Are heavier speakers better?

It's sometimes known as audio by the pound: a measurement of audio quality by its weight. Does this apply to speakers as well as electronics and if so, why? Have a question you want to ask Paul? www.psaudio.com...
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[@stevefick3919]

That's like that line from Jurassic Park, " Are they heavy?....Yes! Then they're expensive, put them back!"

[@mornecoetzee735]

🤣🤣🤣"Spared no expense!"

[@thegrimyeaper]

My favorite thing is to pretend I'm Paul and say the title of the video out loud before pressing play.

[@avsystem3142]

In the 1960's my father owned a pair of Wharfdale speakers (don't remember the model). Each of the two stereo speakers had six drivers, two 12" subs, two 8" mids and two tweeters. The cabinets were constructed of a double wall of 3/4" plywood with a space between walls filled with dry sand. Heavy is an understatement. I eventually ended up donating them to the local children's theater for auditorium filling sound.

[@InsideOfMyOwnMind]

Woah, that was heavy, man. Ok, the rules that everyone works with when designing speakers have been with us for many decades. The differences in speakers is in the combinations of these rules and the extent to which each one are employed. The infinate possibilities are what keeps the art alive.

[@leonarddaneman810]

When I was an audio/video salesman, one of my demonstrations was to have the customer pick up the product. TV . . . stereo . . . heavy meant bigger parts and power supplies. Hitachi used to win the weigh competition a lot . . . of course, Carver and NAD figured out how to be more effective/efficient.

[@paikiah77]

Thanks for answering my question, Paul!

[@catified2081]

High-end audio = Heavy

[@itamarkas]

Thanks for sharing. The French manufacturer Elipson used to make a lot of sphrical speakers, gorgeous art!

[@eelcosterringa1374]

Cabasse (also from France) even better ones ...

[@parrisgeorge9708]

Thanks for another good video. I REALLY like how you give full credit to people you've worked with and others in the industry. Good on you!

[@BrentLeVasseur]

I’m a noob when it comes to this audiophile hobby. But I love physics and strictly speaking from a physics perspective, the two best solutions for a speaker cabinet are 1) to get rid of the cabinet completely - e.g. open back speakers that emit in a dipole fashion (because the sideways waves will cancel themselves out)...OR 2) create a spherical or egg shaped speaker box that won’t create any standing waves (however in that case you have to deal with vibration of the cabinet itself so that adds levels of complexity to the design.) I recently came across these Egg shaped studio monitors that from a nerdy/physics perspective and from an aesthetics design perspective are pretty cool. They are the Munro SE Egg studio monitors. And to put my money where my mouth is, I recently purchased a pair of open back speakers - the Spacial Audio Sapphire M3s. They are a genius design in my opinion both from a physics perspective and from an aesthetic design perspective as it marries the two perfectly. They have a beautiful, museum quality bauhaus contemporary design that are both elegant and sound amazing. Who wants to have to re-create stone henge in your living room to get great sound? I sure don’t!!

[@blackbearaudiophile9595]

You are the science guy of sound! Love it! Thank you!

[@kaedeschulz5422]

Also heavy speaker's do not move around so much from bass because of the force from the cone.

[@kaedeschulz5422]

@My Name What i mean is the Force what the speaker is creating from Moving. Depends on the speaker and enclosure of course.

[@andershammer9307]

I love my old Spica SC-50 speaker with the round back. They are made from a cylinder but with a flat front baffle and a flat top. Not the best but very good for a smallish speaker. With French Audax 6.5 inch woofer and dome tweeter. They had thin foam around the speaker but it rotted. I'd like to find some replacement foam and upgrade the crossover.

[@jordanlewis3790]

Do you think a spherical speaker within a rectangle would be a good idea?

[@liquidamber]

thanks Paul ....you make it easy .but... make my mind thinking for more inspiration....love it...super thanks you help me a lot

[@robertnichols1124]

The round speaker, among other shapes, was suggested in an enclosure study by Harry Olson in 1951. This was presented to the Audio Engineering Society. The PS Audio project certainly looks interesting!

