Archie Sonic: Penders Gets Creepy (The Deepest Lore of Archie Sonic)

[@talion4033]

Ken Penders’ idea for sonic lore makes him feel like an alternate universe Chris Chan

[@1Hol1Tiger]

Ken is basically the writers of reality going "What if Chris Chan worked for Sega?"

[@craigusselman546]

Just heard about this guy and hes a high functioning Chris for sure not good to be sending out those vibes.

[@Dgero]

Clearly Ken is the Chis Chan counterpart of the Sol Dimension, the differences between the two is that Ken has a wife, and offspring

[@craigusselman546]

@@Dgero So what Ken is still fucking weird , having a wife and kids does not stop a person who has weird vibes giving off weird vibes.

[@Dgero]

@@craigusselman546 I- I didn’t say he wasn’t, I’m just making a Sonic and Blaze being dimensional counterparts joke, you know, the franchise these two are linked to?

[@BrokenHedgehog]

Dear God, Penders' artstyle gives me serious Andrew Dobson vibes... Cartoony overall but with WAY too many fine details to the point the art plunges into depths of the uncanny valley only the most foolhardy dare to tread.

[@memescoffee3173]

ugly sonic is basically sonic as a Penders character

[@xXRickTrolledXx]

@memes&coffee how dare you be so right

[@M1ckTheMan]

Agreed, he's trying so hard to make Sonic characters not look like Sonic characters they just look CREEPY in the end!

[@zbazza6978z]

Poor Sally. She's just a punching bag for the fanbase because Penders didn't want anything to do with a female character he didn't create. Then Amy fans didn't like her because of her relationship with Sonic. SatAM created a great female role-model, Penders tried to destroy it. Hopefully she gets into Sonic media or a game again so she can be given justice

[@SpoilerGoblin]

#RallyForSally

[@amesstarline5482]

He nearly did literally destroy her- Startling, methinks.

[@Shadamyfan-rs8xc]

I thought people still like Sally?

[@amesstarline5482]

@@Shadamyfan-rs8xc People do in spades, this is typically.

[@zbazza6978z]

@@Shadamyfan-rs8xc it's getting better, especially with projects like "Team Sea3on".

[@kap1618]

Geoffrey was an example of trying to have your cake and eat it. He was simultaneously the love rival to Sonic and the unreliable authority underestimated the youths. Individually these archetypes can work but trying to do both lead to terrible results.

[@SpoilerGoblin]

You aren't wrong. Geoffery can and has been done well. This just isn't the right way to use him.

[@rynobehnke8289]

I think a large part of the issue with Geoffrey is that Ken didn't actually thought about his age during his original appearances. His age is a by product of him wanting a young but not baby Geoffrey be there when Sally's older brother was send off to a save place to pull the drama of Geoffries dad dying on the mission with Ken not thinking for a moment about the implications on the by than already ended love triangle of this act.

[@ToaArcan]

Penders: I've redesigned Geoffrey to look more like me. Also Penders: Geoffrey did statutory rape on Sally, but it's okay because royals and squirrel years or some shit. Why is everyone mad at me now? The funny thing is that there was actually some semblance of a Geoffrey fandom before that point. it was small, but it existed. Afterwards? Nope. Nothing, nada. Everyone basically called time on the entire character and now the first thing that anyone knows about him is that time his own creator tried to retcon one of his author avatars into being a sexual predator. Evil Sonic makes a decent palate cleanser, on account of us still being years away from Penders deciding to make _him_ rapey as well.

[@SpoilerGoblin]

Yeah, that Evil Sonic story is... A mess. But at least he was saved and massively improved by later writers, which can't really be said for Geoffery. Flynn tried, but he didn't quite get there.

[@hackwrench5583]

Of course he redesigned Geoffrey to look more like him. A lot of people don't know this, but Geoffrey is Ken Penders' self insert mary-sue fan character. Also: Now that you have that information, you, um.. see where Penders' mind was/is with Sally now, huh?

[@HistoryandReviews]

@@hackwrench5583 Penders is a huge fan of Rey from Star Warts

[@Adamwinters]

Penders invented the original “ugly Sonic” aesthetic.

