Are Bikes ACTUALLY Overpriced? (Fairlight Secan & Van Rysel Aero bikes launched)

[@runmvp]

Short answer, YES! There is no explanation why a bicycle costs more than a motorcycle. Cycling has started to be a luxury sport that not many can afford.

[@br5380]

@@runmvp watches can cost more than cars, your point is?

[@cjohnson3836]

There's a lot of explanation as to why a bicycle costs more than a motorcycle. Scale for starters. But beyond that, you're comparing the absolute cutting edge of superbikes to not cutting edge motorcycles. Simple truth is, the motorcycle equivalent of the bikes they're riding in the TdF, you cannot buy. Those bikes are 1 of 1. Many of the parts are being fabbed by the race teams to push out every ounce of performance, which is why those bikes have so many malfunctions. To actually price one would run you as much as $2.5million. That GSXR1 that you can buy off the lot isn't the bike Alex Rins was taking around the track.

[@runmvp]

@@br5380 expensive watches are made from gold, platinum and other expensive materials. They have tiny parts that have been made by expensive machinery. Although I don’t agree as to why they price a watch so much. Also some watches go up in value with time. A bicycle only goes down in value.

[@runmvp]

@@cjohnson3836 there really isn’t explanation. A normal road motorcycle clutch has more parts that any top end bicycle has to not speak of the very complicated architecture of an engine. Of course there are motorcycles that cost more than bicycles but the point here is new motorcycles that cost 10-18k vs top end bicycles. There still isn’t no explanation as to why they cost the same if not much more.

[@DnBSkunk]

​@@runmvp I don't understand why it needs to be explained. They cost more because the companies charge more. I don't understand the fascination of comparing two different products. Why do some motorcycles cost more than cars? A base Panigale before you've even added any extras on costs more than an electronic Vauxhall Corsa. I say this as someone who rides motorcycles and doesn't try to justify the absurd cost of some bikes. It's a buyers market and if someone wants to spend £X then they're free to do so.

[@slayer6936]

Prices are out of control and all these companies are having their frames built overseas for cheap and than bringing them in and marking them up to Prices that the normal everyday man or women can't afford in todays economy and these companies are wondering why they are going broke. I bought my first high end bike in 85 and it was a pink Trek 770 with super record and matrix aro rims and paid 1.500.00 but today you are paying 6k for a mid range bike and up to 15k for a high end bike. Im actually going to buy a titanium Reilly if im going to spend the money or Canyon CF SL 8 this spring butvim single retired and saved the money to buy one.

[@davidarthur]

So interestingly, that 1500 you paid in 1985 would be £4,540.92 in today's money adjusted for inflation, and that gets you the mid-range Giant TCR with 12 speed 105 I showed with 500 change...

[@COBMapler]

​@davidarthur his bike was top end and that tcr is mid range. top end bikes are always overpriced as they are halo products, so the fact that a top end from back then adjusts to just being enough for a VERY mid range bike now is still ridiculous.

[@br5380]

@@COBMapler My S-Works Enduro mtb in 2006 was £3.6k; Fox 36, full XTR but still an alloy frame. £5k now would easily buy an equivalently performing bike compared to £7k (inflation increase from £3.6k) I 'spent'.

[@davidarthur]

@@COBMapler yes that's a fair point of course, really hard to make direct comparisons. I wonder if all the advances on the frame, wheels, groupsets in terms of performance but also durability on a modern bike is worth factoring in, because in that way the two bikes from different eras aren't really comparable, factors into this discussion around price and value. Like an 80s Ferrari is trounced by a mid-range brand new car from the 2010s... though I'd still rather have the Ferrari even though it's more likely to break down and not be as safe or fuel efficient and won't have apple CarPlay!

[@COBMapler]

@@br5380 id love to see what 5k mtb you are seeing that comes with xtr

[@gaborozorai3714]

Would be really interesting to see the costs of bike manufacturing in detail. Everyone's making the motorbike comparison for good reason. The amount of design work that's put in, parts count, complexity, material quality, dealer network, warranty and who knows what else: how do bikes and motorcycles even remotely compare? And then people say the new tech such as hydraulic disc brakes and electronic shifting makes bikes expensive. Ridiculous.

[@Andy_ATB]

Exactly!!! R&D in a motorbike is miles ahead of a simple bicycle.......

