Are Content Creators TOXIC for Dead by Daylight?

[@themrheadacheQ1]

The Us versus Them mentality is probably the worst and most toxic aspect of the DBD community. I'm very glad that you highlighted it and how content creators feed that awful mentality. Very great video!

[@magiclvl0]

I agree

[@edwardmartin3549]

For dbd yes

[@tylersullivan4446]

Have you done a video on breakable walls yet and map balance

[@JoHnNyChAoSMuSiC]

I 100% agree on this. The “mains” in this community inadvertently telling people how a game should be from their perspective is what makes people have these false ideas on how the opposition is supposed to play. I’ve been saying this for a long time and I’m glad it’s finally being highlighted. Certain creators need to really understand their influence and how their opinions can very easily shape others view and then we get what we have the us versus them mentality

[@SirTriton]

A us versus them mentality is the natural outcome when there is a game with 2 sides to play as It’s just a shame that this mentality causes a lot of toxicity

[@Atomiwilo]

I think another thing that damages the community is the “toxic gameplay” creators. With titles like “toxic survivor” or “toxic killer”. With play styles that just promote bm.

[@funnybunny19]

I agree, seeing a camping insidious bubba, you know the opposite side won’t be happy going against it, and when they say they’re not happy, it equals apparent salt.

[@Iron_Cutlass]

The "Us VS Them" mentality really does show on the forums, probably more than any other place in DbD community. I remember I made a post asking if people give hatch and someone wrote several paragraphs explaining that I am a horrible person for giving hatch and saying that "I only do it to benefit myself". They tried to say that I was purposely lowering my MMR by doing it when I was just doing it to be kind to others. They claimed that I was being selfish and was purposely amplifying the issues of the game (and made a few remarks about me playing killer as if it was some horrible thing). It kind of sat with me for a bit and I took a break from the game since I really didnt know if what I was doing had negative effects on others. Obviously, I came to realization that it was just overall a dumb thing to really think about, and after doing research you still gain a lot of MMR rating despite giving hatch and survivors dont lose or gain MMR by them getting hatch. But I think it goes to show that all it takes is a tiny bit of influence is really push people into a negative direction, and that all people do is just feed into the negative mentality. "Anything the other side does is bad and here is why" but lacks the empathy to see one's intentions or see what the other side is going through, not everything is done with the malicious intent but they fail to see it.

[@shurmarr]

The worst thing about dbd content creators are the influence on what the community can think. For example content creator posts video of him playing killer getting looped for 3+ gens and the influencer eventually loses the game. The influencer gets upset and the audience now is left with the thought that the game is too unfair. This is easy to see, for example watch an Otzdarva stream, if Otz loses a game badly the chat is saying, “survivor sided game”, “dead hard is unfair”, “they need to nerf *(insert perk)* “. This isn’t always the case but how easily people’s opinions on dbd changes due to how the KZbinr/Streamer is feeling could be a bit toxic for the game.

[@navyblueprince]

Great video, Gary. I really love how in-depth you go into topics and take the time to include references to articles and videos.

[@Starrfortythree]

The last time I faced a literal face-camping Bubba was a soloQ game on Temple of Purgation.. the other 3 survivors actually split up and absolutely slammed the remaining gens and all escaped while I gave Bubba his only kill. Not even trolling, I was so happy they all knew exactly how to punish the camp so I made sure not to attempt a Kobe to maximize their time to get out🥳

[@Alex-kn7cb]

This is a very well-produced video. Love how informative, respectful and honest-feeling your video is. Totally earned a sub. Can't overstate how great it is to see refetenced materials in the description.

[@TheMrFancyKiwi]

I think one thing you missed when comparing DBD to other games like League of Legends and Rainbow Six Siege is the match length and time investment. If you are having a bad match in DBD you can be out and in your next one in under ten minutes. In LoL or Siege you can be stuck in an unfun match for over half an hour easily. So while you got ether camped or tunneled out of the match it was only a few minutes of your time and, like you said, survivor queues are fast right now. In LoL if you get ganked on repeat and set so far behind you can’t do anything you’re just screwed. You’re stuck in match not able to anything but try to not die for over half an hour.

