Are Streetcars Better Than Buses?

Reece discuss the ever important streetcar versus buses debate in today's video! Enjoy!
As always, leave a comment down below if you have ideas for our future videos. Like, subscribe, and hit the bell icon so you won't miss my next video!
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Hi, my name's Reece. I'm a passionate Creator, Transportation Planner, and Software Developer, interested in rapid transportation all around my home base of Toronto, Canada, as well as the whole world!

[@davidreichert9392]

I hate the whole "we're not Europe" argument for things. The laws of physics don't change by crossing the Atlantic. Toronto was settled by Europeans FFS.

[@jer2689]

@@July1st1867 well we definetly would be better off building a city with affordable density and accessible transit

[@ChilapaOfTheAmazons]

In Turin, Italy, there are still old trams in active use that were designed in the 1940's. I.e. some of them have been *used daily for over 70 years!* These things are reliable and require little maintenance. The biggest refurbishment happened when we figured out that asbestos is not great and we had to remove it from the insulation.

[@urbanfile3861]

In Milan Peter Witt's streetcars delivered in 1928 (which also are referred as 28 for this reason) are still operational on many lines. Generally the ones with not segregated stretch in the city center and not too long. They became an emblem of the city itself

[@MattMcIrvin]

The Ashmont-Mattapan line on the MBTA uses 1940s PCC streetcars, though frankly it probably shouldn't.

[@unconventionalideas5683]

@@MattMcIrvin It's too light of a line to support newer, heavier streetcars, and would require expensive and length upgrades.

[@The-Gougar]

Sadly, road salt makes that pretty difficult in colder climates

[@richardbourne4300]

Hiroshima has 2 1930s streetcars still running that survived an atomic blast.

[@dwijbhandari7914]

Tbh trams, buses, light rail and metros all have their own place in a comprehensive transit network. You can’t say we will only build one type to serve an entire city cause that will never work. We need buses, for example, for last mile connectivity and we need metros, for example for a city wide network that makes covering one end to another end in minutes possible.

[@synthiandrakon]

it's important to remember that for public transit, making a road less accessable to cars Is a feature not a flaw. if you take away a lane for drivers and they keep seeing a streetcar Wiz by them as they get stuck in traffic, if it's available they're gonna start to think "huh why don't I just get on that instead". the whole point is to make less people drive.

[@PauxloE]

The one disadvantage of a tram/streetcar (compared to a bus): If there is a problem on the route, the bus can go around it, while the tram is stuck. (I've seen queues of tens or more trams in Berlin.) Though if you have a whole grid, you can reroute your lines around the problematic spot.

[@Thelastairbendy]

ever heard of Autonomous Rail Rapid Transit

[@PauxloE]

@@Thelastairbendy Not by this name, but what has this to do with my comment, or with the question on whether buses or streetcars/trams are better?

[@filiaaut]

Even if they can't reroute the trams, the flow can be controlled to mitigate the effects. It will still be an inconvenience of course, but recently, there was a minor incident on the line I was taking, between two stops, they decided to operate the two parts of the line separately until the problem was solved (so the trams would change direction at the last station before the accident). It slows the traffic down, and many passengers have to get down at the "last" station until the whole line is working again as one, which is annoying, but it's better than being stuck in a tram traffic jam. I live in a much smaller town than Berlin, so maybe the lower frequency makes things more manageable for the operators ?

[@PauxloE]

@@filiaaut It only works if you have the infrastructure (at least track switches, possibly also turnaround points, depending on whether your trams can go backwards) at those places (this is somewhat rare in Berlin). Of course, this also was at a place where we got every 3-4 minutes a tram (several lines combined). Sometimes they can be rerouted to other routes, but not always.

[@filiaaut]

@@PauxloE Yes, we have track switches regularly on the lines which help with situation like these. The first line was the only one for more than a decade, so they probably were cautious about that sort of things (thankfully, since a design defect lead to premature deterioration of the rails in a rather central portion of the line).

[@vita_travel888]

Yes, yes, yes! Streetcars (in Europe, aka trams) should be promoted as much as possible. Here's why: the capacity of modern streetcar vehicles is much higher than that of a bus and it can run really smoothly and quietly thanking to the rubber cushion under the rails. They don't need recharging as they are constantly connected to the powerline. The railway-based rolling stock lasts longer than the rubber-wheel based vehicles. At last, but not the least, trams are simply beautiful!

[@leonpaelinck]

and they don't ruin the road (although that barely matters since cars cause more damage) but this does matter a lot if they run on their dedicated lane!

[@fauzirahman3285]

I finally got around to watching this one. As someone living in Melbourne, I know that there's a mix of trams with both right of way and sharing the street with vehicles. Yeah, buses do take up space too and at least the authorities here are quick to clear up the mess if an accident or other disruption happens on a busy tram route. Also like you said with electric power, the trams here have been pledged to be fully powered by renewable energy, so that is easier to switch from say a diesel-powered bus.

[@emporioalnino4670]

route 6 tram gang

[@AndrooUK]

What does renewable energy have to do with switching from diesel? Renewable energy makes it harder to switch, not easier, because usually it's wind and solar which are generally unreliable and low energy density... not something you want for your transportation network (or society in general). Nuclear is the only sustainable, affordable, and reliable future of energy, not hoping the wind blows, or having to have massive battery or water energy storage banks, and replacing wind turbines and solar panels every ten years.

[@Lucius_Chiaraviglio]

@@AndrooUK Renewable energy with energy storage and transmission will have fine reliability (the sun doesn't shine all the time in any place, and the wind doesn't blow all the time in any place, but the sun does shine every day -- even overcast days -- and the wind is always blowing somewhere). And renewable energy doesn't make nuclear waste or have Fukushima/Chernobyl-class accidents.

[@ChilapaOfTheAmazons]

In Italy streetcars (trams) routinely use *narrow 2-lane streets shared with other traffic* without issues. It's not a big deal really. 🤷‍♀️

[@ChilapaOfTheAmazons]

@@emeraldbonsai that would block the tram, so when the next one arrives the driver calls the police and they remove the car. When it happens the tram is usually delayed by half an hour but the driver that parked illegally gets an hefty fine and they learn very quickly to not park on the tracks. Ultimately it becomes extremely rare. I ride a tram every day that passes on such narrow streets shared with cars, I've literally not seen a parked car blocking the tram in over 10 years.

[@tonydarcy7475]

That happens in Melbourne too, but the problem it creates is some of our longer tram lines take forever to get from the outer suburbs to the CBD during peek times (sometimes over 2 hours for a 30-40KM route).

[@JamesMacFarlane]

Buses account for a great deal of road wear. You get "bus knuckes" where they squish out the asphalt and ruin the surface.

[@bisonfan715]

That's called asphalt pavement creep

[@user-tr9rw7ne8x]

Buses aren't fixed to a set track that requires maintenance and hence shut down that portion of the line requiring them to use bus replacements.

[@LeReVaQ]

no they don't. they save far more damage that can be done if those ppl were using cars instead. stop spreading your stupidity

[@user-tr9rw7ne8x]

@@LeReVaQ You should really say who your replying to so people aren't confused. For a second I thought you were replying to me.

[@Chris-nq9nb]

So true! In London, UK, bicycles often share bus lanes and it's like being on a rollercoaster sometimes.