[@flamencoguru]

To be honest, only if you need a new bike or if you completely wrecked your bike do you need a new bike. We've become such a consumer society where we think we need the latest model... Is the bike really going to make you ride better??? Most likely not.

[@Roger101Watson]

For such a hot topic, which is also the main focus of your title, I was expecting you to spend a lot more time on bike pricing. This topic needs its own video, David. Get some brands, dealers etc to talk about it.

[@davidarthur]

Good idea for 2025 👍

[@simon1cz]

Are new bikes really overpriced? Of course - YES! Moreover, the quality of the products often does not even match the stated price. The manufacturer's margin, the seller's margin in connection with our (meaning customer) approach of the modern era, is thus turned directly against us.

[@Benjay1975]

Just like legacy car manufacturers, current bikes makers are ripping people off, it's utterly outrageous

[@MichaelWilliams-iv6dj]

I noticed that the new Colnago is about $6500 for the frame module but $16000 for the complete bike. The best wheels, group and seat are at most $8000, so you are paying thousands of dollars to build the bike, never mind that Colnago doesn’t pay full retail for parts. What that tells me is that I need to get into the bike building business.

[@lucneree2270]

Prices are out of control. I think the industry is gonna have to adjust the prices a bit, and the market is going to favor big direct to consumer brands like canyon who offer great bikes at affordable prices.

[@terrillford7784]

Spending 4k on a bike with a mechanical groupset seems crazy

[@terrillford7784]

@jooohan-i9o i agree

[@thejeffinvade]

Last generation BMC roadmachine 5 with 105 di2 and Al wheels costs $3465 CAD in my local bike shop before taxes. That’s the cheapest new 105 Di2 with carbon frame road bike I can find in Toronto. After taxes it would cost $3915CAD=£2178

[@tmbacz]

@@thejeffinvade, So I recently bought a used 2018 BMC for 1200USD. Was thinking about spending an additional ~800 upgrades and just be happy with what I have.. Try to make it last..

[@wildsurfer12]

My new bike which I got in November with SRAM Rival etap thankfully only cost £2639. That’s not a cheap bike, but you can get a great frame with electronic shifting without spending £4000+.

[@thejeffinvade]

Last generation BMC roadmachine 5 with 105 di2 and Al wheels costs $3465 CAD in my local bike shop before taxes. That’s the cheapest new 105 Di2 with carbon frame road bike I can find in Toronto. For reference, CAD$3465=1,927.72 Pound

[@COBMapler]

The question isn't even debatable. Profit margins on selling bikes have gone up drastically since 2020. They used to be around 30% and now they are 50%. Top end bikes used to have an even smaller margin, closer to 25%. That's why you see discounts on bikes being so steep; dealers have more margin to work with when discounting.

[@KevinTerrelonge]

The point everyone is making is that these are the prices the bike should be without the huge discounts, and they are only doing because bike sales are down 😂

[@Mr_Zzzeee]

Put a deposit on a Secan 2.5 frame a couple months ago and found out recently they are upgrading my order to a 3.0 - can't wait!

[@royanderson3478]

Arthur is paid $ by manufacturer. Be wise with reviews.

[@Mr_Zzzeee]

@@royanderson3478 Thanks for the advice, but I've ridden a 2.5 already (my friend has one), so I'm good.

[@davidarthur]

@royanderson3478 What a load of nonsense this comment is. Maybe be wise before spouting rubbish ?

[@siyuanliu4581]

I've been eyeing for a Secan 2.5 for half a year and finally pulled the trigger when I saw the 3.0 came out a few days ago.

[@Murrax1]

I got my 2.5 secan a couple of months ago. Doesn’t look like the 3.0 is that much difference no buyers remorse here as it’s an amazing bike

[@siyuanliu4581]

@@Murrax1 Yeah it's more like a refinement, both are amazing bikes!

[@matthewlewis2072]

I haven't paid full price for a bike since...the 1980s. Current Tarmac SL6, Cotic Escapade, Pinnacle winter bike...all at least 20% off. Wait for the sales, folks...

[@the_real_cansin]

I really don't understand why a Giant TCR Advanced 2 (not even a pro) is not good enough for an amateur rider or even for a pro for training rides...

[@robertobersanini5877]

This 100%. People always complain about the 15k bikes like they're the only one available. There are plenty of very good bike with a smaller price tag. But still everybody act like they absolutely need the 5k € wheels to save 130g on their Sunday loop ride with friends. Like I need a fu***ng Bugatti to go grocery shopping.

