Are Piggyback Tunes Safe For Your Engine and Is It Worth It?

[@HumbleMechanic]

The feeling of leaving the dyno with inconclusive data is awful. I do need some help from you guys. MK8 content seems to be tanking. What other videos can I make for you guys to help the community? I have the Cabrio with a couple more videos,. and the TT series. So if you are waiting for older VW stuff, its coming I promise. :)

[@FOFBASS1]

Definitely would love to see a complete rebuild on a 02 Jetta vr6

[@lianijohnston7468]

I'm all for the Cabrio action now. A guy I met at AVF gave me a ride in one and now I am hooked on finding one to have for myself. 😁

[@HumbleMechanic]

@@FOFBASS1 You wont get that exactly, but a TON of stuff on the black R32 will apply to that 02 jetta!

[@HumbleMechanic]

@@lianijohnston7468 YESSS!!!! We are putting coilovers on it next week.

[@tomafh]

Look, in current times the mk8 is expensive and it's looks are controversial. Most enthusiasts are looking back in time. Mk3-4-5-6-7. Maybe get back to the roots, hit some OG tuning points for mk3 and 4 since they're the most economical at the moment.

[@mattgatof4174]

Love the mkviii content. All your content is high quality and entertaining My thought on the low view numbers may be not many of us have a mkViii and those that do may not be ready to do mods on a car under warranty. The older cars just might be more relevant. Personally I love ALL your content keep it coming man.

[@HumbleMechanic]

Thanks dude!! Much apt

[@derrickmuilenburg8692]

All 800 of the MK8 R owners in the US are excited for this content, me included! MK7 is more mature, I think people will start paying more attention to MK8 stuff when the ECU gets cracked.

[@mikewhe0421]

@@HumbleMechanic As a VW dealer technician I agree with this is 100% I have one of the few mk8s out there and it is impossible to find quality content. Please don’t stop.

[@Deutscheautoparts]

Who wants a piggy back .....ride?

[@HumbleMechanic]

Im in!

[@Slowwagonftl]

Me 😏

[@mysteryman1610]

Me

[@michaelmorello3390]

You have to drive the car so it can calibrate the piggy back and understand what's going on. May take up to 10-20 miles of normal driving. I've had jb4 for over 5-6 years and I love it .

[@truckchris5315]

Glad to see some content for the JB4. I bought one for my 2014 1.8T Jetta. I then transferred to my 2019 Alltrack a couple years ago. I have over 50k miles on the same JB4. Map 1 or 2 with +4 or +5 psi I bet is much more noticeable (via butt dyno) on the 1.8. Yes, they aren’t a cheap option, but the flexibility to easily change map, make a custom map, and the logging feature to review what your boost/IAT/timing/fueling is doing during a run is what sold me. You can even transfer it to another car with the same engine or resell it which you can’t do with a tune.

[@PANN1Cau]

I think it comes down to whether you want to play the TD1 game with VAG or not. I used a jb4 until warranty ran out and then got a proper flash. But I also got a turbo replaced under warranty when I was using the jb4 and didn’t get flagged so that is something to consider with new cars if you don’t have a lot of extra cash to burn

[@DuelistWave]

very good point its not a tune just remove the unit before heading to the dealership

[@Hutchy86]

What was the cause of the turbo going?

[@Benjammin43]

@@Hutchy86probably the jb4 lol. I had one on my mk7 and wasn’t the biggest fan

[@cryptobangbang5532]

2 years later , anyone installed that jb4 on a golf r 2023/2024 ? If yes , how it goes.

[@Taayter]

As someone who has a MK8 GTI I love your MK8 content! That being said I would say that views might be tanking simply because the MK8 is so new Its not exactly easy to get one at this point with all of the shortages. I've had my MK8 for 7 months or so and I still have not seen a single other one out on the road yet.

[@oldkid6]

talk about a simple install, holy mackerel.keep up the great and honest content

[@supergoat94]

I was really looking forward to this video. Like I mentioned on an earlier video I have 20k+ miles on a JB4 on my 2016 S3. Luckily I have not experience any breaking up issues with it. However, when running one on a 2013 328 I would occasionally feel the car buck or hesitate when slamming onto the throttle. But when rolling onto the throttle it was fine. S3 has been solid though, at least in terms of feel, I've not taken it to an actual dyno yet.

[@doloresberry3144]

Loving the mk8 content! There definitely isn't a huge community around them like the 7 atm, but it's good to see the love.

[@HumbleMechanic]

I’m hoping it’s more long term play.

[@doloresberry3144]

@@HumbleMechanic I feel like that is the case. Considering it's so damn hard to find a mk8 atm, and everyone's still whining about the radio. Give it a year or two and they'll get the attention they deserve!

