Are old Citadel paints REALLY better?

I was granted a box of 30 year old games workshop / citadel paints to paint my warhammer with. So i conducted a fun test to see how the new type vallejo and citadel paints compare to the 30 year old ones - a true oldhammer paint off. Thanks Krister for the paints ( / kryokinesi )
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Painting miniatures for your warhammer & d&d games. Age of sigmar and warhammer 40k. Space Marines, Space Wolves, Stormcast Eternals, beastclaw raiders, ogor mawtribes, cities of sigmar, chaos space marines, painting scale models, miniature busts! How to paint NMM. How to paint warhammer, how to paint d&D figures.

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[@donald7216]

I am very excited for the brushes they look great

[@richardlynch-wilson9356]

The completely round pots are mark ones and they lasted the best . They don't thin well with plain water a drop of thinner works better. But if you want to try any old colours i have draws full of them i am still using.

[@scottlock8584]

I got given one of these I put a drop of paint thinner in gave it a gd shake then added a drop of lahmium medium in gave that a gd shake and managed to save quite a bit P.S those hexagons were terrible

[@wolfbytes8787]

did he play space wolves he has alot of sw colors

[@timothysatyr6674]

I store the paints upside down. Seems to make mixing easier 🤷‍♂️

[@GoobertownHobbies]

I guess 25 years of living in an attic isn't good for anyone huh? Minis look awesome tho! I really like the hues of those old colors.

[@Ainar86]

That sweet, neon green...

[@jeffjensen8]

Hey, I've been in my attic for 24 years and so far everything's been grea--- uh oh.... Gotta go!

[@heasne1738]

We all know the best paint is goblin green

[@davidmarsh6656]

Too true.

[@bendd6371]

Agreed

[@nacholibre4516]

I wish I could like this comment more than once

[@e55ex36]

Facts

[@Sonofiron]

Big true

[@DMStraylight]

The round-bottle paints are actually still available new today, under the Coat d'Arms brand, I believe still made by the same mabufacturer GW contracted for them back in the '80s.

[@funoff3207]

Not sure how he didn't find this out

[@Arbbal]

How does this not have more likes? Strangely enough I was just thinking about the old paints GW used to have, and I remembered how much I miss their old Armor Wash. I just checked Coat d'Arms and they still make it. Thank you so much.

[@Dextarish]

I had forgotten the name of this brand and I have been looking for them for like a year, thanks dude did me a major solid!

[@JayAndNightASMR]

The best thing was the old paints were they were named better and were more consistent, they're constantly changing the new paints so you end up with 3 very slightly different colours of the same name.

[@zhain0]

Probably done in smaller batches, most paint is like that. Its why you always match batch numbers.

[@captin3149]

I still have some of them and they still perform better than their 'replacements'

[@JayAndNightASMR]

@@captin3149 yeah I have a pot of ink left and works like a charm still

[@JayAndNightASMR]

@@GPOLICE yeah you see it all the time people thinking they haven't mixed properly no matter how hard they try, when in actual facts it is actually different

[@Electricalphil]

@@GPOLICE Oh yeah, I have a Tau army that was fucked because they discontinued the line,.

[@ericsmith1508]

I started by painting my Heroquest set with Testor's enamel model paints. I had a basic set with red, black, blue, yellow, and white. No green. No purple. No flesh. My dad (who was a professional artist and sign painter most of his life) taught me how to mix blue and red for purple, blue and yellow for green, red and yellow for orange, and red and black to get brown, then how to mix that with various amounts of white to get all my different flesh tones. I was fortunate that my father was a professional artist because I got a head start on color mixing for those various tones and colors.

[@michaelpurvis7324]

I had almost the exact same experience but my father has never supported my ''little plastic men'' hobby😕

[@jordivermeulen2519]

One thing I will say about these old paints: the seals on the pots were much better. When I got back into painting a while back, I had a bunch of pots from different eras. The only ones that were still usable were some of the hexagonal ones, which are the oldest paints I own. All the newer pots had simply turned into a big dry lump. That said, I still wish Citadel paints came in dropper bottles. I recently transfered all my paints to droppers and I don't think I'll ever want to go back.

[@tristanellis-mascoll1171]

Well the nice part about the citadel paints is that you can use some directly from the pot. As for the 3rd and up generation of paints, I regret throwing them away. I could have ground the up into pigments (and either use them for basing or to improve cheaper colours).

[@cptncutleg]

@@tristanellis-mascoll1171 that's a great idea actually, I'll keep that in mind ^_^

[@cptncutleg]

The hexagonal bottles were fantastic. I still have a lot of Black Ink, which I use a dropper to mix and create my own wash every now and again

[@OrionTheAussie]

Buy dropper bottles my dude. That's what I do. I always transfer my citadel paints to dropper aside from the dry brush ones.

