Are Oneness Pentecostals Modalists? | Episode 183

[@neldaheadley9514]

Thanks, Dr. Bernard for teaching the oneness of God.

[@awillingvessel238]

God is one and his name is Jesus

[@LarzGustafsson]

Zechariah 14:9.

[@gregkirby]

What about Yahweh?

[@ranaldpaul]

​@@gregkirbyYahweh in OT is Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the God of Moses. Jesus Christ is more than Son of God. See you have a separate Yahweh God other than Jesus Christ. If not you don't ask this question ⁉️

[@gregkirby]

@@ranaldpaul I agree that Jesus is God the Son. But He was given that name at his birth by His Father in heaven. Yahweh is the name of the Triune God. Meaning self existent one. Jesus means yahwehs salvation

[@compositesquare]

​@@gregkirby "But He was given that name at his birth by His Father in heaven. Yahweh is the name of the Triune God. Meaning self existent one. Jesus means yahwehs salvation." Joel 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD(self existent one) shall be delivered(saved): for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call. Acts 2:21And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Actz 2:38¶Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, Acts 19:5 ¶When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Clearly the "self existent one's" name is Lord Jesus Christ. Lord means Adonai - meaning LORD, self existent one.

[@angieayala4374]

I feel grateful to have come to the truth.

[@tweekthaklown5713]

"And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be ONE Lord, and his name ONE." Zechariah14:9

[@pastorenocramirez]

Thank you for that explanation.

[@jerryscott5545]

Wonderful teaching Bishop!! 👍🏾👏🏾🔥😇

[@germanwulf40]

Yeah, I can't count how many times I've had it said to me, and I quote: "That sounds like the heresy of modalism". Seriously, those EXACT words get repeated by so many people as if it's taught as a talking point, rather than the person thinking for themselves. And the conversation pretty much does end after that is said, as the trinitarian does indeed lose interest in genuinely listening to anything I have to say after that. In fact, every trinitarian that I've debated, sooner or later after this point in the conversation, begins behaving very un-Christian like by resorting to sarcasms and condescension. So much for being loving toward everyone and attempting to bring all into what they believe is biblical truth. No wonder so many atheists view Christianity as a convert-or-else theology; trinitarians give them a reason! But getting to the topic at hand, let me put it another way. I am three things to my son: I'm his guardian/protector, I'm his father, and yes, I'm also his friend. Sometimes I can be more than just one of these at once when I relate to him, other times I need to take on the duties of just one role in a moment. However, I am NOT a trinity of persons, nor am I one person switching between different modes. The man that I am when I'm playing games with my son and being his friend is the same man that I am when I'm disciplining him or teaching him about life matters as his father. I, my son's father, and I, my son's friend, are one in the same with no distinction of persons. Furthermore, the man whom my son knows as "Dad" when I'm playing with him and being his friend is the exact same man whom my son knows as "Dad" when I'm being primarily a father. He doesn't see two different personalities, modes, metaphorical masks, etc.; he still sees the same, singular person that I am. So it is with God. He is the same God as the Father that He is as the Son or the Holy Spirit; He isn't switching metaphorical masks before changing duties. Also, the fact that he operates in multiple capacities doesn't mean there is a distinction of persons or a plurality of consciousnesses between those capacities.

[@realmccoy124]

Hi @germanwulf40 … we have talked… and I think you have even said that I haven’t behaved ‘un-Christian’ towards you. If I have - then - as God forgives… forgive me, a sinner. You have been intelligent and courteous … not everyone on this channel behaves like you… that say they ascribe to teachings of UPCI organization and other Oneness groups…. When you reach to a conclusion … that sounds like modalism… and someone says, “that sounds like modalism…” it’s not that they are programmed to say that… no more than OP folks shutting down an articulate Trinitarian argument…. It’s much easier to misrepresent the teachings… which abounds here… than to examine what is presented. Since I walked in Oneness Pentecostalism for 25 years, I know not only the Oneness teachings… I also know very well the culture of the UPCI organization. It’s one thing to present a position… and to argue that point… but, most folks here do not adequately address the points they present. In otherwise words, they haven’t thoroughly studied their theology and soteriology … I love it when they tell me that I am ‘godless’…. Haha. Truth is - I fell in love with Jesus Christ along time ago. I said I would follow Him unto all Truth… I’m not in love with a doctrine… but the person of Jesus Christ. He is not part of God… He is the One revealed to us in the Flesh… Just as 1 Tim 3:16 so perfectly tells us… even though the English translation is much weaker than the Greek. I am not taking Christ God away from anyone. I am not telling folks they’re godless…. I have spoken much stronger terms with certain people who don’t seem to be respectful….calling me a liar, untruthful, etc… (when I say, I didn’t see what they had said… and when I told them that what they’re saying I ‘said’ wasn’t what I had said….). Be encouraged! Lovingly, Cuthbert.

[@germanwulf40]

@@realmccoy124 Yes, we've spoken; often enough that your screen name comes to mind most times when I view these videos. I must say, I have respect for you as well. As I've said before, I don't see any point to you and I debating our difference, as we both stand pretty firm in what we believe, but it's apparent that you know how to not let that and that alone color your opinion about a person as a whole. And in the end, despite our differences in theological beliefs, we're still brothers in Christ. Something tells me that you and I would get along rather well, were we to know one another in person.

[@davidbrock4104]

If you believe that God operates as Father, Son and Holy Spirit at the same time, expressing thoughts one for the other and to the the other, as at the baptism of Jesus, then you are very close to believing what Trinitarians believe. In Acts 4, the disciples pray to God, asking that signs and wonders be done in the name of "they holy child Jesus" (KJV) indicating that they were praying to the Father in the name of his son, Jesus. I have heard no Apostolic pray like this ever, anywhere. If someone did pray in this fashion, they would be branded a Trinitarian.

[@davidcoleman5860]

@@germanwulf40 I've interacted with "McCoy" several times. Although he presents himself, at least initially, in a respectful manner, he has consistently "disappeared" when I ask him for specifics on his brand of Trinitarianism. When I recently asked him why he did that, he denied doing so and claimed that he never got any notification of my replies. When I stated that he indeed replied to previous posts and only disappeared when I asked him specific questions, he deleted the thread! The differences between Oneness and Trinity are definitely not semantic (not saying that you're saying that). The doctrine of the Trinity is false because it either logically extends to tritheism or composition---both of which are ultimately atheistic.

[@davidcoleman5860]

@@davidbrock4104 I've been a Oneness Pentecostal for over 40 years, and I can say that I've definitely heard prayers along that line. If there's been any reluctance to pray in that manner, it's definitely not theological. It's more of an attempt to express the revealed truth of Jesus' ultimate identity. Yes, He is the Son as to redemption, but His ultimate identity is God.

[@WayneChurchill-zd3pm]

Thank you blessings to all

[@charlesarmstrong3749]

Great teaching Bishop

[@SebastienRioux-w2g]

Very well said.

