Aptera's Drivetrain Revealed!

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Aptera's Drivetrain Revealed!

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Күн бұрын

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@DirkWrightxyz Ай бұрын

No, they are NOT going to have two of those motors! Damn. It's just one motor driving both front wheels through a reduction drive and then a differential. I used to work in this technology.

@DirkWrightxyz Ай бұрын

An even better solution is to use two motors, one for each wheel, but inboard, with gear reduction for each one. Then you can have active steering assist and traction control electronically.

@TKevinBlanc Ай бұрын

One motor. There's an axle shaft fitting at each end of that differential.

@josiahpaez4601 Ай бұрын

@@TKevinBlanc If that is the motor they go with. Remember, all we know at this point is the current drivetrain manufacturer. Everything else is speculation. That being said, I do think it is likely that it will be a single motor with differential, which will be disappointing, but understandable.

@artsmith103 Ай бұрын

@@josiahpaez4601I expect Aptera is so over budget, that cheaper 1 motor is almost certain. This video raises hope to 2 motors....so another disappointment on the horizon....

@VolkerHett Ай бұрын

I had the Opel/Vauxhall Corsa-e and the 100KW version of the engine is pretty good, even with a 1500kg car,

@a5-30-31cts Ай бұрын

Correct. Looking closely at the picture you can make out the opposite side axle coupling that you see on the right side of the differential housing. If they go with this EMR4, there will be one motor that will be more than a match in power/torque versus even the combined hp/torque of the first Elaphe in wheel twin motors of the Beta test mule (i.e. no more than 5 second 0-60 times). Also with the Aptera's forward weight bias, a 2WD/FWD Aptera might be quite adept in snow/off-road (without the 3rd rear motor). I hope for two things: a discount due to lack of AWD, and that the EMR4 system allow for a clutch (to allow freewheeling - especially since the EMR4 specifies permanent magnets).

@artsmith103 Ай бұрын

@@a5-30-31cts I expect Aptera FWD will be plenty for people that Think they need AWD. The 3rd wheel track will be bad for people that Know they need AWD.

@DemaGeek Ай бұрын

First glimpses into the drivetrain changes, thank you Steve. Really looking forward to Aptera's July update and the facts!

@DemaGeek Ай бұрын

@@JoeBManco Yes, there are no shortage of questions, are there?!

@mitchbarber4748 Ай бұрын

@@DemaGeek We never get facts from Aptera, just vague projections and rosy promises. The honeycomb body is dead. Skin cooling is dead. Hub motors (and awd, torque vectoring, etc) are dead. The vehicle is heavier, less efficient and less capable, but they keep touting numbers to the press like 1000 mile range and 40 miles per day from solar that were all projected from the original design of the vehicle. They have yet to prove any of their claims. It’s very likely the company folds before they produce a single customer vehicle.

@theguru143 Ай бұрын

I don't like it, but I'm willing to accept the change. What I WON'T accept is the LE changing to just front wheel drive only. If that is the case, I will cancel my reservation and wait until they do offer it. This makes me quite sad as I was very much looking forward to what they said this vehicle would be for years now

@glennzajic7318 Ай бұрын

Understandable, but don't cancel, just delay delivery until they can provide what you ordered.

@MikeSuding- Ай бұрын

My guess is 1 motor in the front (not 2)

@Running__Rabbit Ай бұрын

Definitely one motor, there is a flange on each side of the final drive unit.

@AverageJoe928 Ай бұрын

One benefit of a single motor is that the differential can send up to the full amount of power to either wheel. Having two separate motors removes the need for a differential but limits the output power to each wheel to 50% of the vehicle's total power output.

@thisisme379 Ай бұрын

I agree. It's going to be one drive.

@tims8603 Ай бұрын

It looks like the motors that Steve showed only have one output shaft. How would they power 2 wheels with one shaft? A transfer case? That seems like a lot of dead weight and mechanical losses.

@Running__Rabbit Ай бұрын

@@tims8603 if you look up the EMR4 motor you can find photos of it that show the other side

@pstoppani Ай бұрын

The drivetrain has not be revealed, only the supplier has been revealed. Everything else is 100% speculation.

@TKevinBlanc Ай бұрын

@@pstoppani Given that Aptera has said that the driveline is finished, and that it's a motor that's been tested for "millions of miles," it's better than speculation. It's got to be a standard offering.

@speedturtle_andre Ай бұрын

@@TKevinBlanc The basic design of the EMR3 is the basis of the EMR4, i.e. it has already been tested hundreds of thousands of times on the road in the vehicles presented by Steve and was only extended by the permanent magnet-free rotor during further development. That was the big milestone. According to the statement, it was a further development and not a new development, so the statement is already correct with "millions of miles".

@TKevinBlanc Ай бұрын

@@speedturtle_andre Sure. I was trying to convey the idea that it's not really "100% speculation" to say that it's one or the other of those more-or-less standard offerings. .

@jeffanderson9093 Ай бұрын

The drive unit has two output hubs. You can see the top edge of the second on the opposite side. So the Aptera will only have one drive unit in the front. The rear may still have a hub motor.

@mickelkobeck7376 Ай бұрын

It's called deductive reasoning. LOL

@Soothsayer210 Ай бұрын

Thx. for the updates on the Drivetrain. I think I will wait for Aptera's briefing as well because, I wanted Hub Motors and that is one of the MAIN reason why I reserved Aptera.

@shinyy187 Ай бұрын

Just curious, why are hub motors one of your main reasons for buying an Aptera? I would’ve liked to have them too but I don’t get all the “I won’t buy one without hub motors or awd” comments

@BartCunningham Ай бұрын

@@shinyy187 Driving in snowy NE Ohio, AWD will definitely be a benefit if not a necessity.

@lucianbakerii7562 Ай бұрын

This will be a one motor FWD solution. Aptera will need it to be in a 120 to 150 kW range. This is a much simpler and thus reliable solution for power distribution, cooling, and system integration. I imagine that the extra chassis work done recently in Italy was validating suspension dynamics with this powertrain. This keeps power and cooling lines shorter and contained in the body. I would have preferred the revolutionary, but this could be an improvement in vehicle efficiency, reliability, and dynamics.

@VolkerHett Ай бұрын

I could easily spin the wheels with the 100KW version of the EMR motor in a 1500kg Corsa-e and it had 205/45 tires on 17" rims. 7.9 seconds 0 to 62 without roll out and 5 of those seconds the traction control was working hard!

@jeffanderson9093 Ай бұрын

I think it's better to be reliable rather than revolutionary.