[@Scherdnr]

This style of paint pot lasts longer than any others I’ve had. As long as you don’t keep resealing then with paint dried in the lid.

[@jorey4565]

New Citadel paints have huge problem for light colors especially with kind of sedimentation creating lumps..you have to filter them to have a nice fluid paint for brush & airbrush..i have all brands complete paints of them,Vallejo model and game,AK interactive 3gen,Citadel LAyer and Base,Kimera,and some scale 75 ,etc..there are not a brand most better than a another,each have their wickness and strengh. But i must admit Citadel,then well diluted with airbrush thinner for airbrush or water/airbrush thinner for brush are my best paints to used. I'm 50years old,winning 3 golden demon in France,and start painting in years 1985.

[@OrionTheAussie]

I've found only some citadel are okay to thin and airbrush. Vellejo is a better option for airbrush imo. I do think citadel made airbrush paints but probably expensive

[@cartouchator]

@@OrionTheAussie their air range is terrible and doesn't match the non air colour paint of the same name :( citadel paints are very fine used in airbrush the only problem is transfering the paint into the airbrush cup is annoying due to their bottle design. Other than that never had an issue. That's being said I agree with some of their whites and yellows being not very good. Ceramite white for instance is the worst I've ever seen, brand new pot straight from the shop already had lumps in it and was so thick it was more like a paste, and adding water to it just made the pigments separate... Awful.

[@jorey4565]

@@OrionTheAussie Hi,i have not buy the Citadel airbrush color,but this afternnon i save two bottles of Dorn Yellow,horrible to see,even the paints was receive "factory new",huge lumps and sedimentation,i was ready to put them to the garbage,but i finally save them ,this is the formula; -add to the bottle directly a metallic agitator ball,20 drops of Vallejo airbrush flow improver,20 drops of Vallejo airbrush thinner and 10 drops of Liquitex airbrush thinner/medium !!and shake like hell !!! and that's it..i have not a special formula for airbrush,used all brands and mixing them together according to my utilisation..hope it helps..

[@justanotherdayinthelife9841]

I love the vivid green of the old school goblin skin over all others 100%.

[@NordiskBlod]

Oh my sweet summerchild. Starting with Citadel paints. I remember starting out with old as hell, toxic, stinking and impossibly difficult Humbrol Enamel paints that my dad gave me. I can tell yor today, that you should NOT lick a brush loaded with enamel paint. Tasted bad, and felt even worse. But i was just an idiotic 12 year old dane. What did i know about toxic paints? Buying my first Citadel set was like switching from sandpaper to 4 ply toiletpaper. Smoooooooth and niiiiice. Anyways, keep doing your thing. You rock. Well.. for a swede. Hilsen fra Danmark.

[@cluelesscraftsman]

Nordisk Blod same here. Humbrol enamels. On airfix model aircraft at first, then miniatures when I got into AD&D. And then citadel paints were released and everything changed. I actually still have most of my original pots somewhere.

[@senint]

Nordisk Blod LoL! I learned to paint with Humbrol’s Enamel paints under strict guidance from my dad... I was somewhere under 10yo when I started... 😂 ...sweet 90s memories... 😭

[@uriance88]

Here in Canada it was all about the 'fine, high quality' testors enamels . . .with the arrival of the Tamiya acrylics/lacquers like a gift from the heavens (back in the 80's and 90s, GW was extremely niche and other than holdover citadel blister packs in most gaming stores, not much to be found. Coming back to painting a couple of years ago has been so much easier

[@cptncutleg]

I "basecoated" my first model with yellow enamel paint... and not thinly.

[@Sangramore]

Trying to paint plastic german tanks with crap brushes and Humbrol paints. The memories, mostly the smell. Hey Emil! That's a challenge for you. Get some Humbrol oil paints and see how you like them.

[@idk-yl7fn]

I think we all wanna know one thing. Which one tastes the best?

[@Amadan78]

I disliked the taste of skull white.

[@ThatWildcard]

Modern khorne red make your tongue tingle while a fresh pot of Blood for the bloodgod smells like cheap cherry candy

[@thejellyranger7679]

As a devout brush-licker, I can say Leadbelcher burns the tongue. Nurgle’s Rot is delicious, change my mind.

[@thejellyranger7679]

Waystone Glow tastes exactly like it smells: delicious.

[@arczersky]

@@thejellyranger7679 i kinda like leadbelcher... i hate taste of incubi darkness

[@GirlPainting]

BTW, those round pots are the best in the market to keep your paints from drying out (this video is literaly the proof of that). you can get those pots from the warcolour website. i refilled all of my paints to them ^^ love em to bits

[@GirlPainting]

@theboldbear for those who know my channel, i hate dropper bottles with passion.