[@ThndrMge]

Yeah, this was my thoughts when he brought those comparisons up. DBD matches rarely last more than 20 minutes, and the killer is the one who is stuck in the game the longest, because as long as there is 1 survivor, they have to keep playing. Survivor games can last anywhere from 5 minutes to 20 minutes. Getting camped and tunneled out of a game really isn't that big a deal UNLESS you're the first to go and you have to wait on your friend(s) who are still in the match, but honestly if you get camped and tunneled out of the game, just shrug and say "oh well" and move on. A lot of the "toxic" stuff people complain about is justified (intentionally toxic postgame chat, people BM'ing each other just to get a reaction, holding the game hostage to purposely create an anti-fun scenario for other players, sandbagging or teaming with the killer, etc) but ultimately many of the "toxic" things people complain about are only a problem because people make it a problem. Stuff like camping, tunneling, teabagging, clickyclicky, "Aggressive nodding", etc. If you die 3 minutes into a game, just have a laugh about it and move on. It's just a game and nothing about the game is that serious. Maybe you played poorly and the killer took advantage of it, maybe you just got unlucky. Maybe you got sandbagged by the other survivors. If people stopped complaining so much about things that really aren't that serious, the game would be a lot less toxic in general. The argument that tunneling someone out of the match so fast ruins the game for everyone is absolutely not true either. A 3 man team, even without perfect coordination, can still very easily complete the match and all 3 escape. It's entirely possible, you just have to not give up. A lot of it boils down to how much you let it get under your skin. If you LET people BM you and let it get a rise out of you, maybe it's time to self reflect on why it bothers you so much, maybe it's time to look at what is causing you to get upset from some pixels on a screen nodding their head up and down at you, because honestly, it ain't that big a deal. Just ignore it and you'll have a much better time.

[@davidlee7174]

Because those type of gamers have not gone through LoL or Siege or Dota. They got it easy in dbd & they cry about it. smh.

[@nolanstrife7350]

On the last one I have to disagree. This might sound like an unpopular opinion in this comment section, but I stand by the core principle of "one player isn't responsible for other players' fun" Yes, DbD is not balanced. Nor is it competitive. It's cursed by concept, it is completely unavoidable. Yet to me, the principle still stands firm. It's still just a game. It is not nor it will never be a valid reason for aggression or harassment. If being camped or tunnelled triggers someone beyond reasonable limits, its a clear sign to change hobby, for their own benefit Now, just to clear, yes, I camp or tunnel if it means to secure the game. Yes, I call the Meg who runs me around the Haddonfield main for ages all sorts of words with strong "F"s. But the truth is, I do it while alone at home. I do not and I will never do it in someone's face, in person or in in-game chat. I won't insult other people's race, gender, nationality or literally anything else. Insulting one's skill or playstyle, maybe, and only as a retaliation against an attack on me, but that's it. Because that's just the game, simple as that When I play DbD, I tend to give the other side no quarter. But in return I expect no quarter to be given to me. Am I the part of "Us vs Them" mentality? I don't think so, despite how it looks. I mean, I play 90% killer, but I still think Deja Vu is justified to be permanent, among other things. In the end, it's just a game, no more, no less The word of the day is "Self-control"

[@TheHotCross]

I can respect that, as I say, ultimately people can morally play however they like, I think there is maybe two sides to the player base, those who see it as slightly more a primarily competitive game and others who see it as more casual with some competitive elements?

[@nolanstrife7350]

@@TheHotCross thanks for your respectful reply I think it's more like a fundamental property of any game in general. What's the most straightforward, obvious way to have fun with the game? That's right. To win. There always will be people who play casual games competitively. From this point of view it's kinda irrelevant if the game is casual or competitive by design I mean... Look at Divekick. A literal 4-button (move left, move right, jump, dive) "fighting game" where all you have to do to win a round is to land one single hit. The thing is, this game was one of games at Evolution Championship Series (Evo, for short), one of the most popular FGC tournaments ever. Hell, there are tier list for this game, where two buttons are jump and dive! At least, that's how I view this whole discourse...

[@midnightvibes5485]

Brother literally nailed this one hands down. Amazing.

[@Hans_Presto]

I think this is probably my favourite topic that you've covered because I initially got into Dead By Daylight through content creators, and I'm still heavily invested in those same content creators despite me now having 1.4k hours in the game itself. As always, absolutely love your sociological approach to these discussions, it's really fascinating to understand how our relationships with games are influenced by online communities and parasocial relationships, the latter is especially interesting to me! Really good stuff man, well done, and great commentary on SpooknJukes!

[@deletedaccount7]

I feel the us vs them issue is a big one in the dead by daylight community. I constantly see it referred to as the "survivor community" and "killer community" and it amazes me. Why can't we all just be the "dead by daylight community"? Why promote and continue needless segragation between the two? Yeah some may prefer killer and others survivor, some folk play different roles but that doesn't make them a different community. We all play the same game, dead by daylight. We are the dead by daylight community.