[@ToastyBeruka]

I remember that we were ranting about Penders before. And yeah the stuff he wrote was creepy

[@SuperCosmicMutantSquid]

The thing that sucks so much is looking back, there is potential 'for everything'. Geoffrey could have served as a good rival to Sonic given that his rivalry with Knuckles had turned into friendship at that point and he and Antonie had also stopped fighting as Ant had started to hook up with Bunny. Geoffrey served as being what King Acorn preferred over Sonic for Sally; someone who was orderly, listened, and was unconditional to the crown. While Sonic WAS dedicated to Sally and the royal family, a lot of stories showed that Sonic was the last person he wanted Sally to marry even though as a person he was cool with him, just not with the thought of him ruling the planet. Later on, they did a better job at showing how Sonic and Geoffrey had similar goals but they didn't agree on how to take them. Geoffrey had lost his dad and only remaining parent to the Overlanders and because of this he didn't care if Nate Morgan would end up getting hurt or yeeted in an operation to rescue him. Sonic was highly against this and a lot of the treatment the Mobians gave Nate for being a Overlander (basically animal on human racism in the comic) and this caused a fight that nearly fucked up the mission had Elias not stepped in and brought order between them. Those ideas make sense.....and then suddenly it got creepy as you said. Penders messed up in two places; letting us know way too much information that was inappropriate for the kids reading (letting us know that Geoff would banged Sally? WHAT?) and the sudden heel turn they threw in for this guy near the end. That made no sense given they had found the right place for him leading the Secret Service for the King and finally have him settle with Hersey. But then they killed Hersey off screen and he turns into a whipping boy for Ixis but WHY exactly? What purpose did they think this gave us other than to bring us back to a point a lot of people didn't want to return to? Because they needed a rival for Sonic? Okay, but did they have to take it to such extremes like they did where it just felt like Geoffrey was supposed to be another character by this point? In the end, the problem with Geoffrey is that he was a character that someone loved too much but other people hated too much and as a result, only very little of his character was ever put to good use and those were stories where his character felt more like a solider who was effected by what was going on and couldn't take Sonic's rebelliousness in what he considered to be serious matters and ironically these were moments Sally did not return his (Geoffrey's) advances and Geoffrey didn't seem to care about a return based in romance but one based in knowing he had served the King. They should have left him married to Hersey and serve the King. Just end it there and all the drama would be avoided.

[@twotonedearly]

if I remember right, I think Geoffrey's heel turn was Ian Flynn's idea just to rub it in Penders's face

[@HenshinFanatic]

Yeah, that happened well after Penders was gone, but I think it's partly what caused his final lawsuit that lead to the complete retcon of Archie Sonic, which didn't survive too far beyond it with Sega pulling the plug since Archie Comics' massive failure at keeping the records secure, opened Sega itself up to legal action from the most hated man in Sonic.

[@SuperCosmicMutantSquid]

@@twotonedearly That's where my observation of Geoff being 'loved too much but also hated too much' comes into play. Even if Ian was trying to 'pay it back' to Penders, it didn't work the way he thought it would since it only made Geoffry's character come off as even more convoluted in motivations. Granted, with everything that happened to the non-Sega characters after the reset, it all ended up fucked by the end anyway.

[@pandawoozy3774]

Just guessing but Geoffrey seems like a self insert

[@kimetheus]

Never saw it that way, but honestly, yeah. It makes sense from how weird of a character he was

[@SpoilerGoblin]

I'm not sure I'd call him a self-insert, but he's definitely an "author's favorite" kind of character. Walking that Gary Stu line in some ways.

[@antyep]

Nah seems more like just his love for James Bond, just like how he tried to force in a number of old sci-fi, especially Star Trek.

[@ToaArcan]

@@SpoilerGoblin I mean, dude got redesigned to have Penders' own moustache, by Penders.

[@SpoilerGoblin]

@@ToaArcan touche

[@darkestccino5405]

When I was a kid, skunks were my favorite animal. I just loved how they looked with their purely black and white colors with stripes. So when I learned that the comics had a skunk character, I immedietly became interested. Little did I know just how cursed he was.

[@PartnershipsForYou]

They also make a scent that smells a lot like marijuana

[@tenebraequeene]

@@PartnershipsForYou you mean smells like roadkill? XD

[@PALACIO254]

@@tenebraequeene same thing

[@RayManiac90]

That character is what many people think Pepe le Pew actually is

[@KixCamelotMain]

One of the worst things I've read in Archie so far was an issue having Bunnie and Antoine kiss WHILE STATING IN THE QUESTIONS AT THE END THAT BUNNIE WAS 14 AND ANTOINE WAS 18 Edit: It was in issue 46

[@SpoilerGoblin]

I actually didn't catch that one. Thanks for adding ammunition to my repertoire!

[@squirtluigi]

woah jeez I'm sure they retconned that later on

[@SpoilerGoblin]

@@squirtluigi It was. She was retconned to be 17 in... issue 90 I believe, which is much better. Still, those ages were clearly the intention when they started dating, so that doesn't entirely remove the problem.