[@GirlPainting]

@theboldbear lets just say i had some....accidents...with dropper bottles in the past and leave it there ;-)

[@TheGameCraftDragon]

I think the issue had more to do with the actual age, rather than the quality of the actual paints. I'd suggest you try Coat d'Arms - they were the original manufacturer of the citadel pots before they brought the manufacturing in house. Trying new Coat d'Arms vs New Citadel might be a better experience.

[@drewthornley6863]

Having used coat d'arms for years before moving to a mix of GW and Vallejo I can say they really weren't as good, just so inconsistent

[@MasterShake9000]

Coat D’Arms aren’t the original maker. HMG Paints is the original supplier for the round and hex bottle ranges for GW seen in this video. When GW changed suppliers with the bolter shell pots, Coat D’Arms licensed HMG to continue producing the GW range under the Coat D’Arms brand. Blackhat Minis later bought the brand, and expanded it with a historicals range of colors (the original GW range is labeled as the Fantasy range). Mike McVey, whom GW tasked with redesigning their range from the original round pots to the hex pots, was later hired by Privateer Press to design their P3 range. P3 is also produced by HMG paints, and if you compare it to either Coat D’Arms or the GW hex bottle range, they’re virtually identical (not counting the more recent paints and inks that P3 has added to its range). The only change is that P3 paints are made using liquid pigments, rather than the solid fine ground pigments that the rest use. Additionally, Warcolours Paints has a “Nostagia 88” range that replicates the original GW set, although I believe it’s made by Warcolours themselves and was reverse-engineered, so the exact formulas may not match the originals. HMG also makes the Foundry paint range as well.

[@MentoliptusBanko]

The most amazing thing about those old paints is that they are still usable after more than 20 years in the pot :O

[@artsyork3915]

thats why they changed them. No money in paints that last soo long. Ive had paints that didnt even last a year nowadays.

[@MrZauberelefant]

@@artsyork3915 Got a mega paint set from 2009 or 2010 and after 10 years, almost all colours were still good.

[@michaelwade6086]

@@artsyork3915 Actually, they changed them because they used leaded pigments in paint back then.... the same time the minis switched from lead to Pewter. IIRC, both the first gen (the tapered round bottles) and the second gen (the octagonal bottles) were produced before the change.

[@artsyork3915]

@@michaelwade6086 well that i get then. They did seem to last longer but then again with our habbits of painting on thumbs and licking brushes that may have not been so great.

[@michaelwade6086]

@@artsyork3915 I probably have some residual brain damage from doing just that.

[@BuzZzpH7]

I painted back in the 90s and remember the lids breaking off all the time. Love the paint jobs on both but have to say the new paints look much better. Nice work

[@porcu12345]

Oh man. The original Tin Bitz. I used to paint my "Space Orkz" armour with that back in the day. I still have so many of these old school paints and they are still fully functional after all those years being opened. Only a couple of them dried up.

[@andrewpackham8236]

Tin bitz was a truly Orky colour indeed

[@digitaldeviltry]

I miss Tin Bitz and Graveyard Earth the most.

[@padanfain7466]

Tinny tin from Valejo is a perfect substitute

[@weekendheroes6822]

I grew up with the old round pots which are still produced today. The company is called Coat d'arms, based here in the UK & they made the range for citadel back in the 80's & still use the same round pots today as they did back then. I just recently bought an entire set of paints from them as an urge to return to the brushes was too strong & the need to paint minis after 30 years away was something that was needed to fill covid down time & all my old citadel paints from way back then were just about pooped so had to invest in some new ones.

[@Gunnlaugr11]

At least those pots were more user friendly than when I started in 99/2000, where you just had a hexagonal screw-top. Those things dried up so quickly.

[@bigkahoonaburger7303]

Nostalgia makes me say A is the best, i miss the vibrancy of the old models and that glowing green goblin made me smile 😃

[@L3ttuc3]

Agreed. It just looked like it belonged on a game board, where the other looked like a display piece. Both good, but A was the one that made me want to play a game for some reason

[@Drashia08]

the struggle of opening those bottles. Omg memories

[@tomc7874]

Those paints are so nostalgic! Brings back lots of memories

[@Lodorn]

Great Video, as always! My first Citadel Paints were those with the screw-on tops.

[@THOMSY01]

I am still using the old paints (20 years old). And only the other week I had Skull White unopened. Opened it, and it is perfect. I did have a few that had totaly dired up. A couple are thick but still good once you add some water. Most seem to be no change.

[@borisketou3177]

Humbrol, Heller, Testors, Tamiya... back in second part of 70's.

