Are BERD String Spokes More Compliant? Ride Test: BERD vs. Standard Steel Spokes

[@qualm43]

You should a super slow-mo huck-to-flat comparison on a hardtail with these spokes.

[@hardtailparty]

That would be very interesting to see. I wonder if it would be visible. I feel like most of the vibration reduction is on a minute level. I don't imagine these looking tons different from traditional spokes on a huck to flat since they have the same spoke tension as steel spokes. I think it's more of a micro vibration damping feel than a springy/flexy wheel feel.

[@joelawton123]

@@hardtailpartyit would be interesting Impact makes even rigid structures do crazy things

[@MrTrixton]

@@joelawton123 did you see Berd's own impact test machine? Its on their site

[@hardtailparty]

If only those cameras didn't cost $60k

[@chiefsilverback]

@@hardtailparty see if you can't do a collaboration with the SloMo Guys!

[@mikelo303]

Big thanks for adding grams numbers for rest of the world!

[@hardtailparty]

For things like wheelsets, it makes a lot of sense.

[@jonathangreiner]

Have a set of their new Hawk 30 with Onyx hubs arriving tomorrow for the Passila Juntu!

[@hardtailparty]

What a combo!

[@rufuswainwright8171]

Great video in many ways👍🏻👍🏻 Having put Berd spokes on my LB rims, I can confirm a transformation occurred. Much much more compliant ride. Though if I was buying today, I think I’d go straight for their Hawk 30 wheelset. I know that they are a lot of 💰💰💰but money well spent in my book. But I’d like to say ‘Bravo’ to the way you treat other trail users. I think we could all learn a little something here 👏🏻👏🏻 You’re the only channel I support, again money well spent. Keep up the great work Steve🤘🏻🤘🏻

[@hardtailparty]

Thanks for the support Rufus! I hope to be able to test the Hawk 30 wheelset one day.

[@johnlynn42069]

really really appreciate you making a point to demonstrate proper trail etiquette!!

[@MattieHagedorn]

Here's the elephant in the room that no one seems to talk about regarding Berd spokes: most Dyneema products have a life span of about five years. So are you going to rebuild all your Berd wheels every five years? This is one of the main things keeping me from adopting Berd spokes because when I build my bikes I'm not afraid to spend, but I expect things to last.

[@hardtailparty]

Interesting question. I haven't heard that stat before. I'm sure different dynema uses have varying fatigue characteristics and lifespan. But these haven't been out for 5 years yet, so I can't speak to that.

[@thetart20]

Yeah, huge variation in lifespan depending on usage conditions, grade of Dyneema, and any treatment used (such as PU coating). AFAIK the Berd spokes use a DM20 material which is SK78 grade. This means it is relatively low tenacity compared with higher grades such as SK99, but importantly is zero creep. Creep is where the material, if constantly loaded, elongates slightly over time. In a bike wheel, this of course would mean reduction of spoke tension. But I do agree, these spokes should be marketed as having a finite lifespan.

[@zap...]

Berd only has a limited warranty for 5 years on the spokes.

[@RobertFullStop]

I've just stopped the video at 2m37s to thank you for saying the weights in metric ✌🏼

[@politan83]

Honest, thorough review as always. I got a sick deal on the Nukeproof Horizons (50% off with tape, sealant, valves, and free shipping), and that will be my wheels for as long as they last- and, of course, I only knew about those thanks to Steve. I would love to try some of those light, soft carbon rims with Berd spokes just to see what those feel like, but on my teacher salary that will have to wait until I have a wealthy benefactor :-).

[@thetart20]

Cool comparison and well presented, thank you! Absolutely agree with your findings, having built a bunch of different wheels for myself using similar materials. The biggest change for me is the vibrations, as you said it feels a bit like CushCore. Made a huge difference on my rigid bike!

[@B1KER]

This was interesting. I was curious about these. Back when I had him on the podcast he didn’t have demo sets. I was thinking about reaching back out to see if I could give them a shot.

[@peterronzoni9264]

I know you talked about the Bontrager Line Comp wheels when you did the Roscoe review. Man, for a budget wheelset they are supple and awesome....I think I paid $400 for the set and another $50 to upgrade to 108 engagement and it has completely transformed my hardtail

[@andydinger7339]

Mr. Steve, been watching your channel for awhile now. It's been said before, but your trail etiquette is straight up on point. Thanks for being the model for all trail riders, keep it up! I don't ride hardtails anymore (except around town), but will keep on watching your high quality vids. On a side note, never been to Sedona before, but I get to visit next week, with my bike. Your videos are keeping the stoke high!

