Arches vs. Saunders Waterford vs. Fabriano Artistico - watercolor papers comparison

Hey, this is Goldhand Drawings, Today's video is about
water color papaers comparison
I think I 've pick the most popular 3 watercolor papers people like to use.
They all have their won unique characteristics so watch the video and see
which one will suites you the most
Thanks and best,
Jun

[@yvonnetanner7890]

I don't think you mentioned it, but Fabriano uses a completely vegan sizing rather than the traditional animal one. Arches and SW use gelatin. I have found that all the papers differ when using the block or pad vs full sized sheets.

[@MrQuuze]

how they differ in sheets. someone sayed to me artistico is better in blocks. hard belive but i maybe test sheets someday even storing sheets is very hard.

[@nelli.7622]

Sorry for interfering. I keep the sheets in a huge transfer folder. it does not take up space against the wall and its appearance is decent. I also use silica gel packets.

[@greekveteran2715]

These are all facts! Sheets are way higher quality, than the papers they put into the pads. Mould made paper, like the mould made Hahnemuhle, is WAY better, than the papers shown on this video!

[@CarolinaCarolina-ph9mx]

Thank you for this video. It was interesting for me to see how these papers performed in a side-by-side comparison, and the tests you were doing were basic things that even beginners could do, so you did fine even if you aren't a watercolorist. In fact, it is this most basic information that I wanted. I am very tempted by the Saunders because I love paint that spreads out, and it did so in the most gorgeous way. However, someone below commented that it doesn't retain those properties in long-term storage, which is a real bummer. If that is the case, then I am going to stick with Arches. The Fabriano tests were helpful here, too. I have bought it, and I didn't really like it, but I couldn't put my finger on why. I didn't do any side-by-side comparisons like you did here, I just avoided it. Now, I would take it over a whole lot of alternatives (including the Baohong Academy that people are pushing these days. I'll take a hard pass on that paper), but if I can buy Arches instead, then I will. Or maybe Saunders. I was really excited about the Saunders, so I am going to have to google around some and try to get the scoop on what is happening there. Thank you again for doing these tests because it was truly helpful. 😊

[@penpencilpaint]

hi there, thanks for watching and glad my video was helpful in some way 😀🙃😊

[@CarolinaCarolina-ph9mx]

@@penpencilpaint It was very helpful, and very much appreciated. I'm also sorta kicking myself for not doing similar tests when I had Fabriano paper - which I won't have anymore now. 😆 Also, in case you may not have seen, my questions about the Saunders paper were answered in that the unpainted paper may lose its properties over time (possibly, the sizing may go bad), but if it has already been painted on, the painting won't change. I had the poster's comment twisted up, and was worrying that an already painted sheet might change somehow (other than light exposure), but that wasn't it. Whew. 😂 I really, really appreciate the video where you tested that Baohong Academy paper because my fingers had been hoovering over the buy button a few too many times due to hearing so many rave reviews from others. That first box showed it is clearly not my paper. I do wonder, however, as I think about it, if it might not have had a better spread if about half as much paint had been used? It would be lighter, certainly, but maybe it would have a little more life? And maybe that is how others are using it? Every so often, I want cauliflowers, and I don't know that paper can pull them off. Saunders definitely can make some gorgeous ones, but the paper may not have aged well. Argh. Arches it is - and I will be grateful for that! Thank you your time and efforts here, they were appreciated. 🙂

[@nkguenther1]

Thank you. I just used Fabriano Artístico for first time today. Really takes getting used to. Dries quickly and I’m having to work hard getting my paint to do what I want but getting better as I get used to it. I think my wet in wet looks patchy and I’m getting blooms trying to fix patchiness. I use Arches a lot but it’s a bit too textured for my liking. Saunders Waterford I like but the glue on their blocks is terrible. You’re better off just taping it down. You are spot on about sketching. If I do a sketch on Saunders and come back the next day, I can barely see the sketch. It’s like it gets sucked into the paper so I sketch a bit darker now. My favorite paper is Hahnemühle The Collection. Love the texture and it’s brighter than Arches. Great for any kind of painting.

[@MrQuuze]

i used mainly Fabriano Artistico and recently added papers what i like Hahnemühle The Collection. to me actually some stay too long wet but i bet depends your paper history what you prefer.