[@cp070476]

The heavier a speaker is normally means better quality drive units. Big motor structures weigh.. Top subs weigh a ton due to huge magnets.. My speakers are 57kg each and my sub is 63kg.. They don't get moved around much.😂

[@jeppepedersen7006]

cp070476 What speakers do you have?

[@cp070476]

@@jeppepedersen7006 ATC SCM 100's

[@jeppepedersen7006]

cp070476 Those are some cool speakers i like the midrange it remindes me of my Dali 7a

[@cp070476]

@@jeppepedersen7006 Yes they are very nice sounding speakers. Voices/vocals are especially good.

[@carlosoliveira-rc2xt]

To some degree, yes. But as a general rule the biggest difference in weight will be from the cabinet construction/materials. Also if the speaker has a self powered woofer(s), then the associated electronics will obviously add weight. Often I see two similarly sized speakers with same number of drivers and a large weight difference. I would avoid the light speaker. It is bound to have audible resonances somewhere in the response.

[@finscreenname]

The Emit died? Get a new $25 ribbon on eBay and save a fortune... If the round speakers were ugly but was a better sound why not build a round box inside of a light square exterior box?

[@juliaset751]

I remember seeing a cut away B&W matrix 801 at my HiFi shop years ago and was amazed at the bracing. I wonder though, if weight is added in some things just to make them appear to be substantial. The remote for my Primaluna amp weighs ¾ pound, that’s just silly and actually makes it less useful because it’s too heavy.

[@carlosoliveira-rc2xt]

The matrix in the 805 was much better than the 801. B&W had a speaker called the Matrix 1 that was seriously matrixed with the foam inserts but reviewers found them dead and uninvolving.

[@juliaset751]

@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt I would love to see B&W build the enclosures and KEF build the drivers on some speakers. The newer KEF's look a lot like matrix enclosures though.

[@ryacus]

I had the same theory, heavy wood cabinets with subpar drivers in them.

[@r423fplip]

Harbeth , Graham audio and spendor make great sounding light weight speakers. Beautifully made in the UK.

[@carlosoliveira-rc2xt]

Harbeth 30.2 are 26lbs. For a speaker about 18x12x12 and only 2 drivers, I would consider it average in weight for its class. Checking other models I found the same. They may seem light but they are rather small.

[@r423fplip]

@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt yes but the walls are very thin. They are designed that way . Heavy speakers sound nowhere near as good.

[@carlosoliveira-rc2xt]

@@r423fplip The weight comes from somewhere though. Bracing? At any rate the finest sounding speakers made have nonresonant dense enclosures and as a result have significant weight to them. Harbeth speakers even though still somewhat resonant are less so than in earlier years. There is more than one way to skin a cat and very few choose to work WITH the resonances In order to ameliorate the deleterious effects. Most at least include cabinet density among other things in the fight against them.

[@gryphongryph]

jeff lynne I am lucky to have my dream speaker, the Graham Audio LS 5/9, totally have fallen in love with the sound they make, timbre, clarity, the fantastic sound of piano or violins, wonderful speaker with jazz, but also very capable with blues and rock, could not be happier, have had 2 pair of speakers before, both using the thicker and heavier design philosophy and they sounded very nice too, but there is just something special about the Graham’s, they also work wonderfully on lower volume. They look like hand built speakers instead mass produced ones too, which is nice, just gorgeous. ;-)))

[@angusvanhalen2886]

I’m totally biased towards heavier gear, if I pick up something that’s lightweight, I put it right back down and keep searching for heft...be it massive power amp and or tiny headphone amp lol

[@Scottlp2]

Gotta agree. Though there are great bookshelf type speakers ($2-10k yikes) large floor standing speakers are better if you have the room. Same for class A (or A/B) for amps.

