Are Mormons our Brothers and Sisters in Chirst?

[@petertherock7340]

The single biggest problem with the teaching of the LDS Church is that it does not accept who and what the true God (the Creator) actually is. Mormonism teaches that the Father was once a man like us who after his mortal death was exalted to “godhood.” Jesus is his spirit child born of sexual intercourse between the Father and Mary. The Holy Spirit is simply a spirit that manipulates our feelings to believe in the Father and the Mormon Jesus. However, the Catholic Church has always taught that God the Father is “almighty” and has no beginning or end. For more information, see the Roman Catechism, I Believe in God, The Almighty… 😊😊😊

[@IJN-33]

@@petertherock7340 This is very much not what we believe. Yes, God was a man, no he didn't become God after. He was before, during, and after. The sexual intercourse claim is just plain not true and is not a position of the church in any way. The holy Spirit doesn't manipulate our feelings, he influences our thoughts, and feelings. There is only one Jesus and we believe Him.

[@petertherock7340]

@ If you are a Mormon then you are lying. You should consult “Mormon Doctrine” by Bruce McConkie and the King Follet Discourse by Joseph Smith. 👍

[@IJN-33]

@petertherock7340 Both non-canonical works. The king Follet discourse is my basis for not believing that. I know what you're referencing, but I don't think that's what Joseph meant. The opinion of Bruce R. Mcconkie does not constitute doctrine. As a side note it's bad form to accuse someone of lying when you have no sense of their intention. If you'd like a civil discussion I'm game, but that's not academic at all.

[@petertherock7340]

@ You Mormons are all the same. When you can’t answer charges truthfully, you always resort to lies. There is no such thing as “canonical” Mormon doctrine because it is always changing. The LDS Church is false because it was founded by a false prophet, Joseph Smith. It has no spiritual or apostolic authority. It’s all a scam. 👍

[@petertherock7340]

The truth about Mormon history is there in the public view for all to see. Thanks be to John Dehlin of “Mormon Stories Podcast” for enlightening so many inside and outside the LDS Church about the real history of this false religion. John Dehlin suffered his own excommunication from the LDS Church for speaking the truth to the whole world. I think this tells us all we need to know about the “credibility” of the LDS leadership. 👍

[@WakeUpDeadManMinistry]

Keep spreading truth, brother. May God open the eyes of the people deeply ensnared in this false cult. Don't "love them all the way down to hell" like they want you to do. Conrinue to love them by bringing the truth. Jesus Christ is not "a" god. Jesus Christ IS God.

[@AverageJoe-12]

The Pharisees thought the people of the way were a cult too. It is only blasphemy if it is wrong and only looking to your singular interpretation of what you think God said because of the doctrines and traditions of men.

[@thomasmaughan4798]

"in this false cult" So if a cult is *false* it isn't really a cult. Got it! "Jesus Christ IS God" *To whom did Jesus pray* ?

[@WakeUpDeadManMinistry]

@thomasmaughan4798 you know exactly what I meant. It's a cult that preaches a false Gospel. And Jesus prayed to His Father.

[@WakeUpDeadManMinistry]

@AverageJoe-12 I say this in love, youre free to believe whatever nonsense you want, but Scripture is clear that Jesus is God. And how funny you wanna bring up following the doctrines and teaching of men as if you're not literally doing the same thing. Except mine is historically reliable and consistent.

[@thomasmaughan4798]

@@WakeUpDeadManMinistry "Scripture is clear that Jesus is God. " Scripture is clear that Jesus is the Son of God. Let's find a source. "Mark 3:11: “And whenever the unclean spirits saw him, they fell down before him and cried out, 'You are the Son of God.'”." Luke 1:32: “He will be called great and will be called the Son of the Most High.” Luke 1:35: “... therefore the child to be born will be called holy-the Son of God.”

[@cherylanon5791]

interestingly, after watching this video, I was away from my computer and the next video which played was a lovely pristine "Life Of Jesus Christ" quoting exclusively from KJ Bible, totally Christian...and produced by the LDS Church. And all of the subsequent videos to choose from were LDS produced. BUT what Mark says, in a comparatively rough disorganized (sorry, but your first 11 minutes before the Galatians 1:6 quote) rings far more TRUE.