[@tomasdavidsson9274]

First models was painted with Humbrol oiled based but Humbrol Fantasy waterbased was released a few months after

[@jubble]

That was really interesting. I think that the standard of painting has improved massively over the last 30 years in general across the Hobby. What was fascinating was how similar the miniature painted with the old paints looks to the goblin wolf riders I've got from 30 years ago. It's that goblin green/ bilious green combo!

[@WillSpengler]

The old round and hex bottle paints were manufactured in the UK by a company called HMG. They also manufacture Coat d'Arms and P3 :)

[@YeAuldGrump]

The Coat d'Arms paints are the old Citadel colors rebranded.

[@nicholassinnett2958]

Also the same manufacturer behind the Foundry paint line. P3 and Foundry were both designed by veteran GW staff members (Mike McVey for P3, Brian Ansell for Foundry), so they use the same basic formula as these old GW paints. P3 at least seems to have stronger pigments on average though.

[@pentacosttb2565]

@@YeAuldGrump yeah, I was hoping this would show a comparison with Coat D'Arms paints too. Would be interesting to see how accurate they are, and how they hold up compared to modern paints.

[@javrel420]

I still have these paints! all paint I got later dried out, these pots from the 90s, still good! using the goblin green right now :)

[@grizzlyblackpowder1960]

Gonna make a prediction that they look pretty similar. Most painters can make almost any paint work when they need to. And I believe that motivation and adaptation to new products is truly the key to success when I comes to minis.

[@GoonerB44]

still using the hexagonal pots - have almost every colour, some of them must be over 25 years old! Using thinners works well on those that have gone a bit gloopy and the agitator with a couple of ball bearing in is a must. Both miniatures look great by the way.

[@Ynffy]

Målade med de gamla "rundlocken". Helt okej för sin tid och de överlever länge. Hexagonerna är av en senare tillverkare och är skräp. De gamla rundlocksfärgerna säljs visst fortfarande av Coat D'arms under eget namn.

[@matiasfrosterus447]

If you are wondering whether your experience with the paints was due to them being so old or if the recipe itself is to blame, you could test Coat'd'Arms which are made in the same factory using the same recipes as the original Citadel paints (the hexagonal bottles that Mike McVey designed the colours for - the original round bottles also came from the same factory but the colours were different). I still use a lot of the old hexagonal bottles and haven't had the troubles you had but mine have been in constant use for almost 30 years now...

[@jandssales]

I saved almost two/thirds of my large collection of RalPartha paints. I rigged a clamp to a reciprocal saw and mixed them fast. Those paints are over 20 years old. I am happy to have them back. Such memories.

[@tristanellis-mascoll1171]

Oh paints of the first generation (the round ones), well they were out of stock before I came into contact with them. But the second generation (hexagonal pots with white top) are pretty durable compared to others citadel made since then. There is a small trick to keep them in better shape for longer period of time: Scratch out the ring of dried colour from the lid! Then it closes better and airtight again (also is easier to open). The colours that seperate are probably thinned to make them useable after mistreated storage (like without removing the dried colour for a long period of time) Since I use my second generation ones even today, and they do not seperate on my wet palette, except those that I thinned (or rescued). The set you showed in the video was the fourth generation of pots, where you could open the lid without removing it. The third had to be removed. To prevent those from drying out you need to put sealing ring into the lid to make it close airtight. (I got to understand this 20 years after wasting my 3rd edition paint set, the big one) Sadly you had none of the skull white and chaos black in mint condition of that time. Especially the white was the most covering white I had ever had. (one layer and it even coverd over black!)

[@TGBloke]

I'm not certain this was a fair comparison as these paints were 30 years old. If you want a modern comparison, try the Coat of Arms (Cote d'Arms) paints instead. Those are as close as you can get to those original round bottle paints (including the actual colors) - they're my favorite paints for them (except metallic paints - those you can get better elsewhere - Vallejo and P3 in particular).

[@victorjl]

I think Coat d'Arms still manufactured the P3 bottles, at least until recently AFAIK.

[@TGBloke]

@@victorjl I believe they still do, yes. Though admittedly it's been a while since I bought anything from them.

[@sylthaya7571]

All the comparisons I’ve seen coat d arms aren’t as vibrant

[@davidpepin3017]

I'm used to watching your videos and painting. I've been painting almost every day for the last month now (should finish today!) At least 3/4 of my paint bottles are these old citadel ones hehe Just need to clean up the cover to keep them air tight. Also, I dont have any problem with the paint separating and I sometimes let them sit overnight in my armypainter wet palette. Thank you for the video!

[@superspecky4eyes]

Man, I remember those little pots well.

