Are Electric Cars Actually CHEAPER? | Mini EV vs Mini Petrol

[@user-sk8zq3fj1x]

Sally just made the decision to buy a bike instead. 🚲

[@FrozenDung]

Bicycle or motorbike? I much prefer biking around if I can, no problems parking!

[@hectorandem2944]

No road tax. No MOT. No problem. 200IQ move.

[@TiagoMorbusSa]

@@hectorandem2944 It's a great idea. Until you fall over. Or until it rains. And you fall over.

[@TheYBGOON]

Aryan Alone and it means your always doing a wheelie so you can join Bikestormz and be cool

[@mikee2773]

😂

[@eyedeasneverdie3348]

But, which one has a drift mode? I could sit back and listen to Rory give a 3 hour lecture about anything car related and never get bored, glad hes found a home at Autotrader, hes my favourite car reviewer.

[@eyedeasneverdie3348]

@captain pugwash Heyyy, who hurt you? This is a safe space

[@eyedeasneverdie3348]

@captain pugwash Its actually a reference to a previous autotrader review about the GLA but cool then came out recently. But cool, glad to see you're easily annoyed by youtube comments. That isnt immature at all, either way. Enjoy your weekend Cap

[@Dino.808]

The Honda E will with its tight turning circle. It's going to be a future drift Icon like the Toyota Corolla (AE86).

[@ChrisHooperOnCars]

Really helpful, Rory! I’ve got a Mini Electric on 24 hour test soon.

[@Corvolet5]

One thing's for sure, a Mini is overpriced no matter what version you buy.

[@shankarbalan3813]

Corvolet5 one buys a Mini if one can afford one and if one loves the little things and their handling. To each his own.

[@TheYBGOON]

Just DoIt isn’t a mini a poor mans 1 series

[@Corvolet5]

@@TheYBGOON Emphasis on the "poor man's". Because especially the sportier Mini versions can be very expensive compared to other small cars or even hatchbacks in the segment. Heck, a JCW can be bought for over 40k where I live. Not counting options.

[@chrishart8548]

I don't want to spend £781 a month on any car

[@chrishart8548]

@Just DoIt loser with an extra £781 every month I can live with that

[@steveholderness1450]

I lease my Peugeot e-208 GT through my work's salary sacrifice scheme for £319 a month over 3 years with no deposit (10k pa mileage). All tax, insurance, maintenance, tyres, servicing and breakdown cover is included - I charge it at work for free and at home for about £6 per 200 miles (home charger is included for free with a Peugeot). Couldn't be happier with my switch to electric from my 7 year old Fiesta ST that I'd owned since new.

[@WarriorsPhoto]

That's a winner there. Especially if work is paying for it. I do my best to get as such as I can out of my company car as well. (:

[@PK-xu7gu]

What the hell is salary sacrifice? That doesn't sound good.

[@Neojhun]

@@PK-xu7gu It's for stuff your employer pays which you want. That reduces cost because it's under a buisness a purchase and sometimes in Bulk. It's realy a great thing. When I was a government contractor certain big purchases i could get Tax Free.

[@PK-xu7gu]

@@Neojhun Oh ok. That doesn't sound so bad now. I assume they take the cost from your salary? For example, you're paid £1000 per month. The cost of the car is taken out of that. So you go home with circa 650-700?

[@Neojhun]

@@PK-xu7gu Basically they take out what ever the reduced cost out of your salary. Rather than paying 100% on your own. Example you salary sacrifice 80% of that cost and you saved 20%. It's quite a good scheme.

[@andreashedlund2757]

What about service costs and depreciation?

[@superchargedpetrolhead]

he was mostly talking about lease in this video, so service cost and depreciation are no factor

[@thekingoftheworld9553]

@@superchargedpetrolhead you still gotta pay for the servicing tho

[@superchargedpetrolhead]

@@thekingoftheworld9553 is it? In my country the whole leasing is new, only some manufacturers have started to do that last couple of years and all of them offer free service as the service charge is included in the monthly payment, i didn't know it was different in other countries.

[@thezanzibarbarian5729]

@@thekingoftheworld9553 - Servicing is either in or out of the equation. But it wasn't mentioned here. Some leases you pay for servicing Others are included but at an extra cost. But as most families can only afford ONE car, me included, I'd have to opt for ICE as with a lot of people, they do travel to see family that can be anywhere in the country and I wouldn't want to travel 1/2 way across the country with an EV if I've got to stop twice to recharge an EV and an ICE car will do a splash and dash to get moving again. Give me a Dinosaur powered car any time.

[@thekingoftheworld9553]

@@thezanzibarbarian5729 fast chargers are about the same time to fill up in a busy petrol station. It's a fact that long term EVs are cheaper unless you go for a really expensive one and compare it to a fiesta. But what do I know, I don't even own a car anymore. I only ride bikes! 😂🏍️🏍️

[@GabrielNica]

This is disappointing, to be honest. Why wouldn't you compare the Cooper SE to the Cooper S? Comparing it to the base Cooper doesn't make sense. The Cooper S would be a better comparison as they have the same amount of power and offer the same kind of fun. Sure, the Cooper SE seems like a worse deal compared to the 1.5-liter Cooper but it's considerably more fun to drive and that counts for a lot of people. Also, you don't HAVE to buy a home charger, you can use a wall socket if you're charging over night. Redo the math with the Cooper S and you'll see the Cooper SE is much better value.