[@CampfireApologetics]

@@cherylanon5791 Thanks for the comment. And sorry for the disorganization. Video, youtube and podcasting are all new to me. So in time, I’m hoping to get much better. I appreciate the constructive criticism though!

[@cherylanon5791]

@@CampfireApologetics never fear, I have already recommended this video, and your channel, to several friends (some who were very confused as to why exactly the LDS is not genuine Christian). Keep up the good work!

[@CampfireApologetics]

@@cherylanon5791 oh wow. Thank you so much! I really appreciate that!

[@AwakeAndAscend]

“Mormons“ don’t necessarily have a monopoly on the book of Mormon, which is another testament of Jesus Christ. One should set aside the religion and read the book of Mormon and then decide if the book of Mormon is truly another testament of Jesus Christ. No church made up of men is perfect. Churches are like vehicles trying to get people to come onto Christ hold onto that which is good. Reading the book of Mormon independently of joining the church or whatever is going to be a life-changing enlightenment.

[@CampfireApologetics]

@@AwakeAndAscend We don’t need to read the Book of Mormon to test it because the Bible already tells us that it is not a New Testament of Jesus Christ. Especially when it explicitly contradicts Jesus’ own words and the rest of scripture. Deuteronomy 4:2 tells us not to add to the words God has commanded, proverbs 30:5-6 says every word of God proves true and to not add to his words lest he rebuke you and you be found a liar, and not to mention Galatians 1 which I expand on in the video. We don’t need any new revelation or gospel. Paul says if you are given a new gospel, then the person giving it is to be accursed. I encourage you to watch the whole episode. Thanks for the comment!

[@kjvjay]

*It is strange that a majority of Mormon doctrines, practices, and teachings CANNOT be found in the Book of Mormon.* Very strange considering the claims made by the author, Joseph Smith. In the Introduction to the Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith, founder of Mormonism wrote, “I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book.” Temple rituals, underwear with sewn in Masonic symbols, the practice of polygamy, are not in the Book of Mormon. Also you will not learn who the Mormon god is from the Book of Mormon. Smith did not reveal the god of Mormons is an exalted man until 14 years after he wrote the Book of Mormon.

[@IJN-33]

​@@CampfireApologeticsThis presupposes it is a new gospel, which is not the claim. We claim to be the original. So you should read the Book of Mormon to verify that claim. If it doesn't fit there you go. I would argue it does.

[@thomasmaughan4798]

"don’t necessarily have a monopoly on the book of Mormon" Yes; there's more than a dozen church denominations that use it.

[@newmadiba]

So, we have decided to distance ourselves from the Mormon moniker because our Faith is centered on Jesus Christ as Lord, Savior, and Creator and so using the full name of the church (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) reinforces this assertion.

[@CampfireApologetics]

@@newmadiba I’m not so much worried about the label as much as I am the doctrine.

[@thomasmaughan4798]

A less obvious purpose is revealing the anti's on social media. Anyone still using "Mormon" didn't get the memo.

[@thomasmaughan4798]

@@CampfireApologetics "I’m not so much worried about the label as much as I am the doctrine." Yes; the sticky label. It is very helpful.

[@Thomas-pt2bt]

I have a question, are you a member of a non denominational church? If so, how are you going to be saved through the grace of Christ? you must be baptized and have faith in Christ in order to be saved. In order for someone to baptize, they must have the authority from god, passed down from a prophet, like Christ giving his apostles the priesthood.

[@CampfireApologetics]

@@Thomas-pt2bt No I’m not a member of a nondenominational church. Although that wouldn’t matter because I reject the idea that you have to be baptized in order to be saved. How would my works of baptizing earn the grace of God? You have a misunderstanding of grace if you think it needs to be earned. That’s the exact opposite of what grace is.

