to watch

[@alexb0nd549]

Linus Tech Tips did Minus Tech Specs

[@richfiles]

Yeah... Mods aren't supposed to nerf half your I/O, _including your keyboard, sound, primary charging, and ability to power the machine on manually..._ This was actually painful to watch. For a piddly little 400 point loss, the passive cooling solution isn't doing as bad as it could, and if you need peak performance, get the friggin' Pro... I was looking at getting a Mac Mini myself, and when I realized it wouldn't meet my monitor needs, I instead got a pre-owed Mac Studio, which offered me far greater features than even a new upgraded Mac Mini would, and I still had some time left on the Applecare, so not like my used purchase was entirely without warranty. Buy to your needs. Doesn't even need to be brand new. Don't get the thing you know throttles under high loads and then complain that it doesn't perform like the Pro model. I say all this, _being_ the type of person that mods things all the time. I've fixed my own phones, and even installed an additional heatpipe into my last phone... Mods can be useful. Nothing broke on my old phone. It wasn't just a _net_ positive gain... It was a _purely positive_ gain. I don't even know if this Macbook Air mod can even be called net positive... So many negatives detract from any benefit....

[@clebbington]

They already did a video that is a much better thermal mod - just connect the heat spreader to the bottom case with a thermal pad. Gives a much larger thermal mass for passive cooling and doesn't remove any features

[@vladstr100]

​@@richfilesIt's a proof of concept and not meant to be done by anyone

[@RedEtome]

I feel like you needed one more tests with a macbook with all the modifications you did except the airjets to confirm it was due to the airjets causing the performance boost

[@happydaydreamer1]

I'm actually more than ever impressed over how Apple manage to get the performance they do out of a chip that does NOT have any cooling at all. Air almost keeps up with the Pro with fans which is no less than mind blowing. Well done Apple!

[@Klayperson]

apple silicon is amazing. too bad it's apple

[@paulbrooks4395]

Mmm, not worth the battery time loss to run the coolers. Airs are target light and burst workloads, not production work. I would trade that small performance difference for battery usage in an Air.

[@Skeppyberry]

yes, the 6 speaker sound system is only available on the 15 inch MacBook Air. High fidelity sound system comes on the pros, this includes a higher wattage amp and tweeters that fire out of the grills on the laptop and fire the woofers out of the fan intakes on the bottom

[@sidewinder15599]

I'd love to see this compared with using one of those aluminum laptop stand wedges with case fans attached to it to see the difference.

[@mayank_singh_0969]

Quick question... If the intakes are 400 microns thick ( extremely small) and if they get clogged by dust wouldn't it be extra difficult to clean them off? Also because they r so small wouldn't it be ever easier for them to get clogged with dust in the first place??

[@MathewPanicker1010]

Good point

[@timonix2]

I guess it would depend on the path the air takes. The static pressure is so high such that if dust makes it in, it will be pushed all the way through to the other side. The dust that is too large to make it in would get stuck on the outside and can be wiped away. But that's a best case scenario. You can absolutely design something which will clog up within hours

[@jasonls221]

From what I've heard it just doesn't clog, from the no moving parts to the high static pressure dust shouldn't settle and get stuck

[@ZexMaxwell]

I think in a different video that LTT did with these people. they said that it will never clog due to fluid dynamic magic. its also not hard to reverse the flow to blow the dust out.

[@Karavusk]

With so much pressure they probably don't care all that much about dust and draw in air anyway.

[@leviharris413]

Why cant i change video quality?

[@Tex_Arcana]

Would love to see a follow up video in 6 months - 1 year to see if these modifications cause any long term problems

[@christhorney]

"No moving parts" yeah except for the little flap of metal thats moving at insaneo speeds to move air, because you know metal fatuige isnt a thing at all, these things convert electrical energy into mechanical energy. A piezo fan uses this property to drive a cantilevered beam at resonances creating a fan element. that sounds to me like a moving part?

[@Rafael-kx6qu]

Finally, this pieces of technology ar getting the attention they deserve

[@LambdaMiscellaneous]

@OFFICERJIMMYUTTPhey, tell your creator to get a father.

[@brandongreywitt]

Thank you Frore and LTT. PLEASE do a SFF PC build using this tech!

[@BeCurieUs]

@@bradhaines3142 Indeed, I am totally hoping this tech scales. If they can scale it by a factor of 10, you really do start to get into the fan replacement zone. And if high quality fan systems costing upwards of 50-120 bucks, even if this costs a bunch, it won't only need to be in that regime.

[@brandongreywitt]

@@bradhaines3142 100% just commenting so they do it as soon as possible haha

[@stephensanders1876]

I'm curious to see if they would have been able to add some vertical spacers in the chassis so they can fit the Frore jets on top of the chip, and then perhaps used a 3D printed or CNC'd lip to fill in the extra space between the edge and base of the device, so that everything still works in the damn device :')

[@mariovidmar7]

It is possible to improve the cooling system of a Mac by incorporating air jets with a heat sink vapor chamber, graphene sheet mesh, and liquid metal instead of using a lid with a thermal compound. These air jets would run all the way from one edge to the other and could be connected to the battery with a ribbon cable and a controller on the Mac's system-on-chip and it wouldn't need to change ting to much .