[@hardtailparty]

Thanks for the.lond words. Will you be attending the MTB festival? It's a really fun time, but definitely the busiest weekend for traffic on the trails and in town.

[@andydinger7339]

@@hardtailparty Gonna miss the festival by a day or two. Leaving the High Rockies on the 4th for Moab, then on to Sedona. Hitting New Mexico trails on the way back to the frozen tundra that is central CO right now.

[@hardtailparty]

@@andydinger7339 Good timing, that'll be perfect! Hopefully the trails are dried out from this storm that rolled in.

[@dugfgcc]

Im the kid from the school today and I'm from 6th grade and you are the best KZbinr that I know

[@hardtailparty]

Thanks for paying attention and saying hi! It was really nice to meet you.

[@ragu4545]

Thanks for your review and concise conclusion. Very great!

[@laundry08]

Yo HTP, love your vids. I could watch you shredding Sedona singletrack all day. I think this comparison would be less biased though if you didn't know which spokes you were running. Maybe next time have a bro put your wheels on behind a blind, do the ride without checking the gear, then swap out the wheelset (don't peek!) and give your impressions on both cases before the big reveal. Makes for more engaging content, less bias, and thus better informed consumers.

[@hardtailparty]

Here's a fun way you can replicate this blind test. Seek out the timestamps when I ride past the same bit of trail with each wheeelset. Get a friend to toggle between the two. See if you can hear the difference between each wheeelset on this video. I'll bet you'll be able to tell which wheeelset is the BERD one because it'll be a LOT quieter than the other.

[@edgardacanay8460]

The new NOBL wheels are handlaid in Canada by WeAreOne Composites

[@shaunroach7829]

Another great review Steve!!! Great comparison with the back to back tests!!! Everyone wants the allow rim test now 😝!!!

[@chimps4gimps]

Interesting video, thank you. In building up my first steel hardtail I made the mistake of going for Hope Fortus 30s (2,305g). I went with heavy tyres too. It was built with strength in mind but I’m not a heavy guy and it’s definitely overkill. The bike weighs in at 15.3kg/33.7lbs. I’ll still take it on some epic rides with plenty of uphill though 😁

[@bushflyr7335]

Great video, as always. Just got a set of WAO Fuse rims with Onyx hubs from Berd and cant wait for the rain to stop to give them a workout.

[@ShreddingSpree]

Great video Steve! I always appreciate how well you articulate comparisons like this. I did a similar test but I rode a fairly high speed trail and noticed a the ride to be quieter, more damp, and a bit zippy-er in the turns with the berd setup. Overall it just felt more controlled and the bike was a bit easier to hold onto (for a hardtail) The difference was a little subtle but over the course of a 3 hour ride I think that adds up to a lot more enjoyable experience. And on a hardtail I think a wheel upgrade is worth more than buying a top spec fork vs mid-spec. Just my 2 cents. Keep killing it buddy! Hope to ride with you soon!

[@hardtailparty]

100% agree, well said. I hope our paths cross sooner than later.

[@johnharrison6522]

Agreed on all points. The spokes are lighter and they damp vibration. So you still get the initial impact but it just feels less harsh and jarring. I feel like my LES with Berd spokes and 2.4x29 is smoother than my 2.8x27.5 Chameleon with Atomik Chubbies and Tannus inserts. And I LOVE the Chameleon, really fun bike and the wheels I have on it have really made it that much more fun, but the LES has really surprised me. I thought it would be much more harsh, but it isn't.

[@tmwei396]

Interesting comparison and discussion. Have you or know of anyone who have tried Berd spokes with aluminum rims. I've only seen reviews of them with carbon rims. I have the Zipp 3Zero Motos on my hardtail and I love them. Being Berd curious, I'm wondering how it would be to replace the spokes on my Zipp wheelset with Berd spokes. Would it make the wheels feel too squishy given that the rims are already so compliant? I have the Zipp hubs so I don't even know if that's possible. Lastly, are the Berd spokes touching each other when they cross? I can't tell by looking at the videos but I suspect they do. If so I'm wondering what the long term effects are with them rubbing against either other with dirt/dust trapped in the pours of the fiber weaves.