[@HesJustSteven]

I strongly agree with this video, I love how you said streetcars and buses both have their place too and that's very true, in New York, we screwed up by getting rid of streetcars and not building streetcar lines that can be useful, I see streetcars effectively replacing many Select Bus Service and heavily used bus routes. For example, in the Bronx, a streetcar can easily replace the bus routes along Gun Hill Road, the M15, B44, B46, B82, Bx41, and most of the Manhattan crosstown Select Bus Services are perfect routes to be replaced with streetcars. The Brooklyn Queens Connector is another example of the poor use of implementation of streetcars, it may not be circuitous but 1: it won't be run by the MTA, it doesnt connect to rapid transit subway lines, it's merely a push to gentrify the Brooklyn-Queens waterfront from Sunset Park to Astoria.

[@lzh4950]

In summary I guess that buses are more flexible but trams/streetcars are more efficient (also due to them not having to carry fuel on-board, and lower rolling resistance between steel wheels & rails compared to between asphalt & rubber tyres/tires I heard). It's probably up to individual cities to calculate whether that can outweigh the higher setup & maintenance costs (e.g. for tracks, electrical wiring, but innovations could help reduce the costs I think e.g. using more rigid overhead power rails instead of wires to save on tensioning & alignment work needed, having a 'smart' electrical system that powers only stretches of overhead wires/rails where trams are) of trams/streetcars depending on individual circumstances

[@HesJustSteven]

Zhi Han Lee there’s actually a new form of current collection for streetcars that can make them feasible in dense urban areas without overhead power lines called ground level power supply that’s very safe for pedestrians because the whole power line isn’t energized, just the sections the streetcar is running on. Saves huge amounts of electricity.

[@RMTransit]

Great comments here!

[@HallsofAsgard96]

I love what u wrote as NYer whos also a Bronxite I rarely hear NYers mention the bronx when it comes to transit!! I had forgotten that I once hrd NY had street cars. UR SO RIGHT ABT THE M15! My dad used to drive the M15. I'D also add the BX40/42 that primarily run on Tremont could also be a streetcar line

[@HesJustSteven]

@@HallsofAsgard96 the Bronx has a lot of holes in transit, we need a crosstown subway, subway extensions, a lot more needs to be done

[@christbaumer]

6:02 In Vienna, every time a new underground line gets built, the corresponding overground tramway track gets removed instead of repurposing some portions for new routes (best example: 21 - at least the portion around Heinestraße subsists in disuse); crossing routes lose their separated right-of-ways as they are now considered less important in favor of parking lanes hindering the tram drivers view. Even just redevelopment of a shopping street - a current European fad - takes away dedicated lanes for thumbnail pub gardens, cycle racks (yet without nearby cycle ways) and mini-benches.

[@ctalcantara1700]

Melbourne Australia's streetcar system- now that's a streetcar system.

[@lachlanbaker2031]

Trams.......

[@LuckyFlanker13]

@@lodle2919 Tram and streetcar are same thing.

[@LuckyFlanker13]

@@lodle2919 What im trying to say is that the semantics don't matter, in spirit they do the same duty: move lots of people short distances very efficiently

[@lzh4950]

Was surprised at how light traffic was in downtown when I visited Melbourne several years ago, even with roads being narrower (partially due to the presence of tram lines) than the city I'm from (Singapore). Thought it was because Melbourne had a smaller population, since I thought Australia with its low population density had a weaker public transport culture. Then I learnt that Melbourne's population was actually about the same as Singapore, and maybe public transport ridership there has already been induced significantly by various factors e.g commuters' habits, more expensive downtown parking

[@JayJayGamerOfficial]

@@lodle2919 I wouldn't say Australia refers to the as trams, in Sydney we used to have one of the biggest tram networks alongside Melbourne but since getting rid of it we have made it into a light rail system

[@guesepecz9191]

If you will go to europe you should look at Prague. You will find there everything. Buses, trams, subway, trains. I would say, that it is one of the best. This type of efectivity should be also used in US.

[@samanli-tw3id]

Vienna is also an opinion.

[@ThomasNing]

Everyone knows about Melbourne's system, but I think Sydney's system is also a very interesting case study. They're called light rail, but both lines have mixed traffic running as well as separated. The new line is extremely slow, but has high frequency and capacity, replacing many many busses, and is more comfortable. The older line also uses low-floor trams, but the majority of the line runs more like LRT - traffic separated and high speed (60-70kph, ~45mph), but individual vehicle capacity is lower and is made up by frequency. Its dedicated infrastructure was conveniently adapted from an old goods line, so extensive tunnels for a line which the government would never justify today. This is interesting as the trams running straight through the CBD in the newer line run in 2x5 (10) car configurations (as opposed to 1x5 cars), making them quite cumbersome in denser areas and intersections.

[@RMTransit]

Thanks for the comment Thomas, I do think I will talk about Sydney more in the future! One point, I think when referring to "cars" we probably should just stick to an entire LRV since the 5m modules aren't really independent vehicles.

[@ThomasNing]

@@MetroManMelbourne I think the model in sydney is more about high capacity corridors into the city, as you mentioned, and each line does stretch quite far into the suburbs, but is still a single line in each direction so the coverage as you mentioned is not very high. For most people it's similar to heavy rail in that you need to get to the station, by bus or otherwise, unless you are travelling to or from one of those high demand stops along the line (of which there are many). It's like spreading out the hubs, rather than literally every bus terminating at wynyard or railway square (the two bus hubs in the cbd).

[@mrrobot5963]

I can see some potential in some US streetcar systems like Portland, Seattle. There are also light rail system that inherited the original streetcar network like Newark,San Francisco

[@samuelitooooo]

You answered every concern I had seconds after I thought of it lol I appreciate that you did the comparison of streetcars vs LRT. It puts not only the cost difference in a much better perspective but also its niche in dense areas and downtown cores I also appreciate comparing streetcars made for transit vs those used as development tools. I'm from NYC where (besides having a not very good implementation of BRT) there's so much hype for a proposed streetcar called BQX that's exactly that. A development tool and a twisty route.

[@greenshell4082]

You brought up a lot of good points. I fully agree with you on the part where streetcars provide smoother rides. Dufferin St. is full of potholes and uneven surfaces. Especially on Eglinton due to the construction. I sometimes wonder if buses ended up breaking down due to constantly running over bumps. With streetcars, you don't have to worry too much about having to maintain road surfaces as they only run on rails. I'm not sure if this kind of problem is exclusive to Toronto, but fare evasion is more likely to happen on streetcars as opposed to being on a bus. I see it way too often and it negatively impacts the operation of the TTC. Even with fare inspectors (which is already controversial to begin with), it doesn't completely solve the problem.

[@lzh4950]

The difference in ride quality is even more obvious in older cities e.g. in Europe where some downtown roads are stone-paved & are thus bumpy to ride on in rubber-tyred vehicles e.g. buses

[@mcthorwmalows]

The problem of tram is too slow.

[@lzh4950]

21:07 Meanwhile HK's trams have only 1 door for boarding & 1 for alighting, like a bus. Plus point of that is that you don't need to employ conductors/inspectors to catch fare evaders

[@gmbrusselsprout]

My hometown Ottawa really needs its own streetcar lines in several places IMHO!! thank you soooo much for the amazing content!!