[@yonglingng5640]

I've ridden the ninth-generation TCR Advanced Disc, it really is enough for many riders. If anything, just stiffen up the fork blades.

[@abhimawa1]

The more I look at your Fairlight, the more I think of the good old days and think about selling my modern bikes. Think of it as the poor man’s Colnago SteelNovo. Good video, David

[@br5380]

Except the Fairlight rides like a modern bike... And they were only the "good old days" because you were younger.

[@5891jonathan]

I don’t see the problem. There are plenty of options at different price points. Furthermore, pre-owned bicycles can be purchased at a fraction of the cost of new bicycles. Some people just like to complain.

[@therealcountrybumpkin]

It’s the fact that corporations moved everything to China, lowered their costs, and raised them for us. They get the break and we dont

[@lucasherculano5563]

People love complaining… there are plenty of options available for a new bike with great performance at a friendly budget. Problem is that people want to buy a top tier Colnago for 3k ….

[@Andy_ATB]

Well you're part of the problem trying to justify these prices. No bicycle should be over £5K......The R&D for a simple frame can never be justified - we're all being ripped off.

[@joshuacollins5546]

Just bought a Ridley noah with Shimano 105 disc 11 speed for 1599 feels like a pro bike. Same frame set as used in Tdf just slightly cheaper carbon adding 100g. Feels such a step up from my 2018 caad 12 which will now be my wet weather bike/ commuter. I payed 1250 for that bike in 2018 so pretty much same price as 1599 in today's. Only now it gets me pro level frame and hydraulic discs and pretty high end components excluding the Shimano rs wheel's. What Im trying to say is there is bloody good bike's out there for relatively cheap price's especially in winter and last year's stock

[@mikekobal]

Bike Prices are ooc... emperor's new clothes...

[@deanf2259]

The problem with the Fairlight is the sizing, They call a 51cm seat as a small. When many companies offer extra small with sizes down to 44cm or 45 cm seat tubes. I have a Genesis CdF Ti extra small which has a 47 cm seat tube. Giant on the TCR and Revolt call a 47 cm seat tube frame a medium? With small going down to 44 cm.

[@thejeffinvade]

Last generation BMC roadmachine 5 with 105 di2 and Al wheels costs $3465 CAD in my local bike shop before taxes. That’s the cheapest new 105 Di2 with carbon frame road bike I can find in Toronto.

[@Millicente]

I’ve been looking at a fairlight. Is the secan as smooth to ride or smoother than something like an Aethos or the C68? Never owned steel so I have no reference.

[@kennethelsman3959]

Just had to purchase a new car and it had at least 8 extras I didn’t want but was told we can’t get you what you want. I might suggest the same thing in the bike world. I might want a simple all weather basic bike, no batteries, no disc brakes as a simple training bike and perhaps a second nicer bike for group rides. Or I want to try out cycling and not over spend. My point is the range of bikes seems limited to what they want to sell, with too many over engineered and expensive solutions when most folks just want a $1750 (US) bike to ride for fun and exercise with family or friends.

[@stijndeklerk]

I'm building up a frame (WinSpace) with new components (Dura Ace). My aim is a sub 6.8Kg build . I'm expecting to be paying around 5KEuro, all in (by shopping around for offers etc..). I don't believe any of the companies I purchase from are selling me stuff at a loss. Then how is it possible that a similarly speccéd, off the peg & brand new bike, can easily set you back double this amount. The margins in the industry are simply to big.. Anyone buying a top tier bike at RRP is a thief to their own wallet.

[@MikeKoPhotography]

buy previous year model 3/4 to 1/2 the price for 90-95%% of a new model

[@HarryFunmaker]

Prices have gotten out of control for top-end bikes, but the good news is that the lower end bikes are better than ever. On top of that, buying directly from China is easier than it's ever been with a lot less risk involved. I can understand why people are attracted to the most expensive bikes, but the truth is that you can have a lot of fun on a cheaper bike, so there's no real need for complaining. I've always bought used and probably always will. The biggest piece of tech I want to see is UDH on road bikes.

[@AdamAnderson-y2q]

Yes of course, a bicycle shouldn't cost as much as a car

[@GregTitcume]

You cant compare bikes to the car or motorcycle industry as they own all their production unlike bicycle brands that out source all their production.

