Are great games being ignored? An investigation

Do great games sell themselves? Let's take a look at some of the highest rated games on Steam and see if we can find any hidden gems. What can we learn from them?
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#gamedevelopment #videogames #indiegame #steam #marketing

[@Lantalia]

Niche games tend to be much more highly rated because those of us that know we aren't going to like them ignore them automatically. The rating is much more an indication of how accurate the games impression is to it's quality within its niche

[@NickCastonNZ]

Well put!

[@ezraho8449]

That is probably also the same reason the anime games are highly rated but low income. It’s a small community that is super focused and dedicated.

[@MINIMAN10000]

@@ezraho8449 I was 5 seconds into the video when I was like "I really hope we ignore niche's where you obviously love what exists but will filter out anyone who isn't the target audience like visual novels" Yep. Fortunately he did. Was so glad he was brutally honest because it pretty much mirrored my thoughts on things as well. You can tell when things are off when you come from an outside perspective. Also the final conclusion that taking into consideration community and shareability of a game I feel was both blatantly obvious as I'm constantly pulling up twitch streams and reddit pages to see content. But I had no real way of grounding this sort of thought in reality. It's one thing to think it, but it's another to be able to compare similar games with different outcomes, Statistics.

[@fridsrikenileri1268]

Yeah. And also higher probability to get dragged into "mainstream AAA" games by friends. And they don't wanna do the same with the niche games.

[@RhizometricReality]

Gotta recommend Neon Tail

[@BrettTaylor1]

Brett here! When I was making Linelight, I would often worry, "Why would anyone play this it's just a bunch of lines". There is a lot of love and heart in Linelight, way more than I expected when I started it, and I've gotta acknowledge I'm blessed to see it's received so warmly with audiences. My big takeaway here is a reminder of THE POWER OF THEMING. As is, Linelight presents great to the niche of minimalist puzzle game enthusiasts. Looking at Mini Metro, I think "I want to build a subway!" Linelight might be more like, "I have no frame of reference, let me read more up on it!" If I'd made it train-themed (or electricity, or anything really), it would 100% have captured a bigger audience. My pitch at conferences used to be a campy, "What do you think about LINES? here's a controller". Contrast that to a "What do you think about TRAINS? here's a controller". Themes are catchy, man. And it's a tough one as an artist, 'cause I think the lack of theme is what's made it so emotionally affecting for many folks, you kind of project yourself on the characters (there's a story that unfolds throughout the entire game.... it's easy to experience but difficult to describe). Most of the game is puzzles, though, and I don't think a theme would have been a detriment to them. So, without unpacking all the marketing/conferences/hustling/store-featuring, my current best hypothesis is this: In terms of sales for an abstract game like Linelight, a little theming can go a looong way. Thank you for this video, Nick! Very well researched, and very well assembled! Also, thank you for all your kind words about the game. I don't always know how to go about it, but I do know I'm here to bring y'all smiles and love and warmth. I'm gonna keep trying my best and learning as much as I can along the way!

[@Myrvold]

What I'd be curious to know is if this video have brought any noticeable uptick in sales.

[@BrettTaylor1]

​@@Myrvold I wondered that right away too. 😅 Not much direct Steam sales impact, had a lil' 3-day bump of a few dozen extra purchases. So, nothing out of the ordinary. I mean, I'm always happy when new people get to experience the game. Go buy Linelight! Let's overtake Mini Metro and Nick will have to make another video about the impact of KZbin comments!

[@Myrvold]

@@BrettTaylor1 Interesting. Not that I expected thousands and thousands of new sales, but I actually thought it would be a bit more than it was. Thanks for answering! :)

[@al.bay24]

​@@BrettTaylor1 This is probably the reason for Hook doing so well compared to Linelight.

[@NickCastonNZ]

Hey Brett! Thanks so much for sharing these insights! It's cool to hear the behind-the-scenes a bit. I find the point about players being able to project themselves onto the abstract visuals particularly interesting, reminds me of what people say about pixel art compared with high fidelity art - people can fill in the blanks much more liberally. Thanks for making Linelight! I look forward to seeing whatever you make next.

[@predictorbibulous3327]

"GAMES AREN'T BOOKS" so true.

[@moresnqp]

the research with linelight's marketing was crazy

[@magnets1000]

Look at games published on Steam by year. 2013 early access for mini metro. 2017 release for limelight meant there were 10x as many games released that same year.

[@angelo.strand]

Yeah it’s getting more competitive

[@Megalomaniakaal]

That too, definitely. But I feel like the answer he landed on here is also relevant and correct. It's both of those.

[@V2ULTRAKill]

@@Megalomaniakaal theres also the fact a lot of great independent titles fall under a niche that isnt as readily profitable as your main genre staples

[@gamerinatrance3618]

This is true. Its frankly a lost cause for most indie devs because their games are barely even getting seen by the tiny minority of players that even care to begin with.

[@TosadoGardosen]

Part of the reason for that, and something that wasn't brought up in this video, Steam Greenlight was on the way out in early 2017, and was replaced by Q3 2017. Steam Greenlight nearly assured every indie game that made it through at least moderate success due to the voting involved.

[@Avecit_]

Great video! For me the differences in the success between the 2 are: - Genre: management vs puzzle - Player Fantasy: "Manage the subway system of a city" vs "Move a line"

[@crimsonlightbinder]

👆 this!

[@jeck0_0.]

yes exactly, MiniMetro makes it very intuitive what the goal of the game is, whereas linelight is more abstract, you don't know why you're moving that line around solving puzzles

[@kelownatechkid]

Exactly. the goal is obvious and easy for any person to understand!

[@AntiGravityC9]

even if Limelight has better player retention and each player that tries it likes it more, it doesn't matter much if there isn't an obvious reason to even try/buy the game in the first place

[@LanceWillMakeIt]

So facts

[@PaulRoneClarke]

I should also add that I was a marketer for a publisher on Steam for several years (Degica was the publisher) and there isn't really a firm correlation between reviews and sales. The error bars for making any predictions are enormous. Think in terms of 1000's of percent error margins. For example we sold one cheap and easy game "Goats on a Bridge" that (at time of writing) had 47 reviews (overall positive) and sold less than 500 copies. A review rate of almost 10%. The game now has a new publisher I might add. We also sold RPG Maker MV which has around 5,100 reviews and has sold 1.6 million copies. A review rate of 0.3% roughly. Even lower A Train 9 V4 (also now with a new publisher) has 94 reviews and sold 22,714 copies at the point Degica stopped supporting it in very 2016 ( I know this one exactly) 0.041% review rate. The error bars for assuming sales based on reviews are enormous. Unfortunately that means that any assumptions made based on a sales to reviews ratio are pretty meaningless . Games that provoke an emotion, exceed or fail to live up to expectation. Have hype or even reward reviews (which many do) have a hugely higher chance of getting a review than those that don't Many many multiples higher. The other things that "dad's" who play hex based strategy games don't do? Is leave reviews on Steam. They watched a video from a sober, mature KZbinr (maybe) went on a forum. Watched/read some AARs, bought a Steam key. and played what to them was already a known quantity before they even bought the game. That's what over 50's do. Emotionally they already knew more or less exactly what they were buying. How it played and their expectations are very rarely under or over achieved. Some of the games you assume have low sales I expect have many more than you think. Decisive Campaigns sold more than 12,000 copies on Steam - and is also available on other platforms where, although not as popular in "pop culture" as Steam, are much preferred by strategy gamers for not having any DRM. I don;t know how many copies it sold on those other platforms, but I know if you visit the games forums almost everyone there studiously avoided buying the Steam version of the game to avoid the need for always on DRM.

[@PHeMoX]

Yeah exactly. And it gets worse whenever a game gets boosted to insane sale numbers by online streamers on KZbin or Twitch. More eyes on a game, generally does equate to higher sales. It does _not_ mean those games are therefore that much better at all. Plenty of the meme games are complete trash. And yes, this includes very overrated games boosted by streamers/YT game critics like Undertale. It would actually make more sense to investigate what are objectively mediocre or even bad games and figure out why they sold high numbers anyway. In some cases the answer isn't much more difficult than 'soccer moms bought the game for their kid for christmas' after seeing its ad on TV and their kids not leaving them alone about it, think Call of Duty, Fifa 22 etc.. Or what to think of the many nostalgia boner remakes that sold on nothing but an old fan base that is reminded of the 90s / 00s when the game originally got released and newer players being encouraged to buy because of this hype / visibility. WoW Classic, but also Tony Hawk Pro Skater 1+2 comes to mind here. A game combo that is in no way spectacular whatsoever. And judging by how the Tony Hawk Pro Skater 3+4 got cancelled, it probably underperformed in expected sales, lol. Well, what did they expect for games that do not hold up anymore in today's world of video gaming? It's not worth the $30 and remember it launched for $55 or so. And even then it'll still have sales because of people who want new Tony Hawk Pro Skater games to be made and naively think it would help by supporting these remakes. It doesn't work like that. Unless people have been asleep, it is well known the demand for good skateboarding games has been as high as never before. It's why Skate 4 is being made. It's why Session exists, as does SkaterXL, but also the Olli Olli games. People _do_ want more skateboarding games. But they have to be good.

