Are Teslas Actually Better For The Environment?

[@EngineeringExplained]

People love to talk about the emissions associated with electric car production, or the materials and disposal of batteries. I'd encourage you to watch these videos before making assumptions. Production Emissions: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bIPLpZyGmsuJsK8 Battery Production/Disposal: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z567hICtj7qcebc

[@Anankin12]

I'm missing the source of the papers you cite; is it me who can't read or did you forget to source them?

[@Anankin12]

In other words: pls sauce me daddy °^°

[@BobMonkeypimp]

What about shipping the materials?

[@clevernduruza8624]

@@Moontrue1on1 whell the oil has to be dug an refined also

[@rmkscrambler]

The biggest problem is people assume that carbon emissions are a bad thing. What they fail to understand is that just like the water cycle the earth has a carbon cycle which must take place. Just like the water cycle. If we don't produce carbon emissions the earth will.

[@YommiOfficial]

"Even the WORST Electric car on the market" *Audi, visibly nervous*

[@williamg4524]

@@Contrailing new leads are nice

[@haj5856]

@@Contrailing He means in terms of efficiency though

[@toyotaprius79]

@@Contrailing the Zoe is streets ahead of the LEAF. You yankeedoodles don't have it.

[@anow1693]

Geoff from top gear lol

[@bazoo513]

:o)

[@bushnut8305]

I noticed that you didn’t include human powered. How far can you travel on a cup of soup vs a cup of gas?

[@dr_jaymz]

You can work it out. The calories / energy are on the packet. I don't think it's particularly efficient given that running your brain and body uses most of your energy and only a tiny amount goes into mechanical output.

[@Hilife23]

💀💀💀

[@AngelGomez-qz8iq]

James Cross woosh

[@darkmatterstudioshalifax]

Certain soups make me gassy...

[@dr_jaymz]

@@bosstowndynamics5488Thought it was interesting so had a look. I found a study that measured cycling 1km = 26g CO2. Which makes it better than a car, except it doesn't scale well. A car can carry 4 people. A fit person can produce about 150W of sustained power but they consume 100W doing nothing so at least third is overhead - plus you have to keep feeding a human even when they are not pedalling you to work. If food is derived from farmed meat it looks catastrophically bad in terms of emissions especially methane which is 25x worse than CO2. If thats not bad enough you're obliged to wear cycling shorts and have a bad attitude and life is too short anyway to be made shorter by getting squished by a prat in a Range Rover.

[@mikes2381]

Which is most efficient? Tesla, x ,y, z, etc. "Hold on, let me handicap the Tesla to make this comparison more fair." 4 min later: now on top of that I'm going to round up the efficiency of gas production by 8.3% Annnd the electric still wins by more than 15%

[@lemongavine]

Mike Stromecki he was smart to do that. Otherwise, the haters would hammer him so, giving the benefit of the doubt and still losing gives them no leg to stand on.

[@dreadone6894]

David DiStefano go Tesla :)

[@alexanderwittstock3503]

@@dreadone6894yea boi

[@lylestavast7652]

that 90% is generous by at least 5% from anything I've read.

[@andrewgutmann9432]

You completely ignored the smug emissions associated with the typical Tesla owner, though. I own a Tesla 🙃

[@Markle2k]

Those also go down with time as better and better EVs are adopted.

[@DarkPhoenixTSi]

@Andrew Gutmann You. sir, win the internet!!

[@bespinoza66]

Do you drink your own farts too? Lol

[@padmanabhaprasannasimha5385]

Smug emissions mainly come from hybrids though don't they??

[@martialman.4563]

I supercharge near a Mexican restaurant and all the money saved goes to lunch. He did not account for my increased emissions. People of Columbus TX know.

[@chrisfix]

As usual, awesome job presenting the facts!

[@Viages]

ChrisFix hey guys , chrisfix here ! 😂😂

[@AKKBL]

ChrisFix love your videos dude

[@PitchUpCampsiteReviews]

Here's some facts for you @ChrisFix and undeniable ones at that. The same repetitive psychological iterations which have culminated in you being able to read my comment and indeed write yours are being deployed via TV and radio to directly influence your behaviour. They do this via your subconscious mind the very same subconscious mind which allows individuals to sleep walk and sleep talk or if you wish to see it actively taking control over yourself then of course a methodical task being performed in silence will facilitate the conditions for your subconscious mind to play music in your head and you either sing, hum or tap objects with your hands or feet. It's not my guess that TV and radio is directly manipulating your behaviour it's a fact you can easily prove when you take into account that it was exactly repetition which culminated in you being able to read this and I'll be willing to bet anything on it that music is what influences everyone reading this whether it's them putting the radio on or the subconscious mind picking up on radio someone else near by is listening to. Turn off your TV and radio and you'll find the real you's not the one which that radio has been repeatedly throughout your entire lives curtailing via the same repetition which allowed you to read this.

