What are the challenges with solar on a vehicle?

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[@robfelts8076]

If you're like me, my vehicle sits in my work parking lot for 9 plus hours every day. It would be great to have an additional solar panel in a storage spot in the rear hatch.

[@njdevilku1340]

Drive the lightning featured a company that makes a fold up solar package (like 5 panels) that is meant to be put on top of a car and fold down over the roof, trunk and doors. I'm hoping I can buy that and stick it on the ground and use it with the aptera while camping (stick it inside while driving).

[@adamchan635]

i would like one to place over the windshield

[@njdevilku1340]

@@adamchan635 I agree. I usually park my car in the shade and leave my windows open (since I can't stand AC). Its going to be difficult for me to get used to parking in the sun with Aptera. I wish I could get rid of the panel on the dash as I want to leave the windows open. A panel that I could stick on top of the windshield is a good idea!

[@deanmcmanis9398]

Aptera mentioned that they would have a plug where you could plug in external solar panels, and the system could support 1500 watts. There are some solar roof kits that can be plugged in (for Tesla Model 3/Y) but they are very expensive. Also there are many low cost solar panels for RVs and boats that would make more sense. For me, the Aptera's onboard solar will likely completely refill my batteries by just sitting in the parking lot.

[@DeSilver215]

​@adamchan635 There are dash solar panels already, anything placed on windscreen would cover them too, but having said that a windscreen cover/solar panel, also keeps the car cabin cooler since it sits in the sun the whole day. The other thing would be good is, if you can plug into a solar panel set up at a spot that you regular park at.

[@lancedoyle5026]

Very common on solar panel driven battery chargers is to configure the chargers for Maximum Power Point Tracking (MPPT). Aptera apparently has 7 paths to charge the batteries as efficiently and quickly as possible.

[@tims8603]

Sheet metal screws don't need pre-drilled holes in CF, fiberglass or thin metal.

[@theresa337]

I took the dive at the 11th hour.

[@elertus]

Thanks Steve, Reed,Chris…. Hmm My home’s PV solar system have what the installer referred to a “ optimization system “ which doesn’t shut down production due to shadowing… optimizing production through changing solar exposure ( clouds and angle/ shadowing ) But they should know… as solar is “their thing for solar mobility!”

[@johnreeves7261]

Aptera's talk of "optimizing (solar) production" is quite over blown. String level high speed MPPT has been done for going on 40 years. Also, a leaf falling on a solar panel does NOT kill the entire panel. Solar panels typically have string level bypass diodes and/or are made with solar cells that have low "breakdown" voltage. Finally, many solar arrays that have panels on variously angled surfaces will typically have MPPT MicroInverters ON EACH panel.

[@romad357]

Steve, they couldn't pre-drill the holes until the wiring layout had been finalized. Self-tapping screws make the most sense, at least for the PI builds.

[@ccibinel]

It is on the inside behind a panel. As long as the wires have enough slack that it could be screwed in 1/4 inch offset if it strips it will not be a problem even for release. PI in general should be virtually identical to production not "just another prototype"

[@romad357]

@@ccibinel Perhaps they did not want to have too much slack in the wiring? There must have been a reason to not have the mounting points positioned in the panels when they were pressed at CPC.

[@scottgabbard662]

Since we don’t know the true shape of the molds, they could have made an area a little thicker for easy mounting. Of my worries, this is probably one of my lower ones. I’m more concerned about the BnC allowing for sweating in void over time and the chips just being sprayed and not encased and calling that good enough.

[@jflow5601]

So to be clear. My understanding is that Aptera solar provides 40 miles range at an average speed of 24 mph. If you drive an average of 60 mph you will get about 7 - 15 miles range from solar. The 1000 mile range also assumes an average speed of 24 mph. If you think that speed does not affect range, try driving in any EV on the highway. :)

[@ApteraOwnersClub]

where are you getting this from?

[@jflow5601]

@@ApteraOwnersClub reddit. Aptera Range vs. Speed

[@WilliamChapin]

No mod to the CF press molds need to be made. There is a post pressing process, where a CNC robot trims off all of the flashing. This same CNC process could/should predrill at least small locator holes for all fasteners. Then for PCBA's, self-tapping screws can be employed easily into the marked holes.

[@robinpettit7827]

I agree or they can add in the mold threaded inserts with minimal work, i.e., it is a subtractive process for the mold.

[@WilliamChapin]

@@robinpettit7827 They could add threaded inserts to mold, true. But 1) the molds are complete and validated. 2) threaded inserts add cost and purchased parts to track (there are already many threaded inserts in the mold for mountings that need metal to metal threading). 3) At some of the angles for threaded inserts, to get part release, one may need mold inserts, which would be uber-costly. And finally, 4) securing PCBA's in carbon resin does not require the accuracy and security of pre-threads. Self-threading fasteners would be fine. Because there already is an established CNC post-process to clean-up the flashing, it's a no-brainer add tap holes at that step.