[@quarringtonz231]

gmbrusselsprout I‘ve been thinking about to build a streetcar on Bank St from Parliament towards Billings Bridge, but Bank St only has two lanes, and I don’t think Ottawa has budget to build tunnel.

[@gmbrusselsprout]

@@quarringtonz231 I do think that if they do a tunnel it will be 10, 15 or even 20 plus years down the road before they even start because it would be a rather large project. the tunnel, just based on my rough Google Maps estimates, would be almost twice as long as the 2.5 km Confederation Line tunnel at 4 km. I think Ottawa would need to grow a lot and there would be a wait time based on federal and provincial economic support of a project of that scope.

[@quarringtonz231]

gmbrusselsprout Exactly.

[@jonathanlewis2216]

They used to

[@DanTheCaptain]

I think Toronto specifically can benefit from more streetcar lines like the 512 St. Clair. I think that model of streetcar/LRT can potential he work really well on bus routes like the Duffrin, Bathurst, Jane routes.

[@eriklakeland3857]

That'd be transformative on the Sufferin Dufferin

[@mrperson2102]

Absolutely, cramped articulated busses running every 3 minutes is not enough

[@thelanittaja4765]

I think (at least in my context) the streetcars (or trams as we call them) should be separated from other traffic with curbs, fences or a median, not just paint. If the line runs in mixed traffic (usually 2-4 lane road) there should be minimal on street parking and one must accept that occasionally the track is blocked by accident/parked car or the vehicle is stuck in traffic. Keeping trams separated from the other traffic keeps em' rolling even if there are cars (parking, accidents or just traffic) blocking the road. Anyways, separated tracks tend to result in faster travel times and fewer unexpected events, such as accidents, close calls etc. improving reliability. For a bit of context: Helsinki announced a few days ago that they had had over 100 cases when a (incorrectly) parked car blocked the track (service stopped temporarily) in 1 week alone. Continuing the service meant that either the owner of the car (blocking the track) was found and moved their car, or the car was towed to a nearby street. The delay may be only 10-20 minutes at a time, but multiply that by 100 a week, that's a lot. There are 10-11 lines (depending on how you cont em') and a total of 38 km two-way track in Helsinki. Trams are better than buses as long as the demand justifies their use. Trams are more permanent, their service tends to be more frequent than buses', rides are smoother and boarding times are shorter. As a bonus, the weather doesn't affect them as much (usually they don't need anyone to plow the snow, track condition is relatively stable and trams in general can't run off the road. On the other hand trams are vulnerable to derailment (especially in accidents with heavy vehicles), they can't drive around parked cars, accidents etc and they are more costly to construct and maintain compared to rapid bus transit.

[@RickJaeger]

If you grade separate streetcars, then they're by definition not "streetcars." The primary difference between a streetcar and a non-streetcar light rail/urban transit is that they are traincars, which run on the street. The best you can do while letting them stay "streetcars" is to keep the streets they run on open to noncommercial, non-automobile traffic-pedestrians, cyclists, etc.

[@jan-lukas]

@@RickJaeger yeah, trams/LRV can actually run (slowly) through pedestrianized streets

[@cooper8357]

I think busses are good for low ridership corridors but that’s about it. Streetcars are probably the way to go for ground level, street transit. Although buses are good for helping alleviate congestion if streetcars ever get overwhelmed.

[@peterdrost4859]

A future suggestion for a topic: Toronto is an outlier city when it comes to transit in North America especially surface transit. Many of the busiest surface routes (30,000+) in North America are in Toronto which gets lost when comparing subway systems alone. I don't think many Torontonians know how unusual this is when it comes to public transportation. I enjoy the channel. Keep up the good work!

[@TheHothead101]

I see so many Toronto residents calling the TTC bad or complaining, but they don't realize that literally every GTHA region is in the stone-age for public transit

[@jameschampken2660]

Yeah Toronto actually has a massive transit system compared to most USA cities. However compared to many Europe cities or some Asian cities it's not that big. USA transit infrastructure is often just awful.

[@davidroddini1512]

Yeah, in my county in Ohio (mass transit is a county based system here) the *only* mass transit we have is buses and a given route is lucky if it gets more than one every 35-45 minutes between the hours of 6 am and 8 pm. There are almost no buses in the county whatever between 8 pm and 6 am. So yeah, Toronto natives don’t know how good they actually have it.

[@adammurphy6845]

You said it yourself, every mode of transit has its place! Great topic to talk about!!

[@interstellarphred]

A worn bus tire is hazmat a worn steel tram wheel is 100% recyclable

[@Aliceintraining]

you can however replace the tread on buss tires. to reuse them.

[@user-nd2tp5yv6l]

By the way, in Tokyo there is a Yurikamome line based on Mitsubishi Crystal Motor technology and according to Wikipedia it needs 80,000 passengers per day on a Line length of 14.7 km to be profitable. So 50,000 passengers per hour in one direction is a lot!

[@ShehuStebe]

This is genuinely the most wholesome community I've ever seen. Excellent video too.

[@walterkenedi5741]

Should Transit City have been Streetcar? a) Finch, Jane, Harbourfront and maybe Eglinton East -----> streetcar. b) SRT/Eglinton could have been mini-metro - either SkyTrain or what's planned for Ontario Line. c) Sheppard could have extension of subway, or conversion and extension with mini-metro. Toronto had Zero LRT - so maybe they should have got more streetcar and mini-metro as the solution?

[@imgursdownvote4love771]

When Calgary opened the Blue Line West, the areas it served went from getting insanely frequent service to having incredibly shitty service, especially off-peak. Perhaps if it had been a streetcar, it would be much better service?

[@MrAronymous]

For reference, I think the best of these new US streetcar system is Kansas City. The branding is integrated with the rest of the transit system (not branded like some toy), it has attractive modern design and real-time information systems, it's decently frequent throughout the day, it currently is free to use so doesn't have cumbersome US fare machines, the route is a straight line (they're adding a looped section at one end now but it's small and doesn't have many stops along that section), it mostly runs in the outer lanes (where it could potentially be obstructed by parked vehicles) but also has center-running sections, it actually goes FAST! unlike any other US streetcar system, it's currently being extended. The downsides would be that the stops aren't entirely level with the vehicle (just the middle section) and it isn't largely center-running, even on the recent extension along a wide road, it barely has exclusive lanes. If they'd have proposed grassy center-running tracks for the extension they'd have made the ultimate high capacity transit line that doubles as neighbourhood redevelopment and beautifying tool.

[@matteopennacchietti9831]

Hi Reece, really liked this video. Would you be able to do a video talking about what improvements you would like to see in the TTC streetcar system?

[@lukassvitek1432]

Great video with good solid concepts and ideas for our future

[@Theincredibledrummer]

Love your content! Any chance you could do a future of transit in Auckland, New Zealand? There's a lot to be excited about here

[@Theincredibledrummer]

@@RMTransit transport.govt.nz/assets/Uploads/Land/Documents/7bbf7cd0db/ATAP2018.pdf this is a good starting point as it outlines the planned improvements as currently agreed with the municipal government and central government. I'll see what else i can find

[@Theincredibledrummer]

@@RMTransit the Wikipedia page on public transport in Auckland also gives a good context on recent and ongoing improvements

[@counterfit5]

Take a shot every time he says "to be clear"

[@davidlee1279]

I died.

