Gas stove fumes and broken public health discourse (PODCAST E40)

[@whitec21]

This episode really clarified a bizarre interaction I had at work today. I'm a bartender and a guest was adamant about buying a new gas stove. I talked about how I wanted to replace mine with induction, and this dude lost his mind and went off on me about how the current administration hates gas stoves and so he was absolutely buying one. I was ignorant of the current news cycle and was totally lost, so at least now I know what specific brand of crazy my regular is.

[@filmpjesman1]

Induction all the way, best decision I made when I bought my apartment. It's fast, not hot after you turn it off, and as Russia keeps the gas production low in Europe I'm saving money. So yeah, go for it!

[@churblefurbles]

What brand of useful are you? This issue is brought up because its more profitable to sell to europe now.

[@filmpjesman1]

@@churblefurbles well I bought it when I renovated the apartment before the war even remotely started, but that decision has turned out quite useful in hindsight. It's about futureproofing a house, we'll have to get off coal, gas and gasoline at some point, so being ready for that is just a smart investment now

[@malcolm_in_the_middle]

@@filmpjesman1 Russia doesn't keep the gas production low in Europe - Europe does that to itself.

[@knurles]

@@malcolm_in_the_middle .... Huh? European countries are well small and don't sit on much gas resources.... How are they controlling production?

[@Braedon2011.]

“Before you start spending money replacing your stove, think about spending money to replace your kids” is where I thought that sentence was headed 😂

[@cerberus50caldawg]

You know that's right!!! 😂

[@wooprime3482]

Why I replace my kids, NOT my stove.

[@NikkiBdraws]

Hey, stoves don't need to money for back to school supplies.

[@SK_1337]

some deglazing in a generous amount of white wine fixes most of them.

[@nathanlonghair]

Hey that’s a thought

[@jrussino]

I rarely comment on KZbin videos, and who knows if you read these, but just I have to chime in and say that this was a *great* one. I think this is one of the most important social issues of our time (not gas stoves, but the discourse around evidence, scientific consensus, and social change/public policy) and you did a masterful job of framing it. Keep up the good work!

[@andrewdishman335]

Interesting how gas stoves have been around for a hundred years but only now are they suggesting get rid of them. What more is known about gas stoves they didn’t know 50 years ago.

[@fordsfords]

@@andrewdishman335 There might be some technical/scientific knowledge gained, but a lot of it is that to measure the long-term effect of something, you have to let a long time go by. You can't do longitudinal studies until there's enough data to support one.

[@jb8935]

@@andrewdishman335 The science changed, bigot

[@aragusea]

@@andrewdishman335 aside from the stoves getting caught up in the broader decarbonization movement, I think you’re also seeing a ton of new research related to all causes of childhood asthma, because childhood asthma seems to be getting a lot worse, for reasons not fully understood.

[@andrewdishman335]

@@jb8935 You call someone a bigot because of difference of opinion. Seems you’re the bigot

[@MD-pg1fh]

A lil recommendation for folks stuck with a terrible oldschool electric stove (such as me): A little countertop induction plate costs like 60 bucks and gives you at least *one* powerful, responsive cooking spot, which goes like 80% of the way.

[@undeniablySomeGuy]

It’s so funny how much technology has advanced. A huge home appliance has been outmoded by something the size of a laptop

[@johnhpalmer6098]

@@undeniablySomeGuy Unfortuantely many of those induction burners are not full sized, at best are actually 8" in diameter so do not fully heat the pan across the bottom.

[@pXnTilde]

@@undeniablySomeGuy Technically, the oven is the huge part. The range can be as big or small as you want, it just happens that 4-5 rings fit nicely on an oven, and 4-5 is a good amount to have

[@KingBobXVI]

@@johnhpalmer6098 - depends on what you're trying to do with it. I highly recommend getting one of those countertop crepe makers, it's just a large non-stick induction surface that heats up really evenly and you can put stuff directly on it. Not going to help with anything that needs a pan, but we use it as a surface for Korean bbq and it's fantastic.

[@matejlieskovsky9625]

Fully agree on buying a portable induction plate. My friends and I bought two back when I lived in a dorm and now as a renter I happily move my little induction plate and compatible cookware with me. Also, induction plates can have some very fancy tech - mine can maintain a fixed temperature of the pot thanks to an IR sensor. I can now comfortably deepfry stuff in a regular pot, never exceed an oil's smoke point and slow-cook stuff while doing other things. And the thing is ridiculously easy to clean compared to any gas stove!

[@Zuginator]

"federal agents come into your home" this is WHY we still are on the British Imperial system instead of metric. My grandmother literally thought the government was going to come into her home and take her measuring cups. It was be funny if it wasn't sad.

[@HelloKitty-x4u6d]

But I'm sure she didn't see any problem with police busting down doors of those people.

[@davidsap]

I tried to put my finger on why I listen to your podcast over all the other podcasts I've tried (and failed) to get into in the past, and I think this week's episode really cemented why for me. You always go to pretty great lengths to establish your own biases and those of the people you talk about and present the science as neutrally as possible while being open to being wrong in the opinions you do share. With most media being mega hyperpolarized these days, it's a rare treat. Keep it up!

[@user-rn3rn6nl3h]

I agree with his biases as well

[@bannanachops]

He speaks and tries to learn in good faith. That's as good as it gets in podcast/KZbin land.

[@CobaltContrast]

I've always said this guy has a modicum of scientific neutrality when recommending his foods on discord.

[@racermario1881]

@@CobaltContrast he has a discord??

[@CobaltContrast]

@Racermario not that I know of. He gets brought up on vegan discords because every now and then he is considerate of other people's life styles.

[@djscolari8]

Adam, these pods are so profoundly good. The amount of detail you offer and your excellent writing make for such an enjoyable listen. Thank you

[@N1120A]

And they keep getting better.

[@RandomDudeOne]

His journalism experience is evident.

[@fordtimelord8673]

Yeah, this guys modus operandi is a pretty good way to go. Thanks a million for being such a reasonable and articulate human being.

[@KalebPeters99]

This was well put. I agree very much

[@TheFeralBachelor]

Everytime Adam leans back and covers his mouth, I hear "Chocolate Rain".... I pray for someone to dub that in.

[@ZacharySkaggs]

He moves his mouth away from the mic so he can breathe.

[@milesparris4045]

I scrolled down to comment this.

[@milesparris4045]

@@ZacharySkaggs I think Adam is burping.

[@TheFeralBachelor]

@@ZacharySkaggs Oh yea, same reason as the guy who recorded Chocolate Rain did. But I think I am going with the "burp" theory. Adam breaths a LOT during his podcasts and never moves.

[@RandomDudeOne]

@@ZacharySkaggs I imagine it's a habit he picked up in his old radio days.

[@freedomandguns3231]

"We all have to stop assuming the worst intentions of everyone else." OMFG THANK YOU. THAT is one of the biggest issues surrounding discourse in my opinion. Your statements were cathartic.

[@Gengh13]

When speaking about politicians decades of experience has taught me a different thing.

[@petrmaly9087]

Living in central Europe, being born in a totalitarian country without human rights, I must tell you that sentence is laughably naive, stupid and suicidal. It's what the Jewish people here said in the 30s, what self-employed people and business owners said in the 40s, what communists said in the 60s before the military invasion, what morons in the west say now.If you want to live, always assume the worst and prepare for it. The worst things always start with the smallest steps. Now it's stoves, than furnaces, than you and your children will be freezing in your house heated by electricity during a blackout and wondering where in a walking distance (gas cars banned) can you get a wood burning stove on a black market.

[@Gengh13]

@@petrmaly9087 I just want to tell you that I think your comment has been censored (too many trigger words for YT sensibilities), it appears in my notifications but not in the thread. And I agree.

[@petrmaly9087]

@@Gengh13 Well, thanks. That explains a lot. It happens all the time when having debates about recent history. I was talking with a German guy about the explusion of German nationals in the second half of 40s from Poland and Czechoslovakia, I couldn't find any of the comments.

[@Gengh13]

@@petrmaly9087 yeah, it happens to me all the time, it is really hard to have a productive conversation in this platform. Edit: has my thumbs up of your first comment been recorded? Because I don't know if the thumbs up works for censored comments.

[@jonS-42]

Great podcast Adam thank you for the information. I recently had a scare with natural gas. My wife had been complaining of smelling the gas in our cabinets (we have a stove top separate from our oven). One day , while I was home alone with my 2 and 3 year olds, I decided to really investigate the odor and got to poking around the lines. I barely bumped the flexible line and it cracked and developed a large audible leak that began filling the kitchen with gas. Better yet, the shut off in that area was not able to be turned by just my hand. I grabbed the kids and moved them into our attached garage and killed the power before I finally got a to a set of pliers that I closed the valve off with. Luckily the valve worked and after airing out the house for a few hours, it was crisis averted. Still it really shook me up. If my wife had been home the fire department would have had to be called.

[@ashkitt7719]

Despite owning a gas stove myself (mostly because it came with the rental and I don't have a choice) I get the appeal of induction. It's not the Bad Old Days of those electric coil cooktops. Of course, if I have a choice that's the question. (I don't.)

[@TheJohnreeves]

Man this is reason enough not to use gas. That's scary. I have gas for a furnace (it came with the house) but fortunately it didn't have a gas range. I'm looking forward to replacing the furnace when the time comes and totally disconnecting the gas from my house.

[@GameTimeWhy]

@@TheJohnreeves that's like saying that you are happy not having electricity because poorly wired houses catch on fire.

[@GameTimeWhy]

Good reminder to do general home maintenance.

[@Ardyrezv]

@@GameTimeWhy yup lmfao

[@jasourwnjl]

The ventilation issue is the low hanging fruit many failed to talk about. Too easy to go in our various corners and see things in black and white.

[@bcubed72]

Well, ventilation is the obvious solution that would prevent the government from using air quality as a pretext to cajole us away from fossil fuels to the grid (which, ironically enough, is mostly powered by fossil fuels.) Air quailty is what's commonly known as a "red herring."