[@squirtluigi]

@@SpoilerGoblin yea it doesn't, the later writers did what they could to patch it up but yikes nontheless

[@SpoilerGoblin]

@@squirtluigi In this case I wouldn't necessarily blame Penders unfortunately. The ages weren't included in the main comic, but instead a response to fan letters written by the editors, not Penders. Not only that, but come the retcon in Issue 90, Penders was still writing. Moreso I think Penders just viewed the FFs as adults rather than teenagers, and that's why he treated them differently.

[@BlueMageWithSoulEdge]

I slightly remember these issues. Sadly the most I remember was getting fed up with what was starting to go on. I didn't like the interjection of romance into the stories 'cause it sorta derailed what was important-- the wacky adventures and stupidity going on. Penders would stop the story to a grinding halt to force in romance (if you wanna call it that) and that pissed me off as a kid. I just wanted to see Sonic smash robots and go fast.

[@megamix5403]

Honestly, the whole plot twist where Geoffrey betraying Robotnik was part of his plan all along is one of the most completely asinine things I've ever heard in my entire life. No wonder I never got into the Sonic comics as a kid. I only knew about them through the Sonic Mega Collection and thought the covers were cool, but little did my younger self knew...

[@SpoilerGoblin]

That was exactly how I found them too, then started noticing them on the shelves at the grocery store and picked them up motnhly for a while. But by then Flynn was writing, so it was much better.

[@Wolfric_Rogers]

The Robo-Robotnik in the story after Eve 'kills' Robotnik IS the same Robo-Robotnik as the one in The Night of 1000 Sonics, since Robo-Robotnik mentions both events shortly before downloading his consciousness into the Eggman body.

[@SpoilerGoblin]

That was my immediate thought too, but a little research made me realize it was a contentious topic due to the weird timeline that universe would need to have. Flynn specifically referred to them as different worlds. The wiki also lists them separately (though the wiki isn't exactly a perfect site). That said, I'm leaning on the same side as you still. The timeline makes more sense than a lot of people give it credit for.

[@Wolfric_Rogers]

@@SpoilerGoblin, I agree, the Archie comics are a very weird and confusing topic.

[@Wanten-the-stormtrooper]

@@SpoilerGoblin The Archie Sonic Online fan continuation also goes with the two of them being the same, if that helps!

[@SpoilerGoblin]

@@Wanten-the-stormtrooper I haven't checked in on ASO for a long time honestly, I should go see what they've been up to.

[@Wanten-the-stormtrooper]

@@SpoilerGoblin Well, they've put out Endangered Species 2 (or is it 3?) and the Sonic Underground Finale that Flynn originally planned!

[@shreksnow1918]

🤣Honestly if it were up to me Ken Penders would be the lead writer for the Sonic games purely because that would be the funniest thing in the world. It’s so funny how literally the only reason he won his court case and owns his terrible recolors is because his opponents were somehow even more incompetent than he was. They should have also had him play Knuckles in the Sonic movie, but instead of cgi he’d be cosplaying as Knuckles. That would be the most amazing thing in the world.😂

[@Olivia-dg4fb]

I'm like a quarter of the way through and already if anyone uses fanfiction written by fans as an insult. I'll just point to the multiverse Sonic's. Edit: I posted too soon good God what the fuck "Sonic may be fast, bit Geoffrey was faster-" fuckin gagged, how the fuck do you sit down and think that that was okay?? It's Sonic, why write about characters sex and romance lives!?!

[@SpoilerGoblin]

Welcome to the wonderful world of Ken Penders. I'll be your guide.

[@obd9660]

Dude, dude... romance is in every fucking thing, even stuff for way younger audiences than Sonic, like Thomas The Tank Engine and Little Bill.

[@SpoilerGoblin]

@@obd9660 It's not just the existence of romance. There's romance in mainline Sonic even. It's about the sex. It seemed out of place in a universe like this.

[@quesocoatl21]

@@SpoilerGoblin I mean the vast majority of children's entertainment has little jokes and innuendos that only adults would get. That isn't to defend what Penders did with Sally and Geoffrey.

[@SpoilerGoblin]

@@quesocoatl21 If it isn't to defend that, then what was the point of posting it? The only part of the comment that reply could possibly be discussing was entirely about Penders' strange sexual overtones.

[@SomeGuy-tr2hi]

I still stand by my belief that Geoffrey would’ve been cool were it not for all that creepy shit Penders eventually did to him. He deserved better tbh, as did Sally for that matter. But for the love of god keep those two far apart.