[@joseangelcorrales6047]

I still own and use 20-15 year old citadels. Some are pretty unusable now. But others are my go to option still today. Gore red, sunburst yellow, Ice blue. Sometimes I still use the Citadel Foundation for basing astronomical grey, necron abyss, orkhide shade, and gretchin Green amongst others. I have switched to Vallejo, but that does not stop me going back to basics. Btw both wolf rider minis look awsome.

[@Warghoul]

I have all of those old paints, and they still work

[@MDM242]

There is an English company which still makes the original Citadel paints rebranded as Cote d'Arms paints. You can even find a list of the name conversions online.

[@bigjuicyR6]

last time i was this early, the emperor was still alive

[@daniel.likes.sharks]

HERESY

[@sirdragon6860]

Which one ?

[@Mad.player]

He is still alive. Brother Hans, get ze prometheumverfer.

[@custodianguard749]

@@Mad.player well, i mean he's called the corpse emperor for a reason.

[@Hepabytes]

Too soon

[@DarioPattarini]

Found the video about the second Graal. Sadly it cannot be done a comparison with the two ranges at their best, because the hues seem a lot better for the olds. I started with the Humbrol Enamels, 44 years ago (I was 7 y.o.), painting Subbuteo teams and later Tamiya bikes models

[@Xn7000]

I agree with the posters that are saying that your issues are more based on the actual age of the paint rather than the paint recipe. All of my semi-modern GW paints have that issue (1st gen round top pots), it's just because they're old.

[@MicheleApicella123]

The old exagonal pots were eternal, all my exagonals still works

[@harazhangf5782]

1 ) 4:33 That's how mine looked like too in 2000ish, it brought back happy memories seeing them. I threw the last one some weeks ago iirc, it had clumped too much to be usable anymore. 2) Really interesting video, I really enjoyed watching it. 3) You are the first one I know who is criticizing Army Painter's paints. Why ??? (If I may ask.)

[@oliverwithers9736]

The old paints are nice and are nostalgic and they work great if you are doing a retro paint job on the old models however it’s undeniable that compared to the new citadel paints there is very little contest which is good because it shows us how far we have come.

[@AllSeeing_I]

The best paints to me were when i started in the screw off caps in the short hexagon containers. A few years ago i actually found a set on ebay for all of them for $26. Unused! About 10 of them were dried to a rubber and not salvageable. A lot of the others i had to reactivate which was easy. Some you can reactivate with rubbing alcohol or hot water and others with acetone. It was worth it as a lot of those classic colors done exist anymore. Bleached bone, snakebite leather, tin bitz, etc… even though coat d’ arms makes most if not all of those colors which can be found on the citadel paint conversion chart. They dont make the “inks” anymore

[@daniel.likes.sharks]

I started back in the days with these black screw tops "bottles" and I can confirm that they dry out completly. couldn't bring them back to life. now that I'm a couple month in again I got a good deal on the full range of vallejo game color. and for some reason I haven't figuered out yet the brighter greens do the same as these old ones in your video.

[@Tom_-]

The screw top bolter shell style pots were the worst thing to happen to Warhammer

[@LandofMert76]

I miss Charadon Granite. those old pots look like P3. Those black capped paints from when you started, were the best

[@ScooterinAB]

Ah, the old hex bottles. Those were around when I started, but I mostly painted with Testor paints (shiver).

[@muldivite]

I’m sooo jealous of you getting those paints!!, I like the paint colors of the old paints better.

[@mattcurr9931]

check out Warcolours - Nostalgia 88 paints

[@isaacixtupe8983]

I love the logo of the old paints...

[@chrisaman982]

I still have a couple of pots of early 90s paint that are still good. Contrast that with their current paints which are clumpy and dry out after a few years.

[@ericpoole7114]

I’ve still got the original round pots that came 9 to a set (except the metallic set which only had 6). Less than a handful have died, but most are surprisingly still good paints (though some needed laborious mixing). Though it can occur, I’ve not yet had quite the same separation issues with my paints, but then I use a homemade wet palette so maybe that’s what’s different. I also like to thin with medium thinner instead of water, so that could also be a factor.

[@andygourlay8787]

Great video man, really enjoying your content. I've only returned to the hobby relatively recently (just under two years). Back in the day (early-mid 90s) I used to use my dad's old air-fix style enamel paints - I remember being horrified at how bad my minis looked compared to my friends who were using citadel... in hindsight, maybe that was simply because they were better painters than me.

[@user-md2bb2vg3h]

b was my favorite... i started with Vallejos and have ejoyed their airbrush ready line.... keep up the good work.. i enjoyed the video

[@cjanquart]

Looks like Squidmar picked a bad week to stop sniffing vintage Citadel paint. I've been re-bottling old Citadel and Ral Partha paint into dropper bottles, as they're 20+ years old. Sadly the Ral Partha paint didn't survive the march of time well (the screw on caps were nice but you had to be incredibly careful closing. I didn't have the hex-bottles you received from your friend but those you had as a kid were garbage and dried out quick because the caps sucked.