[@GunNut37086]

I'm thankful the only judgement I need to be concerned with is that from my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. So, if my fellow Christians choose to label me a cultist, a modalist, or anything else, it won't affect my relationship with Jesus.

[@derrickpurdy7011]

Exactly

[@Azariah.928]

Revelation 4:2 🙏🔥8:00 tetrullian came up with the concept of the trinity around 150 to 200 ad give or take and it was added to and defined differently at the Nicene creed where the Catholic Church began,,what Did Martin Luther really do with his treatise if the Catholic Church is just as strong and deceptively powerful as ever?

[@mt9567]

Thank You! If we try to use only Biblical definitions/words/phrases, then we should avoid the usage of multiple 'persons' and/or multiple 'modes'. Multiple 'persons' imply separation within/inside the Godhead. Multiple 'modes' imply multiple changes of the Godhead. So instead, if we substitute the word 'persons' or 'modes' with Biblical words like revelation, expression, and manifestation we have a more accurate concept. It's more Biblical to say...... 1. The Spirit of the one God has REVEALED himself to his creation in three ways. 2. The Spirit of the one God has EXPRESSED himself to his creation in three ways. 3. The Spirit of the one God has MANIFESTED himself to his creation in three ways. To be more accurate, the Spirit of the one God reveals, expresses, and manifests himself throughout the entire Bible in many (perhaps countless) ways. Starting with the "I Am" and ending with "Jesus the Christ". As a Jew might say...... "The Torah isn't just words ABOUT God...... The Torah... IS... God".

[@compositesquare]

1Corinthians 12: 6 And there are """diversities""" of operations, but it is the """same God""" which worketh all in all.

[@bretmavrick-ph2ip]

@@compositesquare 🙏♥️🙏♥️🙏♥️👍👍

[@compositesquare]

​@@bretmavrick-ph2ip Amen friend. Matthew 12:50 😊❤

[@pklemets]

Well said ❤ it

[@recoveredcalvinist]

Isaiah 9:6 (NKJV): 6 For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Pretty simple!

[@DayalanG-p4i]

But Jesus said in John 10:30 says, "I and the Father are one" Look at the verb in plural "are" Two person in one

[@recoveredcalvinist]

@@DayalanG-p4i God is not a person. God is spirit. JOHN 4:24 “God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.

[@zekdom]

Time-stamp 10:30 - Interesting 11:22 - Clarification

[@derrickpurdy7011]

I like to think of Oneness as the belief of who God is, while the Trinity is an attempt to understand the revelation of God in the NT. Trinitarians are not inherently wrong, they are trying to understand, but their limitation is they are tangled up in the word person. If they would open their minds to this fact, I believe they would benefit greatly from Oneness truth. Sadly, I'm not naive enough to think any of them will.

[@davidcoleman5860]

Of course Trinitarians are inherently wrong because the doctrine of the Trinity, in all its iterations, entails logical contradictions. Since all contradictions are false, the doctrine of the Trinity is false.

[@Elias_Eliyahu]

Please, make a teaching about physical exercise... Thanks you

[@michaelwittkopp3379]

God revealed not only in Jesus the Christ, and the New Testament, but revealed throughout the Old Testament. Even as early as Genesis 1:2; - _"And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."_ The immanent and transcendent nature of God is revealed throughout the whole of the Bible. It only became a confrontational issue, when we Gentiles got involved. Our _"goyishkeit"_ is in the way of true understanding. Ps. Thank you for making this video. I did not even know that there was a thing called Modalism, or what it was. Now I know more.

[@Elias_Eliyahu]

Thank you

[@BlessingDachom]

It's quite clear

[@bretmavrick-ph2ip]

Bro, Bernard,,,,,what happened to the human nature of Jesus after the Resurrection 🤔🤔🤔

[@jairusbarrero4640]

1 Corinthians 15:42-48 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

[@bretmavrick-ph2ip]

@@jairusbarrero4640 great thought process,,,thnx,,,iron sharpens iron,,,,,I've always wondered of Jesus humanity nature

[@JohnMChew]

Jesus has a glorified body. Something far beyond our human understanding. He walked thru a door like a Ghost yet he still has his body so Thomas could see the scars from the crucifixion.

[@bretmavrick-ph2ip]

@@JohnMChew I believe the watchers Angels in Enoch's day must had the same abilities to seduce and impregnate human women.

[@ldubb2013]

@RuslanKD @thebeatagp, you both have referenced modalism in videos when referring to oneness Pentecostals. It would be helpful to hear a biblical argument from an actual Oneness scholar like David Bernard instead of people who are just popular like Marcus Rodgers.

[@jackiet5334]

Most importantly, God reveals Himself in the way He wishes through His Word. So there's that. However, scholars, authors and students will continue to rattle the elect with 'labels'. This podcast does not defend the Oneness doctrine for me. It just compounds more confusion. I personally always find the triune Godhead more compatible as I read and study, and can't be swayed by 'labels' that others accuse trinitarians, or modalists, or Praxeans, or Sabellians of....these are all men. It proves that men will disagree and that God allows it. I think that these competitive arguments prove, again, that men are more interested on being 'right' than leading the flock on the right path. Just because regular saints in Christ might not have the credentials of a world-renowned author of the churches, doesn't mean he/she is ignorant and undiscerning. The Word will reveal itself to the humble and hungry. Let God be true. I am so thankful that Jesus reconciled us to the Father and that He is in control, knows who He is, and there will be many things revealed to us when we see Him. God is a mystery, and there is no shame in admitting that we know so little.

[@realmccoy124]

We love to mention Tertullian - a 2nd CE apologist with his ‘Trinitas’… But we fail to mention that he died outside of the Church as a Montanist.

[@Post-Trib]

Either way, he was a heretic. Same with Roman Catholicism and all trinitarians

[@dscottplays4700]

He was a reflection of thought at the time, regardless.

[@Christiskinglaw]

Speaks in itself for the Trinity if he started the concept and rejected it later

[@Christiskinglaw]

Tertullian said persona not persons. No one believed 3 distinct equal persons at that time

[@realmccoy124]

@@Christiskinglaw - it speaks of how by our own free will remove ourselves from the True Faith by creating our own way and establishing our own enmity between ourselves and God… and be none-the-wiser …. If there be any enmity between ourselves and God… it is by our own actions … not by God.

[@Elias_Eliyahu]

Someone can help me about physical exercise?

[@realmccoy124]

‘We don’t know what these modalists believe’ … This doctrine, labeled *Sabellianism* surfaces multiple times in Church History… and was dealt with by different Bishops across multiple jurisdictions and by Church Councils … There were different movements that embraced this teaching at different times. So, it’s not like we have one person speaking against Praxis alone. We have great theologians addressing why the teaching attributed to Bishop Sabellius… we also aren’t limited to a single period of time where this doctrine is present. Dr Bernard seems to fail in bringing that into his discussion here. There are many commentaries and homilies preserved and of course those Councils that had very, very, detailed notes why Sabellianism was rejected as heresy… just as Biship Arius’ teaching was deemed incompatible with Apostolic doctrine delivered once… and preserved over the years.