[@petertherock7340]

Mormons are indeed “culturally Christian” in that they use Christian language, celebrate Christian holidays, and adopt Christian morality in general. However, they do not have fellowship (koinonia) or communion with other Christian faiths. They do have ecumenical dialogue with the Catholic Church, but not communion. 😊😊😊

[@IJN-33]

My experience primarily is that this is due to exclusion from said groups.

[@petertherock7340]

@ The exclusion is mostly from the LDS side since “all Christian creeds are an abomination and all professors of religion are corrupt,” says Joseph Smith. I had a Mormon elder friend who ended our friendship because of my Catholicism. But I still give credit where credit is due. Mormons are Christian in the cultural sense. 😊

[@IJN-33]

@petertherock7340 I'm sorry to hear that. That's a terrible thing for them to do. There's definitely a whole discussion that could be had about what that quote means, but at least in modern practice I see more exclusion the other way around, although generally I'm thinking more of evangelical protestants than Catholics, who have historically been pretty cool. Usually the rhetoric among us is about interfaith connection and recognizing the truth in other groups. Even if we still maintain unique authority.

[@petertherock7340]

@ Agreed. In my opinion, Mormonism is itself an “apostasy” from 19th century Evangelical Protestantism. This is why Evangelicals today tend to be so combative with Mormons, whom they do NOT regard as Christians. I admit that Mormons are culturally Christian, but not in sacramental union with the Catholic Church (which even President Nelson would admit). Ecumenical dialogue, yes. Sacramental union… no. Of course, many Evangelicals say that Catholics are not “Christian” either! 😊

[@cherylanon5791]

Mormons use some of the same words & labels as Christians, but assign vastly different meaning to them. Just consider the nature of Jesus Christ, the LDS view vs the Christian view, are a total 180 difference. The Trinity, the path of Salvation, what are the Scriptures, so so so many different definitions.

[@furtherlightandknowledge]

Brother, please do a little more reading and research. You don't know what you are talking about. Please learn more about the "gates of hell" and what that means. Maybe watch a little Michael Heiser or something. Broaden your understanding of the Bible and try to read the Bible in its historical context.

[@SimonDaumMusic]

If we consider how Protestantism changed meanings and doctrines over the past few hundret years compared to their original time, place and context, you probably would have to reject communion with yourself. In a way I understand where you are comming from, but I think you are sticking too much to the law of the letter, while Christ proved with whom he was willing to commune. Not just commune, but he even went as far as to consider someone being "good" whom the Jews considered to be pagan. Not just should we follow Christs example in that regard, but also apply the certain way of discernment on how to know who truly is of Christ, which is to disern by their fruits. Jesus was clear, once we see these good fruits, we can and do know without any doubt that someone knows God. To believe thought these good fruits are merely a reference to works, faith or getting every doctrine right, errs.

[@kjvjay]

*Yes, Mormons claim their church is the one true church* and all Christians Churches are wrong, corrupt, and an abomination. To have eternal life, Mormons claim everyone needs to join their church, pay them 10% of your total income, get a Temple Recommend from a Mormon bishop so you may participate in a Temple Endowment Rituals, perform baptism of the dead rituals, which includes, giving Masonic type handshakes, saying secret passwords, wearing underwear with sewn in Masonic symbols, and do much more. All so you possibly, maybe, perhaps, have eternal life becoming a Mormon polygamist exalted man god or a goddess wife. Where as the Bible and Christian message is to have forgiveness of sin and God’s gift of eternal life in the presence of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, is through faith and trust in Jesus Christ only and not through any church. “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;” (Romans 3:23) “For the wages of sin is death; but THE GIFT OF GOD IS ETERNAL LIFE THROUGH JESUS CHRIST our Lord” (Romans 6:23) “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is *the gift of God:* Not of works, lest any man should boast.” (Ephesians 2: 8-9) Jesus said, “…know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” (John 8:32)

[@daveo3897]

Bro you butchered the LDS beliefs. You can’t get your information from anti-Mormon tract. Talk to those Elders if you really want to understand and speak somewhat intelligently about another faith. Very misleading and inaccurate

[@CampfireApologetics]

@@daveo3897 it’s one thing to make an assertion, but it’s another to back it up. Anyone can simply say “you’re wrong” but you haven’t provided me with an example of what I said that was “butchered.” I’m willing to recant if you can provide me with examples. Did you watch the whole video? Or just a few minutes and then decide? It’s also interesting that you said I should get my information from Mormon elders or sources. I spoke recently with a local elder and everything that I said to him, he affirmed is a teaching and everything I said to him is also in this video. Not to mention I also quoted Joseph Smith in his King Follet discourse. That’s about as close to the source as you can get.