[@t4cot4ctical]

Hey man, I've been following you months while waiting for my mk8 to arrive, and I finally got it last weekend. Don't give up on mk8 content now, lol! Maybe do a couple vids based on what YOU want to see/do. A lot of us watch to see the cars through your eyes and learn what you learn, see what you see, etc. Regardless of what we think we want to see, this channel is special because of you. Be passionate and have fun, and we will want to watch! Good luck, and have a nice weekend. Hope to see you at Wookies next year.

[@HumbleMechanic]

Thank you!!! And congrats on the 8!!

[@lagerace227]

Been running the JB4 on my '17 R DSG for 3 years. With just a drop in K&N filter and 91 Oct MAP1 I've had no problems. Can be a little smoother in D eco mode. It's been a nice little bump in power while under warranty. I will be going with a Unitronic stage 1 with TCU tune as well. and sell the JB4

[@HumbleMechanic]

Nice!! every one I’ve talked to, that’s tuned, has weird performance in eco

[@nuy6n6nn]

I experimented with jb4 2 yrs ago or so and installed it on my mk7. I've had great success. The ability to customize for lower quality winter fuels and w/m is awesome. I was pretty pissed about the hidden costs like you were so I agree there. It really has it's own merits and subtractions. One thing you didn't mention is the ability to resell it which is a huge plus and the convenience of tuning yourself without going to a shop/tuner is big too. Anyway I wouldn't hesitate to recommend a jb4 under the right circumstances but like you I prefer a professional tune by one of the major companies.

[@NycMarty]

Do the jb4 allow you to do your own custom tuning on whatever car it's installed in ?

[@Night_keen]

@@NycMarty yes you can, I have and I stacked it with Stage 2 unitronic. It can work really good or not great. In my experience with my setup, it proved effective. But I have since gone through a couple turbos. Im moving onto a big turbo setup to try this combo with my overall STAGE 2 +JB4 FBO setup.

[@Incomudro1963]

I had a jb1 on my MK7, and the difference it made was huge.

[@alanburke76]

I’m not a tech or mechanic, but I too feel better with a proper ECM tune. Just seems smoother and more reliable and more predictable than these piggyback systems. But yeah, ECM tunes aren’t out for the mk8 so you’re stuck for now. I am impressed by those intake numbers! That’s wild and very cool. Plus I LOVE those dynamic center caps.

[@Blessguys]

you have to understand that many of the people running jb4 are doing it becuase of warranty. an ECM tune will void your engine warranty, with this you can just disconnect and you good to go

[@alanburke76]

@@Blessguys that is fair. I’m out of warranty by now on my mk7, so it’s not a concern. But I’d still want the reliability of a tune even if I was under warranty, even if that tune voids said warranty.

[@davidjuarez2215]

@@alanburke76 I had a jb4 and BMS Pedal Tuner on for 3 years 40k miles on my 19 Tiguan with no issues.

[@Biochemechanic]

Some folks add a JB system in addition to an ECU tune in order to tweak the tune.

[@Biochemechanic]

Map zero is no tune, OEM pass through.

[@linhai1]

i have a racechip s (the cheapest one) on my 1.2 tsi 110 hp .you can really feel the difference when driving and it was cheap 170 dollars

[@tullgutten]

That pulsating power is a killer. And often these "kits" makes the fuel consumption much worse for a little more HP. It looked like a good an promising kit at install and the app but is the car starts to vibrate is no good. Also when it potentially fails it can easily kill the engine by running too lean. Never trusted these kits as ive had a few cars in for diagnostic for heavy smoke, low poer or no start and it's been a tune box (they're generally not watertight so many rust out on the innside shorting out the wires) My dad also bought one for an old VW Caravelle and it got more HP yes but used twice the ammount of fuel, was roalling coal and uneven. Complained and got a proper ecu modification and the car was 10 times better and smoother, no smoke and the gearshifts also got better

[@ViktorAgnarFalkGumundsson]

China "tuningbox" can't really be compared to JB4... a proper tune is the way to go..

[@GreyMK7Jet]

It’s crazy how I was just talking to a co worker about considering this and BAM! Charles with the video break down! I’m impatiently waiting for the IE true Flex on 19-21 for my GLI and personally I’ll keep waiting although this video almost changed my mind I’m not going to lie! Thank you Charles!!

[@HumbleMechanic]

Meant to be

[@MeltingRubberZ28]

I've been running the JB4 on my 19 GLI for years now. It unquestionably makes a LOT more power (granted I'm FBO).

[@randallmunson9909]

I've been watching your older presentations looking for Mk4 content. Recently rescued a '03 Jetta wgn. (2.0/5spd.) from going to the recycle yard and am trying to find the "weak" spots of it. Replaced the dipstick funnel, pressure vessel cap and put a battery in it. Runs strong with 270k and continuing to find defects and worn out components mainly small molded hoses, secondary air pump mounts and plugs. You've got a real good video presence and enjoy your videos.