[@russredfern167]

Paul , what year did he do the round speakers? I built a pair using a 6" woofer and a few small horns on top. This was 1978. Yes the sound was impressive.

[@BryanTorok]

Well, you didn't address the weight of the driver structure and magnets. And, what material the magnets are made of.

[@dambuster6387]

Harbeth HL5 Speaker cabinet are made to absorb energy and they are heavy cabinet so it depends on the manufacture design and thought process in what he believes in. I have a pair of HL5 speakers and are very open transparent sound.

[@jeffreyepiscopo]

What about Harbeth? They make them extremely light so that the cabinet resonates in a good way.

[@jamesbaranowski8755]

Paul, when do you expect the Stellar line of speakers to be released and about what price point? May wait on new purchase to give yours a try. Thanks for the great info

[@LordVictorHalgaard]

He mentioned it in a recent longer "talks" video from a show. I don't know if its that specific model, but I believe the cheapest or maybe second cheapest model was estimated at 17.000$ ?

[@jamesbaranowski8755]

The Stellar line is going to be the more entry line, which will be more affordable. I did see that video and the top of line models look great but out of my range.

[@peterhaslund]

I believe Harbeth deploys a different strategy, thinking of their speakers more in terms of string instruments wherein the body "sings"

[@Synthematix]

MDF is actually better than real wood for speakers, its better to build with mdf then add wood veneer on top

[@carlosoliveira-rc2xt]

Yes, with exceptions. MDF is also much easier to work being more consistent and uniform. A veneer over the MDF doesn't hurt anything.

[@mrhatch117]

MDF is for cheap ass IKEA furniture. Hardwood plywood will out perform MDF all day long!!

[@avsystem3142]

@@mrhatch117Plywood may be more physically robust than MDF but MDF is definitely less resonant that plywood because of the fibrous nature of the core and therefore a potentially better choice for a speaker cabinet.

[@mrhatch117]

@@avsystem3142 don’t disagree with you. Stiffness of the enclosure definitely changes the sound/tone and resonate frequencies. I just don’t like MDF as you well know the pitfalls. IMO it is way over used due to the price. Just hate to see anyone spend a lot of money on “lifetime “ speakers that have an enclosure that will not last a lifetime. There are other methods to “tune” a hardwood cabinet

[@trog69]

The monitors on my desktop weigh close to 50lbs each, though they are massive for desktop speakers.

[@ryanschipp8513]

Love how Paul plugs...go heavy...go heavy...at the end(buy my speakers because they are HEAVY). SJ Park...allow me to save you thousands of dollars. 10k isn't needed to get a great sounding speaker. Suggestion #1...Canton A45...$3800 for the pair on Accessories4 less...Canton has been making speakers for almost 50 years, made in Germany, 85lbs each, triple 7" woofers, 7" mid, 1" ceramic tweeter...I own the Vento 890.2's WOW!! so sweet sounding...A45's are a steal at $3800. Suggestion #2...Polk Audio LSIM707...$1600 for the pair..got to look deep on the net to find that price but they are there...Polk...around since 1972...100lbs each...4 way..1" ring radiator, 3.25" mid, 6.5" mid, and dual 6x9 woofers. I own the bookshelves..........So sweet, punchy, dynamic.

[@ryanschipp8513]

@Larry Niles oh really? Where did you get a chance to hear them?

[@victrollarocknrolla8244]

Hi Paul,How did those round speakers sound ?

[@JEG6919]

Solid concrete is coming shortly to the industry. Now taking orders and you get to select your choice of colors. Acoustically sublime.

[@brianmoore581]

Didn't Thiel make a speaker with a concrete baffle back in the 90's?

[@JEG6919]

@@brianmoore581 You are correct. It sunk the Company.

[@carlosoliveira-rc2xt]

Concrete is actually not that great as a speaker cabinet or practical.

[@JEG6919]

Nano concrete. Acoustically inert. Provides the sound deadening mass without the weight. Multiple applications, not just audio. Give it about three months before the news on it becomes more prevalent. Exciting times!

