Are buttons on keyboards a thing of the past? Using shift buttons to create new controls?

[@billhenley2332]

As a Classical and Theater trained organist I couldn't agree more. Primary functions should always have direct button, slider or knob control. I also have a strong software background and understand that features will become available that were not considered at the time of the instruments release. These are special cases and as AI becomes more and more embedded in CPUs new features will become available which weren't even a possibility when the product was launched. This is where we, the musicians, have to accept the fact that if we want these features we're going to have to adapt to this new world. Otherwise we will be stuck waiting on the next hardware release of a given instrument and no one wants that wait time.

[@gges1605]

There have been buttons behind other buttons on laptops for example for a very long time you have alt and fnc buttons and different combinations of shift + other buttons so it really doesn't surprise me that they are doing it this way as its cheaper to manufacture instrument with less buttons, the other way to look at it is that too many buttons could also become confusing

[@drinternatg6391]

Well said.

[@timlinke2450]

It’s as they are doing with screens in cars now, you have to go down 3 levels deep to change the heater! All while driving the car! Makes no sense at all. Buttons, give me more buttons, I love buttons!! Thank you for your perspective.

[@LeighWilbraham]

Common sense is going through the window because someone at Yamaha thinks that pianos should have to work with an iPad. DITCH the iPad and stick to your own control system. What happens when the app is no longer supported. It's a BAD BAD idea and I sincerely hope that Yamaha continue the CVP range of instruments and don't go down the app pathway.

[@jonachvdb-music3837]

For me as a blind keyboard player, the touch screens are a Big Problem! I can’t use a genos keyboard, so my last things I’ve bought were the psr sx 9-… keyboards.., because they still have the category buttons.

[@LeighWilbraham]

There's SO many negatives to using a tablet. However, we will all be told there's benefits because they don't care about the customer and what's best for them.

[@TerryEphgrave]

Agree wholeheartedly Leigh; the day buttons disappear is the day I stop buying. All the functions of a keyboard should be in the instrument easily accessible in order for you to play it. Hiding things at a lower level is fine for those things that are not changed during a performance, but that isn't many things. Having ipads controlling functions on the keyboard is fine as an 'add-on' but not as the main function, not only that, it is adding over £1K to the price of an already expensive piece of kit.

[@stevelewis4183]

…couldn’t agree more Leigh ! I’ve been using my iPad since last summer and up to this day I never know whether I am actually ‘logged in’ or not ! It would seem that my iPad reads your instructions differently to a laptop…..and don’t get me started on downloading to a memory stick ! The port on the iPad is a different size to a ‘normal’ USB so I had to purchase a Scandisk one, with each end being different sizes ? Made no difference , as I am still unable to transfer data from the iPad to my Genos 1. The iPad refuses to recognise receiving any data at all and tells me it’s….”in the wrong format….” ? ‘Have almost given up trying now and all I’ve been able to do is ‘store’ your videos (more than 60 so far) until such time as I can be ‘rescued’ by a more qualified computer Nerd than myself ! In any event, thanks for all your hard work so far. It means so much to many of us.

[@LeighWilbraham]

iPad isn’t a computer and isn’t a replacement for. It’s a tablet and as such it only does a fraction of what a computer does.

[@tonylawton6633]

I agree with you that all functions should be visible on a button & instantly accessible whilst playing live. When we first read the instructions & discover where a function resides, but a few weeks down the line, can we still remember where it was? My biggest grips with this fabulous instrument is why was it decided to put the multipage buttons on the right hand side? It mean that either you have to take your right hand off the keys which means a gap in the flow of the music, or one has reach across with the left hand to reach the buttons. Certainly not natural IMHO

[@LeighWilbraham]

@@tonylawton6633 I agree ☝️

[@MsBlackhorse23]

I still like to use printed music and I don’t like the direct access button on the right hand side; it was more convenient to the left of the registration memory buttons, and the chord looper should have been put where the direct access button is now.

[@brianwebb-vr4il]

Spot on Leigh

[@ExeCodger]

Hi Leigh. A good point you make and can equally be an issue with other non-musical items. Sadly, I fear designers are often detached from end user reality by embedding too many features at the expense of practicality. I have a Genos 2 linked to a Galaxy S8 Tab2 Android 12" tablet via a bluetooth adaptor with MobileSheets Pro on the music rest to display my sheet music, which in turn sets up the Genos 2 registrations via MIDI. Whilst playing a piece in no way would I wish to start pressing software keys on the tablet as that would definitely hinder playing the keyboard. If manufacturers adopt this approach it would stop me upgrading my keyboard in future and I've had a good number over the last three decades of playing. BTW, I've just joined the Genos2 club and am looking forward to exploring what is in the library and hoping to pick up many tips in the process.

