Are Outdoor Finishes Useless? Refinishing My Patio Table.

FREE PLANS for The BASIC MOBILE WORKBENCH ►► basicmobileworkbench.com/
Two years ago I made a redwood patio table. It's a great table with a sturdy design. However, the Spar Urethane finish on it turned out to be horrible. In fact, a planter box I made four years ago with NO finish looks tons better. This week I refinished the whole table with deck stain. But is outdoor finish really necessary?
How to make the patio table ► • How to make a patio ta...
Here is the redwood deck stain I use► amzn.to/1YrLL5C
__
----------------
Equip your woodworking shop for under $1,000: theweekendwoodworker.com/tww-...
PATREON ► / wwmm
INSTAGRAM► / steveramsey_wwmm
----------------
MAILING ADDRESS:
WWMM
448 Ignacio Blvd. #237
Novato CA 94949
----------------
Woodworking for Mere Mortals® is a registered trademark of ZRAM Media, LLC.
#woodworking #powertools #WWMM
Category
Howto & Style
----------------
Music:
"Princess Meow-Meow's Theme", "A Hard Grain", and "Floating Panel" by Per Almered

[@simonmarcoux5879]

Hi Steve, since we're in lockdown, could you do a follow up on how durable that finish was (the 2nd time)

[@tombauer5762]

I'd be interested in this too. I'm going to use Steve's plans and make the same table. I think I might use teak to be safe. But that's going to be pricey.

[@samp-w7439]

+1

[@arfamortis1]

I made my garden table 20 years ago from Douglas fir, the only finish I've ever used is Linseed oil, it gets re-oiled every 2 years, never had any problems with it. The table stands straight on grass. I live up a mountain in France, we get 110 degrees in summer and 6 feet of snow, plus -10 in winter, the table takes it all.

[@minirampbonden7927]

god damn!

[@svantekvarnstrom]

Just hand this exact problem. Have washed and sanded the table, and was thinking about using linseed oil. After reading this comment I think I’ll go ahead and do it :) Thanks arfamortis1! :)

[@ScottiMacd]

thank you 👍👍 bonnie Scotland weather 🙈🙈

[@alexrosenthal2887]

@@minirampbonden7927 nom de dieu!

[@SpecificLove7]

great way to revisit an old project

[@thevolpstar18]

That table was one of my favorite projects you made, I'm glad to see it re-finished and given a second life. Thanks Steve!!

[@ialmeida2]

I'm very curious how is the Table looking today!? Its been a few years. Can you share your thoughts on how the Oil Based deck stain did? Thank you again I really enjoy your channel.

[@Dukefazon]

The time lapse drying shot was a great idea!

[@Reconbox1001]

All the trouble you had with the table can be used as a kind of teaching material. The sort of wood, the glue, first coat you gave it after making it.... and so on. It's great material. You are not afraid to admit to an error so we can learn from it. I think that is cool!

[@andreabirchard9110]

I love that you went back and made a video to fix your "mistakes"! I just watched your video on how to make the table and now I won't have to deal with the problems you came across 2 years later! if you have any other tips on other projects that didn't turn out how you wanted I would love to see "fix it" videos! its a great way for new wood workers like myself to learn!

[@MarceloFreitas70]

The table is very beautiful again with this new finishing. Thank you for sharing. Thanks to MicroJig and Casper for sponsoring the show.

[@girlspooptoo8567]

The table stayed wet because it was under the umbrella. That's why you got the mold on it. Thanks for the video

[@Sebastopolmark]

GREAT re-do Steve. I have used SuperDeck on several occasions and have not been disappointed. Once we get through this "cool down" it's going to be HOT next week so you can enjoy your table. Go Warriors!!

[@DomingoFreire]

Thank you for this video. I am so happy to listen you to say the truth about the brutal effect of the weather in the wood aplicated in exteriors. Thank you a lot Steve. Your channel is amazing. Excusa my bad english. Congratulations from Venezuela.

[@SteveRamsey]

I made this patio table just two years ago and the outdoor finish I applied failed. If you want lasting UV and water protection for outdoor furniture, your best bet is paint, but painted furniture isn't visually appealing to some people. An alternative is a coat of oil based deck stain. It's easy to apply to bare wood, but if you already have a different finish applied, you are in for a lot of work! I spent more than three hours sanding this table.