[@CavemanCrafts86]

What house made in the last 50 years fails to have proper ventilation, if the building was up to code. Any "ventilation issues" are to blame on the people who built the living space, not the stove.

[@bcubed72]

Actually, most modern homes have lousy ventilation in the name of energy efficiency. Older homes were "drafty" and thus exchanged air better.

[@techmage89]

@@CavemanCrafts86 Every apartment I've lived in, including brand new buildings, has absolute crap ventilation. There's no outside intake, and the stove hood just vents straight into the room. The only way to get fresh air is to open a window, and many apartments don't have many of those, either. There are no legal requirements to have good ventilation, and renters are in no position to fix the problem.

[@snc4073]

@@CavemanCrafts86 is the first question rhetorical

[@RandomDudeOne]

As for emergency situations where there is no power for your electric stove, check out portable butane stoves. They are quite inexpensive, under $30. Keep two or three and some fuel stored away for a rainy day.

[@TheSimArchitect]

Nah. Butane isn't woke. You need to go full electric. If the government cuts your energy you must be happy to own nothing and eat raw food. Potato chips come pre cooked and are cheap, bread too. Just open the bag, eat, work and stop bitching. The WEF will say you're doing the bare minimum and still not turn your electricity back on.

[@TheRealE.B.]

This. Use survival gear for emergency scenarios. Don't buy suboptimal workhorse products for everyday use just because they might be more useful in obscure scenarios.

[@PastunesMusic]

Please edit your post to include a disclaimer not to use them indoors. The byproduct of burning butane is a significant amount of carbon monoxide NOT carbon dioxide which can get very deadly very quickly. Do not ever use this kind of stove indoors. All that said, Coleman makes some quality ones that I've used while camping for years.

[@RandomDudeOne]

@@PastunesMusic I have researched this issue. A lot of contradictory stories about this. Personally I've concluded the risk of burning butane indoors is not greater than natural gas. If you have good evidence to contradict this please let me know.

[@1337Jogi]

If you are really concerned about these emergency situations also check that you use and older gas stove model. The new ones that are designed for safety might also not work without power. They often use electronics to check for safe use (leakage and that the flame actually burns when turned on) and they will refuse to work without power because they close the main safety valve.

[@alexandertrimm5246]

Adam, thanks for the level-headed analysis. One other factor you might consider is the cost of having gas at all versus buying a new induction range. My place only uses gas for the range and the bill runs $25/month. Only about $3 of that is the gas itself. The rest is fixed fees just for being connected. If I weren't renting, I would 100% replace my stove with induction simply because it would save me $300/year getting rid of my gas connection. That alone would pay for an incredibly nice induction range over its lifetime. Tennessee is warm enough to heat with heat pump. If you do switch over (or already have one) it would be a smart economic decision to switch out your range at the same time and ditch your gas bill altogether.

[@zoicon5]

I had a similar situation in my old place where the only thing I used gas for was the heat. So every summer I'd pay $25/mo without using any gas.

[@user-rn3rn6nl3h]

Induction stoves use a lot of electricity.

[@bannanachops]

I have a heat pump for the last year and a half. It has saved me 100's in bills already.

[@zesky6654]

@@user-rn3rn6nl3h They don't. You're thinking of resistance bases electric stoves, indiction stoves are very efficient.

[@brandon9172]

@@user-rn3rn6nl3h Even if they did, which they don't, it'd still be cheaper in a lot of states.

[@NoTengoIdeaGuey]

One interesting thing I've discovered in my recent research into upgrading to an induction stove is that actually not all "stainless steel" pans are actually made in a way that leaves them magnetic. Basically the addition of certain other metals like chromium or nickel in combination with other heat-treating processes can change the crystalline structure of the resulting alloy and affect whether or not it responds to magnetic fields. Again, these pans are usually the cheaper non-aluminum pots and pans you'd find at mid-tier retailers, but even some ostensibly higher- grade brands can still be heavy-duty and high-quality while simultaneously having no magnetic response. Check on the box if it says "induction-ready" or bring a small magnet with you if you are shopping for used pans at estate sales or something.

[@philipptielmann]

another case for electric powered stuff: a central large fossil powerplant is usually far more efficient (large diesel motors run at optimal operating point get over 50% efficiency, a car more like 20% in real life). and you can built very elaborate filters for large central powerplants.

[@mariastevens6406]

At first I was gonna say oh boy, you're jumping on it too huh, but then you actually started making sense. Especially given the discourse. This is refreshing.

[@rileywebb4178]

IIRC, he's already talked about gas stoves before and had a similar conclusion.

[@mariastevens6406]

@@rileywebb4178 I didn't catch that one. Even more reassuring.

[@Psychonautical89]

@@rileywebb4178 I'm at work for the next eight hours if you're able to su.marize the conclusion or nuance before I am able to consume this episode

[@TheModdedwarfare3]

@@Psychonautical89 get better ventilation instead of a new stove. Maybe switch to electric if your current stove dies. We have to come up with a solution of fake news being free and good journalism being paywalled.

[@jasonreed7522]

@@Psychonautical89 basically the main cons of gas are that it dumps combustion products into your kitchen and about 2/3rds of the heat goes right into the air. The main counter to this is ventilation, with good ventilation you can suck most of the bad stuff out. Induction is basically just an electromagnet heating your cookware so you need a conductor but not too good of a conductor. Its main benefit is that it doesn't heat the air and otherwise has similar performance to gas, so its popular for restaurants. The end conclusion is that the money and climate costs of making new stuff is prohibitive to replacing a relatively new appliance so just run yours until it's time to replace it and then get an induction one. (Induction also has the benefit that electricity doesn't have to come from fossil fuels even if a large share is currently from natural gas.)

[@AnonymousSam]

This channel is a god send. In a time where "Do the research" is a derisive meme, I really appreciate you walking us through how one, in fact, does the research.

[@XSpamDragonX]

We've gotten to the point where the only acceptable way to have an opinion is if you copied it from a "reputable" news source.

[@mars7304]

@@XSpamDragonX nah just don't lie about shit and get entitled when someone corrects you lmao

[@halkon4412]

@@XSpamDragonX Or a completely non-reputable one, depending on what cultural bubble you find yourself in.

[@pm6127]

@@halkon4412 as a non American... American right wingers seem to be more inclined to trust non reputed sources tbh.. e.g. vaccines, soya foods, election fraud etc. Meanwhile American left seems busy in performative stuff

[@userequaltoNull]

@@halkon4412 no such thing as a reputable news source, embrace Schizo-Centrism lol

[@Souchirouu]

To be honest getting a glass topped stove is worth it just for the cleaning. Takes one swipe and it's clean compared to trying to clean the mess between the gas burners.

[@willallen7757]

yeah I never want one with exposed burners again.

[@evolution__snow6784]

got one induction glass top, never looked back

[@nadogrl]

It’s not quite that easy to clean, but still easier than an open stovetop, unless you keep it clean every time you cook.

[@user-rn3rn6nl3h]

Glass top sucks with cast iron

[@otm646]

You've never cooked on a Viking gas stove have you?

[@rainbow_vader]

I lived in apartments most of my life all with shitty, barely functional, old electric stoves. Moving into an actual house with a gas stove was amazing so hearing the recent news around them was a kick in the balls 🙃

[@UltimateBreloom]

My mom recently got a new electric stove at her house, not even induction, and it's so much easier to cook their than my apartment. Shitty apartment stoves are shitty, but not because they're electric. But because landlords are cheap.

[@NeravarSneed86]

@@UltimateBreloom you will never be a woman and i'll never give up my gas. come and take it

[@UltimateBreloom]

@@NeravarSneed86 what?

[@thesilentone4024]

I've had bolth bad and good electric stoves but gas omg i was like why is it taking so dam long for my ramen taking forever to cook. Yes a bad electric was worse then gas but a good $500 to $600 electric stove wow 5 minutes and done but with gas 15 to 20 minutes on same number on the nob.

[@bjl4782]

But that's just what he's saying.. you said "recent news around.." .. it's not actually "news".. it's right wing fear mongering, blowing things out of proportion to maintain their clickbait base.

[@JustinAZ]

I showed up for the cooking talk, but stayed for the rational and articulated discussion on science and governmental intervention. Thank you, Adam, for your logical and reasoned arguments rebutting both sides.

[@toin9898]

A point of information: ventless fireplaces are illegal in most parts of the world. US safety standards should not be the benchmark for actual safety in most cases.

[@mars7304]

Especially since there are Americans in this comment section saying that the government shouldn't have ANY say so over housing regulation. Like what?

[@emm_arr]

@@mars7304 Like stoopid. The cult of rugged indvidualism.

[@NikoBellaKhouf2]

@@mars7304 The government shouldn't have a say in anything

[@mrniusi11]

Bootlicker be gone. The government of the USA was created to defend liberty and respect god-given, natural rights, not to create laws. When the economy impldes under your beloved regulations your type won't survive what is coming. Facts.

[@mars7304]

@@NikoBellaKhouf2 okay you literal child

[@OffRampTourist]

My grandmothers were the best cooks I knew and both cooked on propane so that's how I learned, and electric stove tops of the 60s and 70s put me off electric completely. Last year a friend switched to induction and I wound up ordering a single burner unit to test. I haven't used the gas stove top since. Lots of tiny house builders use a countertop induction unit that they store in a drawer when not in use, increasing counter space. I was on the verge of killing my gas account even before the recent kerfuffle. I just need to get an emergency system in place first.

[@linuxman7777]

Induction is based all the power of electric with the responsiveness of gas

[@OffRampTourist]

@@linuxman7777 My favorite thing so far is not heating up the kitchen in the summer just to boil water.