[@jennw6809]

KZbin knows I love watercolor paper comparison videos 🙂 Great comparison of three premium papers. Arches makes Bright White! I'm in the USA, I can get it easily here. Keep looking (try Jackson's if nothing else!) It was great to hear your thoughts on sketching on all three papers. This is a test most people don't do. I've heard some prefer to paint on the back of Arches in terms of texture, I wonder if it feels better to draw on the back? I've been using the new Hahnemuhle cotton watercolor books, and I also feel the paper is "bouncy" or maybe "puffy" -- I don't like how it feels to a pencil. I'd never thought much about that before! But you're so right, it's not just about the paper texture, but about how "deep" the paper feels as you sketch or write. Arches - you are right, the paper paints beautifully, but my issue is how it develops waves when you paint wet on wet, and just taping it to a board doesn't help. It required stretching for me. Same with Fabriano, and yes, the performance is a bit worse (and from what I hear it's quite inconsistent). I realize this is why blocks are so popular, but the paper is so expensive compared to loose sheets. Additionally, I see that a lot of people have trouble with the Arches blocks falling apart. That seems inconceivable, considering how much of that black pad glue they put on it 🤣 but it does seem to be an issue. No way am I paying triple price for a block just to have it all fall apart and not work anyway! As far as the covers -- I hate the Arches less - it seems to have been designed in Art Noveau times and not changed since? But I like Art Noveau. The color combo on the Fabriano paper covers really turns me off. In my tests, Saunders seems to do better at staying flat while painting, although I must admit I haven't painted much on it. I only have had some samples and a Fat Pad sketchbook, but it has that ivory colored paper, so I've been saving it for a landscape class I'm trying to get around to or taking on trips. I would like to try their loose sheets, but I've had trouble obtaining them in Bright White. First they were twice the price, and now they're constantly out of stock! My personal favorites are Lanaquarelle, and Hahnemuhle The Collection. I guess Hahnemuhle owns the Lana mill now. I have tried both blocks and loose sheets of these and they are both lovely. The Collection comes in a pad similar to the Arches pad, which is quite reasonably priced here in the US. Hey have you tried Baohong? It's all the rage here in the USA. Are there any Korean watercolor papers?

[@penpencilpaint]

hi there / thanks for watching my video, I didn't know arches have bright white!!! that is a great news : )))) I think my painting style (at least now) is heavily relying on sketch works so I am pretty sensitive on pencil and pen reacting with paper : ) I am guessing it will be better to draw on back side of arches paper since the front texture will be rougher, yes, i agree, hahnemuhle paper is bouncy. which i dont prefer : ( fabriano = i think it has some hard edge lines as we paint, maybe that's why you think the performance is low compared to arches or saunders. I think i still hate the arches cover design hahahaha I dont even tape it down, since i like the paper to ripple and warp, ( it kindda gives it's character ) + also looks vintage since it is warped : ) I have a video comparing arches and baohong, it might give to an idea how the baohong works I think there are some korean watercolor papers but it really sucks, dont even think about using it (waste of money even though it is affordable)

[@jennw6809]

@@penpencilpaint thanks I will definitely watch that video!

[@jennw6809]

Oh, forgot to mention, I will have to paint on my Saunders soon and observe the water absorbing more slowly - I know that there's a range of preference about how "hard" a paper is sized. And I think in the UK, some prefer the harder sizing (there's a famously hard-sized paper called Milford made at the same mill as Saunders). Also, I've tried some Bockingford -- that paper is quite well-loved in the UK, despite being made of wood pulp. But it also definitely has the effect of keeping the water on the surface longer. I think you're absolutely right about the kind of painting people like to do on it, and that style is also very popular in the UK. The harder sized paper makes it possible to leave a lot of "flying white," to borrow a Sumi term. It's apparently excellent for painting snow. Hahnemuhle makes a huge range of papers (confusingly large, really!) and they range from hard-sized like Expression, to softer like The Collection, and even unsized paper like Turner.

[@penpencilpaint]

Saunders definitely makes water and paint spread fast and far. (at least thats how i felt, including baohong). flying white = noted, thanks : )

[@mnap1595]

Unsized watercolor paper?! That has to be a nightmare to work with.