[@jamiebowler4693]

Mainly because apart from looping, (which unless you play nurse both sides need to be good at, loop v anti-loop, mind games etc) the roles are very different by nature of DBD being asymmetrical, ethier side demands skills unique to that side. I wish i was interested and engaged enough playing survivor to actually effectively learn to loop a killer but, with the state of solo q, I don’t gain the same enjoyment as playing killer, I don’t think I’m far from majority of newer casual players who prefer one side to another/ main one side. Due to this it does create a survivor and killer camps respectively with ethier side having many annoying mechanics/ perks which creates this very separated community

[@amazingme894]

THANK YOUUUUU IVE BEEN FEELING SO INSECURE IN THE COMMUNITY BECAUSE OF A CERTAIN VIBE I GET FROM CREATORS/REDDITORS MINUS A NICE FEW STREAMERS THAT I GENUINELY LOVE ugh its genuinely tiring

[@theARoberts]

Always enjoy hearing your takes on things and watching how you reason through a topic. Thank you for being a positive example of how you can disagree with someone but do so respectfully.

[@Dogbi.]

Really underrated dbd youtuber ngl you deserve at least 50k subs.

[@revenge3265]

I still don't agree that someone else is responsible for the fun of their adversary regardless of any potential imbalances.

[@Kingdomall]

it mostly applies to killers, because they have the most control over what happens in a match. it's supposed to be casual, not competitive. the game devs don't expect you to sweat it out.

[@revenge3265]

@@Kingdomall Ok but that still doesn't mean anything though.

[@Kingdomall]

​@@revenge3265 people are responsible for other people's enjoyment when the game cannot dictate it for you and has its flaws. it's just a cycle to tell yourself "I'm not responsible for the fun of others" because other players can do that exact same thing. you going on and saying that will only make you hypocritical, because the people you face may have the same mentality. "Oh, the killer is a nurse? I don't care how they feel, I'm not responsible for their fun. I'm going to t bag, clicky clicky, and send hate messages because I don't like who they're playing". it's really not a big deal, and I'm not *trying* to tell you how to live your life, but if you don't want to be treated like that, then it's only justified if you keep that mindset.

[@xempty_voidx]

As just a normal watcher, I feel some streamers do contribute to the toxic behaviors, not blaming them completely but they have a firm hold on some players. Theres streamers ( wont say names ) I see make youtube videos about “toxic players” or “toxic experiences” but then in live tell their viewers to stop calling things toxic that they call toxic in their own KZbin videos. Its just hypocritical and kinda crazy that they have so much of a influence of certain things but also a sense of entitlement / elitism.

[@Hewasneverthere013]

I don’t believe content creators themselves are toxic but for the game they are. The game THRIVES off toxicity. Every popular vid has “toxic” in the title and u can’t have a decent debate on a perk without twitter going crazy. In my personal experience I get told constantly to kms for killing someone as killer. I even got invited to a party by my survivor teammates and got cussed out for not saving them when they wanted to be saved, even tho I sacrificed myself so they all could leave. Never seen a community that hates the people and game itself as much as this.

[@LOVEUGYARU]

amazing video, perfectly explained what I have been trying to say better than I ever could. Keep it up

[@Cheshire_Heart]

If someone losing/doesn't have fun in a video game causes them to become a ticking time bomb of violence I feel like they should find a new hobby. Maybe painting or something. What are players supposed to do? Assume every other person they play with might break out into a violent rage in 24 hours unless you make the game fun for them? That seems silly to me, in my experience when you put other people's fun above your own you then stop having fun and it just starts a cycle.

[@NotJarrod]

I feel that's too black and white of a solution. It's like nobody realizes that someone can have fun while also considering the fun of others. It doesnt have to be "I have fun or you have fun, no in between."

[@Sonoket]

Absolute scholar.

[@Lusius8879]

also quick point regarding the "every game is a swf" point. I have decided to monitor my own guaranteed swf encounter rate over the last few weeks. Basically, if I am up against other PC players, I check their account beforehand to see if they are friends with someone else in the lobby. i kid you not, but 82,5% of my game have had AT LEAST a duo. Now, this does not mean they were on coms throwing information at eachother (in fact, most of them seemed to be 2 people who met eachother on dbd and decided to duo, but without coms), but it does mean that the majority of my games had friends playing together. So while, in my experience, there is an element of truth to it, this says NOTHING about them playing sweaty, having an unfair advantage, being try-hards or anything else people would like to throw out. In fact, most of those games, the duo people were the ones to die the quickest, insinuating that they were most likely just some friends goofing around and playing for the fun of it.

[@akalixevelynn2932]

this is exactly why I watch otzdarva he seems to almost never tilt, when I played before I would rage a ton and the calm demeanor kinda rubbed off on me. So I actually really prefer the chill characteristics I have I guess copied? A form a flattery idk if its good or bad but at the end of the day I dont feel heated even when its kinda cheesy something happened.