[@MMSstation93]

George at bms 100% awsome customer service , wheither it adds power by huge or abit but the support u get frm bms is amazing plus u can get logs and other information! I ran jb4 custom map 6 with downpipe on mk7.5 GTI for almost a year, Zero issues!

[@HumbleMechanic]

we talked about the MAP6 stuff a little. So im hoping after some updating we have a more smooth performing car

[@MMSstation93]

@@HumbleMechanic thats great, GoodLuck!

[@lawabiding2576]

Was always skeptical about intakes. Thanks for showing us proof!

[@GuyBucktastik]

One of the best features of the jb4 is its logging capabilities. You can dyno the car, and get data from the jb4 and see exactly how many degrees 9f timing are being cut around what rpms, if your afr is lean you can see that and back off appropriately.

[@Byefriendo]

Yeah but you can also get that kinda data from a cheap OBDII reader and phone app, or better yet VCDS I got a $11 bluetooth OBDII dongle and a $5 app and can log MAP, rpm, ignition and valve timing etc....

[@Jushwa]

The face alone that the guys made at the tuning shop when I asked them about the JB4 was enough to put me off of ever buying one. This was when we were already in the process of flashing my car flashing it to Apr stage 1 6 years ago and I was asking about stacking for my daily. I still would never put one of those spoof the numbers piggy back boxes. The ecms detected them back then and they detect them even better now. Also love the rotating r center caps

[@mqbr22]

Was waiting for this video. Thank you. Really wish you could have ran a final run with stock air box and no JB4. I think I will pass on the JB4

[@TheDsantander]

Using 70s electronics, the module in BOM costs no more than 10 bucks

[@KurumaDesigns]

I’ve got a lot of experience with jb4 on a e92 335i with an n54 and on that platform you can combine it with a mhd backend flash. This gives you the best of both worlds, jb4 map switching, safety features, anti-lag etc and the smoothness of a flash tune. I wonder if anything like that will be made available for other, newer cars 🤷🏼‍♂️ Another thing to note is that on the n54 cars you connect the jb4 inbetween the dme(engine ecu) and the wiring harness from the car and everything is contained in the factory ecu box so you can’t even see that it’s installed 😁

[@HumbleMechanic]

It sounds like JB4 is far more sorted for BMW?

[@KurumaDesigns]

@@HumbleMechanic yeah I think they started with bmws, has been available for the 335i’s for years and I know they suppport most other bmws including the new m3/4

[@ViktorAgnarFalkGumundsson]

@@HumbleMechanic they were the bees knees back in the day for N54s, but today i make my own tunes and flash them on the stock ECU..

[@karstgeo7290]

The magic it seems of the JB4 is map 6 customization. Map 4 needing some E was likely the issue on pump 93. Great video!

[@PapiAndrey]

That’s definitely what it was. E30 mix makes a decent difference and you kind of need it at higher boost levels in my experience when I had my mk7

[@Davew335r]

I've got a JB4 fitted to my Golf MK8 R over here in the UK. I'm having endless issues in regards to how it's running, what feels like surging or hesitation between 3.5k and 6k in most gears. I've put it back in Map 0 for now until issues have been sorted

[@HumbleMechanic]

Probably a GM good choice

[@fungaming4k]

What maps give u issues? All ??? Jb4 works great on mk8 gti so been trying to find my info on golf r mk8 dsg map 4 or map 5 ?? Issues

[@Davew335r]

@@fungaming4k Well, they seem to have ironed out some of the issues now. I was having awful hesitation and bucking between 3.5k and 6k. We tried all sorted of adjustments on the map but nothing was fixing it. George sent through a firmware update last week which seems to have helped but now the car isn't much faster than standard after doing some dragy times. Also, I can't use launch control as the gearbox doesn't know what to do when it tries to change.

[@fungaming4k]

@@Davew335r so still needs more work for mk8 golf r . . Testing . So I guess in time it might get there. Anywho I've been waiting on apr . But car is still locked . So the jb4 is only real opinion now. And I had jb4 on a bmw . Worked great . But yea bmw / burger is where it started. So hopefully 🙏 things come around . For the mk8.golf r . .

[@Jushwa]

The real tunes will make you very happy once they come

[@davidbugarin]

I’m a happy Mk7.5 GTI owner, and although I’m not a fan of the Mk8, solely bc I won’t accept what VW did to the infotainment/haptic-touch controls on this generation, I did find this content helpful and informative. I’ll be adding a Stage 1 EQT tune with Cobb AP soon though! Def enjoy your channel’s Golf content regardless of GTI/R or generation🤙🏼👍🏼

[@fartamplifer]

I've used a few piggyback tunes, they're "good enough solutions" but after getting a true ECU tune from one of the big name tuners I wouldn't go back. A proper ECU tune coupled with a a TCU tune is so much smoother and refined it's incredible. Besides, a piggyback is not undetectable. If the dealer wants to they can start looking through the logs in all the various modules and see if any of them were either requesting or reports out of bounds values for things like boost, torque, etc. A cursory scan won't show anything out of place but if there a large dollar warranty claim like a turbo or piston rings, the dealer will be doing a deep scan on everything.