[@onedayatatime8756]

I'm disabled and live in low income state housing. = (For elderly, disabled, and veterans) They came in and changed out our gas stoves for electric stoves 5 years ago. They changed out all of the flouresent lights with LED lights too. No smoking either, not even if you're in your own car in the parking lot with the windows completely rolled up. THEY ignore repairs/maintenance that they're supposed to do by law though. It took them 9 months (after 7 calls to them and finally giving up) to change the outside porch light and that's a safety issue. The ONLY light in the parking lot is blown out and it's completely black out there and dangerous too. I've called her about it twice now and nothing. I tripped on the curb in the dark and twisted my ankle a couple of nights ago, so I took photos of the whole parking lot, and my injury as well. I told the new executive mngr. that I'd be glad to show her my photos, but she hasn't got back to me,.. of course, and the light still isn't fixed after 14 days so far. The new executive manager sent me an invoice for $25.00 because my air conditioner was still in my window after Nov. 15th. It was completely covered up, inside and out, and sealed up with weather stripping and caulking and had no air leaks or drafts. I've been doing it that way for 26 years now and never had a problem. It's right by my bed, so of course I don't want air leaks and drafts. I'm grateful to have a roof over my head, but it annoys me that THEY don't do what they're supposed to do by law. They do apartment inspections every year, document problems that you tell them about, and never fix anything. They put up a kitchen light fixture (unsealed to the elements) outside my back outside door and told me it couldn't stay that way. I bring that to their attention every year and it's still out there after 7 years. It's a possible fire hazard, but they ignore it. They relocated the fuse breaker panel in my apt. AFTER I'd been living here for 14 years. All of a sudden they started hassling me, and telling me that I had to get rid of my 4' 10" dresser mirror, because it was now blocking the breaker box and that it's a state law and can't be there. I obey their rules, but they don't obey the housing codes and laws. It's a one way street with them. Rules for thee, but not for me,.. as usual.

[@CavemanCrafts86]

Those who use "for the greater good" as a reasoning for their bullshit is often doing it for their own good.

[@adisonklein3385]

I worked for a few years at the corporate headquarters of a fairly large apartment company that over half of the 120 complexes were section 8. Also my mother was a regional manager of section 8 apartments and on the southern district of HUDs board and I grew up visiting properties and seeing how they were managed. I assume that your apparent is managed by a company, if so, you should directly contact cooperate regarding the reported necessary repairs that have not been preformed, especially the parking lot light. The company I worked for had four people dedicated to dealing with resident issues that came into corporate. If they don't respond, and resolve them, you should contact HUD about these issues. As for the breaker box, that is really not something the property manager would have any control over. The electrical plans were most likely done by an engineer and standardized across all the units. The fines may seem petty, if they cover heat it is understandable, but not sure if this is the case. Also unfortunately fines are necessary to get people to follow certain rules and because of lawsuits they have to be given across the board and are difficult to be waived. If one person is given a pass on almost anything someone else inevitably finds out and claims that they were discriminated against. This opens the company up to expensive lawsuits.

[@neuemilch8318]

@@adisonklein3385 In Germany, social housing is run either by the city or district or by a special type of cooperative, partly also in joint projects. Is there something like that in your country, too, or is it taken over exclusively by profit-oriented companies?

[@onedayatatime8756]

@@adisonklein3385 You're correct about the rules and I fully obide by them. I agree, you can't let one person slide and not the other tenants too. As far as corporate goes, no, this is government funded state housing. I may have to call the board of health or speak to legal aid. I keep notes, dates and times, and what is said to me about everything. I have plenty written down that she's said to me too. I was also told that I can't keep my screen door locked anymore, because "If something happens to me and they can't get in, they'll have to rip the door off and I'll be charged for it." Seems a bit extreme to me when all they'd have to do is break the glass and turn the lock to open it. I refuse to comply with that. Only 6 months after she told me that, my neighbors apt. was broken into. She (an elderly woman) ran out the back door for help to another neighbors apt. at 3:30am. When the police arrived the perp. was in her bed naked and soaking wet. He must've took a quick shower? Idk. I reminded this new executive mngr. about the murder in the apt next to me and told her i was concerned for my safety. Her answer to me was "that was years ago and stop locking your screen door!" She downplays everything as if it's all no big deal and i have no right to my opinion, or my rights as a tenant. 3 years isn't that long ago, and this country is far more dangerous now that it was back then, maybe even more dangerous than its ever been in history. I'm nearly 60 yrs. old and I don't ever remember crime being so out of control in the USA. Too soft on crime and criminals and the thugs all know it too.

[@Itstoearly]

Fun fact: that pain you feel in your chest when you are holding your breath isn't from the lack of oxygen but rather the buildup of carbon dioxide in your blood. If you were in a very oxygen poor atmosphere (say, mostly nitrogen) you would actually die of hypoxia and never feel anything really bad... just a bit of a drunken state for a few seconds before you pass out.

[@deus_ex_machina_]

For examples of this, check out the US CSB’s disaster breakdowns.

[@danielcarroll3358]

My city, like several of its neighbors, no longer allows gas connections to NEW construction. This says nothing about Existing gas anything, although if you give up your gas connection you can't get it back. When my house was renovated I went to electric everything, induction stove, heat pump water heater, heat pump heat/cool etc. with one exception, the clothes dryer. This allows me to keep the gas connection for any potential buyer (should I wish to sell the house) and they are addicted to gas stoves. Oh, and I have solar that exceeds my annual need for electric power. When there was a need for electric power on a really hot day in these parts the governor asked the citizens to back off their use of electricity. They listened and there were no rolling blackouts except for a few areas that misunderstood the request and started doing blackouts even though there was sufficient power available. Humans do such things sometimes.

[@SeattlePioneer]

This is modern day Stalinism.

[@danielcarroll3358]

@@SeattlePioneer They don't allow lead in paint either.

[@SeattlePioneer]

@@danielcarroll3358

[@danielcarroll3358]

@@SeattlePioneer And in LED lamps, although less, but in paint it was lead oxide, a nice white that poisons children and is expensive to remove from housing. A much higher relative risk.

[@SeattlePioneer]

@@danielcarroll3358 Government often REQUIRED people to brin g lead into their homes with CFLs. That wasn't the case with lead paint. But leftists and environmentalists have always been eager to sacrifice the interests and safety of human being when it served their other "lofty" political aims.

[@Michael-xd7sj]

Adam, I have the utmost respect for you and your thoughtfulness. You constantly impress me with your ability to keep an open mind about sensitive topics and in turn force me to do the same. Also, you cook good. It is in this context that I ask you to consider dropping masterworks as a sponsor. Fine art is actually hyper correlated to the s&p and is particularly illiquid in troubled times. Fractional ownership structures of real assets outside of ongoing incorporated structures have a very troubled history.

[@mgkleym]

The art market is super inflated from rich people doing shady shit with it to avoid taxes. It's not that different from what we saw with nfts.

[@InsertValue]

100% agree came here to say the same thing. I like Adam’s nuanced and level-headed approach to topics, so loved the intro and was pretty disappointed when I heard the masterworks Ad.

[@RafaelusOptimus]

This is spam and should be reported as such :)

[@davecgriffith]

Great video! Gotta plug ClimateTown's gas stove video, which I think anyone who made it most of the way through this video would also enjoy. Thanks Adam!

[@Werdna12345]

That's the one. I was trying to remember what channel made the video 👍

[@KerryHallPhD]

I really liked that one too.

[@Homer-OJ-Simpson]

ClimateTown is a joke. He gets 90% of way there but then makes extremist assumptions. His videos are too preachy. If he scaled back some of his comments, I would really like it. But like most sources that have a clear bias (and bias isn’t always bad), it just goes to an extreme either for ideological reasons or for viewership. I’m progressive and there is nothing I consume that is strongly progressive because all of them tend to go far left with no or little care of opposing sides…it becomes an echo chamber. I like NPR because even though it picks stories that cater to the left more than the right, it covers each story very balanced.

[@churblefurbles]

All regime talking heads, as the us producers pushed this issue so they could make mega profits off europe instead.

[@malcolm_in_the_middle]

There is no chance I will ever watch a video from an account named 'ClimateTown'. If I want to hear a sermon, I will go to church.

[@arwon2227]

The government where I live has already started its gas phaseout plans with a 2045 end date. There's now no new gas connections in new housing developments or suburbs, next will be a lot of electrification. It's really not a big deal.

[@robertgoldman8064]

This is the best RECIPE ever from a podcast . Can't wait til it's made . A big dish of Common Sense .

[@nunya___]

Adam really gets to the _meat_ of any topic.

[@Visitkarte]

Electrical stove(infrared or induction) is way more reasonable- but a gas cooker with a gas container is a wonderful backup for any emergencies. Win-win. Hugh tech solution: having your own solar panel and a battery for backup.

[@ryneches]

You came so close to mentioning the event that got the ball rolling on California's gas stove ban -- the San Bruno pipeline explosion in 2010. It's a miracle that only eight people died. Then, in 2015, there was the Aliso Canyon gas leak, which would been catastrophic if it had ignited. The health and environmental dimentions notwithstanding, the total loss of public confidence in companies like Edison, PG&E and SoCalGas is a big factor.

[@ediisonn]

I’m sorry :(

[@richardarriaga6271]

@@renmcmanus Edison kills though. I mean literally. No sex required. Their mismanagement triggered a massive wildfire.

[@nooneyouknow13]

@@richardarriaga6271 PG&E as well. And both of those issues track back to Pete Wilson's admin deregulating the utility companies and allowing them to privatize. I also feel the need to mention that the lobbying for the federal level Energy Policy Act of 1992 was was almost entirely bankrolled by Enron.

[@SeattlePioneer]

I had never heard of the San Bruno Pipeline explosion: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Bruno_pipeline_explosion#Investigation What did that have to do with gas ranges?

[@SeattlePioneer]

The most common reason for gas explosions are leaks on gas mains that saturate the ground and migrate into basements or crawl spaces. That's especially likely to be the cause where multiple buildings are involved in an explosion. By comparison, the gas leaks people usually report in their homes are usually minor and not an actual hazard, although they still need to be repaired. The gas utility I worked for required those responding to gas odor complaints to test for gas saturating the ground against foundations before entering a building. if gas was detected at higher than 4%, the building would be evacuated and the fire department summoned without entering the building. And added feature of this kind of leak was that gas migrating through the ground could filter out the mercaptan odorant added to the gas, in which case gas might have no odor even at explosive levels.