[@borazan]

Your first example is flawed, since you're comparing apples to oranges. A game that has sold less than 500 copies vs a sequel to an already established and well known game engine

[@elLooto]

@@borazan comparing 47 reviews and 500 sales with 94 reviews and 22000 sales seems quite reasonable to me when making the point that reviews =/= sales. Much more important is that the vid makes no pareto analysis while trying to understand revenue distributions.

[@PaulRoneClarke]

Well, I would disagree sort of. Low sample size doesn't mean flawed. It means less reliable. It's an example of the vast number of factors that influence whether a game receives 0.003% sales to review ratio or 9% sales to review ratio. There are plenty of other examples in my experience working with the back end of Steam as a develop I could give you. Degica published a number of bullet hell arcade conversions about 7 years ago as well. Eschatos and Exzeal being 2 examples that both sold over 10,000 copies. Eschatos (12,881) getting 162 reviews. Exzeal (11,002) getting 15 reviews. A ratio difference of about 1000% from very similar games from the same publisher released within a year of each other. The overarching point being that one of two conclusions can be drawn. Either; a) There is no possible way to extrapolate sales numbers from reviews numbers. Or b) There is a way but it is complex and takes many factors into account and miscalculating on any of those factors can leave error margins that make any conclusions drawn rather meaningless.

[@chuckwood3426]

Yea, this! Also we cant tell if different genres have different propensities of being reviewed. Like, will people really write public review of an erotic anime game when their friends will also get that review in their activity flow? Also I think good but "harmless" games will get few reviews because while a lot of people kind of enjoys them, they are not something that you talk with your friends about on breaks at work. And thus you probably will not review them either. Divisive games on the other hand will get more reviews.

[@Russman]

I love your disposition!🤣🤣

[@debonairrose]

6:58 as soon as you started remove categories with that kind of reasoning i was instantly hooked, nice analysis!

[@boensaw5175]

hey i made the game you said looks like crap at 7:23 ! lol great video though, it mirrors a lot of the thought process and conclusions i've gone through myself. Good on you for gathering up data to support your conclusions. Overall steam is very egalitarian, moreso than any other storefront i'm aware of. You can't even pay money to get to the front page ala appstore and others, it's purely based on metrics. So because of this, marketing and making something that truly interests people matters a lot

[@novh4ck]

He knows nothing. :P Your game's style looks awesome.

[@NickCastonNZ]

Oh gosh! This is my nightmare. I almost cut that part because it felt too unfair. But I kept it in for (attempted) comedic value and I figured my channel was small enough that you wouldn't see. I hope my random internet stranger words weren't too discouraging! Make whatever games you want and just ignore me

[@fatfingersman]

xd

[@raquexx]

which one did u make exactly

[@boensaw5175]

@@raquexx Fight Knight

[@LizardOfOz]

18:46 "Sharing how you've solved the puzzle kinda ruins it for everyone else." This applies tenfold to streams and let's plays: watching someone play Mini-Metro or Shapez makes you want to try the game yourself, while watching someone play a linear experience means you've already seen everything the game has to offer, even if through a proxy. Now the potential customer has to either stop watching, or come back a year later once you've forgot how the puzzles are solved, but how many people would do that? One extra problem with linear puzzles is that people watch streamers to turn their brains off. It's more comfy to just keep watching, rather than close the stream and go play yourself.

[@andrewshandle]

This is what really killed the game That Dragon, Cancer. By all accounts a great game, but it's a short, linear story driven game and people just watched streamers play it on twitch and got about 90% of the value out of it. There was no reason to go and buy it after that, and it ended up selling just 14,000 copies and lost money.

[@mdd4296]

@@andrewshandle I'm not so sure about that. There are quite a number of indie horror game that still make a profit for their developers despite being totally linear and even janky in a bad way. Maybe less people go look for a game with heavy subject matter like Cancer.

[@exoplaneeet9499]

imo this is why watching a speedrun is the best way to experience a game you plan on playing yourself-- the runner does things so quickly theres no way you can tell what the hell is going on, much less remember, and even glitchless 100% runs tend to skip over a lot of things, especially in more optimized games

[@doctorwhouse3881]

@@mdd4296 Horror has tons of fans with close to zero quality control.

[@mdd4296]

@@doctorwhouse3881 I meant, that's kinda the point.

[@PaulRoneClarke]

A lot of the strategy games you showed as “dad games”, in fact possibly all of them, had been released on other platforms first. Sometimes years before. Matrix Games, Paradox (which had its own store front for years) and Slitherine (which sells or at least used to sell both direct and on Matrix) There are some really niche games that came over from platforms like Desura after years and years selling there. More still sell across different platforms like IOS etc. The port to Steam in some cases is a relatively simple job and just to get some extra easy cash that would otherwise be left on the table.

[@casedistorted]

Wtf is Matrix? And these are def games my dad would’ve played but he does use Steam and he doesn’t own any of them, probably because they’re not well known. He used to love those kinds of games when I was a kid though. He needs simpler games as he gets older sadly.

[@justinlangley8972]

Paradox Interactive does not belong in the "dad games" genre, but most of their games are definitely some kind of niche. On the other hand, they're a publisher, not a studio, they're pretty diverse in the strategy game genre, and they make a ton of bank. I think a ton of people could find at least one of their games enjoyable. I'm sure this video is talking more along the lines of individual studios why some games don't perform because the publisher tends to have little to do with core game mechanics.

[@Nimmermehr666]

"Mom, can I play Hollow Night?" "We have Hollow Knight at home" Hollow Knight at home: *Space Gladiators*

[@theinvisibleskulk4563]

I think the factors are: 1: Communication with popular independent vloggers and livestreamers 2: Interesting but not oversaturated genre 3: Widely accessible alpha/lengthy demo 4: Appealing concept 5: Friendly to players sharing their runs

[@tourmi]

This video was recommended to me by the youtube algorithm™, and damn. A really great breakdown! I hope youtube continues recommending smaller channels like this one in the future

[@elMachii]

“The games my dad would play” is so spot on. Im dad is 46 born 1976. He grew up on Tecmo Bowl on NES (sports sim) and he now plays MLB games, Aerial Combat games, and strategy games like Rise of Nations. Basically all simulators 😅🥲

[@gamongames]

that last category exclusion was a mistake. 'weird suff' may not sell well, but its also where a lot of gems reside and the weird of today can be the new overdone genre of tomorrow. Id go through those as well, as its a very heterogeneous category on itself and its performance cant be explained by just "genre x doesnt sell well"

[@gamongames]

also, even tho I understand the initial comparison between the mini games and linelight, theyre still fundamentally different in a way I think perfectly explains their different performances (I say that as a professional gamedev with user acquisition experience). the mini games have an art direction thats just more approachable and familiar. the graphic design invokes infographics, public signage and flat-color-on-white-background design thats ubiquitous in modern branding and UX. linelight already starts in disadvantage with its dark general vibe, which is known to be less appealing to the general public in terms of UX, the visual elements are way thiner and more delicate than the minis while also being stylzed, which adds friction to the readability (even tho it adds style), and it is ultimately hurt by its premise compared to the minis. linelight is a game where you have a main character that goes through a linear puzzle-narrative, which means it depends a lot on the player's ability to connect emotionally to whats happening and its not very replayable. its a game that needs you to go through a rise in engagement to motivate you to keep coming back to play it and finish but will also stop being attractive once its done. even if it does manage to cativate you when you play, as many reviews demonstrate, its introducing a lot of friction elements that go directly against that primary need with its visuals being less approachable and translating less emotiom so it fails to convert users and fails to retain most of them after they start. in the other hand the minis go in exact opposite with very clear and readable gameplay, no narrative or main characters that'd introduce the need for a stronger emotional connection and procedural gameplay that scales well. it doesnt need you to be continuosly engaged with it because there's no direct connection between play sessions. no narrative or character to care about. the gameplay offers variety through progress but can be approached way more casually, accepting a higher fluctuation of engagement. you can forget about it for a week and still decide to go back on a whim and still have the same experience without needing to get back into any emotional state or remember any narrative. its easy to see how different both games would be at their ability to acquire new users and retain them for longer and more numerous play sessions, which even ties into the points you bring up in the video. minimetro had a free web version, relatable concept and was about creativity which is shareable, sure but being a jam game that would normally only mean other gamedevs and enthusiasts get to play it. without paid marketing, only virality couldve made it reach the general public and without the positives I mentioned it would never have gone viral.