[@LeighWilbraham]

@@ExeCodger my car has touch screen. Try adjusting the temperature whilst looking at the screen and driving. Change for sake of.

[@sparkyjim18]

Have to agree with you Leigh, I am looking at a work station to go with my Genos. I love the sound of the Korg Nautilus but no hands on controls and a screen with everything crammed on. So it looks like the Roland Fantom 07 with plenty of buttons and sliders.

[@eric6500]

you are absolutely right 👍

[@Del640]

Me no likeee! They can take a hikeee! … Over-complicate a process in 2-uneasy steps! You need to be able to move around efficiently, not stumbling over extra fingers you haven’t got… Good video again though Leigh, thanks for the heads-up.

[@glenalex1]

As I understand it, the next CVP series out will be iPad based also. Who on earth is going to spend the kind of money they cost to use an iPad? Absolute nuts. BUTTONS RULE!

[@LeighWilbraham]

@@glenalex1 that would be terrible. CVP is an iconic instrument. Is it going to be the same as the electone?

[@channel_AW]

I agree, SHIFT+Button is not really an approach for a live performance without any indication of the called function. A proposal could be: If there are multiple functions of a button, then below the button on the panel the (for example 3) functions should be written, and then there could/should be LEDs visualizing the actual setting/function. For example there could be 3 'lines' of LEDs below the style buttons, and then on the left a 'selection' button to switch between the functions 1-3 indicated then with an LED. The Genos buttons 'slider assign' or 'knob asisgn' are currently working in this way (you press, and the shown function changes, indicated in the small display).

[@Del640]

I was just logging in to add Patreon and realised, I need to buy that Genos that bills keep evading, may join anyway shortly, just so am prepared for your insights. Still have the 6 keyboards here I could sell but attached to, so it’s push before shove, or a shove before push… so torn as Nat Imbru sung! It’s the sliders that really getting my goat at the moment, that really is a bind for me Leigh… Anyway, thanks for acknowledging all my nonsensical comments, my humour is as dry as a sandpit…

[@Del640]

A flip-up screen the length of the keyboard and no time-out on the pad, maybe enough space for what’s needed if the screen is also 3 feet high! A diesel generator pumping on the side to give a vibrating backing to powerhouse the medley? Who knows? Progressives gone futile! … oooh, how about wearing widescreen blink operated glasses? … Have I just given them an idea?

[@LeighWilbraham]

@@Del640 hahahah

[@awnashed]

💯right.

[@paulcook468]

Wholeheartedly agree. 👍

[@georgewilson119]

I agree with you, prefer buttons to I pad,keep them separate.

[@johncarter2741]

Yes. A shift plus a button press does and will detract from the performance. It makes you more concerned about the hitting the right sequence or order of presses rather than playing. It made me think about maybe a long press of a button to access the hidden function. But again that detracts also. Knob (or button) per function is the way to go. Yes it will cost more but at this level of instrument what does a good slack handful of buttons cost? Another 50 quid?

[@janestocker]

What they should be doing is laying the current buttons better for better live performance, ie Genos could be better laid out ie harmony button right side move it nearer to the left, move pads to left hand side Keep it simple for live performance 😊

[@LeighWilbraham]

I agree 100%

[@DiegoDourado]

Com a introdução das telas de toque os botões diminuiram deixando o teclado mais organizado. Mas agora, as vezes falta alguma função que precisamos mais rapidamente. Eu tinha e sx900 e troquei pelo sx920. Queria mais botões live control e assinalaveis com led. Outra função que sempre precisei é a opção de colocar a partitura midi fixa no monitor externo e não somente letras.

[@johnburns5783]

Other than putting more buttons on, what do you suggest manufacturers do ? Would you buy a keyboard with a hundred buttons so all functions had a separate button ?

[@DionSchleepen]

I agree, i like the buttons on the genos , its easy to find what i need. Thats wy i love yamaha keyboards.

[@matthewmeno5279]

Buttons on keyboards are very important. If they make it to where it's all touch screen, that's very bad! Now, I don't see why we need a shift button. What in the heck does that thing do?