[@oceanwaves83]

HEY *GUYS*

[@justarandomweeb3220]

UPLOAD A VIDEO BROO

[@Lightning9060]

God damn electic cars would be great in New Zealand, 85% of our electricity generation is renewable 😁

[@GAMEVIDSnorwegian422]

98% in Norway 😂

[@lenesutesting]

It is now, but how about when everyone is on electric? You'd need gas power plants to cower the electricity deficit

[@KingOfForest22]

@@lenesutesting why would there be an electricity deficit? NZ barely has 5 million people...

[@KendrickMan]

@@lenesutesting do renewable naysayers even try to be correct on the internet?

[@arminddzemajli7845]

@@KendrickMan as you can see yes

[@jitinvp3358]

Absolutely love this channel. Really appreciate the depth of research done and the delivery of the information

[@EngineeringExplained]

Thank you!

[@pqm4889]

@Engineering Explained bravo sir, well done. What we really need next is a detailed video showing the benefits of retrofitting all of our current cars with battery drive systems just like the Omaze Beetle. Why produce millions of entire new cars when we can just retrofit a battery and drive system? It seems that would be the best use of limited resources. As you know, there are plenty of mom and pop shops already doing this...we just need the big players to contribute.

[@nc3826]

@@EngineeringExplained Absolutely love this channel too, but your posts have become more about entertainment than engineering... since their are to many varied parameters (such as picking NG vs coal), in the real world than what was used in your oversimplified example.... this is why real engineers don;t get sucked down these types of political "rabbit holes"... that have no definitive answer.... for a counter narrative But at least they are amusing :)

[@jitinvp3358]

@Genghis Chuan good point. I did think about it too. Maybe a follow-up video on emissions of production of these cars? I think i heard a story of how making a Prius gives off the same amount of emissions a Range Rover gives off in 10-20 years?

[@adrianburmester1159]

@@jitinvp3358 He is way ahead of you ;) The links to the production-related videos are linked in the description as well as in his pinned comment

[@diffieq]

Video posted the same day John B Goodenough wins Nobel prize of chemistry for invention of lithium ion cell. 😀

[@hugolafhugolaf]

Well, these batteries aren’t... goodenough!

[@chrischong6613]

Damn, for a guy named Goodenough he's still teaching and researching at 97 years old.

[@LoserEater303]

I read he recently published a paper on a new type of battery. Exciting stuff

[@mataskart9894]

@@LoserEater303 Real exciting, a better battery would basically double/tripple electric car efficiency, drones could fly for days instead of hours at a time, you phone wouldn't need to be charged every few hours and even if it did the gianormous ammount of space the battery takes up could be drastically decreased. Batteries are basically everywhere in our lives, and even 0.01% improvements in their technology is huge in the long run to the whole of humanity.

[@GewelReal]

@@mataskart9894 If you talking about glass batteries then those were debunked some time ago. If something newer then it's all cool and stuff untill the energy is realeased uncontrollably. You'd be holding 100+ grams worth of TNT in your hand

[@aslye]

Mmm I love when you talk emissions efficiency. Very informative! Thanks for making this.

[@lylestavast7652]

you guys should collaborate...

[@robertlisenko2962]

In a just world, every newspaper owner/editor would require their writers/pundits to watch this video before publishing a single “news article” on EVs

[@AnimeBeefRandoms]

@@aussie2uGA What world are you living in? The mainstream media is full of lefties that talk about the environment every day. The reasons Teslas get bad rep is because they have quality issues.

[@MerkDolf]

@Robert Ljenko you seem to forget that the propaganda machine always takes either the worst case or best case scenario of a scientific study to sale their product, Make a Headline, then they bury the rest of the facts under a hundred words..

[@robertlisenko2962]

@AnimeBeefRandoms this comment is so off topic that you clearly did not watch the video either. Step 1, you watch the video, step 2, comment on whether others should watch the video

[@mcdallywacker8977]

AnimeBeefRandoms AnimeBeefRandoms even if that was true, at least they listen to the scientific community much unlike the right wing media who either gladly take that oil money, or reject the evidence because it conflicts with their ideologies.

[@seanm.collins9888]

@@aussie2uGA do you think Baillie Gifford & Co is in it to save the environment or make money?

[@mrtopcat2]

Very nice, but I was missing 2x items from the electric calculation model. - self discharge rate of the batteries over time (may be significant in not used frequently) - energy needed to heat the interior of the vehicle (repeated winter short trips)

[@handbollish]

and co2 emmision to make the battery

[@JackMott]

@@handbollish co2 emissions to build a 1000lbs battery vs the c02 emissions to extract and refine 30,000lbs of gasoline, plus another 1000lbs of motor oil over vehicle lifetime. Engine plus transmission plus alternator plus starter motor takes more c02 to build than a couple electric motors also.

[@nathanskinner423]

*lives in washington* Almost all of our energy is clean *Can't drive anywhere without seeing 10 teslas*

[@nathanskinner423]

@Charles-A Rovira Here in small town Snohomish we tend to forget that DC exists. Danka chu.

[@nathanskinner423]

@C S No, it's a totally different place. I dislike going to seattle because it is basically baby manhattan.