[@johnhajiandreou7111]

Great video once again. Really helpful including your sanding time in the description. I always thought it will be really helpful if you included info like time and money spend or even smaller details like screw sizes sheets of sandpaper and amount of paint especially in big projects . Thanks for the inspiration

[@shilohsharps]

According to the manufacturer: "Three oil formula contains deep penetrating tung oil for long lasting protection" Way better than any latex based clear finish as you found. Personally, unless it's paint, I hear "water based" or "water clean up" and I give that product a pass. My favorite finish is linseed oil and turpentine: looks great, smells great, and feels great (arthritic hands).

[@ragnkja]

Well, you _had to_ sand that table a lot in order to get rid of the mould.

[@therealandrewlund]

Your experience is just like mine; varathane or helmsman spar urethane is junk.. The water-based is horrible, and oil-based also fails miserably after 2-3 years. The penetrating deck stain is a much better option, and I've also found Vermont Natural Coatings PolyWhey works better than most oil-based products, with the benefit of smelling nice, being eco-friendly and super easy to apply (unaffiliated).

[@tradepaints3744]

I'd always recommend a deck or outdoor furniture stain pigmented with transparent oxide such as this. Stains like this fail by chalking away, so a thorough clean is all that's required. Coatings, water based or oil based, will fail by cracking and peeling, so sanding will be required if you let them get too old (and we all do).

[@egbluesuede1220]

thankfully I saw this before refinishing our patio table. Was thinking poly but will stick with deck stain to match our built in furniture. I touch that up annually, so I think this will look great.

[@sooth15]

I think part of the problem might be that it was a water based product. I've had nothing but poor results with the majority of the water based products that I've used. I tend to avoid them, but oil based varnishes and paints are already starting to disappear. My father varnished a set of garage doors with OIL based spar varnish, and 20 years later, they still look amazing. Oil based really makes a big difference.

[@maferraril1]

Hi Steve, happy fathers day, You should try to use car oil, yes it migth sound carzy but it works very find. Just aply old motor oil to the wood, let it dry and then clean with a wipe, it lasts for a long time and it is very easy to give mantinegsment just by apling another coat when it is damaged.

[@robotskirts]

Thanks for the update on this project and the new recommendations.

[@davidwostrel]

Really enjoyed this one, thanks!! You should do more like this where you talk about your experiences.

[@ScrapwoodCity]

That was a lot of sanding! It came out great in the end!

[@johnvanderhoof1248]

I saw your table build project for the first time a few days ago. I enjoyed the project very much. When I saw that you were using a urethane finish I knew there were going to problems. I had the bad learning experience or doing the same thing with a pressure treated lumber fence many years before. Oh boy. What I learned was that the finish can't breathe and move with the wood. So when I saw this video today, I was not surprised with your unhappy experience. I only use oil products for outside projects. Thanks Steve, great vid.

[@iamdarkyoshi]

Man, you seriously have the most happy and colorful patio I have ever seen. I want it. Also, I just noticed that the microjig ad shows a sawstop tablesaw. I guess you can't be too safe!

[@ltnthacker]

Nice refinish job. I'll be giving deck stain a try on my next outdoor project.

[@RumblestripDotNet]

We've had a Casper mattress for a couple years, and the only good thing I can say about it is that the company sponsor some KZbin channels and podcasts I enjoy.

[@hey_there]

I had the same thing happen with a bench I made and finished with spar urethane. Makes you wonder why it's even considered "outdoor" finish. Thanks for the video!

[@ShawnsterVideos]

Thank you! I also used that spar urethane. It flaked, peeled, and permitted mold, too.

[@violenttriangles]

This has been the most useful channel for getting me started. Well done.

[@WesleyAring]

I used the same redwood deck finish on my first outdoor project which was a bench. I purchased it from Osh. It's held up ever since :)

[@Butters204]

I have to refinish a couple outdoor projects this year. Canadian winters are harsh to outdoor furniture. Cool video Steve . Keep up the good work.

[@earlydawn81]

I just watched the build for this one. Beautiful table

[@facebuster14]

Honestly Steve I think it looks better than the day you finished it the first time.