[@HenshinFanatic]

You think Geoffrey got it bad from He-Who-Is-Not-To-Be-Named? Wait until you see what he's been doing to Julie-Su!

[@SomeGuy-tr2hi]

@@HenshinFanatic I would prefer to live a happier life remaining purposefully ignorant. I only have so much happiness left after what I’ve already seen from K** P******

[@kemix1006]

I really despise Ken Penders so much. The man deserves all the hate he gets and the fact everything he created was retconned out of existence.

[@TupocalypseShakur]

One of the people who worked on this comic was Dan Slott, he would go on to write Spiderverse

[@SpoilerGoblin]

Absolutely correct. I don't believe he was writing at the point were at, but come the late '90s and he did some work for this book (doing a quick glance the first book I found from him was '99, but he may have started a bit earlier). I'll be sure to bring him up whenever we get there. Honestly I should be giving more time to the other writers who aren't Penders in this series.

[@Roboshi2007]

you know, for someone who is so sue happy, there's a LOT of plagarism in these comics, like that issue where sonic is a "ghost" is just ripped from a Star Trek TNG episode. This is a guy who thought an eveil green sonic was a rip off of his "evil sonic with a leather jacket"

[@ebboy53]

Love this series I read this comic some years back but fell off for some outside reasons, I'm gonna get back into it very soon though. Continue the great work!

[@SpoilerGoblin]

I highly suggest it. I also read them growing up, and then my Freshman year of college I rammed through the entire series in a few weeks. It gives you a very different view of the series, but as a whole I enjoyed that process. Thanks for watching!

[@jessicadoe4944]

Pepe Le Pew and Sabrina The Skunk, We Have Competition. His name Is Geoffrey The Skunk. _____________________________ I Envy You Ken Penders!!!!

[@fefreak2045]

Good to see someone recapping the comics pre 160! I recently started reading the WHOLE thing with all mini series and currently on #207. I've been trying to tell my friends that it gets amazing after 160, but they do NOT want to read through all the penders stuff, mainly due to his art and some of the storylines are just bad, but if they didn't read it, they would miss some hype ass moments like the Mecha Madness and the whole thing about ixis naguas. I can hopefully recommend them this at least 😅

[@SpoilerGoblin]

Be sure to remind them that not every comic was written by Penders. As another commenter pointed out earlier today, some issues were written by the man who created Spiderverse (Dan Slott), and you can clearly tell he was flexing those same muscles in, say, Super Special #8 (the one that introduced Zonic and had all the Sally Moon shenanigans). Plus, I'll admit, not all of the Penders stuff is terrible either. A lot of bad, yes, and a bad aftertaste without question, but there are some legitimately good ideas in there. Hopefully you can help to convince your friends to read the series. I know that I've found it to be an issue as well.

[@SuperCosmicMutantSquid]

Your friends do know that in terms of art, Penders actually didn't do a lot of it. The comics had MANY artists and while they varied in degrees a lot of them were great. Where did they get the idea that he did a bulk of the artwork?

[@squirtluigi]

I'm currently at 247 and reading through the worst of penders was totally worth it for what I've been reading so far, Sonic Universe cool arc after cool arc, and even before 160 it's not like everything sucked, there were authors other than Penders working on the comic, and imo Penders himself only got REALLY bad in the last 30-40 issues of his run, which is still quite a lot I admit but as I said, it was worth it

[@fefreak2045]

@@SuperCosmicMutantSquid I think they just associate his current bad art with some of the old artists from then. Like I'll tell them a bunch wasn't Ken, but they e seen some of his worst work and just tend to stay away now. Like some of the art back then was just spectacular in the main line, I was getting hyped for some of that art n shit

[@fefreak2045]

@@SpoilerGoblin That's wild, I didn't know the Spider-Verse writer was the on that introduce Zonic and all that! That's cool as fuck! And yeah I tell them that he had good ideas, just a lot not well executed at all. I think one of them is coming around after I showed him some of the bad ass pre 160 moments

[@JimiLaPointe]

I loved these comics growing up but had no one to talk with about them.

[@LucidPhoton]

Love how comprehensive this is! Keep it up!

[@zeborak6133]

starting to realize what the artist for ugly sonic was thinking...

[@shadamyandsonamylover]

I hope you’re doing more of these! I love these. I read every archie comic and I loved all of them - even the bad ones. Hearing all this breakdown is so nostalgic. You’re doing a great job!