[@AlexM-ug7vk]

Permanent hands in the frame are superfluous

[@greekveteran2715]

You should try either the Hahnemuhle Mould made sheets, or the Hahnemuhle Collection paper!! Best paper quality by far! (better than Arches, best in the world) My only complain with watercolors, is that te paints are VERY expensive here in Greece. 16$ for a tiny tube of paint, makes it difficult to enjoy this hobby,,

[@FlidaisPeridotEyes]

I stopped using artistico because after some time I started getting problems like the paint didn't get absorbed and dry evenly anymore. It was patchy. So I switched to moulin du roy which I LOVE but I was the only one lol so they discontinued it, although it sometimes turned out patchy but it was the film on top so preparing with water helped. I now use Waterford but I love sketching a lot and using colored pencils and I didn't know that it might be less good to sketch with. I might have to go back to artistico and give it another chance because it might be better made again.

[@M0odyBlue]

I don’t like the sizing they use on the Fabriano and am wondering if they changed their formula because I don’t remember it behaving this way. The extra white Artistico block I purchased behaved more like a paper that was not 100% cotton, with glazes disturbing the dry layer and color just sitting on top of the paper in some areas and in others, sinking in and changing the texture of the paper. It was disappointing. I may try pulling the paper off of the block and soaking and stretching it.

[@M123Xoxo]

Fabriano announced they changed their sizing formula in July 2021. It used to be gelatin based and is now vegan/plant based sizing. They also said they did something to make pigment easier to lift for highlights, but that would probably mean glazing is more difficult because the under layer will lift.

[@M0odyBlue]

@@M123Xoxo Not a fan.

[@MrsBarnabas]

Paper: I was / still am really sad to find all the downbeat comments across ArtTube about the new sizing in the Artistico. I've used the rough for landscape (plein air) for many years, and my last purchase was just before they released the 'new, improved (?????) version, so I haven't tried it yet. I prefer the Saunders Waterford NOT for still life, as I don't like the grain of the Artistico NOT for this. However, the grain of Saunders Waterford Rough doesn't suit my way of working for landscape. It's too regular. As a result, I've used both papers, different grains, for over 25 years! I did try Arches, but it really didn't work for me. I think these things all depend on our way of working, and this is such an individual thing that what we really need to do is to do sample testing for ourselves, and not just accept one or two reviews, or the constant drone of ArtTubers who seem to think that no other paper can match the Almighty Arches. It really _doesn't_ work for everyone! Reviews are helpful, but only if they come out of an artist's experience with the papers - for example, I'd have liked it if over time, you'd already done a few paintings using each of these papers, and included those findings in the video. And having watched several review videos, using different papers in the comparisons, _we need to try them for ourselves._ I've been testing out various different watercolour papers with my students, and if I have to stop using Artistico, the one I'm most likely to switch to will be either Hahnemühle 'The Collection' or Lanaquarelle, but first of all, I'll use the paper I already have in stock, and do some more work on these two as well. However, whether or not my students think these will work for them will be their own choice. Incidentally, the white of watercolour paper is achieved by *bleaching.* (I did a lot of research when these came out, and they all came back with the same answer. They have said that it won't affect the life of the paper. 🤔 I have tried both, but still prefer the off-white. I've never had an issue with colour vibrancy, and as I do plein air, a bright white paper just is too bright on a sunny day (yes, I've tried it)! Even if this were not so, _it matters from an ecological point of view._ I don't like it that they are using bleach - which, of course, finds its way into the water courses after it has served its purpose with the paper-making And the very reason that these paper mills are situated on these watercourses is for the purity of the water at the point of intake!!! Sorry this is very long, especially as this is the first of your videos I've seen, and yes, I did enjoy seeing your side-by-side testing, and yes, it was helpful - thanks! 😊

[@warpedweft9004]

I think your response is exactly right! I too do not like Arches for any of my work, but the point is, we select our paper depending on our style, so what suits one doesn't suit another. It's unfair then for people to say a particular brand is rubbish. it's not, just not suited to their style, which you pointed out.

[@MrsBarnabas]

@@warpedweft9004 Thank you for reading my very ;long comment, and for this encouragement!

[@rtb03791]

Was all the paper test on cold pressed or hot pressed

[@penpencilpaint]

hi, cold pressed

[@srlovinap]

When you say, "bouncy," do you mean the pencil bounces because of the "bumpiness"of the paper's texture?