[@TubePincher]

This is one of the best explanations of critical thinking I have seen. I'm trying (and struggling) to teach it to my students this week. If you could condense this down to a 9 second tictoc, that would be most helpful.

[@stuartdilts2729]

I think there are two different issues here. One is that the statement by the government official was taken out of context and misinterpreted to some degree. The other is that there are pros and cons to gas stoves from a safety perspective, and these need to be weighted when prohibiting them in new construction. You could also talk about alternatives to banning them, such as requiring a certain amount of ventilation, and why that may not be enough. Maybe separating the two out could make things easier?

[@ZacharyBittner]

He did tiktoks before because TikTok paid him, but then there was a controversy over a comment he said about the safety of halal meat or something because no one bothered to watch the other videos for context and he decided (I think correctly) that TikTok is not a platform where his topics translate well.

[@rockingredpoppy9119]

Gas stoves are better during power outages, you can still use the stove top just lighting it with a match. It's nice to have alternatives, and not put our eggs all in one basket. In my area power can be out for several days at a time, and no electric stove can kick a gas stove's ass if the power is out.

[@joeljong931]

Yes, it is a good for the recent cold snap outtages, i think until the grid is solidified years from now an exception for commercial/public kitchens in New construction would naturally support communities in power outages and make it easier on cooks who are not familiar with induction stoves.

[@Beliserius1]

Related to orthodoxy, people often spread the idea that polar bears are dying with the often repeated photo of a starving polar bear. If you bring up the fact that polar bear population is actually rebounding and has been for a while, you'll get death threats. Even the photographer of the starving polar bear had to clarify himself that it is not representative of the polar bear population.

[@brianlehmkuhl8162]

My last house had a secret coal room. It was very clean, all concrete with an iron manhole under what was a rear add on. I used it to keep all my paperwork from my sandwich shop. It was a fireproof room. Best place to store records.

[@skyhawk_4526]

I'll admit, I'm one of those people who despises electric over gas stoves. I had no idea about the effectiveness of newer electric stoves. I simply grew up with both (over the last four decades) and know gas stoves are supremely better when cooking than the standard coil type electric elements that I was forced to use during certain periods in my life. Having said that, I still like the fact that gas stoves can be used when the power is out, and as a Californian, I've had more than my fair share of needing to cook while the power was out. In 2019, our power was out for 5 days, and aside from the cold, I was doing fine since I had a gas stovetop and a gas water heater. I could cook and take hot showers. That was luxury it turned out. Because, then due to the spread of the same fire, the utility company cut our gas as well. Three days without gas was hell. I could only cook on a propane camp stove (which I fortunately had) and after day 2, the hot water in the water heater was ice cold. It was 53 degreees F inside the house and the water when I showered was about the same tempureture. I'll take an electrical outage over a gas outage any day!

[@rockingredpoppy9119]

I agree 100% as a Northern Californian where good old PG&E will cut your power for days, and my house temps get down to 49 degrees over a period of days. I want my gas stove, we will die of hypothermia while they are saving us from gas stoves. 😀

[@misterscienceguy]

@@rockingredpoppy9119 Modern gas stoves won't work without electricity anyway? It's a moot point.

[@rockingredpoppy9119]

@@misterscienceguy That's not true, during power Outages, you can still use the stove top, you just turn on the gas and light it with a match. Voila! I do it all the time. 🙂

[@random832]

I'm not sure the dichotomy you've drawn on electric vs gas disaster recovery is really valid - AIUI recovering from any interruption of gas service for any reason almost *always* takes days to weeks because they have to go door to door making sure everyone's individual valves are shut (because no-one's pilot lights are on).

[@mathieusan]

around 28:00, if I may add. It's true that well designed gas stoves (as all modern ones are) will burn the natural gas completely and cleanly. One more danger however is when the nozzle or the burner (the hat-like thingy where the flame comes out) could become little clogged-up with soot or dirt or corrosion/flaky paint over time, or not be installed properly, leading to bad fuel/air mixture (this is when you see an orange flame instead of a blue flame) which leads to incomplete combustion, and therefore hazardous CO is released. Only when the flame is completely blue that it is a (near) complete combustion releasing very little to no CO (aka carbon monoxide).

[@sfpirpleoranges]

maybe there should be emission standards applied to gas stoves?

[@SeattlePioneer]

The "hat like thingy" is the primary air shutter. It injects air into the fuel gas before it's burned, and then additional air surrounding the flame completes the combustion. That primary air is what distinguished a Bunsen Burner from a yellow flame burner. And you are correct, if the primary air is obstructed it can cause the Bunsen Burner to become a yellow flame burner which can produce soot and carbon monoxide, among other partial products of combustion. That's quite rare though, unless someone closes off the primary air shutter themselves. I did see one episode of cockroaches filling up the primary air supply because they were attracted by the gas odor. (This was in a Chinese restaurant where the hood over the gas range was shut off, and the cooks were being gassed by CO coming from the improper operation of the burners!)

[@LindsayGardiner-j3v]

This podcast episode is the reason I put an air purifier and open windows in my kitchen while cooking with my gas stove/oven. Thanks, Adam!

[@TheSuzberry]

The cost of gas has gone up tremendously. The annual budget for gas in our community has gone from $260k 2022 to $360k for 2023.

[@erindreams1790]

I think more people would support forcing landlords to maintain a minimum and safe measure of ventilation - all except the landlords who cater to poor folks. In my experience, landlords renting to poor folks don't care about the tenants. They just want the money. If a tenant challenges a landlord - even over a safety issue - they're likely to be evicted because they lack the money to fight the eviction. It's deal with lack of ventilation or be homeless. This country has much deeper issues than gas stoves, and gas stoves are just one capillary along the major vein.

[@mars7304]

I think the fact that this is being talked about as if it's a major issue is a sign that politicians have inflated the severity of it for their own gain.

[@michaelmannucci8585]

Yes, unfortunately most people would support this smaller step toward having the government regulate every aspect of your life so they can feel a sense of "safety" and moral superiority, as opposed to the larger step of banning gas stoves.

[@erindreams1790]

@@mars7304 You make a good point. That said, I'm pretty liberal with a few centrist leanings, and I have no intention to give up my gas stove. I might for an induction cook top. Maybe. Maaaaaaaybe.

[@brandon9172]

@@erindreams1790 Okay? Well you wouldn't have to give up your gas stove. No one would. If you took the time to research, hell, even just watch this video, you'd know it'd only apply to new production of gas stoves. The only impact it'd have on gas users is a gradual increase in cost, and you'd probably have to repair your stove more often since it'd be old.

[@Craxin01]

I think the majority of the issue here is we have two sides with all-or-nothing approaches. One side wants to control everything, and the other want no government control over ANYTHING. Can't we have a happy medium where some things are left to choice and some are controlled for public safety? Have an argument, present facts and evidence, come to a reasonable conclusion and proceed accordingly. A car works with one foot on the gas, one on the brake, and both controlled together. We have the left on the gas, the right on the brake, and both refuse to let up ever. All we're doing is spinning our wheels. And, yes, I know the gas is controlled by the right foot and the break the left IRL, it's an analogy.

[@ALZulas]

Personally, as an adult I with asthma, I will say that a gas stove with a hood on vs a gas stove without is noticeably different for me

[@frequentlycynical642]

The hood would have to vent to the outside. Very few do. Most just blast the fumes back in your face.

[@TheModdedwarfare3]

@@frequentlycynical642 often through a filter at least

[@nolongeramused8135]

@@frequentlycynical642 I've never seen one over a gas range that doesn't vent to the outside, but most places I've lived had suck-ass electric stoves so it didn't matter.

[@UberMenschNowFilms]

@@frequentlycynical642 I grew up in a house that had a proper fume hood. My dad ran a construction business that specialized in restaurant buildout/remodel. When my parents remodeled our kitchen, he went all out on the hood (mainly so he could smoke in the house during winter lol). But yeah, my current stove just blows smoke in my face. I hate it.

[@frequentlycynical642]

@@UberMenschNowFilms My family had a home for 55 years with outside venting. My present hood is so worthless that I don't use it. If I get a lot of steam production and turn the fan on, you can see the output steam just destroying the journey of the input steam to the fan.

[@joebot86]

Having switch from gas, to electric, to induction, I'll always favor Induction, they are just so much cleaner, in basically every way. I do have a camping stove and some Butane around, for camping trips, but it could also be useful in a no electricity situation. Related to your final points, I'm a big EV advocate, the #1 piece of advice I'll give about them is "If your car works, keep it, get an EV when it dies"

[@CavemanCrafts86]

Until the government says you're not allowed to charge your car because the grid is overloaded.

[@TheModdedwarfare3]

@@CavemanCrafts86 which is what happens when your grid is horribly outdated because it costs money to upkeep things and that would mean less money for the investors

[@joebot86]

@@CavemanCrafts86 I don't live in California or Texas. And in that case it was "we would like if you didn't" not a ban.

[@skyhawk_4526]

@@joebot86 I do live in California and the "We would like it if you didn't" (charge your electric vehicle) is a precursor to shutting down the electrical grid because not enough people followed the "suggestion" (because they have to commute to work in the morning). So, whether it's a ban or a suggestion is not important since the outcome (the power gets turned off anyway) is the same in either case. Adding more EV's without massively adding to the capacity of the grid is a recipe for disaster. And that's not even touching on the idea that a government could deliberately turn of the grid (in an EV-only environment) in order to prevent anyone from traveling if they so choose.

[@joebot86]

@@skyhawk_4526 my literal main point of advice about EV's is "Wait". As to the "government could stop travel by killing the grid", I don't even think there is a response to that. they can already stop you from travelling if they wanted, and gas pumps use electricity as well, you wouldn't be getting much farther.