[@jonm8423]

No one offering better value than Cube at the moment, Particularly on Ultegra DI2 bikes

[@adunford2664]

A motorcycle is more complex than a bicycle. So I find it odd that there are cycles more expensive than motorbikes. Rip off comes to mind.

[@FML22]

In Jan 2019 I bought a 2018 Focus Mares carbon with 105 components for €1888. It was admittedly an inventory clearance unit in a 51cm frame, so they really wanted to get it out of the shop. But I think an entry-level carbon bike should start around €/£/$2000, not €/£/$3500.

[@jamesbrickwood7414]

Stuff all stock from specialized or Trek in Australia at discounted prices. Only sizes at the extremes.

[@badcredentials4230]

I think new bike pricing is fine if you consider purchasing other categories of brand new high end luxury items, it’s not like people are trying to buy the equivalent of a mid priced hatchback, they want the GTR, Porsche, AMG etc.. I just bought a brand new roadie but did a lot of research and waited to find the right sale price, the bike would have been well out of my price range at full cost but Trek Australia is moving a bit of stock out so I’m on an Ultegs Di2 carbon bike for $5k Aus. I wouldn’t be able to justify paying +$20k for a top end roadie but I also can’t justify commuting in a new Porsche either so it’s fine for me. People who can afford that stuff usually ride it for a short time (sparingly) and move it on so the top end bikes work their way to everyone’s price point, at some point before making the landfill. In around 2010 I got an Orbea Orca from Euskaltel after they raced the tour down under, it had Zipp tubs, full Dura-Ace and some prototype/pro stuff on there from FSA that wasn’t available to the public and the time and the price was probably 1/5th of what the bike cost new, they pretty much dumped them. It was a ripper bike though, some minor cosmetic issues from the transport and team cars but everything structural was fantastic and while I didn’t remotely have the legs the pro had it was a really great bike to own and race on. I’ve also bought ex-pro/team wheels for the track and other stuff before and it’s always worked out well for me. Do it!

[@sgp7975]

I've got a Boardman SLR, upgraded the wheels, so the total cost is £2500. Even my riding mate cannot see how it's worth so much less than his 10k Specialized S-Works.

[@RyonBeachner]

Just priced a Tavelo Aero, CRW Wheels, 105 DI2 (at the cheapest discount I could find in google), a set of GP5000’s and $100 for a saddle with no labor for assembly, it’s $5500 before any shipping, tax (import duties in the US would add another 20% at least), or assembly. Yeah, if China direct bikes are that much money, why are people mad at the Western brands? Specialized, Giant, Trek, etc employ large numbers of people in local markets, sponsor teams and help promote the sport. Tavelo just gives bikes to youtubers? People aren’t interested in the reality of the situation, which is that consumers arent getting screwed, their governments have simply inflated away their purchasing power, and their wages haven’t risen. I’m sorry that it’s inconvenient, I’m sorry that it may bruised your ego that you can’t afford a bike you could 30 years ago, but that’s happened outside the control of the bike industry.

[@andysteadman8851]

Yes, the general public are charged for the technology that goes into research and materials that the pro's use for racing that we do not actually need. I have always bought last years or older as they become better value but are still over priced

[@johnnyjensen8805]

Funny that manufacturers designs racing bikes more towards e-bikes and e-bikes towards “older” racing bikes.

[@531c]

Without doubt its possible to pay as much for pedal cycle as a motorcycle and that comparison is valid. Anyone paying full rrp today would be a fool with huge discounts available. FWIW, this applies to motorcycles. I make the following comparison, in 1996 i paid £750 for a steel (531c) framed bike with shimano rx100 a 16 speed groupset. Today £750 would buy a heavily discounted bike with functionally better gears and brakes as well as being llighter. As consumers we make the choice whether to spend our money on a bike or not, the bike manufactures attempt to lure customers to part with their cash with the promise of the latest technology. A £10k bike is unlikely to be functionally better or faster than a £2500 bike. As it happens im a Fairlight fanboy owning from new a strael3. However, to hear that the statenent that the secan 3 has been designed to have increased compliance in the seatstays when the bike is likely running 45 mm tyres is nonsense. Again this is purely marketing. Fairlight put together great bikes and they have to market the latest iteration of each model to sell more bikes.

