Arcane Actually Might Be Too Pretty For Its Own Good

[@Hamza-rd6jk]

Oh man I HEAVILY disagree with you here. Arcane is pushing the limits of what animation (both 2D and 3D) can do. As an artist myself, I've rewatched every episode multiple times just so I can appreciate all the little things that make it one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen. There is so much effort and love in every frame and I appreciate the passion of the animators so much. I would MUCH rather give the artists time to flex their creativity than push to release seasons faster.

[@Despoina_Nyx]

Yeah some shows are amazing for pushing the boundaries. The problem is that is not sustainable. The main problem is that pacingwise the narrative would had benefitted from 1-2 more seasons. Not saying it's bad, it's doing an amazing work with how constrained it is in time. But like this quality is not some I could expect for a long series, at least not yet, not until the pipeline is fully perfected and streamlined. I'm already impressed that there is 2 seasons is mighty surprising. But you bet if it wasn't for the mighty deep pockets Riot and if I'm not mistaken it's owner tencent. This series would not exist.

[@AndrewFrancisIlyrian]

What? An Arcane fanboy refuses to accept perfectly reasonable criticism for his overrated animation demo? I'M SHOCKED!!!

[@fndmaioli]

I can see how your opinions come from your different backgrounds. Savage himself said he is the "story guy", if he could get a bit more story as tradeoff for a small drop in animation he would take it, and I'm with him there, I'm also that guy. And you come from your artist background, paying attention to every detail in the animation, I simply don't have the eye to appreciate all those details nor the interest in rewatching the episodes looking for them, because while watching I unintentionally focus so much in the story that I miss most details like that.

[@kaksspl]

@@AndrewFrancisIlyrian No reason to be an ass.

[@jeremias-serus]

@@fndmaioli I am both the art & story guy. While it has been a complete treat to see Arcane's drop-dead gorgeous production (I have already done tens of composition analyses), frankly, I would just prefer a guaranteed masterclass narrative. As far as Arcane is concerned, finishing it off with nearly the same treatment as S1 is only fair. But for future Riot x Fortiche productions, I do hope there is a drop in the resources allocated to art side and more put toward story... is what I originally typed out. But then I thought for a little while longer. Honestly I'm very conflicted. I do believe all of that above paragraph; but a small, selfish part of me does want more amazing visual feats. It's selfish because if your production only focuses on the art and cares less about the story, only us insane art people will care and the masses won't watch. If the masses won't watch then the investors won't make money back and then we art lovers won't get any more good art. It's autodefeatist on the level of anti-natalism. But think of it like this, very few works are as art heavy as Arcane--it's a real rarity. It's more rare to have a masterpiece of art than a masterpiece of story, simply historically speaking. So why not milk as many out of Riot as we can, while we can? We can get fantastic stories with average visuals elsewhere and later on. It's exceedingly selfish, I know. But these two thoughts have been clashing in my mind for a while now and I'm not quite sure how I really feel.

[@LaneGamesYT]

Personally, I want to prioritize the artists themselves and the work they are making. If it takes them 3 years to make top tier art, then thats fine with me. If they rush it, and the work suffers then I'm not okay with that. We've seen billions shows, movies, anime, whatever else suffer massively from being undercooked. I'd rather sacrifice time than quality. But even more important than that, I don't want to sacrifice the artists well being. JJK season 2 was beautiful, but the hell the Mappa employees went through to get it was inexcusable and not worth any amount of quality or speed.

[@Yueff]

I think a good example of what you’re trying to convey is the fact I could probably pick out an amazing desktop wallpaper from like every minute of Arcane. THAT isn’t necessary. It’s AMAZING, just not exactly sustainable.

[@teraxe]

@@Yueff virtually every frame is gorgeous. And I love it.

[@chickensalad3535]

It was necessary for it to be the masterpiece that it is.

[@teraxe]

Isha has been in Season 2 longer than Grayson, Benzo, Mylo, Claggor or Vander were in Season 1. No one thought they were rushed. I think the issue is that she has no lines so it is harder for people to connect with her.