[@WabahaAbubala]

They still have to prove that you did something, if nothing shows up and they find nothing in the car, they can't legally deny your warranty work. Hence all the people with JB4 still getting warranty work.

[@carswarfield]

I’ve got the JB4 map 6 dialed in on my MK8 R (thanks to George). It still breaks up on me a bit but it’s not all the time. A couple gallons of E85 REALLY makes a difference.

[@HumbleMechanic]

He told me he’s still working on 6. I think I’ll toss some e85 in and see how she does

[@carswarfield]

@@HumbleMechanic makes sense. I had a dialog with them already having had jb4 on a GTI previously. Also I’m assuming I’m one of the data points they’re using to get it right 😂😅

[@4thMUSKETEERS]

Would have loved to see different gas used as that could play a big factor between 91, 93, E30 and E85. Like you Map 4 was really designed to be used on ethanol not just straight pump gas

[@Masso1973]

Whatever it is, the Ecu is compensating or cutting off something as you say and going into feedback loop. That would scare me too, you can knock your pistons to bits. You just got this beautiful car….I completely agree that a custom tune directly in the Ecu is the best. Also I’d rather run slightly rich than lean to be safe. Air intake numbers, who knows, maybe the stock injectors are higher capacity than needed and the air flow happens to be an excellent match with the stock turbo. If the Ecu says GO! and the higher air flow rate is kept up nicely by the turbo and the injectors, there you go.

[@fahrvergnuegen]

I had a JB4 with the E85 flex fuel adapter in my 335i N55 for quite a while. Made a massive difference in torque and power. Especially the auto tune map which kept getting stronger the more you pulled. Wheelspin in 3rd on a dry road in souther california. 😁

[@pudermcgavin4462]

Not too bad of a price really, since I just spent 800ish bucks on a racingline r600, intake pipe coolant tube, elbow and muffler delete for not really more power at all! But I will say my 1.8 now is useful about 4500rpm now

[@kylebaxter7400]

Thanks for the content @HumbleMechanic. The platform is still super new so I'm glad your doing this. Even if its tanking now I think these videos will age pretty well. Also just got a 380 gti and was thinking of cobb but the gains from the intake only are impressive. I might start there.

[@armandocardona6975]

One of the down side of Piggyback is the need to run the car a few miles after each map change to allow the cars computer to adjust to the new numbers for optimal performance. That’s why you probably got high numbers from stock when coming down maps.

[@georgel3657]

I haven't been watching the mk8 views because I haven't got one and I'm not really interested in getting one since I'm happy with my mk7, I don't really see them as special cars. I'd much prefer to see you buying something special and fixing that and going on a trip. Thank you though for consistently putting out good content for free though I appreciate you

[@mikebroom1866]

Neuspeed piggyback on my mk7 definitely added some ooompfh during the warranty period. APR tune definitely better though.

[@jamest5149]

JB4 works well on M5. Lots of tuning options and fail safes. Made a masssive difference to power and torque. Ran faultlessly for years and get customer support. Ran Map 6 with meth control.

[@heffaazul]

Thank you Unitronic for not putting me through this headache!

[@acerimmer8338]

I've been running a JB1 on my two MK7/7.5 GTIs and it's been the perfect solution. Maintain warranty, plug and play, and add some much needed top end and only cost $320 (at the time). The car feels much more alive above 4k RPM and stock otherwise. For that price it's been worth every penny. BUT, once you get into customization, reliability, cost (this setup was over $700?!?!), and eeking out every HP, it's just safer and better to get a real custom tune. Either keep it simple or go all the way.

[@gianpaoloalbanese6202]

Yep I agree w/ the stock clutch will need to be swapped on the mk7.5 golf R. It happened to my 20k MK7.5 R. I did not believe it either. I have a Neuspeed power module w the turbo muffler delete, IE intake and an APR turbo inlet pipe. All good until I started to track my car. Clutch slipping which eventually required a Stage 2 clutch that my awesome VW dealership installed for me w no issues. The clutch is definitely an issue w any mods.

[@invertedpolarity6890]

Wow. Burger Tuning has gone a bit insane with what they are charging. For $700, you can get a great dyno tune.

[@HumbleMechanic]

Its a lot of $ for sure. I think the big advantage is the ability to remove it on a new car. But yea in the $700 space you have a lot of options

[@scottjohnson4885]

When a true tune comes available the cost will be about the same for stage 1… look forward to those dyno numbers 🫣

[@GuyBucktastik]

Who does dyno tunes on mk8 golfs?

[@HumbleMechanic]

No one yet

[@dasteknoviking]

@@HumbleMechanic ecu cracked, tunes being fine tuned atm... It should be available at least in Europe by end of the year. Gains so far have been pretty remarkable.