[@abelblue7301]

I wonder why Penders didn’t apply for or yet started a comic series (besides the one he left in developmental hell) or an illustration job that involves weirdly satirical or horror themed genres that he can make use with the art style he does than complain about the legal case. But then again, he’s emotionally alone somewhere in his private life. I can get how he feels somewhere similarly.

[@Je-S1001]

1:10 The Robo-Robotnik from issue 19 and the one from issue 22 are two different Robo-Robotnik’s from two different alternate universes. You can tell because each one has a completely different Sonic, the first has a cyborg Sonic and the second has an older Sonic with kids. The first one as far as I know never showed up again, but the second one, if you read past this past this point you know what became of him.

[@SpoilerGoblin]

I spent a lot of time while writing this script going back and forth on whether or not they were the same Robotnik. There’s been a lot of discussion about it, and even Ian Flynn has commented on it, despite joining the series over a decade after that initial change. Some people have speculated different reasons why they could both be the same. In the end you’re probably right, as weird as it is to have these separate Robo-Robotniks. Looking at it now, it’s more likely that Eggman is from the same good future as Nicole.

[@Je-S1001]

@@SpoilerGoblin So I guess that future was just an alternate universe, not timeline. Btw next time the second Robo-Robotnik returns, they try to make it so they’re the same as the first guy even though it makes no sense. But in the encyclopedia they made years after that, they just kept them separate.

[@SpoilerGoblin]

@@Je-S1001 It’s just a mess lol. Maybe we’ll leave it at that for now

[@Whocares158]

I really wish Sally was in the games. Be pretty cool.

[@SammEater]

So basically Penders was like a more successful Chrischan.

[@islac8525]

13:27 a part of me has just died 💀 just why?

[@irishuisman1450]

if Sally and Geoffrey had both been in like their twenties the age difference wouldn't have been so weird, but Kenders literally wrote in an adult having a relationship with a minor. What Geoffrey did is literally illegal (at least in our world) and I'm surprised he wasn't arrested for it

[@Rgoid]

Seriously? Getting bent out of shape over a five year age difference? I could understand it if it was a twenty year age difference.

[@JinxSanity]

​@@Rgoid Geoffrey still sucks, regardless of one's opinion on age difference.

[@RoninCatholic]

Illegal in some states. 16 is old enough in most of them, and 20 isn't _that_ much above 18.

[@RoninCatholic]

@@JinxSanity That I can stand by. The age difference in isolation is perfectly normal (almost all women prefer a slight age gap of a year or several anyway) but Geoffrey as a self-insert love interest is multiple levels of inappropriate.

[@irishuisman1450]

@@RoninCatholic I mean it's true that the age of consent is 16 in many places, but Sally is 15. She's still below AOC. And even that aside, it's still creepy that a 20-year-old is going after a girl 5 years younger than him. Irl that would probably get him put under a lens

[@noahthehedgehog17]

Damn that be looking like mother brain from Metroid

[@610Hobbies]

I subbed, really liked listening to your video while I worked, but please do a bit of research on how character names are pronounced, you can check Snively's pronunciation in Sonic's SatAM cartoon, keep up the good work!

[@SpoilerGoblin]

Yeah, I've seen the cartoons before, but I've been calling him that for 15 years and old habits die hard, even when faced with the facts. I'm glad you enjoyed though!

[@cassandralyris4918]

Sally & Bunny > Amy, and I don't even hate Amy. Ken Penders on the other hand...let's just say Lara-su doesn't even get to be in the equation...

[@AbyssalDefect]

Keep up my man, can't wait until you get 1k subs!

[@lamiatorchani7648]

That other Robo-Robotnik did give an idea

[@nickdirienzo2849]

Pretty sure half robo sonic is suppoed to be more like Cyborg Superman, not Terminator.

[@SpoilerGoblin]

It's probably a bit of both. They parodied a lot of '90s designs in this book But the travel from a timeline where all is lost + leather jacket give me big T2 vibes.

[@nickdirienzo2849]

@@SpoilerGoblin I'll be honest I could only be bothered to watch a few minutes of this. I didn't see the leather jacket. I made it almost two minutes in, and quickly realized I'm not Chris Chan and I don't care about Sonic.

[@snowqueen_8958]

God this unlocked memories from my childhood.....

[@katiepersons6575]

Issue 20 was my first. Boy shit got real starting with issue 21! Talk about a tonal shift!

[@KeyTryer]

This was my multiverse of madness.

[@greenpinapple820]

Dont have your phone next to you when listening to oney plays guys... you get videos like this cause of corey talking about mr. Penders

[@cartoonking1789]

It’s funny that everyone does Ken Penders characters justice more than Ken Penders himself.