[@HistoritorJimaldus]

My old citadel hex-bottle paints are still good after 20+ years, with no separation issues!

[@simonleach6632]

I grew up using humbrol enamel paints, and I still love them, some of them are tins that my dad bought before I was born, and they are still just as good now, seriously, crack the lid off, give 'em a stir and off you go! They last better than anything else, the finish is super durable, the Matt ones dry super flat, the gloss ones go smooth and glassy and the satin ones dry similarly to modern acrylics. Admittedly I only really use them for weathering now because modern acrylic paints are more convenient and less....smelly and potentially damaging to your health....but for weathering, enamels are head and shoulders above acrylics, the long-ish drying time and re-activatable nature of enamels makes them so much more versatile and forgiving than acrylics, for me they're an essential. Try diluting these down for washes and you will never go back to acrylic washes, enamel ones are so much more forgiving, they flow better, they're more precise, and they can be blended to give way smoother transitions than their acrylic counterparts like the citadel or army painter offerings. If you do try enamels out, just do yourself a favour and wear a mask or work outside if the weather is nice because the smell can be pretty potent!

[@MrDLYouTube]

You need to get a Badger Paint Mixer, it will save all your paints where the pigment has separated. Or even a Vortex mixer.

[@verpine3534]

I started painting with the Citadel round bottles like Squidmar used in this video, then the hex bottles. I remember when Games Workshop switched to the clear plastic 'boltgun bottles' Squidmar started with, and I hated them. The lids weren't airtight, and if paint got on the threads of the bottle top, you could never get the lids to screw down properly, making the evaporation even worse. I still have some unopened old-old bottles of Citadel paints, inks & glazes in my paint collection. Now I'm curious if those bottles will have the separation issues Squidmar had, or if the fact that they are unopened will make a difference.

[@mrheisenberg83]

nice cinematography!

[@sirterarin2922]

As stated elsewhere, the old Citadel paints were produced by HMG, which does Cote d'Arms. The reason you made the P3 connection is because P3 is also made by HMG.

[@Skumgummiii]

I started painting with the screw cap citadel paints back in like 1998(?)

[@SquidmarMiniatures]

Same as me!

[@Skumgummiii]

@@SquidmarMiniatures I mean, painted is a generous term. Was more close to dipping....

[@SonsOfLorgar]

You have my condoleances

[@barryslemmings31]

I add a 6mm stainless steel ball bearing to all my paint pots to act as an agitator, like the ball in a 'rattle can' of spray paint. I also add a drop of acrylic thinner to each pot after use to allow for evaporation. As a result I have some pots that I have owned for 30 years. Some are DBI in glass jars. Barry

[@bobby9time2010]

one thing bro we never watered paint down or used wet pallet back then it was strait from pot

[@digitaldeviltry]

Yep, wet brush straight into the pot lid. Adjust on edge of water cup.

[@bitzbox]

Proper nostalgia! Shame about them separating though!

[@TheStarbase01]

I think I ended up preferring The old paint one. I think that is because you gave it a more saturated color scheme. And I’m a sucker for a bright paint job. Thank for the post Emil watching your videos makes COVID a little easier.

[@kirkbrownell1556]

Weird, my old paints don't have that separation issue. Lots of hex pots and a few rounds. Even some of the late 90s hard plastic caps and dropper cap gw inks with the white bullet screw on top. still working fine and flow perfectly.

[@cyagen9782]

I used the Ral Partha paints, they were still usable when I threw them away when I moved some years ago. I like A better, but I like the cartoony vibrant color scheme of the 90s a lot. Would be interesting to compare them to the actual Coat of Arm, to see if they evolved and solve some of the problems. And by the way, the Army painter washes are up there with the Citadelle one, they are better than the Vallejos ones. And why are you talking them down? They are Danish, so half Swedish ;)

[@Zych.Grzegorz]

>Boltgun Metal Now that's a real treasure right there.