[@natevenarske]

@@realmccoy124 his books go into detail that he can’t get into in a super short podcast like this. I’d like to stress that at the time of the development of the trinity, in the 2nd century, the majority of believers held to “modalistic” or modalistic-adjacent views that affirmed the full deity of Jesus but denied the trinity. I don’t get the hubris of claiming a clearly developed doctrine is orthodox and claiming the doctrine that existed before that is heretical. We should be more peaceful here, recognizing that the nature of God is wonderfully complex and that there is room for disagreement about the details as long as we recognize that Jesus is God and there’s only one God.

[@AtheismDefeated]

@@realmccoy124 Are you failing to recognize that Bernard stated instead of using Church History as the standard we should go to scripture and scripture alone, don’t you agree?

[@Post-Trib]

Roman Catholicism is pagan and man-made doctrine. They worship idols and Mary as queen of heaven.

[@dscottplays4700]

you can't use the writings of anyone's opponents to show what someone believed. If we are going to follow that, then everything Hippolytus said regarding Zephyrinus and Callistus was truth.

[@realmccoy124]

@@dscottplays4700 - the Councils addressed this in quorum as inconsistent with Apostolic doctrine … what was wrong with Bishop Sabellius’ teachings? Pretty sure, those Councils were acceptable when we are talking about Bishop Arius…

[@OneLord1Faith1Baptism]

I studied this. And if you do an extremely deep dive as far as a data mining you will find the people that teach about modalism say in their findings that they do not even know the doctrine of Modalism because it’s so old. They don’t even know what modalist’s believed or taught. They created modalism because David Bernard destroyed the Trinity doctrine through debate. They even tag-teamed him to try to go against. Didn’t work so then later they came up with this modalsim defense. Tell them to hold up their Trinity to Acts 2:38 and Eph. 4:5 in judgment. Trinity is false doctrine.

[@realmccoy124]

The invented the Modalism… because Dr Bernard destroyed…. Really, did I read you correctly? Unless Dr Bernard is re-incarnated… and pretty much what Dr Bernard says in this video alone… that this term is an 18th or 19th CE term…. And I checked my calendar… we are in the 21st CE…. And … “it’s so old…” is funny too, because your deep mining you said you did… would have uncovered countless articles that explain why the Modalist’s construct of God …. Was rejected. I just see fluffy fluff statements here…

[@cas9954]

True

[@lukewagner8871]

John 17:23 KJVS I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. The above scripture points to the nature of the Godhead. Which is very similar to the Tabernacle in the wilderness and Herrod Temple. God and Christ when they interact with a human, they do it by their Spirit. When Satan entered Judas, he did it by the spirit. That did not mean that Satan is two persons.

[@IGNATIUS914]

Can you please do a teaching on the Unitarian doctrine what they really believe and teach and how different its from the Oneness and thanks

[@apowave]

Unitarians deny the deity of Jesus

[@seanvann1747]

So is God is His own Father?

[@davidcoleman5860]

No. Nobody has ever said that He is.

[@seanvann1747]

@@davidcoleman5860If God is the same person as Jesus then logically He is His own Father.... Is Jesus the Father?

[@davidcoleman5860]

@@seanvann1747 You write: _If God is the same person as Jesus then logically He is His own Father...._ No, that isn't "logical" at all because you're misrepresenting the doctrine. You either don't understand Oneness or you're deliberately attempting to frame it in a manner that appears absurd. "Father" is a relational term with respect to creation and/or offspring. The human nature of Jesus was created or caused to be by God, so it is the human nature that has its origin in God; it's never God having His origin in God because God doesn't have an origin. He is _a se,_ which means that He exists in Himself.

[@seanvann1747]

@@davidcoleman5860 No my logic is sound. The Father is relational to the Son however He is only relational with Himself since He is both Father and the Son. Watch. Is Jesus the Father?

[@davidcoleman5860]

@@seanvann1747 No, it isn't logical at all because logic actually addresses the argument and doesn't misrepresent it. When you say that God is the father of God, you misrepresent what we teach. You may disagree with it as the day is long, but that's not the same thing as re-wording what we teach. Again, God doesn't have an origin, so it is incorrect to say that God is the father of God. For example, if you're the head of a corporation (president) and you create an accounting division which is headed by the chief accountant, we would rightly say that the office of the chief accountant was created by the president. But if Sean were both the president and the chief accountant, we wouldn't say that Sean created Sean. Sean is ontologically prior to both the president and the chief accountant. Similarly, God is ontologically prior to creation and, thus, ontologically prior to relational modes. The term "Son" refers to the human nature of Jesus. That's what has an origin and, hence, a father. You're deliberately misrepresenting our position (it's deliberate now that you've been told otherwise) because you're incapable to addressing what we actually teach. That's an obvious indicator that you're not arguing in good faith. I'm not interested in having discussions with bad-faith interlocutors, so consider this my last post to you.

[@jasonsanders3930]

I tried calling you today to discuss something since you said to call your office. The receptionist is blocking my calls for some reason.

[@compositesquare]

The Father's name is Jesus. Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father. Acts 19:5¶When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

[@bretmavrick-ph2ip]

I've studied the Mystery Oneness of The Godhead almost 25 yrs Now,,,, Paul said it's Great Mystery in 1Tim,3:16😮,,,Acts,2:38 PROOVES this Mystery Oneness,,,Obey Acts, 2:38 from your ❤heart and receive deeper understanding from The Holy Ghost❤Elohim,=A Plurality of Majesty, Yet only One God,,,,You Trinitarians sadly Prooves your hypocrisy 😢 While professing your Full Trust in Jesus n his Name,,,,but Reject Acts, 2:38, that is hypocrite 😢😢😢

[@compositesquare]

Acts 2:38 the name Jesus Christ is the same name of the LORD in Joel 2:32.

[@joelsimental7356]

I know trinitarians that baptize in the name of the Lord Jesus as well so you assuming all trinitarians that don’t do it is very unintelligent and bearing false witness. Also, obey the gospel of Jesus Christ. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4! Acts 2:37 doesn’t say what must we do to be saved but acts 16:30-31 that question is asked and answered.

[@compositesquare]

@@joelsimental7356 "Also, obey the gospel of Jesus Christ. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4! Acts 2:37 doesn't say what must we do to be saved but acts 16:30-31 that question is asked and answered." That's all water baptism and Spiritual baptism scriptures to be saved. You need to read those Joel.

[@bretmavrick-ph2ip]

@@joelsimental7356 friend, All scripture, by Every Word, true, in Acts,10:44-48 got holy ghost B4 baptism, but Peter still commanded it, Paul rebaptized john,3:16 believers in Acts, 19:1-7, MK,16:16 commands it, Rom,8:9 n Jn,3:5 says No entry without water n spirit as same, Jn, 4:24, QUESTION,???,,,was Acts,2:38 baptism from Heaven,,, or from man,???🙏One Lord One Faith One Baptism, eph, 4:5,,, Apostles said anyone or even an Angel change it, they are accursed😪

[@compositesquare]

@@joelsimental7356 "1 Corinthians 15:1-4! Acts 2:37 doesn't say what must we do to be saved but acts 16:30-31 that question is asked and answered." These scriptures are all water baptism and Spiritual baptism to be saved. I think you miss read them friend.