[@cuddlecakes7153]

House for example is one of those "weird games" but it's really good in my opinion. It's really unique.

[@floydstephman]

At one point Dota was an over complicated oddity with little mass appeal now it's the hottest shit around

[@EvilParagon4]

Another factor for Mini Metro. It came out in 2014, the start of the indie boom. While casual relaxing games are avoided now, that wasn’t always the case. Thanks to minimalist games that came out of the indie boom of the mid 10s, people gained a resistance to those sorts of games popping up later. Mini Metro being earlier avoided that entirely.

[@kavaop2121]

mid 10s

[@bobmcbobbington9220]

Indie boom started in 2005ish

[@puransu20]

@@Eyeball-with-legs this is true. I only learned about Mini Metro after playing a shitton of Factorio/OTTD/Workers & Resources. there’s a huge playerbase (not even that niche of a group) who love train and rail management sims, myself included. Most of those who have played any game with trains will most likely have heard of Mini Metro, kinda like how Townscaper and Islanders are popular “casual” games for those hardcore city building players

[@astrah982]

This is exactly right. Timing, but also the store you release on AND these days the COUNTRY you release it in is a huge factor. In my opinion people should check which country their game resonates with, which culture, and market mainly to that region of the world as well.

[@astrah982]

There's a documentary about Brazillian indie game designers, and they said that 80% of their sales come outside of their own country. Also, Steam isn't the only store that exists. These are things to think about.

[@MladenMihajlovic]

One thing being missed I think is just the plain old fact that one game looks dark and the other one light. I am immediately more attracted to the more light/positive feeling game. Same for big budget AAA games - the ones with bright, sunny worlds beat out the dark/horror ones any day.

[@absence9443]

Boomerang X had such a ridiculously high potential for becoming a rapid large scale platformer

[@vintprox]

For me it's just that creative underdogs don't get recognition and a lot of mainstream games try to sit on many chairs. Recently I only play submissions for fascinating game jams (GWJ, GMTK, etc.), because feedback cycle there feels REAL and you get opportunities for contribution from time to time. It's a win-win, whereas with mainstream games I just feel like losing braincells.

[@chadnoneo9769]

I believe that is preference of collaboration vs consumption. Sometimes I myself feel more collaborative and want to create and share it, sometimes I just want to sit back and consume something that has been created.

[@atomictraveller]

i've made games (win32) and stuff (mostly vst) for decades. modern attitudes about making games mystify me. i always did things by myself, never with a team. i used borland's fclt compiler which takes about a half second to compile a win32 app and has a 5 meg hard disk footprint. i could develop super quickly because of that half second. basically i tend to write non-OO code, C more than c++. it bothers me to crap how people make an OO function that takes several lines to implement when the actual command is a single line because they are trained to write OO code, totally obfuscating the process, which is why people can never do anything, because they live in spaghetti, instead of a simple, minimal, self conceived instruction set. i finally managed to afford a 64 bit windows system this year, i've been using xp. unfortunately it will be a while before i can afford enough hrd disk to install the retarded microsoft vs shit for direct x or their package for product development, gigs and gigs of it. waaaay beyond what fits on the 60g drive my lappy has. now i make stuff with ps4 dreams and i'm among many ignored in favour of retarded crap. as a matter of fact, the gamedev website issued a special page after they banned me (i've never read it) explaining the reason for banning me for posting how my super minimal system actually produced faster win exes than microsoft despite my os being limited to opengl 1.4. apparently, non-OO code is that offensive. but in short, the reason why entertainment is often sucky is because so many people are masons and it's their duty to milk you and keep you dull. it's doubtful any reader will believe it in this lifetime, but there you are.

[@woobilicious.]

@@atomictraveller what are you smoking bruv, 64bit windows and 60gb hdd in 2022?...are you in the third world? It's pretty simple really, art wins with games not the 0.5s saved with a c compiler choice. You can make GCC fast with the right flags anyway but unless you are working off existing code bases you're spending a lot of time reinventing a 3d engine and not doing what is important, like making an actual game, Godot with gdscript is extremely fast, no compilation needed.

[@atomictraveller]

@@woobilicious. tucson. no AC. limited income. bleed out my ass regular this time of year from overwork anyway. be dead soon. expanding my hard drive wouldn't be a high priority, but i only purchased this asus L210 six months ago and the OS has increased to a size where i'm going to have to soon apparently. the vst3 sdk (which we didn't address) spits out a half gig of shit every compile. if i were you, i'd reconsider defending total fucking bullshit to someone about to die from bleeding out their ass.

[@ZX3000GT1]

@@atomictraveller 60GB drive in 2022? Even 120GB SSDs are cheap nowadays. Unless you live on the most rural area in the most third world country in the world I think most people should be able to afford it. I know, because I live in third world country myself.

[@konomiyu]

Im a visual novel fan and i think that the vns are there because of 3 reasons 1. its a niche genre, it easy to look at a visual novel and just think thats its like all the other crappy hentai games on steam if you're not in the know how 2. steam is the wrong platform for vns, if you think about it vns are essential​ly just audiobooks with some visuals. i reckon that most user on steams arent here for audio books. 3. most vn players just pirate the games, since legal sale of translated vns are a relatively new thing and most players are used to playing fan translations

[@Fujibayashi85]

As a fellow VN enjoyer, I agree with all three. In no offense to generic people but that's how it was with anime until recently. VNs, especially in the US, are pretty much a niche of a niche.......of a niche. It's a very specific audience, especially with some of the wackier ones. It makes sense though when you think about it as well with stats. MOST people on Steam aren't gonna go "Huh, I'd sure like to read and look at images for 50+ hours now. Let's try this game!". Even in close to the same realm, they'd rather play Fire Emblem, Naruto or even something like Monster Hunter. That sort of audience is kind of hard to expand upon.

[@Gnidel]

I find visual novels unplayable on PC. They work better for me on mobile, where I can lie in bed instead of sitting in chair.

[@konomiyu]

@@Gnidel I play using a laptop that i can bring to bed

[@jde12]

The other thing is there are *tons* of VNs compared to the audience that consumes them. I guess because the barrier to getting started on them is pretty low; it's largely about the writing.

[@DDracee]

yeah the steam reviews are super inaccurate for VNs and r18 games, you got stuff rated like 4/10 on vndb but "overwhelmingly positive" on steam lol, i think it's cuz only the people that actually liked said VN ends up buying it on steam same with r18 games, seen 1 star stuff on dlsite rated O-P on steam lol, same reason

[@hushamfusion]

Thanks to your video I gave Linelight and Elechead a try and had so much fun! Thanks a lot man

[@TimmacTR]

The obvious reason is that the core fantasy of Mini Metro is extremely clear and solid: you build a metro network What is the core fantasy of Linelight?

[@Valdyr_Hrafn]

as an artist I'll say this about linelight and minimetro. they might seem similar but artistically they are very different. yes they are both minimalistic, but linelight is abstract whereas mini metro is representational, it looks like a metro map, the human brain can imagine more because it recognizes the art.

[@Avengerie]

I agree. It's too minimalist. It reminded me of a science video of light beam being shot through a water bottle at 1 million frames per second. I think it would do 10 times better if the playable object was a cute worm crawling through pipes or an ant trying to find a way out of an anthill. Especially since the puzzle/game mechanic part of the game was very good.

[@0lionheart]

great way of putting it!

[@YourCaptivityisOver]

Metro has a more immediate 'charisma'. Which is something difficult to quantify.

[@zanagi]

Mini metro made it into my wishlist. Mainly because it looks complex and challenging. It looked more like a "management game" to me than a puzzle game. And yes the concept of "relatableness" is so amazing it blows my mind...

[@tschichpich]

The thing about success that I have learned is that it's like 90% good work and 10% luck. Luck is an important thing. Like getting viral. You can boost your luck by giving away keys to creators (which we could call marketing), but this still requires a good game. I know about minimetro by seeing it on youtube. I think first on aliensrock. And if you can get him to play your game (he plays many puzzle games where i count this too) you instantly get a good audience.