[@gaboversta2.423]

This was refreshingly well balanced. I have grown cautious of any form of podcast, video, article etc. attempting to summarize science, discourse or politics, especially around topics where there are financial motives involved. Leaving green house gases and health aside, the past decade or so I lived with my parents who had a gas stove and made me cook on it. Moving abroad (Germany to Estonia) and experiencing and old electric stove in the dormitory was and still is frustrating, especially since I visited my family over the holidays. They have upgraded to induction and I found it frustrating that putting a pot on stove and turning it on meant that it actually got warm within seconds while my stove here in Tallinn has me waiting minutes for the pasta water to boil… Overall, even compared to the gas stove, induction is way more fun. Other electric stoves are just incredibly frustrating.

[@elimgarak1127]

Fence sitting isn't well balanced. There's a fence post up his ass. Nothing to balance.

[@KingBobXVI]

"This was refreshingly well balanced. I have grown cautious of any form of ... especially around topics where there are financial motives involved." At the same time, be wary of rote "centrism" masquerading as deep or "enlightened" thought. His points on stoves were extremely well thought out and I thing he's right on the money regarding their advantages and disadvantages, why the "cooking with gas" campaign has been effective, the fact there is no ban in question, etc. But I think he's off at the end on the part about "scientific orthodoxy" specifically regarding global warming. Always be open to contrary evidence and the possibility that you might be wrong, yes, but when 99%+ of the evidence supports one view, it's unreasonable to double down on the "well maybe it's still wrong" viewpoint. At some point, you have to ignore the naysayers and actually deal with the problem that is clearly happening. It's also worth mentioning that "well, what if it's wrong, let's wait for more evidence" has been the running tactic of the fossil fuel industries to avoid having to do anything to curtail the effects of global warming for the last 50 years or more. When the status quo is the problem, be very skeptical of those who argue to maintain that status quo "just to be sure" and then continue to kick the can down the road indefinitely by saying the same thing every time new evidence comes out.

[@kscotth]

There is no doubt that people with varying degrees of perspective are listening to this podcast. Whatever your stance is on anything, Adam, thanks for being someone who takes a pretty large platform and presents information to them in a way that is as digestible as possible for everyone and for making an attempt to see and present potentially contentious topics from different angles. In my humble observation, this and only this type of dialogue is how you get people warm enough to consider contrary thoughts and beliefs. Nobody is right or wrong all the time. Thanks again.

[@m.h.6470]

I have an induction stove since I moved into my current flat ~7 years ago. I will never go back to electric and I would not switch to gas (I have cooked quite a bit with it in the past, though I never owned a gas stove myself).

[@senior_java]

That's exactly what happened to me as well! NEVER go back again to gas or electric, only induction!

[@belekjenkins2308]

"I've never tried it, yet I will never use it."

[@m.h.6470]

@@belekjenkins2308 ?

[@senior_java]

@@belekjenkins2308 Sure. A lot of people still use firewood to cook, they are convinced it's the best option.

[@MrJimme2003]

You mentioned giving policy makers a break because it can be complicated. I would argue that they can not get it "right" because there is no universal solution and it is impossible for them to even understand all the different scenarios. For example, I don't think you even mention one of the primary reason I want Gas appliances. I live in rural East Texas. The Coop I am on has thousands of miles of lines to maintain and it is not uncommon, especially during hurricane season, for me to be without power for up to 2 weeks. The Gas dose not go out and with a simple gas appliances I can still cook and take hot showers. People in different areas, doing different things need, living different lives, have different needs. Unfortunately there is really no what to fully understand how others live without living like them for several years. I think this is a root cause of the fundamental distain between the red and blue areas. In rural areas what your neighbor does has very little, if any, impact on you. In urban areas your neighbor watching TV to loud can keep you from sleeping. As a result I think Rural people develop a "you do you and leave me be" kind of attitude towards others while in cities people want rules saying no loud music after 9pm. In cities the air is crap and electric cars can be an effective way to help with that, but you need most people to buy into the idea. So you go to the government and they mandate electric cars and in cities it works fine. A basic electric car can be a great alternative to ICE in a city. Out here, not so much. For running into town for errands yeah electric would be fine. But I cant load up a couple of tons and go hundreds of miles at once. I have to do that. I have neighbors that have to haul 20k to 30k pound loads all over the place. With a full load you will barely make it into town where the only fast chargers are. And there is still the issue of when the power is out I'm stuck here, and unable to even heat up a can of beans. They are great in cities where its all short drives or sitting in traffic and the power is restored pretty quick, but out here they are just way less practical as a full replacement. Oh and keeping multiple vehicles is also not practical and defeats the environmental argument because of the impact of manufacturing. The best example of this is probably the debate over the 30 round mags. City people ask why would you ever need 30 rounds, and country folks responded hogs. Well, city folks just laughed and said there's no way. Anyone who has experience with hogs knows good a well 30 rounds can easily not be near enough. Hogs are bad, tough, numerous, destructive, and dangerous. A small sounder will be 15 or 20 and that small sounder will do more damage to land in a night than you can by dumping 100 barrels of oil on it and setting it on fire. Oh and they will happily charge you, have razor sharp tusks, and given half a chance will eat you. If you're not Carole Baskins, then the best option you can find to get rid of a body is hungry hogs. Bones and all. I can see why, if you live in an apartment, you wouldn't want you neighbor to have a 30 round mag full of steel penetrators, but I would love to have a few strapped to me. The basic difference tends to come down to Red folks say "make your own decision that's best for you in your situation" while the Blue folks tends to say "This is best for us so it must be best for you and we will make sure the Government makes you". Long rant short, just provide as accurate of information as you can and let people decided for themselves. I like the idea of induction, but I also like the idea of being able to cook when the power is out for 2 weeks. Oh and when it comes to gas appliance in apartments, gas appliances are generally cheaper, simpler, last longer, and easier to maintain which is why landlords like them. So to mandate electric appliances they would have to upgrade electric service, install and service more expensive appliances more often which increases cost. Everything is done for a reason and it is best to understand what that reason is, and have at least some idea what the fall out would be, before you start making people change things.

[@KingLoop13]

Adam, lots of great points here. Your ability to draw in nuance in a place where it could easily be misconstrued one way or another is a rarity in our time.

[@elimgarak1127]

It's called fence sitting and it's not impressive.

[@KingLoop13]

@@elimgarak1127 Sitting on the fence when the science is opaque is the smart thing to do. Galvanizing yourself into choosing one side or the other is emotional and moronic. But all of that is entirely irrelevant when considering Adam’s overall point here, which is “You’re acting as though it’s a choice between A (gas) or B (electric/convection) when really it’s C (ventilation) that’s the problem”. No fence sitting here, just critical thinking.

[@TagiukGold]

First they came for the asbestos mittens and tiles, but I said nothing because I didn't have asbestos items. Then they came for the DDT, but I said nothing because I didn't use DDT. Then they came for the CFCs and I said nothing because I had already stopped using CFCs. So when they came for the gas stoves, no one could help me, because I had already changed to an induction electric. (That being said, good ideas don't require force. Except, perhaps, to prevent the tragedy of the commons)

[@EnanoPancracio]

Good ideas don't require force is a nice sentiment but largely untrue. All sorts of good ideas from universal suffrage to desegregation required force, often a lot of it, to be implemented.

[@TagiukGold]

@@EnanoPancracio segregation and banning people from voting were laws enforced by the force of government, which has a monopoly on force. And in all the examples you mentioned and that I can think of, other than commons, involve aggressors using force to implement bad ideas. Force can be appropriate when in response to unjust force. See: The Non Aggression Principle"

[@workaholica]

I also have found some coal in the basement. While I still want to get rid of the oil burner in favor of a heat pump some day, I now know how much worse it must have been decades ago. Sidenote: Most of the gas stoves I have used wouldn't even ignite unless you turned on the ventilation hood before. They all were in (semi) professional kitchens, though.

[@singerofsongss]

I recently read all about the Montreal Protocol, the worldwide treaty that was signed to phase out CFCs in order to fix the ozone layer. It’s still doing exactly what they projected back then, gradually fixing itself. The science continues to support it. We tend to talk about the treaty in 2023 as an environmental policy, but the public health aspect (UV transmission through the atmosphere = skin cancer) was a huge part of it too - like it or not, environmental policy and public health policy are massively interrelated, and we really need to start thinking along those lines. What a masterful case of evidence-based policymaking.

[@colecampbell7201]

From the (admittedly little) I know about the worldwide effort to mend the ozone layer, it gives me a small shred of hope that we'll be able to come together to sort out climate change. Policymakers seem to have really understood the science behind phashing out CFCs to protect the planet, and the initiatives implemented have had a marked effect on the ozone hole. It's a shame this sort of thing can't happen more frequently and faster.

[@singerofsongss]

@@colecampbell7201 It’s an unfortunate truth how slowly we have to tackle these problems. It’s just the nature of the thing. It gives me hope too, seeing such a monumental achievement in human cooperation paying off long-term.

[@RandomDudeOne]

I had gas stoves for a long time and thought they were the best. My last couple homes though have had electric, and to tell you the truth I don't miss gas stoves at all. When it comes to cleaning nothing beats a glass top electric stove.

[@samlaine3315]

Cleaning yes everything else I like gas more

[@bobafett4457]

Now try induction, that's just a different level

[@marciamakesmusic]

@@samlaine3315 cleaning, health, efficiency, etc etc etc. Electric just makes more sense in homes

[@RandomDudeOne]

@@bobafett4457 Ordered a stand alone induction for a fifth burner. According to tracking it was supposed to arrive today but I guess almighty Amazon didn't realize the USPS doesn't deliver on MLK day.

[@bobafett4457]

@@RandomDudeOne you're in for a treat, be careful because it heats up SO fast... And have fun!

[@joshwwarren]

I commend you for your volume levels. So many of my talking heads KZbinrs need me to turn my speakers up to like 80%.

[@marcuselias4412]

An Electrical outage, which would affect everyone, or a Gas Explosion, which is a substantially smaller risk given proper maintenance of the systems involved. Given this feels very reminiscent of the banning of incandescent lightbulbs and how the people pushing the change to 'eco friendly' lightbulbs (which were anything but..) also had huge monetary connections with the people making said lightbulbs (wow I'm sure that's just a coincidence) and sudden mass support this change has also gotten, people should investigating "who profits from this?". If even the studies (which can't be verified easily) say "small chance, if any, that this is causing any kind of health issue" then.. it's probably not out of the kindness of their heart that they want this to go through.