[@matthewlewis2072]

Love that Fairlight in orange 😍😍😍😍

[@neilwheel]

The price reflects what the buyer is prepared to pay, so if someone is prepared to pay over the top, then they're the ones ripping themselves off!

[@EvilestGem]

I think you need to go further back than 2020 to get the bigger picture.

[@Mickthemove_]

Don't forget the 600 quid they are charging for shipping of those pro bikes...........

[@OerlikonNoerd]

Two words: real wages. Wage growth has not kept pace with inflation or productivity (at least in the United States).

[@Danilyn_Livao]

David, you always provide such well-researched content! Your perspective on bike pricing and the new models is a must-watch for anyone in the market for a bike 🙌

[@WilliamMcCannMurphy]

Bike magazines, KZbin channels are infatuated by crazy expensive bikes, yes bikes are way too overpriced. I ride Kinesis, amazing bikes and fantastic prices that normal people can afford to have a punt at. There’s also the hype about performance,unless you’re a high end athlete where the top tier bikes will help you compete with the best, maybe just maybe these crazy prices can be justified. For normal everyday bike riders, there are amazing bike brands out there where value will astound you.

[@stevevarga8621]

I have a steel gravel bike and a carbon gravel bike. I can’t feel a difference in ride. I truly don’t feel the frame material makes a big difference. Wheels and tires have a much bigger impact to override whatever the frame material may offer. I can say that steel frames are literally twice the weight and can rust if you don’t keep it clean and dry.

[@slayer6936]

I'm looking at getting a titanium Reilly Fusion so rust will not be a issue plus at 64 it will last me the rest of my life.

[@stevevarga8621]

@ If I may offer my life experience being a long time cyclist. I have a Ti bike. I think frame material is not that important. Ti is nice because you can polish out scratches and it doesn’t rust but don’t expect this magical ride, that’s very over stated. The big negative is price. They are so expensive for something that weighs twice as much as a carbon frame. Yes, it will last longer but I get bored with my bikes after 6, 7, 8 years and want a change. But if you do keep your bike for decades and don’t care that they weight twice as much and you can afford the price, go for it. I did but I keep it in my bike museum as a reminder of my past decisions.

[@kevinhodgson3935]

Reduce the pro peloton speeds by limiting the gearing being used !

[@davidbell1250]

That's a sensible idea actually, maybe all 1x and 12-36 maximum. For a radical idea make them all singlespeed!

[@automat8]

Thanks! Dave

[@thejeffinvade]

105 12 speed vs ultegra 11 speed TCR isn’t a fair comparison. Technology has improved, electronic shifting is the norm now, you can't say new 12s mechanical offer the same level of performance as old 11 s Ultegra thus it is the same level of groupset, because performance of everyone else has improved, there is a new benchmark.

[@drmoynihan]

Electronic shifting is not my new normal or most of the guys I ride wirh.

[@thejeffinvade]

@ it’s the new normal for the professional peloton and any new bikes. Old ultegra mechanical give you 95% of performance of dura ace with 200g weight penalty, only new ultegra R8100 can give you the same performance, that’s the only apple vs apple comparison. I upgraded from my Bianchi Oltre 2017 with ultegra R6800 11s mechanical to giant defy 2023 with ultegra 12s Di2 R8100. He needs to compare the cost of ultegra to ultegra

[@terrillford7784]

Polygon has some good deals

[@autothrust330]

Do you still have disposable income? That’s the question.

[@ampgb223]

Sigma have SL8 Tarmac Di 2024 for £8399 and Sram Red for £9500

[@Ian-Saxon]

If manufacturers can slash 55% off the previous RRP is just shows how much we are being taken for a ride and/or it shows the industry are starting to realise we are wising up to the modern luxury rip off bike culture.

[@laurinweisser4967]

Tbh calculating the prices of the top end bikes 10-20 years ago into nowdays, their nearly the same with few top end bikes being really overpriced because of inovation…….but everything from 5-10k has always been the pricerange of top end bikes. The only difference nowadays is, that you can get 90% of the perfomance from top end bikes for a half of the price with chinese brands or top end used bikes from 2-3 years ago which aswell deliver incredible performance. Its like being mad about Bugatti building cars for 1-5mio it makes no sense. There are many people buying these expensive things which is good because through them brands can develop new technologys because they now people will buy it, otherwise they would start publishing new colours each year for the same bikes. I would even say that people are able to buy top notch products cheaper every year for example look how powermeters went from 3000-300 in few years. I get very mad every time david shows new bikes the first comment is “ah again to expensive” every year people want more and more but wanting to spend less and less its the same Problem in every kind of life also known as consume

[@ThePeter123a]

In contrast to motorsport or sailing, there are no different material regulations for the racing classes in cycling. Even in the lowest racing class you can compete with equipment like the Tour de France if you can afford it.