[@avsystem3142]

@@JEG6919 Never heard of nano concrete but foamed concrete is a thing.

[@BruceCross]

Heavily is usually better, but not always. For example, British speakers in the LS5 tradition like Harbeth, Spendor, and Rogers use lossy cabinets.

[@jeffjames4064]

I remember those round speakers, and I remember what I thought of them. 😁 if I knew then what I know now.

[@PooNinja]

Still no replacement for displacement but newer materials can reduce the weight of a cab and retain rigidity.

[@stevefick3919]

That's alright if your taking about a big block Chevy or a Hemi, but we're talking speakers here! LOL! The new LS-6 Speakers! Just messin' with ya!

[@PooNinja]

carbon fiber Line Source-6 ??? HA!:D

[@Mark-lq3sb]

The replacement for displacement is called a Power Adder. Almost a 1,000hp out of my twin turbo 4.6L Ford Cobra.

[@PooNinja]

@@Mark-lq3sb nice my 1.8l toyota gets about 120hp but its got 1400 watts of audio power :)

[@Mark-lq3sb]

@@PooNinja- Crank it up! Maybe I'll hear it many states away.

[@nicolasjoly1755]

elipson 40-50,spherical plaster loudspeaker put on a cylindrical plaster '4th order bass cabinet

[@peterfernandezjr5914]

My old BIC towers weigh a ton, yet compared to my just acquired Emotiva bookshelf, they sound like crap and the new ones weigh little.

[@mmmbbq]

The dude who wrote the letter could just get himself a new emit tweeter on ebay.

[@stonefree1911]

Seriously, That's what I would do.

[@paikiah77]

I wrote the letter. :) And Emit Rs (new) aren't available new... I hear most old ones on ebay are usually blown. Ended up with Focal Sopra 3... loving them!

[@ped-away-g1396]

not always. heavier weight can be due to many things. heavier material, more bracing or simply because it's bigger. none of these can ensure elimination of audible panel resonance. what you want to look for is a proper bracing which is almost impossible unless they have a cutaway model to show you the inside of the speaker. a proper bracing needs at least connecting each panel to another perpendicular panel. connecting a panel to the opposite one is pretty much pointless and is a waste of time and resource. this is one of the reasons when it comes to speakers, i'd prefer DIY approach.

[@jonathansturm4163]

"connecting a panel to the opposite one is pretty much pointless and is a waste of time and resource." Joseph D'Appolito, Phil Vafiadis and AR Bailey might disagree with that. It's what you do when building a folded transmission line cabinet. OTOH if you build a _straight_ transmission line as a friend of mine did, you end up with a tapered box that's 3.6 metres (12 feet) long. Unwieldy to say the least. His wife hated them with great hatred and he eventually had to get rid of them.

[@ped-away-g1396]

@@jonathansturm4163 in that case, it's done primarily for lengthening the pathway. though each panel connects opposite panels together but also connects perpendicular panels too so it can act as a brace. what i meant is connecting 'only' opposite panels together like what some knockdown cabinets do www.parts-express.com/Data/Default/Images/Catalog/Original/300-7088_ALT_1.jpg

[@carlosoliveira-rc2xt]

Disagree. Bracing a panel against a parallel panel shifts the resonances higher in the frequency range. For a bass resonance that would ameliorate the deleterious effects of said resonance. Low frequency panel resonances are the most destructive and easily heard. They tend to stay around longer. Perimeter or window bracing is the easiest type to make in manufacturing and the most commonly used. With that said the effectiveness of a brace is greatest at the mid point of each panel.

[@ped-away-g1396]

@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt then do it your way, i don't care.

[@ped-away-g1396]

@My Name the whole point of bracing is to uneven the structure of the enclosure. the rigidity is just a byproduct.

[@Toolgdskli]

Why not enclose a round speaker in a lightweight box?