[@penpencilpaint]

hi there, when i said bouncy, the paper itself had some cushioning, so thats why i said it was bit bouncy 😊

[@mnap1595]

Arches now offers Extra White for some of their paper and, assuming front and back are equally sized, the back of the CP paper, at least, is quite smooth. I'm torn between these three and Hahnemuhle - The Collection, as all perform well, in my experience. Also, those poor papers! So much scrubbing! Grab a larger brush and use more water. 😅

[@etoileblue]

❤

[@j.a650]

Arches The best

[@Lophophorawilliamsii]

Please now a comparison of the 300 gram papers cotton: Canson Heritage hot pressed vs. Winsor & Newton professional watercolour hot pressed vs. Sennelier paper artistic watercolour hot pressed

[@penpencilpaint]

hi there, hotpress?? mmm maybe? 😅 dont know when i will upload another watercolor video, thanks for watching

[@Lophophorawilliamsii]

@@penpencilpaint A question. Which is whiter, the Saunders Extra White or the Fabriano Extra White?

[@penpencilpaint]

@@Lophophorawilliamsii mmmm i think they both were pretty much same…. really hard to tell

[@nawalkhatiwada633]

Good opinion but a bit confusion of his opinion between Arches and Saunders.. in your glazing statement. They all are 100% cotton and it depends on their individual characters not this and that is better. I use all of them and I do portrait as well as landscape.. it’s not good or bad.. but it depends on your ability to apply colours based on each characteristic of the brands.

[@WingedJedi]

Great video! I have all 3 papers and I was curious if your experiences matched mine. I really enjoy working on Arches, but I agree that it is quite rough. It is a bit tricky to get finer details. I've also used their hot pressed paper, but it is not nearly as good as the cold pressed one. The paint just dries too quickly on it. I really like the Saunders Waterford as well and I've found that it works very well for smooth washes or gradients. The Artistico is the one I'm struggling with the most, but I can't quite place my finger on why that is. Guess I will try some still life paintings on it. =) Thank you for your thoughts!

[@danielleb.7055]

Thanks for the comparison I enjoy paper/paint comparisons. I thought that arches has a brighter paper option like the others? Also, I don't do sketches but maybe using hot pressed would be best for illustrations? Just a few thoughts. Have a great day

[@boobox4041]

Hello! I've decided to show my support and subscribe :) On my end, I'd like to note that I've come to almost identical conclusions using these types of paper. I also discovered that the method of fiber gluing has a significant impact, and if I'm not mistaken, only Arches among these three brands has gelatin sizing, which makes working with wet watercolor techniques absolutely magical. This sizing even allowed me to paint oil studies without additional priming or soaking the paper. Sanders impressed me with its beautiful color washes after the first use, but its inability to preserve its properties during long-term storage left me in a bind and I stopped buying it. Artistico, in my opinion, is the worst of the possible options, especially in terms of poor water retention and pigment accumulation in the texture's crevices. I hope I expressed myself correctly. Thank you for the video!

[@penpencilpaint]

thank you~! very clean answers ☺️☺️

[@CarolinaCarolina-ph9mx]

@boobox4041 I don't know if you will see this, but I am very curious now about what you said about the Saunders. The way that first drop spread had me drooling a little, and I had decided that I wanted the Saunders paper, but you said it doesn't preserve its properties during long term-storage. Whaaa? Do you mean that the look of the painting will actually change some over time while it is being stored? Like in a drawer out of the light, not in a sunny window where we can expect changes? That's upsetting. I wanted the Saunders, but I guess it is back to Arches.

[@boobox4041]

@@CarolinaCarolina-ph9mx I can't add the BIG TEXT)))

[@boobox4041]

@@CarolinaCarolina-ph9mx Hi) I probably didn't express myself very clearly because English is not my native language and I may lose some meanings somewhere) So I'll tell you again about Sanders. It's not about storing finished work. It's about storing paper that hasn't been used yet, clean paper.

[@boobox4041]

@@CarolinaCarolina-ph9mx Because when Sanders is fresh, straight from the warehouse, it's magical paper, but after some time, it's always different because it depends on the time it's stored in the warehouse and in the store, the paper becomes unsuitable for work and this manifests itself in reacting to pigments like fabric.