[@brizax]

I’ve had really good results with my chipwerke on stage 1-2 settings on my 3.0T , I ran it for 2 years before I went custom

[@HumbleMechanic]

NICE!!! I think im going to test drive the racing line on too. I like how it mounts AHHA

[@brizax]

@@HumbleMechanic not sure if you still have the B8 but the CW just taps in at tha maps on the SC then you just tuck it under the rain tray, quick and painless install lol 😂 Stage 1 setting I think I got about 3-4 more psi and I clicked it to stage 2 on my DP install and it ran decent .. the custom tune gave me more punch on the bottom end with slightly more top end “I’m still logging and making tweaks” But in launch mode it’ll blow all 4 tires off now lol 🙄

[@HumbleMechanic]

@@brizax THATS AWESOME!!! Did you just run the piggyback or did you have a tune and piggy? I still have that B8, its dual pulley and tuned. I worry about piggy +tune for a dodgy car with 215k LOL

[@AutoAndrew]

@@HumbleMechanic I ran a 2010 S4 DSG w/ a CW just like the one you have (albeit with much less miles lol) for some time. FWIW, I absolutely hated how it drove. The power delivery was incredibly jerky and felt like it was flipping back and forth from stock to “tricked” ECU on acceleration. Really made me sour towards these piggyback tunes like JB4, CW, etc. For me it’s worth spending the extra $$ for a quality ECU tune.

[@brizax]

@@HumbleMechanic I just ran the CW alone, some people stack them on a OTS tune … I’d get maybe a strange shift 1-2 times a month running the CW with a dsg trans , but my car was totally drive able as a daily, I didn’t have all the issues like the guy posted above

[@noah5923]

Mk4 are in alot of enthusiasts' hands now. Ill watch too much of it. Im Excited for the TT series.

[@FastRedPonyCar]

I had a JB4 on my MK7 R and it made a big difference even with the base tune they put on it. My clutch though... man I never launched the car even once and my clutch was slipping badly on the interstate and the car had less than 9k miles on it. I don't blame the tune, I blame the VW engineers thinking that a GTI clutch would work on a car with 50+ more HP. Burger are legends in the BMW tuning community and will no doubt make good progress on these MK8 tunes for even more power and smoothness with the more aggressive maps. Hopefully someone gets these ECU's cracked before too long though.

[@darrengilbert8467]

I've got the jb4 on my 1.4 2019 jetta and it makes a pretty big difference! Still not a stock GLI but it's nice.

[@HumbleMechanic]

NICE! I lwould love to drive a 1.4t with a tune or piggyback

[@darrengilbert8467]

I use map 6 with an AEM intake and catless downpipe. They've been dino'd around 185-190hp. Close to a stock civic si for way cheaper!

[@ddroz23]

I have a JB4. People talk Ish. The support team is great but the Docs scatter all over the internet which make understanding the product feel iffy. It works. and really works if you learn to exploit it.

[@HumbleMechanic]

I have done it with a stiff pick. but it SUCKS!!!!

[@u4ia420]

Traded in my Mk7 Golf TDI due to the chronic leaking sunroof. Started causing significant electrical issues. But I got a MK8 GTI Autobahn CPO. 10K miles and 3500 cheaper than new.

[@HumbleMechanic]

NICE!!! This is why I HATE VW sunroofs!

[@PrzFinest21x]

Does the MK8 version of JB4 not allow you to log and compare actual data from map to map? I wish that was included In the video. You’re well aware dynos are “tuning tools”, would’ve been nice to see you track Down the dips on the dyno chart and break it down on the log to better explain to the audience what the car was actually sensing/reading and how it was reacting. There was no mention of IAT, boost pressure or anything from map to map. Great video, just feels incomplete.

[@Marri-Tech]

You will find the jb4 does machine learning. So it basically makes adjustments to trim tables so you would run a smoother graph in say a month then you do right away

[@HumbleMechanic]

I think next time im up that way, I will have them dyno it again. That place is about 2hr from me so its not easy to pop over there.

[@Marri-Tech]

@@HumbleMechanic tbf the conclusion iv come to with the jb4 is that if your wanting to keep your warranty on a new car it's perfect but in regards to anyone else it's best to save up/wait for a ECU to be unlocked and a proper map developed

[@HumbleMechanic]

@@Marri-Tech This is basically my POV too. Its not so cut and dry, but that is the basics of it

[@nillbill6639]

Stacking in the right circumstances can work.. Let's not forget that I still believe worlds fastest Gen 3 GLI is a JB4 stacked stage 3 car. Lots of stage 3 Gen3e888 cars do this stack map 6 successfully especially with WMI.

[@tangentdark]

after realizing how much vw underrates power i finally understand how the vw tuning market is so crazy, none of them actually do as much as they say but charge for it

[@KXKKX]

Thanks for this content, super valuable look beyond/behind the marketing hype. This thing scares me, and I wouldn’t consider using it since I value warranty & longevity over top-performance in my daily.