[@pierrotA]

I do not agree at all. IMO it's more 90% luck and 10% work. Most of the games that work great are not even that good, some of them are even pretty bad... *The meritocracy is a lie.* If you succeed you just got lucky but *the survivorship bias will make you think it's because of your work.* If you failed it's surely because you got unlucky. I recommend you to do some research on meritocracy. Making a game during years is more or less like playing the lottety... You need to be very lucky with the algorithms of stream/youtube/twitch, and the quality of your work as almost nothing to so with it. *Look at the number of games that seriously suck but that got millions of copy sold because big youtuber played it by mistake or for fun.* Look at the number of awesome games that just got ignored because they have too little visibility. *It's not for nothing that ALL recent AAA games spend more money on marketing that in dev.* We call the people on youtube and Twitch the "influencers", because it's their role... Decide what people will play based on lobby requests. Edit: too many synthax and spelling mistakes

[@krunskisenpai9148]

@@pierrotA facts but once you get famous after that its 90% work 10% luck because people already know you and are waiting for your next game or update to current game and if you don't work well people will forget you so after people know your game it's mostly work

[@pierrotA]

@@krunskisenpai9148 It's true that you need to work to stay at the top. But IMO it's still mainly chance that will determine if you survive. Each video is basicaly a lottery... Be on the good game/topic/cameo at the good time and you continue to climb, be caught in a drama or simply lose your niche public for some reason and it's over. In addition, the algorithms can change everything overnight... You can do Lego content for years with 50views, and suddenly your topic is blessed and you become famous for years, before the topic become dull again and you return to almost nothing. It's for me the reason that make most youtuber say "a video a little special today" everytime they slighly change something. They are all afraid to lose half their views for a insignificant reason.

[@sonwig5186]

Its neither 90% work 10% luck or 90% luck 10% work. Its 5% work 5% luck 90% industry connections

[@thornelderfin]

I think it's a multiplication: Product Quality * Marketing * Luck If one of these is zero or close to zero, everything will fail. They multiply each other.

[@denimchicken104]

Answer: Mini Metro is like a slice of a city builder. Understandable and fun. Limelight is an abstract puzzle. Doesn’t scream “buy me. I’ll satisfy your needs.”

[@insomnifur]

while space gladiators seems okay, it feels HEAVILY inspired by hollow knight - even down to the dashing, the enemy types, the way the currency drops, the bosses it has to be either heavily inspired or purely ripped off

[@lizardy2867]

18:12 What have we learned? Abstract art requires viewers to value it, whereas basing in familiar concepts allows users to value it at a baseline of what they know that concept to be. A game where all is possible, yet all it is said to be, is a game of infinite possibilities. A game where all is possible, and is visualized via its ability to replicate the experience of other games, as well as indicating completely new experiences. TLDR: You're selling a product, a game, not an idea or reality. People are less likely to take an invite to a museum as compared to a restaurant. *NOTE*: To dabble in neutrality for a second, don't forget that sometimes people simply like to make art, and the success of that art is secondary to the experience or message they want it to present.

[@giangabriel6111]

so being a artist it's not an actual profession but just people playing around?

[@astrah982]

Simple concept: People buy what they know from authors they perceive to know. This is why you should make some kind of personality presence online first, even if it's smaller, but always remember social media is only a formality and don't look too much at others accounts, you're there for the players only, know your purpose.

[@fluffy6923]

There is one problem with this analysis. There is no good definition for what is too niche and what isn't. Undertale, Vampire Survivors, Minecraft, Phasmophobia, Loop Hero looked like niche games and in many interviews authors of those games, believed that they are making a niche game. And yet...

[@1ProAssassin]

I think the key is to look for things that are too niche in that they'll effect the data in ways that have to do more with its nicheness/special circumstances than anything easily comparable between games.

[@ThahnG413]

Well we can't predict what will be niche in the future, but we can look at what is niche now and in the past to take games away from the data, and a game being niche is simply a small market, so applying that logic we can reasonably get rid of games types that are currently niche

[@Sl1mch1ckens]

@@ThahnG413 curious then are we counting battlefield 2042 as niche since it had lower concurrent players than farm sim 22

[@CanaldoVoid]

Quite sure all of those examples have exploded specifically due to youtuber exposure, tons of them. I think vampire Survivors, the most recent, was started by splattercat? He even mentions the game was fun and reminded him of something he used to play and it was a shame nobody was buying it before he made his video.

[@CanaldoVoid]

Oh, and Vtubers too, specially Hololive, once they set their sights onto something it turns into gold, instantly.

[@godkingofnerds1661]

Something interesting I noticed is that two of the 30 or so games on the spreadsheet of underperforming games shown were Horizon's Gate and Voidspire Tactics. These games were both developed by Rad Codex, a 1 person development team. It just sucks to see someone have not just 1 but 2 games underperforming in this way. As someone who has over 100 hours in Horizon's Gate I can say that it is definitely worth a try.

[@James-dm8cx]

2d games that aren't already established ips will always underperform

[@MFKR696]

They only "under-performed" because they didn't have millions of dollars to throw into marketing. It doesn't matter how good you are. If you can't market your wares competitively, you're not gonna get very far with it.

[@TheGrinningSkull]

@@MFKR696 using the excuse of needing millions in marketing I feel is a cop out excuse. Marketing is about virality. No point spending millions of it only generates half that. I’d recommend reading the lean startup on this for making sure you have a good viral coefficient and how to go about creating virality in the consumer space.

[@MFKR696]

@@TheGrinningSkull A bit naive, are we? lol

[@paulscott88]

Horizon's Gate is amazing to play through.

[@idklol4197]

6:18 based to the 9th power

[@dexocube]

The vacuum gag was legit

[@chazlewis8114]

Great vid! As a full time indie dev with multiple "under performing" games on Steam I want to mention two crucial metrics which we cannot easily observe: 1) Time to develop, 2) Team size. If a solo dev takes 6 months to develop a game which only makes 50k (but they can do this consistently) then they're making 100k per year. Even after the deductions its not a bad income, especially if you get to do what you love!

[@stevenglowacki8576]

I agree that being able to compare the estimated revenue to the amount of costs the game development incurred is really necessary to determine if the game really did well. If it takes you 3 years to make the game yourself you would hope for 3 times the profit of a game that took you a year to make, and if it only made 2 times as much, you would be disappointed despite making twice as much money.

[@Kenionatus]

Can I ask you what proportion of the game's revenue (before store fees) translates into income in your case?

[@chazlewis8114]

@@Kenionatus My income is very inconsistent on a month to month basis. But over the last 6 months there was about 32k in total steam revenue. And that ends up being closer to 20k after fees and taxes. So it's not a lot, but its enough to get by. :)

[@adamkallin5160]

Can you link your Steam games page?

[@Malisteen]

'Inadvertently we created a game thst sells itself well' - I'm reminded of the success of Fez. Many people got annoyed that Fez sold better and got more recognition than games from other indie devs who they thought were more established, and imagined conspiracies of unfair backroom deals or whatever, but the real key to Fez's succes, beyond just the very high level of polish, was that the core mechanic that made it unique and interesting could be fully conveyed by a two second gif posted to twitter or facebook. You see that perspective turn once and you instantly get the idea. Much like with mini-metro's subway map you instantly understand the concept, where the line game just looks like a line. The idea doesn't really come across until you're actually playing it, which means it can only sell itself to people who have already purchased it.

[@smokeyoak]

I was a QA tester for a couple of years and I got to test Fez for the Xbox marketplace. It was my favorite game to test. I had all the game design documents and technical documents, it had a translation for the in game language. I went through the game and translated all of the dialogue and signage by hand and submitted a few bugs where the spelling or grammar was off. It was way more fun to test than this Temple Run clone they had me on before.

[@itsaUSBline]

Shame about the dev acting like a baby because some people disagreed with him online and canceling the sequel.

[@YeahCain2]

Which is the very definition of a game Too many games are just cinematic movies which the player loosely interacts with One trailer of Any new game and boom i feel like i played it I'm sure what that's why that cat game did so well

[@Malisteen]

@@itsaUSBline That's a really disingenuous framing of what happened. Phil Phish maybe wasn't the most politic guy, but there was an outright industry built up of publically harassing the guy. I couldn't have put up with that either. And the only option he had to escape it was to abandon his career and entire online life.

[@snintendog]

Uh about those back room deals... yeah they turned out to be true Phish was sued the frick over them and lost the case. Its why he went effing mental and said no fez 2.

[@MrFalliorsGaming]

I know a game that's underperforming that has Overwhelmingly Positive reviews that I have had a ton of fun on. It's called "The Coin Game". It contains many games you'd find at arcades such as claw machine's, coin pushers, ball drops, table hockey, key masters, pinball and even minigolf. Game was made by 1 developer so updates are slower to come out, but still really fun to play. I've played it on my channel a few times myself as well.

[@hankman236]

Funny to see you here. I've watched you play that game before. I haven't played it myself but it definitely looked pretty fun from your videos

[@Xenji5]

What’s the game?