[@Cycle.every.day.]

Beat high prices by buying used.

[@chrisscott8362]

Prices for new bikes from mainline Western mfg is insulting. I’m looking to Chinese providers for value. And I include Shimano and Sram in there. Sensa and wheeltop to the rescue in a next generation from them.

[@Nat-DAVID]

For me and for the new incoming 2025 season i will buy a new bike and that probably will be a Polygon helios A8X simply because great value for money. I will buy with it a good pair of wheels (Farsport probably) and for around 6500€ will get a great bike. Of course buying a "big brand" bike like specialized tarmac SL8 swork or even pro would be great BUT way too expensive!!! same for trek, BMC, factor so on and so forth. You pay for marketing i guess.

[@wordupcornflake]

way to pricey

[@andreemurray7039]

The bike trade is taking the wee with the very high prices not everyone wants disc brakes and electric gearing simple cable gearing and rim brakes I fell I'm being forced to change and can not afford to change

[@simondavis9439]

The bike industry should be ashamed of itself,I own a team ag2r BMC slor1 EPS super record all singing all dancing,I've just bought last week on eBay cervlo S3 rim brake , wheels average mavics, ultegra manual,680 Pound it's lighter and honestly a better ride than the 10 grand plus bike .

[@benjaminmirt5029]

Wait a minute how can you so casually drop the fact that inflation is so outrageous that 3600 pound in 2022 would be 4470 pound now? twenty five percent devaluattion in 2! TWO years??!?! why isnt that on the news

[@paulofigueroa2606]

no way i pay full money x carbon

[@ploegdbq]

No fair comparing mid-tier bikes that most folks would want to buy! Seriously, mid-tier is great, and it's a shame you don't see more mid-tier models out there. They're usually good machines out of the box, and if you don't care for the wheels and tires, you can upgrade those easily enough and still be ahead.

[@mistersmith158]

simple answer is yes yes yes and yes

[@paulbailey7641]

Ridiculous moneys for bikes.

[@darkstar8098]

overpriced lets say call it scam/marketing. how could a regular Joe Shmoe reach the level of super high speed and use the advatange of a Aero bike? it does have huge advantage on normal speed it works only on really high speed. could a reagular Joe Shmoe take out the advantage of lees 500 g on a new bike? why should he can't simple eat less and save some extra weight...most of the ACTUALLY value or what you could ACTUALLY gain from a new bike it's most of the time marketing nonsens and probably 5 % of the people could take out the real benefits.

[@billyblanco8106]

More tech + planned obsolescence = higher $...for everything these days...gotta LOL...🤪

[@ralfmimoun2826]

Way overpriced, and the Giant from 2020 is not the best example if you add discounts into the calculation. In 2020, I got my Trek Emonda SL7 for about 3.500 pound. That means that I got a 30% discount to the orginal retail price. The bike has carbon wheels, disc brakes and a full Force AXS 12 speed groupset. Now, gogole fopr the price of the current Emonda SL7 with more or less the identical Force groupset.

[@walterlippmann4361]

YES you're getting ripped off. This sport is wayyy too expensive.

[@rainbowchamelion1051]

Maybe people should build their own bike. Then you can taylor the entire bike to what you need plus it will be way cheaper.

[@br5380]

Go price it up, and find out (it's probably not).

[@stijndeklerk]

Exactly, what I'm currently doing.

[@Mr_Zzzeee]

Yup. Some people don't realize it's actually cheaper, because they fail to realize when you buy a complete, you usually need to swap out the stem, handlebars, wheels, saddle.

[@stijndeklerk]

@@br5380 Start with a discounted Dura Ace R9200 groupset for 50% off RRP & see how much change that leaves you.. I'm not kidding.

[@rainbowchamelion1051]

@@br5380 Already built 3 bikes including a titanium bike. That one set me off down the self build path because I could not afford to buy one complete.

[@grahambowes756]

I recently got an S-Works Aethos 2024 model new at 35% discount. Still an expensive bike, but a useful saving.