@nicklockard Ай бұрын

That power range would absurdly overpower such a light, low drag vehicle. I'd specify no more than 60 whp, and even that is overkill if economy is your goal. It's be find with a 45 hp motor.

@lucianbakerii7562 Ай бұрын

@nicklockard I was expecting an Aptera launch edition with 45kW motors on all 3 wheels. Aptera may lose many pre- orders if the performance is largely degraded. In 2019, expected weight was 775 kg. Then it climbed to 820 kg. Now expected weight is around 900 kg. I hope Aptera can achieve calibration of the power flow to enable 16 km per kWhr or 0-100 km/hrs in 4.5 seconds or less depending on driver demand. Motor efficiency is very different from engine efficency.

@robertwakeman1679 Ай бұрын

I believe this company can provide power and traction control for all three wheels. Don’t care how fast it is 0 to 60 does really matter but it must drive as good as it looks. Only possible with all wheel control.

@gildardo Ай бұрын

Proven reliable drivetrain, let's go.

@ericpotter7954 Ай бұрын

Good points about Elaphe losing Lordstown and Lightyear, therefore losing the capital to build up manufacturing for their hub motors and probably being unable to meet Aptera's timeline. If the Aptera only needs one hub motor for the rear wheel, then that's 1/3 the demand Elaphe needs to fulfill and may be able to meet that. We'll see what they say at the end of the month. I also agree with many others here, there's probably one, central, motor for both front wheels. Having over 100hp and 1200 ft-lbs of torque for each wheel is overkill and absolutely ridiculous, not to mention the excess weight.

@e-economy- Ай бұрын

Elaphe is doing fine. Wrong speculation.

@MistSoalar Ай бұрын

@@e-economy- Do they even have manufacturing capacity? Their partners/portfolio page is under Testing Center category, and only talks about testing and validations.

@e-economy- Ай бұрын

@@MistSoalar What many people miss is that companies in the automotive sector (as well as in others) cannot publicly talk about every development and partnership they have been or are currently working with. What's publicly known is that Elaphe developed an inverter together / for McLaren Powertrains, one of the finest manufacturer in the world. They would not select Elaphe if they could not offer added value. By what I could see walking through their offices: yes, they are well prepared for production.

@johnmalcom9159 Ай бұрын

@@e-economy- I would say that losing Lords Town, LightYear, Sono, and Aptera at this point is NOT doing fine.

@e-economy- Ай бұрын

@@johnmalcom9159 rest assured, they do. Been there recently and talked with them. Loosing projects always has some business impact. The question how much impact it has is basically answered by great risk management before and during the project. They are in business for 20+ years and have customers all around the world. So, no worries here.

@davepawlik2362 Ай бұрын

I for one would feel betrayed investing in an AWD / IWM vehicle then offered a FWD / conventional CV joint axeled dumbed down alternative. Bait and switch at its worst.

@artsmith103 Ай бұрын

Investing or Donating?

@eugeneflorida1408 Ай бұрын

I am at 506 before Aptera stop showing us the Leaderboard. The new motor is what they had to do to get the first Apters out. Which is the right move. You can always defer your spot for a different model whenever it comes out. I don't want to wait any long!! I have thrown out all spec on the Aptera and waiting for the PI to come out. Then we will have the real specifications!!! 😊

@jeffanderson9093 Ай бұрын

@eugeneflorida1408 You can't be stuck in a continuous development cycle. At some time, you have to push forward with what you know works. Otherwise, you may repeat what the previous owners did.

@wesman9274 Ай бұрын

Great find as always. I'm sure Aptera is not far behind the greatest internet sleuth, with their official update.

@nomadic_brink Ай бұрын

Frankly, as a long time supporter, I'm a little bummed about not getting hub motors in my Launch Edition...I think hub motors are a revolutionary solution for vehicle drive trains. But this doesn't dampen my confidence overall in any way, and in fact it makes me even more secure that they're taking the appropriate steps to ensure that Aptera remains a going concern so the incredible innovation will continue. I have 6 reservations anyways, so I know I'm lined up to enjoy the best Aptera has to offer at each iteration. 🤓

@ronfarnsworth7074 Ай бұрын

@@nomadic_brink That's the spirit!

@DirkWrightxyz Ай бұрын

Hub motors are speed limited, from what I understand, and they put a lot of weight exactly where you don't want it: in the wheel.

@nutzeeer Ай бұрын

i think its better, as it avoids unsprung weight. should be efficient.

@DirkWrightxyz Ай бұрын

@@nutzeeer Less unsprung weight, the better. I'm not a fan of hub motors for that reason, at least for street cars. They are fine for industrial machines like fork lifts.

@instantchow Ай бұрын

Honestly for performance having less unsprung weight, centralized mass, and a proven hardware, just makes sense. Front-wheel drive uprights with a CV axle bearing carrier setup is solved these days, let's go!!!

@tigerstallion Ай бұрын

its hardly solved. electronic traction control is shit. CVs are a top maintenance item. these systems are often a scrape point. and this particular drivetrain is not yet proven in the Aptera platform. What is proven is the fact they misrepresented their design readiness and still have a lot of design and testing to do before they are ready for manufacturing

@GullWingInnMoclips Ай бұрын

@@tigerstallion Oh, wahhh! Doom!

@wesman9274 Ай бұрын

I've replaced many CVs on Subaru's can almost do it in my sleep.

@NeilBlanchard Ай бұрын

I like FWD with a single motor for the reasons you mention. HOWEVER - the big downside is the spinning half shafts out in the air stream. These will be a fairly significant hit to the Cd of the vehicle.

@NeilBlanchard Ай бұрын

@@wesman9274 the additional friction of the CV joint and the universal joint on each half shaft is a negative vs the hub motor.

@mikehill1613 Ай бұрын

Sorry to lose Elaphe at this juncture. They put sooo much effort, money and time into developing this for Aptera and others. I hope they survive.

@a5-30-31cts Ай бұрын

@mikehill1613 - ditto

@aftonline Ай бұрын

We may not be losing Elaphe altogether. Aptera will still need them to supply the rear motor if they are going to offer AWD on the LE. Chris hinted at this in the livestream video.

@artsmith103 Ай бұрын

I suspect Elaphe dumped Aptera

@Okurka. Ай бұрын

It's a startup so the chance of surviving are slim.