[@kevingarlick4617]

The contrast on the old paints looks really cool. It looks like an old 90s cartoon. The new one still wins out though. Better all around painting, like you said

[@Edzewkurai]

i wonder if the paint separating was due to the wet pallet. i don't use a wet pallet and i have the same era of paints and don't have that problem. also the hexagon pots if you keep stirring and add a drop of water into it you can usually bring it back to life... as long as its not completely dried up. The screw on top pots citadel did after those older pots were horrible! they were smaller so held less paint and they would dry up very quickly, in just a few months not to mention they also got rid of their metallics and thats when i moved to Vallejo paints

[@petercolson2990]

The round pots are the oldest ones, from the late 80s and very early 90s The hexagonal pots came about with the release of 2nd ed. 40K, and were a mixed bag in terms of quality even at time of release. But at least they still had a rubber lid that would USUALLY form a decent seal. Then GW switched to a screw top that had paints drying out shockingly quickly, followed by an only marginally better solid plastic flip top. THen they started experimenting with different pigment levels and medium levels etc. to remove a lot of the work of 'watering down' paints for specific techniques or building up layers to a smooth finish I gave up on Citadel Paints when I purchased an Age of Sigmar Starter Paint Set to replace all the late 90s/2000s paints I had that dried out on me when my back was turned for five minutes, and these shrink-wrapped starter set paints were half of them dried in the damn box. Just got sick of dealing with that crap, haven't bought any citadel other than spray for undercoating since, Vallejo at least functions reliably every time I open the pot

[@petercolson2990]

Bot those late 80s pots? Still got 'em, still function, still brilliant colours. That's what people remember from the old paints. The further back you go, the more reliable the paint gets

[@michaelstefanou7744]

I started in 1994, I remember using those paints. The lid was a fucking nightmare.

[@oscarbrandin]

I started with Humbrol enamel paints. After that I swiched to Humbrols acrylic paints. Picked up my first Citadel paints 89.

[@SquidmarMiniatures]

Ooold school

[@oscarbrandin]

@@SquidmarMiniatures And then some. ;-)

[@grud8495]

The color vibrancy on the old paints is a million times better compared to the new ones. Which is exactly why I have decided to transition to other painting brands, with more options and better color vibrancy. The old paints are faaaar from perfect, but you have to give them one thing. they POP out from a mile away and immediately catch your eye.

[@SquidmarMiniatures]

Vallejo game colour is my go to for vibrant colours :)

[@CullodenPaintingStudio]

I still use paints out of the old hexagon pots that must be close to 25 years old. It just never dried out, unlike many GW paints since then which seem to have a much reduced shelf life. Vermin Fur, Deadly Nightshade, Enchanted Blue, Shadow Grey, Mithril Silver and Shining Gold are on my desk right now! Vallejo Game Colour and Coat d'arms have very similar or identical colours which has made replacing paints over the years to match models painted decades ago really easy. I won't go spending big bucks to get unopened bottles of OG Citadel stuff as many modern ranges do indeed cover better too.

[@hightde13]

I would like to second trying coat de arms paint. still my favorite colored metalics

[@mrbeast85]

You can actually still buy the original Citadel line of paints from a company called Coat D'arms in the UK. Basically its a long story but Coat D'arms actually were the original manufacturer for Citadel/Games Workshop. IIRC after a disagreement and some legal wrangling, Coat D'arms were dropped from Citadel, but due to copyright they took the paint formula with them. So Citadel had to source a new paint supplier (this became period when Citadel paints really sucked in those horrible screw top bottles). Coat D'arms on the other hand got to still market and sell the original paint range, just they couldn't use the Citadel paint names, but its not hard to find out what the equivalents are...

[@shadowknght22]

I actually likes the paint job with the old plants but thats more in the artist then the tools. However I wished the second model was all new citadel paints if all the old ones was citadel. But great video Video recommendation I would love to see a skin tone video where u use off colors like red purple maybe green to widen the prospective of painting skin

[@ennuii4]

Yes, they were, and the containers were 1000x better. However the current technical paints and contrast paints allow for beginners to have nicely painted armies easily. Which is also good.

[@Mikey__R]

If I was airbrushing paints from the 90s, I'd DEFINITELY be wearing a respirator! Safety standards have come a long way in the last couple of decades, you don't know what's in those paints. Cadmium, probably.

[@SquidmarMiniatures]

Good point, they do say non toxic though

[@Mikey__R]

@@SquidmarMiniatures they're not toxic if you eat some, based on what we knew about what was toxic 25 years ago. Remember, no-one was airbrushing back then!

[@Mikey__R]

@theboldbear yeah, if anyone knows it would be Brent. Personally, I would say that if the ingredients were never published back then, then there's no reason for GW (or their manufacturer, probably Coat d'Arms) to release them 25 years later. And that's even if they have records of the ingredients going back that far. Then you'll likely find ingredients lists changed over time, so as well as finding the records, you'd need to know when each pot was made and find the exact record of that year and month. There might be emperical ways to easily test for heavy metals in paints. I don't know what they might be though. I think, it's just easier to assume anything red, orange or yellow has cadmium in it, and anything blue has cobalt.