[@MrFalliorsGaming]

@@Xenji5 The Coin Game

[@ashkesslet1149]

Love that game

[@Justin-ee1mv]

I don’t consider The coin game in the niche category, It has people playing especially when updates drop, Big streamers also check the game out every once in a while, So that has already bigger than most game coverage which is none for many

[@Evanz111]

I got sent a review key for a £8-ish game on Steam which had overwhelmingly positive reviews. It was the most basic crude equivalent of a flash game where you press the Q and E keys to alternate chopping down a tree. That was it. I couldn’t work it out, how that had a better review score than some of the most criminally underrated games. It bugged me so much I made a video ranting about it. I’ve been curious about the reviewing culture on Steam ever since, so it’s like this video was made for me.

[@Evanz111]

I just checked and the game is cheaper now, but the splash page on its store is “30,000,000 players can’t be wrong” - thankfully it’s being reviewed more critically but I can’t help but feel like that score was so unwarranted and people bought it solely because of the score and not because it was a decent desirable game.

[@potatojeans6966]

That "P($ | gg) = good" at the end is a great touch for any probability enthusiasts

[@axelprino]

I happen to have played Mini Metro back when it still was on early access, and I remember that the word of mouth online was extremely positive even that early. There was also a significant amount of keys sent to youtubers and streamers, I got mine because a small youtuber gifted it to me on some random chat room I used to frequent back then, he gave me one because the devs sent him like five keys. So the marketing campaign was definitely a substantial part of why people on Steam were playing the game. On the other hand is the first time I've ever heard about Line Light, and I like minimalist puzzle games.

[@AscensionismOnOsu]

I think there's one problem to steam that makes this graph form in the way that it does. Rating a game is based on a 50/50 system, Positive or Negative. There's no star rating system/numerical system where they can be more specific as to how good or how bad a game is, which causes a lot of those smaller games to be a false positive for the 5%. Even though they are positively rated, they aren't 10/10 per se or 5% worthy (like what you said when you mentioned that they felt below 10%). Edit: I'm mentioning this as another point to add to the current points made in the video.

[@astrah982]

The same could be said of KZbin. The 5 star rating system was far better than this thumbs up thumbs down stuff.

[@super12rider]

the negative/positive rating is based off how machine learning algorithms succeed. They are really good at handling binary yes/no variables in bulk to make correlations between different people and what similar people would like. Its not supposed to be user friendly but instead machine learning friendly. It works the same as youtube, netflix, facebook, (another manipulative company), etc.

[@furion179]

binary rating system actually helps me to have cleare vision on what that rating number even meaning. I know if I would like game genre how likely I would like the game after purchase. 5 start rating maybe can help find good games ?!? but I prefer finding game by tags then look at ratings and review's. 5 star rating don't tell you what percentage of buyers liked what they got. and reviews can help you know exactly what people feel about it with more details than any rating system can achieve.

[@Justin-ee1mv]

Well 10/10 are all based on how someone enjoys the game, Many people have perfect score for games that others would look past from, So for some games there are also variables on whether or not the game has been played by other creators to the fan in word of mouth and for some who finds the game naturally though steam or though other sources may just find the genre and game they are looking for even if for you it’s not the genre you play at all or have even seen

[@jacobb5484]

I've played several you listed as good but not great, and most have some level of hidden depth that makes them special to those who invest the time into them while appearing generic at a glance. House: A horror game with a time loop that feels rewarding to go through. There are numerous interconnected puzzles and each time you restart the cycle you get closer to finding the true end. Aside from the frogs it's something that is a challenging puzzle yet feels achievable without a walkthrough. Wilmot's Warehouse: originally free through Humble Bundle, so that put a big damper on sales. While at it's core it's a simple organization puzzle, it is relaxing and satisfying with a very carefully designed difficulty curve, as you need to manage more items you are slowly unlocking upgrades and developing the skills needed to succeed. By the end you'll feel like a master. Spirits Abyss: An absolutely massive roguelike with tons of hidden content and unlockable including a card game minigame. If you like hunting for secrets and are looking for something like Spelunky you will enjoy this as well as Noita. Recused: A puzzle game that takes full advantage of it's core recursive mechanic. There's only a handful of basic rules, but you're naturally figuring out their nuances and intricacies creating insanely complicated puzzles by the end. It also came out 3 years before Baba is you which has similar puzzle logic.

[@saitorimember8159]

Saboteur - one of the most underrated games ever. It is like GTA but in Paris during German occupation in WWII. Huge map, beautiful buildings and lot of fun!

[@void-highlighter]

Wilmot's warehouse is awsome!!!! I liked seeing it

[@Wourghk]

Re: Mini Metro vs Linelight. Though similar in appearance, the design philosophy is completely different between the two. Anyone who played OpenTTD / Transport Fever - or any transportation network management game - at least took a look at it if for no other reason than the subject implied by the name: "Metro". Most probably stuck with it since it's a casual non-linear take on the genre, which is novel. Former attempts at casual transport games by other developers were overt puzzle games with prescribed solutions, which the managerial audience strongly rejects because they're a group that thrives on discovering creative solutions for compounding simple problems. By stark contrast, Linelight is a puzzle game through and through. It unfortunately looks like an abstract, pretentious "game for the sake of game design" exercise, but yet has no underlying narrative like its predecessors (Flow and Thomas Was Alone). There's no story, it doesn't have a strong soundtrack, nor does it have a mascot or recognizable icon. It's flat, completely absent any appeal outside of its simplicity. In my opinion, it's amazing it performed as well as it did, and that may have been entirely due to marketing efforts.

[@haiperbus]

Touhou (the bullet hell anime game) makes sense being so low yet rated so high because they've been popular for over 20 years but only recently have been put on steam. before this fans had no choice but to pirate. so it makes sense that the ones who did bother getting them on steam did so out of principal for loving the series so much

[@Zackwebs]

Similar situation with Higurashi I'd think, I don't know if Steam can show an "official" release date and a Steam release date, but that might clear up a couple of the games rated very high but without many sales/reviews.

[@PrScandium]

Don't mind me, I'm just paying a visit to the based department

[@miceatah9359]

Because its super niche almost nobody plays them

[@TheVideoMakerTS]

Also a lot of people dislike bullet hell and anime games, so having both at the same time will obviously imply a niche audience.

[@milkjug4237]

@@miceatah9359 lmao touhou is one of the most successful franchises

[@LizardOfOz]

I believe the reason why niche games are "highly rated hidden gems" is because a single person or a small team can do only so much, therefore they look for untapped niches where the demand is lower, therefore people will accept and positively rate games which aren't of great quality. How many teams of 3 semi-professionals can make a metroidvania (a genre appealing to the general Steam audience) that will stand a comparison against Ori or Hollow Knight, while also having an unrelated full-time job? For many aspiring developers _this_ is the conditions they have to create _something_ under. In other words, the quality bar is too high for most aspiring devs to meet. Stardew Valley took 5 years of crunch to make, and its main creator relied on his wife's income to live. For many, that's just not an option. Nothing against Visual Novels or people loving them, but this genre is relatively cheap to make, while also being a niche. Also, it's a genre a competent artist can develop in without requiring much programming skill, which shapes the limitations a game of this genre would have.

[@TheYeetedMeat]

Wasn’t hollow knight made by like 2 people though?

[@qiang2884]

Many Visual Novel titles are releasing to steam because it's basically free money for them, when their fanbase and normal sales are Japan only. They used to only sell on Japanese only sites like DLSite, or physical copies, until steam got rid of greenlight and opened for everyone, so now on top of their original sales they are simply getting this extra money from steam. Those VN games are also made by moderate teams, sometimes 10-20x people. I remember one title(which I think is from 10 years ago) even hired China's national orchestra to play their original music, that's seriously very impressive. I don't play VN games though, I'd rather just read a fucking book and/or masturbate to porn.

[@captaineflowchapka5535]

@@TheYeetedMeat no team cherry was a bit bigger like 15-20 and grew over time

[@RhizometricReality]

Check out Neon Tail

[@dragons1rule31]

@@captaineflowchapka5535 The Team Cherry and Hollow Knight websites describe them as a team of three people. When did they get bigger?

[@gargitron3008]

How do we find an underrated channel? Well, go to this one. It’s underrated af.

[@cablefeed3738]

This feels like the starting point for your KZbin channel I'm definitely subscribing unfortunately there aren't more videos for me to watch.

[@globglob3d]

15:00 I think the replay-ability and non-linear/rogue-like progression of Mini Metro (and Mini Motorway) makes these games more appealing and unique than Linelight which seems to have more of a "beat this level to progress to the next one" which is so common and boring. I haven't played Mini Metro or Linelight though, only Mini Motorway which surprised be with it's depth.