[@robertfrankitaliano1894]

If HAMILTON thought like this, it would STILL have its LITERAL Street Railway, rather than ONLY be 1 by NAME ONLY since 1951!

[@muyaho420]

Thanks to Doug Ford, no more LRT for Hamilton.

[@robertfrankitaliano1894]

He's a HORSE'S ass! I NEVER voted for him!

[@ketch_up]

Hamilton LRT is back on!

[@ketch_up]

Watch the LRT somehow not be part of the HSR.

[@robertfrankitaliano1894]

Praise God that LRT is back on!! I think it could be like the Eglinton Crosstown line, where it could be OWNED by Metrolinx, but OPERATED by HSR!

[@transitnetwork3049]

An average lifespan of a TTC bus is 14 years.

[@Nunavuter1]

The TTC is known for keeping buses alive longer than the typical North American transit agency. In some cases, buses have stayed in service beyond their 20th birthday. I actually rode a GM New Look during rush hour on the York University 196 route in 2011. I was surprised that any still existed in service. The bus was in pretty good shape too. Back in the 1990s, TTC General Manager David Gunn spearheaded a heavy rebuild of buses in Toronto. The system was too cash-strapped to buy many new buses, so hundreds of older buses underwent rebuilds to give them another decade of useful life.

[@imgursdownvote4love771]

@@Nunavuter1 okay, but check out other Canadian systems. Edmonton, Calgary, Vancouver, Victoria, and Winnipeg all had 1990's buses in service this year. All but Vancouver, Edmonton (and possibly Calgary) still do. Edmonton and Calgary also still have late-70s and early-80s LRVs in service

[@xhonkeri4066]

ImgursDownvote4Love Don’t forget about TTC Scarborough RT

[@pwhnckexstflajizdryvombqug9042]

William Johnston In Australia buses normally are given 21 year life spans.

[@lzh4950]

In some territories, buses' lifespans are also limited by legislation arising from concerns over their tailpipe emissions' I think e.g. 17 years in Singapore, where I'm from, though applications can be made to extend that to 20 years. Which is a bit ironic here as the country also has a system to limit it's car population that also makes it significantly less uneconomical to own cars fore more than 10 years, also due to concerns over tailpipe emissions. So the buses sometimes are significantly older than cars & have dirtier emissions e.g. until the early-mid 2010s, we operated Volvo B10Ms (Mk IV) that 'proudly' displayed 'Euro I' badges (referring to emissions standards set all the way back in the early 1990s)

[@BOOGE64]

Glad to be your newest patreon Reece. I believe that New York’s M-15 bus line, which goes down Second Avenue in the borough of Manhattan has a weekday ridership of 60,000. It will eventually be served by the long delayed completion of the Second Avenue Subway. The next extension to this will probably be under construction by next year.

[@isaac8880]

This needs to be introduced in Calgary! There's a big opportunity for streetcars here in many areas, and it would just fill in so many gaps in Calgary Transits network

[@tominator99988]

So in North America, all post auto rail based transit is built with the goal of spuring development. This is a good thing, in order to move people, you have to create places where people want to go and walk.

[@spyone4828]

It has it good and bad points. At the extreme, imagine building a transit station but then never having a vehicle service it. If the goal was to stimulated development, that might work, but if the goal was to move people it will definitely fail. Stimulating development is a fine goal, but the primary goal should always be to build a system that people actually use.

[@agntdrake]

I definitely agree that lightrail/pre-metro systems are a waste of money. Look at the Bay Area with Muni and VTA Lightrail and it's clear that they don't work well, and yet still cost a lot of money. The Central Subway in SF is a great example where it's over built and still not delivered despite years of setbacks, all for a train which won't be big enough the day service actually starts. I think the argument though is whether BRT systems like the 99-B line are sufficient _until_ you get to the point where you need an automated, grade separated light metro like Skytrain. My preference is definitely a system like Skytrain or Copenhagen Metro over something like Toronto's system, although I do have to say I think communities like Langley would probably be better served by an RER type service than extending Skytrain out that far.

[@synergy8462]

Septa's surface trolley lines has a system similar to Toronto's.

[@spyone4828]

The point about being able to go around accidents or disasters is that if the street is completely blocked, a bus can just go on a different street. A Streetcar is stuck on its tracks. And it isn't just accidents: in my city they are upgrading the stormdrains and sewer lines. As a result of this work, there is an intersection that has been closed for six months. If there were a bus route on that street, it could be detoured just like the cars are. If there were a streetcar on that street, that line would have been closed for six months and the folks who normally ride it would be going far out of their way or taking Uber. That said, it is precisely that flexibility of buses that makes the "permanence" argument for streetcars. Moving a bus line is as easy as taking a marker to a map, but a streetcar has to follow the tracks so if there are streetcar tracks in front of my business there are going to be streetcars going past as long as there is demand at both ends of that line.

[@willy4170]

What about introducing a replacement buses until tram routes reopen?

[@eno3085]

In my Hometown we run the Trams or "Straßenbahn" (Streettrain) like we call it here in the side of the Street or the middle in dedicated lanes. We also use this space in which the Tram Rails lay to make green Tram-Rails with grass around the rails. It looks way better, helps the Co² and overall temperature, also it reduces the noise of the trams by ~40%. Trams are realy a great mode of transit especially paired with good bus links to less urbanised regions. It all depends on the way transit is linked to another and not the mode itselfe. PS: My city is also investing around 100 Million € in the next years to double its Tram Network and extend it to other comunities. This is done with the combining of the City-wide Tram and more regional Trainnetworks so trams operate on Trainines as Trains and when in a specific spot (at my city the Central Station) it switches the wiring mode and operates as Tram. And I personaly think that this is a genius way of a mixed mode of transportation.

[@muhmuhmuhmusic]

The most successful recent US "systems" treat the route like a horizontal elevator. See Milwaukee, Kansas City, and Miami's Metromover (PeopleMover, but same idea). There's free fares and frequent service, but the main point is to extend a transit hub into the CBD. Riders come in from a bus depot or intercity rail station, as well as from the various parking garages. The idea is a distributor service that makes other transit services more useful by extending the hub to doorsteps. The concept doesn't always work, such as Denver's 16th Street Mall, but it can serve a useful function within the larger system beyond economic development.

[@lordsleepyhead]

A transit loop can make sense if it's a sort of looping thing a route does at the very end and then quickly gets back to its trunk route. Like, you'll have a main corridor, but then it enters a suburb, loops around through the suburb, and then exits the suburb back onto the trunk route for the return trip. Think of a dumbell. A narrow middle part with wide parts on either end.

[@ognjensijak989]

Belgrade has an intricate system of trams, busses and trolley busses. A metro was planned since the 1950's but still nothing has been done (except for two stations)

[@motokims]

Great video! You’ve changed my mind.

[@volrosku.6075]

When your brought up buses that are stuffed in Toronto the 7 Bathurst came to mind for me. Covid is having an effect but from Bathurst Station to typically St Claire but sometimes as far as Lawrence is at near capacity. Am I saying it needs a street car... maybe I'd like a street car between Bathurst stn and St Clair W Station with the 7 continuing from St Claire W to Steeles and Bathurst.