[@saltedjester4458]

Do you watch him on twitch or youtube, I watched otzdarva for a while now on youtube and enjoyed his content. I decided to watch his twitch but it didn’t feel the same, he may not tilt but you can see the signs of hypocrisy on display during his streams.

[@akalixevelynn2932]

@@saltedjester4458 yeah I watch youtube mostly so I cant say for streams.

[@cc8879]

My ways of fixing some of this stuff: 1. Basement Bubba- disable insidious near hooked survivors (24/32 meters) 2. Exposed + Nurse- nurse blink attacks are considered special 3. Nurse- Make it take more skill to use the nurse by slowing her blinks down for each obstacle she blinks through, making it difficult to just tp all the way through certain structures. Option 2- Make blinks recharge longer for each object blinked through during the previous 2 blinks.

[@nerdienew911]

So you want to nerf nurse by making exposed status effect basically useless on her? In other words, you want to remove a game mechanic that applies to everyone else except her. Idk about you but removing a game mechanic specifically for a certain killer seems a bit unfair.

[@skmkr5222]

@@nerdienew911 the fact that she is the only killer with a special attack that applies normal attack effects is not unfair in the first place to you? Not even Pig's silly dash can do that. There is a reason why some Killers have restrictions like that. Nurse is the only one that get's a special treatment for no reason at all. At this point they should just completely rework her.

[@nerdienew911]

@@skmkr5222 the biggest difference is, 99% of nurse's attack comes from her blink because it is literally impossible to catch up on survivors without blinking. In pig's case, she uses her m1 lots of time which means the exposed status effect still works on her.

[@nerdienew911]

@@skmkr5222 she gets special treatment because she is handicapped as she relies 99% of her hits by blinking while most other killers relies on their normal m1.

[@skmkr5222]

@@nerdienew911 I see you didn't get what I was trying to say with the Pig comparison. Nurse blink is strong enough without one shot potential, you can still end the chases quicker than any other killer on top of the free map pressure provided. The big majority of the community understands why the Nurse is op and why she will sooner or later get some tweaks if not a complete rework. There are so many videos of content creators talking about why the Nurse is problematic for the games health. You should check them out because they do a great job explaining how some of her add-ons and perk interactions are breaking the game.

[@TakahiroTsukasa]

Watched all of your videos so far. Great content!

[@FizzieSprite]

i don't personally mind content creators because it's really easy to tell when that person is actually toxic or just trying to enjoy their game. Actually toxic would be like Truetalent, Ochido, etc, where they influence their audience on purpose to try and rally anger n shit, while other creators just want to enjoy and play their game like Lilith Omen, Noob, RapidMain, Otz Edit: Talking about whether content creators are toxic for dbd while playing toxic build legion is an example of someone just wanting to play the game and enjoy themself. He isn't saying "YOU HAVE TO RUN THIS BUILD" he's just playing the game and having fun

[@redseagaming7832]

Right now I'm playing it on PS5 and I'm not hearing any voice acting or anything I looked at the settings to see if there was a way to turn on the voice settings but there is no voice settings unless you are in a party does anybody have cross play between PC and consoles I wouldn't mind having some friends that played dead by daylight

[@AnonVoids]

DBD streamers community is full of hypocrisy and lack of self-awareness.. Streamers critique and condemn survivors that abuse broken mechanics (like when OOO basically became a wallhack) but will do the same as killers all the time, same thing with toxic behavior that when not cut from the videos they usually just give a senseless reason or call it a challenge. Plus plenty of the streamers are just sponsored by dbd (ofc they don’t mention that) and will plain ignore or downplay big problems in the game. For example the hacker situation, times when rubberbanding was rampant, etc Many others just plain use modified game files for bigger fov (Sweh uses that) or post-processing advantages like stretched res or color modification to get the killer bloodstain much more visible. Not to mention racist Argentinian streamers that keeps calling people Monkeys and other derogatory racial slurs while being left unpunished both by twitch and dbd. DBD feels like a lawless territory, where only people liked or paid by dbd get their way and the rest is left to luck..

[@DustyDaniel]

I believe content creators are good for any game (might add some personal thoughts after watching the video)

[@Lusius8879]

here is 1 interesting thing I noticed about DBD... ALL "frustrating", "unfun" and "unfair" playstyles (on both sides) are optimal playstyles (only exception being teabagging in the exit gate) on the killer side: camping, tunneling, starstruck nurse on the survivor side: bodyblocking (being my personal hate), genrushing, sabosquad

[@friendshipsnakes6356]

I cannot wait to read all of these studies 😮

[@DarkPhoenix2001]

Excellent video Gary. Maybe your best! I’m of the opinion that trying to be more empathy and treating the other role like how you’d want to be treated in that would do wonders and is how I choose to play. Not everyone is going to handle toxic behavior the same, while some may be able to let it slide it can seriously effect others. Whether it is dbd or another game it could easily be one of the few bright spots in someone’s day.