@NeilBlanchard Ай бұрын

It looks like it has a reduction gear AND a differential - so a single motor for both front wheels. The spinning half shafts are going to be raising the Cd of the vehicle, by a fair bit. Spinning round shafts have an "outsized" effect on the Cd. *Hopefully* they can enclose them in a stationary aero cover for the two half shafts? This would minimize the hit to the Cd.

@toastylee1234 Ай бұрын

the biggest question this raises for me is whether AWD is still on the table at all, as that was one of the core specs they were offering as part of the LE vehicle

@merrickhurst4150 Ай бұрын

They've been pretty clear that all-wheel drive isn't possible with this drivetrain, but it will be coming in the future when in wheel motors are back on the shop floor

@toastylee1234 Ай бұрын

@@merrickhurst4150 "They've been pretty clear", unless i've missed something, they haven't even confirmed what the drive-train IS, let alone what it isnt. we're just making assumptions based on the name of the supplier, which is all we can do until they give us the full detail, hopefully in this months update.

@merrickhurst4150 Ай бұрын

@@toastylee1234They literally said it in a video, so you did miss it.

@user-xj5xp6qz5g Ай бұрын

@@merrickhurst4150 where and when were they clear about that? I dont remember them saying anything.

@Fairburne69 Ай бұрын

@@toastylee1234I'm paraphrasing but Chris Anthony said something to the effect that they were not using in-wheel drive motors at launch and that they NEEDED them for the rear wheel. Unless he misspoke I wouldn't expect AWD. They haven't specifically said no AWD for the launch edition hopefully that question will be answered with the next update. I understand your frustration. I still want an Aptera but I won't buy one until the AWD system is back. Who knows maybe by then, assuming all goes well, they will have announced a 4 wheel vehicle with back seats. Still my overall preference. Then maybe I can own two Aptera's.

@lk313 Ай бұрын

Thanks for the update. I am wiling to settle for single motor & just FWD. Doesn't change the fact that this is still the most efficient vehicle design. Maybe we will get even more range with just FWD. Perhaps lower final delivery price on the vehicle.

@Okurka. Ай бұрын

Profile picture checks out.

@shamblendavidson8166 Ай бұрын

If it is more efficient and lighter than Hub Motors I am all for it. I don't want awd

@barnabasseadog7660 Ай бұрын

This is from the February Update at 4:29. Steve Fambro: "Lets address vehicle design changes. Were doing everything we can to get our solar EV into production as quickly and safely as possible. What this means for reservation holders and investors is that you will see some changes up ahead. We want you to know that changes to our vehicle design are taken very seriously and only made if they require significantly less capital including research, development, and tooling cost. A production plan that requires less capital, reduces risk for our shareholders, and allows Aptera to get to market more quickly. Once updated supply agreements are inked, we will share more information." I'm ok with it, so long as I get my Accelerator Launch Edition sometime next year.

@e-economy- Ай бұрын

@@stix2you I am also optimistic about funding. But: right now we have another APPROACH to funding. Money is not in yet.

@glike2 Ай бұрын

Hub motors are still very undeveloped technology compared to other options. Freegen is an amazing new geared hub motor technology in development for bicycles that I will probably also be very good for automotive and motorcycle hub motor development. Aptera Owners Club should definitely make a video about it because it really makes sense considering the e-bike videos you already made and its potential to be used in a future Aptera.

@fotoguru222 Ай бұрын

🤔I very much doubt an e-bike motor company makes a 50 KW in-wheel automobile wheel motor.

@peterdrury5627 Ай бұрын

One of the most attractive aspects of the hub motors was the simplicity of cooling them. Moving the power train inboard will require a whole new set of measures to cool them--likely taking part of the air stream inboard, creating 'momentum drag', the cost of slowing the cooling air down that enters the vehicle. This translates into an increased drag coefficient, reduced range and smaller benefits from solar charging. On the positive side, it will improve the ride quality--less unsprung weight.

@ronfarnsworth7074 Ай бұрын

@@peterdrury5627 I'm thinking the motor power and cooling lines will be much shorter and lighter, mostly eliminated. The mounting, routing, and flexing of power and cooling lines etc is gone too. Think this will be a give and take deal in the end with performance taking biggest hit. But for me simplicity matters too.

@matthewhuszarik4173 Ай бұрын

They had already done this with abandoning skin cooling for a radiator.

@matthewhuszarik4173 Ай бұрын

It appears we are starting to see the huge shakeout in the BEV industry. I just hope Aptera survives it. If you look at the ICEV industry at the beginning of the 20th century there were hundreds of manufacturers who jumped into the industry and the vast majority either failed or were boughten out by the few that remained.

@artboymoy Ай бұрын

Great digging Steve. If they are going with two motors, I don't see why they couldn't do torque vectoring, since that seems more like a program thing to me... Has the latest model drivetrain been used in millions of vehicles? That's what Chris said in the last video. They could possibly still be using the 3 drivetrain, because maybe they're cheap enough and proven to be reliable and Aptera doesn't need a powerful drivetrain. The goal of the Aptera is to make a very efficient streamlined vehicle. All of that is moot if it never comes out. So it's understandable if you can't get all that you want in the package, some things will need to be changed so you can release something that proves a lot of the core concepts and doesn't diminish from the enjoyment. As a former game developer, that's what all this feels like. There have been games I've worked on that had grand ideas and concepts but if they start to fall behind in devellopment, there's a shift and changes that occure that may not be what we set out to do but still something that people enjoy and that we were proud of. I'm sure I will still get a kick out of the Aptera when I first sit in it and will still be happy to own.

@Fairburne69 Ай бұрын

I love your comparison. Aptera reminds me of the early days of Larian Studios. Before Divinity: Original Sin II. I also agree with your overall assessment. The only thing stopping me from buying a LE is the lack of AWD. Unless I'm wrong about that.

@artboymoy Ай бұрын

@@Fairburne69 I'll still be getting the LE even with the lack of AWD. It'll be a little disappointing not having it but there's so much more that we're getting out of this first version to pass up.