[@mr.h5436]

Same here in Temecula ,CA. Multiple Teslas at intersections!

[@kaelanharkey6192]

I live in Tacoma and i can confirm so much of our power is hydro electric from the east

[@markoz673bajen8]

What does Seattle Manhattan have in common? Posser Aggresive Coffee Shops; Not into Coffee; just in for the internet.

[@nrs6956]

Am not an engineer but this is a fascinating presentation. Thank you.

[@THX5000]

I'm not an engineer, and I too like to watch KZbin videos :)

[@jada90]

Let me save you 15 minutes: YES.

[@gamer_ploob]

thanks a lot

[@RocketDragons]

Your answer was faster, but it wasn't even remotely interesting. The video still wins.

[@jonathonsaavedra3307]

Mark Langridge His answer wasn’t trying to be “remotely interesting” he was just trying to be quick and answer the initial question the video proposed to save people the 15 minutes who may be looking into buying or are interested in a tesla like he said

[@jonathonsaavedra3307]

aaron names care to explain why?

[@traianima]

Thank you captain

[@brucehearn2621]

As an old gear head who work in the petro-biz for a quarter-century, I SO want to hate on electric vehicles, but you're making that a difficult prospect.

[@SgtKanyo]

You don't need to hate on them. Think of them like, the general public who don't care about cars, should use these eletric cars, while we gear heads can use our lovely singing internal combustion engines.

[@yel27]

@@SgtKanyo I love the sound of an NA V8, but damn if youve ever driven one of the performance Teslas, the driving experience is insane, and it's only going to get better.

[@SgtKanyo]

@@yel27 It's because it has huge instant torque and AWD. So it grips. Want to experience the same? Do a launch control with a GTR and you get pretty much the same. But for me I don't care so much about the accelerations. Sure it needs to be above a certain acceleration, but the fact that you hear an engine working, going through the gears, the roar of a v8, or the howl of a V12, the way you put that car into corners especially if it's RWD. An eletric car with it's washing machine sound will never come close. The electric car is faster in a straight line, but anything else, the ICE beats. No soul in those cars. That's my 2 cents.

[@DxCBuG]

Agree, some enthusiast cars can still run fuel. Electric mainstream will be great though

[@DAN007thefoxx1]

As someone who owns a classic car I get easily annoyed at neckbeards who think they're saving the world when they want to ban everything that isn't electric. I get that not every EV owner is like this but we have far too many people like that in positions of power right now. EE at least doesn't let fear mongering overrule science and I respect that about him.

[@ColinFox]

Jason - If you're going to do such a detailed breakdown, then you should at the very least figure out how much electricity is used to refine that gasoline, and also figure in the source of that electricity and how polluting THAT is.

[@gregcollins3404]

I think my EV uses less electricity than the equivalent gas car uses just to refine and pump its fuel.

[@Mech-Badger-Man]

Can confirm, my grandfather set up power systems for refineries, and stated that this was the case.

[@Zag328]

@@Mech-Badger-Man Gotta love anecdotal evidence......

[@RandallJamesPeterson]

I was also curious about the emissions and energy expenditure for transporting the gasoline or hydrogen. Transmission power lines loss were calculated.

[@mattg8116]

Pretty sure that was included in the 81.7% efficiency. We have been refining for a long time and this process is very optimized.

[@justagiraffe2868]

13:17 Porsche Taycan engineers: “Allow us to introduce ourselves”

[@nordvestgaming1238]

Close, I'm pretty sure he was talking about the Audi SUV, the Taycan weighs around 5k pounds and it is a sedan

[@avidaviator8580]

The Taycan is a sedan? Isn’t it?

[@Mr7ee]

Am I the only one that says “Hello everyone and welcome” in his accent when the video starts 😂 great content 👌🏼 been watching your videos since the small white board

[@Maroco918]

Accent?

[@daftnord4957]

@@Maroco918 i'm assuming to everyone else in the world, and even regions of the U.S., this guy has an accent to them. you know we aren't the center of the universe right?

[@Maroco918]

@@daftnord4957 i live in dublin you twat 😂😂

[@kiyoponnn]

@@Maroco918 Everyone has an accent and OP might not be from the US you twat

[@kiyoponnn]

@Tee Hoe gaan dit?

[@Ownagetimex3]

TL:DR - Yes, hugely, and improving in two ways at once

[@mjdillaha]

You need to also discuss the production of the power unit and the total cost of the vehicle.

[@pilotavery]

Short answer: Yes Long answer: Yyyyeeeessss

[@LJ-fr1ei]

Hahaha

[@dreamsareme]

I would say the only problem with this analysis is that it doesn’t account for the amount fossil fuels needed to power the heavy equipment to extract the lithium and other materials raw materials from earth to make the battery. These materials are finite and rare earth elements. With respect to the rare earth minerals that also present challenges from a geo political respect with China having the largest deposit. I would be curious to see carbon emissions if all these factors were called into question. But great video!