[@LucretiaPearl]

I'm not big on Dead By Daylight, but you & the others you've team played with make it fun to watch. Also, seriously, your voice is fantastic for narration!

[@N7BornDed]

As a killer main, I think the prove thyself nerf was uncalled for. It wasn't too in anyway. Not to mention survivors have almost no bp farming perks now. Killers have more of them.

[@nat-uraldisasterpieces8647]

So I am about to go OFF with my opinion on the most harmful DBD content to the community. If anyone takes both the time to go through it all AND do so with an open mind? Bless you. I think the most harmful content is...Survivor Main content. Now here is where I have to say I play both roles pretty evenly. If anything leaning more towards Survivor just cause I play with friends far more often. I also do not make this claim to go "SURVIVOR MAINS TOXIC AND BAD" cause both sides can be toxic. But the Survivor side certainly LENDS to it more on virtues of a little bit of social science, the asymmetrical nature of the game, and how mechanically inclined it is. The social science and asymmetrical nature kinda go hand in hand. So I'll adress both of those together. When you're Survivor, you're part of a TEAM. And being part of a team, gives you the opportunity to carry. To be the MVP. And because the Killer is the power role and is supposed to win the 1v1, that is why it makes for good Survivor content if the one Survivor comes out on top. This is why you always see stuff like "I LOOP THE KILLER ALL GAME?!?!" but never "yeah i beat this survivor pretty quickly at a Survivor Sided tile." Being a good Survivor is just a lot more glamerous because when you do well there, you're the hero. You're the underdog. And you're the one who looks super cool now to all their friends in a SWF or, even to the strangers if you're SoloQ. Killers will never get to experience "I am the reason the Killer side won the game" in the glamerous sense cause we will just go "Well...yeah. No duh you're the only player on your team. Either it was you or nobody." As for the mechanical aspect...DBD is not super mechanically inclined. It isn't like fighting games where players have to do numerous consecutive difficult inputs or things as crazy as a 1 frame input in a 60 frame game. But even then there are a lot more Survivor Techs than Killer Techs (Especially if not going into Killer specific techs). CJ Techs. Locker Techs. FOV Techs. Window Techs. 360s. Whatever weird things in the game that make you lose collission. But as a content creator put it. The only universal Killer tech we've gotten after 6 years is walking backwards to hide the red stain. And...maybe using lunges to clear certain hole gaps Killers would otherwise have to walk around. But because it isn't necessarily difficult, that is why Survivors get butthurt way more often when they fail. It's always the Survivors who try to play like a content creator by doing all these "techs", that are the first to just give up and ruin the whole match for everybody. When I play Killer, I find myself constantly saying things like "Sorry. Not going in your compilation today." "Someone has watched one too many Survivor videos." Or "Sorry buddy. You aren't Probbz." Like a Feng wearing the Probbz skin, clicking at me while moonwalking to shack, but goes down quickly to the most basic shack mind game and "Of course she's killing herself on hook." And because the game is 4v1. There are 4 times the opportunity for one bad apple to ruin the bunch. It only takes one of them to DC to make everyone else either also DC or otherwise give up or play a losing match. Survivor Main content really just seems to put unrealistic expectations out there. The amount of times where I play both sides and a Survivor muddies the experience cause they...only looped for 2 gens and not 3 or 4? Like damn bro sorry you didn't get your 5 Gen chase and missed your Moonwalk Spin into Pallet Stun CJ Tech Wombo Combo. It's totally justified that you now throw even harder by expediting yourself out of the match cause you're a sore loser (Especially when you can still win the match sometimes. You only lost at that one interaction.) At least when a Killer DCs, the match is over and all the Surviors technically won and are now already queing up for the next match. I could keep going with even more points or examples but believe it or not, this is me keeping it short. I doubt anyone is gonna read all of this anyways but at least I finally put these thoughts somewhere.

[@Kingdomall]

the community is definitely what makes dbd a challenging place to have fun in. people taking it too seriously along with people just not valuing other people's opinions. another point to what you said about tunneling and camping and BM, it is true that it is not actually toxic, but it can be "toxic" in the way where people just want to have fun and enjoy themselves. basically, treat players how you'd be treated. if you play fairly and get BMed/camped/tunneled, shame on them. if you partake in such things, for *any* reason, shame on you. it's up to you to be the bigger person.