[@whiteknight557]

Since you wanted specifics here they are: 1) 11:00 - The LDS view is that Orthodox Christianity (OC) is the group that turned to a new gospel 2) 13:00 - The LDS Church does not believe you can earn your own salvation and they do have Galatians as part of their scriptures 3) 14:40 - Joseph Smith (JS) was not confused, he realized he hadn't been as focused on the things of God as he probably should have been considering his previous experience in the grove and was basically repenting 4) 15:05 - 17:30 - Not even sure what to say here, so much misinformation I would have to write a book just to debunk it all 5) 17:35 - Shouldn't God be your highest authority? God is the highest authority in the LDS Church. If the Bible is your highest authority then that is your god and you're worshipping an idol, congrats! 6) 18:20 - The fact that you don't believe in ongoing revelation is the main reason why you and all other OC groups are in apostasy 7) 18:40 - So Proverbs, Corinthians, and Timothy all closed the canon? 8) 20:00 - Not a contradiction at all, just need to learn definitions and how to read 9) 21:00 - misunderstanding of King Follet Sermon, typical, not new, do better research. Also calling God a demon...not highly recommended. There is no infinite regress of gods, just another misunderstanding. As said before, DO BETTER RESEARCH! So ignorant. 10) 24:55 - LOL! You realize that the resurrection in and of itself is illogical right? So making that claim is just dumb. I think I will stop at 10, but there is so much misinformation here that this is guy is not even worth watching. Stop googling anti-LDS stuff to get your information and have a sit down with an actual member of the church that knows what they're talking about.

[@IJN-33]

​@@whiteknight557The infinite regress always bothers me since that's not the plain reading of the King Follet discourse or the sermon in the grove. I prefer Blake ostler's ideas on the subject.

[@whiteknight557]

@@IJN-33 I agree. Infinite regress is definitely not the correct reading of the King Follet Sermon and a little research in to the matter and a little more study of the scriptures would also make that pretty clear. Anti-LDS folks just like to use that because they are dishonest and disingenuous and because it makes LDS seem ridiculous. Blake Ostler is a stud for sure. Don't agree 100% with everything he says, especially concerning his BoM geography, but overall he's a great read and provides phenomenal insights. Anti-LDS would just have to listen to him talk on the issue to understand the more correct view, but that would require intellectual honesty and integrity.

[@petertherock7340]

@@whiteknight557The Bible is the Book of the Catholic Church. Maybe you should learn the true history of Christianity instead of speaking authoritatively about things you know nothing about. For more information, see “History of the Catholic Church” by James Hitchcock. 😊😊😊

[@michaeldouglass8592]

I agree with your assessment re: reaching out to members of LDS, JW's and others. However, speaking from the experience of being billeted for a year overseas with a LDS Deacon, you MUST do your research of Orthodox Christianity and LDS Doctrine. There are HUGE differences between Orthodox Christianity and LDS. LDS is hugely polytheistic, where man can become exalted and attain godhood, being given a planet of their own and, with his wife, populate it with spirit babies who become human and thus worship that god. Jesus is the first born spirit baby of THIS world, Earth. Not devine. Simply put, in Orthodox Christianity God became man in the person of Jesus. In LDS theology man can become a god.

[@thomasmaughan4798]

"being given a planet of their own and" Given? Dude; you must *make* your own. You can make it any way you like!