[@euston2216]

10:13 - "One of them quoted, 'The Father is *_NOT_* the Son. The Father is _IN_ the Son...'" If Dr. Bernard agrees with the quote - and it appears he does - then Dr. Bernard is in error. REVELATION 22:16 (KJV) *I Jesus* have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. *I am the root AND the offspring of David,* and the bright and morning star. Jesus IS the _root_ of David - that is, the Father. Jesus IS the _offspring_ of David - that is, the Son. If the Father is NOT the Son (as Dr. Bernard apparently believes), then the root of David is NOT the offspring of David - that is, Jesus is NOT Jesus. ------------------------------- *The Father,* revealed in true human form, *IS the Son.* *The root of David,* revealed in true human form, *IS the offspring of David.* *Jesus,* revealed in true human form, *IS Jesus.* RE---VE---LA---TION.

[@jackiet5334]

Near the end of this podcast Dr. Bernard's quotes: "I do not use the label, because I think it leads to misunderstanding and I want to be evaluated on our teaching of scripture; let's discuss scripture and let's decide what the Bible teaches." So if Dr. Bernard wishes not to be labeled as a modalist, or does not want the UPCI to be labeled as such, why does the UPCI and it's members try to label Trinitarians? It would seem they love to 'label' us. How many comments from OP here accuse those who hold a trinitarian view of believing in 3 gods, or in praying to 3 gods or being stubborn or refusing to be enlightened; or teachings on how to witness to a trinitarian'? Isn't there a podcast with this title? Isn't that labeling? Most sincere Christians on both sides just view themselves as Bible-believing Christians. Most don't live their existence thinking..."I'm a (insert doctrine) and so thankful I have the truth, praise God, not like those others"...... If the UPCI does not want to be labeled and doesn't want to be misunderstood, but evaluated on it's teaching of what the bible teaches, that is fine, but then why can't they also stop misunderstanding and labeling trinitarians, and treat them the same way they want to be treated.

[@valmossop3523]

That’s the trouble with studying doctrines as a distinct conversation we identify our beliefs using labels. Unfortunately, to understand Oneness theology leads into how one is baptized which is important. Falling in love with Jesus and obeying him is my life’s goal.

[@recoveredcalvinist]

2:50-3:15 addresses your concerns.

[@Azariah.928]

Because most Trinitarians not only attack oneness Christian’s but they call us blasphemers and even condemn us to hell..,I spent 12 years with a Trinitarian church and they all completely cut me off and consider me to be a lost soul instead of taking the time to listen to why I look at God as one now and not three,,I’ve tried to reach out and too even ask for conversations every single trinitarian denys me and ridicules me so you tell me who here is showing the love and humility of Christ to have a sit down convo like Paul told us he told us to have convos without devouring one another but every trinitarian is attacking me is that Christlike behavior even towards those who oppose? Did Jesus oppose nicodemus when he came to him in secret even tho his entire following of the Pharisees were attacking Jesus and his disciples so who do we follow modern day trinitarians or the apostles and Christ?

[@recoveredcalvinist]

@@Azariah.928 Brother, you are describing what happened to my wife when she was convinced of the nonsense of the Reformed, Calvinistic, church. You would have thought we were back at the Salem Witch Trials. It is a pitiful thing, when people can’t see what is plain! Post Tenebras Lux!

[@Azariah.928]

@@recoveredcalvinist crazy how they attack and belittle you right? My mom is actually a part of the ministry I once faithfully served in as of recent I been talking more about the oneness of God and come to find out people are saying I have a strange fire and whatever yet they never speak on the Word themselves their main focus is the building of the physical church rather then building each individual in the body pretty nuts if you think about it if it were the love of Christ don’t we love even those who oppose as He did? Or who do these movements really follow is my question

[@josephjones4207]

Can you discuss the nicene creed

[@Post-Trib]

Modalism is a strawman argument

[@SpeeAD]

Facts

[@richleeduke1023]

Those of you who criticizing Pentecostal, some of you are still in blind position of what the Apostle Paul was before he got the full revelation of who Jesus is.

[@realmccoy124]

He didn’t know that Jesus Christ was God revealed to us in the Flesh… He was taught by a bishop that after being knocked down from his horse. I believe that Jesus Christ is fully God… who without corruption took on our nature, fully human… that we may become gods by Grace by partaking in the Divine Nature. He is not a part of God. He is very God, of very God… True Light of True Light. He is NOT just a good man… He is not a created being, like an angel… He is not just a man imbued with the Spirit of God. This is the Dogma of the Trinity. This is Orthodoxy. This is precisely what is said in EVERY Divine Liturgy… and in EVERY Prayer Rule… What Oneness Pentecostals says in the ‘trinity’ - is completely outside of the Church’s understanding of Christ her God. So, I am not criticizing ‘Pentecostal’… I am critiquing a falsehood, a misrepresentation…. Trust you are well.

[@realmccoy124]

Beware of a singing bishop in Northern Africa who teaches sailors theological songs that alter the Faith to propagate strange winds of doctrines across the seven seas… this wasn’t Bishop Sabellius… rather, it was Bishop Arius. Both bishops were rejected by Council. JWs and OP folk generally reject those councils (until their fancy is suited by them)… I would dismiss the Councils too if they called out my erroneous teachings and I was too proud to repent from my evil ways….

[@recoveredcalvinist]

Sola Scriptura!

[@gregkirby]

You can't read Roman's chapter 8 without a clear distinction between father, son, and spirit

[@derrickpurdy7011]

What distinction do we need to know that Jesus is God? The reality is you place the limitation on yourself, there is no limitation inherent in God's revelation of Himself. If He has revealed it, it may be understood. Perhaps not for you, but we really can't speak to that.

[@gregkirby]

@@derrickpurdy7011 I'm speaking of the clear distinction of roles that each person performs in the work of salvation.

[@derrickpurdy7011]

@@gregkirby Yes, I know. That is why you made your original claim.

[@gregkirby]

@@derrickpurdy7011 That God is Triune in Nature. That is my claim based on scripture

[@revamp6612]

@@gregkirbyis the Father a Spirit???

[@michealferrell1677]

Subsistences

[@aaronabeytia]

The short answer is no, Oneness Pentecostals are not modalists. God is an omnipresent spirit who robed himself in flesh. His name is Jesus!