[@TheMrNeffels]

There are studies out there including this and the emissions from making gas. Basically it came down to majority of emissions from cars comes from driving them. So yeah evs start out a little higher but even if youre powering on 100% coal electric over lifetime of car itll be less emissions than a car running on gas

[@therealproracer7284]

Then you would have to compare the amount of energy needed to manufacture an electric car vs an ICE car

[@geniusphoenix1]

This is related to vehicle production emissions. And he says multiple time in the video to check out his other video about vehicle production emissions for both gasoline and electric cars. There is an equation at the end of the video that clearly shows an electric car will make up for any extra production emissions including battery production in less than 2 years.

[@NexiTech]

What about lithium pollution extraction? Lithium car battery is the biggest and the heaviest component in the electric car. When every car on the street starts to carry 1,200 lb battery around I can not only imagine what scale of pollution will be on earth then.

[@joekent6576]

I love the depth of research but I would prefer to see the numbers of lithium mining and refinement added into these numbers. Actually, that being said it would be interesting to look into the amount of energy expensed when obtaining the raw materials for a variety of vehicles.

[@milosrog]

That would be really helpful but he already has the attitude that lithium mining is "not so bad"

[@MarcoNierop]

That 90% efficiency of gasoline during extraction, refining and transportation is way too high I think.. we already loose 5% just by evaporation! And as said here in other comments, that refining requires huge ammounts of energy. But good to see once again that driving a Tesla is superior to driving an average gasoline car.

[@LordMoriancumer]

that 90% is refining only. not included is extraction, transportation, boil off, or the car's engine of about 20%.

[@skylark9845]

Have to agree. There is a measurement of how many barrels of oil are recovered from a barrel of oil used: Exploration through extraction, and its getting lower; especially as we extract the harder to get sources such as shale oil. Early days this was 100-to-1 currently about 20-to-1.

[@waynenocton]

I have a 2014 Cruze diesel and over 167,000 miles, it averaged 37.3mpg so your numbers are right on. Now that doesn’t take into account that working security, I idle the car for many many hours which hurts obviously. I also got fuel for free which helped my cost big time but doesn’t change the mileage. Great explanation and research as always.

[@bjrnhoyer2161]

Would like to see the ev's where you calculated the efficiency by combining all of the different electricity supplies. So that you got the average scenario and not the one were only gas is used to produce electricity.

[@sl66ggehrubt]

Agreed. This is a flawed comparison, because once you have oil, it's easier to burn it than refine it to gas before burning it.

[@BICIeCOMPUTERconGabriele]

You should consider the marginal source of electricity, that is the source that will be used to INCREASE the electricity production due to the replacement of a gasoline car with an electric car... If all the cars will be electric the amount of electricity needed will increase hugely... It seems that everybody always forget this

[@ColinFox]

@@BICIeCOMPUTERconGabriele Wrong. It takes a lot of energy to refine gasoline. One litre of gasoline is about 35 kWh. That's about half of the charge in my Model S. It takes much more than 35 kWh of electricity to refine that litre of gasoline. If you charged an EV with it instead of refining gasoline, you could drive a lot farther. If you are going to talk about the overall energy picture if everyone switches to EVs, you have to also take into account that we won't need to refine gasoline any more, *drastically* reducing those energy needs.

[@unbiasedcobra6672]

Obviously this guy is an EV advocate. Its easy to cherry pick your own info to suit your opinion. For example"we will just say diesels and petrol is the same." Are you kidding me?

[@alexandruilea915]

@@unbiasedcobra6672 Diesels and petrol cars have the same fuel economy in USA apparently. In Europe we have better fuel economy on diesel cars but our engines are usually under 2 litters because of exponential tax increase when you go over 2 litters. That's one of the reasons why Diesel cars are more widespread in Europe than gasoline cars but people started to get sick of all the emissions reduction systems that fail again and again and are starting to look at gasoline or electric vehicles as well.

[@roflchopter11]

Natural gas releases much less co2 than coal, which accounts for (like you said) ~33% of electric generation in the US. The coal produces sulphur and nox as well. In addition, don't forget that the average car in the US is 11.8 years old.

[@EngineeringExplained]

Nat Gas is 36%, and has been increasing. Coal power production is 28% and has been steadily decreasing (hence I chose nat gas for the analysis). If you include the overall pie, which means 38% renewable/nuclear, those two sources dramatically reduce CO2 emissions (as they have none associated with power production).

[@hempi4fun]

​@@EngineeringExplained I'd love to see you take into account the cleanest combustion engine, with best fuel economy, best emissions and really good production efficiency, that is the CNG, number 10 on the list. Just the recovery and easy transportation via pipelines and way cleaner and efficient combustion, that should've been even closer to challenge electric cars.