@EleanorPeterson Ай бұрын

This Comment's not strictly relevant, but might be of interest to peeps wondering about how having only rear-wheel-drive affects the handling of a three-wheeled vehicle. I'm based in the UK and, in my amateur motorsport years, had the opportunity to drive a couple of Morgan 3-wheelers at various times on both open public roads (doing tarmac rallies), and racing circuits (doing auto-tests and track sprints). These little Morgans are petrol powered 2-seaters with only the rear wheel being driven. They're lightweight, nimble, and enormous fun. If you're a bit of a techno-geek (and I am), I urge you to investigate the engineering challenges created by having a single driven rear wheel on a tricycle layout (rather than two driven front wheels). It's fascinating. There's an art to balancing power delivery and traction; the driven wheel mustn't be too big; if its tyre's footprint is overlarge it can make for messy and unpredictable handling (choppy steering), so the rear tyre is made deliberately quite narrow; maximum size and too much grip actually makes handling worse as speeds increase. With a three-wheeler, you're NOT building a drag-racing bike that demands maximum traction. Nobody in Britain cares about ¼-mile times or Merkin muscle-car tyre-smoking performance from a standing start. Getting from zero to sixty as fast as possible is an irrelevance and of interest only to 10-year old boys with 'issues'. What we DO care about is handling and driveability, and the rear-wheel-only-driven Morgan ticks all the right boxes. The aim is to balance the suspension dynamics as if you were tuning a powerful sports motorcycle for 'safe' handling. The Morgan peeps are very good at that kind of thing, so their 3-wheelers are an absolute hoot to drive. Note: their trikes have conventional petrol engines and old-school manual transmissions. No driver aids, no traction control. Having a clutch pedal to manage the power delivery definitely simplifies matters; it's easy to feel when you're pushing too hard and asking too much, so a Morgan's handling is always lively but benign. Swapping to a rear-wheel-only electric motor would involve redesigning pretty much everything; I suppose it'd mean having computer software doing the job of a sensitive left foot but, as I know virtually nothing about electric motor tech, torque, traction and transmissions, so I'll say no more.

@chrisbarrett2512 Ай бұрын

Still a great deal of unknowns. The Launch Edition was billed as 3-wheel drive, and all those on the leaderboard, have a reason to say what? I am hopeful that somehow an all-wheel drive version can still be sold as a Launch Edition, thus avoiding disappointment of those who invested almost $35 million dollars. My gut says the transparency is going to be questioned by the fans, not a good thing at this critical time while trying to raise more money. The convertible notes are going to be paying 12% on $60,000,000 for 2 years. Before fees that is at least 7.2 million dollars interest, not a small amount. I hope Steve and Chris announce the details concerning the powertrain soon as this silence is not a good thing. Efficiency and 0-60 time are extremely important to the fans, so waiting for validation becomes even more important, however that might mean a longer wait than most want to endure. Sensing impatience from the fans is simple, read the comment section on the recent postings and the base is getting more restless. I lack automotive knowledge. I do however understand investors want to be able to understand what it is they are investing in. Changes that are this big, need a great deal of explanation. Since day one, I had believed in the concept of in-wheel-motors. It took me a while to understand what torque vectoring meant. After gaining a cursory understanding, I was completely on board, believing this was a better way. When YASA got bought out by Mercedes Benz, I concluded that in-wheel-motors had come of age. Otherwise, Daimler would not have done the deal. I became an Accelerator because I wanted the Launch Edition, sooner rather than later. I am still very much an Aptera fan, and want the product, but I am not very happy with this change, and wish to be convinced that this is the best product they can make. Robust, and long lasting, with little or no glitches. Time to tell the fans why this change was needed. I remain wanting my Aptera but have a few reservations than I did not have before this change. If it turns out that this is better, fine, but say so, tell me it is has more efficiencies, and less chance of failure. Power loss was one of the reasons that in-wheel-motors were considered, less power loss without drive shafts, and universal joints. Hope the engine compartment is big enough to hold the motor(s), and CPC won't have to rebuild the front end.

@rebodyking7584 Ай бұрын

The issue is that the supply chain reliability and serviceability is an issue for a upcoming manufacturer. It’s a lot to contend with while also trying to scale a new company. Bicycles and such aren’t under the types of loads that on road vehicles are, and this makes hub motors an issue. Unless a major oem puts them into serial production, these smaller hub motorsp companies can’t meet the demands either. I’ve studied this for nearly 20 years now, if you believe me or not, doing feasibility studies for several would be upstarts over the years. And EVERYONE of them stared with hub motors but changed prior to production for good reason. There just isn’t enough support for them.

@ronfarnsworth7074 Ай бұрын

@@rebodyking7584 I did a tech startup and 100% agree.

@gr8dvd Ай бұрын

@@rebodyking7584 "There just isn’t enough SUPPORT for them [hub motors].” In the marketplace or structurally (point of failure)?

@cdmalcolm2524 Ай бұрын

Think of it as a better stability, easier to repair and service. Sometimes keeping it simple is best. Hub motors vibrates too much over time is not good for any vehicle. I’m glad they changed it. All that needs to be looked at are the new specs on the change and what they plan to say about the AWD as promised.

@brucebender5917 Ай бұрын

Glad to see the move. While I love Apteras focus on efficiency, every now and then it makes sense to focus on cost/price efficiency. Yes the added weight will slightly reduce MPKwh but it seems that an in-wheel motor manufacturer with sufficient scale might not yet exist. This is a move from the laboratory to the manufacturing floor and bodes well for actual scale production of the Aptera.

@gr8dvd Ай бұрын

"This is a move from the laboratory to the manufacturing floor…" 👍 True but more accurately, albeit less succinct, from lab to limited production of units with unknown reliability/durability …to manufacturing.

@apterachallenge Ай бұрын

@@gr8dvd The first generation Renault Zoe used a Vitesco powertrain. That car was the best selling European EV for 2 years in a row. Pretty well proven I would say.

@gr8dvd Ай бұрын

@@apterachallenge Thx, likely basis for Aptera’s statement… proven technology, millions sold (ie, "manufacturing floor" in OP). 2b clear, both lab & limited production (with unknown reliability/durability) was referring to Elaphe and giving them more credit than being simply a "lab" project.

@cjwilson54 Ай бұрын

@@apterachallenge Nothing to do with the drive train, but such a shame the Zoë had terrible crashworthiness.

@DeSilver215 Ай бұрын

Good Work Steve! Fingers crossed it's one higher powered motor with active regen braking to help with torque vectoring.

@DeSilver215 Ай бұрын

i.e., regenerative braking based torque vectoring.

@user-fq5qg9xj1y Ай бұрын

Looking forward to seeing how the motor will fit in the Aptera and how it will effect crash safety🤔

@Okurka. Ай бұрын

They don't need to pass the crash safety tests.

@EnmandsBand1 Ай бұрын

please dont go for a massive horsepower engine! It's less efficient and will cost everyone extra insurance. My 2017 Ioniq had 120 HP and it was perfect (and it is still the most efficient EV on the market!!)