[@andylozano5193]

To me it’s clear she’s nonverbal. At first I thought she may be partially deaf but the. i was like “nav she hears too well non-verbal ok”. But Isha in episode 4 gets an active choice she makes separate from Jinx.

[@teraxe]

@@andylozano5193 Yeah that is why she doesn't have any lines...

[@THETYMEKK12]

It actually made me connect to her more. She's more of a force.

[@teraxe]

@@THETYMEKK12 I am sure it does for some people. But it really seems like for most people the lack of her having speaking lines makes it harder for them to connect.

[@phantomkitten73]

Y'all ever see Blue Eye Samurai? Animated series with incredible storytelling and beautiful, fluid animation. Yet it costs like a quarter of what Arcane cost because it wasn't perfectionist with the texture of the animation. Fortiche could definitely achieve something like that to be able to give us a series that can spend a bit more time exploring consequences. I hope we get a LoL series that pacing wise is like the Better Call Saul to Arcane's Breaking Bad.

[@troikas3353]

It's very pretty. But it's also a pretty bog standard revenge story and its characters are no where near as well realized. Especially the villains. The richness of Arcanes animation allows it to do so much more with the characterization without needing it to be exposited in dialogue.

[@tylerreed2409]

I think ultimately though Arcane doing this is how the medium moves forward so that the processes that allow for shows like Blue Eye Samurai to exist without being incredibly expensive. If some companies don't act as perfectionists pushing the medium forward then the skills and processes to just make something competent but not insane in value won't proliferate.

[@tylerreed2409]

​@troikas3353 I think calling it a bog standard revenge story is a bit silly. Every basic story has been told, so the question is not how novel it is, but instead whether or not the execution is good. So far the execution on Blue Eye Samurai is fantastic. Better than what we got of Warwick this season. So I don't think this is a fair critique of the show.

[@CloudMountainJuror]

Act 2's pacing was about perfect for me - it resulted in maybe my favorite section of the show, and one of the most investing and chill-inducing TV viewing experiences I've had. I can see the concern over how they'll wrap in 3 episodes, but I can see it being done, and I don't think they would have planned it this way if they couldn't finish it properly, especially when they've cared so much about every other aspect of the show and have been able to largely live up to it until now.

[@tristanslambert652]

I hear people talk about this, and this and that which was what the dip in quality and im just here saying that the writing choices and directions fell flat, especially from the momentum of S1. theres plenty of beautiful moments, but the things that tie them all together, the writing direction, didn't do it justice

[@fionnathehuman6610]

I highly disagree. I don’t want a show to put in less effort so that they can produce seasons faster. I will wait for quality and it was definitely worth the wait.

[@DashielG-vn5ji]

Quality over Quantity 🔥

[@ClayborneJames]

It feels like Arcane Season 2 is trying an impossible task to use negative narrative space to keep the audience engaged while telling a compelling story. I find it interesting, look how much freedom the audience has to tell their own story on how characters time skip to certain elements. It is uncomfortable because we are use to having the story told to us rather than encouraging us to fill it in with our own feelings. That being said, I share concerns. Can this be pulled off well? If so, it could help this story telling method find more ground. If it fails, we will be told stories like a realism painting rather than feeling parts of the story like expressionism painting. Perhaps my glasses are a tint to rosy.

[@serpico1252]

The problem with letting the audience fill in so many of the blanks is that often this leads to absurdly high expectations about the outcome of the story as a whole. I think this is what many of us are feeling about Arcane right now.