[@realmccoy124]

Check out the Official doctrinal statement of the UPCI on the Belief Page about God… that’s the long answer. You say the ‘robed himself in flesh’ … The organization states: God revealed himself as Father [in creation], manifests himself as the Son in Redemption, and presents himself as the Host Ghost as an emanation. This is taken from the UPCI Statement of Belief… word I added are in square brackets … This is modalism - as it was defined 100 to 200 years before McAlister preached at the Brush Arbor meetings…

[@aaronabeytia]

@ Wrong. "Modalism," at least as many trinitarians claim, is the belief that sometimes God is the father, sometimes he's the son, and sometimes he's the spirit, but not simultaneously. The fact of the matter is, the trinity is a heretical, pagan creation of Rome, hundreds of years after the Apostles were dead. The Bible speaks nothing about one god in three persons, or three persons in one god. You can play word games, but it all amounts to heresy. Jews, and even Muslims for that matter, rightfully reject "christianity" when it comes in the heretical trinitarian form. You'd be shocked how many of them experience a revelation similar to Paul, when they're given the truth of Jesus Christ!

[@realmccoy124]

@@aaronabeytia - Hi Aaron. Define sometimes… Was the Omnipresent Spirit always robed in flesh? Or did he change to become the Son… and is the Holy Ghost a force that emanates from the Spirit … Pretty sure historically the organization has taught the godhead in modes. You could argue whether or not the Logos was always Flesh to counter. But for some reason, and I was among the lot, you all fail to see the Pater. Logos. Hagion Pneuma… The Church has always taught and continues to teach - Father Son Holy Spirit - One in Essence… AND Undivided … what you present as the trinity - is a complete and utter misrepresentation of the dogma … it isn’t anywhere close to the doctrine. Just like the JW, they have scriptures too … just like you have… and. I am not Roman in my theology or soteriology. Even Rome has deviated from the Faith. Trust you are well. Cuthbert.

[@aaronabeytia]

@ I can't speak for every UPCI church, but I've been a member for over 25 years. The concept of modes has never been taught -- neither by name, nor by principle. The fact is, God is a Spirit, who robed himself in flesh as the man Christ Jesus. He is our father, as flesh and blood He became a son, and He is the Spirit that lives in us. He is omnipresent, without limitations. You and I don't cease to be a son when we become a father; God is even less limited than we are! Paul told Timothy, “And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory," (‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭3‬:‭16‬ ‭KJV‬‬). Yes, other groups can twist scriptures to form a doctrine, but that doesn't make it biblically sound!

[@abialalooby2079]

So if the oneness and trinitarians don’t believe in Modalism then why are we so divided. In all honesty this division has made me question my salvation and if I’ve ever believed in the right thing. I believe both camps are saved but I always get pushback for saying that.

[@derrickpurdy7011]

Essentially, it boils down to this and that group loves to label every group who disagrees with them. Be encouraged, brother, if you've repented, and you've been baptized, you ARE saved. Your salvation is not in question.

[@abialalooby2079]

@@derrickpurdy7011 thank you I’m trying it’s just been hard because I get attacked by both sides for associating with either side but they’ve both helped me love and appreciate God

[@derrickpurdy7011]

@@abialalooby2079 My pleasure, brother. Even if you get down, never question your salvation. You are saved, all you are is a blessing from God. If they don't want you, walk away. But you are saved. Do not let them tell you otherwise.

[@compositesquare]

"In all honesty this division has made me question my salvation." Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Acts 19:5¶When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

[@shawnhiltibidal]

Not one single Trinitarian I know believes that Jesus is not God in flesh. I have had UPC friends over the years that have told me Charismatics don't believe Jesus is God. That is simply not true.

[@natevenarske]

I agree-I think most trinitarians and most oneness believe essentially the same thing, just with semantics. Now, after a trinitarian has gone to seminary or deeply studied the subject, their understanding seems to change. It seems that Tertullian’s mockery of Christians who don’t believe the trinity as “the simple and unlearned who always constitute the majority of believers” holds true today.

[@AtheismDefeated]

@@shawnhiltibidal they most likely meant “Jesus is that One God” not one of many Gods, or a multiplicity of God’s but Jesus is the fullness of the Godhead Incarnate.

[@Post-Trib]

Trinitarians believe that another person aka the 2d person was manifest, but not the one and only true God. The trinity is pagan and man-made doctrine

[@KenWaites]

​@@natevenarskeI 100% agree I've been saying this for years They essentially saying the same thing,but differently.... They actually have more in common than what divides them

[@shawnhiltibidal]

@@Post-Trib every single Trinitarian, I know, believes that Jesus is Jehovah God in the flesh. I’ve been around charismatic churches, all of my life, and I’ve also been around UPC churches, all of my life. They believe that Jesus Christ of Nazareth is Lord. I’ve worked for Trinitarian pastors, and I’ve worked for UPC pastors. Both camps absolutely believe that Jesus is the only way of salvation, and that he is God in the flesh he is king of kings and lord of lords.

[@WayneChurchill-zd3pm]

Got add jesus is lord

[@ramonmaldonado5803]

Can any UPC explain this! Pay close attention to verse 28!! “24:Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25:For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26:The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27:For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28:Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.” ‭‭I Corinthians‬ ‭15‬:‭24‬-‭28‬ ‭NKJV‬‬ Ps. I don’t believe trinity either, not written just like oneness not written in scripture!

[@DavidKBernardUPCI]

Dr. Bernard addressed this passage of Scripture in Episode 116 | Will the Sonship of Jesus End? (kzbin.info/www/bejne/a3unoaukjbF9qrMsi=mUtLxsENzmfZnnEx). - Podcast Production Team

[@ramonmaldonado5803]

@@DavidKBernardUPCI I don’t believe he loses sonship, but what about this passage. “Then Jesus said to them, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing of Myself; but as My Father taught Me, I speak these things.” ‭‭John‬ ‭8‬:‭28‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

[@randylundgren8421]

I don't know how this fits in this discussion, but I see Jesus as the flesh and God as the Spirit. Just as we are flesh and spirit.

[@ramonmaldonado5803]

@@DavidKBernardUPCI yeah so I listened and that makes absolutely no sense I’m sorry my friend! Instead of just believing what it says that was grasping for stars!

[@ramonmaldonado5803]

@@DavidKBernardUPCI I’m sorry I even came to this channel and commented, forgive me!

[@realmccoy124]

This podcast channel speaks of *Problematic Verses* that explain away verses that support Trinitarian teachings… so - so much for ‘going back to the source - the Bible’ as the source because we’re changing the context of those problematic verses to conform to OP doctrine… just like the JWs with the problematic verses to their off shoot religion.

[@AtheismDefeated]

@@realmccoy124 can you quote one verse that requires ‘in it’s historical context’ a trinitarian interpretation?

[@realmccoy124]

@@AtheismDefeated - go back over this channel’s postings over the last year… you’ll get your answer.

[@grahamtopfuel]

"Multi State" view of God almighty. God is one omnipresent, omniscient spiritual person, but manifests in 3 different "states of being" as the Father (transcendent state), Son or Logos (immanent state), Holy Spirit (active state). ✝️ TRANSCENDENT STATE = not limited by time and space, and unknowable to us ✝️ IMMANENT STATE = is perceivable and present in time and space ✝️ ACTIVE STATE = God's active presence within us and in the cosmos

[@gregkirby]

Sounds like 3 separate persons to me

[@ranaldpaul]

Three separate person is the wrong word. Bible says I myself None like me. None beside me

[@gregkirby]

@@ranaldpaul not persons in the sense of bodily persons. But in the sense of personalities and volition.