@Mennenth Ай бұрын

Okay. Some concerns assuaged. Looking good! Hope to hear more from them soon

@rkbarker Ай бұрын

Apterasolar channel of Germany, interviewed the CEO of Elaphe a couple of we ago. They stated that they were going to edit the video and put it out, but it has never been released. My understanding is that Elaphe was not happy with Aptera. Very curious why they never posted the video. Elaphe is not planning on having a high production facility until 2029.

@scottwilson2859 Ай бұрын

So, does that mean there's going to be an exposed half-axle that you can see rotating as you drive? This all seems to mean a major redesign of the drive train.

@johntrotter8678 Ай бұрын

Nice discovery. Like others, I think one motor will be sufficient and simpler. However, I hope Aptera doesn't go so low on overall power as to make the car sluggish. GM has done that on some of their "sports cars" in the past. AWD would have been best and individually-controllable front motors would have been second most interesting. One motor, like Chinese econoboxes, can become uninteresting.

@GaryGreenway Ай бұрын

I was disappointed when they downgraded the expected power (by around 18%) of the Elaphe motors a year or two back. Aptera spun it as "improvements in efficiency". I wonder if Elaphe is having problems making sufficient power in that form factor motor. Aptera can get that power back with this new motor family. This change to an inboard motor doesn't bother me a bit. I'm focused on the end result, not the tech that makes it.

@e-economy- Ай бұрын

Power is not an issue in IWM at all. I have seen a single IWM producing 1600 Nm torque and accordingly very high kW. The experimental / development vehicle I was allowed to drive had several thousand (!) Nm torque. The question is more if a battery can deliver the required amount of power and if this is required for a particular type of vehicle as everything in the vehicle - cables, other electronics, frame, etc. - would need to be constructed to handle such force. That pretty much goes directly against efficiency.

@a5-30-31cts Ай бұрын

@@e-economy- 👍

@koenraad4618 Ай бұрын

The inboard motors are more reliable in comparison with hub motors, and it also reduces the unsprung weight (more comfy ride). On the other hand the overall Aptera efficiency will be slightly lower, however, that efficiency will still be much higher than the overall efficiency of all other production ready EVs. Torque vectoring is possible if each wheel has its own motor. IMHO, the only EV with hub motors and proven reliability is the Emily GT (Saab NEVS). It has Protean hub motors, and Protean has done a lot of research to develop a very robust hub motor that can cope with all road and weather conditions without breaking down. Saab/Protean solved the 'unsprung weight' problem as well, so the Emily GT rides comfortable, as any other car (mind blowing next gen EV).

@a5-30-31cts Ай бұрын

@koenraad4618 - and there's at least one more factor that's related to the unsprung weight factor that is also learned from recent road bicycle technology: roads are rarely glassy smooth. When a heavy 100 pound wheel goes over a 1/2" bump, the forward energy to lift the 100lb wheel over the bump is drawn from the energy from the mass and velocity of the vehicle (in this case the lightweight 2,200lb Aptera traveling at say 50 mph). This impact will slow the Aptera. But if the same wheel is only 35 lbs, the energy required (and the slow-down of the Aptera upon impact with the bump) will be reduced by 65%). This is partly why high-end road bikers are now switching from small width & air volume, high-pressure 700c x 23c 120-140PSI tires and narrow 19mm wide rims, and are now switching over to fatter lower pressure and larger air volume 700c x 28c-30c 85-95 PSI tires and wider 22mm rims. The softer fatter tire with larger air volume allows the bike to maintain its present directional velocity by having the tire carcass deflect to absorb road irregularities instead of forcing the entire bike to bounce upwards (thus losing forward motion energy).

@koenraad4618 Ай бұрын

@@a5-30-31cts Perhaps the inboard motors are better on bumpy roads

@danquicker1642 Ай бұрын

Thanks Steve, for the new investigation / speculation. As others have mentioned, only one EMR4 is needed to drive both front wheels. Hyundai may be using a 400V / 160kW version made in new Korea factory coming online now?

@charliebrockway166 Ай бұрын

I doubt they would go 2 motors. Evidently made in Germany. Hundai has a big contract $2 billion ish. Silicon carbide inverter - good efficiency. Simplest short term solution-all in one package-small dimensions. Permanent magnet design. Up to date but not cutting edge. Pretty big change in suspension design- I hope they knew this was coming so we don’t get a compromised setup. Interesting days ahead. I hope Aptera will share significant details on drivetrain/suspension design.

@bertrandp2977 Ай бұрын

They have an induction version (EESM).

@robertkirchner7981 Ай бұрын

Your pronunciation of Citroen is pretty good. "Vitesco" sounds like a subsidiary of a British grocery store. I have long wondered what was keeping Elaphe afloat up to now.

@LanderMaybe Ай бұрын

Looking through the Vitesco news, I note that: In 2022 Hyundai committed to $2B purchase of the EMR4 160kW version for class B/C vehicles. The diagram shows a FWD with 2 half axles. In Nov. 2023, they announced a new line in their Icheon, Korea facility to produce over 200,000 EMR4/year. In April 2023 they announced a magnet free rotor version of the motor that fits in the same EMR4 package.

@davroscaan1318 Ай бұрын

Good. I'm a big fan of keeping it simple and using real-world tested equipment.

@TheJesusFreeke Ай бұрын

This is excellent news! Thanks for digging into it for us!

@johnmalcom9159 Ай бұрын

Thanks for bringing this analysis to us so expeditiously! For me, a little too early to assess the new drivetrain as the whole drivetrain architecture is not released yet. Need to know the tradeoffs for selection of the design, performance expectations vs. the original in wheel motors, strengths and weaknesses. Impact on price and delivery schedule. Reliability. And important, impact on right to repair (Easier, harder ???) I think clear is that there will be no all wheel drive variant as long as this motor configuration is used in the Aptera. A disappointment to many that live in areas with bad weather. (Not me I live in FL) My bottom line; should have been revealed in some manner before the accelerator campaign, but OK technically with it if performance is comparable to in wheel motors and, as a secondary benefit, some cost/price reduction affect. If the net cost (Engineering, procurement, production, labor etc.) is more, then I rescind my endorsement.

@CharlesSpence-f6d Ай бұрын

Has anyone noted Continental's relation to DeepDrive? They have collaborated on a hub Wheel electric moter for evs. Continenetal provides the brakes system and DeepDrive does the motor. Perhaps this is what Aptera i going to use.