[@thebuiltcmax]

Would be interested to see what the life expectancy of the Tesla and hybrids currently is. I Personally drive a 1997 f350 7.3l diesel that’s cleared a million miles and runs on used transmissions fluid, frying oil, motor oil cut with gasoline, etc. but if the Tesla is only gonna go 100,000 miles like most of they hybrids I see at the dealership, you would have to have 10 vehicles just to get where the diesel currently is. And it’s the least efficient in this scenario.... just a thought

[@Sisyphus1942]

can you do a series on energy production comparing the emissions and hazards of various forms of power generation and comparing real world costs with renewables such as batteries and toxic waste from photo-voltaic solar panels

[@kenbalbari3229]

Another point is that Tesla actually builds their batteries in low emissions plants which use much cleaner power overall than the average grid. But in any case, the average emissions for US electric production, per the EIA data, are about 1 pound CO2 equiv. per kWh. Since the EPA is basing it's MPGe numbers on an estimate of 33.7 kWh of energy per gallon of gas, you can say this amounts to 33.7 pounds of CO2 per gallon equivalent. The CO2 emissions per gallon of gas burned by an ICE car are less. About 19 pounds directly, but about 26 pounds once you account for wheel to well (emissions during production, refinement, and transportation). But this still implies that the EV only needs to be about 27% more efficient in it's MPGe (33.7/26=1.27) in order to be producing lower overall emissions. So an EV only needs to be better than 32 MPGe to beat the average gas car (25) and better than 64 MPGe to beat a good hybrid (50) on emissions. Even in the state with the dirtiest grid (WY) per the EIA state profiles, about double the national average CO2 emissions, the EV only needs to beat 65 MPGe to be better than the average gas car, but needs to reach 130 MPGe to beat the 50 MPGe hybrid. Overall, I think the numbers for hybrids and PHEV can get close enough to EVs that it can be reasonable for people to decide between those technologies based more on convenience and economic costs. But if we are taking environmental costs seriously, nearly every new vehicle should really be at least a hybrid.

[@busydadscooking001]

I love this channel because of the amount of thought and brainpower that goes into the analysis! On my channel, by contrast, most recently I've been attempting to fry an egg ... :D

[@kam_iko]

lifecycle CO2-equivalent emissions (g/kWh) coal - 820 gas - 490 biomass - 230 solar pv, utility - 48 solar pv, rooftop - 41 geothermal - 38 concentrated solar - 27 hydro - 24 wind, offshore - 12 nuclear - 12 wind, onshore - 11 (median values calculated by the IPCC 2014) (note: solar/wind require buffers, which are not part of this calculation)

[@Name-kd5jj]

Exactly nuclear is the clear winner. Yet if you ask anyone they'll tell you nuclear is bad. It's the only one that is clean, controllable and reliable.

[@dcheverie]

@@Name-kd5jj Plus nuclear doesn't kill endangered birds in large numbers like wind. Also, they completely ignore the fact that nuclear has a small foot print. Wind and solar take up massive amounts of land in comparison. Which could have trees on them, for example.

[@MarcAntoine01]

Nuclear ftw

[@itemushmush]

why are his numbers so much lower then? he has EV as 100% natural gas and has a g/kWh as 190

[@MrDRSMAX]

@@itemushmush In the video he shows grams of CO2 per mile driven, the comment shows grams of CO2 per Kilowatt hour of energy.

[@stanRmeyer]

I seriously question the automotive or petroleum Industries calculations of 81.7% efficiency!

[@gelu88]

Yes. It's outside the scope of this video, but the "energy returned over energy invested" (EROEI) calculations of some of the worse recovery methods are much less than 80%. In fact fracking might possibly be close to 0%.

[@Muskar2]

@@gelu88 One study (DOI: 10.1016/j.enpol.2013.05.049) puts gasolene production EROI at around 15:1, meaning an efficiency at around 93%

[@MrConor159]

The better it is the more money they make. I can imagine they put a good bit of effort in that.

[@nickmurphy7177]

I thought refineries are the biggest users of electricity. So gas car are using gas made by electric power.

[@iventonart9474]

But do you ever question Tesla's calculations?

[@SanderGTR]

Could you make a video about the emissions that are not often discussed? Roadwear, tirewear, transport to dealerships, etc. It would be interesting to see what the difference in efficiency of the "fuel" would make to the overall lifespan of the vehicle.

[@cameronwartnaby7559]

How on earth is the most efficient diesel on sale in the US only getting 37mpg?! My 12 year old Audi diesel gets 55 mpg quite regularly.

[@donkehmcdonkey3703]

Couple reasons. One is different gallon sizes, I presume you're outside the US where gallons are 4.54 vs 3.79 litres. The second is test cycle, the EPA testing perhaps isnt the best for accurate diesel mpg, we all know a BMW/VW diesel is a mega on fuel. Still 39 mpg combined is 46 mpg in larger gallons, which is a fairly realistic 50/50 highway/city mpg. Lastly US diesel isnt as good as say Euro diesel, one of the reasons Mercedes have injector issues in their US models.

[@markwells8347]

you don't have california legislation that requires a dpf which kills mpg

[@cameronwartnaby7559]

Mark Wells I don’t live in the US. I live in England, and have a dpf which is the law here.

[@cameronwartnaby7559]

Donkeh McDonkey ahh interesting! Thanks for explaining

[@donkehmcdonkey3703]

@@markwells8347 the rest of the developed world complies with Euro 6 emission standards, which are pretty much as restrictive as US emissions laws, particularly for commercial vehicles.