[@johnholmes912]

my little stand-mounts weigh a ton

[@TheRockerxx69]

Yes heavy are better. Mass. Bracing. Dampening. That makes a better sound. Mine DIY are 360 lbs each

[@Montreal_Audio_Systems]

Now that's serious stuff let me guess JBL pro stuff

[@TheRockerxx69]

@@Montreal_Audio_Systems not really : bass module cement ballasted, heavy braced and dampened cabinet walls : Seas aluminium woofers. Focal midrange in another module. Morel Tweeter.

[@rotaks1]

KEF LS50s are light but great sounding.

[@carlosoliveira-rc2xt]

I actually hate how they sound.

[@carlosoliveira-rc2xt]

They are light only on an absolute scale. We're talking about a puny speaker here that still weighs 16 lbs.

[@404010ful]

My round ones for my home theater surrounds are orbs the sphere roundness are metal there solid and light and sound great to me. Good video.

[@y.k.9705]

I don't understand, can't an engineer place a ball speaker in a box? Since people like box speakers?

[@ryacus]

I mean you could have some very heavy cabinet's with some very shitty drivers in them, I bet some more obscure brands do it make their products seem more premium.

[@nickclark6001]

You can always put a round speaker enclosure in a square box 🤓

[@carlosoliveira-rc2xt]

Not in the reasonably priced speaker category. In the expensive range, there are better ways to go about it.

[@user-od9iz9cv1w]

or a round full range on top of a box of woofers like B&W

[@jordanlewis3790]

We have the same chairs

[@krsp420]

Which is that? I want one.

[@kalijasin]

The new thing now is egg shaped e.g. MunroSonic Egg 100.

[@gerritgovaerts8443]

Siegfried Linkwitz's Pluto and LXmini omnidirectional speakers have enclosures made out of lightweight PVC piping : www.linkwitzlab.com/Pluto/Pluto-2.htm www.linkwitzlab.com/LXmini/Introduction.htm

[@stonefree1911]

Upcoming AN and upcoming Stellar series speakers. Define "upcoming"...………………………………..

[@LordVictorHalgaard]

They've showed them at hifi shows, so it in the finalizing stages.

[@AndyBHome]

What about an egg shaped speaker? (chicken egg for the detail oriented among you). Isn't the egg one of the strongest 3-dimensional shapes around?

[@carlosoliveira-rc2xt]

It's not so much about strength as resistance to resonances within the audible range.

[@avsystem3142]

A sphere is stronger than an ellipsoid. Eggs are not round because they would roll out of the nest too easily.

[@randomweirdyoutubechannel8955]

I hope I don't become an audiophile cuz damn that shits expensive

[@belcantobrasil]

1:35 Only siths deal with absolutes.

[@m.morininvestor9920]

I have 2 sets of Kenwood and they feel thin as fuck 😅

[@upsty6499]

Neurolinguistics is a strange concept.

[@alexanderwesner9980]

1975 Advent large tasty

[@davidmatthewwilkins9615]

I fully agrede keith you ! I have 8 sets 🙃 and the AR9, AR90, AR11,AR10, I MUST BE CRAZY 🤔

[@logtothebase2]

light Speaker is an oxymoron.

[@carlosoliveira-rc2xt]

How so?

[@no_bull]

You want British speakers? Look no further than Tannoy.

[@jimydrinkworld]

First

[@endrizo]

So what? Do ypu want an standing ovation or what? Say something worth reading.

[@awdadwadwad1723]

[@Charlie-zj3hw]

Are you 8 yrs old? This trend on being first to comment is retarded

[@mag-wp6yt]

@@Charlie-zj3hw Maybe you don't know the meaning of that word? I find these 'firsties' infuriating also but there's plenty of people on these threads with disabled family members who don't need to be subjected to people flippantly using that term. Not sure how it became such an all too common insult on the internet.

[@paulwibb.8944]

Don't listen to them Jim,, they wanted to be first really,, they're just jealous.