[@alanbruce480]

One of the biggest mistakes (other than getting this game greenlit back in 2016), was giving power to those undeserving. The Common Man is not supposed to exert a level of influence such as the one displayed in social media over the last few years. It is not a matter of elitism- you simply cannot grant a streamer the power to sway people into cult like behavior which leads us to you creating this video. Which, while very well composed and informative, is still afraid to rightfully so lash out towards these influencers who have on repeated occasions sent their followers as a digital lynch mob to cause harm unto others.

[@Luxterra-]

Great video, very interesting as always! Next time I'm against a Pinhead, I'll wonder to myself if I REALLY hate Pinhead or if your streams make me hate Pinhead 😅

[@TotallyNotRaven342]

I do not agree with the notion of "League is a balanced game" In any scenario like Overwatch yes it's a fair equal chance for anyone to win, but not League. It's too easy to snowball and make it almost impossible for the other team to have a fair chance to win especially with how power crept new champions are becoming and how every patch seems to buff something that's already stupid strong and snowball-like, especially in a solo/duo queue environment. Other than that though, amazing points.

[@АндонВасилев-к8ю]

I mean not rly the point here but calling League a balanced game is like calling basement bubba a skilled play

[@icantplays]

Amazing Video very informative Keep up the Great work!!!!!!!

[@noelteague1109]

great vid as always

[@noaheaston2147]

A big issue is that certain streamers are idolized by their chats to the highest degree where they can do no wrong. This is very apparat in TrueTalents Twitch streams. Everytime he gets a kill that survivor just wasn’t good and everytime a survivor escapes they’re sweaty and take the game too serious. And his chat defends hun every single time. It’s toxic in the sense of just being ignorant not talking and getting upset. He then also bans/blocks people that speak up about the way he acts or his community asks.

[@nolives]

Yes they are. Like most games these content creators play for 1000s of hours, know every little trick, and then the devs stupidly balance around these super players at the expense of the average player.

[@Kindreddit]

agree with everything, also remember its always good to degrade poor behavior but never to degrade that person!

[@arandomhashbrown3756]

15:37 Wow that speed

[@leslieswekman]

Literally just run discordance to beat prove thyself

[@itsOasus]

I ultimately feel like the whole thing about someone not being responsible for your fun can be a subjective point. For instance, lets say you play a game "fairly". i.e. you don't camp or tunnel, don't use perks that killers or survivors rage about, and the other side still gets mad at you. What are you supposed to do in an instance like that? There comes a time where reasonable expectations have to be set. But the problem is everybody has a different opinion of where that expectation belongs. I fear this is a question that is not going to have an answer for a long long time.

[@ThndrMge]

Fun itself is subjective. If you have to play a specific killer, a specific way, following specific "rules" set by the opposing team just because that's what is "fun" for "everyone..." That might be fun for some, but it's certainly not fun for me. What is fun for me might not be fun for you. Etc. People need to just get over themselves is the *BIG* issue. The us vs them mentality, and the unreasonable expectation that everyone has to play "fun" and "fair". It's a game, people are allowed to play how they want to play, if you don't like it, tough luck, maybe you'll get a more fun match in the next match. It's okay to be frustrated if you get completely outplayed, but don't take that frustration out on others. That's just childish. Don't blame other people for your misfortune, just move on and get on with it. It's a game, if you aren't having fun, stop playing. Seriously. You are responsible for your own fun. If you can't have fun in the game no matter what you do, then stop. It's really that simple. Everyone *IS* responsible for themselves, and their own fun. If you can't have fun playing the game, then maybe it's just not the right time to play the game. Come back later or try again tomorrow. It's not the other players responsibility to make sure you're having fun.

[@brad1426]

I've played against a handful of bigger NA content creators for DBD a few times now, and honestly, I can say they were all fun games and I enjoyed them. I was excited afterwards because I was a huge fan. There is, however, one, that will remain nameless, that I did not have a lot of fun in that match personally. I was and still am a fan of theirs after the fact and do actually think they are a lovely person that seems really nice. But...the way they played wasn't a whole lot of fun. I can be honest with both them and myself in saying that I did not enjoy the game. The other content creators beat my ass too, because they're really good. But in those games, I did not have a bad time, it just felt like a normal game against a skilled player. I do think that while nobody owes anybody a specific way to play the game at all, and that's a fair argument, it's worth mentioning that I don't think anyone is ever going to love being shoved out of a match as quickly as possible by the killer. I don't think many people find being stared at on hook extremely fun. A lot of killers don't enjoy things like sabo squads or pre dropping comp players. DBD is really unique in that there are so many different unfun ways to play the game against both sides, and I cannot begrudge players for not enjoying certain playstyles. I can't even begrudge them being a little salty about it. People are allowed to be salty and unhappy with how you played, it's when they tell you to off yourself or harass you outside the match that it becomes too far imo. Again, that one particular streamer seems like a very nice person, and I do not hold my experience against them. I just wasn't very excited about it when I probably would've been had the game actually been more "normal".