[@V0lk]

I've done thousands of home energy audits and always conduct safety tests on gas appliances. Yes, gas stoves can be bad for your indoor air quality. Especially when they are poorly maintained. Most people don't maintain them well and have poor air ventilation in their homes. Especially their range hoods.

[@JasonEDragon]

I've used a gas stove for decades and I have 2 other safety concerns besides air quality. It is easy to accidently leave a burner on when it is set to low and, at least on my current stove, it can be too easy to turn a burner knob from the off position. I have a new cat that is a climber and I'm always concerned that one day he'll bump one of the knobs when I'm asleep or away. Just for safety reason's I'll probably go with an induction stove next time.

[@evelynwaugh4053]

@@JasonEDragon I have only ever used one electric stove, which was at a house I rented for a year. Bizarrely enough, one of my cats began urinating on top of that stove. This had never happened at our previous house, or at the next house (gas stoves). The absolute horror of smelling heated urine 5 minutes after turning on the stove is indescribable. It's a ghastly stench. Unlike gas, electric stoves do not immediately cool down when you turn off the burner, so the stench persisted for quite a time.

[@SeattlePioneer]

@@JasonEDragon > An unlit gas range burner is not going to be able to vent off sufficient gas to be an actual fire or explosion hazard. Gas will unly burn in gas and air mixtures of 4-14%, and natural gas in particular will rise and disperse rather readily. So you would have a strong gas odor, but not an explosion. Not that I recommend that!

[@shu93129]

That introduction is a very reasonable, succinct and clear summary of the miserable public discourse situation we find ourselves in. I hope we all strive towards fixing the public discourse with these simple points in mind.

[@absolstoryoffiction6615]

@@SimuLord Depends... Never forget who is next or is currently in power.

[@mars7304]

Public discourse is the way it is because of the 24/7 news cycle, poor media comprehension skills (wonder why they aren't taught in school anymore?) and the right weaponizing headline culture to make their voters angry about something new every week.

[@absolstoryoffiction6615]

@@mars7304 The Left does the same too... But such is American Politics...

[@AndySaputo]

My gas stove doesn't work when the power is out. The knobs go into lock mode (you can hear them all click when the power goes out). It's some kind of safety feature built into Kitchenaid stoves.

[@willallen7757]

Im sure thats easily disabled by unpluging a wire.

[@AndySaputo]

@@willallen7757 It's built into the logic of the controller and there are relays throughout. Most likely, the main gas line is set to a "Normally Closed" and when there is electricity, it opens the gas to the burners and the oven. When the power is out, it goes to closed since there is no power to keep it open, preventing the oven from pouring gas into the house if the electric ignitor can't turn on to burn the fuel.

[@willallen7757]

@@AndySaputo sounds logical if it has an electric igniter. The last gas stove I used had a pilot light and the middle of the stove was always warm.

[@skyhawk_4526]

@@willallen7757 It sounds like a terrible idea to me. Every gas stove I've ever had with electric igniters allows for the gas to be turned on and then manual lighting with a match or lighter. Some lockout safety system like this defeats the advantage of a gas stove when the power goes out. (And as a California resident, I have more than my fair share of experience when it comes to rather lengthy power outages.)

[@AndySaputo]

@@skyhawk_4526 They choose safety over the rare event someone needs to cook something when the power is out I guess.

[@paulksacco]

A camp stove is a simple backup for living in a disaster-prone area with an electric stove.

[@jamesssdasds]

That's why here in Philippines we have this area called dirty kitchen. The big stoves are outside or at the backyard.

[@fakjbf3129]

8:20 While not usual it is hardly unprecedented for agencies to apply new rules retroactively. In fact just this week the ATF reversed their opinion on pistol braces and added extra regulation and these rules affect pistol braces that were bought before the rule change. For some pistol braces you must now register them with the ATF and if you don’t then you can be charged with a felony, even if you bought it 100% legally years ago when they said that such braces are fine.

[@JJDeAth96]

What!? The ATF said something was 100% legal only to now say its illegal? I can't believe the ATF would do something like this What will they do next? Start shooting people's dogs

[@mars7304]

To be fair, the ATF has always been a shit show and will continue to be a circus of an organization until it eventually is dissolved.

[@JJDeAth96]

@@mars7304 couldn't agree more. Abolish the ATF

[@justwhistlinpixie]

I want to start by saying that I adore my induction range. It's fabulous for all the reasons mentioned and more. However, it's unfortunately more than just aluminum cookware that you need to worry about. When I got my range, my nice Calphalon set that I had been using for a decade NO LONGER WORKED even though it's stainless steel. I tried sticking a powerful magnet to it and sure enough, it wouldn't stick. I had to run to the store and buy a new set. Finding a quality teflon pan that is induction compatible can be a pain. If you are considering buying an induction stove, USE A MAGNET on your existing cookware.

[@jimw9626]

I have a number of All-Clad MC2 pans that won't work on my induction burner. All-Clad discontinued the MC2 line a few years ago. I suspect everything they make going forward will be induction capable. But yeah, if you have older cookware, test it before you go with induction.

[@purplealice]

Stainless steel is an alloy, and it isn't very magnetic at all. My fridge magnets keep falling off my stainless steel refrigerator door.

[@FramerTerminater]

As a fifth-year graduate student in atomic physics, many of your words here are excellent. Attempting to decipher the world and its behavior is an in-progress endeavor where new techniques and better methodology are constantly pushing boundaries of what we know and what we thought we knew. Same time so many people are quick to rally behind and against some research cuz someone told them to cuz of some outrageous media headline with 0 consciousness of what is actually contained within said research. There are many bodies of research on things that are healthy and unhealthy. There is a very broad spectrum of degrees of healthy/unhealthy. Study might say that eating pretzels increases your risk of cancer by 0.1 percent, and some media report pretzels cause cancer, when in reality a 0.1% is nothing in comparison to actual cancer risks like smoking which has percentages in the thousands for inc cancer. The idea such vitriolic social discourse is currently being fought over by a large group of people who have made zero attempt to look into the research is such a painful display of tribalism by people who seem to be trying as hard as they can to degenerate back into cavemen

[@ryanhall1832]

You failed to mention the drastically better efficiency when cooking with gas vice the 33ish thermal efficiency of large generation plants. Then you will also have inefficiencies with transmission and an increased base load which will require additional margin for grid stability.

[@douglasshouganai2516]

The California (and I think Washington or Seattle as well?) phase-out of gas appliances has one very good thing, I think. Namely, innovation in electric resistor and induction stove tops to make them even better.

[@Werdna12345]

39:45 When that time comes I would recommend getting separate induction cooktop and electric ovens (like wall ovens). I got a stand up induction range. It was really noisy (induction noise but also fan noise). The induction coils can’t get too hot and need a fan to cool them off. Basically the worst place you can put induction coils is on top of an oven.

[@komfyrion]

Aha, so that's why! My parents have an induction cooktop on top of their oven (separate units but arranged in the traditional layout) and every time the oven is used the fans on the stove are blasting for like 10 minutes. It's really annoying to hear that every single meal. It is satisfying when the fan finally shuts off and the dining room becomes silent, but it's clearly a flaw.

[@Werdna12345]

@@komfyrion glad I could help. It's getting difficult to find them as a combined slide in range. I think the manufacturers are aware and most are not even offering them.

[@komfyrion]

@@Werdna12345 I wouldn't exactly say hard to find. At Power (big electronics chain in the Nordics) there are dozens of combined oven + induction cooktop stoves currently available. They are tied with ceramic top stoves in availability. Kind of a shame that they are selling products with a fundamental design flaw. Of course, I understand that most kitchens have counter tops and other features that make it somewhat challenging to diverge from this traditional layout.

[@Werdna12345]

@@komfyrion it was hard for me to find it in my price range with manufacturers I trust

[@pomragrahamate]

Great video as always. I’m personally not completely sold on induction anymore. I, like you, was planning on replacing my gas stove with induction when the time came. But then I had the chance to test induction out. I was so disappointed. It boiled water maybe 1 minute faster, using the same pot and amount of water. The heat was centered on a tiny area in a ring on the center of the pan, and it took FOREVER for the rest of the pan to heat up. And then of course there was the fact that it’s just not as responsive. I’m eager to see how tech improves, but I don’t think I could honestly switch to induction right now. Hopefully my gas stove holds out. I’ll be getting a better ventilation system in the meantime.

[@JakkiPi]

Induction does produce less radiating heat in the kitchen, easier to clean and has auto turn off when you remove the pot or pan for so many seconds. Less dangerous when oil splashes out too. Gas, electric or induction doesn't improve cooking, which is how they're advertised. It's just different tools for the same job. We use the air fryer and microwave more often as time savers.

[@pomragrahamate]

@@JakkiPi I’m aware of the benefits-I was going to switch. I just have my doubts now.

[@brandon9172]

Why not get an electric stove then?

[@JoshuaRes]

Curious what stove you tested out and with what cookware? We have a Bosch induction range and Demeyere pans and I don’t feel like I have the situations you described. I definitely have found smaller plug-in induction burners to not be as good though.

[@octo448]

I wish you'd said more about false equivalency, because in my recent experience that's the huge factor people have stopped being able to weigh. On controversial topics, it's often the main talking point of anyone who is a secondary party to the topic. A papercut is not a knife laceration, which is itself not an amputation. They're all wounds, but placing them on the same level of equivalence is absurd, yet we do it all the time for controversial topics.