[@ClayborneJames]

@@serpico1252 Fair opinion. I am still loving the story and I do not feel I am missing character development. I will agree, the number of negative narrative space elements puts a lot of responsibility on the viewer. Not everyone will accept it, in part or in full. Caitlyn's rebound with a lower level office was the hardest for me to accept, until I figured the show wanted me to see her decline from a "proper" office to someone using abusing position to fill a void. My dirty secret is I accidently watched it out of order. I watched 5 and 6 before I realized I missed episode 4. I felt fulfilled after watching 6 and realized I already figured out most of the stuff in episode 4 in my head, except for the rebound. The rest, just made narrative sense to me. I couldn't write it as well as they could have but I got the picture and I still felt the emotional highs of the moments they wanted to show me. I really hope there is a behind the scenes or directors notes on the choices made for the story. I would love to learn the writers' thoughts.

[@valdenay7264]

Honestly I like when a shoe or movie trusts it's audience to remember things from last season, catch non-verbal cues, and time skips for negative space. That tells me they are confident that innit worth as art, something to be digested, thought & talked about. Admired & critiqued.

[@lucaspsm125]

hard disagree, I think this new season was worth every single second of waiting, just like I am pretty sure (really don't want to jinx it) Spiderverse 3 will be worth all the years of waiting too. The animation that Fortiche has put out is beyond awe-inducing and, as an animator, it's the type of media that motivates and inspires me to no end, it makes me feel like everything can be possible in this medium

[@War5aw]

I was initially on the opinion of "The critic is valid but where do you start? What metric of beauty to reduce do we abide by?" then I hear that there was a scene ENTIRELY HAND DRAWN IN CHARCOAL and i realize "ok, we can start by having less of that perhaps..."

[@Crelixal]

I feel like even act 1 was way too rushed. (Act 1 Spoilers incoming) Cait’s development in that 1st episode felt unreasonably quick with her decent into authoritarianism based on her prior characterization as an empathetic person. Vi’s acceptance of the aggression against the people of Zaun really needed some more conversations to flesh out. It was mind boggling to me that she was okay with what she was doing. Jayce was the most pivotal person in getting a peace treaty in motion with Zaun and avoiding the use of hextech to save innocent Zaunites. Now he doesn’t even attend council meetings and makes hextech to invade Zaun in just the first episode. Heimerdinger not having anything to say about the state of the council and the use of hextech weapons feels like a missed opportunity. I feel like these characters could have gotten to where they are now with time, but there is so much writing missing that if feels either rushed or completely unjustified. It really makes me sad having seen where this season has gone from a writing standpoint 😢

[@Shdhdhdhd]

Not to mention Heimer was kicked off the council he created by Jayce and they don't even mention it. I don't expect them to hate each other or anything, but just one line of dialouge acknowledging it would have done a lot to make it feel less rushed/contrived

[@troikas3353]

@@Shdhdhdhd That was acknowledged in its own entire scene back in S1.

[@valdenay7264]

A lot of your points are told visually & with score. Not everything has to be a conversation

[@mechcannon]

Cait becoming an authoritarian dictator. Then immediately in like an episode being back with Vi. Timeskips are not an excuse for constantly leaping forward to unrecognisable states one jump at a time. Not exploring anything they do or make important. It’s a fucking mess obscured by fancy animation, banger tracks and good VA work.

[@Drahko12]

I love this, having finished arcane I feel the show either needed a 6 episode act 2 arc or extend each episode from 39 min to 60 min. Without spoiling too much the pacing of the show was too much for me and the ending while ok in closing most of the plot lines was not satisfying to me for the closure of some of the characters. I will add the last bit I see your point and agree that if the level of perfectionism drops a bit in exchange of efficient and quick releases while keeping the story quality it can work. I do wish the show had more time or episodes or make a 3rd season. I think overall Arcane S2 sits between 7-8 and S1 went from 8 to a 9 since the first season story arc felt more properly paced and easier to follow without any rush, the second season to me branched out too much the many plot lines.

[@gakeon963]

I'm not a LoL player, so everything is fresh and new to me. And season 2 feels really rushed, as it feels like everyone is in the know except for me. The way some relationships skip build up, talking about Cait's but also Jinx and the kid, makes it really difficult to comprehend how much time has past. I had this problem a little bit with S1, but that felt more cohesive. The timeskip is well done and makes you feel like ages have past, and then the season takes place over a few days or weeks. I have no clue how much time is suppose to past between, but also during, episodes. Does everything take place in a few weeks or multiple months? How long was Viktor in, you know. And how long did it take for him to get where he is in episode 6? I'm trying to avoid spoilers but i hope people get what i mean.