[@OhLordMyRedeemer]

I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and I can testify that we are ALL brothers and sisters in Christ! The Lord loves every one of us and has commanded us to love on another. ♥️♥️♥️

[@petertherock7340]

You are incorrect. Humanity is not all “brothers in Christ.” We are brothers in Adam for sure. We all share our basic humanity. To be “brothers” in Christ there must be an essential “communion” or agreement on the nature of God and Christ. This communion does not exist between Mormons and other Christian faiths. After all, it was Joseph Smith himself who said that all Christian creeds were an abomination and all professors of religion were corrupt. 😊😊😊

[@CampfireApologetics]

@@OhLordMyRedeemer We cannot be brothers when we don’t serve the same Jesus. Mormons serve a Jesus that cannot save. When the fundamental teachings of the faith differ in such great degree, we cannot commune with such heresy.

[@OhLordMyRedeemer]

I’m sorry you feel that way. Im not sure why you think that we believe Jesus cannot save. Without Jesus Christ no one could be saved. Persecution of others for their beliefs is not a characteristic of a Christian, I hope we may all treat each other with kindness, love, and respect. Peacemakers are needed now more than ever as we prepare for the second coming of Jesus Christ. ♥️

[@petertherock7340]

@@OhLordMyRedeemer Facts have nothing to do with your “feelings.” Compare “The Plurality of Gods” in Mormon Doctrine by Bruce McConkie with the Statement of the Nicene Creed. 👍

[@CampfireApologetics]

@ I agree we need to be loving and respectful. I hope I’m not coming across as “persecuting.” That isn’t what I’m doing. I’m calling out false teaching as the apostles did and commanded us to do. I would have to ask you, which Jesus do you follow? If it’s the brother of Satan who is a created being, then it is not the Jesus of the orthodox Biblical scriptures. A created Jesus who is not the creator of the universe does not have the power to forgive your sins or save you. A system that teaches that you will one day be God is in direct contradiction to what the Bible teaches. I’m not sure if you watched the whole episode or not, but I’d encourage you to watch the whole thing. I address these issues. Thanks for the comment!

[@thomasmaughan4798]

This works both ways. Shall "Mormons" consider the ten thousand rival divisions of Christianity to be brothers and sisters? Sometimes. Among my extended family are Lutheran, Catholic, Episcopalian. I attend services from any of them, but not regularly, and I do not ridicule the serious believers of each. Their faith, hope and charity is at times superior to my own. And yet, their understanding is incomplete; Lutherans for instance appear not to have decided on whether Jesus was divine (actual son of God) or a man with a divine mission. For many evangelical Christians, they have a challenge answering "To whom did Jesus pray?" But start out with some qualifications for minsters of any kind (2 Corinthians) "3 Giving *no offence* in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed: [ *Don't be rude* ] 4 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses, 5 In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings; 6 By pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned," It is less clear that different-believers are the same as unbelievers: "14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?" However, many of these epistles are written because divisions were happening in the early church. It doesn't take long. "2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven." *Third heaven? WHAT third heaven?* Yeah, well, that's probably the Celestial Kingdom. "10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:" I suggest that right now is the *fullness of times* and it is the time of the gathering of Israel. How's that coming along? Many of these people to be gathered hear their shepherd's voice, and are drawn to Christ; but the road they take depends on what is available. People drawn to the Son of God are not probably wasting their lives ridiculing other people. "4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is *now revealed* unto his *holy apostles and prophets* by the Spirit; 6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:" Apostles and prophets were expected to still exist and be the source of knowledge at the time of Paul. It is an error to suppose that at some point, apostles and prophets are no longer needed. "29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. 30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: 32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you." Do you suppose none of this counsel pertains to your behaviors and attitudes toward "Mormons"?

[@kobidog4432]

Bro I encourage you to go back and reread your bible read in the way the holy ghost will enter in your heart not the way your church mislead the bible. Ask God for help don't rely on your own understanding.

[@RobertWilkinson-vl1fs]

The main difference is this: Latter-day Saints are not "Creedists". They do not accept the various creeds beginning in the third century with the pagan Emperor Constantine.