[@adensterchi977]

So Burger Tuning actually gives you a free protune with purchase of Jb4. I found the protune to be MUCH smoother than the base jb4 maps. The base maps pull a ton of timing and don’t feel great, the protunes by George at burger tuning feel great. If you get a jb4, you MUST email him about a free protune, that’s the only way these tunes will feel decent. The big downside though is that the Dsg is confused and doesn’t drive amazingly, even then this is a great option if you don’t wanna break warranty

[@Jushwa]

Pretty much what the guys at Eurosport said too. Nothing beats a tune.

[@adensterchi977]

@@Jushwa nothing beats a good ol Ecu reflash tune you’re right

[@matthewgaines10]

You have more faith in VW / Audi than I. Stock tune / stock car is problem enough. Fading black sunroof surrounds, failing headliner, switches, anti glare coating on screen failing, puddle splash killing Xenon ballast and more I can’t remember. At least my 2015 VW and 2016 Audi are mechanically good. For now. After two decades of buying VW / Audi exclusively, I bought my first non-VAG car and I don’t deal with the typical pattern failures I’ve grown accustomed to. I keep it stock since it simplifies the problems I will need to deal with down the road.

[@ChrisNieves]

Good video. I have had JB4s on a few cars and also now correctly on my ‘22 Rubicon and love it. Next is WMI and map 7 :) which just arrived last week and waiting to be installed.

[@grumpychocobo]

My guess is Map 4 needed more octane like you said. Car was picking up pre-knock and pulling timing resulting in the lackluster numbers compared to Map 3 and also the super jumpy dyno graph.

[@grumpychocobo]

Of course 30 seconds after I decided to type this while watching the video, you stated almost the exact same thing in your closing remarks. lol

[@themystx2]

I think the issue based on your dyno graphs is that the developers of the JB did not fully understand how to handle the turbine sensor which is new for the MQB platform at that time. Fast forward to 8 months later, I wonder if anyone could redyno their R/S3 and see if there was any progress. The JB4 on the MK8 GTI which does not have this sensor seems to do what it should, add about 10 whp per 1 psi boost. I've been running JB products since back in the N54 days when the JB was called the terry tune and was a geek named Terry who thought piggybacks were a ripoff and set out to develop a similar solution with Radio Shack parts. Time flies!

[@joechapmanmechanic]

A lot of Jetta guys including myself run JB4 on top of APR Stage1 w/ an Is38 bc we don’t get alot of tuning support from the big companies

[@AaronHalpin]

I started with a JB4 on my 2015 GLI and drove that for probably close to 30,000 miles. I then got a Uni 1+ tune and it honestly felt about the same as running the JB4. I contacted George at BMS and had a custom map 6 built just to fine tune everything. Best of both worlds! I have been running both for close to 20,000 miles now.

[@HumbleMechanic]

Running them stacked?

[@AaronHalpin]

@@HumbleMechanic Yes...eventually I would like to go with a gappincheeks turbo and stage 2 tune. I will probably get rid of the JB4 after that.

[@Jushwa]

How much boost and are you using an analog sensor ?

[@Ldougbmx]

I had a JB4 on my MK7.5 for about a year. Did a custom map with help from George over at BMS and it was a fun little project to get logs for them and map out something with them. Ultimately ended up getting an APR Stage 1. The JB4, to me, felt a lot more smooth when you really got on in compared to the APR, but the APR just feels a lot more powerful at the end of the day.

[@b3wavy573]

Did you wait until the warranty ran out ?

[@Ldougbmx]

@@b3wavy573 no I did not. I don't drive the car much as I WFH so there wasn't much reason to wait

[@operationbs7610]

The biggest reason i use the piggyback is to avoid voiding my warranty. I have a great tuner ready to go once the warranty expires but thats not for about 100k miles..

[@pedrochevallier3389]

Are u a Mk8r with the jb4?

[@sean3077]

I’m in the process of testing this on my RS3 8Y in the Uk. Just a few issues at the moment around the harness and top pressure sensor, however George at Burger has been pretty good with support.

[@vanquish_engineering]

great video! Thank you! Can't wait for the APR Stage 1 for the MK8, but this just might do the trick until then.

[@tshedzakevinmathavha2663]

Your vw/audi fan from south africa is here🌍🇿🇦

[@HumbleMechanic]

CHEERS!!!!!