[@CrossEyedLion85]

I live in Germany and I drive a 2006 Ford Fiesta 1.6 TDCi. Normally I get 50mpg. If I put effort in driving economically and limit my speed to about 55mph, I get easily to 70mpg with my personal best being as high as 84mpg. With my camper (partly integrated design) based on a Ford Transit, I get to 30mpg and that is a big car! You should compare the Tesla to the most efficient fossil fuel car in the same category as the Tesla. That would make more sense.

[@ApothecaryTerry]

That's Euro MPG, he's talking US MPG, by which I mean they can't even measure a gallon properly over there.

[@stevemiller6766]

Unfortunately the us government and big oil have determined we cannot have the high mileage autos you have in Europe. While electric cars are cool I don’t like the fact that Teslas are in constant contact with headquarters and can have features turned off and on OTA any time they deem it necessary. For long distances they don’t make sense due to recharging times

[@StellarGale]

@@stevemiller6766 tbf Supercharger network is already pretty large across the states and when you travel, you usually make stops and 30 minutes should be enough to recharge.

[@ApothecaryTerry]

In the latest UK reliability survey the 2nd worst brand (Land Rover, which are awful) scored 78%. Tesla barely scraped 50%. That's a Tesla thing not an electric thing of course, but I'll stick with the Lexus for now. The connection thing is coming for all cars and I hate it, I don't mind my location being tracked but every tiny detail of what I'm doing? Sure, they don't really spy on people as such but I'll pass anyway.

[@alexstromberg7696]

@@ApothecaryTerry we dont use MPG in europe, we use L/100km

[@atfarley]

Wow, I've never had something so complex be explained so well to me.

[@nirfz]

12:09 No, it isn't zero. I remember a paper the german budestag commisioned, to inform them a few years ago in that matter. (so not by a political party but by all together do have a ground for discussion and decision) who came out with the numbers as following: production of electricity over the lifecycle of a power plant: hydro: 4 grams of CO2 per produced kWh, wind: 9 solar 12, and coal was above 50 when just used for electricity and around 38 when also used for "comunity heating" (force-heat coupling). (these were the best case scenarios) Nuclear power they said is almost not calculatable because of the efforts in producing the materials, maintaining the facility (and security) as well as the immense time of storage of the radioactive materials and the effort to store them in a safe and secure way for that long. I'm also wondering about your comment concerning battery production. As everybody else calculating came to the conclusion that for the prodiuction of one electric car you produce the same amount of CO2 as you would for producing one middle class diesel car + driving it for 50k km.

[@stanislavzoldak2198]

He did say that EV production emissions are offset on average by driving it for 1.67yrs

[@johnmoore1495]

nirfz “basically zero” once a solar array is running it produces no CO2 besides the maintenance. As the power grid and society becomes more green, that reduces emissions on everything including those maintenance emissions and production emissions, thus it will become “basically zero.” Also as I’m aware most people tend to drive a car more than 50,000km before getting rid of it so that argument doesn’t make sense.

[@nirfz]

@@johnmoore1495 "will become zero" is not the same as "is basically zero" until then, we can not calculate with zero. That would be a dubious practice. We take all those things into account everywhere else too, so why ingnore them here, just to make it look better than it is? People also often underestimate the damage to the envirement in getting raw materials. That's not just the case with oil, coal and natural gas thats also true for materials used for solar cells and batteries. Then there is something hardly mentioned about the solar and wind plants: they are destabilizing the grid. No problem at all if they are not connected to the grid. Then thats fine, but because their power output is varying due to natural causes that can cause huge problems in the grid systems. It has in the past caused high CO2 emissions because caloric plants (coal, oil ect) had to be use to cover the gaps and stabilize the power distribution. As to "that argument makes no sense" Think about it again: It means that by the time you have gone 50 000 km with a middle class Diesel car, this has caused the same amount of CO2 (inlcuding the manufacture of the car as well as all the maintenance and fluids the electrical car hasn't needed) as a freshly produced electric car without going even 1 meter. And if you then take into account the numbers of emitted CO2 per kWh of produved electricity (and as long as those plants aren't built without causing any CO2 emissions, this has to be taken into account. I think in general we shoud try to reduce electricity consumption, so that eventually the amount we consume can be achieved by less harmfull production. Wind plants where i live are put on mountains, ruining the wildlife there, huge roads to bring those big windwheels up have to be created, the cranes and trucks to transport them and assemble them aren't running on solar power, the concrete bases they have to build to make them withstand the huge windpressure is almost as much as you need for a hydro plant and also has to be produced and brought there,and the copper needed to connect them to the grid isn't produced nor the calbes laid by "green" vehicles either... The report i mentioned that stated the 9grams of CO2 by 1 kWh in wind energy would in my opinion have an even less good value for wind energy if germany wouldn't have big flat areas with much better preconditions to build windfarms than we have in my country.