[@ehudgavron9086]

Steve, you rock. Thanks for helping educate me and those of us who don't have your experience. Sometimes I wonder if you know I (and others) watch your September 2016 video (yikes!) and still learn something from this. I see the previous commenter, Simon, is/was in lockdown a month ago and he's curious. I'm going on the beginning of month 4... so I totally echo that. THANK YOU AGAIN for all you do. You're on my patreon channel. One day when I hit the jackpot, so will you. best regards from Tucson AZ. -Ehud

[@johnkelley9877]

It is a shame you had so much trouble with the finish but that red wood stain looks great. I think it looks better then the spar varnish finish. Thanks for the information. It is really helpful.

[@bigwoz78]

Entertaining and informative as always Steve, I really enjoyed your .....micro jig.

[@BeeRich33]

Purple bench made my morning.

[@allegory7638]

I had that exact same spar urethane failure, same brand, using their oil-based product. I'm now trying Thompson's Water Seal, so far so good.

[@julianoalberto]

I attended a lecture with a phd in finishing who currently works as a consultant for chemichal industries. According to him, the best finishing for outdoor projects is.....Microjig!....

[@causetherat308]

Thanks! This video was very helpful. I'm going to be making some home made watercolor paper board/stretchers. They need to be water tight. Was planning on using a poly based product. Looks like deck stain is the what I need.

[@bryanbrothers7503]

Hey Steve, It was awesome meeting you at VidCon. Thanks for the time.

[@annawillday4171]

hi steve i love your videos! they inspire me in my woodworking class!

[@coxsj]

Steve, I've watched your videos since the beginning. I really like your "woodworking for the rest of us" approach. It's been amazing to watch your journey from those early videos to the interesting and entertaining vids you are producing now. I used watch the New Yankee Workshop every chance I could and am a big fan of Norm. I think Norm would be impressed by what you have created. Congratulations! PS It's also great to see how nice the weather is in Marin. we left Richmond CA for Toronto a few years back and seeing your vids reminds me of many enjoyable outings to Marin County.

[@jan-roarbernhardsen7626]

The table become beautiful. Wish you a nice and good weekend

[@sushi6185]

Hey Steve, I really enjoy your videos. While procceding with my medival reenacment i slowly quite with the most modern coatings as they always seal everything but not perfectly, so mold and rotted wood is the result. All my old replicated furniture are only coated with linseed oil and it works perfect. I just mix it with a bit solvent to get the oil deep in the wood. After some years its easy to add some oil as the pores are not completly closed, a bit fine sanding and a new coat, also smells some better.

[@Snakeplisskin440]

I built some cedar window flower boxes. I coated them with three coats of boiled linseed oil. They held up nicely this year. Just gonna apply BLO every spring.

[@MrOramato]

I have a theory that some umbrella have fabric treatments that attack wood finishes. Also, many big box stores are selling lumber laden with mold spores. I had to reject two delivered loads from a yard, finally switching yards to get lumber free of mold spores. I expect my lumber to be free of rot, disease, and excess moisture.

[@davidfurr2480]

I built the same table and used the same finish. I thought it looked so good that I used it on a child's picnic table. And now too after one year the finish looks awful. I have just taken both my table's back in to strip them down. I think I will also use some type of deck stain to refinish mine. Thanks for the video.

[@degreyt1685]

thanks for the tip on the finish, I am about to build that table

[@stanborup673]

Thanks. You are one funny guy. Makes it fun to watch. Keep it up!

[@Blobjonblob]

Before you leave the bathroom done forget to wipe your...MicroJig....

[@ciepularys]

XD

[@migueldelacruz5054]

I'm laughing my MIcroJig out. lol!

[@TCrob]

Hey I resemble that statement

[@brykard7885]

I love your MicroJig and Casper commercials!

[@Canadiansasquatchbrewery]

This is interesting as I used WaterLox's Marine finish on one of my planters and in under a month, it started getting the mold/mildew issues, where as the one I made before it, without any finish, like yours, shows no signs of that. Houston, TX has been very wet this year, so it's interesting that the finished one gets the mold and mildew whilst unfinished doesn't. Great videos! Cheers!

[@xmnemonic]

I bought an outdoor IKEA patio table and chair set that was finished. Got mold in about a year exactly like your table. Seattle so lots of rain and cloudiness.

[@sjbl1962]

Looks good Steve.