@Fairburne69 Ай бұрын

Edit: Is the EMR3 smaller and or lighter? The EMR3 could be used if it lowered their costs. A lot of times prior models are almost as good as the new one. If you can save 25% for example that's a big cost savings while only sacrificing a little. This is just my guess as to why they might use the older model. Just a guess.

@bertrandp2977 Ай бұрын

EMR3 is larger and heavier.

@e-economy- Ай бұрын

EMR4 compared to EMR3 is 5% more efficient and 25kg lighter and more cost efficient to produce. Vitesco say. I also initially thought the EMR3 platform would be cheaper to buy for Aptera Motors but having researched the above that might not hold true.

@Fairburne69 Ай бұрын

@@e-economy- Good news hopefully

@craigarnold1212 Ай бұрын

Good find Steve! One item of note is Panasonic is listed as the battery supplier for the 2170's. This is a power & reliability upgrade over EVE IMO, though every battery maker will say they have a better battery. Wonder if it will be made in US? Too bad this didn't come out before you interviewed Tim but does explain his grin when you asked about potential brands. Will wait to see if the motor you found is the item. It should save on some inverter cost for FWD and some overall weight. Along with cooling lines and power feeds and one less motor. Either range goes up with slight speed gain or horse power as the drive train looses efficiency? Maybe an offset of getting bi-directional charging capabilities would add some value to this design and hope that AWD via hub motors is still possible in the future. Your deep look at the two Chris's hinting at the change to FWD was augmented with Anthony stating they weren't giving up on hub motors entirely just yet. Convertible notes! From an investor standpoint this depends on the terms but gives the investor interest until they convert [and the details of when they may]. To me FWD limits the vehicle to 3 season driving other than local driving, single inverter means no vectored thrust and would require a limited slip differential for snow, ice, sand or mud. Often chains are required when it snows in the mountains if you do not have 4 wheel or AWD along with proper snow/ice tires. From European's with experience on that motor you site it does not have an LSD built in? If not, it would not be good going into the mountains in the winter or the few days of snow per year in the lowlands. With the AWD I was interest in taking it to the Oregon sand dunes to see how it would fair... it would be light enough that a few people could pick it up and move it easily if it got stuck. I estimate 4 max to do that from experience of backing my 65 mustang into a ditch with 5 passengers onboard. They picked it up and pushed it uphill until the rear wheels were on the road. How did we get 5 passengers in? Three in the back, one in the front passenger seat and smallest laying on the front seat backs. lol Also in college one particular guy who thought he was privileged parked his VW bug in front of his dorm blocking the road. So 6 of us picked it up and moved it two steps up to a landing to get it out of the way and nobody would help put it back until the dorm manager came out to deal with the issue. Just had this last thought; icing in the outboard fairings?

@michaelmay9958 Ай бұрын

Agree with all your points, and am hoping for an easy way to upgrade to a rear hub motor in the future. I live in the Sierra, and get enough snow every year that I really feel the need for AWD.

@extremerotary Ай бұрын

To echo many of the other comments here, I will likely cancel my reservation without AWD, and that's saying something being an accelerator investor. I live in PA and between thunderstorms and snow, AWD is a requirement for my next vehicle. Their website still shows a powertrain option of FWD/AWD. Obviously this could simply be awaiting an update following a FWD announcement, but I'm hopeful not. I'm optimistic that they can get 1 hub motor from Elaphe per vehicle instead of 3. To Steve's point, maybe one of the issues was manufacturing volume, so maybe they can produce 1 per vehicle and maintain the AWD. Fingers crossed...

@kenmcclow8963 Ай бұрын

It would probably be easier to push the reservation back until the rear motor is available, than to cancel and see them add it shortly after. While I like AWD, I have found that traction control and snow tires has made it not necessary. My older car is AWD, but my newer car is RWD and works fine in snow. I grew up with old RWD cars that could be terrible, and terribly fun in snow depending on whether you wanted to slide around or not

@GullWingInnMoclips Ай бұрын

Last I checked, front wheel drive vehicles with winter tires handle snow very well and thunderstorms don't really care what kind of drive your car has.

@bertrandp2977 Ай бұрын

Elaphe is not showing up on the slide of key suppliers. So it it unlikely LE will have an Elaphe hub motor on the rear wheel. However, hub motor is considered in the longer term. I hope they will make LE upgradable to add such rear hub motor.

@e-economy- Ай бұрын

The understanding that the LE vehicles will not have several features that were originally announced is the reason I was not investing during the accelerator program (although before) and not changing to an LE version. I will keep my reservation for sure but am happy that I (hopefully) will get an Aptera with IWM and heat pump as those make a huge difference in electrical efficiency.

@robertwakeman1679 Ай бұрын

All wheel drive three wheel traction control rear wheel regen all a must for me. I hoped that the engineers at Aptera realized this but maybe not.

@e-economy- Ай бұрын

Well, well, German technology again. The Aptera vehicle remains a highly European vehicle. Regarding the Vitesco EMR3 / 4 platform, it is a so-called E-AXLE which means there is one motor per axle. Not per wheel. Reason for using the "older" EMR3 platform - which is about 5% less efficient - might be cost. Cost of buying and cost of integration. ADDITION: as Vitesco state that the EMR4 platform is more cost-efficient to produce it might well be cheaper to buy. It basically comes down to purchasing negotiations. As this is one motor per axle, there naturally cannot be torque vectoring as this requires independent control of each single wheel. There were e-axles for hybrid systems with "kind of" torque vectoring even back in 2015 but they used clutches and have inherent loss that was back then compensated by the Internal Combustion Engine (see BMW i8 or Porsche 918 Spider), so you did not see the losses on the pure electrical range. Yet that concept did not make to mass market vehicles. And the clutch losses would clearly show in the range of electrical vehicles (BEV), especially in high efficiency ones like Aptera.

@Okurka. Ай бұрын

Quite ironic as it's not road legal in Europe.

@e-economy- Ай бұрын

@@Okurka. Stop BS'ing. You tried to spread this misinformation before. The question if a vehicle is road legal or not can only be answered if homologation has started. That has NOT started in the EU yet. So let's wait. There are a lot of changes on the way ...

@Okurka. Ай бұрын

@@e-economy- You're the one spreading misinformation; it's a class L5e vehicle that's too wide. It won't pass homologation the second they measure the width.

@e-economy- Ай бұрын

@@Okurka. let's go down to facts if you insist on it: what's the regulation you are talking about?

@Okurka. Ай бұрын

@@e-economy- What part of "class L5e" don't you understand?