[@benl2140]

Caitlyn's relationship with (spoiler) didn't come "a little bit" out of nowhere. It came completely out of nowhere. Like, I'm pretty sure they said fewer than 5 sentences to each other in the first 3 episodes.

[@gamerbot47]

Well, even the thumbnail isn't "PERFECT"

[@micahrichards8396]

Wish they would make a Love, Death and Robots Style Anthology of League Stories

[@Strix2031]

I agree tbh, personally i value story over presentation i think Arcane manages the landing on both fronts but this stuff takes so much time and money that the production might be encouraged to take shortcuts and cram story where it needs more time to breathe. I dont mind Ishas as much as i mind the final 2 episodes, i dont feel like Jinx,Ekko,Jayce and Viktor where given nearly enough time to deal with whatever they had to do in those last 2 episodes. Arcane is still a 10/10 for me but it couldve been a perfect masterpiece if they had just a little more time to cook, 1 or 2 more episodes.

[@alexiavya722]

was there an epilepsy warning on these episodes? I don’t have that, but holy crap I genuinely get a headache from the animations in season 2.

[@zionleach3001]

I've barely gotten started and have failed at avoiding spoilers. One thing I dislike about new shows is how rushed they've been. During quarantine so many shows got axed cause they were rushed story wise. It ruins the endings of so many shows cause the writer is only focusing on JUST ending it. Ex; Evil.

[@agustincheong9086]

Two things I want to comment: - This isn't Hollywood. The animation studio is french, so the idiosincracy could be different. That could explain the more consistent approach. - There won't be ANY more "Arcane". There will be other series, within the same universe. This give you a lot of flexibility. New projects don't NEED to be animated in the same style/level of perfection because they don't necessarily carry the name baggage. They may need to keep consistency within the projects that they plan to connect long term (and not really). But they can also go full "Love, death and robots" and have every different region be animated completely different, which may help or may backfire loudly. But it can also accelerate things. Just an idea.

[@lydiagrafton8481]

The animation is what sets it apart from all other animated shows. It wouldn’t be near as good without all the nuances that you can see in the current animation.

[@AndrewFrancisIlyrian]

So? How was the ending? Did you like seeing all these characters dying for no reason? Did you like seeing character development thrown out the window? Was it fun? If not, did the boring ass clay animation make up for it? Come on, folks! I wanna know

[@SaberRexZealot]

I’m going nuclear and saying this season is almost as rushed as Game of Thrones was. When I finished watching I was more bewildered than anything. I felt like I didn’t get the time to actually process any of it. It’s overstimulating.

[@teun_snijder8856]

The amazing but not perfect thumbnail is quite ironic in retrospect. If you know, you know.

[@john80944]

I think the critique of S2 can have a more distinctive characters arecd is valid. But it's also because Arcane's visual ist just too good. Everything is too refined and detailed, it relied on people to rewatch it in order to understand many character developments.

[@NiteOwl2000]

I felt like the Isha stuff was fine, I wish we had spent more time with Viktor and his cult. They were so creepy and fascinating. I need to know what Jayce saw.

[@alazarielanderson5367]

I think this is totally valid even if i personally disagree. Because me, myself isolated from the machinations of how the entertainment industry works, i feel like i could wait forever for something of the quality of Arcane. Its partially why i don't care if we don't get Beyond The Spiderverse for another 4 years. I want that movie to land PERFECTLY given what we got in the first two films. But it simply doesn't work like that, as you said. Hollywood moves QUICK. Quick enough for Suicide Squad to bomb then get a remake in like... 2 years? And outside of parts of the Arcane team moving on, or intrest in the IP maybe dropping to the point of all projects being canceled, what if something happens to me? Us? Anybody? People are gonna change and pass on in that long wait so like. Yea, i FEEL like i could wait forever, but what if a satellite suddenly fails and falls out of the sky and crushes my house? Or i get eaten by a jaguar? Then ìm gonna miss BTSV and that shit would be tragic. So yea, you're probably right.