[@nemocheerio]

I used MinWax Helmsman Spar Varnish on a 3/4" plywood deck for my small utility trailer and the same exact thing happened. The mold looked the same and of course the plywood started coming apart. I'm now redoing it by layering on canvas drop cloth saturated with latex house paint. Hopefully it will be more durable.

[@prakti1231]

I will for sure wear my microjig next time I go to the beach, thanks for the tip 😂

[@3PWorkshop]

Has it been that long since this table? This is great since I'm starting to try building outdoor stuff!

[@ShanaCali]

I have learned the most useful and information from your channel. It's hard to tackle all the projects but I surely want too.

[@MatthewBlackwell1015]

I really like this table design. Maybe one day when I have time (hah, I have young kids, so maybe in 30 years) I'll figure out how to downsize it to be like one of those standing bar tables (essentially a smaller top maybe 3' across, 4'-4.5' tall, and without the umbrella hole) for use as a table for my beer while I'm working the grill in the backyard.

[@wklatt4]

How's the redwood finish holding up now after 15 months?

[@SupraWes]

I see we have the same taste in pressure washers. It's been a good machine for me for 3 years or so now, no problems. Hope you have the same experience with it, it sure is handy!

[@MrLance931]

You should try sherwin Williams deck revive on the planter and see how well it brings the color back to the lumber.

[@nichpak1]

Awesome Job Steve

[@GregoryBeckmanMHAF]

love the deck stain look. such a better finish.

[@VedranBucko]

I method I learned from my uncle who learned it from a bunch of sailors is to soak the wood in a copper sulphate solution before applying any wood finish, this kills any mold spores and bacteria that can lead to the wood rotting sooner. They also used a solution of diesel, old engine oil and the red paint used on metal work to prevent rusting to paint the wood.

[@jessstuart7495]

I bought a spray can of this same spar urethane a few days ago to use on an outdoor project. Now having second thoughts.

[@Chlorate299]

That stain looks very smart Steve :) The California sunshine must be particularly hard on any outdoor finishes.

[@LessTalkMoreDelicious]

If I finish my wine barrel planters with boiled linseed oil, should I do the inside of the planters too? Will the linseed oil affect the plant/soil/roots?

[@villijs33321]

Nice job :) I always use for outdoor finishing all kind a wood oils and stains what soaks good in wood - everything hwat stays on top gonna come off...

[@ACollins1998]

Cool idea Steve!

[@ACollins1998]

Video*

[@DJ-fn3jm]

I think that's a better way to go as well. I also like to use either BLO or Tung Oil mixed with a little thinner. Film finishes like poly or paint don't feel good on the skin when they get a bit warm. I think they have a tacky or sticky feel. And when the film starts to peel (and it will) the whole thing needs to be stripped or sanded away. Oil or stain just needs to be washed, dried & re applied.

[@brian454454]

A couple of additional useful points on transparent deck stains. You're right they're a much easier product to reapply over the years than any film finish. (No peeling) One correction though, you should "not" put a 2nd coat on after it dries, or too soon over the years. The way they work is to soak in and "seal" the wood. If your wood is very thirsty and soaks up the first coat "very" quickly apply another lighter coat while still wet. If you let it dry and do a second coat it will sit on the surface and flake off because even if your wood may have soaked up a bit more while wet it won't after the first coat dries. On the same point, brush out any areas where it pools to avoid flaking also. Another bit of advice we give our customers is that if you spray or roll that's fine, but you really should back brush to work it into the wood better. It will last longer, this is true of solid color stains as well.

[@nickorsini2975]

How are you supposed to lightly sand between coats if you're supposed to re-coat just before the last coat dries? That seems like advice that goes against the basic rules of staining/sealing.

[@OneManBandWoodworks]

Great video Steve, I've had a great deal of success with Organoil outdoor furniture oil which is an Australian product that you might not have access to over there. My door is a year old now and looks exactly the same as when new

[@malcolmoxley1274]

wow,you are a clever lad,nicely done mate that table wow

[@yojandersosa9965]

Hi how you doing I been looking for video to see if I can use regular yellow pine for outdoor and havent had no luck so my question is can you use yellow pine for outdoor project

[@hizzleman123]

Love these videos! What kind of tape measure do you use with all the markings laid out?