@christopherbrand5360 Ай бұрын

Fantastic news. The engineering will be top tier and parts for repair will be available. I am immensely relieved and looking forward to getting my LE with this drivetrain

@macrumpton Ай бұрын

Unless they are going to mount the motors next to the wheels I don't see any advantage to having two motors. They might as well have a single motor and differential which would be cheaper, simpler and lighter than using 2 motors. Of course torque vectoring would not work with a single motor, but I am not sure how vital that is.

@keithjacobson4493 Ай бұрын

It seems that due to the light weight of the Aptera a single motor would be all that is necessary. And why not the older model motor, a startup company with proven technology is going to be more attractive to investors.

@MikeInTheWoods Ай бұрын

This basically is the nail in the coffin for the Launch Edition being AWD. I hope that's not the case, but I don't know how they're going to mount an axle motor to power the rear wheel. It just isn't happening. Kind of disappointing as I wanted the Aptera as an adventure vehicle

@ericstarmer7779 Ай бұрын

The whole Aptera concept is the antithesis of an off-road vehicle......

@MikeInTheWoods Ай бұрын

@@ericstarmer7779 Which is why I want to turn it into one

@MaxSUNAAptera Ай бұрын

When I heard the world 'Continental" I was looking around for John Wick and the Manager.

@glennzajic7318 Ай бұрын

Bet you a gold coin they are not the same company.

@MaxSUNAAptera Ай бұрын

@@JoeBManco You are not allowed to eat your continental breakfast using the high table.

@QuickshotGaming Ай бұрын

I’m fine with the motor change, the Aptera for me has always been about having the lowest cost to operate vehicle for my daily A to B drive.

@BongRipBing Ай бұрын

If Aptera is going for transaxles with cv joints, then I would like to see some love put into the cv joints to make them more reliable and to last more than 100k miles. Better materials, especially for the cv boot would help. Maybe figuring out better sealing techniques, and though highly unlikely, better geometry of the cv joint. At the minimum they need to do a big think on the cv boot. It'll be more exposed, possibly to sunlight.

@jlaufangyt Ай бұрын

If you look closely at the picture that you're displaying at minute 4 1/2 there are two axle connectors on that motor

@bob15479 Ай бұрын

This just makes sense. There is no way the small benefit to range from not having axles would be worth it at scale. this will be more reliable and serviceable than hub motors in my guess

@Mikey_Likes_It_Too Ай бұрын

With FWD only then i would assume the LE cost should drop below $35k, thoughts?

@johnmalcom9159 Ай бұрын

You are correct. But even so, that might not be the final price

@cjwilson54 Ай бұрын

@@JoeBManco For $39K I'll get a Tesla Mode 3.

@deanmcmanis9398 Ай бұрын

One motor would be cheaper, simpler, and lighter. Plus it would likely use less power than 2 motors. But without AWD or two motors the Aptera would have a harder time breaking that 4 second 0-60 time that helps justify the $35k price, and appeals to people who want a sports car AND super efficiency. I could see the later 250 mile model having a single motor (and 20kWh battery pack), but I hope that they use two smaller motors for the performance and wheels control that was promised in the AWD model (with 210HP).

@johnmalcom9159 Ай бұрын

Yep!

@josiahpaez4601 Ай бұрын

Hey Steve, just a thought, your title seems slightly inaccurate. Aptera's drivetrain has not yet been revealed, only the drivetrain manufacturer has been revealed. Not a big deal if you don't feel the need to change that, just wanted to point that out. Great video as always! Love your channel! 👍

@koenraad4618 Ай бұрын

This motor company also produces high-voltage electric motors that are smaller and lighter. High voltage is the trend in EV world. Aptera is a 12Volt EV (battery, main motor and smaller motors are all 12 Volt), because many car industry products are based on 12 Volt. So I don't expect Aptera will use a higher voltage motor in the near future, also indicated in Steve's interview with Tim. Higher voltage means many design changes.

@billbayer5526 Ай бұрын

Hub motors are an EXTREMELY difficult engineering challenge. Wonderful on paper and to dream about but, so far, impossible to make. No reason they wouldn't just use a single motor through a gearbox. That's what nearly every other EV uses.

@cjwilson54 Ай бұрын

But I don't want what most run of the mill EVs use.

@billbayer5526 Ай бұрын

@@cjwilson54 I understand that and agree! However, there have been and still are millions and millions of dollars being thrown into R&D of EV drivetrains. Hub motors solve a big problem of finding room for larger battery packs and every EV manufacturer would absolutely love to use them. BUT, there are a number of very difficult engineering obstacles. I'd say it's safe to say that if Tesla ain't doin' it, there's a very, very good reason!

@aftonline Ай бұрын

2x 80kw is a lot of power for a lightweight vehicle like Aptera. My Toyota Yaris has an 80kw engine, and that weighs slightly more than the Aptera. I went to the Vitesco website and apparently they developed the drivetrain for the first generation Renault Zoe. When I searched that vehicle, it only has a single 68kw synchronous motor. OK, that isn't going to get the Aptera from 0 to 60 in 5.5 seconds, but I suspect that they may go with a single motor of a higher output rather than the 2 motors. That would also weigh and cost less than putting 2 motors in there.

@barryjewett4037 Ай бұрын

I think we need to remember that it was stated that we would be excited about the new drive train, so I believe we don't yet have a clue to the "exciting" news.

@rbarlow Ай бұрын

I think it is worrying that this major design change is coming so late in the development process. In the early ‘70s, as a college student, I bought an aircraft kit for the BD-5. They kept making late changes to the design and drivetrain and ended up going bankrupt. This seems similar to me. As an investor and reservation holder I hope I am wrong.

@garykunz5305 Ай бұрын

Typically you would only have one motor in the front with a half shaft/axel out each side. I wonder how this is going to impact the shape of the vehicle? There doesn't seem to be enough room in the front of the Aptera as designed to house the motor and gearbox associated with this type of motor/gearbox drive train.

@Rich1Rodriguez Ай бұрын

CORRECTION; The company was recently spun off from Continental as a separate stock holder company (GmbH) Thanks for posting

@LanderMaybe Ай бұрын

Rich, I look forward to your analysis of the financial plan!

@Rich1Rodriguez Ай бұрын

@@LanderMaybe I may hold off of the details of the confidential business plan. But I will be updating my script to include the current convertible debt offering.

@LanderMaybe Ай бұрын

@@Rich1Rodriguez and soon will merge with Schaeffler…

@a5-30-31cts Ай бұрын

Thank you in advance Rich!!