[@mrgallbladder]

I would never advocate for gas stoves to be banned, but I wouldn't have one in my house, and not for the reasons explained in this video. I'm generally pro you exercising your rights as long as they don't infringe on me practicing my rights. As they say: swing your arms all you want, just not near my face. The reason why I wouldn't have a gas stove is because it baffles me how little is put into design of those things to prevent accidental turning of the knob and how easy it is to do so for a child not knowing what they're doing or even an adult accidentally brushing against it. Both me and my wife grew up in homes with gas stoves and based on personal experience as well as literally anyone I know with a gas stove has some incredible stories of terrible accidents or near-misses from the knobs, either accidentally or by children, being turned on and left to release gas into the house for very long periods of time. One safeguard I can think of off the top of my head is putting a flame sensor on them, so that if there's no flame being sensed when the gas is on for more than a certain amount of time, the gas automatically shuts off

[@karend.9218]

The problem is that people use these stoves regularly without engaging their hood fan. Friends of mine made a stew, pot on the stove on low for a couple hours. Hood off. Their carbon monoxide alarm went off. What else do you need to know…..

[@SeattlePioneer]

> So--- what was done? You can have problems with gas burners that will produce CO, but that would be very unusual. More likely a false alarm by the CO detector ---or was it a smoke detector?

[@georgH]

The most shocking thing I learned today is the power blackouts due to limited electricity demand. Either there is something wrong on power generation in the US, or crazy consumption. I had never seen any of these, lived in many countries, including China and Brazil, and west European countries.

[@vylbird8014]

It's something wrong in the US. Or rather, it's several somethings. - Less densely-populated states have a lot of small rural towns, which means hundreds of kilometres of vulnerable power lines. - Power infrastructure is largely run commercially, so there's little business case for redundancy in infrastructure - it's often cheaper to just accept the risk of down-time. This is what caused the Texas cold-related power shortage: A lot of power stations shut down because they hadn't been prepared to handle extreme cold weather. It's Texas, why waste money winterising? - Where there is federal funding, the way it's structured doesn't cover preventative maintenance. There's funding available for expansion, and to replace failed equipment - but not for preventative maintenance or monitoring.

[@absolstoryoffiction6615]

@@vylbird8014 Sadly... If America is still afraid of Nuclear Energy, then I don't see America existing beyond the next half millennium (500 years from now). As for the Energy Grid... Well... America is vulnerable in so many ways. If Mother Nature decided to throw a curve ball, then the Energy Grid will fall. Of course... Excluding political agendas. The "green energy" ordeal is no salvation for mankind. Humanity has only chosen a future extinction on Earth.

[@TheJohnreeves]

It's the first one, something is wrong with power generation in the US. We have some states (Texas) that put all power generation in the hands of profit driven mostly unregulated companies, and the results are as you would expect. Blackouts all the time, notably during an ice storm recently. Our infrastructure is bad and getting worse.

[@normtrooper4392]

I would really like to be able to switch to an induction stove but they're very expensive and electricity access in my country is infrequent and very unreliable. It's interesting seeing this debate in the US which has a radically different set of outcomes as compared to here

[@scottbutler5]

The whole gas stove discourse has left me behind, partly because I don't mind when the Consumer Product Safety Commission makes rules about the safety of consumer products, but mostly because the one time I had a gas stove I couldn't stand it. People say it gets the pan hot faster, but I found that food took longer to cook because so much of the heat from the flame was dumped into the room rather than conducted into the pan. I tried cranking the burner higher to compensate and wound up melting the handle right off, there was so much heat spilling around the edges of the pan instead of going into my food. Gas looks cool, which I honestly think is a large part of its popularity, but I far prefer cooking on electric.

[@Shazam999]

You did it all wrong. If the heat is spilling over the sides then you need to lower the flame.

[@mars7304]

@@Shazam999 heat will inevitably radiate from the flame into the air around it.

[@Shazam999]

@@mars7304 lol have you actually tried using a gas stove.

[@quantumshadow7416]

Hey Adam, I love your content, I just wanted to correct a minor point. CO2 concentration in air becomes dangerous sooner than the point at which asphyxiation via O2 displacement is your primary concern. That point is the concentration at which the CO2 concentration in the air is equal to or higher than the CO2 concentration in your blood when your body is trying to dump CO2 out of your blood and into your lungs to be breathed out. If that threshold is reached, your blood CO2 concentration will rise, and there is a point at which elevated CO2 concentration will cause you to experience terrifying physiological phenomenon. I just googled the name: hypercapnia.

[@SeattlePioneer]

Sorry bud ---but you obviously don't know your CO2 from your CO ----carbon monoxide. CO2 is not poisonous, and indeed is even more essential to life on earth than oxygen.

[@quantumshadow7416]

@@SeattlePioneer This is incorrect. Again, As CO2 builds up in concentration in the air you breathe, your body is less and less able to transfer CO2 out of your blood and into the air in your lungs to be expelled. At sufficiently high levels, eventually, your lungs can't do their job, and you suffocate. Sometime before you actually suffocate, however, your brain detects the elevation in blood-CO2 levels and causes you to experience the most terrifying psychological panic known to humans in a desperate attempt to get you to flee and find proper air before you pass out and suffocate. Here's an easily google-able source for ya friend: www.osha.gov/publications/hib19960605

[@SeattlePioneer]

@@quantumshadow7416 All right. You found a very rare example of injury or death through greatly elevated levels of co2. The example you gave was of a person making a delivery of bulk co2 from a tanker truck. Not something someone is likely to encounter. In a home environmentat, you aren't going to encounter such levels. It really has nothing to do with the combustion products of natural gas or the hazard that might be encountered by raw natural gas. But you found an example I'd never heard of actually happening, so that was an education. The next time I'm delivering bulk amounts of co2, I'll double check that the fittings are properly made.

[@lj823]

Thank you. Keeping people like me informed and thoughtful, is a bonus of your generosity and depth of character. You have a gift for openness that is transmitted and received.

[@paulstevens1493]

It’s harder to go induction when you have traditional cookware that is incompatible. I use a round bottom wok, a ceramic donabe, and a copper tamagoyaki pan regularly. All these are special to me and connect me to my heritage when I use them. They’re more than just pots and pans, and I would be sad to give them up, but only the tamagoyaki pan is compatible with even a regular electric range, let alone induction.

[@shawnmllr86]

This is a completely valid point. It’s astonishing to me how myopic some of these policy prescriptions are. In contrast to Adam, we absolutely do NOT need to be more gentle on the people making these decisions. They are dictating the lives, culture, and health outcomes for an entire nation. They deserve every ounce or gram of scrutiny they can. Trumka has profoundly demonstrated a lack of maturity for the role he is in. A role that nepotism has played a strong role in. We are not peasants. They have great power. They are not permitted a lack of great responsibility.

[@mars7304]

Can you explain specifically why none of them would work on any electric stove? No single country on earth has been using gas for more than a century.

[@paulstevens1493]

@@mars7304 A round-bottomed wok has a convex bottom, it doesn't sit flat, so it doesn't make adequate contact with an electric burner, and wobbles around. The donabe specifically says "For gas cook top, microwave (500W), oven use only, no electric cook top, no dishwasher." If I had to guess, it's because the flat part of the bottom is quite small-it’s designed for the large, rounded bottom edge to be heated by gas. And none of those three items (including the copper tamagoyaki pan) contain iron, so they are incompatible with induction.

[@drackar]

I think the solution for the gas stove problem would be...mandating a actual outside vent for every kitchen. As for your coal, if you don't want it... find a local blacksmith. They'd love you. I think it's worth noting that Propane has largely replaced coal as the portable fuel source of rural America. Almost everyone in my rural community has a propane range and heater, even if their primary heat source is wood. No one, not one single person in my community, owns a coal burner.

[@McMillanScottish]

Cooking on an electric stove is definitely a skill set. Because it takes longer to heat up and cool down, you have to do things to compensate. But you can get good at it. I just personally hate it. Although, I will admit that those halogen infrared stoves or whatever they are that heat up really fast and cool down pretty fast too are definitely better, especially because of the flat glass surface that isn’t all wobbly like the old coils.

[@great-garden-watch]

Induction. Pretty popular in Europe. I love mine. You kinda can’t start a fire with them unless you boiled oil. The stove itself can’t cause a fire. You can put a paper towel under your pot as you cook if you want to for some reason.

[@cs5384]

When your education and experience is in the science field you don't "worship science" and think it's infallible, you look at the data and how it's presented and recognize that there's a difference in the link to a study done by a first year student with data offered through a Prolific academic poll and a long range lab contained observational study that may not be so simple as asking "do you have a gas stove and do you have memory problems?" How many studies do you need to feel something is worth regulating? We have studies from almost fifty years ago that show us something serious, something we really, really need to consider. Thirteen percent is a pretty convincing correlation. I look at studies like this all the time but with autism correlation. My concern is that they did indeed, no question, non arguing, find that these gas appliances DO emit some bad stuff... and yeah if you're in an overcroweded poorly ventilated apartment the best thing they CAN do is ban installation of gas stoves in the future. I'm more concerned with the potential cognitive issues and asthma than someone's desire to cook with gas. And we already know the methane is bad when it comes to the climate. WE KNOW THIS. It's not shaky science. It's not a maaaaybe. You don't NEED to cook with gas, although I appreciate the value in cooking, and prefer gas myself. Mostly because I've never cooked on electric! :)

[@philipptielmann]

I think induction is just very obviously by far the best stove option. it’s faster AND more responsive than gas. and ikea has really cheap ones. and it really barely heats up the stove itself.

[@jimbarino2]

I think you are mistaken about the origin of "natural gas". The gas that was originally used in gas lights was "coal gas", generated by a chemical process from coal. (interesting note: this process was also the first step in the Fischer-Tropsch process that was used in Germany to convert coal into diesel fuel during WWII) It was only later, after the advent of oil industry in the 1860s, that natural gas from wells was started to be piped to cities.

[@purplealice]

Coal gas contains carbon monoxide (which will burn) as well as methane. "Natural gas" can be lethal only because if it replaces air in an area, there'll be no oxygen to breathe.

[@chase_h.01]

Its funny that people think robots taking our jobs is a recent problem, but his story about his grandpa losing his jobs to machines just proves its been happening for way longer than we give credit to.

[@rickybryan1759]

The US experience with blackouts is so weird to me. Here in Australia we wouldn’t have a black out once a year and that’s like maybe 45 mins.