[@The_journeyy]

*Interesting to see the results on this what a predicament* 😃

[@fernando1998al]

Honeslty, the best results on a dyno I've seen on bmw's, kias and hyundais lol

[@DarkWolfWRX]

I am not sure if this has been addressed for you VW guys. But I have been in the Beta program for the 2022 WRX JB4 for a bit now. An we have the ability to use Map 6 and dial in our own custom map. It is actually quite simple if you spend the time to learn what is what and what to look for on the logs. You can smooth out those graphs. A good way to look at it, is the Maps 1-5 are like a Cobb AP OTS map. They are okayish for what they are, and are built as a one size fits all type deal. Which doesnt always work car to car. But Map 6 would be more akin to a tuner making a custom map for the AP. Fine tuned to YOUR engine and exact setup. While I do agree, ECU flash IS the better way to go, SOME of these JB4s are still undetectable by some companies. Subaru it seems being one of them. So far we have seen 2 JB4 Subaru guys go undetected in Warranty claims. As well as a engineer digging into the ECU and seeing that the current version just isnt built to monitor the smaller things needed to pick up the JB4. Which I am sure will be addressed in the next model/s. BUT this is the internet so take that tid bit with a grain of salt.

[@cengeb]

I have used Neuspeed which works GREAT...kit had all need to install

[@HELPD3SK]

$750? It’s $3k for 30hp on my car.

[@BryBryProduction]

I got a Neuspeed piggyback tune for my MK6.5 GLI. Has two maps. For 91octane and for 100octane. It gave +33hp and 72torque. I still have warranty so i decided to get this for a while. I just wanted something that will wake up the car. All this for $400

[@pojay52]

All of your content is awesome. I particularly enjoy the MK7.5 content with your Ginster, but it's all great. Perhaps the MK8 will pick up a bit once the tuners crack the box on it. When is the next Cars with Cocktails ep? You and Paul together are a great watch/listen! Cheers!

[@highboost1459]

Is there a reason why you skipped Map 2? Was it due to the quality of gasoline in your area? In my opinion, Map 6 custom tune, boost by RPM is where you'd see much better torque curves.

[@Michael-kd4oi]

Just like that you got a racing line sponsorship. 🤣🤣🤣

[@puretagamer]

I recently got a turbotransformer (similar to jb4) for my 330e with the B48B20A engine. Logging with it disabled the car usually boost to 12 with some rare peaks to 14. With the TT set to +2 PSI I see it boosting commonly to 16-17 and some peaks to 20 which scared me since a tuner told me you enter squarely into danger zone over 18 psi with these engines. So I removed it and will wait until the ECU can be reprogrammed for this car.

[@carwerks101]

I had so many issues on my 7R with my jb unit when on the race track, constant limp mode and they had no fix for it back then, hopefully they fixed it by now

[@DADMOBILE_Garage]

Love this vid. Put a jb4 in my Passat, and I’m on the second revision of map 6 via help from George @BMS. Plus Downpipe and intake it’s a huge difference in butt dyno.

[@HumbleMechanic]

im very interested on the down pipe!

[@random13627]

i’ve never seen jb4 for volkswagens that work… integrated engineering for life

[@stevebryson3702]

Since you cleared the ECU memory and put the intake on, it was probably running a little leaner with more boost than it normally would, and ignoring its torque targets. Did you log AFR and MAP on the dyno? I would bet that if you left the intake on and drove ~100 miles, the ECU would go back to targeting torque output and modifying turbo dynamics/valve timing to hit it. I work for a performance manufacturer and we typically ignore the first several runs until the ECU re-learns the new airflow characteristics. After several runs, we see a big drop off in power; usually back to stock levels.

[@HumbleMechanic]

Lot of good insight, and you are probably right as the ECM will account for the intake. I wish we could visit the dyno without 5hr round trip driving .

[@franktatham5538]

I have a TDI tuning box on my mk4 golf GT TDI, i did notice it was more responsive. My golf is box standard engine wise and according to the “website” my HP should rise to 150 from 115. Ive driven a 150 pd TDI its no where near, but there is a difference. But i did notice with the engine running I can’t communicate with the control unit using VCDS so couldn’t read injectors at idle, i was intrigued. With ignition on can communicate with no issues and there is no faults present. Haven’t tried with ODIS yet though

[@kierenalvarez]

So normally your on point... One thing i know though is your success rate with these will be determined by how complex your models ecu and sensor suite is. Would never do it personally on a vehicle that can be re-flashed. And never on something that complex. I would rather it stock.

[@TheNorville2]

These boxes are very good, RaceChip GTS Black - Golf 8 i put these boxes on all my cars and have no problems with them.... made in Germany..bought from Awesomegti in the Uk

[@HumbleMechanic]

Nice!!!!

[@android175]

Cant wait for proper ECU tunes. Also, thanks to this video I think ill be purchasing the R600 intake soon for my Audi S3. In terms of content, id love if you could do a Golf R vs S3 8Y content. Specifically, dyno. Thank you!

[@rhekman]

How much time had passed between the stock and intake only runs? Density-altitude can make a big difference.