[@SpoilerGoblin]

Penders is an ideas man. He can create great character concepts, great story concepts... Just don't ask him to actually write them. Or draw them. Definitely don't ask him to draw them.

[@cartoonking1789]

@@SpoilerGoblin and definitely don’t ask him to write relationships be it romantic or familial.

[@breezy3176]

@@cartoonking1789 moral is don't ask him to do anything

[@LPMaster6]

This plot is absolutely insane.

[@SpoilerGoblin]

And this is why we hate Ken Well, one of the reasons why we hate Ken

[@KingHoDoKaN]

i thought robotnik stayed in the void for awhile before building metropolis

[@TBrizzle01]

It's amazing how hardcore furry these characters look in comparison to the official Sonic character designs. This Penders guy is probably a furry, which would explain a lot to say the least.

[@SpoilerGoblin]

Oh yeah for sure. And it somehow gets even more so later on.

[@charlesabrams3115]

Penders is a creep

[@tailsprowerfan2729]

He needs to be given the death penalty by the law for his sinful acts

[@HenshinFanatic]

What happens when a Chris-Chan is "successful".

[@HaplessNerd]

Can anyone tell me what the music at the very beginning is? I can't remember the level for the life of me!

[@SpoilerGoblin]

Starlight Zone from Sonic 1

[@johnnyohm1135]

Part two, please! 😁

[@SpoilerGoblin]

I'll get around to it at some point, but this itself is actually part 3 in and of itself. You can find the Archie Sonic playlist here if you want to see the prior two episodes! kzbin.info/aero/PLIzkqjhsWLHM2Ng5dyENiYV6YL_VePuxT

[@lamiamekni2802]

Please more videos about the Archie comics

[@SpoilerGoblin]

I'm working on getting another one out in the next month, so keep an eye out. I also have two other videos on the subject if you haven't seen them already, check the playlists on the channel.

[@redjirachi1]

Pender is the worst thing to happen to Sonic Before you ask Chris-Chan doesn't count because that implies they had an actual impact beyond being a target of mockery

[@espurrseyes42]

Unrelated, but seeing as there is discussion about wanting to see Sally and the FFs back in canon, Sega Japan really needs to pull their heads out of their asses and realize people like the other Sonic continuities they didn't create. This is the same company that was trying real hard to appeal to every Sonic fan with all the stuff in Forces (the perfect game to bring the FFs back given the plot), yet they won't put in that kind of effort for the Western Sonic Cartoon/Archie Comics fanbase and try to re-reboot those characters.

[@SpoilerGoblin]

I think they’re just gunshy on them after Chronicles. I don’t blame them, but I really wish they’d do more with the American (or even European) side of the 90s too.

[@Boomrainbownuke9608]

(laughing) what are ya gonna do about it?

[@Rae0814]

Penders work just feels like he’s shoving his fetishes into a kid’s franchise.

[@SpoilerGoblin]

You're far from the first person I've seen accuse him of that. It's a weirdly prevalent thing in comics and cartoons (go rewatch a few episodes of Totally Spies if you haven't in the last few years).

[@jonmichael6746]

Wow, what a nostalgia trip.

[@adamwilliams4928]

I dunno, I never really saw how Penders writing was all that creepy. I've seen worse in Ultimate X-Men, Pietro and Wanda...(Banjo begins to play). Perhaps you could say from a children's comic standpoint, it's creepy? Well, has anyone ever read the ACTUAL Archie comics? If so, tell me who Archie's girlfriend was? Here's a hint, the answer is MULTIPLE choice. Heck, Archie fooled around with other dude's girlfriends and his comic was rated G at the time. XD

[@fightingmedialounge519]

It has mostly to do with the age of the characters.

[@adamwilliams4928]

@@fightingmedialounge519 The only questionable thing I can think of is Tails (At one point he and Barby Koala looked like they were gonna have a thing. Even back then I was like, "Wait a minute") But teenagers and young adults "fooling around" is pretty much status quo for American comics. I think people were just uncomfortable with the whole anthropomorphic angle of it. Then again, back in those days the Comics Code Authority for American comics have always been oddly fine with risque "business". Like when it was implied teen aged Tera, from Teen Titans, was having a relationship with Deathstroke. She was literally sitting in front of him in nothing but a silk robe at one point.