[@DashCamSerbia]

Just buy a used car, and save a lot more money. 3 year old car at 50% the cost of the new one.

[@PaulMansfield]

Some cars are even worse for depreciation. My wife bought a 13 month old juke at 35% off the original price. I know, it's an ugly car, she liked it, and I get the consolation of the cheap price.

[@DashCamSerbia]

@@PaulMansfield That is an amazing value. In my oppinion, unless you are driving hundreds of thousands of km, and/or plan to drive the same car for 10-15 years, buying a new car is a vaste of money.

[@bp19870]

I bought a 6 month old ex demo Jaguar XF for £26,000 instead of new at £37,500. It's a joke how quick cars depreciate.

[@TheYBGOON]

People are silly. Last year 92% of new cars bought were on finance. If and when I choose another car it will be second hand 3-5 years old with full service history and lowish mileage. And best to go for. Lower trim level to stop the expected electrical faults

[@peterwilliamson1825]

Just buy a car that is 3 years closer to EGR failure, DMF failure and will have done loads of miles, if it hasn't done many miles, it might need a DPF as well. Or you could buy or lease a new car and all of these items would be covered by the warranty that there 3 year old car could develop. Bought a 3 year old car that doesn't have these problems. Give it a year or two. Bought a petrol? You'll still have risk. DMF and possibly turbo, just not the DPF and EGR.

[@Lenderz]

You didn’t factor in the OLEV charger grant.

[@Rocketboy-qg6ts]

Rory what about yearly servicing costs???? They almost disappear with an EV.

[@chrisolive6056]

You'd be surprised

[@JAM_2024]

Chris Olive you’d be surprised how Tesla’s depreciate lower than regular ICE vehicles, are safer, get better with updates and require little maintenance compared to traditional cars. And recalls don’t seem to be common either. Pretty clear.

[@johnshortt3112]

People always say that EVs are cheaper to service but there's a kicker. 10years down the road you're looking at replacing the battery pack at a cost of almost 10k, look at a 10 year old Nissan Leaf for example. While comparatively you don't have to change the fuel tank of a Nissan Note.

[@helenlawson8426]

@@johnshortt3112 The Nissan Leaf is always used as an example of EV battery life and yet it is unusual in that it doesn't have the thermal management other EV's do. Beyond the charge buffer keeping charging between 20-80% it is controlling the battery's temperature that is the best protection from the harm of fast charging and any effect of climate. People are now using EVs in deserts and seriously frost bit cold areas of the planet. Having said all that most Nissan Leafs are still running and the original ten grand to replace the battery has now halved and the capacity increased. Hope that helps.

[@rtfazeberdee3519]

@@johnshortt3112 nope, anold myth in most cases (except for the very early battery chemistry of 10 years ago in cars that do not have thermal management). There are teslas operating as taxis out there with 400k+ miles on them. Look up a company called "Tesloop" they have figures on their website.

[@stevennewton6725]

Don’t think comparing a Cooper Sport against the Electric is logical, Cooper S would be more relevant since they have similar performance and price point. I personally have gotten 135 miles of range from the MINI Electric when using it as a city car.

[@idparkinson]

Exactly - it is easy to cook the figures if you compare against a lower performance and specified car. The comparison should have been the Cooper S, which is actually more expensive to buy than the EV.

[@Stewiedude1]

Too true, may as well have said "Hey guys look my new BMW IX3 is more expensive than the base spec 2.0d variant!" Shock horror, who would have expected it...

[@FrilansPhille]

Mind blown... ✊🏿 Do compare with a diesel version next!! #AutoTrader

[@funkymonkey1198]

Who buys a brand new diesel in 2020?

[@dps615]

Its not like for like though! An electric mini is MUCH faster than a diesel

[@WarriorsPhoto]

Yeah I would like to see this as well. (:

[@ssllhh100]

make the peugeot 208 diesel versus electric comparison

[@caio5987]

£1200 in insurance for a mini???? Where does Sally lives? Kabul?

[@sunzy7]

London

[@Dismitum]

Close enough.

[@TheManWithNoName786]

@@sunzy7 he did say Manchester in the video, crazy price

[@simonreeves2017]

I went electric in September 2019 with a BMW i3. I do around 12,000 miles a year, mostly to and from work. I'm lucky, we have a driveway and I charge overnight on Octopus Go - 5p per kWh. I used to spend about £220 a month on petrol, I now spend about £20 per month on charging. Once the PCP is paid off, this will be a cheap car to run. No servicing, the most it needs is the cabin air filter changing and brake fluid - both I can do myself. No oil changes, air filters, spark plugs, fuel filters, cam belts, fan belts. The electric is so much better to drive, I don't get as stressed in traffic, and electric cars benefit from pre-conditioning - fabulous in January to get into a car that is 19 degrees C and has ice free glass, and in summer, at the end of my day in the office, I can choose to get into a nice cool car for the journey home. The only major issue could be battery life, but it is looking like most EV batteries are good for about 12 years and 300,000 miles, only time will tell for sure.