[@Pircla]

Can’t wait to see this technology improve and go on laptops ! Mine make so much noise !

[@ThomasFort]

Would love to see this tech used in 1slot gpus.

[@SianaGearz]

I don't find it promising for this use case. I mean 1slot GPU can easily be built with current fan/heatsink tech to expel well past 100W (a viable target for mainstream class performance) and not even make it too annoying, and you could further improve the efficiency of VRM circuits but there's cost to it that the companies don't feel confident enough in paying. This maybe eventually they get bigger units that could ever reach tat sort of performance but it's likely to take decades and see their already mediocre efficiency tank. Not to say that this isn't an exciting tech, it's just the wrong niche.

[@stevey500]

Neat experimentation. Although, the fanless "air" does do very, very well and it really is only certain super heavy CPU dependent tasks that can thermal throttle the thing. I played all of the quite-graphic-intensive game Soma on my base line m1 air and it performed beautifully. Sure, the laptop ACTUALLY did warm up a bit compared to the cold metal nature it usually is in every other situation, but, it ran that game amazingly without throttling/slowing its performance. The only task I have found that will throttle thing thing is batch script image stacking/aligning for super large panoramas in photoshop raw. Tasks like this are still done with decent speed, though and with little desire to need any better speed to upgrade to a Pro with active cooling.

[@TheBuildTeam]

Let's be real and not call Soma graphic-intensive.

[@claudiobizama5603]

I think the thermal throttling happens on the M2 models more than the M1 ones

[@killingtimeitself]

while this is true if im going to be spending thousands of dollars on hardware i cant even maintain myself, let alone the other thousands of dollars apple wants for things like ram and storage upgrades, you better at least design it such that i can get my moneys worth out of the cpu without it disintegrating due to thermals. I'm spending money on the whole silicon, i want to be able to USE the whole silicon. Not to mention running in hot environments, this sort of set up is highly dependent on a colder environment.

[@flashlightning6742]

Yeah the lack of any fans is kind of the point, and what’s so impressive. I get that the point of the video is just to show this off though, and Linus/the writers probably understand all that. It’s a cool concept nonetheless, and probably useful for those who bought a MacBook Air and want some extra cooling. Seems like something that would be great to install and use when needed, and otherwise just use the passive cooling. Would be awesome and be pretty on brand for Apple to implement something like this in one of their devices though.

[@stevey500]

Why not? It's a beautiful game. It IS graphic intensive, a rather efficient and beautiful engine from a rather small game dev company.@@TheBuildTeam

[@robwhitmore3040]

Awesome tech. Potentially game changing. But I worry about how quickly those intake filters will clog with dust

[@Jimbaloidatron]

Beat me to it! :-)

[@Blacktronics]

it has 10-20 times the static pressure of a typical axial fan, it doesn't really care about dust on the filters.

[@alexatkin]

@@Blacktronics Of course it does, if it was able to overcome a blockage of the filters, dust would get inside breaking it. This technology IMO is dead in the water, Macbooks are already dying from dust breaking the screen cables. People don't use laptops in dust free environments.

[@Blacktronics]

​@@alexatkin Piezeoelectric pumps are nothing novel, we've been doing a lot of microfluidic related R&D where I work for well over a decade now. The whole thought process behind "if it's able to overcome the blockage, it would also pull the dust through" is very flawed, what gets through and what doesn't really only depends on the space between fibers. Either the particle fits through or it doesn't. Particulates do not pack into an airtight seal, think of the filter as a jar of marbles or a box full of entangled wires. Particles smaller than the spaces between the filter material can get caught by sticking to the fibers, but theres is no guarantee they won't make it through eventually. Particles larger will simply get lodged. The smaller the particle is, the further it can penetrate into the material before getting wedged or stuck, however, the next particle getting wedged adjacent will certainly not produce a cohesive bond to it and be airtight, you can still pull fluid past it. As particulate builds up on the filter, it begins increasing its resistance to the airflow, or typically we say that the pressure drop across the filter increases. With every pump you basically have a pressure budget, so every duct, filter or other The filters they are using here are likely nanofiber, which characteristically don't really clog, the pressure drop does increase initially but eventually hits a plateau. And this, as you might guess by now, is why the high static pressure these things can make is so beneficial, your total pressure budget is huge.

[@FelanLP]

I think 49°C of surface temperature is relatively unacceptable. At around 40-45° eggwhite proteins (don't know how they are called in english, sry) start to break down (which is why hot summers near 40°, even is it's just a couple of days at max, are do dangerous) and heat sticks, which are meant to cure fresh bee stings and so on, heat up to around 50° because their poisen is made out of eggwhite proteins too.