[@patricklonge8912]

Other than Nurse, Blight, and Spirit, the killer is not the power role. I play both roles and I find survivors more toxic than killers. I refuse to play with TTVs as (in my experience) 90% are toxic and play with toxic friends.

[@NotJarrod]

It's funny to hear spooks talked about as a positive influence in the community. Dude makes video after video titled something like "TOXIC survivor main streamer GETS SALTY AND CRIES over a GAME" and I feel like all it does is constantly put people on blast and bring them negative attention. Time after time creators that do this are saying "dont go harass this person" but are fully aware that the person is going to get harassed by the creator making a video on them. Not only that, but Spooks encourages the "salt" himself just for views. It was admitted in this very video that the whole "basement bubba" is something that draws out frustration because of the helplessness a player can feel from having to fall victim to it. Yet no matter how true that is, you're "entitled" if you complain, and you'll probably get put into one of his "salty player" videos. It just feels so wrong to try to do something purposely to antagonize somebody and then blowing them up for having a predictable reaction. Either way, I'll never be able to take the dude seriously when he preaches about not being toxic, but then will go ahead and call people things like "inbred redneck asshole." Real pinnacle of the community, that one.

[@garrettlauderbaugh312]

But isn’t the bar for high MMR pretty low? Who’s to say most players haven’t hit the soft cap?

[@davidiv123]

Channels like spooknjookz, rapid main and etc contribute a ton to toxicity while pretending they are some moral pillars. Toxicity unfortunately is a core part of the dbd gameplay at this point, and arguably the main reason most people still play it. "I wanna make x dc" you see it in all builds and guides the aim is to make the other party mad and then call them a gamer word in lobby. Where those channels contribute to that is when they stream and go to the other small people and say "I'm your killer" in their twitch chat. Then they are shocked when this random person is upset because their immediate assumption is "oh ffs why are you stream sniping" and you see these people do insane mental gymnastics while feinting shock "how Coul... Why would he assume I'm stream sniping"..... Maybe because every survivor with a ttv in their name is sniped and bullied every other game. As I said toxicity is ingrained in dbd now so pulling this type of shit is just a content bait where they intentionally act like the people they critique with the core difference of not talking smack but playing as toxicly ad humanly possible. "I'm your killer" then by happenstance that same person gets face camped, then x big KZbinr is shocked the other party is upset. I feel that sort of farming people for views sort of feeds into the toxic loop where people recreate the horrible thing only they just act mightier than thou in post chat where you are at fault for getting upset if someone abuses some op mechanic and you should have just had fun getting bullied dor not allowed to play.

[@salvo88]

"killer queues have gone up for a reason" yeah, but there's also a reason if survivors queues were 5/7 mins long for the past 7 months tho

[@joh1997dude]

SpookNJukes is like the elementary school bully, he pokes you until you react and hit him and then he goes off crying to the teacher

[@noelteague1109]

agree

[@cc8879]

I think this misses the mark. Heavily

[@TakahiroTsukasa]

SpookNJukes is a hypocrite. He thrives on being toxic to get his victims to react to it. He intentionally does things to get salt, then calls out other toxic players. He is not a shining beacon to look up to.

[@splatternaenae]

this has got to be one the most hilariously bad takes i have ever had the pleasure of reading, you sir have given me a good laugh

[@barredharpy3]

11:30 did you just refer to hunt showdown as balanced? 😂

[@TheHotCross]

Yeah, I'd argue every player has an equal opportunity to win at that game, you choose your guns, the rng affects everyone, MMR is pretty solid too. I don't think I've ever felt like a round of Hunt wasn't fair. Do you disagree?

[@barredharpy3]

@@TheHotCross Ive played since launch, the game hasnt always been balanced but I can agree that it has gotten better.

[@barredharpy3]

also good video I watched it all the way through

[@TheHotCross]

Thanks! I appreciate that!

[@arimelsilver2495]

I think you missed a quote at 5:14. Love the video

[@TheHotCross]

Oh yeah sometimes I can't find a good quote so I just rephrase the paper myself, I could probably make that clearer! Thank you though!