[@GeorgyVass]

What would be the price for replacing the batteries then?

[@simonreeves2017]

Georgi Vasilev - replacement battery packs are hard to price up. There is not much market at present. I don't think main dealers will provide this service, once a car gets to 10 years old, dealerships are not that interested. I would expect to see an aftermarket network of options develop; just as there is for reconditioned engines and transmissions and gearboxes for ice cars.

[@begee5847]

Hi how safe is this to drive? I’m still on the fence about all electric car in the rain, getting wet etc sounds silly but if phones can explode whilst charging what’s to stop it from happening with the cars

[@simonreeves2017]

@@begee5847 Yes, I agree, it does sound silly.

[@begee5847]

@@simonreeves2017 You could have replied with informal information rather than immature judgement or just not reply. Smfh And it’s not that silly since most car dealers I have been to also are on the fence about safety matters in the long-term.

[@ianmearsphoto]

Something not really taken into account is the fact that its usually pretty easy to get a good discount on an ICE car but almost impossible on an EV so you're going to be starting out with an even bigger deficit.

[@Paul-GrnHil]

In the USA if you configure a Mini S and match all of the equipment options with a Mini ES with Signature Plus, The list price of the ES version is $3,000 USD LESS before you factor in the $7,500 tax credit. So in the US it ends up being $10,500 CHEAPER to buy the Mini ES. I have one on order and can’t wait to get it.

[@nealp885]

The savings in fuel and running costs are not significant if you make a decent amount of money, especially if you can afford a new car of any sort.

[@robsmith1a]

Just sold a Zoe ZE40 (psid £17800 for it battery inc- these deals just aren't available now). The charger came in the price. I just sold it for £13600 to a dealer after 3 years. £20 per month electricity, less than £100 per year servicing. EVs have gone up a lot in price in the last three years so I have bought an old Merc SLK for some fun. The Zoe felt a lot more modern than that but SLK more fun.

[@Chris-gs8kc]

Do people really believe that the government could afford to lose all the tax that they receive from taxing combustion cars. They will have to start taxing electric cars, so I think that part about zero tax for ev should be ignored. It's only a bribe to encourage people to buy an ev car for the time being. Of course there will not be a choice in 8 years time.

[@richardlphillips]

Do you not still get the OLEV grant for the charger? You get a charger for £150-180

[@stephendk9174]

You seem to have forgotten the savings on the service! No engine no oil change, a Tesla model 3 does not even need a yearly service to keep its guarantee, assume BMW Still makes people get a service, more reason for a model 3 💪

[@richardpiper4828]

One further consideration to factor in if you like to add extra options to your car is that EV’s are nearly always have more standard equipment than their un-optioned ICE equivalent. All will be automatic, have a good satnav infotainment system, heated seats and goodies like pre heating.

[@mateybloke]

Did you forget the OLEV grant for the charger?

[@mattangell1520]

The OLEV grant is a huge saving

[@thestig4408]

This was still better than an entire episode of new top gear

[@georgegeorgiy3516]

Do your homework properly mate!!! How about oil, filters change every 10K miles and another car service on petrol version ???

[@willyd-adv]

Just done 13,000km in my old as 2011 Nissan Leaf and my total fuel bill has been $0, yep nothing. I don't have a home charger so only charge at free public chargers. I love it So, bought the Leaf for $6000nzd (£3000) 14 months ago. My 330ci and turbo forester cost $100 (£50) a week in fuel. The Leaf is faster than both to 50kph but has saved me $6000nzd in 14 months on fuel alone. So my Leaf is now basically free 😂

[@drdoolittle5724]

Being a modern lass Sally will change her name to Sall-e

[@glideman]

The EV should be compared to the Cooper S! What about consumables and maintenance in the petrol? Do they not need oil, maintenance? What about the cost to the environment of a petrol car? It's also easy to travel from one side of the country to the other in an EV, I do it all the time. A lot of outdated opinions in this review.

[@WarriorsPhoto]

I've been telling my buddies this about EVs for a little bit. Yes over the long haul there could be a little of savings but who truly buy a car to save money? We buy cars for emotional or business needs. Good report Rory keep em coming.

[@adampostlethwaite]

The argument for "Sally" falls at the first hurdle because the photo of her hypothetical street shows only terraced houses. So how can she buy a home charger?

[@matthewburroughs9597]

Change at work, her work can have one installed for free.

[@ianmurray250]

Pavement chargers are coming although it is early days for them. Alternatively she could charge whilst shopping in her local supermarket each week. More expensive but effective.

[@Brian-om2hh]

@@ianmurray250 Tesco offer free charging, as do some Sainsbury's branches....

[@ianmurray250]

@@Brian-om2hh Thanks Brian, didn't know about Sainsbury's but Tesco are far too slow and having used them, often don't work. Morrisons have announced today that they now have 250 stores with chargers, some quite fast so you could pay to charge during the weekly shop or use their café as a halfway point.

[@VNavale]

Did I miss something? I thought you said you pay more for electric cars in the video? Still there is less choice with electric cars compared to ICE cars. I would like to buy one something similar to a E Class/5 series but there is none in that range.