[@DwainRichardson]

Quite the interesting debate surrounding streetcars and buses! Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I never stopped to think about how sensible streetcars could be vis-à-vis light rail transit or bus systems. Do you think streetcar service should return to parts of cities such as Montreal? Does Montreal have the infrastructure to accommodate new streetcar routes? Where do you think these routes can be implemented? It would be nice for you to present a video on this topic. What about trolley buses? I see Vancouver has some electric trolley buses in some sectors. I am old enough to remember the time Toronto ditched its trolley bus network. Might you think trolleys can come back to T.O., or are they forever extinct? Could a mix of trains, buses, and trolleys be possible in a city like Montreal? I’d be interested in hearing your thoughts on this matter in a video. (-:

[@RMTransit]

Haha lots to think about, I definitely think a city like YUL with lots of moderate density would really suit streetcars! Maybe I'll just make this video haha!

[@roberthuron9160]

This little bit of info,should go to the heart of the problem! ITEM;THE AAR,did a note on horse power/ weight production,and friction. Simply, to move one ton(at sea level),you need 400HP,in air;40HP,on a road,and 4HP,on railroads! Guess which gets the highest subsidies! Also Toronto and Montreal systems had motor- trailer sets on their high density routes! In Toronto,that was replaced by MU,streetcars(PCC's), on the Bloor-Danforth, they were running 90 second headway in mixed traffic!! There was a book put out by the ERA, and you might see if the TTC,still has a copy! Otherwise maybe the main library might have it! The data in the book shows headways,track maps(including the subway), and other useful info! There are two books put out on the Boston system, by the Boston Street Railway Association,and they cover the 1940's,and the 1950's,which gives you an idea of an extremely old subway operation! The Park Street line was opened in 1897, and also had MU PCC's( 3 car trains), and you can't do that with busses!

[@HenryMidfields]

I think one case where dedicated bus rapid transit (similar to Bogota) might have their place instead of streetcars could be in earthquake-prone areas like some Japanese cities, where live wires could become safety risks. Not just in terms of evacuations, but also from debris from say timber structures catching fire. I do agree with the ride qualities - you really need to hang onto the grab rails on a bus in Sydney (the one in *New South Wales, not New Scotland* ). I learnt this the hard way when I was commuting along Parramatta Road along the Inner West suburbs. The bus driver would floor the gas and brake pedals just to keep up with the schedule in a sea of cars, trucks, and other buses using the same section of the road in the morning.

[@RMTransit]

You can easily have live wires shut off if an earthquake is detected, though I agree with your other points

[@HenryMidfields]

@@RMTransit A shut-off mechanism would indeed be one of the first things to consider in designing safety into the electricity system for a LRT/streetcar, yes. PS Have you been to either Sydneys?

[@peterehrlich1186]

(Corrected) Why don't you like the American streetcar? As a former streetcar motorman (San Francisco's F-Line), I find them to be viable tools for safe and sensible transportation, as well as being major contributors to their cities' transportation footprint.i Milwaukee'sHOP and the systems in Portland and Kansas City fit that bill perfectly.

[@btomimatsucunard]

I agree with you 100% and cannot help but think of the controversies in LA regarding the proposed DTLA streetcar. It serves a loop that already has a subway/light rail on the west side, a transit dense corridor on the east, and a route on the south that has little to no transit. I've heard the argument that its a way to put a starter system down before expanding, but what I question is why not just create a system proposal and build it. We know what routes the former Yellow Cars ended with in the 60's, and for the most part those routes still are fairly dense, and currently are served poorly by buses.

[@middletransport]

Wait why does DTLA want a streetcar? Aren’t they already building a tunnel to connect the two light rail corridors? (Gold + Blue/ Expo)

[@btomimatsucunard]

@@middletransport tbh I’ve heard everything from a revitalization (redevelopment) tool, to creating a starter network for a more walkable and transit dense downtown area.

[@johannessamuelsson6578]

My home city in northern Sweden (about 90 000 residents and 7 million yearly bus riders) had a circular bus line in the early 2000's, it was dropped after three yerars of operation. But today our two main bus routes have a bit of a congestion problem. The number 1 and 8 routes are operated with articulated buses at ten minute headways off-peak, having to move to seven-minute headways during the peak. The number 1 bus is most affected since it serves the city's largest high school with around 2 000 students. It is actually possible to build a tram-train line along the major street that runs west of downtown with two possible junctions to the raliway, depending on the desired effects as well as intermodality. Alternative 1: Branch from the railway just after leaving the East station, follow the route of the number 1 bus, thus making the entire southwestern portion of that bus route redundant. redundant Alternative 2: Branch off west of the Central station, begin street running through a small suburb before cnnecting to the major street that is Regional Road 632. This bypasses the high school and would only serve residnts of the western suburbs going to/from the East Station/University Hospital interchange, but might be the most effective in alleviating congestion on the trunk section where all the routes interline through East Downtown. But this project has a slight infrastructural problem - well, actually two. Since the street is only two lanes wide, you'd have to divert traffic elsewhere while building the street tracks. You'd also have to use a ground-level power supply system in the street sections due to sidewalk limitations.

[@Croz89]

Some transit systems seem to be trying to be an LRV or a tram depending on what part of the route they are on. The problem with that is it often results in a compromise in terms of vehicles, frequency and infrastructure. Manchester has these huge high floor "trams" which carry about the same number of people as a large bus but are significantly longer. These can go pretty fast on the LRV sections of the track which have proper light rail style stations and signalling, but have to crawl along the twisty tram sections which have a lot of sharp corners and road sharing, either with pedestrians or cars. Stations take up a lot of space even in the city centre with the need for raised platforms and the ability to take the double length vehicles which are needed because of the low capacity. As a result it can take longer to cross the quite small CBD than to travel the whole length from the origin station to the CBD. Even outside it tram sections on other parts slow the lines down as well. I'm hoping we do the same as Stuttgart in the future and work towards getting rid of as much of the tram like sections as possible.

[@lzh4950]

Stuttgart's system (_Stadtbahn_) is smoother IMO as it's downtown stretches are underground, unlike Manchester's system (Metrolink) which is at-grade

[@Croz89]

@@lzh4950 Which is precisely what would improve Metrolink. Tunnels between Piccadilly, Victoria and Deansgate would be a great start, moving the busiest tracks underground and a lot of the street running parts.

[@nathandavidowicz3721]

A very good story about Toronto, should show other cities as well. The other Canadian Cities that discontinue the Streetcars are not as good as Toronto, but will they ever bring them back? I doubt it. Vancouver does not even have enough articulated buses to serve all the busy routes. They still allow lots of parking in the West End the highest of any ridership per km. they actually discouraging passengers from the West End to take a short trip one to two km to their workplace in Downtown, more people walk to work because of bad bus service to the West End {the most densely area in Canada. ) Passengers want a fast reliable service for short trips under 4km and Streetcars are the best.