[@Relyksboa]

Did either of those games make you feel like batman?

[@cuddlecakes7153]

8:12 House was super good. Very grotesque and open to interpretation, with some very "big brain" puzzle solving needed, but doesn't have a lot of content. I'm surprised you didn't like it.

[@NickCastonNZ]

That's fair. I wasn't quite sure how to place House, maybe I was a little harsh on it. I did enjoy it well enough although found it a little tedious at times... perhaps I should have been a bit more patient (I was trying to get through a lot of games and give them a fair go, but maybe I was still a bit too rushed)

[@cuddlecakes7153]

@@NickCastonNZ Yeah I feel you! The amount of work in this video was crazy!!

[@nintySW]

was looking for this comment lol

[@1978Thetallman]

I’d like to give a shout-out to Astalon: tears of the earth. This Awkwardly titled metroidvania is far from perfect, but its oldschool castlevania-Esque gameplay and punishing difficulty made it a lot of fun. The exploration is great too. Solid 8/10 game even in such a competitive genre

[@asthasr2]

Yeah, I was surprised to see this in the 'underperforming' category. It was a very capable and well-polished game.

[@madspunky]

It's so good!! For me a 9/10

[@e.b.03]

this is why I love to lurk the new and upcoming games, you find a lot of cool things that before they fall off the table

[@sephirothchild]

Actually my takeaway was the more freedom in a great game, the better it sells. Allowing players freedom and not "on-rails" is the key to passion. Passion is contagious even if you don't even like a game. "I don't even play X game but, your PASSION for it is interesting to watch."

[@weakamna]

I think for marketing, a small edge could account for a larger gap in exposure, given that if you get even say 10 more "Superfans" which evangelize your game, that converts to 100s or even 1000s of people going "hmm, that sounds interesting, I'll try it", which itself converts to 1000s to 10000 more "impressions".

[@astrah982]

That's exactly right. It seems to me it's all about those initial superfans that push it. It's disappointing that many creators then get very popular through those 10 people, but then often they drop off from their posse eventually and they forget about them later.

[@gamerguy4478]

It’s a shame Levelhead wasn’t mentioned, given it was on the list of games narrowed down to. That game’s great and never got it’s chance to shine.

[@PHeMoX]

Is it really though? It's pretty much just another slightly more difficult than usual platformer. It also has a marketing problem, being sold as a 'level maker' game. I understand the game's premise, but potential buyers will avoid what looks like a not free level editor for sale... Compared to other direct competition, it's probably not that good at all.

[@SanyaBane]

Do not forget that some games just does not exist in Steam for various reasons. "Sengoku Rance" - my all time favourite game, is not there.

[@abhinandkrishnakk7980]

TNice tutorials was so detailed! Great video for beginners. Thank you!

[@ExKalowbar]

Nowadays indie game feel worth more than many AAA games

[@probaskinnyman4960]

Idk why but this video feels amazing to watch simply because of the lack of background music and the constant commentary with beautiful simple edits.

[@Aminekbcovers]

I didn't really notice it before you mention it. But yeah it's actually a better watching experience. I feel KZbin videos often became "over-edited" with non fitting sloppy license-free music. Am i making sense?

[@probaskinnyman4960]

@@Aminekbcovers yes my friend. I feel the same way hence my post. Glad to hear more agreed on my sentiment😅

[@pip.turner]

Don't sleep on Wilmots Warehouse! It's such a wonderful spatial puzzle where you only have yourself to blame for your own downfall. It's beautifully crafted & deserves the "great" label!

[@OctoDog13]

It was also free on EGS, I tried it and had some fun. Will certainly return to it in some time.

[@clockhanded]

I liked it a lot when it was on Gamepass. I don't have the kind of mindset that would enjoy the game for more than a week, but I think many would. Especially anyone who enjoys speedrunning or finding patterns. The game doesn't really include those things, but it exercises similar thinking skills.

[@wobaguk]

I loved it, only felt the ending was a bit of an anticlimax, but I had a lot of fun along the way.

[@embreadiment]

I know this game too, I fell in love with it pretty fast

[@OatmealTheCrazy]

Glad someone else defended it. It's great

[@yumeir8148]

Something interesting to note about most anime games is that a lot of them will come to steam much much later after their initial release on japanese websites. I would guess that the low numbers sold would most likely come from people buying them on other platforms first instead of waiting the years it takes for the steam version to come out.

[@allNicksAlreadyTaken]

Wilmot's is a fucking BANGER. It fills a niche, it's well made and makes my game designer heart feel all warm and fuzzy. It's a great game. You can't just filter out *everything* until there is nothing left to disprove your point.

[@Not_Pulsus]

Such a great script! I could watch a 100 more videos in this style.

[@wermaus]

Was wondering if you could make this data public for Indies to analyse? I'm sure it could give some really interesting insights with the floodgates opened to anyone that's curious!

[@zeroyuki92]

+1 since I would also love to play around with those data

[@Wcduc]

I wanna know which game almost 100 000 000 $ at under 0.25 ratings! 3:39

[@gravymask]

please make the graph public. i want to see that one low rated game that made $100,000,000

[@tacklesmackle4690]

Agree on this. But imo it's a game that was made by a big corporation/company that broke the players' view. Like the game turned out to be very greedy or very bad ect... But still I wanna know what game was so bad but the player base kept on buying it

[@gravymask]

@@tacklesmackle4690 my guess is battlefield 2042

[@NickCastonNZ]

Yup! You nailed it. It was battlefield 2042

[@gravymask]

@@NickCastonNZ that’s really sad

[@anon_y_mousse]

I worry that too many game developers would look at it from a monetary only perspective. Yeah, it sucks if you can't make a lot of money, and yeah you need money to keep making games, but if you focus too much on the money the art will suffer. You need to strike a good balance between making something that appeals to enough others to allow you to keep making games while not losing your soul in the process.

[@rodrigorocha2935]

7:47 - Game number 28. ASTALON TEARS OF THE EARTH. That game is awesome! (And now everyone knows I’m a metroidvania fanatic)

[@mattd8725]

From the trailer, Linelight looks like some navel-gazing game about game development game. Look at us, we are so clever, we reduced a video game to its simplest form, and you can look at it and adore it!

[@CourtesyOfEndo]

This is great, I would love to see more videos with this type of breakdown

[@lucaswatson5845]

I can actually give a word in about one of the games shown in this video (Recursed) and say that it is one of the coolest puzzle games I've played, even though it looks deceptively simple. Other than the superficial connection that its mechanics are largely analogous to many concepts in computer science (stacks, global variables, contexts, and pointers, among other things), it's exceptionally intricate (and difficult), with many of the later puzzles making me feel like I've expanded my brain to solve them. It's even managed to have a professional research paper published about its mechanical complexity. It's *definitely* niche, though. I only learned about the game through a personal recommendation, and I wouldn't be surprised if that's how most people who played it found out about it. I don't have too much to say on the subject of the video itself, but I did want to take this opportunity to attest to one game's quality.

[@crimson406]

As soon as he said that, I loaded all of the comments on this video and did a Ctrl+F for "Recursed" and you're the only one. :/ Recursed is and always will be one of my favorite games of all time.

[@alasjoy7849]

It's a super great game and I'm glad someone recommended it to you!

[@John-uh1pb]

Recursed really needs some love + polish on its art I think. The first glance impact isn’t great.

[@Squidmoto3]

100% agree with your notes at the end. A great game basically markets itself. I have done a ton of research on this stuff aswell and the only example I could find of a really good game failing was Atlas Reactor, which was basically a multiplayer XCOM style game where you could pick and customize your character and abilities. Pretty much everything about that game was polished and solid, but multiplayer always has a bigger risk, because losing players means longer queue times, which means losing more players. On the r/gamedev subreddit I always see people talk about "we should have done X to sell better" but when looking into their games it's always really obvious why their games failed. If you have a good Steam page and a good game, your game is way more likely to do good than bad - and that's with no prior fan base. Me and my friend have only released 1 game so far (which did kinda bad, I think made around $2000 after everything), but our next one is looking a lot better and also is in a popular genre so hoping to at least make enough to keep going full-time at this for the immediate future. Also, do you have a Discord or something where people can show you their games and see what you think?

[@NickCastonNZ]

Thanks for the feedback and for sharing your thoughts! I hadn't heard of Atlas Reactor but I'm going to look into it now. I don't have a discord but it's one of those things that is forever in a state of "I should probably do that"... Good luck with your game dev! It sounds like you're making good progress and thinking critically about your approach. I look forward to seeing what you make.