[@dasfabelwesen]

How do you want to get a lot of miles on an electric car, when you cannot make long trips with them? If you ever want to travel with your car you need a 2nd car. Also the situation when you visit a family member and there is no charging at their home. How should that work? From people I have talked to that have electric cars I heard that they often put off the air conditioning in traffic jams because they are affraid to end up at the side of the road.

[@Tomoyo0827]

You shouldn't buy an EV with less than 600km theoretical range or you will be constantly fearing for running out juice. Especially in the post-COVID era, waiting for 30 mins with people around you is NOT smart

[@petergarside92]

You didn’t mention the life expectancy of the vehicle, as a fuel tank doesn’t degrade in the same way a battery does, so while it may be of no consequence if you plan on replacing your car every 3 or 5 years, it really is something people should consider when talking about both the economical and environmental cost of such vehicles

[@lastminutesolutions]

This is unbelievably similar to the spreadsheet I made when I was planning to buy a car I'll be running for 3 years

[@LeonWpr]

One really important thing to acknowledge is that the government subsidies can make a huge difference. In Germany you're getting a ≈9300€ corona/ev Bonus at this point... So for many people in urban areas it makes actually financial sense to buy an ev.

[@felixsamuelsson3038]

You don’t need a wallcharger that is bs, i’ve always plugged in my Leaf into a standard power socket

[@Filipolis]

Looking forward to the Porsche comparison 😅

[@markeames5115]

It's only in the past 12-18 months that I've started to think about how an EV could work for me. This type of information, across the price ranges really help inform us on the true costs/benefits and Rory's ability to deliver the information in a fun and easy to understand format is excellent. Looking forward to the Porsche breakdown next week as Taycan is on my "consider" list.

[@markeldik7057]

Now compare it to a good hybrid. My dad gets close to 25km a liter in his Prius. He, in the Netherlands, also has a little tax savings, doesn't need a home charger, cause the battery isn't as big. I understand the future is EV, BUT they are simply not ready yet, without government incentives plug in hybrids are cheaper and pretty much as good for the environment.

[@markeldik7057]

@Car Freaknatic how does complexity make them bad? The Prius is still one of the most reliable cars in the world. And as I said battery's are still not ready for a full EV. most people would be well of for their daily commute with a plug-in and when they visit family they still have the table. Where EV's don't or are way too expensive. And one thing that's for sure they are always to heavy and when you crash or the thing catches fire the consequences are WAY worse than normal cars. Claiming they're bad for the environment is BS. Just stating they are worst of both doesn't make it true. Like I explained for now I believe they're the best of both worlds as EVs aren't ready yet for mass adoption. Like the mini in this video is HUGELY impractical if you drive more than 200km on a regular basis.

[@markeldik7057]

@Car Freaknatic the Prius has li-ion for like 10 years now. Their CVT's don't really need much maintenance and rarely break. You can say what you want, but the data prices that even the 2nd generation Prius is still is a very reliable car to this day. My dad has 250k on it already as well and it's 8 years old. Only thing he has had so far is that the compressor of the air-conditioning is going bad, but that was 3 years ago and it's still running fine, so... I have never said they are fun to drive, but neither are EVs. Me sisters husband has an i3 and I don't feel anything for it. Yay it's fast, but there is 0 emotion in it and it's way too heavy to be fun around corners and that's IMO the only thing that matters as you should be driving inside the legal speed limit. The while maintenance on the ICE, sure it has to be done, but Mazda, Toyota and Honda have quite a proven track record of building very good engines, so provided you do that maintenance it's probably gonna be good for a very long time. For the foreseeable future EVs just can't get around the battery problem. Let them fix that then we'll talk about me adoption. Right now they are way too expensive without all the government incentives. And then as a last thing the TNGA platform, which is what most current Toyota's are running on is pretty darn good. It's not super sporty no, but it has a nice balance of being comfortable and a little bit fun.

[@markeldik7057]

@Car Freaknatic because they realize electric cars aren't ready yet. Exactly as they say. If we would want everyone to switch to an electric car out would physically be impossible cause we don't have enough of the rate materials in batteries in the earth. Charging would become an even bigger issue than it already is, because a lot people don't have the possibility to change at home. The roads would need to be rebuilt, because they aren't built to deal with so much weight on a regular basis. I could go on. Sure I understand, however much I disagree, that electric is supposed to be the future, but that is not right now not for a mass product, cause you have to bear in mind that all those model 3s are going to people who are already quite well of. Joe average can't afford a 40k+ car. And TBH I think both Mazda and Honda have the right approach for their electric cars. 200 km is plenty for daily commute and unless you are gonna spend a boatload on a model 3 LR/polestar 2 range isn't gonna be enough anyway. I don't want to have to stop every 300km on a good day. Once they can make them but much heavier than petrol cars and with 600+ range AND for a decent price we will start taking, but even then I think their worse from a car enthusiasts POV.