@jasonwhitley8605 Ай бұрын

"probably less efficient" You lose energy in the gearbox and every extra point of physical contact, every joint. It IS less efficient than a hub. That being said, I'd rather them make a drivetrain change than go under and not build the first production.

@gbpg2016 Ай бұрын

Wow, almost 6 years in and they’re going to a different motor and a non hub motor. Sheesh

@e-economy- Ай бұрын

naaaaa, they've taken that decision more than a year ago. Didn't publish it though ....

@Okurka. Ай бұрын

@@e-economy- It didn't stop them setting up investment rounds.

@jflow5601 Ай бұрын

So the 40 mile range you get from solar is if you drive at 25 mph. At freeway speeds expect 20 mile range.

@danwat1234 Ай бұрын

Ugh, axles and differentials! Basically certain the differentials are open so I hope Aptera will develop software for the braking system to emulate locking differentials to enhance traction on slippery surfaces. Otherwise we will see one wheel spinning like a typical front wheel drive vehicle.

@stevenemert837 Ай бұрын

As the body design was intended to work with hub motors, where will they find enough room inside the body for these motors? Also, won't it pretty dramatically affect the machining of the inside of the front of the body? I have to admit I'm disappointed they are not going with the hub motors. It seems requiring CV joints and all that entails will reduce the mechanical efficiency.

@DaBinChe Ай бұрын

I'm glad there is no more hub motor. Hub motors are used in the lower end, high end uses in board motors. The driving dynamics will be way better with less weight at the wheels.

@ThomasMincarelli-fj8cu Ай бұрын

AWD is the only way I can get up my mountain home. I hope they can get in wheel hub motors worked out in a few years when my order # comes up!

@themick6586 Ай бұрын

It's possible that they could install a motor in the back, and then belt drive the rear wheel, similar to a can-am spider.

@brianrosenlof388 Ай бұрын

I agree. Had the same thought when Chris said that they needed hub motor for the real wheel. Don't know why they couldn't do that. But his statement makes me think that they didn't do that.

@instantchow Ай бұрын

@@themick6586 na belts eat up energy and there's no room. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a hub motor in the back soon enough.

@thewheelieguy Ай бұрын

Toothed belt drives are lightweight and can be very reliable, but they are far from silent. My ebike has such and it's the loudest component of the the thing together with the planetary reduction on the motor case

@gstellpflug Ай бұрын

I too expected a 3 wheel drive vehicle with hub motors. That is what I based my original reservation on. It is also why I invested in Aptera. As an investor, I don't think a two wheel drive version is a good thing. Questions; will the new powertrain add weight to the vehicle? If so, it will surely cut mileage distance and that is one of the biggest reasons that sold me on Aptera. I also wanted the longer distance version and now it looks like it is so far down the pike that it may never come to fruition. Don't pee on my leg and tell me it is raining! These new changes don't appear to add any value to the vehicle, and if anything some of the changes are going to be detractors. Will Aptera still be around next year? I hope so, I don't want to lose my initial investment! Please don't take Aptera down the wrong path!

@billsmith5960 Ай бұрын

This version is better as opposed to the hub motors. Same for the new cooling version. Aptera would never do this unless it was ore efficient. It's that people need to understand, Aptera is transparent and do what's the best for us.

@jameshwang4750 Ай бұрын

Only FWD for the LE edition?

@Fairburne69 Ай бұрын

I'm 95% sure based on things they have said. The 5% doubt I have is because they haven't explicitly said "no AWD". Just that they "need" an in wheel motor for the rear wheel.

@daviddunbar1084 Ай бұрын

@@Fairburne69 They don't necessarily need an in wheel motor for the rear wheel. Motorcycle manufacturers like BMW and Motoguzzi have done shaft drive on swing arm suspension rear wheels for decades.

@Fairburne69 Ай бұрын

@@daviddunbar1084 And how are they going to do that with the current design and shape of the vehicle with a battery pack in the way? Yes a vehicle can be designed that way but the Aptera wasn't. Why did Chris A. Say, they "need" an in-wheel motor for the rear wheel. He didn't say it would be nice to have. One can only assume that due to its unique shape and design that it's not possible without doing a complete redesign. BTW I hope I'm wrong but based on the available information I don't think I am.

@TheChoucrouteGarage Ай бұрын

If it's this motor, i'm not happy. The Stellantis platform is terrible in efficiency. The EMR4 is a complete powertrain with differential so the will be probably only one motor for the front axle.

@andrewmclean1239 Ай бұрын

I understood that there wasn't a 'bonnet'. You'd need one with a motor in the front.

@takenoshortcuts Ай бұрын

They sold 1000s AWD Launch Editions so the rear wheel question needs addressing.

@Fairburne69 Ай бұрын

95% sure they won't have AWD. They 100% need to make an official announcement about the AWD. They haven't sold any vehicles as far as I know. There is still a good chance they don't produce any vehicles if the money dries up. I for one won't buy an Aptera without AWD. But I'm also not in need of a car anytime soon. My Hybrid Elantra which is paid for only has 32800 miles on it and I drive about 8k per year. So hopefully with or without the AWD they have a successful launch. Then a few years later an AWD system is installed.

@ericstarmer7779 Ай бұрын

They haven't sold anything.......

@billsmith5960 Ай бұрын

No need for AWD. Too heavy and Aptera did this to even make it lighter and more efficient.

@Fairburne69 Ай бұрын

@@billsmith5960 There are definitely pros and cons to the changes. A typical AWD system would be too heavy. Personally I want an AWD. I will wait. I'm still hoping Aptera becomes the next big name in the automotive industry. I'm not feeling good about it. They will probably lose thousands of preorders.

@takenoshortcuts Ай бұрын

@@ericstarmer7779 duh.....

@wormfood868 Ай бұрын

I'm feeling pretty foolish for having defended Aptera in the past; it seems like features just keep getting cut. I expect we'll soon hear about the accompanying range cut, due to the less efficient motors, and then that the solar doesn't really produce as much power as they were claiming, then...? I really wanted to believe in Aptera, but now I'm expecting another six months of "We were going to do cool thing until it turned out to be too hard, so now we're doing the same thing everybody else is." before they announce that Aptera will just be a rebadged Chery.

@artsmith103 Ай бұрын

Aptera already backed off from 4 kWh/day solar to 3. I suspect the real number is closer to 2.1 kWh/day, 365 day avg for most of the country.

@scottspencer9784 Ай бұрын

Vitesco also makes drivetrains for electric motorcycles. Maybe AWD is not dead….