[@DPortain]

Coincidentally, Wilmot's Warehouse and Demon Tilt (both in your list) are quite excellent. Wilmot's Warehouse has great progression and makes you feel like a genius. And Demon's Tilt is the most complex arcade pinball in years.

[@jacobb5484]

I've played several you listed as good but not great, and most have some level of hidden depth that makes them special to those who invest the time into them while appearing generic at a glance. House: A horror game with a time loop that feels rewarding to go through. There are numerous interconnected puzzles and each time you restart the cycle you get closer to finding the true end. Aside from the frogs it's something that is a challenging puzzle yet feels achievable without a walkthrough. Wilmot's Warehouse: originally free through Humble Bundle, so that put a big damper on sales. While at it's core it's a simple organization puzzle, it is relaxing and satisfying with a very carefully designed difficulty curve, as you need to manage more items you are slowly unlocking upgrades and developing the skills needed to succeed. By the end you'll feel like a master. Spirits Abyss: An absolutely massive roguelike with tons of hidden content and unlockable including a card game minigame. If you like hunting for secrets and are looking for something like Spelunky you will enjoy this as well as Noita. Recused: A puzzle game that takes full advantage of it's core recursive mechanic. There's only a handful of basic rules, but you're naturally figuring out their nuances and intricacies creating insanely complicated puzzles by the end. It also came out 3 years before Baba is you which has similar puzzle logic.

[@dahat1992]

This is surprisingly in depth, while still being intuitive and very easy to understand. Definitely subscribing.

[@LightVelox]

This video actually gave me a lot of motivation, I wanted to make a Immersive RPG, but was afraid even if it was good it wouldn't get more than 2000, but considering good games here are making over 20k and still are considered to be performing badly i think i might have a chance

[@LD-Orbs]

Go for it!

[@sgtpepper91]

If you're an amateur looking to put out an artistic product and finance is your primary motivation - you've already failed.

[@user-yl7kl7sl1g]

He also didn't count any games with less than a certain number of reviews. This means, if a good game gets enough players it will get big. However he could have also missed tons of great games that never got discovered.

[@denami8993]

I think it is also important to note that while Linelight is a puzzle game, Mini Metro is a 'problem solving game'. Game type must play into sales numbers, and Mini Metro's potentially unlimited play time is also another reason on why it has more players at any time (other than the obvious cause of it selling 10x more).

[@astrah982]

Also Timing: 2014 Market Saturation: Low on Steam Market Trends (for that particular time): iOS and 'sleek' small games were popular at the time.

[@noiJadisCailleach]

TLDW; Make your game accessible in one form or another before official release. Thanks for doing the research work!

[@JohnSmith-ox3gy]

I have been looking for an investigation like this for years. And it happens to have a really great production quality to boot.

[@lisapalmer8683]

6:10 the games themselves on steam dont get many sales and stuff, but trust me touhou is EXTREMELY popular, and ZUN (the sole creator) is most likely VERY well off because of it. Also, the games are super good go play it.

[@Natibe_]

Yeah, he kinda tailor made a category for anime games here and then completely disregarded it, I mean I get it lmao but maybe next time he needs to hire a weeb and a dad to play those game types

[@threesoftrees]

I see you showed a touhou game under anime games. Those at least sell very well but outside of steam mostly through physical sales, so one thing to account for is that certain games just do not have steam or digital marketplaces in general as their primary platform of distribution.

[@DLBBALL]

There are probably lots of reasons why the Steam versions of the official Touhou games aren't exactly big sellers. Here are some of my ideas: 1) The games are often (to this day) pirated by folks, for many possible reasons. Like someone could be from a developing country, where people have less money to spend on games. Or their PC might not even have an optical disc drive, making physical game copies useless. Or they decide to pirate it since they can't find the game on a common/favourite online video game vendor (like Steam). Or maybe even they don't think it's worth paying for the games at all and would rather they be free to play... 2) Official Touhou games have only started being released on Steam for 2-3 years now I think (correct me if I'm wrong), and lots of the games still have yet to receive an official Steam release. Lots of the official Touhou games are being released on Steam long, long after their original release (ex. Touhou 10 -Mountain of Faith originally released in 2007/8 I think) so it'd also make sense that they wouldn't be selling as much as they did back when the game was newer. 3) People who can't read Japanese have to manually patch the games to use fan localizations so they'd understand the game's text/dialogue, making the official games a bit more inaccessible to non-Japanese readers. 4) Lots of Touhou fans are fans of the series because of the wealth of fan content and not the official games, so only a smaller portion of Touhou's fan base actually goes ahead and plays the official games to begin with... Sorry if this was a long read.

[@rankaisija_8837]

Difficulty is probably also a factor

[@songhill6962]

physical copies to digital copies sold ratio is only higher in japan (7:3) and looking at touhou's origin it's not surprising

[@jeffe2267]

His takeaway was specifically "not enough weebs on steam". He understood that the sales were a result of the game just not doing as well on Steam, you don't have to stand up for Touhou lol

[@threesoftrees]

@@jeffe2267 I just wanted to use Touhou to illustrate a broader point, hope that’s cleared up now.

[@boberboberowski3411]

8:10 House is, at least for me the indie game of 2020, although sometimes unfair, it was a very fun and unique experience

[@zerglinglover2303]

RimWorld. Made by a single dev, it's a really small but absolutely incredible game. In 7 or so months I've dumped 5k hours into it.

[@bruhder5854]

Well Tynan Sylvester only really worked on it as a solo dev during the early access period. Iirc about an year before the full release he hired a team of 5 people who've been working with him since then.

[@zerglinglover2303]

@@bruhder5854 didn't know that, thanks.

[@Draygarth]

In conclusion, niche games have high reviews and low sales. My question is what was the game up by 100 million but had less than 25% satisfaction? It's a dot all by itself in the top left of your graph.🤣

[@LightningbrotherG]

Probably something like No Man's Sky

[@koovr]

Battlefield 2042

[@redpandersbear2878]

As someone that is super super super green and wanting to get into game development, seeing this video is reassuring in some ways since there is at least some correlation between quality and revenue, especially around the medians for your more common genra's. Definitely motivating for someone that wants to put in some work to become competent at game design. While you can view this graph as proof that even quality games don't always perform well, seeing the upward trend for your average game is more inspirational than anything.

[@VechsDavion]

Okay, so I just need to make a simple, approachable game that immediately sells itself where people can share their creations and feel a sense of ownership... Just need to brainstorm... Mini Metro is just two words, so keeping it short and simple sounds good. Castle Builder? City Builder? Mini City? Castle Craft? War City? War Craft? ... MIne... Craft? Huh.

[@astrah982]

Also export a demo to HTML5 and upload to a website where you immediately play it. But better yet just have a good trailer.

[@allesarfint]

The moment you showed Mini Metro and linelight side to side I realized it wasn't easy to understand what linelight was about, while Mini Metro was pretty clear from the start.

[@RUKALION]

defines a genre , defines an era , defines a generation

[@InfiniteCheeseCrates]

I haven't even watched the video yet, but I've spent weeks just browsing the market both on steam and on switch, looking at game review sites and videos such as this, trying games when I thought I had found something decent only to return it 30mins later due to a lack of polish or bad choices. From what I've found, the main issue is; The market at the moment is just too saturated with indie titles, many of which are just simple low-effort knock-offs, use a game engine like RPG maker or Ren'Py with default values, or are low effort asset flips. Finding ones that are actually decent is extremely difficult unless they've managed to gain internet popularity. Compounded by; A- Many Dev's are younger and/or haven't been exposed to games that are in the genre they are making a game in. They may have played or seen a title played, but they have no concept of why ___ game works and theirs doesn't. (See the plethora of Metroidvania's that play like garbage.) B- Many games are only play tested by family/friends instead of random testers. The few that do, get games play-tested by random people on social media sites, where it's often taboo to be critical towards a game and/or their posts can be removed. C- Dev's releasing a half baked idea to Early Access, only for them to change the central gameplay loop(which was good) because they wanted to satisfy people leaving negative reviews. I feel like Indie Dev's are stuck in "Safe and Mediocre" mindset because of this, which is why there's such a plethora of Metroidvania's, Rogue-likes and Anime Visual Novels, but none of them want to put any effort behind them so they're forever stuck in a loop of mediocrity.

[@astrah982]

Game jam culture has NOT helped the gaming market in my opinion, it's almost at the heart of the problem. There are so many 'game jammer' types that I've meant, in where they could have created the next Final Fantasy and yet they're stuck creating Bubble Shooter 3000. They're aiming for mediocrity on purpose not realizing their own talent.

[@ITSTAKING]

@@astrah982 I blame mobile games as what started the whole "your game can have mediocre single-finger gameplay, need the least amount of interaction and have poor production value but still sell millions anyway because most people wouldn't know any better" doctrine and thought process.