[@markeldik7057]

@Car Freaknatic and as a final addition H2 vehicles would be an amazing addition. I live in the Netherlands and during the day I quite often see the windmills do nothing, because their is not enough energy being used and no way to store it. Guess what we could do with all that free energy? Exactly store it in H2. It's never a good thing to be reliant on one technology. It's good to have competition

[@markeldik7057]

@Car Freaknatic that's why Tesla is notoriously one of the least reliable brands in the world... But you know you can just suck up what Mr musk and his friends tell you or think for yourself. If you start doing that you will realize. Wait a minute both the world isn't ready for electric cars and electric cars aren't ready for the world. The world is more than just a few rich countries. But as said I think electrifying cars it's stupid. The 9 biggest transport ships are just as polluting as all cars combined. And then we have 1000s more of those things. If we want to reduce our ecological footprint. There are WAY better places to start than the car. Make sure you don't throw away food, use as little plastics as possible if something breaks, repair it don't get a new one. I could go on. Again I'm all for the environment, BUT I'm firmly against the simbolic policies the government's are employing. Cause guess what if they truly cares about the environment. They would be building nuclear power plants in droves. It's by far the cleanest reliable source of energy available, but they are too scared of public opinion even though there have been only 2 accidents ever. Chernobyl they disabled the safety systems, with them enabled nothing would have happened. Fukushima didn't get the reactor exposed even though it was hit by an earthquake and a tsunami...

[@andrewwolkowich]

Now take into account driving in rain and snow slush on the windows running wipers with heat. Standard driving in Canada. Add in -.40 wind chill and which car will function.

[@ianmurray250]

Well for screen demisting and warming the passenger compartment the EV wins as both are more powerful and work faster (even with the engine off), they are especially good if you choose to pre-heat (or cool) the passenger compartment before getting in, but given that 50% of an ICE fuel is wasted as heat (or thrown away in summer) an ICE car helps you to heat up the environment outside if that's what you want. Snow slush and rain are the same for both and will lead to a reduction in battery capacity but not by much. Just plug it in when you get home. Tesla tested their cars in Canadian winters whilst European manufacturers like the mini were tested in Norway.

[@mellymoo_eats]

EV's are good but the charging infrastructure in London rubbish especially if you live in a terrace house & parking is at limited. My nearest charging point is 2 miles away from home and I'm not going leave my car at far to charge over night!

[@helenlawson8426]

you need to talk to your local Council as they have grants for street charging in lamp posts or bollards that for some reason they're not good at publicising. These people might be able to help you with a local charger and in doing so maybe change your mind on EVs. ubitricity.co.uk/

[@ibrahimb6226]

i think for the time being Hybrids are the best way to go. Don't have to worry about charging infrastructure and you get insane mileage.

[@LetsTakeWalk]

Battery tech will improve. Lithium Sulfur batteries are on the horizon, with double the charge and 30% cheaper. This will increase range and lower cost.

[@expatbiker6598]

Who drives to congestion charging zone 5 days a week when all they can afford is a 20k car.

[@raymondsmith9936]

Rory, the Energy Saving Trust gives you £500 towards a home charger and £300 towards installation so you can scratch that off the list.

[@nyeainsbar2793]

Not anymore. The grant is now only £350 and BP charge £550 after the grant has been deducted. (They are installing mine next week)

[@jeffellis1149]

You missed two major factors. Depreciation and servicing

[@mvp2206]

Were options factored into the price of the Mini also and wouldn't the Cooper S also be the equivalent? The Mini Electric comes with greater kit levels also, so if you factor in a Mini Cooper S Classic with the same level of equipment, the starting price goes from £20,600 to around £23,480 (up to £24,730 if going with the Cooper S Sport?)

[@StefanGonick]

An electric car also saves money the more years you keep it due to lower maintenance costs...

[@one4UBD]

Sir, Normal car costs me £200 to £300 on normal maintenance. I can buy them £15,000 to £25,000 cheaper than electric cars. I spend £200 per month on fuel which is £24,00 per year. Still cheaper. Thanks A Common Man

[@bruh-oj7sp]

What about reliability and service costs?

[@christophermawdsley7604]

Not sure why you are comparing the base cooper s vs the mid level cooper se, especially considering the base cooper se includes what are optional extras in the cooper s by default.

[@alexgray6082]

Rory, how about factoring in the yearly maintenance costs of ev vs petrol. No oil changes, no oil filter changes, less wear on break pads etc..

[@TheRapidGamer]

I'll be happy to switch to electric when there is a decent charging network in place, but not before then.

[@willyd-adv]

Uhmmmmm there is

[@dailyguilde425]

How about a Supercharger in Homes... With 600 miles range.

[@TheRapidGamer]

@@willyd-adv Uhmmmm how do you have any clue about where I live and therefore the charging network in place around me? Because I can assure you, there is no charging network anywhere near me. Are you omnipresent or just a total douchebag who will disagree over something they have no idea about?

[@TheRapidGamer]

@@dailyguilde425 No electric car gets near that in real world range. It's also entirely irrelevant what is available at home, if you do long journeys like me (I cover several hundred miles per day) and would NEED to recharge on a journey. Hence, no decent charging network is a problem.

[@MrGonzonator]

@@TheRapidGamer how do you manage to travel such a large distance and not go near a fast charger? They're all up and down the motorway networks?

[@PureAFM]

Mini is such a daft car to use as a comparison for value, especially for electrics.