[@jimmyjunior8039]

For anyone interested, this finish didn't hold up well either based on an update he posted a year later. It looked kinda rough and had some kind of residue that rubbed off when he touched it. Deck finish may be okay for decks, but doesn't seem like it's a good idea for a tabletop, or any furniture. I've been trying to figure out a good way to finish some outdoor cedar projects and now I'm totally stumped!

[@ogcidman911]

Your video intros are gold.

[@jhurley516]

steve I put a cedar ceiling in my shower... what would you recommend I use to protect it?

[@jakoball]

Nice outcome! I have a set of outdoor seats I'd like to renew one day. Do you ever have tinkling feeling in your fingers after using a sander?

[@MattTrevett]

Wow basically that lumber yard scammed you. Not cool

[@ScottBelleriWorkshop]

Great video, Steve! I made myself a patio table from your plans and it turned out great-that is, except for the finish. Lately I have been using Penofin for a close-to-the-wood, durable outdoor finish, and it looks great. You can get it without any pigment and it looks something like linseed oil. Ever worked with it?

[@lorencarey7161]

cleaned up nicely

[@IFIXCASTLES]

I used same finish on work table outside. black mold and peeling finish this year.table is exterior marine ply so I know will not rot out . I want a finish that will not allow wood to splinter. trying teak oil/ oil base spar varnish mixture. maybe some mineral oil added so deep penetration. if finish is crap next year I am using your solution.

[@MrStrizver]

Is there a difference between spar varnish and spar urethane? Would using the varnish give better results?

[@BradleyMakesThings]

I haven't used it by that Superdeck seems the be very highly regarded among pro's. I've recently tried Australian Timber Oil as well which I've heard is good. We'll see though - that project has only been out in the elements a few months.

[@springwoodcottage4248]

Spar (yacht varnish UK) attracts dark mould & looks ugly after a year on outdoor projects. I have been trying raw linseed oil, (not the boiled) this is currently lasting longer & it is easy to re-coat & is relatively inexpensive. Only concern is that it dries by exothermic oxidation that can cause the rags to ignite

[@TheOlsonOutfit]

I had the exact problem with that same spar finish on a pizza cutter handle. It's gross.

[@marcelodorio1]

Hi thanks for the video. I just did the same steps, sending and applying a coat of stain however, it feels really rough. I was hopping there is a way to buffer and make it smooth. Do you have any recommendations on that?

[@colgate2in11]

You're supposed to do a light sanding after applying a stain/oil/water based paint to fresh wood, as the grain is lifted as it soaks in, leaving a rough, raw surface.

[@fd3871]

thoughts on teak oil as an outdoor finish?

[@jjextinguisher]

Do you need to seal the table after staining with a sanding sealer or a poly?

[@MattDiresta]

great info! much love!

[@vochaalloy33]

The table looks awsome! you brought it back to life with the deck stain by the way what was the brand name of the deck stain that you used. Thank for the great videos.

[@GauchoWoodworking]

I love the brand Sikkens and use Cetol 1 for the first coat and Cetol 23 for 2nd and 3rd coat .... Illegal in California

[@Medickep]

Australian timber oil is so easy to use. Clean the furniture, and than wipe a new coat on after its dry. I used this product for a picnic table and some wine barrel chairs and it worked great!

[@TheRealTonyCastillo]

I used oil based paint on a lot of projects, Latex doesn't seem to last long from some observations I have seen over the years, i'm no painter by any means, but it will be interesting to see how it holds up over a few years. I have no experience with deck stains.

[@CHRISTISKING209]

Thanks. Good video my fellow Ramsey.

[@bigguix]

the glue seems to have held up nicely though. T3 if i remember correctly ? also, do you think the umbrella could be a part of the problem in the sense that it delays evaporation after rain (no direct sunlight) ? tyvm

[@harrycooper4969]

You should do a wwmm basics video on finishes [indoor and outdoor finishes] if you could that would b really good keep up the work

[@OdintheGermanShepherd]

@2:00 you said latex paint is best for outside wood….another video you said lacquer paint was best for outdoor wood…so which is it??????

[@SteveRamsey]

Lol I've never heard of lacquer paint

[@charliemathewson2339]

Steve, I was wondering because I didn't see you use a clear coat, would some kind of clear coat help the wood stand up to the weather and mold?

[@creativeCag]

2020 quarantine and I'm watching this. How about an update to the update?