[@hardtailparty]

That's a question I have too. BERD hasn't found a way to make their spokes work with those rims yet

[@machyne82]

I wish wheels from the 90’s like Spinnergy and Spin were actually good. I loved that look. All nice carbon wheels look similar today. Nothing stands out like those old ones did.

[@joebikes]

Great video! For hand fatigue, have you considered testing the Fasst Flexx bars? I’m thinking about doing that myself on a new hardtail build 😬 and I just want to say I appreciate how respectful you are to hikers, you’re a class act 👍

[@hardtailparty]

I've ridden friend's bikes with them. It'd be fun to experiment with some.

[@SsmAnyfeSt]

At that price, why you guys dont just ride coil forks? Third year on my coil z1 and wouldnt go back on air fork!! No more hands/arms problems!

[@chiefsilverback]

I'd love to see the physics behind the difference. If you think that a bike effectively hangs from the rim and the spokes are under a reasonable amount of tension it must all be down to the damping properties of the different materials and how they absorb/transmit vibration. The aluminium rim/Berd spoke test feels like something you're going to have to do Steve now that a few people have brought it up! 😉

[@hardtailparty]

oh man, these tests are getting expensive!

[@thetart20]

Its pretty straightforward. The Berd spokes have approx 3x the elongation of a regular steel spoke (depending on the steel spoke), and the material used doesn't have the same resonance after a load-unload cycle.

[@Onecogmike]

I have light USA carbon rims with berd spokes and hydra hub. Your welcome to use them for a comparison. I ride Casa Grande mountain with my ti MIDDLECHILD singlespeed.

[@jonfarmer7914]

Besides the main point of the video, I also enjoyed the courtesy to other trail users.

[@MikeesTexas]

Squishy guy here, running BERDS front and rear/ id like to bring up the idea that sprung vs unsprung weight is a factor at play with suspension. I feel BERD spokes are my number one upgrade to my Full suspension bike.

[@hardtailparty]

Very good point.

[@mellissanash7517]

Another great video. Could do something like a budget carbon and budget alloy wheels with Berd spokes to compare to the same wheels without it if possible. Like the Nukeproof wheels with Berds. What do think about just running Berd spokes in the rear of a hardtail?

[@williamwerk5447]

Now to redo one of your older experimental videos with putting a xc wheelset on this time with berd spokes as one of your complaints before was how stiff the enve wheels were.

[@MrTrixton]

I went with Berd Hawk 30 recently. Kind of a toss up between them and atomik. Great too see compliant carbon that also has a lifetime warranty and is MUSA.

[@RomanMoroniesFargingWall]

I know they're relatively cheap wheels, but I'm super curious to see how a Spank Vibracore 359/Berd spoke wheelset would perform on a hardtail.

[@jennlovesfun]

Me too! I’d love to see this comparison vs Zipps

[@tjay_mac]

Thanks. Now time to try Berd Hawk 27 and 30 Series wheels. The rims are compliant that those high frequency vibration disappeared.

[@hardtailparty]

I've been trying to get a set in to compare, I'm very curious how they stack up.

[@j.albertogratacos2076]

Thanks again for a great review. I'd get them for the rear of my hardtail IF they dropped the price considerably. Also, installing them requires that you prep the hub to remove the rough edges.

[@Swerval]

Out of curiosity I weighed my front wheel (the rear requires tools. Too hard) Praxis AL32 alloy rim laced to a novatec boost hub with straight gauge stainless spokes (unpainted) with a 29x2.5 Maxxis Minion DHF in tanwall and a 200mm Shimano XT rotor 2340g

[@korbinmcdowell3069]

You should do a review on the fezzari Wasatch peak! 900$ for a boost thru axle bike with air fork. There is many different spec levels… the most expensive being like 1800 the cheapest being 900

[@captaincrazymofo]

Yay for the hot pink helm !!! I love mine so much, gets so many sideways looks from the Kashima kids

[@hardtailparty]

anything we can do to keep the kashima kids looking sideways! I wish all my forks were pink helms, I love it.

[@darrinkulyk9560]

Excellent Video Thanks 😎 I Ride my CF Warden daily wear my riding gear full time lol even at Work lol I ride to work and ST home and do Blk Stuff On the Weekends 😀 Definitely getting Berd Spokes With the Onyx Vespers most likely the Convergence Hoops 🙃

[@Jabba1625]

Hell being a Aussie, that country side looks awesome as. Always wanted to see Nevada, Arizona etc. but I am too broke. Inland Australia is nice but its hotter than than Hades (as there would be at times) unless you go in Winter and not very inspiring in parts for MTB riding. Low to high 40c (refuse to use freedom units, lol) and maybe above is like death valley material in some parts of here.