[@trillistseth]

I think it’s important to say that of she owns the car for longer, the electric car will become cheaper. Once she owns it for 8 years it starts becoming cheaper. Maths: 20480 vs (26900+599 charger) initial cost Yearly costs= £1000 +150 road tax vs £168 electricity (£14 a month) So after 8 years, the petrol costs 29680 and the ev costs 28843. Admittedly it only starts being cheaper after 8 years, but that’s not a unreasonable length of time for a new car. And that was only the 8000 miles a year you quoted, aka the cars only on 64000 miles

[@Car_bore]

A 1.5l cooper isn't on the same level performance wise as the electric mini. A closer comparison would be the petrol cooper s. While the cooper s might be slightly faster to 60 than the electric cooper it doesn't give you the same instant power. The electric cooper is also 2 seconds faster than the cooper s round a go-kart track.

[@ONhistoryplus]

Rory, where did you get your Mini Electric PCP monthly figure from? The Mini website says an Electric Level 2 will cost £320.65/month on an 8000 mile/year PCP with £4500 deposit.

[@Oblivianos]

what is the pcp he said? does that mean in installments? or lease? what if you upright save money and buy it so only costs are the fuel/tax/insurance?

[@johndoyle4723]

I own an EV because the driving experience is so superior to an equivalent ICE. Automatic, very fast accelaration, very quiet, and some environmental plus points. OK the long term owner will also benefit financially. Thanks for the video.

[@petehampton6051]

Just replaced my PHEV Co Car to a BEV Co Car. BIK is now £0pm compared to £250pm rising to £25pm next April then £45pm in April 2022. The cost savings are a no-brainer if you're fortunate enough to drive a Co car

[@rogerfinch7651]

Servicing costs Rory!!!!! Tsk!

[@chrisj9700]

The price difference is narrower for cars taken out on a lease rather than a loan. EVs right now are still really only ideal if you have it as a company car to make the most out of the ultra low benefit-in-kind tax.

[@johnrush3596]

There is the olev grant for the wall charger and some manufacturers do provide discounts .... Great comparison .

[@joshl8599]

No addition for servicings, oil changes, etc?

[@j1mgg1234]

Would it no have been better doing total cost over 3 years, or however long the average person keeps a new car in the UK?

[@timlevy1857]

Servicing - If your vehicle is kept for 300,000km - that is an insane amount of money spent on servicing while an EV is virtually $0. Break pads and discs changed at 30K-50K ($200-300AU per/ $2-3K) depending on city driving percentages etc. Oil change every 5-10K (overpriced garage $300 per / $9,000) Most Teslas after 275,000km have had their battery capacity only diminished by 10%. The real reason the Auto Industry doesn't want us to have EV's is the spares and repairs industry which is work $1 trillion a year. They are not going to kill that off in a hurry...

[@Niki-bh4wx]

It seems that you forgot to add maintenance fees into calculation for comparison, such as oil change for engine and gear box. In addition, ICE cars have a lot more moving parts than electronic cars, etc...

[@mattangell1520]

What about including servicing costs?

[@ivanjovanovic362]

We can all agree Sally isn't too brigth for wanting Mini as her daily

[@nakul0888]

All that govt cronyism in favour of the ev and it still isn’t that economical to buy. What a shame.

[@robiulahmed]

Another thing to take into account is longevity. The older that battery gets, the less charge it holds. It's also subject to lower economy when the temperature is too low (or too high). All in all, petrol all the way.

[@philmonk8422]

Are residuals higher for ev at the end of 3 years?

[@Brian-om2hh]

Yes, undoubtedly......

[@clkoay]

Rory, to compare it fairly, you also need to include the car's battery replacement cost in year 8 onward or thereabout when the EV battery degrades to a point like non removal battery in a modern mobile unable to hold a charge and servicing cost compared to an ICE. I love to see the calculation on this as we in my country, the price of a grey imported "new" Tesla E is MYR479000 which is GBP87230 and buying a new Tesla EV is going to be out of reach for most average wage earner. Most people like me look at the used car market and I may want to buy a used EV. Nissan LEAF cost MYR168000 which is GBP30600 which was tax free for a while. Nissan LEAF is now withdrawn from the Malaysian market after the govt withdrew the tax free incentive. A new LEAF would cost at least MYR268000 which would be GBP48,800 with tax levied on.

[@oldgrowler]

I have to say how did you end up comparing a level 2 against a 1.5 cooper sport? Wouldn't you need the 2 ltr to compare in power terms and the level 1 would must likely still have more standard equipment or add the optional extras on to petrol and see if the price is that much different? The concept of comparison is great but do it right and compare true like for like. I've also been asking companies to look into doing a test with all ev's on same tyres test to see how much changing your tyres will affect range and road noise.

[@Rexbilly9819]

What about ICE carr servicing costs and which depreciates most?

[@SIXITHS]

ICE needs more service parts but you can perform the service yourself without too much difficulty, whereas EVs will need thousands worth or specialist tools and training to perform. In depreciation EVs are appallingly bad, as most will be wothless after >10 years or >100k miles when the battery pack inevitably dies and needs replacement.