[@tesphoenix2020]

Hey really silly question here but where can i watch your streams?

[@Joe_Dax]

Its great people here dont mind waiting up to four years for 9 episodes, but does anyone really think Riot is okay with that?

[@nevetstrevel4711]

Man the last 2 episodes really sucked. I'm so sad it is late stage game of thrones territory

[@psypsy751]

Look, I agree with the points but at the end of the day you can't ask artists to not make it as pretty as they can. They are, ultimately, artist animators, those are the muscles they'll flex, not the writing. The writing is the icing, not the other way around.

[@serpico1252]

Sure the animation is fire and the main draw of Arcane, but the story is what holds it all together. It's similar to the situation with Zack Snyder. His visuals are amazing but people clown on his movies because the stories are generic and often poorly constructed. If Season 1 had suffered from poor writing Arcane wouldn't have attracted such a large audience. People who had never played Lol (like me) became invested in these characters and their stories because they were compelling and the story was engaging. This is why Season 2 had massive anticipation and expectations. If this season ends badly (which I don't think it will) people who are not that into Lol might not come back for another spin-off.

[@upg5147]

Can't agree with that. The art without the story has no depth, no greater pull. It's beautiful and I'll still look at it with my mouth wide open, but it won't keep me coming back.

[@gcswift2]

Someone on the web said "Arcane Season 2 is rushed/ bad pacing" and everyone latched on to that sentiment. It's not. Efficient? Yes. Rushed? No. Do you, the viewer, have to WATCH and PAY ATTENTION? Absolutely. My problem is that Arcane will be over too soon. I want more. I want seven seasons of this, but at this rate, that would take 20 years. I wish they could ensure this Super High Quality with a quick turnaround of one year. Unfortunately, That would require an Army of animators, writers, and probably a small city's total computing power to render. All that would make it TOO EXPENSIVE to produce.

[@AndrewFrancisIlyrian]

Arcane fanboy not slobber over its overratedness challenge: impossible

[@fndmaioli]

No. I also thought the pacing was too fast, and reached that conclusion before looking at any social media. I just wanted it to be more slow, develop more the characters that were introduced to support the protagonists, and maybe develop more the time skip. Still my favorite show, it's amazing, I'm sure they can wrap it up in a good way, but I usually prefer slower stories.

[@kaksspl]

Didn't find anyone's opinion about it. I just came to the same conclusion. The show would've benefited from a couple more episodes at least. Some elements feel out of nowhere and some feel forced. People are able to formulate their own opinions.

[@upg5147]

I think about it this way. The story will only be consumed as it comes out ONE time. Be that weekly releases or multi year waits for the next part of the story. After that, it's all up to the consumer. If I found Arcane in a year and never knew about it, I could watch season 1 and 2 in one night or over a week or a month or a year. People forget that stuff isn't just made in the moment and that is all that matters. The art is now forever in the world and will never again be consumed the same way everyone had to consume it unless the consumer wants to do it that way (for some reason).

[@psydrone8]

I have the total opposite opinion; the story is standard drama ultra elevated by the perfect animation, without it the show is nothing

[@foamingclean596]

I think the animation and art in season 2 has taken a step up, but the writing has kinda fallen off. There's a good amount of stuff I just groan at. Still think it's good but it feels sloppy unless they can pull off some next level stuff.

[@CzarsSalad]

Finish the series first before doing this clickbait videos

[@Joe_Dax]

What's the clickbait? The shows pacing in this season has been frantic. Personally, I think they're trying to set up storylines for another show, but who knows

[@mechcannon]

Arcane Season 2 is a fucking mess. I still like it but it’s dogshite compared to the first season in anything but the wicked animation