[@petertherock7340]

Constantine was a convert to the Christianity. The Emperor had nothing to do with the issues that necessitated the Nicene and Constantinople Creed, 325, 380. 😊😊😊

[@CampfireApologetics]

@@RobertWilkinson-vl1fs I think there are many more fundamental differences than adhering to creeds. Foundational doctrines are the biggest differences. The Bible is the ultimate standard. Not creeds. Although, some creeds have great confession and teaching.

[@petertherock7340]

The Bible itself is the Book of the Catholic Church. The ecumenical creeds are an expression of Sacred Tradition which is equal in authority to Sacred Scripture. 😊😊😊

[@thomasmaughan4798]

I come here to enjoy a bit of "whack a mole" any time "Mormon" is in a title.

[@tylerthoren9760]

Christians strive to be more like Jesus Christ and you claim to be Christian, yet your actions are quite the opposite of what Jesus would do. Jesus didn't hate ANYBODY and he certainly didn't lie. Claiming you're Christian while simultaneously preaching hatred towards anyone is taking the Lord's name in vain.

[@CampfireApologetics]

@@tylerthoren9760 could you provide me with anything at all that I said that would lead you to believe that I hate Mormons? You can’t, because I didn’t say anything at all that was hateful toward Mormons. In fact I said at the end of the video to “share the reason for the hope that is in you and do it lovingly with reverence and respect.” Is disagreement hatred? It’s more loving to tell the truth. Jesus would absolutely call out false teaching which is what I have done and what we see him do over and over again with Pharisees. We also see the apostles doing the same thing and also commanding Christians to call out false teachings. All you have done is name call and provide nothing of substance to suggest that I actually said anything hateful at all.

[@kjvjay]

@tylerthoren9760 You should have been around to admonish Brigham Young, 2nd Mormon prophet. *“Do the Christian world know whether God has eyes to see, ears to hear, or hands, or a body? They are as ignorant of the true God as are those islanders, and all whom WE CALL HEATHEN.”* This rant was part of Young’s message during the Sunday Service before the self-proclaimed latter-day saints, in the Tabernacle, Salt Lake City, February 7, 1858. (Journal of Discourses Vol. 6 of 26, page 195) *“The people called Christians are shrouded in ignorance, and read the Scriptures with darkened understandings.”* This rant was Brigham Young’s message to the self proclaimed latter-day saints, at their all important semi-annual General Conference, which was in the Tabernacle, Salt Lake City, Utah, Saturday, October 8, 1859. (Journal of Discourses, Vol.7 of 26, page 333) ------------------------------------ Here is an Anti-Christian rant from Brigham Young, 2nd Mormon prophet, *“Do the Christian world know whether God has eyes to see, ears to hear, or hands, or a body? They are as ignorant of the true God as are those islanders, and all whom WE CALL HEATHEN.”* This rant was part of Young’s message during the Sunday Service before the self-proclaimed latter-day saints, in the Tabernacle, Salt Lake City, February 7, 1858. (Journal of Discourses Vol. 6 of 26, page 195)

[@kjvjay]

@tylerthoren9760 You should have been there to admonish from John Taylor, who become the 3rd Mormon prophet. *“We talk about Christianity, but it is a perfect pack of nonsense.* Men talk about civilization; but I do not want to say much about that, for I have seen enough of it. Myself and hundreds of the Elders around me have seen its pomp, parade, and glory; and what is it? It is a sounding brass and a tinkling symbol; *it is as corrupt as hell; and the Devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century.”* This was part of Taylor’s Sunday Service message to the self-proclaimed latter-day saints, January 17, 1858 in the Tabernacle, Salt Lake City Utah. (Journal of Discourses Vol. 6 of 26, page 167)

[@kjvjay]