[@Immortus27]

3D printed bottom part of case that would fit this cooler would me more useful than tearing apart all insides for no reason

[@broccoloodle]

This is what we need from a tech channel. Great job LTT team

[@broccoloodle]

@@DK.dk11 agree, but I believe many viewers do not seek originality. for originality mattets, they need to provide detailed procedure, report and the work needs to be peer-reviewed on top journals/conferences

[@r08zy]

That little thing is so cute and produces a lot of hot air. The airjets are pretty cool too 😂

[@fiffy6572]

this + amd cpu/apu will bring the future of thin light and powerful laptops, cant wait and also hope framework will use this in future as well

[@lucasrem]

fiffy6572 AMD and Nvidia failed, alienware Arc book now ? Emulating the DX x86 is faster now, not fast enough for FPS online, i know. why shooters noobs on apple ?

[@sneilert]

I am missing some battery statistics for this. I wonder how much more battery this drains, even though it's obviously not optimized or production-ready, so to speak. Battery life plays a significant role in choosing between an Air and a Pro model.

[@sermerlin1]

I didn't skip on seasonic sponsorship because seasonic is just that awesome with their product. 10/10.

[@Apathy474]

I remember seeing this thing back at CES or whatever when you made a video on it. Thought it was super cool and had good potential for gaming laptops and stuff. Wonder if the company is publicly traded

[@davidgoodnow269]

Us techie types need to create our own venture capital fund so that we can get in on things like this, before I.P.O.!

[@xenon9887]

You should ask them on camera if they're capable of supplying them at the volumes that would be required for a Apple product. Im sure the answer will be yes.

[@doctahp123]

This is something that would be awesome for handheld consoles! Imagine this on the steam deck or next gen switch!

[@robertt9342]

Seems like just a better passive heat sink might be sufficient

[@32krod]

Gotta hit up Rossman for the board views next time you need a power source on a Mac

[@Alobster1]

They should have just probed all of the inductors till they found the main power rail. I don't understand how they fried something unless they slipped up and shorted a power rail to ground with the battery plugged in. An inductor would have been a nice big pad to solder to also.

[@BaghaShams]

The vast majority of people buying and using a MacBook Air are not doing any task that gets it to the point of throttling, so I think Apple is justified in their design.

[@dr.chimpanz.1324]

​@@shammyhthey know what makes them money. This is a bad design. There was no reason to use these expensive parts if you can't even benefit from them. It's just bad design.

[@BaghaShams]

@@dr.chimpanz.1324 It not bad design. Every part of a device doesn't have to run at absolute peak performance. Throughout the history of electronics, components have been implemented in designs without the need to use them at 100%. The MacBook Air performs at the spec that Apple and most of its buyers expect it to.

[@Mr20Gogo]

@@shammyh *trillion :P

[@davide4725]

Source?

[@Ouzzel]

I was finally debating a Mac as I'm starting a CS degree since it sounds like some things require it. Ended up just going with a framework though since the price difference was so large I couldn't justify it for things that seem like I can work around.

[@bobbob-gi1yp]

How is it working for you I’ve been using a 2015 MacBook Pro that’s kinda old asf I was thinking frame work but Idk Ryzen 7 or intel 13th gen

[@flashlightning6742]

Aren’t frameworks in the same price range as a base model macbook air?

[@Vulcannyx]

Definitely ryzen for the better igpu though there are only 2 tb4 ports available at the back

[@lucasrem]

CS 1.6 on apple, why not, if all are M.2 it works ! emulating it all ! on 5 watt !

[@vinylSummer]

Nothing CS related requires a MacBook 💀

[@Switzinator]

I love the Edison Motors hat!

[@bigun89]

13:51 - Small correction on the graphic, 4 hundredths of a millimeter isn't 0.4mm, it's 0.04mm. That said, 400 microns is 4 TENTHS of a millimeter. So they misspoke, the graphic is actually correct.

[@CMK-BigFoot-1420]

Too bad they couldn't just of just made, a custom bottom piece to the Shell, that could ever so slightly increase just enough room for everything, maybe start with a 3D printed version, and if everything fits get it machined

[@Jeff-t6t]

If you are going to achieve excellence in big things, you develop the habit in little matters. Excellence is not an exception, it is a prevailing attitude.

[@hongluzhang7771]

i am already imagining cooling something like ultra 5 which packs real power in really slim bodies like macbook 2015 or hp 2016 that kind of elegant designs.

[@overyonderjustapiece]

Just an FYI folks, Dyson has made a floor fan that uses this technology for a LONG time. They are EXPENSIVE as hell, but they work amazing!

[@ferdinandbardamu3945]

Camera manufacturers should look into this ASAP

[@dastard12]

So glad to see this technology continue to get traction, truly the dopest tech for small electronics in development