[@dosmatrix4470]

I have citadel paints from circa 1990 and they are still going strong including the original inks. New games workshop unopened paints from 2 years hard and dry and unusable. Scale colour, Vallejo from 4 years ago all in perfect condition. Ak and mig no worries and just bought first batch of Ak 3rd gen.

[@willthorson4543]

Bolt gun metal is awesome. I still use it. Great for weld seams and tank road wheels and track edges.

[@jamesperrin3762]

use a brush handle to help pry the lids off

[@wildtony79]

Scary that I have a bunch of these hexagonal pots which have never been opened. I wonder how good the paint inside is these days?

[@mephisto40]

I remember spilling the purple ink I got in one of the citadel starter sets from back when these were a thing all over my bedroom, my parents went crazy 😂

[@SonsOfLorgar]

I like the latest gen paints, but I'd want them in the old hexagonal white rubber capped bottles or properly sealing dropper bottles, and bottles full to actual capacity at that, not just 30~60%... I also really want the old 90ies inks, some of the old coloured metallics esp glistening green, (the 90ies gold paint was liquid shit though) and some of the washes esp flesh wash. One later paint I really want back is mechrite red.

[@Lorkynn]

I like the A Paints a bit more, simply because it is more vibrant.

[@Crivicus]

The old paints weren't designed to be used on a wet pallet. Water has a large effect on them, even water on the brush for the paints back then could affect the paint job.

[@yanhunt]

They may not be better paints right now, but in 6 months when the new paints have dried up, and the old ones still useable.... Have a pot of yellow from '86 when i first started and it's still useable

[@AZombieDude83]

I like the old paints coz the colours were more vibrant and vivid but I totally understand that modern paint cover much better .....you can get the same pop with modern paint so I would go for that these days ......btw I got into the hobby in the mid 90’s 1995/1996 maybe In the hobby maybe 23 years, the hexagon pots you had there are the ones I started with some real nostalgia with those paints I agree the smelly is so distinct .... have you tried using them with out the wet palette as it could be that too much water is getting into the paint..... nice vid enjoyed it

[@GentleGiantDK]

Oh no no no no, Emil, you're going about it the entirely wrong way! Here are a few tips: 1) Use a bottle opener (the old, classic, flat ones) to open the lid of the pots with. Something like this: www.klaremont.com/Images/Product/Default/xlarge/54821.JPG Just put it under the lid (not the tab, the lid itself), with the paint bottle held firmly on the table, and open it up. 2) Don't use a wet palette. Put a bit of paint on an ordinary palette, just like Duncan Rhodes used to do in his painting tutorials, and thin it a bit with water from the brush. It's being over-saturated with water on the wet palette. Just a few tips from someone whose first GW paints were the round bottles in the video (as those were the only GW paints available).

[@funoff3207]

I had a feeling it was the wet palette causing the separation

[@cartouchator]

When I started panting (15 years ago ?) I was using a little bundle of tiny little pots of generic no brand name acrylic paints that came with 12 colours, and that was the entire range. I had found it in a local toy shop. It came with one silver one gold, white black, one red blue yellow, one single flesh colour, and purple orange green so flashy it was like neon colours, kinda like the colour from highlighter pens. I remember I was very proud of my neon Tyranids at the time 😂 Then a guy in a games workshop store told me I should apply an "ink" to my figures to give them contrast, so I used ink from a fountain pen cartridge mixed with water and poured it onto my figure and proceeded to ruin it completely 😂 I didn't realise that with ink he meant a wash and had no idea washes existed back then.

[@RavenSaint1]

I miss the older miniature glues and the older citadel paints. You have to layer the heck of some of the newer ones to get enough saturation. The newer glues couldn't hold an older metal dragon together when it broke during a move. The upper portion kept tipping off even after the glue fully cured for a week while clamped and held in position. I finally had to use some apoxy and a small pin to get it to stay together. It looked horrible after the apoxy dried. I couldn't get the newer paints to match the same colors from older paints. It now sits behind the army it is part of on the shelf to distract from the ugly mid section's apoxy and newer paint repairs. The newer miniatures that are painted with the newer paints look fine though. Still have to layer the colors to get good saturation for some colors still.

[@TheTricksterLukas]

Have never quite understood the nostalgia for the old hexagon bottle paints - true, they were a step up from painting with enamels, but they were so thin! Try building up a solid coat with the old sunburst yellow or tentacle pink. Ironically, I suspect that this is the reason that they last so long. Not a touch on the acrylics ranges available today, from Citadel or elsewhere.

[@TimothyLemon1237]

sounds good

[@andresu83]

I start painting with the old and trusty Humbrol enamel. I still have 100+ colores.

[@abelrocha8812]

Been watching your videos for a couple of months now and can't help but notice your desk. Where did you get your organizers from? I'm sure you've answered it before, TIA