*Mormons claim their church is the one true church* and all Christians Churches are wrong, corrupt, and an abomination. To have eternal life, Mormons claim everyone needs to join their church, pay them 10% of your total income, get a Temple Recommend from a Mormon bishop so you may participate in a Temple Endowment Rituals, perform baptism of the dead rituals, which includes, giving Masonic type handshakes, saying secret passwords, wearing underwear with sewn in Masonic symbols, and do much more. All so you possibly, maybe, perhaps, have eternal life becoming a Mormon polygamist exalted man god or a goddess wife. Where as the Bible and Christian message is to have forgiveness of sin and God’s gift of eternal life in the presence of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, is through faith and trust in Jesus Christ only and not through any church. “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;” (Romans 3:23) “For the wages of sin is death; but THE GIFT OF GOD IS ETERNAL LIFE THROUGH JESUS CHRIST our Lord” (Romans 6:23) “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is *the gift of God:* Not of works, lest any man should boast.” (Ephesians 2: 8-9) Jesus said, “…know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” (John 8:32)

[@jeffreya.faulkner8367]

Where does the Bible name itself? The word "Bible" appears in Matthew 19:7 as "biblion apostasiou." It is the writing of divorce which God mercifully gave apostate Christian churches when they forsook living prophets. Where does the Bible say it is the only scripture? It doesn't say that at all. The Bible, like all Scripture, is a product of living prophets.

[@Terriblefive]

Gotta study more my friend

[@leolightwork]

Great talk and breakdown Mark, you helped answer some questions I had. Appreciate you bro, keep it up 🤝

[@CampfireApologetics]

@@leolightwork thanks for watching brother!

[@heberfrank8664]

Because of Jesus the Trinity has at least TWO parts: 1. the immaterial Essence of one substance and THREE "Persons" AND 2. the resurrected Jesus. If GOD and MAN were the same substance, then Jesus being God and man would be a union of singularity. But they are different. So the hypostatic union is different things in UNITY. The Mormon 3 member Godhead in unity is monotheism just as much as the 2 part Trinity.

[@WakeUpDeadManMinistry]

@heberfrank8664 The resurrection doesn't create a 'two-part Trinity.' Christ's human nature is something He assumed while remaining fully divine - it's not a separate part of the Trinity itself. The hypostatic union describes how Christ's two natures (divine and human) are united in one person, while the Trinity describes the one divine essence shared by three persons. Multiple divine beings working in unity (Mormon Godhead) is fundamentally different from one divine essence existing as three persons (Trinity). By definition, three separate divine beings would be polytheism, not monotheism, regardless of their unity of purpose.

[@thomasmaughan4798]

@@WakeUpDeadManMinistry "Multiple divine beings working in unity (Mormon Godhead) is fundamentally different from one divine essence existing as three persons" Yes. Very different in detail. Perhaps not something you would schism a church over but churches have split over less. It is clear from plain reading that three beings are involved; God, to whom Jesus prayed, Jesus, and the Holy ghost or holy spirit. All three manifest at Jesus' baptism.

[@VICTOR7oh2]

Triune god is hersey. Trinity contradicts the role of father and son. You can't believe jesus is the son of God and at the same time believe he is that god .

[@WakeUpDeadManMinistry]

@VICTOR7oh2 Well not if you look at it through the lens of our "boxed" finite existence. But we believe: Person A fully contains Persons B and C while remaining distinctly A, Person B fully contains A and C while remaining distinctly B, Person C fully contains A and B while remaining distinctly C. John 1:1-3 explains this. Father, Son, and Spirit together in unity, of the same essence is the One true, living God.

[@cherylanon5791]

ice, steam, liquid water....all are "water" but in different forms, water can be steam one day and ice or running water, and the same is true about the Trinity. PLUS when you consider the significance of water in the Bible....this mystery becomes ever more clear. As clear as very clean, pure water.

[@VICTOR7oh2]

@WakeUpDeadManMinistry are you calling gods creation boxed and finite? . You are forgetting that even the plow boy is supposed to be able to understand and comprehend the gospel .

[@VICTOR7oh2]

@cherylanon5791 that comparison has nothing to do with a father and a son . Yes ice steam liquid can all be water but a father and son can't be the same being that defines the role of father and son.

[@WakeUpDeadManMinistry]

@VICTOR7oh2 yes. We are limited finite creatures that exist within time. We cannot fathom the eternal. And the Gospel is easily understandabunde that a "plow boy" can comprehend it.