[@adamkatolik1633]

I find the ridership experience of low floor streetcars is much better than "low floor" buses because these buses are often not truly low floor as there are things that stick up for wheels, engines, and other systems. Moreover, streetcars can be longer and have more doors. FInally much quieter (although might change with electric buses)

[@miowname]

You have a very good insight into transit and part of what's missing in the equation is that people love only one system and they don't realize that public transit which the word public means for everyone is transit for everyone transit consists of cars carpool vans Van pull bicycles people and then you're left with busses trolley busses trams And then on up to light rail Subway which is heavy rail is there a place for all of it yes absolutely but it has to be integrated all together and that's part of the problem we don't Have an integrated system that we work together on. And that's what we need to do we need to have public transit work together in one system so that everyone benefits

[@walterkenedi5741]

Great Show. Questions: 1. Can streetcars run on right lane? a) Pedestrians can more easily board without waiting in middle of road, or worrying about getting run over (especially when getting off). b) As you said, ban parking (or does anywhere have parking in the median of road?). Also, left turns only (due to turning radius).

[@lemonade4181]

It makes right turns tighter, and can sometimes block driveways. Toronto does have a line like this, but it runs along the waterfront, and both tracks are on the side closest to the water, meaning that a turn would be easier because there is only one way to turn.

[@EmyrDerfel]

Zagreb's main east-west street carries trams in both directions, with a third lane in the middle that is used for [un]loading outside of peak hours.

[@anthony_hugo]

Unsure if you’ve ever done a deep dive, but the Kansas City, Missouri Streetcar might be one of the best examples of a true streetcar system in the unites states that serves a transit function, and will serve one in the future. While development was also a main driving force, it has a straight alignment, is working on multiple extensions to population centers, as well as destinations, and serves a spine system to complement the bus system of the city. I’d be interested to hear about your thoughts on a deep dive at some point!

[@RipCityBassWorks]

Wouldn't it be better to have actual grade separated light rail or even a full metro than a streetcar? I'm from Portland, and the streetcars have always seemed like a half-measure to me: politicians want increased public transportation use without funding grade separated light rail so we end up with at grade streetcars. Yes, the streetcars have a higher capacity than buses, but they don't come any more frequently and they aren't any faster...

[@lzh4950]

Having traffic light-priority for trams/streetcars might be a possible compromise? When one of them is detected as having stopped near a traffic light for passengers to alight/board, the light turns to red. So when passengers are done boarding/alighting there's less time left for the tram to wait at that red traffic light

[@jaydenmeertins3415]

The right of way system on 512, 509, 510 are amazing! Also when the 501 Lakeshore broke down residents said they buses were faster but the economic gain that the streetcar caused for example the Humber Bay Shores condo boom!

[@CharlsonS]

Streetcars should be transit and not some toy for economic development though

[@jaydenmeertins3415]

@@CharlsonS Oh yes highly agreed! In Canada we don't really build transit unless we need the capacity compared to US cities that built 3km routes to boost housing and condos and commerical but generally failed due to lack of ridership. Cincinnati, Detroit, Oklahoma City, Atlanta,

[@elroysterckx242]

Europe is now building metro instead or (Idk how you call it in America) S bahn/RER networks wich are heavy rail LRT basically.

[@cardenasr.2898]

It's known as Commuter Rail in the US

[@LunaDragofelis]

what's cool about Istanbul's Metrobüs BRT system is that it's designed to work with (and not against) bunching. This allows very high, sub-minute frequencies. For example, the platforms fit multiple buses at once.

[@samanli-tw3id]

Still a rail-borne transit is necessary for a city whose population exceeds 1 million.

[@michaelsegal3558]

Right now in Toronto near where I live some streetcar routes are having to be using shuttle busses part way of the route because of construction on the streetcar line for example currently on the 501 Queen streetcar route in Toronto at Parliament Street you have to get off the streetcar and wait for a shuttle bus if you want to continue down the 501 Queen line because for right now until further notice the Streetcar goes off route at Parliament Street because of construction on the line

[@graycosmics5408]

I think they should make streetcar routes on the Waterloo region university corridor because the bus capacity is not enough as the buses are packed constantly and ion lrt doesn’t serve this area that much except for the university of Waterloo stop

[@OtakuUpNorth]

That actually makes a lot of sense. However, with all the redevelopment on the northern end of King, and the fact that the 201 is the second busiest corridor after the old 200 route (now iON), it would make sense to convert the university avenue to Conestoga mall route to LRT. University is wide enough to accommodate it. Maybe not now, but in a few years when they are well into the Cambridge extension I could see them planning for it as a stage 3. However, I would be willing to bet that they would pilot it as a iON bus route first.

[@quarringtonz231]

I think ION has a low ridership

[@graycosmics5408]

Zetong Z The Ion is pretty successful if you ask me for the first couple of months as it carries almost 20,000 a day in comparison the O-Train has about the same amount a day and the Ottawa Metropolitan area is double of Waterloo region’s population. Also Ottawa has way more capacity and is fully grade separated and we are doing the same as them when ion isn’t fully grade separated. So I think that it is has been a success so far

[@quarringtonz231]

GrayCosmic you’re right, my bad.

[@imgursdownvote4love771]

I think they should make ION a streetcar system. It already basically is one anyways

[@michaelstevens2749]

First of all, I love your channel and I LOVE the content in this video and everything you guys do is extremely well researched. Personally I feel that LRT has been marketed incorrectly in a lot of systems as a Streetcar masquerading as a RAPID transit solution - which has left a bad taste in everyone's mouth. I have some suggestions for you! Is there any chance more infographics or maps could be shown during these videos? It's awesome that you guys show face and include your own video footage of various systems but I think that to strengthen your points you could include more graphics such as including the approved Broadway extension when you were discussing the 99-B line. This also helps to keep things more visually dynamic as well. A quick screenshot of some of the systems you were talking about could go a long way :) . Now for content: - Vancouver's Arbutus line. Maybe a cost and effect analysis on it? I think that the Arbutus line is the most interesting LRT system being proposed in Canada because most of it is grade-separated and then it transitions into a streetcar-like system when it enters OV. This would reintroduce streetcars back into Vancouver that has an extremely far reach. - Edmonton's LRT (or just accident-prone LRT) vs Toronto's Streetcar system. For me I find it super strange that Toronto's streetcars experience a lot less accidents than Edmonton's LRT and I want to speculate the reasons behind that as Toronto's streetcars are located in a denser city and has a lot more grade-integrated track. Thanks again for the great video and I hope that you guys keep it up!

[@jtsholtod.79]

Love this content. Not trying to be obtuse (I love streetcars and the various iteration of light and heavy rail), but if a Nova or New Flyer articulated bus can hold 85-95% of the maximum capacity of the Flexity Outlook, is nearly identical in width, and were afforded the same rights of way as streetcars (which should help a bit with comfort), why aren't they viewed more favorably (in general)? They cost one fifth to purchase despite only lasting a third of the life. I would love to see a citation for an operational cost study, because I think a lot depends on the need for new or existing infrastructure. I still think each has its place, and I would love to see more trolleys return to the streets if nothing else (although I don't miss the huge webs of overhead wires). Thanks for the thought-provoking video.