[@fightingmedialounge519]

@@adamwilliams4928 not really. People's issues lied in characters like Sally (who were stated to be 15) being paired with Geoffrey who was treated as, and later revealed to be in his twenties. Theres also evil sonic likely having sex with bunny rabot while disguised as normal sonic,, and since have sex with someone under false identity is considered rape in many area of the world, you can probably with that writing choice all on your own. People had issues with the Terra slade relationship, but to a lesser extent because they were villains and said actions were framed as dioplorable. Sure in the grand scheme of messed up comic relationships having adults date teenagers is pretty low, but most people who read the Archie sonic books aren't avid comic fans themselves. To them something like this would be unsettling for the heroes to do, and made worse by the fact that these were primarily aimed at a younger audience. If anything them being animals made these choices controversial than if they were people.

[@adamwilliams4928]

@@fightingmedialounge519 Even today, those are still common narrative tropes in various forms of media, including shows that are so called aimed at kids. Maybe it's not Ken Penders writing that's creepy, but the sensibilities in American stories itself. This is/was a common theme in Archie Comics back then. Those characters might as well have been swingers.

[@fightingmedialounge519]

@@adamwilliams4928 not really no. You would have a hard time naming another children's property, especially in today's Era, that would have teenagers dating adults and implied rape handled in a casual manner. You seem to be confused here. The issue isn't "ZOMG the characters have love lives" like you for some reason keep going back to. It's the fact that penders handles adult subjects, like ephebophilia and rape, with no tact, and including them in the story for no real reason.

[@Micktrap397]

While I have admit that the Archie Sonic Comic aren’t perfect, But we can agree that penders ruined the series until issue 159, Ian Flynn did improve it since issue 160. And also, penders didn’t Write the First issue.

[@-my4skinwastakeninasickjew426]

I still rage at the loss of Chronicles 2 because of him. Some of his original (do not steal) characters are really good but him as a person is too much. He has damaged the series and art form and makes the most creepy uncanny valley art style stuff to this day. “PEEEEEEENNNNNDDDDEEEERRRRRSSSSS!” - in Nostalgia Critic voice.

[@ToaArcan]

TBF, Chronicles 2 was a long-shot anyway, what with Bioware being bought by EA, and the first game tanking (Largely because the EA buyout basically forced them to rush out a pre-beta build). Penders more ensured that the idea and the characters therein wouldn't appear in any other media.

[@-my4skinwastakeninasickjew426]

@@ToaArcan All sad but true. Just the mere fact that he had something to do with attacking a Sonic Spin Off game makes me especially mad because only real fans like the non mainline games. And yeah it felt like a beta build. Didn’t have much advertisements either. What a waste.

[@Se7enBeatleofDoom]

Before Chris-Chan Sonichu there was Ken Penders Geoffrey St. John.

[@AE1OU]

0:18 why was the no.3 princess sally cover censored? I had to look it up the cover and it doesnt seem to be anything worth censoring?

[@SpoilerGoblin]

Mostly just for the sake of spoilers. Looking back now it was pointless but whatever I did it anyways lol

[@Probablyabox]

0:25 wait why is that one censored penders what did you do

[@SpoilerGoblin]

I just censored that one because of spoilers for later in the video. It just showed Sally and Robo-Sally fighting each other.

[@johnremizeztomilloso158]

Ngl i want to get this some of this issues cause the neat covers

[@SpoilerGoblin]

Yeah the cover art for a lot of these is great. Issue 21 was the first to have cover art done by Patrick Spaziante, who did most of the cover art for Archie. Absolutely phenomenal artist.

[@lamiamekni2802]

Why's Geoffrey hated ?

[@usernameaz602]

Pen Kenders...

[@trickstar250]

What is the song at 10:00?

[@SpoilerGoblin]

I can't hear it super well, but I think it's Fly in the Freedom from SA2?

[@RoninCatholic]

20 and 16 isn't that big of an age gap. Would you call it creepy if he was 21 and she was 17, or he was 22 and she was 18? It _is_ creepy that the author is clearly using the guy as a proxy for himself to vicariously have sex with a cartoon character clearly designed as the actual main hero's love interest. Inserting himself not only into a story, but into the main relationship. Like, imagine if someone became the showrunner of a Flintstones adaptation and wrote a character into the plot whose entire purpose was to seduce Wilma while being a clear stand-in for himself, that's what this is like.

[@SpoilerGoblin]

Geoffrey’s age is inconsistent throughout the run of the comic. He’s definitely meant to be closer to her age later on, but here it’s a lot less clear due to how the story changed. But yeah Penders pulling a Bendis is also super creepy and off putting. I won’t deny that one. Man loved his echidnas, but clearly was a huge simpmunk as well.