[@TrailFeatures]

Since discovering I'm developing arthritis in my left hip, I'm suddenly very interested in options that add suppleness to my bike(s) to prevent wear and tear on rides and reduce soreness post ride. These are on my short list.

[@hardtailparty]

Sorry to hear about the arthritis. I'm too scared to ask the doctor about arthritis, being a hardtail rider.

[@ssmtb]

Haven't even watched this till the end and I'm knowing it's going to be interesting! Edit: watched it all, great review & insights!

[@bikernaut1]

Thank you for great review 🙏

[@brambled8763]

Can you put these on the Zipp rims and let us know how they feel. Might be too much of a good thing but it will be interesting none the less.

[@hardtailparty]

It's a really challenging build. I'll see of I can do it though.

[@mrvwbug4423]

Wish Atomik would offer their Enduro rims in 30mm width, they are quite reasonably priced for US made carbon rims. They're cheaper than Ibis carbon rims which are not made in the US and WAY cheaper than Reserve Carbon rims

[@hardtailparty]

They're 29i, which is not distinguishable from 30i. I doubt anyone would feel the 1mm difference in width.

[@JustJake77]

BERD is the next big purchase for me and my RS-291. I feel they would absolutely enhance my overall experience on that steed.

[@hardtailparty]

I think they would!

[@JustJake77]

@@hardtailparty I must thank you, for turning me on to RSD. Your final review was the tipping point for me pulling the trigger on getting that bike. One of the best bikes I've ever owned, and I've had a lot haha. The whole customer service experience with Alex was the best I've ever had, for any product. Will definitely be supporting RSD for many years to come.

[@hardtailparty]

@@JustJake77 Alex is incredible with his customer service. Unreal. Glad you're stoked on that bike, they do great stuff.

[@gren509]

Sound quieter, I guess the metal in normal spokes resonates the vibes.

[@stephenkohler3472]

I'm wondering how they would do on alloy rims? That could be a very light, tough, and damp wheelset that would still be cheaper than a carbon wheelset.

[@hardtailparty]

we may have to experiment with this now...

[@stephenkohler3472]

@@hardtailparty That would be awesome to see!

[@chriss8375]

Have you done Byrd with an alloy rim yet?

[@hardtailparty]

No, but that could be a fun experiment

[@tmwei396]

I just asked the same question.

[@MrTrixton]

Berd makes a wheel with xm481 rims so they must endorse at least that

[@VelkePivo]

Your speaking of joint pain has more significance now...

[@nrhudec]

Can you do more rigid bike reviews?

[@hardtailparty]

Yes, but this is primarily a mountain bike channel, so I focus on riding singletrack. Here in the west, most trails are too bumpy for a rigid setup. My wrists and knees and ankles would hate me

[@thetruelefty9302]

How do you feel about the difference between wheels with Berd spokes too Spinergy wheelset?

[@hardtailparty]

See my video where I compare 6 different wheels, I compare spinergy and these atomiks.

[@ryanmiskin]

As far as mountain biking being an expensive sport, what surprised me most was how much the tires cost and how fast I go through them. I go through about 2 sets per season and if I get maxxis tires, that's almost $400.

[@hardtailparty]

Tires are indeed CRAZY expensive. That said, I'm pretty impressed with what they can ride through these days without popping, but yeah... they shouldn't cost nearly that much.

[@alabaster4263]

That's why I ride specialized tires

[@ryanmiskin]

@Alabaster good point. They had a sale recently, and I got three tires shipped for $100.

[@MountainBikeAdventures]

Facts! The other day I was looking on Amazon “obviously”, to buy some Muc Off Drivetrain degreaser. What did I find?! A $135.00 bike cleaning kit with a microfiber cloth?! Just ridiculous…

[@a8f235]

Even through video I can hear the difference. Definitely a more dampened feel to that sound from those stringy spokes.