[@lzh4950]

In my city (Singapore) I think trams might be the most cost-effective where stretches of multiple bus routes that overlap one another for significant lengths e.g. on busier roads are replaced with a single tram route, reducing the number of drivers and vehicles needed on the roads. The politically unpopular part of this proposal might be that commuters of those bus routes might seen their journeys broken up in-between by the tram, requiring additional transfers that might be regarded as more troublesome

[@artano2582]

For me, and in my experience, for both busses and streetcars mixed use is problematic in *most* NA cities. So many times I have seen cars in a dedicated bus lane or on team/streetcar/surface rail tracks. I love the idea of a BRT/surface rail or streetcars/local busses, but until NA drivers as a whole learn to share the road, a separate, dedicated right of way is needed. And if you are doing that, might as well install a Metro style system. Austin, Texas has this problem. Even downtown, where there are dedicated bus lanes, there are always delays from mixed use causes.

[@maxwellsmith9988]

I think that BRT is best when trying to improve a bus line, not just downgrading a rail line

[@HesterClapp]

Are they better? Yes. Are they *always* better? No.

[@The98597thMark]

I live in Melbourne and honestly, the real advantage of trams in mixed traffic is just that they're so much more visible and legible than buses. This makes a HUGE difference. But they're certainly not, objectively, a higher level of service. When a tram line's shut down for maintenance (or strikes), replacement buses are put on and they get everyone around faster, more reliably and much more frequently than the tram does. And yet ridership on the replacement buses seems incredibly low. Because the legibility of trams makes a huge difference.

[@tronicman1]

In Berlin, everyone HATES bus replacement services. The busses are usually overcrowded, slow, stand in traffic jam instead of just going on their own track, like the tramway, and as I often saw myself need 20 to 40 minutes for a 6-minute-ride with the tramway.

[@jameschampken2660]

I find the TTC busses move faster then the Streetcars, however the busses are uglier, and much smaller, I find often more over crowded. Also a lot of TTC bus routes I don't even know where they go, yet the streetcars I know all the routes. So it is true for me that the Streetcars visibly are easier to knowing where it will take me, I know where the tracks go.

[@gregessex1851]

If you want to get really confused about transport needs on a light rail system, try to explain the Newcastle Light Rail 2.7km system

[@RMTransit]

Interesting! I will take a look

[@samwells4095]

This is definitely true. The only place that I think that streetcars are a bit of a failure is Edinburgh in Scotland. The project runs from Edinburgh Airport to downtown, the project was delayed and also constantly changing with regards to extension plans, none of which have gone ahead. The other problem is the speed and road crowding, the busier portion in the city is very slow, and buses run along that portion making it really slow and congested. It also takes almost an hour from end to end, whereas the bus from the Airport to downtown run much quicker.

[@michaelsegal3558]

8:08 it’s my favourite used video game store A&C Games

[@apoet7738]

Would you consider the valley metro light rail in Phoenix a light metro

[@jamesfermanis4099]

There are Streetcars ,then there's Light Rail .Melbourne has the most extensive Streetcar(Tram) network in the World,and moves millions a day Light rail now with in all Capitals has envigorated many dying CBD precincts with closed Mall development as well,reducing the near gridlocked inner cities .

[@MattMcIrvin]

Boston is an interesting case in that the MBTA mixes legacy streetcar lines with heavy metro lines as functionally part of the same network. And the streetcar lines are actually the latest ones to get expanded. Only a very tiny portion of the Boston system is still running in traffic lanes, and some parts are even grade-separated (the D line is fully grade-separated, and the downtown trunk runs through the oldest subway tunnel in North America), so the tendency seems to be to want to treat it as an LRT line. But the biggest portion of it (by number of stops at least) is running on the surface on median rights-of-way with traffic crossings. Though I do have to say that for Bostonians, given everything that's happened, the psychological permanence of streetcar lines isn't great... Given the general political situation in the US, a new era of ripping out transit lines for ideological revenge isn't an impossibility.

[@australiasindustrialage689]

Have you got any sources that compare the costs of operating either trams, LRT or BRT?

[@tecjag]

The previous Surrey city council wanted to build a streetcar (but they called it LRT) along Fraser Hwy and King George. Without dedicated lanes (doing so would not be accepted by constituents). The R1 RapidBus can carry as many people as their planned LRT could at a much lower cost. I would, however, like them to build full BRT stations at stops along the route.

[@tecjag]

Also, with the rest of the lower mainland getting proper SkyTrain built (Canada Line not withstanding), people felt like Surrey wasn't getting the investments it deserved.

[@evanm225]

Have you ever thought about doing a video on the Kansas City Streetcar? It is a true streetcar with minimal infrastructure just like you talked about in this video. It runs north/south up and down Main Street.

[@XxxXxx-fm3wo]

I wanted Winnipeg to use a tram, but BRT is what they have for now. I see the benefits of both and buses are good for what they do but the ride is not a smooth one. If capacity is large and frequency is there like in Toronto they work from downtowns to midtown and server higher populated areas. But if the capacity isn't there then they server very few people and become combersum on roads. I like the idea to use them as a tramway instead of LRT in low density city like Winnipeg. The biggest rush is football games at the stadium and Trams can run close together so the biggest concern is loading and unloading. If the station at the Stadium can accommodate four two car streetcars or eight single street cars. This would work. I say Winnipeg would have enjoyed streetcars and how today they can have tunnels and bridges and ways all which help keep them off the street and share dedicated bus malls when ever possible. Streetcars that hardly see much "street" why I call it Tram.

[@AMTFan1]

Agree with everything you say here! :)

[@Txkato]

in hamburg, germany there are some massively overcrowded buslines that would definitly be better served by tram. some 61,000 people use line 5 of the bus network daily, for a long time double-articulated busses ran on this route every 5 minutes off-peak and every 3 minutes on peak to meet the demand. at some point busses just aren't really able to keep up with the demand

[@MarioFanGamer659]

To make it even worse, the Harburg borough in the south is barely served by rail, having only one S-Bahn line and otherwise only buses. It actually is the perfect place to install a tram.

[@CZpersi]

Each of the vehicles has its characteristics that make it suitable to specific conditions. There are places with tight curves and steep slopes where trams are not suitable and busses or trolleys, for example, can do the job better.

[@Token_Nerd]

Addenum on the age of buses, these days, buses only last about 12 years before replacement, not 20. If you get 35 years out of one LRV, you end up saving around 1.5 M dollars having to buy 9 buses over buying just 1 streetcar. There are actually some cities that do streetcar operations that rival or are even better than Toronto in their downtown cores - those being Boston, Philly, and San Francisco. Their benefit is that they have downtown tunnels so that they don't get stuck in traffic. Philly also has a surface streetcar line serving the urban core of Girard. I'd make the argument that Streetcars actually serve medium-sized city cores (like Harrisburg PA, Tulsa OK, OKC, Kansas City, etc) better than large-sized city cores (like Philadelphia, Chicago, or even cities like Toronto, Cleveland, St. Louis and Pittsburgh). In those cities, the denser neighborhoods are what need the streetcar services. That being said, I wish more cities would take part in the current Toronto streetcar model. Not every line that runs through a core has to be in a tunnel. One of the reasons modern streetcar networks are built as loops is because a lot of urban cores in the United States (and Canada for that matter. Cities like Hamilton come to mind) have massive one-way grids. Changing these is politically infeasible and potentially confusing. These streets can definitely do without 2-4 streets for only cars, but convincing suburbanites to allow that change to happen would be almost impossible.