[@kwproductions6737]

I really do hate the Comics that Ken Pender were involved in the art is atrocious the writing is awful story is all over the place it's a really bad comic the new idw Comics are really good and a lot of the last Archie comics AKA the Comics that were released after Ken penders left are also really good

[@tron.44]

It's pronounced sniv-uh-lee.

[@TheobaldLeonhart]

I actually like Geoffrey

[@SpoilerGoblin]

It's rare to see someone who does, but I can respect having your own opinion. I do admit as well that I like what Flynn was doing with him before the reboot, but unfortunately we didn't get to see much of that.

[@tessblog3384]

Awesome game ❤️

[@dankwaifu2093]

Taken as it is in print, the Sally/Geoffrey thing isn't as bad as people say. To my knowledge, Geoffrey's age was never stated in the series. Like Ogilvie being Sonic's true first name, that's a Penders idea that never actually made it's way into the canon of the book. I doubt Ian would've treated Geoffrey as well as he did, or even brought him back, if anyone else at Archie knew he was in his 20s when he was macking on a teenage girl.

[@SpoilerGoblin]

I don't think the age was ever actually said, but he definitely seems to be older in how he's portrayed I think, plus he was already a functioning adult with a job before Robotnik took over. But I will concede that the timeline is very messy. At one point (the Sonic miniseries, under Gallagher) it was established that Robotnik had only taken over recently, while it would later be retconned (funnily enough also in a story written by Gallagher) that it happened not long after Tails was born. So I'm only speculating at age ranges for them here. The best way I could guess is that Penders didn't see Sally (or most of the main cast honestly) as a teenager. So pairing her with a character more coded to be an adult made more sense there. Which doesn't sit right with me, who reads Sally as a teenager more than an adult. Without officially published ages it can be a little up to interpretation.

[@PlanetZoidstar]

@@SpoilerGoblin Exactly, Sally was a child when Robotnik took over, and Geoffrey being part of her dad's Secret Service implies he's significantly older than Sally. Since the Secret Service he was a part of had to be established before Robotnik's takeover, and they wouldn't allow a child to join such an important service...

[@TSMSnation]

aug why music in one ear dog. unwatchable.

[@Rgoid]

10:30 Out of her age range? By five or six years? Big deal.

[@Tobunari]

Have you heard of the Archie Sonic digest?

[@SpoilerGoblin]

The comics that collect random stories from throughout the history of the series for reprinting? I'm aware of them but have only ever had one myself.

[@Tobunari]

@@SpoilerGoblin No, It's a podcast by a youtuber named Sonic_Speed.

[@SpoilerGoblin]

Ah, I hadn't. I guess I'll have to look into it.

[@cheese6929]

Isn't that sonic genisis

[@the-np4mr]

No

[@SpoilerGoblin]

Maybe

[@Poezick88]

You say snivley funny

[@SpoilerGoblin]

Yeah, its just how I've said it when I was a kid. The existence of the Pokemon Snivy, while not around when I was a kid, still makes me feel vindicated now though.

[@Poezick88]

@@SpoilerGoblin you’re good , dude. It’s classy. I feel terrible now 😅

[@SpoilerGoblin]

Don't lol. You're fine. You're technically correct anyways. He has the name because he's sniveling. I've always pronounced things weird and kind of get a kick out of people's responses to it sometimes.

[@sircasino614]

She may be 16, but she's also a cartoon animal. If anything she's ancient in squirrel years XD

[@SpoilerGoblin]

15 actually. Another commenter pointed me to an official source on that. While she may be old for a squirrel, she's still clearly meant to be a teenager.

[@mitchellhancock7920]

To be fair, the age range isn't far but I digress.

[@SpoilerGoblin]

I wouldn't worry about it if it were, like, a 36 year old and a 42 year old. But, even at age 25 I probably wouldn't touch a 19 year old. The age difference just seems so much larger when you're maybe 20 and younger due to the massive change in maturity and brain chemistry around that age. In some cases I'd agree with you, but I don't think this one qualifies.

[@mitchellhancock7920]

@@SpoilerGoblin Touche

[@sigmaK9]

If the girl is legal, it isn’t anybody’s business who she goes out with or who she attracts. We are free to be creeped out if the age disparity is too much for us to handle but, we cannot arrest someone for a legal relationship because it makes us feel icky.

[@antyep]

I think the ages were stated in Penders’ Sonic encyclopedia, at least by what year they were born.

[@obd9660]

@@SpoilerGoblin Erm, you do know 16 in America is the minimum age of concent, don't you?

[@blazingsonic]

Snively is pronounced "Sn-vel-lee" Like they do in the cartoon.