[@johnnydoe66]

I am rather curious how you determine the right tire pressure for yourself, especially with you switching tires. I watched a video about 5 yrs ago on finding a good tire pressure for yourself and the type of riding/trails you do. The guy said to start within 4-5 psi of the max pressure of the individual tire, ride a similar trail, drop the pressure 1 psi each ride, and when the tire feels like it's trying to roll off the rim, go back up 1-2 psi. I'm not sure if this is the right way, but it seemed to work for myself. Just wondering your opinion on this since you have alot of experience with tire swaps, especially with hardtails. I ride a plus hardtail and every tire has been different, tread pattern density, sidewall stiffness, and tpi

[@hardtailparty]

I go entirely by feel, not by numbers. I know it sounds like a cop-out, but I don't have a magic formula. I don't entirely agree with what that other guy said, but if it gets people experimenting, I'm all for it. I run different pressures between my hardtails and my fs bikes too, with my hardtails running a lower pressure. So much depends on riding style and terrain, as well as rims, tires, etc.

[@johnnydoe66]

@hardtail party Thanks for the reply. That guy's advice was in my opinion a good starting point, but ultimately like you said it's all dependent on terrain and feel. I ended up going about 3-4 psi higher than what he suggested, it was too soft and felt like I had a flat. Keep up the great work, love your content. I am not being biased just because I love hardtails.

[@ofacefan]

My biggest concern I durability if the get nicked..

[@athishmarutharaj6001]

U can never go wrong with too much compliance on a hardtail. Would you say that the nukeproof horizon rims are the most compliant rims on the market? if so would building a wheel with berd spokes and a Nuke proof horizon rim would be significantly more compliant than a regular horizon wheel set?

[@hardtailparty]

I agree, compliance is a great thing on a hardtail! No, hzn wheels are not the most compliant rims on the market. I'd like to experiment with berd spokes on an alloy wheel someday.

[@mladenkaranovic3469]

outro is real...

[@ericpmoss]

Interesting - if you’d put BERDs on every bike (if money is no object), would you say the same for Onyx hubs?

[@hardtailparty]

Absolutely

[@ericpmoss]

@@hardtailparty Thanks! I just thought -- which wheel benefits the most from BERDs? I can imagine either, for different reasons, but it's just guessing.

[@BRUTALIY]

Thanks for a metric 👍🏻

[@50whatnomadtravelnursemtb5]

What about using Berd spokes with Zipp rims, would that be too soft?

[@hardtailparty]

Possibly. It's an experiment I hope to try one day, but it's a very tricky build.

[@AndrewOudin]

I find that mtb is one of the cheapest action sports. Bikes last for ages and the cheap no-name replacement parts are often serviceable, at least compared to the cheap junk of other sports. But its true I'm not riding rocky opuntia-agave trails in Sedona.

[@machine7767]

What do you think of the BERD wheels?

[@hardtailparty]

I haven't had the chance to ride them yet.

[@mlee6050]

I am looking berd spokes but not onyx hubs but not matter to me as I never coast on road

[@hardtailparty]

Yeah, road bikes don't need high engagement hubs

[@mlee6050]

@@hardtailparty oh didn't know that, just knew silent coast they did, looking at DT Swiss 240 exp with 36t star ratchet but also thought 54t as from videos sounds quieter

[@mechpade]

Zipp moto3 rims x Berd spokes? Would that be too soft?

[@hardtailparty]

Possibly. I'd like to test it, but I'm struggling to find people who have built them with any level of success.

[@mechpade]

@@hardtailparty I asked Berd about the Zipp rim pairing and they said that Berd spokes don’t pair well with single wall rims. There’s tension loss over time. I’ll just go with the new WAO Fuse rims w/ talon hubs. Would you like to try them?

[@3crowsfarm16]

What would the BERD spokes do for a journeyman class wheelset like the NukProof Horizon v2? Would it be a better upgrade to change out the spokes, or get a supple carbon rim? Would we notice the weight and ride quality from the spokes more than rim construction? Can we even do that on an aluminum rim? Thanks for the review!

[@hardtailparty]

Lots of great ideas for future experiMENTAL videos. Since the BERD spokes themselves cost more than the entire nukeproof hzn wheelset, I don't imagine a lot of people going this route, but who knows... You're over $1k into wheels at that point. Could still be a great bargain if it rides better than a set of light bicycle wheels. I imagine it'd improve things nicely, but usually when people are willing to spring $600 for spokes, they're willing to spend a bit more for carbon rims. I feel like supple spokes feel different than a supple rim.

[@cra_55]

Have you ever crashed into those cacti before?

[@hardtailparty]

Yup!

[@cra_55]

@@hardtailparty Ouch

[@monztrluvr]

First!