[@FinneasJedidiah]

In most places I've lived in the US I haven't had a blackout frequently at all. I've had 2 blackouts in the last 2 years, 1 was about 20 minutes and one was maybe 45 minutes. Before that I didn't have one for multiple years.

[@patrickcpe]

It’s not all of the US, it’s places with snow and crazy weather. And even then it’s maybe 2-3 hour power outs per year.

[@brandon9172]

Not that weird, we just have different climates. In my part of the U.S. we have rainforests and occassionally get cyclones and ice storms. Can't exactly prevent 60 foot trees from falling on power lines.

[@mrow7598]

How much of Australia is covered in thick forests? How large do your weather events gets? The east coast gets hurricanes that knock out power, the north gets snow storms, the mid west tornadoes, the west earth quakes, hurricanes and forest fires. Couple these storms with forests especially in the north, power can be down for weeks. In '98 the north east got covered in 2-3 inches of ice over night. Trees fell, transformers exploded, people were out of power for days and some weeks.

[@DennisSchmitz]

even that sounds weird to me. In Germany we have blackouts usually every 5-20 years.

[@frequentlycynical642]

Very few range hoods vent outdoors. Most just recirculate everything. Mine not only blows back, it blows right back into the new, upcoming smoke, thus negating any possible advantage. Unfortunately, Adam pretty much ignored the old resistance coil electrics vs. ceramic tops. I've spent most of my life cooking on those old open coil electrics and I find them far easier to cook with than gas or ceramic tops. They heat as fast as gas w/o all that heat running up the side of the pot. Ceramic tops, are so slow to heat or ccool.

[@kamoboko86]

The government has no right to tell us in what way we cook our food. The next step is to tell us if we can drive our own cars or not. We have been cooking with fire for a million years and it’s never been a problem…. So pointless…

[@lilstubthumb]

Oh they have a point. The point is more control over us peons.

[@jlastre]

As a statistician I don’t like to make public criticism on fields I’m not familiar. So I think Adam is wise to defer to those that are better qualified. Even if you’re in the field of statistics it’s so vast and the applied subject matter often unique it’s best to defer to those with experience in the field.

[@ariss3304]

Statisticians know how to create insights and test hypotheses, you need domain specialists to interpret the results.

[@jlastre]

@@ariss3304 It’s necessarily, not sufficient.

[@VexChoccyMilk]

The problem is that politicians use the equivalent of just reading the headline, in that they take the most recent published journal that agrees with their political stance and then USE THAT TO MAKE LEGALLY BINDING POLICY DECISIONS, without consulting further evidence or waiting for new evidence to materialize.

[@malcolm_in_the_middle]

The problem is politicians. No need to elaborate further.

[@mars7304]

Nah politicians aren't dumb they rely on headlines to trick the voters. They in all reality know what they're doing and it's most likely bc they were paid to do it.

[@FlyingBalcony]

Got really sick and bedbound for half a year after the shot, so happy you talked about it. Not all criticisms are in bad faith.

[@Furluge]

15:23 - Don't forget of course that natural gas electric generators are an option as an emergency power backup too. My parents got one to ensure medical devices would run consistently after they became fed up with the performance of battery backups. It's pretty nice to have the option to switch right over to natural gas to run electric appliances in an emergency.

[@SeattlePioneer]

Watch out for the exhaust gasses though! They can blow up against a house and allow carbon monoxide to infiltrate the house. A permanently installed gas back up generator ought to have those exhaust gasses vented well above the roof line.

[@irenechang2734]

Asthma is a bigger problem in cities with high density living and high traffic areas.

[@ChrisB...]

I got low-level CO poisoning from a gas furnace in an apartment I rented (no CO detector at the time), so yea this is important to me. Carbon Monoxide that doesn't kill you still destroys cells and organs.

[@David-ln8qh]

@John McAlister I heard your collar pop from miles away.

[@ursusAmericanus]

My favorite part of the gas stove discourse is DeSantis pouncing on the opportunity to push more culture war bs when like 15% of Florida households actually have a gas stove. It's all just part of the grift

[@mars7304]

DeSantis wants his face on every single issue Republicans will be mad at this year to better his chances at running for president in 2024.

[@scottwillie6389]

I'm sure you say the same thing about black people (14.5% of FL population), right? Or does a standing up for a minority group only cease to be humorous when it happens to align with your existing prejudices?

[@ursusAmericanus]

@@scottwillie6389 I'm sorry but for my own sanity I refuse to believe you're trying to make a genuine argument here. If you are, then good lord has our education system failed you if you genuinely think gas stove owners experience literally any form of oppression, let alone anything comparable to what black people have been forced to go through for the entirety of this country's history

[@Bash70]

You act like it's only the right making this into a culture war bs. Maybe, just maybe there's those on the left who are enabling this sort of bs as well?

[@ursusAmericanus]

@@Bash70 I wouldn't say you're entirely wrong, but I would also question the motives of anyone claiming to be on the left or to care about progressive causes who decides to die on the gas stove hill. In the end, like Adam essentially said, this has all been blown way out of proportion and there's way more important issues in the world to worry about

[@realkacy]

Good ventilation to outside should take care of most of the issues. In general, good air quality is quality of life. We have a very tight house and need an ERV to get fresh air inside. Our hood vents to the outside with makeup air close to the stove. Rather gas, we use induction (speed of gas plus easy cleaning). For our house, a gas stove likely would not have been a good fit since I would not expect that all the CO2 would make it to the outside based on air quality monitor readings that sense some VOC increase in the 2nd floor during cooking. I think awareness and education is better than legislature.

[@LowPolyPixel]

When I bought my house the estate agent told me that the stove top was induction which I was excited about. However upon using it I discovered it was a heated coil electric hob. Anyway, a few months ago it packed itself in and at that point I had to replace it and now I have a shiny induction hob which I am very happy with.

[@gurusmurf5921]

This is the best bit I've seen on this issue to date. Information based and free of alarmism in either direction. Thank you.

[@kisikisikisi]

I do wonder what we're doing right here in Europe. I know exactly one household with a gas stove here. Sure, when the electricity was out for days one christmas there was no using the stove, but we're Finnish, so country people either have a fireplace, a sauna, or both.

[@LadyCatFelineTheSeventh]

Europe is sheep central. You will do exactly what you are told and never question it. You will lose your culture, religion, even ethnicity because you were told to. You are pathetic.

[@kisikisikisi]

@@LadyCatFelineTheSeventh as opposed to an internet nazi lmaooooo

[@TheOwenMajor]

Doing right? Well you live in smaller houses, make less, and have higher living expenses, and can afford less. But serfs like being serfs. The master's whip is oddly addicting to some.

[@RandomDudeOne]

@@TheOwenMajor Scandinavians live longer, healthier, happier lives than just about any other people. But at least you have your bigger house.

[@kisikisikisi]

@@TheOwenMajor Finland beats the U.S. in basically all barometers that matter. Health, safety, education, happiness. But sure, enjoy your gas stove in you large house with walls made of paper.

[@mason8920]

Thanks for covering this. I was super confused about why this became an issue.

[@CBMX_GAMING]

Conservative politics have won so completely and thoroughly in America that they have nothing left to do but endlessly antagonize people who annoy them slightly as the world they insisted on building slowly crumbles and burns around us

[@altalty6023]

It's not. This is almost an entire hour of cope because his new house has no gas hookup. Electricucks are pathetic.

[@nadogrl]

It’s not an issue, other than the “Powers That Be” wanting more control.

[@HaydenRHN]

@@altalty6023 did you watch the video? he has a gas stove

[@satagaming9144]

@@nadogrl The issue isn't that it's marginally worse to have a gas stove, the issue is that it's turned into a "we should just make it illegal then" debate. Building codes should cover this, just specify a certain level of ventilation for gas stoves. If we lived in a country that was remotely capable of having constructive discourse, it really wouldn't be an issue. There is just willful, head-in-sand ignorance on both sides. Nobody wants to truly understand the other side, they want to feel correct.

[@WhiskyCanuck]

I fairly recently discovered that a lot of people, particularly in the USA but elsewhere too, have range hoods that don't exhaust to the outdoors, usually just drawing air through a carbon filter (generally ineffective & rarely cleaned or replaced) and then blown back into the kitchen. That's something that seems like it should be required to be present in new construction, and it's presence would probably mitigate a lot of the indoor air quality concerns with using gas stoves - or with burning a meal.

[@barvdw]

I've had the two. My previous apartment didn't have an exhaust, just filters. It was a new kitchen in a townhouse-turned-multiple-apartments, so the space was not intended as kitchen. My current apartment is a newly built condo complex, with the exhaust inserted in the ventilation shaft.

[@Shellyshocked]

I have a glass top stove, and I love it. I worry about my little one running up and trying to put her hand on it, so when I'm done cooking I take a warm wet rag and run it over the burners, wetting it periodically to cool the burners down quicker. Just don't use cold water until the burners have cooled enough. I also do that to get any grease off the surface of the stove while the burners are still hot.

[@sameoldsteph]

Really well done. Thank you for this thoughtful, level headed, clear and thoroughly researched approach!

[@petexian]

As we gather more information and learn new relevant information we learn and the scientific community learns and adapts. Making decisions based on factual date is always better when we make informed decisions. Keeping the air clean in our homes in order to keep everyone healthy seems to be the real underlying point of this issue.

[@jmunt]

On an individual level I absolutely agree, but on a political policy level, the problem is there’s often more than one way valid way to interpret facts and data. As Adam explained there are scenarios where gas is worse and scenarios where it is better, and different people care about different scenarios. Almost everyone believes their opinions are based on facts and that those who disagree with them must not be making a decision based on facts. But it’s not that simple. Maybe someone knows all the factors but they experience blackouts frequently so they care more about the benefits of gas for those scenarios, where clean water is higher priority than cleaner air. Maybe having a gas stove would literally save their life. Maybe someone else never experiences blackouts so they care more about the clean air benefits of electric. Maybe a gas stove would harm them. Knowing facts, or even knowing all the facts, doesn’t mean there exists one answer that is best for everyone. Sometimes there is, but not always.