[@gregkirby]

You can't read Roman's 8 and not see this.

[@ranaldpaul]

@@gregkirby that is exactly what I am saying, Jesus Christ has divine nature and humanity. But those are not two persons. Those are the natures of Jesus Christ. We humans has only one nature, humanity. Jesus Christ talk as Son of God and God in scripture.

[@veggieman357]

When Christ was baptized, the Holy Spirit ascended on Christ, and the Father spoke. Explain that...

[@AtheismDefeated]

What did the Voice say “this is my Son IN HIM [greek text] I am well pleased”. Matt 3:11 “It pleased the Father that IN HIM should all fullness dwell” Col 1:19 “IN HIM dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily” Col 2:9 “The Father dwells within me, he’s doing the works” John 14:10 The Father is literally in his Son, Jesus is not ANOTHER GOD, but that One God Incarnate.

[@natevenarske]

God is omnipresent and omnipotent. It isn’t like he’s wearing different “hats” and can only wear one at a time, he’s Father, Son, and Holy Spirit simultaneously.

[@AtheismDefeated]

@@natevenarske Absolutely

[@compositesquare]

​@@natevenarske "he's wearing different "hats"" 1Corinthians 12:6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

[@realmccoy124]

Different hats… different masks…. Hahaha. Sounds like modalism is alive and well with Nate and his friend who agrees with him.

[@realmccoy124]

Evidently, Dr Bernard has studied and agreed with Modalist teachings… trusting the source that preserved what Bishop Sabellius taught… Evidently, we can go back and find out what was objectionable to those who defended the faith from it.. and see if there are anything in our personalized teachings that align with those teachings… and at least hear the arguments against why it was considered not Apostolic … if the argument is sound…. Then, maybe we need to Un-personalize our teachings and conform to the teachings of the Church.

[@Divergent807]

2 John 1-7 says for many decievers have gone out into the world, refusing to confess the coming of Jesus christ in the flesh. Any such person is a deciever and antichrist??????

[@DayalanG-p4i]

Three Persons in One God

[@grahamtopfuel]

God is One Spiritual Person who has eternally manifested in 3 “STATES OF BEING” (referred to as manifestations in the bible). God is never described as 3 separate persons in the Bible. As God is spirit (John 4:24) we therefore only have one Omnipresent , all powerful Spirit who has the ability to reveal Himself in different ways throughout the Bible namely as the Father, the Son (Logos) and the Holy Spirit (Also as the Angel of the Lord, in Old Testament). If you say the father, Son and Holy Spirit are 3 separate spiritual persons (like in the Trinity Doctrine implies), then you have 3 Gods, which is Tritheism and this is not Biblical. It's very easy to understand. A) the Holy Spirit is just the Spirit of God not another spirit or person. B) the Son is just God in "Flesh", but the full Spirit of God lives within the body of Christ, so Christ is the same supreme spiritual person as God NOT another person. The bible is strictly Monotheistic and this means God is only ONE spiritual person. The Bible never ever says God is 3 persons. NOTE: Just because the Father, Son and Holy Spirit share the same Divine essence (Greek = Homoousios) DOES NOT make them One God. You and me both share the same “human essence” and “human nature”, but that does not make us one "human" This is a philosophical idea that was included into the early Roman Catholic Trinity Doctrine to address the key problem of the Trinity Model which states that God is 3 separate persons = 3 Gods = polytheism. GOD IS ONE BECAUSE HE IS ONE SPIRITUAL PERSON (strict monotheism), not because they share the same divine essence.

[@realmccoy124]

You misrepresent the Dogma of the Church misleading folks with your insertion of “3 Gods - which is tritheism”…. The Church has never taught this doctrine you present in your argument… as it is totally false. You state your refutation of the Holy Trinity - with your biased opinion. It’s pure conjecture to say ‘three states of being’ … rather than ‘three persons’ … and alters the Modalists position to a more palatable position - than to say Modes. The official doctrine of the UPCI and statement of the belief of God published on their page is the de facto definition for Modalism. God reveals himself as Father [in creation], and manifests himself as the Son in Redemption, and presents himself as the Holy Ghost by emanation. Unipersonal God changing forms / manifestations / modes of operation. This doesn’t stand in the Scripture. Sorry. Trust you’re well.

[@grahamtopfuel]

@realmccoy124 What dogma do you follow ?

[@realmccoy124]

Wait. Oneness Theology isn’t - One God who is the Father in Creation, Who manifests himself as the Son in Redemption.. and presents himself as the Holy Ghost in emanation… an abstract but perceptible thing that originates from a source… sounds exactly like the UPCI organization are by definition - Modalists - in their theology.

[@JivTurky1986]

You’re still trolling this channel?

[@OnlyTheScriptures]

Since Oneness depend on the book of Acts so much especially verse 2:38 why not believe the words of Peter in Acts 2:22 and 10:38? You know as well as I that Peter was given the keys by Jesus in Matthew 16 yet we find Peter in Acts or even Paul teaching Jesus is NOT God..Paul said Jesus is the son of God in 9:20

[@natevenarske]

@@OnlyTheScriptures in Oneness theology (and trinitarian theology for that matter), Jesus is truly God and truly human simultaneously. The verses you’re using say that Jesus is a man or that he is the Son of God, which we agree with. Those verses do not say that Jesus was “only a man” or anything to that effect, which you seem to be assuming.

[@OnlyTheScriptures]

@@natevenarske You are assuming God said he would one day become his own Messiah and that is not taught in the Bible at all.What is taught is that the promised seed would come from Abraham and David.Deut 18:18 Moses was told I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers. And I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him. Moses was human,Jesus said he was human and the apostle Peter preached that he ( Jesus)was a human.. some 90 times Jesus is identified as “ son of man” which clearly means a human being.How much more clear could they be? What I believe people mistake is they say Jesus has a dual nature and that sir is not human or is that taught in scripture either. Mr Bernard is famous for starting that confusion and people have bought into it.People simply mistake the anointing Jesus was given and call it deity:)

[@Jade-3000]

Oneness doesn’t depend solely on the book of acts? The whole Bible only ever says “one” or uses singular pronouns for God.

[@OnlyTheScriptures]

@@Jade-3000 You know it is the go to for salvation especially Acts 2:38.There are 37 other verses before verse 38 that gets ignored especially when it comes to verse 22. Listen to the man Peter who was given the keys and he used them for the first time talking about Jesus.Notice his words on what he told the crowd and especially notice the very end of the verse 22“ as you yourselves know” what did they know? They knew and understood God was responsible for all the miracles and He did it through the man Christ Jesus.Just as God departed the Red Sea through Moses he alone acted through his Christ and even gave the words for him to speak..Did not Jesus say “ the words I speak are not mine? Did he not say his doctrine was not his? Did he not say in Matthew 28 that all power was given to him? When we honor the son we honor the Father,that is when we honor the one sent we honor the one who sent him..God has always used others as agents throughout the OT so it should not be surprising to see him acting through his begotten son.Jesus came to make him known that is what prophets did also..they had the words of God given to them to speak on the behalf of God..