[@rtfazeberdee3519]

For traveling the average 8k miles per year, you don't need a wall box (its an optional nicety to have though), you plug in every night, charge after midnight and you only have to recharge for the miles driven that day and 4.5 hours of cheap time charge should do that easily. Does any reviewer ever to a full range test of city driving for both ICE and EV? Everyone uses the mixed driving figures which are not really representative of "normal" city driving. There are lots of people out there that only use their EVs for city/town driving and get a far better range than suggested by the figures

[@ultrastoat3298]

Really need the prices you used for petrol and for electricity. The gas vs electricity savings should be staggering.

[@jimblack8104]

A comparison for someone without home charging would be a good idea

[@eeyvrcs]

What's interesting to me is back in 2001 everyone told me, *never buy new, avoid first 3/4 years' depreciation* , but nowadays the trend is the opposite, get brand new cars every 3 or 4 years on lease/hire purchase, effectively willingly paying for the depreciation. I still avoid buying new cars so the question I'd really like answering is a 4/5 yr used electric car cheaper overall than a 4/5 yr used ICE car? I feel the answer is still no because electric cars currently hold their value much, much better.

[@ianmurray250]

Second hand electric cars are cheaper but not by much as demand for second hand electric cars is high.

[@stuartburns8657]

1. Tax breaks and incentives only for the early adopting rich. Those who typically spend 30k every few years on a new motor. 2. Mileage is the main factor in cost savings. If you don't drive a great deal, you'll simply never get close to recouping the money. 3. Lower maintenance. Subjective. Based on Tesla cars, you don't want to be stuck with an out of warranty model. 4. Insurance. Much more expensive, further undermining savings. 5. For the majority of UK drivers who own 14k< 2nd hand vehicles, little if anything on the market of comparable size. Leaf's and Zoe's don't cut it unless you are a school run Mum 6. Fossil fuel vs electricity savings are not simply as big as you think. Also, if you've got home solar + battery pack, that's not free home charging. That's another 10k+ of investment.

[@PabloTBrave]

Who does 16k milage not many as the average is 12k but good video and you are right it depends on use case . Loads of factors to consider if you do lots of little journeys are less but longer journeys and it's a one or two car household.

[@kofio7581]

What about the cost of servicing your car every year?

[@Tomoyo0827]

You shouldn't buy an EV with less than 600km theoretical range or you will be constantly fearing for running out juice. Especially in the post-COVID era, waiting for 30 mins at the charging station with people around you is NOT smart

[@boostav]

You can wait inside the car ...

[@stephanweinberger]

If you only ever charge during the night (which was used as an example here) you dont need a wallbox. A standard outlet will do, maybe get a camping plug for mechanical durability...

[@Brian-om2hh]

Charging would typically take around 3 times longer using a normal domestic outlet.

[@stephanweinberger]

@@Brian-om2hh So what? It doesn't matter if it takes 2 or 8 hours to recharge over night - you're sleeping anyways.

[@Brian-om2hh]

@@stephanweinberger I know. I sometimes charge using a normal socket. It depends on your car, but you may only get 20 miles or so added in just one night. But you can of course repeat the following night....

[@stephanweinberger]

@@Brian-om2hh from a normal wall socket (even in the US with their 110V system) you should get at least 1.5kW. That over 8 hours is 12kWh. That should be enough for at least 40 miles.

[@SalvageDIYers]

Always factor in a hybrid cars range, gas per gallon, how many gallons it can hold and as a plus it runs on electric motor periodically. Gas is way more accessible than electric charges making it more efficient for long road trips. I wouldn't worry too much about depreciation because they're close to the same. Hybrid cars are known to have better warranties especially with Hyundai. I have a Hyundai Ioniq and it is nice!

[@vladsaghin7644]

A better comparaison would've been to choose the Cooper S (petrol) instead since they have similar performance. And I'm pretty sure the spec on the Copper SE 2 destroys the one on the basic Cooper

[@bjmullan]

What about service costs? This is an area were EV benefit greatly of their ICE equivalents.

[@davidholden2658]

Now do a comparison for a company car driver!

[@D_HongKongVideos]

Brakes, servicing, congestion charge. If you have a garage, why have a wall box? Surely a 3 PIN plug can charge in 10 hours

[@rtfazeberdee3519]

For all those still peddling the myth of replace battery after 10 years, look up a company called tesloop - they are taxi company and they run Teslas and have vehicles on their books with mileages of 300k and over.

[@Brian-om2hh]

Only 300k? There is one Model S on KZbin which has covered 400'000 kms on it's original battery.

[@chm1701]

Would I consider an electric car? Absolutely. I drive about 13000-15000 miles a year, but the limiting factor is distance, because I drive my car when I go on holiday too, which can be around the islands of Scotland. They do really interest me, so we’ll see what the future (or even near future), holds.

[@AutoCAD681]

Can you do another one taking into account of depreciation? I'm hoping the PCP works out cheaper at the end when you trade in ?