[@robinpettit7827]

@@WilliamChapin I agree, just pointing out that it isn't as costly as as totally redoing the mold to also put in threaded inserts. I assume they will drill holes as part of the BinC part production process.

[@RayGannon]

I would expect the PCB mounting hole drilling can be done by same robots that trim the flash after pressing the part at CPC. And they may not be using screws to attach the boards. There are plenty of snap-in nylon PCB standoffs that are rated for use in high vibration environments. The PCB assembly group would press the standoffs into the board and the final assembly group would just have to line up the board with the holes and shove. Much quicker than using screws.

[@johnhayes3314]

When adding bosses, the mold is steel safe. As an example, if they decide where to place fastening locations, they machine a bore in the mold, and can even make those locations allow metal threaded inserts.

[@garywozniak7742]

Galvanic corrosion between carbon fiber and most metals can occur, particularly in the presence of aqueous solutions that contain salts, fertilizers, or acids. They must have some fastening system that avoids this. Aptera's outer panels are FG-SMC, fiberglass.

[@PandaKnight52]

The adhesive they used will be the barrier between the metal and carbon fibre

[@ronfarnsworth7074]

Self tapping screws, quick, cheap, easy

[@Okurka.]

Unreliable in a vibrating environment.

[@CharlesAnsman]

@@Okurka. exactly

[@tims8603]

Almost all vehicles use self tapping sheet metal screws.

[@ronfarnsworth7074]

A worthy consideration for sure, but they're common on ice vehicles of all types which have more vibration than electric. Do have to say I never had a cf smc press molded vehicle though. Just cf bicycles. I think the right screws will work, but maybe that shaker table they used for batt pack would be worth trying.

[@Okurka.]

@@ronfarnsworth7074 I've never seen a PCB held in place with self-tapping screws in an ICE car.

[@unclegeorge7845]

You're the guy I believe. Thanks for your good work.

[@DemaGeek]

As always, thank you Steve!

[@robinpettit7827]

BTW, Just wanted to say that I can live without in hub motors, but I really was looking forward to them and would be willing to have a 6 month delay to get them in.

[@robinpettit7827]

I believe the placement of the holes for the boards was determined with first BinC. Keep in mind adding screw holes or threaded inserts is likely straightforward. I am not overly concerned.

[@iansmith6728]

They did previously mention adhesive for mounting boards.

[@papa_woody]

The way it works with carbon fibre molds, the mold has divets in it for mold inserts. After, the material will conform around it. It looks like they didn't do it for this pi.

[@NoorElahi1776]

I'm not a sports fan, but rooting for Aptera really scratches and itch I didn't know I had. After 40 years of watching people go nuts over sportsball teams, I finally get it. Give me all the merch, man! Can't wait for the miniature, it's going to look awesome on my mantle!

[@Skylancer727]

They're probably just self tapping screws. Not the best for reusability, but way cheaper. I know people were upset when they learned the Steam Deck used self tapping screws.

[@matthewhuszarik4173]

Put them in a jig and drill all the holes at one time.

[@RomanChaar]

still waiting to see the new inboard motors and cooling system....

[@DeSilver215]

​@@JoeBManco, their solar panels technology is an asset that is already bringing in revenue I.e customers buying that technology. That revenue in turn allows for funds to complete production.

[@DeSilver215]

@@JoeBManco if you want exact numbers best to ask Aptera. If you are entitled to know the exact numbers they will unform you.

[@DeSilver215]

@@JoeBManco seems like you feel entitled to some sort of favours. But have you considered what facts you have brought to the discussion?

[@artsmith103]

​@@DeSilver215 In the crazy Aptera world of failed promises, it's even possible Aptera paid to put solar on those vehicles. Were you impressed?

[@DeSilver215]

@@JoeBManco , have a look at your first post in this thread, it is mostly statements based on opinions. Not a single question mark in that post. This is a fact.

[@Derpy1969]

I find aptera’s electronic controller strategy to be… subpar. The fact that they haven’t finished the wiring layout is telling.

[@GoClimbARockEh]

Validating the layout in the real world, with production parts, is a necessary step. You'd prefer they just skip it and guess?

[@ronfarnsworth7074]

What would you do different?

[@Kukaboora]

@@ronfarnsworth7074 There are total six or seven distributed control panels around the Aptera body. Each panel would have on the average 10 to fifteen connectors SMT type. That means someone has to push more than hundreds wire leads to the SMT. This process alone would take at least half an hour and very prone to errors since the wires are quite similar in sizes and colors. You should terminate wires in three or four connectors for each panel. It only takes a second to snap two mating connectors together.

[@ronfarnsworth7074]

@@Kukaboora But adding male and female connections into a connector body would be even more time consuming, add more parts and expense, and worst of all add an extra connection which has a higher failure rate than anything. Am I missing something in your description?