[@revamp6612]

🤦🏽‍♂️🤷🏽‍♂️🤣😂 oneness is all over scripture. Where you come up with it only being in acts?

[@Divergent807]

1 john 2-4 here's how you recognise the spirit of God: every spirit which acknowledges that yeshua the messiah came as a human being is from God! Here it clearly says Jesus came as a men!????????

[@therealawkwardpotato4823]

This man debated about this with James white and got all these statements and questions answered

[@revamp6612]

You mean James white got corrected?

[@therealawkwardpotato4823]

@ How so? Because the debate I saw was that Dr. White had a lot more scripture that backed up his claim and then Bernard and was able to refute Bernard’s claims by using scripture and Dr.White claims were more consistent with scripture than Dr.Bernard

[@revamp6612]

@@therealawkwardpotato4823 there are only 2 debates with them. Having a lot of scripture doesn’t mean you have a correct interpretation. Be more specific what parts are you referring too. I have paid attention to both. And in both Mr white seems to be irritated. Irritated he is getting his answers challenged.

[@realmccoy124]

Endless debates and doubtful disputations.

[@mrpshaithcock8845]

Really?... Who was Jesus' Father?... The "Father", right?... ...well, The HOLY GHOST impregnated the virgin Mary... not the Father. So, either Jesus NEVER spoke to The "Father" his whole ministry... ...or, he never spoke to The Holy Ghost (His Father) his whole ministry. Which is it? Ok, so now we have 2 people... Cause' Jesus ignored at least 1 (I'm assuming in your assessment)... Ok, so... now let's deal with this... To wit that GOD (Deuteronomy 6:4) was IN CHRIST reconciling the world unto HIMSELF. ...Ok, so....... what do we do with that. 1 sat on the throne. It was Jesus. (Sorry dad, my seat now.) I don't need many scriptures to prove the Trinity is false... ...and if you TRY to say "Well, Jesus said I go to my God, and your God!" ...so is Jesus not fully God?... Is the Holy Ghost or the Father higher than the "Eternal son" in rank?.... ..... ... .. . Right.

[@ranaldpaul]

Jesus Christ is THE only true God. Jesus Christ manifested in Flesh (Son of God) Jesus Christ revealed as Father. Jesus Christ revealed as holy Spirit Jesus Christ revealed as the word

[@realmccoy124]

A Jedi mind trick (swooshing of arm) “we are not the modalists you’re looking for…” funny the old school SFT Bible study published by PPH used terms like ‘modes’ in the teacher chart if my memory serves me right. The Father in Creation. The Son in Redemption. And the Holy Spirit in emancipation….

[@SouthernParson]

Following the "church fathers" instead of the writers of scripture goes directly against what God moved John in Revelation to write concerning not adding or taking away from scripture. Trinitarians have no doctrine if you only reference all scripture.

[@realmccoy124]

This isn’t true, SouthernParsons… The Church Fathers … the Apostolic Fathers… and all Christian theologians who lived their faith and obedience to Christ God… give us solid insights into how they believed … as the Church believed … across the entire Church Age…. Without that - you certainly do not have a ‘full counsel’ of God. The Scriptures are a product of Holy Tradition… they inform us the Faith…. But they even tell us - they are not the entire account. It’s laughable to me when I read your comment… “they have not doctrine” if you reference Scripture alone… then, tell me - why do I have daily readings of both Old and New Testaments… of the Gospels… and of the Apostolos? Sorry… I am pretty sure we have ‘doctrine’ inside the Scriptures too.

[@Jade-3000]

Edit: I think both the wording and “intellectual” obsession with theology is what confuses everyone. Trinitarians will believe the whole Bible then say “three persons in one” which doesn’t make any sense-and they’ll call everything else a heresy which shuts down any other arguement or opening for truth.

[@realmccoy124]

Oneness folks will say the word ‘Trinity’ isn’t found in the Bible… Well, newsflash, neither is the word Oneness. There are three that bear record… and the summation is that these three are one. Opening for Truth …. Well, I was an adherent to Oneness teachings for 25 years… and I left it behind because I discovered what folks were telling was ‘Truth’… and what was the ‘Trinity’ … wasn’t accurate. It’s one thing to present your teaching… but to intentionally misrepresent what another teaching states… is disingenuous. If you would actually bring an informed teaching with respect… I would listen to you… just as someone listened to me when I was unpacking the teachings of the UPCI when I left the organization.

[@Jade-3000]

@realmccoy124 you’re right and I apologize as I realize you’re not a monolith. I was only referring to the countless trinitarians I’ve personally met - and some of which I’m friends with and what they believe Edit: but really I stand by my position. I think the subject is being over complicated. It’s not a theological debate, it’s a revelation- which is mentioned in scripture. Matthew 16:17, 1 Timothy 3:16 And there is no “oneness” word in the Bible you are correct, but many many many times - God is only ever referred to as one, as a singular entity. That’s all. I’m obviously not trying to pick a fight or come off as disrespectful, for the longest time I thought we all believe the same thing but worded it differently.

[@Jade-3000]

@ last thing, because I honestly don’t want to be divided and I am going to pray for you-even if I only have your username. A testimony: my boyfriend was raised non denominational and he always believed in the trinity. He was baptized “in the name of the father, the son, and the Holy Spirit” he went to a non denominational church, and his friends were Methodist, Presbyterian, Lutheran etc who all believe the trinity. His whole life he thought he was filled with the Holy Spirit - but he didn’t know why he couldn’t speak in tongues, and didn’t see any miracles like the apostles did-his friends felt the same way. . . Long story short he himself (not I influencing him) started questioning his beliefs, started asking around at my church-why we believe what we believe. And he remained skeptical. . . Until recently he went to winds conference and prayed differently, wound up being filled with the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues - and was then baptized in the name of Jesus, came out of the water speaking in tongues. . . And after that he looked at me and said “I understand now, I get it now. I no longer believe in the trinity, there is only one God.” I’ve had my own FAIR share of issues not just in UPCI but as a Pentecostal, and I don’t want you to carry that hurt if you are. There are people who want what you had, who are hungry and zealous for God. And if I’m wrong I’ll be ready to repent and change. God bless.

[@discipleinlight]

As a Oneness Pentecostal I ask Bro Bernard if the Modalists were not the Oneness believers where and who are they? If they were not us.....we have no evidence of our doctrine in the early Church. I dont like the term Modalist....because of what the Tritheists have distorted it to be. The...concept of Modalism I do agree with. What I call the concept of Modalism I could as easily call the concept of "dual nature".

[@internautaoriginal9951]

Bernard is wrong about this. Modalism and Oneness are synonyms, he doesn’t have to be right in everyday he says.