[@ianmurray250]

Depreciation is a difficult one to predict, in 2019 BEV depreciation was very low, even negative at times, but we are now seeing a rapid increase in the numbers of cars being built and sold. At some stage in the future, perhaps in 4 or 5 years time, the bottom is going to fall out of the ICE second hand market, this will be when everyone realises how cheap and easy BEV cars are to run. Petrol/diesel price increases may also be used by government to nudge people into moving to electric too. On the other hand there is a suggestion that BEV owners may continue to run the same car for 20+ years due to the simplicity of the car making having to buy a new one a thing of the past, if this was true depreciation may be low as 3rd or 4th-hand cars may also be of high value.

[@Max.44]

16,000km a year to be less expensive :O That is ridiculous

[@VisuaLpauL]

over there in the States, they do drive 10,000 mi/yr on average (but the fuel is massively cheaper)

[@Max.44]

@@VisuaLpauL That's actually spot on 16,000km. However, like you said the Ice Mini would be less than half on fuel. Additionally, the more you drive it the more you safe in an EV and your Ev lifespan shrinks drastically with the exponential deterioration of batteries. Leaving you with range issues after a couple of years if not from the start.

[@kenduro592]

Not to mention if you set your mileage on your insurance and you for whatever reason you ran well over and have an accident then you could be voiding your insurance and incurring more costs.

[@LeyerTech]

Not ridiculous, I commute around 25 000 km a year for example.

[@robiulahmed]

Can you imagine the amount of time spent charging? If you're doing that sort of mileage, refilling/charging away from home is an inevitability. Once everybody starts using EVs, the queues at charging stations will be horrific.

[@FFVoyager]

You have not added the cost of servicing the ICE v the EV. My guess is that they would be several hundred pounds more expensive for the ICE.

[@TekAutomatica]

1. Honda Insight still cool 0.25Cd and 100mpg. Like Audi A2 1.2 TDI 2. Second hand ICE cheaper than a lease whereas older (mk1 and MK2) Nissan Leaf now has poor battery capacity, especially if rapid charged a lot as no proper thermal management of pack. 3. Compare like with like: range of mini ice on a tank v EV on full pack? What's change in winter? ICE less affected as heat is effectively free not a 3kW electric heater. 4. Almost nobody does 16000 miles in a small pack EV per year. That's traditional diesel owner mileage. More likely 9k pa. 5. Public charging price per kWh much higher than fossil juice. Look at Polar instant fees. 1litre if diesel is approx 10kWh for around £1.20 including massive amount of tax ( UK drivers contribute 40 billion a year in fuel duty and VED, 10% of which spent on roads including cycle lanes) 6. Pack degrades around 3% per annum which isn't much for a huge 750kg Tesla pack but a lot for 250kg 33kWh one. 7. If no driveway then no preconditioning without SOC loss and associated loss of range in EV. 8. If car left at cold airport for a week or two likely discharge of 12v DC unit. Cold soaked pack very very slow to recharge even on 50kW CCS 9. First Porsche was an EV back in 1890s so enough of the ice age nonsense! 10. EVs higher torque and weight ( compare the Mini 1.5 to EV) means higher tyre wear and roadside PM's from road contact.

[@mattangell1520]

Recently sold my Mazda 6 and bought Tesla model 3. After monthly payments and electricity I'm paying the same now per month as I did for my Mazda + fuel. It was a no brainer!

[@paulleonard1296]

Wait till Sally fancies a trip to the countryside at the weekend. Then she'll definitely want the Petrol version

[@rtfazeberdee3519]

depends how far the countryside is from where she lives, its only 20 miles from where i live :)

[@simonyapp]

Try looking at zap map, there a lot of fast reliable chargers that only take 20mins ish to top up popping up all over the place. Even in the country side I keep finding new chargers from instavolt and Bp Chargemaster! So driving our 2nd hand leaf is becoming v easy! (And bloody cheap)

[@JJPSB23]

I have an EV but decided to go back to ICE for the second family hauler. It didn't make sense to go EV again when my office commute is only 11kms one way. Plus, with COVID I'm now only in the office once a week. Long story short, it doesn't make sense to buy a $100,000 EV SUV to save $150/month on petrol. On the plus side, the family hauler makes nice sounds

[@ianmurray250]

11kms commute, consider a bicycle or and e-bike. Great exercise too.

[@nightnomad635]

What about maintenance and servicing for both cars? Great video. Thanks Rory! Also, I thought the government provided an incentive for home chargers to be installed

[@michaelcole3998]

Goes to show we still have some way to go to make EVs a really cost effective alternative to petrol. They will get there no doubt just not quite yet.

[@czcz5149]

It’s true. They aren’t quite there yet. But they are a heck of a lot closer than even 2 years ago. So in like 2023/2024 we could be looking at price parity

[@MCSMIK]

We have been driving EVs with my wife for 2 years now. We are “there”. A used Nissan Leaf my wife drives costs us so little to run it’s comical. Just over £1 to charge on octopus agile tariff and that takes her to work and back almost twice (45 miles a day)

[@jonathondeeds3423]

@@czcz5149 thing is combustion engines are also improving at a rapid rate.

[@PK-xu7gu]

Do you think about the slave labour used to create the car when your pootling around?

[@czcz5149]

P K hi P K. I would love some links or reference for your claims. Just some proof to back you up. Because I’m sure you aswel as me would hate to misrepresnt somebody

[@Grahamkirk724]

And I bet Sally would get a lot more in resale value in a few years on the bev!