[@alliethegiraffe]

Cool chalkboard sweater

[@sinisterhistory8801]

Not just a streamer issue, it is people in the overall community. And not that many, but enough that it seems like a big issue. I find SpooknJukes himself to be kinda toxic tbh. He antagonize and invites the negativity on him IMO. I prefer Aaron Duke, Pixel Bush, etc

[@bloo_DBD]

YES YES YES I SAY THIS ALL THE TIME TY

[@Conordavefoster]

Yes. Yes they are.

[@OhRoku]

Stramers are the fakcing worse... most of them at least

[@oatsno]

it’s really unfortunate but i feel like most of the main content creators for dbd are actually not that great or nice in their twitch chat. either rude and the chat will be rude too. totally different energy on youtube which i feel like is false advertising LOL. don’t play nice and wholesome when you are in fact not. it’s rather disappointing.

[@DrakenhofTemplars]

In a broad sense no if you single people out then yes

[@dootybones8639]

Lmao I went against running man once he just bubba camped me out of the game in the first minutes

[@TheNemesis442]

yes, i agree......violent video games cause crimes

[@azumi4094]

14:20 yeah they've gone up because survivors are cry babies who left once their meta perks got nerfed

[@edwardmartin3549]

For dbd the answer is yes

[@yaboiskittlez7943]

While I agree with a lot of the sentiments in this video, and I do truly enjoy this, sadly there is one glaring issue. On the subject of "High" MMR, you state to get better at the game, and I would assume then get true genuine High MMR, and not the false high mmr we think we have, killers should be going for more hooks over more kills or easy kills in a match. Sadly, this just isn't how the game works. Because a killer's MMR is based on kills, not hooks. I'd get more MMR "points" if you will if I get 4 kills and 4 hooks than I would 8 hooks no kills, or even 11 hooks 3 kills and someone got out via hatch or door. It's not based on my emblem status, it's not based on if I camped or tunneled or used NOED to win or how many gens got done, it's all based on kills. That's how BHVR made their game. So getting good at hooking everyone 3 times a match while it might make you more consistent, it does not make your MMR go up any more with 12 hooks 4 kills than if I just get 4 hooks and 4 kills. It's sad, but it's true. Same for survivors. It's not about how many of your teammates get out in a game, or how many saves you get or gens you do or how much chasing happened because of you, it's based on if you escape. And that's what gets a lot of people hung up on the fact that the killer can have so much agency as to camp or tunnel. It's not about if you bought your team time to leave, people think the killer said screw this guy in particular when really the killer just wanted to not drop even lower than if they all got out. The killer needs pressure, and sometimes survivors will throw the killer a 4k when it could have been just a 1 or 2k game purely for altruism and the idea that they all need to escape to win and go higher. Because escape vs kills is what decides the numbers, not what you do to get there. That's where the hockey memes come from. (Patrick the lead dev compared hockey to DBD and justified why it's based on escapes and kills, and not the nuance.) So like it or not, that's the way the game works.

[@SecondDraft]

I don't really camp or tunnel. I might slug in very specific situations... one thing that I see a bit of a double standard on here is the whole... camp and tunnel at 5 gens? You're a piece of crap! But no one bats an eye when, after the roughest match of rough matches occurs, I have like, no hooks, 1 or 2 if I'm lucky, 1 gen left or something but these guys are still body blocking and flashlighting and doing everything they can to prevent my hooks. If I do it, I'm a piece of shit, if they do it "Skill issue". I get it, they're probably concerned I'm gonna camp them at that point and I'm not really complaining, but I'd figure I'd throw my 2 cents in here.

[@itzbuv_sin]

Yes they are very toxic

[@AmericanGadfly]

You lost the plot with this the moment you said the killer was the power role. I dont know how many different ways it can be demonstrated that this is blatantly untrue. So you either havent been playing very long, or are just blatantly lieing for some reason.

[@FUFUCarnagerap]

Not all of them.- But some formats! Like -winstreak Videos -Smurfing challenges , where guys with x K Hours play new accounnts against people that barely know the steering of DBD and call it "DBDs hardest Challenge" -Discussion why using Perk X is bad, or why Killer X is unfun etc.. -Showing Toxic People but not saying their Names. No Streamer in itself is toxic, only some of the Videos they do! Edit: Just got a nother Vid of you recommended at the side... and i overwatched your Channel, just the Thumbnails and Titles... You are bad for this Community , yes Bro! Why? "Why you`re WRONG to say DBD is Bad" "Are you actually bad at playing DBD" This Titles alone imply that you think you`re opinion is the one that counts and what you say is gospel! Bad! Very Bad! You have to learn that your opinion is neither, Fac or Gospel!

[@elvangulley3210]

Omg this is just survivor main crying just stop

[@TheHotCross]

I actually play both sides a lot, but thank you for sort of highlighting one of my points in the video!