[@Baldy444]

I worry about battery degradation and eventual cost replacing them if buying a 2nd hand electric car

[@ToSeeTheSea]

You shouldn't worry. In Teslas last earnings call, they confirmed the Million mile battery. That is 50 years if you travel 50 miles every day. Plus Redwood Materials are recovering >95% of the raw materials for reuse in Lithium batteries today, which will improve as they scale. Buy a Tesla, it'll be the last car you need as the over the air software upgrades keep improving the cars performance and range.

[@rishitjain2567]

Hey, Jason! I just saw your interview with Gears and Gasoline and it really put you into a new light for me. Earlier, you were just some dude with a lot of knowledge about cars and I deeply respected you and your passion. Now, I believe I know you a little better than I did before and that is so satisfying. I know you get a lot of mean comments and hate and meaner jokes. I just hope you get much more appreciation. I really appreciate your work and your passion. You're humble, knowledgeable, smart (read: IQ 2000). I respect your yearning for learning and hope to learn more from you. I admire you, man. Thank you so, so, so much for everything.

[@TheDarkLegacy]

Hey EE, you forgot to cite the efficiency % of the internal combustion engines in the gasoline cars, which typically averages around 21% (I got 19.655% in a dual-turbo V6). Different cycles also have different efficencies, such as the Rankine, and diesel engines under compression as well (30-40%). Over 80% of the thermal energy in the refined fuel is lost as waste heat in the conversion to kinetic. Thank you!

[@jhonny44444]

@M Bacon Very good point! People often underestimate how large the Model S and X are. The model 3 is a big improvement without sacrificing much internal space. Difference between model 3 and S is about 400 to 600 kg. Furthermore, those vehicles still utilise wet cells, imagine them using dry cell technology (solid state).

[@noisycarlos]

That'd be included in the mpg. If a car is more efficient because it wastes less energy to heat, that means it goes father with the same gallon of fuel (aka more miles per gallon)

[@TomHarrisonJr]

The efficiency of the engine/motor is captured in the MPG rating. And yes, that's where they major loss is: lots of that gasoline energy is wasted in heat and noise, idling, and so on as an ICE is quite inefficient as you note. Electric motors are easily 2x as efficient. What's also interesting is that Tesla has put substantial effort into reducing drag, as well as reducing rolling resistance -- things that few other production cars do as well (other EVs included).

[@travsformation1]

@M Bacon Excellent point on weight and overall person/freight transport efficiency, as well as the "US business as usual" approach to transportation. PEVs are the best option in terms of short-distance, inner-city commutes, IMO. A Tesla Model 3 SR+ (RWD, standard range) weights 1,600 kg (3,500 lb); I weight 70 kg (154 lb). So: - The car weights nearly 2300% my body weight - Little over 4% of the energy is used to move ME, while the other 96% goes to moving the car. My electric unicycle, for instance, weights 25 kg. So: - The wheel weighs roughly 36% of my body weight. - 26% of the energy is used to move the wheel, while the other 74% is used to move ME. Now THAT is an infinitely more efficient means of transportation, especially if you consider that a ridiculous percentage of internal combustion cars are actually used as one-personal vehicles... And for long-distance travel, it's a shame we aren't investing in high-speed rail...

[@travsformation1]

@M Bacon BTW, in a Tesla Model 3 SSR+, for instance, what percentage of the useful work is applied to transporting a person?

[@Sijray21]

I think this usage comparison is cool, but I'd be interested in the emissions comparisons between electric and gasoline cars (generally) made by the manufacturing process.

[@werdwerdus]

he already made a video covering that

[@LoserEater303]

He mentioned like 3 times that he has a video covering this.

[@treborheminway1196]

Thanks for providing the perfect response to all the people claiming they know better - given the 5 minutes they have thought about it.......

[@bbkangs]

This video made me feel old. Like how I look at cars from the early 1900s that have to be cranked to start. That’s how gasoline cars will look 100 years from now. 🤯

[@akonnema]

In 100 years the climate will have warmed so much and so many cities flooded and people displaced that people will look back and hate cars from this era.

[@jaakkopontinen]

They will seem like a product of their time. Best we could do right now in the circumstances we are in. Unfathomable amounts of engineering, testing and improving on improvements. Also totally idiotic :D

[@westinr6278]

Dang you must be really old

[@bbkangs]

Westin R I’m 24 😂

[@Maybe-So]

You anti-oil bitchers forget that many things come from petroleum - Plastic buttons on your shirt, for example, or the plastic dash in your electric car. I still haven’t heard how that stuff will get replaced. Corn? Maybe the ‘farm bot’ will do it for us. I like EVs, converted one 10 years ago, lead acid batteries suck. Ask me how I know. While everything still works (except the controller smoked, had to fix that - and the BMS timer failed, and over charged the batteries) - the lead-acid batteries (even if the BMS hadn’t failed) - would not have lasted 10 years. Lithium ion batteries last a while in a car, and can be repurposed for a power-wall in your house. My EV only pulled 200-300 amps during mild acceleration. Hills? 600 amps. Houses use less than that. If you use commercial chillers instead of compressing refrigerant, and if you use rocket mass heaters instead of electricity, your heating and cooling costs go way down.