[@Justin-ee1mv]

I mean some of those games do hit the spot for the folks seeking that niche genre, Even though they won’t see massive amounts, They still created something than it has a small fan based around it

[@Trademarkk]

"Return of the Obra Dimn" for me is the best example of a decent indie game that didn't received that much attention from the internet

[@astrah982]

@@ITSTAKING That's a really good point, mobile games for sure...I don't see why I didn't see that before, but I remember a game on the Nintendo Switch for 10 bucks in where you were a square jumping around sidescrolling fighting circles.

[@christopheauguste1532]

i would be curious to see where the "creeper world" games would be in these list... maybe it perfomed well or is not consider good enough, but for me it's really some hidden gems and they have the same kind of demo dirrectly in browser like mini metro have. wilmot's warehouse is a great game too! i wonder how much being a free game on epic could have hurt the metric or not for it

[@sebastianalburquenque4404]

Amazing games indeed, it feels almost relaxing to play and yet can be very challenging, its disign is simple and very appealing.

[@oflatt]

Great analysis and commentary! It was actually encouraging to see the practical reasons why games don't do as well sometimes.

[@thingies4U]

@Nick Caston : You neglected to compare WHEN sales occurred in your comparison of "Mini Metro" to "LineLight". I instantly recognize Mini Metro because it's been featured all over Apple's App Store for years, and the screenshots remind me of subway maps. Apple even promotes the sequel "Mini Motorways" which is part of Apple Arcade's offerings. All this recognizability surely helped sales for players who preferred to play it on PC with a bigger screen (for some, they probably even already own it on an iOS device and liked it enough to buy it again on Steam). So again, it's marketing/exposure.

[@maikkeli]

"The best is in the far right." -Nick Caston Great video keep at the good work!

[@RedPandaTables]

Games under $4 are ignored? RIP Vampire Survivor which is only $3 and insanely fun for the price. I think most devs forget the "for the price" bit. Pricing often make or break if I will even buy a game or not. Using Fight Knight as an example given the dev post here, I'm not a fan of DOOM so right away my interest in that game is low. Now factor in the fact it is $20 normally or even the current sale price of $14. I have to ask myself "does this game look like it is worth more than Terraria" which at full price is cheaper than the sale price of Fight Knight. I get devs are trying to break even on their time and effort but they need to understand they are gatekeeping their own game when the pricing can act like a barrier. If you going to have a sale then let that sale make it feel like the player is literally losing out on something great unless they buy it at that very moment. Even if you might lose some money on it at least you would get the sale price AND more importantly word of mouth. Sales should be the time you get everyone who is still on the fence about it. The game look interesting and the reviews seem to be loving it but personally for the price I can buy like 2-3 hidden gems. As sad as it may be on Steam you are competing for a chance at the player's steam wallet which isn't infinite. That money gotta come from somewhere. Alternately Factorio have the right idea of making the price exactly how they feel the game is worth and never have a sale ever on it. On Steam the logic of buying a game at full price is stupid as there is always a sale around a corner otherwise. If you ever put a game on a half-assed sale you basically saying that is your game new price anyway. You always know when a $60 Bandai game is dead when it go on sale for like $5 for example, they just getting leftovers players as they just be extras anyway. The $60 was for the multiplayer while it existed, the $5 is how they feel the game is truly worth. So you gotta pick your poison of having the game true price only exist during a sale or never have a sale at all. Though kinda an issue with Steam as a platform but nevertheless something a dev need to keep in mind.

[@mdd4296]

Most $5- game isnt Vampire Survivor level of quality or successes. The observation in this video is pretty much in line with what I read from another data source, which is hard facts and aggregate, not observational and anecdotal. So empirical wise pricing it there doesnt mean you can gain anymore than you lose out per unit. The steam audience have some particularity in their habit unlike let's say grocery shopper. Also from the same data source, Factoria's genre sell immensely better on steam than Fight Knight's genre (which isnt even a doom shooter btw. It's more megaman battle network in first person). Regardeless of product features, pricing strategy or marketing reaches. So factoria would outsell fight knight 99% of the time despite priced at 50% more. There's also the niche strategy and the particularity of the genre. Devs know that the game is made to cater to a very specific audience, which arent that many in the first place. Devs know that the game look ugly on purpose. Dev know that the game have simple loop he dont want to extend forever. So rather bet on his niche to pay a fair price than betting on luck. So yeah, in hindsight, maybe he could gain more either financially or fame with a lower price. But NOTHING at that time prove that is widely applicable. And even now, it still isnt with vampire survivor and 20 minutes till dawn the only current posterboy of their own strategy. Also regional pricing wise the game is pretty fair imo. It cost $6 in India, $10 in China, $7 in Russia but somehow little bit cheaper in EU than US.

[@Blurscope]

As a fellow dev, I really appreciated this video. It's nice to see some of the genre popularity preferences that people innately "feel" quantified with some actual data. And it's definitely uplifting to see if a game is good enough, it's very likely to rise to the top with the right genre and polish. Great video!

[@legoyoda256]

holy shit its Ana from overwatch!!

[@noob_jr_2sjrkc]

The games market is quite saturated and it seems impossibly hard to stand out as an indie dev at this point. For each knockout hit like Hollow Knight there's what seems like hundreds of solid titles that barely get any recognition. I recently played Dodgeball Academia and Kaze And The Wild Masks, which are both very enjoyable in their genres and hardly get talked about. Mario Maker has a superior indie cousin in Levelhead and nobody seems to know or care about it.

[@blockgunk]

I love Butterscotch Shenanigans' games! My favorite is crashlands.

[@PureKnickers]

@@blockgunk BUTTTER-SCOTCH SHENANNIGAAANS!

[@PureKnickers]

As a fellow LevelHead fan, I'd love to know why LH got scratched from the shortlist.

[@noob_jr_2sjrkc]

@@Dave-rd6sp Which is strange to me because keyboard & mouse is so much better for building...

[@embreadiment]

LEVELHEAD RECOGNITION ‼️

[@WhiteNorthStar1]

Superb and tremendously useful analysis... admiration! :)

[@desktorp]

One of the reasons I steered away from video games is because there are simply too many. The majority of games are absolute crap, but even when you remove those from the choices, there are still more games available to play than any sane person could play in a lifetime. The real reasons I stopped playing video games is more detailed than that, but that was definitely one of the factors. An overwhelming glut of choices can be a bad thing.

[@MrAnca]

You legit lost me when you removed visual novels, there're some amazing vn's out there with some of the most complex stories ever told in the media. This could've been a good opportunity to at least get more people interested in that genre.

[@EnbyeonTTV]

I wonder how much localization plays a part if you filter for games that have Chinese or Russian as supported languages. There was a period of time where "the big indie advice" was to make sure you cover those two when releasing your game.

[@qiang2884]

Simply having Chinese doesn't really do much, plus the Chinese fanbase frequently bombard reviews for any political reason. I've never seen any Russian buy game unless it has hardcore gunplay or anime, plus we are in war time so Russians can't buy anything even if they want to.

[@kirillzel]

@@qiang2884 russian here, well I try to buy every game I like, so I have over 1000 games in my steam library. My friends do the same - they usually buy games they likes even if they are short on money. Yes, probably russian pirating more than others, but that does not mean that it's what most people does And yes we can buy games, it's just harder now

[@ericconnor8419]

@@qiang2884 Exactly. Marketing to authoritarian dictatorships is great until you (or somebody from your country) says or does something they object to. Then you have 500 wumao wrecking your review scores.

[@chrono269]

Russian here. While i am not one of them, a lot of russians follow the "No russian no buy" ruleand for many its the deciding factor, cuz language educatiion here rather poor, nor is it encouraged cuz, well, politics

[@kirillzel]

@@chrono269 well it's good that we still have mandatory english classes in scool, even though they are pretty much very bad. But well, after 11 years of listening to "I am apple", "I slept well until ***" etc - you probably will learn something. But yes, most of my skill comes from games, but school teached me some common words and basic grammar so it still was not learning from the scratch

[@minichou]

I wish point and click adventure games got more love, they're definitely a golden apple in a basket of regular apples. I love the Blackwell series and Wadjet eye games continue to create amazing games. I do like how Telltale games paved the way for story decision based games to get popular, but there still needs to be more of a push. I know it was a joke but it still hurt a little, the statement- " games aren't books", I feel like that's the driving force for why these games are so shadowed in the gaming community.

[@jjb273]

amen man

[@Justin-ee1mv]

No worries, Each genre will always have its fan base and people who enjoy niche games or intriguing genres and themes will usually seek out games that are within their genre of choice