[@chetloggins8203]

‘Arches’ is pronounce “arsh”.

[@lorenknowles1521]

Thank you! In college my instructors were quick to correct students saying “arches”. 40 years later, a 20 something salesperson in the Austin Jerry’s Artarama corrected my every time I said “arsh” even after I explained the correct pronunciation.

[@TCZenStudio]

Nobody cares

[@roxym.3933]

There is a reason why people like arches cold press if they change their roughness people will not like it anymore … I give you that they should make an extra white but the texture people like it for a reason

[@greekveteran2715]

Fabriano Artistico Hot pressed paper, is great for drawing with graphite or Polychromos. Not for beginners though, only experienced artists. It's tooth make graphite sketches pop. Also it's a deep tooth, means that can take a lot of layers with Polychromos!!! I use Arches Hot Pressed, (black and pink pad), for water soluble pencils, like Faber Castell Graphite Aquarelle. Combined with a decent synthetic brush from Da Vinci, that combo provides the most beautiful graphite drawings I've ever done!! This is also a paper, much easier to work with, means I would recommend it to less experienced artists too!! Nice video, Merry Christmas!!!

[@rebeccalyons1327]

Thank,you

[@gshep3151]

Arches comes in 2 tones, off white and pure white...I know because I've used both and have been using it for many years.

[@penpencilpaint]

oh i guess i made a mistake then, i thought there were inly off white 😭 thanks for the info + thanks for watching

[@livrhondiesteinar7799]

This is the most peculiar watercolor paper review, I've seen. Why would you rate watercolor paper, on the appearance of the package design? "Bouncy" watercolor paper?

[@tonalharmony9266]

He is spot on about the design. Some people notice things like that and it bother's them to see an ugly wrap on otherwise good products.

[@Felmyst]

White color is achieved by adding dye to the paper.

[@MrsBarnabas]

Sorry to correct you, but the white is achieved by bleaching. (I did a lot of research when these came out, and they all came back with the same answer. They have said that it won't affect the life of the paper. I have tried both, but still prefer the off-white. I've never had an issue with colour vibrancy, and as I do plein air, a bright white paper just is too bright on a sunny day! Also, from an ecological point of view, I don't like it that they are using bleach - which, of course, finds its way into the water courses after it has served its purpose with the paper.

[@Felmyst]

​@@MrsBarnabas This is a type of whitening. It is used for pure white paper. This in itself is not bad, but manufacturers are usually silent about it.

[@KobieK]

Honestly, I watched the rest of your videos to see the smallest hint or sample of your "artistic" watercolor skills but couldn't find any. That said, should you really be comparing such top-notch papers? Let alone complaining about Artistico paper.

[@artcloudd]

dont know why but something about you and the way you conducted this comparison just really annoyed me

[@flyfisherman3649]

Don't know why so many people lean towards Arches watercolor paper. Personally I dislike Arches paper. I would rather paint on toilet paper than Arches. I have several blocks of Arches but just never use it all, they just sit in a box.

[@Winstonsmom]

If you are a wet on wet Artist, arches is really the best. While I wish it was a little brighter, and the texture was a bit finer, it is THE most forgiving. If you aren’t big into wet on wet, Hahnemuhle expressions is lovely for whiteness and texture. Used it for quick little Christmas card landscapes this year and it was gorgeous. But there was very little fiddling involved.

[@Zyswest]

can i have your Arches paper? lol

[@Cutiefyart]

@@Zyswest😂😂

[@paulinemegson8519]

What the HELL has the cover design of the pad got to do with paper performance? And why are you testing sketching on watercolour paper? Sketch for finished drawings on DRAWING paper which is harder to allow for erasing, not on soft watercolour paper that is for wet media.I don’t CARE what a watercolour paper is like for detailed drawing, because I’m not USING it for detailed drawings, I’m using it for watercolour.

[@penpencilpaint]

hi there, sorry if i made u upset. i was just reviewing my way, thats all

[@tinaholt717]

Why do you have to be so mean? It’s an informative video, from his own point of view, as he clearly explained. Many of us sketch on watercolour paper for line and wash work, among other things, so it’s a valid comparison. You probably should have moved on after the cover design opinion upset you so much.