[@discipleinlight]

@@internautaoriginal9951 Amen

[@revamp6612]

@@internautaoriginal9951according to what or who. We have always declared oneness, never modalism

[@revamp6612]

@@internautaoriginal9951who ever told you oneness is modalism???

[@cartelsy]

Jesus Christ is the Son of God . Jesus Christ has a Father!

[@REVNUMANEWBERN]

I DON'T understand WHY "Oneness" folk do not USE the scripture that clearly states "God is NOT a man" and where Jesus said "God IS Spirit" both IMHO says that God is NOT a person, and we know the scripture says God aka Father was IN Christ.

[@AtheismDefeated]

Because that’s out of context. Don’t you believe Jesus is the Almighty? John 20:28

[@compositesquare]

1 Timorhy 3:16 God was manifest in the flesh

[@natevenarske]

We do use those scriptures. We just also use more clear scriptures that make sense of those ones. There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus (1 Tim 2). While God is not a man, God was manifest in the flesh (1 Tim 3:16), and as such was the “express image of his [God the Father’s] person” (singular person) in Hebrews 1:3. The Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ are used interchangeably (Romans 8:9). Oneness people agree that God was in Christ-Jesus said the father dwelled in him, and Colossians 2:9 says the fullness of the Godhead (divine nature) bodily dwelled in Jesus.

[@compositesquare]

Numbers 23:19 is about God not being a liar as we are. God will do what he said he will do. Numbers 23:19 KJV - 19 God is not a man, that he should """lie;""" neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his """own""" image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

[@compositesquare]

Genesis 22:8¶And Abraham said, My son, God will provide """himself""" a lamb for a burnt offering: Phillipians 2:7 But made """himself""" of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord(Adonia - meaning LORD), to the glory of God the Father.

[@DayalanG-p4i]

But Jesus said in John 10:30 , "I and the Father are one". Please note the verb "are" which is in plural. Two persons Son and Father are in one God

[@realmccoy124]

We aren’t full on Modalists… We’re more like *Modalist Zero* - similar doctrinal taste, just with fake sweetener.

[@realmccoy124]

Dr Bernard speaks totally Trinitarian and close to the Dogma of the Church… and then diverts away from that hot potato and injects things that are NOT what the Church teaches… and then some of the weird nuances of modern day OP folks’ teachings. Makes me smile every single time.

[@AtheismDefeated]

@@realmccoy124 Can you name one unbiblical doctrine from what Bernard just stated in the Video?

[@dscottplays4700]

You've got it BAD against Oneness Pentecostals, but handwave a lot of things you don't like with "because Orthodoxy." We've had discussions before, and that's how it works.

[@realmccoy124]

@@dscottplays4700 - Hey D Scott - I don’t have it bad against OP teachings alone… I would say I that the Church has deemed it equally incongruous with Apostolic doctrine like Arianism(JWs) and Unitarianism. There are things that OP folks nail concerning the godhead… the Deity of Christ … God has revealed himself to us as being fully God … while assuming our nature without corruption becoming fully human… that we may become gods by grace… by putting on Christ fully…. There is a reason why Bishop Sabellius’ teachings were labeled as incorrect…. Just like Bishop Arius’ teachings were labeled incorrect. Just like the Gnostics were addressed…. And the Dontanist… and the whole lot of heterodoxy. The UPCI asserts itself as the Apostolic Church restored… restoration theology… they generally are against the spirit of ecumenism…. Well… the Orthodox Church is against ecumenism… but, unlike the modern day movement of OP … the Church has never fallen as the Restorationist assert. There is certainly a tension here. I don’t have to misrepresent the OP teachings and traditions of the organization… not once has OP folks commenting here.. nor DKB has accurately stated what the Dogma is… and it is in that misrepresentation … that I write to address.

[@revamp6612]

@@realmccoy124no! Me, Scott, and the other brother are all just making things up.🤣😂🤦🏽‍♂️

[@mebonweb578]

Triune, Trinity, Coequal, Coexistent, Consubstantial, Three Divine Persons is not what Moses taught. (It’s kind of nauseating) You think Moses would had used that terminology in the Pentateuch.

[@OnlyTheScriptures]

Romans 15:6 NKJV look real close that you may with one mind and one mouth --glorify -->the Godand Father Lord Jesus Christ

[@DayalanG-p4i]

Matthew 3:16-17 16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. 17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”. You can plainly see Trinity here. Jesus, God the Son baptized. Voice from heaven is voice of God the Father. and God the Holy Spirit descending like a dove.

[@realmccoy124]

*Unipersonal* existing in three (3) separate modes. *Modalism* defined in 3 different sources on the Internet… Different groups in Church history have embraced this doctrine… modern day and largest group holding this doctrinal distinction - UPCI … Jesus Only. Dr Bernard is right when he says that not all groups are exactly the same in all of their practices… but they certainly all agree in this view of the godhead.

[@DayalanG-p4i]

HOLY SPIRIT IS God and is a real PERSON and He is THIRD PERSON of Trinity. God the Holy Spirit was present as DOVE at BAPTISM of our Lord Jesus at Jordan river and It is God the HOLY SPIRIT who took Jesus Christ to desert to be tempted by devil immediately after His baptism.. Please read Mathew 4:1 "Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit (God the Holy Spirit) into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil." Who is this Spirit ? God the Holy Spirit leads Lord Jesusto desert.. Here you see two persons of one God..

[@veggieman357]

He is not making sense...

[@compositesquare]

Genesis 22:8¶And Abraham said, My son, God will provide """himself""" a lamb for a burnt offering: Phillipians 2:7 But made """himself""" of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

[@realmccoy124]

@@compositesquare - God spared Isaac the son whom Abraham loved by providing the sacrifice… But God did not spare His own Son - that we might become gods by Grace by fully putting on Christ.

[@compositesquare]

@@realmccoy124 "But God did not spare His own Son." Genesis 22:8 is Philippines 2:7. Exodus 3:8 And I(God) am come down(Genesis 22:8 is Philippians 2:7) to deliver(save) them. Joel 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered(saved): for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call. Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. Acts 19:5¶When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

[@compositesquare]

@@realmccoy124 Exodus 3:8 And I(God) am come down(Genesis 22:8 is Philippians 2:7) to deliver(save) them. Joel 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered(saved): for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call. Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. Acts 19:5¶When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

[@compositesquare]

@@realmccoy124 "that we might become gods by Grace by fully putting on Christ." Joel 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call. Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. Acts 19:5¶When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

[@derekbaker777]

The Bible says that Christ has the Spirit without measure, which makes him God, and it's an oxymoron to claim that there's multiple deities, which goes against Deuteronomy 6:4 Isaiah 9:6, 43:10-11, Revelation 1:8 & 4:2.

[@realmccoy124]

Dear Derek - not a single Trinitarian believes there are ‘multiple deities’ … this is purely conjecture OP folks make up. If anyone says separate … or divided… or split… this is not what the Church teaches… nor has she ever taught that notion of Christ her God.