[@billhenley2332]

It's just not possible to have both worlds. Hardware changes (adding buttons) is an extremely expensive thing for any manufacturer to do. It's as if you're expecting a DAW supplier to completely redesign their user interface with every new feature but even more so. I've used my PA4x for years now with Ableton Live and another workstation keyboard which now happens to be a Kurzweil K2700. I considered a PA5x but I was so used to my 4x that adding the K2700 and a Novation Launchpad X basically gave me a PA5x on Steroids. Between my PA4x, K2700, M1 MacBook Pro and Ableton Live I've got a world class studio at a ridiculous low price. I'm old enough to have seen MIDI introduced at the 1982 NAMM Show and never thought I'd see the day when I could write, play, mix and release a song which was literally studio grade but that day has arrived. For myself, writing down a couple of shortcuts to achieve a certain function is a small price to pay compared to new hardware which I also have vast experience with when it comes to design and manufacturing.

[@bakerman3039]

This is a smashing of Ketron and Korg which are indeed trying to overfill their keyboards with little touch functions. How to use a "touch" button while playing I don't know. The new MPC line is also nearly completely on "touch". You can't use it on long time. I think to feel a button on your finger tips, to hear the click, to feel the release ... it's pure satisfaction for the user. You don't feel a button when you put a finger on a glass display. That's the main point. It's slick and looks good but glass is not for touching.

[@gonkeyhughes]

Older people have the money to buy 4k keyboard but memory is starting to fade so its not usefull we need buttons 1 button 1 use

[@JimEd.Huston]

You are right Leigh I prefer the old way, buttons quick and easy on the fly. I have an SX 900, two rotary knobs on the left you have no direct control over one single instrument voice, you have to eliminate other voices to get to it. SLIDES & BUTTONS for live playing, as every room acoustic is different. It is just cheap & easy for the company's & a headache for the performer to concentrate on his or her performance away from the instrument. Its definitely gone backwards by the designers & backroom boys ok for the home hobbyist. It doesn't take too long to contain or configure a map of many buttons & memorise their assignments in the brain,. You can't memorise shift buttons behind other buttons. plus it delays the process. You have to press three shifts to get to what you require on some things in the SX700 /SX900. where as one slide to one instrument , you are on the ball each time to make a change.

[@guidografe8339]

Onced I would like to get the Jupiter 80 as a workstation … but the price was the problem - then the Jupiter 50 nearly the same mashine but a smaller screen - but… with an iPad-App the screen-problem should be resolved … I was waiting, could not decide and then the Korg Kronos came along -… side-story : Roland quit the support for the necessary IPad-App of the Jupiter 80/50 and I was glad not to have bought the Jupiter. Later I discovered that this was an old support - problem of the roland company to give up the support for „older“ products😢

[@goexploretv7084]

Leigh, Hopefully since Yamaha also makes the Stagea organ, they will continue to use buttons in Genos. We always have had buttons on organs and hopefully they will stick with that strategy here. If they don’t then it will seriously impede performance. Totally agree. Productive rant! Hey Yamaha are you listening? 😁

[@ThomasRdh]

Good afternoon, technology goes forward and items controls are going backwards!!

[@gonkeyhughes]

One button single use on keyboards

[@gonkeyhughes]

Hello buttons

[@Denvermorgan2000]

I will never buy an instrument without buttons or an external screen like an iPad and korg uses shift buttons and I never liked it.

[@LeighWilbraham]

@@Denvermorgan2000 a very bad idea using shift

[@janpfeuffer7076]

Shift doesn't make sense, direct access doesn't make sense... holding down a button for longer is the best way to go in deeper, especially while you are playing. Yamaha should question their ergonomical concepts sometimes. Roland and Technics have proven that it works like a charm. And of course we need both, a touch screen and real hardware buttons.

[@LeighWilbraham]

@janpfeuffer7076 it clearly didn’t as Technics no longer make keyboards.

[@janpfeuffer8115]

@@LeighWilbraham haha, touché. But why would you want to press two buttons when you only have to press one? Simplicity is what you asked for initially, isn't it?

[@LeighWilbraham]

@ absolutely agree 👍

[@davidfinnigan4742]

I couldn't agree with you more Leigh! It's so nonsensical!

[@KBpro54]

Since these boards are mostly „for boomers only“, I‘m confident Big Y won‘t go down that road. 😏