[@lzh4950]

Singapore has many 1-way roads in downtown and inner suburban areas too but they are often arranged in alternating fashion, so bi-directional bus services (& by extension trams too, if we have them in the future) can serve these areas conveniently by travelling on a neighbouring 1-way road for the return trip

[@DanielP-jq4dj]

The thing I like about streetcars over buses is that they’re always fixed on a rail, which makes their movement pattern more predictable for passengers, whereas buses can move wherever they want and might not even be on the street the passenger expects. On the flip side though, because streetcars are forced to stay on the rails, they can’t bypass road work or automobile accidents like buses can, so they have no choice but to cut off a huge chunk of the streetcar line, whereas a bus has the freedom to bypass the road closure to only cut off a few stops. I just wish my city, Baltimore, would use temporary bus stops for longer term road closures, rather than leaving a huge gap between open stops like they always do.

[@rossbleakney3575]

A couple things worth mentioning in favor of buses: First, they are more bike friendly. It takes extra effort to protect bikes from surface rail, and most North American cities fail (Toronto still has issues -- it isn't Amsterdam). Second, bus service is just more flexible. This is often seen as a negative, but I view it as a positive. Changing a bus route is trivial, which means that it can be altered for various reasons, as the city changes. It can adjust to increased development in one area, or as part of building a much better network. This can be done with streetcars, but it is far more expensive. Streetcars (like all rail) are far more of a "measure twice, cut once" proposition.

[@trevorwhitten5663]

As much as getting stuck in a streetcar track does suck, as a cyclist I personally prefer the predictability of streetcars when sharing the road with them. Unlike buses which change lanes and can make sudden turns, also the exhaust fumes.

[@rossbleakney3575]

@@trevorwhitten5663 I'm used to Seattle, where so many of the buses run under wire (exhaust, what exhaust?*). But yeah, a streetcar won't change lanes. Still, I think that having a problem with either is rare, whereas having a problem with the tracks themselves (especially with cars) is not. The city can make them safer (by moving the cars around, and changing the angles) but that requires more work, and more sacrifice (for drivers) that a lot of cities aren't willing to do. In some cases the change would be dramatic (e. g. closing off a street for all cars). * OK, we have our share of diesel buses, but most are fairly clean now (and operate as hybrids).

[@deanonesense]

When I think "streetcar", I think a single rail vehicle with no couplings moving extremely slowly though a heavily pedestrianized area with no doors and no stops with people just getting on and off while it's moving. Short, narrow and barely wider than the boogies, possibly on a wider than standard gauge. Possibly fully automatic. Possibly allowing people to board at the front or back. No pointy bits, and lots of pool noodles.

[@ericyoung8833]

I’m much more in favor of streetcar or light rail vs Bus Rapid Transit here in Oakland California. Especially since we once hadLight Rail on International Blvd (Formally E.14th). Back when we had the Key System.

[@CommunistLenin]

I am feeling that is time to introduce the idea of tram and light rail to the america continent. Tram is something that mostly mixed with street traffic. Light Rail is something that mostly have it's own right of way. Using streetcars to describe those two different type of rail is just confusing.

[@spyone4828]

It's not that we don't have those systems here already, it's that we tend to mix them. Norfolk, Virginia built a "light rail" route that runs in it's own right of way for several miles, about half it's distance, and then runs through downtown in the traffic lanes of city streets. Half train, half tram, one vehicle. And the vehicle chosen isn't really good at either of the jobs that were given to it.

[@Kahoobb]

Why can't we replace all busses with streetcars? At least the BRT busses we can replace right?

[@MirorR3fl3ction]

Streetcars are that much better than Buses imo (as someone who lives on a streetcar line in Toronto), HOWRVER, LRT's are significantly better than both Streetcars and Buses. Streetcars are kinda halfway between Buses and LRT's, so they have some benefits of both but also some issues that Buses and LRT's dont have (like not being able to get around traffic or just not having traffic to compete with). The good thing is that at this point more and more Streetcar lines on the TTC are basically LRT's, like the Queensway section of the Queen 501 line, the Lakeshore 509 line, and to some degree the section of the King 504 line between Jarvis and Bathurst (though there are huge issues with enforcement of the vehicle traffic rules atm).

[@lordsleepyhead]

Also, running a steel wheeled vehicle on steel rails costs just way less energy. Like, way more efficient per passenger.

[@danielbrockerttravel]

I’m surprised by how many bus riders argue that rail is a waste of money and we shouldn’t invest in it until we invest more in buses. A housing advocate said it’s not worth the trade offs. But service quality is a trade off.

[@Katniss218]

As someone who lives in Poland, I agree, trams are better than busses

[@leonantransitspotter]

Both have their own place, but trams have better capacity and are more susteinable

[@Aragorn.Strider]

Maybe its useful to also look at the Dutch transport system, like in Amsterdam or Rotterdam. Lots of trams, sometimes every 3 minutes. Always priority. And of course we have a ton of bicycles. I'm not so sure this would work in cities build for cars like in the US, but it's a total different perspective nonetheless. In Amsterdam, I know the extra length of trams helps a lot

[@RMTransit]

Oh for sure, I love Amsterdam and it’s trams, such a great system

[@samanli-tw3id]

@@RMTransit Amsterdam is one of the cities ill-suited for car use.

[@juliandowney7854]

i think the accident argument is more about moving to a different street that can go around, not switching lanes

[@davidhopkins]

Thanks for these interesting videos. I totally disagree with you on this one. I spent a year in Toronto and loathed the streetcars. 1. As a cyclist I wiped out on the slippery tracks several times and any time I made a turn over the multiple tracks at big intersections I was afraid. At the time I was a hardcore cyclist. I wager those tracks spook many people out of alternative transport and into cars. 2. I recall being in businesses when a streetcar would pass and the entire store would shake. I found the heavy streetcars quite disruptive. 3. I recall seeing them get caught in traffic. You downplay the issue but I recall the streetcars were regularly being slowed by cars that might stick a few inches into the streetcar lane. Here in Vancouver our trolley buses can dodge around obstacles. Speaking of Vancouver, the 99 B line is a massive success in my view. That bus moves far faster than the streetcars do. I welcome all these new R lines we are getting.

[@georgegong6813]

Perhaps I'm the odd person out on this one. I believe yes there is room for both. Also though coming from San Francisco maintenance is done routinely on BART nightly as one of their reasons for not operating owl service. As for MUNI Metro it would help their reliability if they operated more so on private right of way & not sharing the road with other vehicles. Finally too yes buses are more flexible around obstructions like accidents or fires. Then too though one can consider these as once in awhile incidents all it takes is one. Long term construction as well including what appears to be upgrades or maintenance late night on Muni Metro systems closing systems down much more longer then the norm, it's not totally maintenance free. Finally when electricity is out which happens also frequently what comes to the rescue but the bus! Likewise when it comes to ferry boats or in San Francisco, Cable Cars. No it shouldn't be one against the other. Both have their strengths & yes weaknesses.

[@tecjag]

You didn't mention that TransLink found that LRT vehicles would need to have been as long as a city block in order to serve the 99 B-Line route.