[@HumbleMechanic]

It was hotter this time than the last time. altitude would be the same, it was the same dyno

[@rhekman]

@@HumbleMechanic Thanks for the reply. I wasn't saying the dyno suddenly got moved from New Orleans to Denver. I'm just curious how much weather conditions might have affected the tests over time. I guess density-altitude is more of an aviation term. It refers to the relative equivalent altitude a location provides adjusted for atmospheric pressure and temperature. E.g a plane taking off from an airport at 3000ft elevation might have to treat a "hot & high" day like they were taking at 7000ft because of the reduced lift, propeller, and engine performance the lower air density provides. I'm still learning myself when it comes to engine tuning. But a piston engine could easily be affected by 10% or more with enough change in barometric pressure, temperature, and humidity. A turbo should make up a lot on a low pressure day, but if it's also hot and humid, that can also displace available free oxygen in the charge air, and make the intercooler less effective.

[@whoismario]

This is a great sales video to a buy a flash tune.

[@moochiezpitt]

Thanks for this. I had a IE stage 1 on my 16 A3 1.8 and after around 5k miles the exhaust turbine broke off. That tune was putting out 20-22 lbs. Maybe too much for that turbo. Returned the tune and got a Race Chip tune for $400 with the app to turn off and adjust for several different setting, eco, sport and race. Of course I always have it on race. It's half the power output of the map tune but I have more confidence it won't damage the turbo.

[@kchan333]

Blending in some ethanol is what makes piggybacks shine... I wouldn't have started out on the higher maps without ethanol and you see why. Stacking a piggyback on top of ECU tune is fine if you know what you are doing. Data logging is key.

[@HumbleMechanic]

That came on the recommendation of JB4

[@kchan333]

@@HumbleMechanic yeah, I'm surprised that they recommended that. ECU was probably detecting knock because of the aggressive boost and not enough octane. It pulled ignition timing making the power curve look weird. It even freaked out by cutting throttle.

[@HumbleMechanic]

Yep me too! But all good. It proved why staying a tad on the conservative side is a good idea.

[@TheBelthamel]

Dont you have to swap to colder sparks to run jb4? Never used it , just heard it needs colder sparks

[@FirstLast-we8cb]

Used to run a UTEC on my WRX when that was the only option. Kinda sorta of a piggy back. It worked well.

[@European_carclub]

Hey Humble mechanic. Awesome video on the piggyback tune. I was wondering if you thought about this idea when I tagged you on a Instagram post a month ago on my Audi q5 3.0T/chip Werke piggyback tune? Overall its been a great upgrade for a cheaper price and continue the great informational video's.

[@jasonmichaeljones]

This is pretty cool. I wish a similar video was made with mhd / and the BMW 135i

[@rickfarber4243]

Terrific video and review. There is nowhere else to get this kind of info on the piggyback tune. With a GTI under warranty, I've always wondered if this is the warranty-safest way to go.

[@anengineerandacat]

Map > 2 on these typically require several bolt-on's... at least from my experience with one on a Veloster N... Map 2 is basically the most reliable stock but 3 & 4 require colder plugs, better fuel pump, potentially even meth injection to help prevent knock (which on vehicles with knock sensors means the ECU will start fighting the JB4). Other issues is that the JB4 location itself really matters, they seem to have issues once they start seeing increased thermals from the engine bay so tucking them away somewhere that can be shield is often a good idea. In short, good for those 0-60 times and even quarter mile but just inconsistent performance gains where one run might look great and the other not so great. A dedicated ECU with a proper tune for the vehicle by a proper tuner just gives you far more consistent gains and factory-level reliability; better fuel-pump is always a good idea though along with colder plugs. Fuel obviously matters too, 93 or bust for anything above stock (though with these 2.0L turbocharged motors 93 is a good idea anyway).

[@braydunh6829]

HumbleMechanic I have been having issue with my mk5 jetta with a 2.5l auto. I've been going through and repairing common areas for vaccum leaks or may cause incorrect reading to get rid of the p0171 lean code. I replaced my fuel filter, valve cover gasket and air lines that had been brittle on the intake next to the throttle body. I replaced the maf and cleared the codes only to have the car choke itself and shut off. Once the new maf sensor is unplugged the car will then run again but extreme poorly. I would like to know how to correct this matter before I rack up a larger shop bill giving my car to a mechanic.

[@vasegan]

at 10:46 data log has to be incorrect. AFR is way too lean and Ignition time is way too low. I would also the the car some to allow the ecu to adapt before dyno pulls.

[@renatoganaden10]

Sir aside in upgrading the turbo on mk8 gti what else is needed to be upgraded?

[@sr707ca8]

Love your channel 👍just throwing this out there for future content maybe short videos of front bumper removal or water pumps/thermostat removal and installation since economy is tight maybe people would like videos on working on there mk7 and now new mk8's

[@mattlaney2889]

This video goes against everything the JB4 forums say to do. Start at a lower map then move up. Log your data so you know if you have ignition problems. Starting on map 4 without the proper fuel is dumb. Of course its going to be cutting power. The ecu is saving the engine from knock.