[@desiredditor]

U didn't consider the right factor for gasoline conversion cause there are many more steps to make gasoline use ready and not all plants are equally efficient in extracting fuel Like co2 for trsanportation

[@StellarGale]

It was best case scenario for ICE and worst case scenario for EV

[@cantstandthecrap]

Yes i also noted that he clearly said WHO published these numbers for the efficiency of gasoline from well to gas station... So take a guess

[@bonito1337]

@@StellarGale sorry but worst case scenario would be if he calculate with an Powerplant using Coal. The Best Powerplant with coal is 45% eff.

[@iventonart9474]

@@StellarGale It's not worst case scenario for EVs, that's just an assumption. Charging and discharging efficiency can vary greatly.

[@ctrlaltdebug]

Also he forgot to include the negative externalities of fracking to extract the natural gas. Coal would be the worst-case for EVs.

[@tokyowarfare6729]

Nice video, and is not just the efficiency, removing all those fumes from the cityes is a big plus for ppls health

[@miguelribeiro5165]

Even in the worst case scenario... I mean, it is so good to see Jason (a petrolhead) do this type of videos. Thank you for this, we need more people like you, with an open mind Imagine the day when we will have 100% renewable in the eletric grid and start to recycle more batteries from used cars

[@JustASimpleGuy]

I don't think his a petrol head more just a car enthusiasts over all

[@chwalczukjozef8489]

I'm sorry to disappoint you but this video is really manipulated. If you're looking for really eco friendly car please analyse option for cars like Toyota Yaris hybrid modified to be powered by natural gas.

[@chwalczukjozef8489]

CO2 emissions 84g/km Fuel economy 76.3mpg If you modify it to LPG.

[@leokal457]

@@muskokamike127 lol thats so completely wrong! By today we have houshoulds in germany that live 80-90% off the year completely of their own produced power! You have to invest about 50k euros to achieve this but its far from possible! Give it another 10 years and it is going to be no problem at all. I dont know where you got your data from

[@mychevysparkevdidntcatchfi1489]

@@muskokamike127 Typical EV consumes about 4 miles/kWh (my SparkEV is averaging 5.5 mi/kWh), 50 miles per day average consumes 12 kWh. 3 kW home solar will easily cover that. It's not like there's shortage of roof tops.

[@AnthonyAntelman]

One thing I think that is missing is the category of manufacturing efficiency of producing the vehicle (emissions related to battery mfg, cost of battery materials, emissions related to vehicle and battery disposal, etc)

[@kunalmahajan9489]

Cost of battery materials doesn't actually matter as if you compare with other harmful fuels. Yes but battery disposal is gonna be a major issue

[@MrYlijumala]

He said multiple times that he has other videos about the battery effiency etc. Just go watch those.

[@Markle2k]

You were not paying attention.

[@kunalmahajan9489]

@@Markle2k Yes! Just look at the comment of Engineering Explained and you will get your answer

[@EngineeringExplained]

As discussed in the video, here are the links: Production Emissions: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bIPLpZyGmsuJsK8 Battery Production/Disposal: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z567hICtj7qcebc

[@060racing8]

I recently came across some old Motoring magazines from 1954 and there was fuel economy tests it showed a current model for the time Citroen the results for it for 67.3 miles per gallon

[@kato1kalin]

And yet we see high 30's as good :/

[@060racing8]

It's prompted me to look at fuel economy of cars and there are actually a lot of old cars that far more efficient then I think that new cars are just far too heavy and have too many accessories to ever be fuel efficient

[@gmcjetpilot]

My VW TDI turbo diesel gets 50 miles to the gallon. I can go almost 700 miles on one tank.

[@qwerty69600]

Tell me about it. 37mpg for a diesel? Give me a break. I'd need to drive around all day with the throttle pedal planted through the floor to get my diesel consumption down to 37mpg.

[@jacopo952]

same mile units?

[@armoule8596]

F1 engineered as frick Engine : 50% effeciency Electrical motor : about 90% :D

[@dutchtim8206]

I live in the UK and was looking at this recently but I approached it slightly differently. I found reliable data on gross UK electricity production in 2018 based on our UK mix of generation. Our overall figure was 283g of CO2 per kWh. I then found transmission and charging losses similar to yours of 50%. Then found a quoted figure for a Nissan leaf of 4.9km/kWh. Calculate this out and you get 115g of CO2/km. Compare this to a Toyota self charging hybrid Auris, they quote a figure of 84g of CO2/km. Also there is a practical limit of how much intermittent solar and wind generation the grid can tolerate and is economic. Its unlikely we'll get to even 50% intermittent. If we go heavily into thorium nuclear generation that would be a game changer I suspect but there is still substantial co2 associated with nuclear when the full life cycle is considered. Anyway thanks for a good video, bye.

[@thipebe]

Here in brasil toyota recent released the corolla hybrid flex. It can be powered with E100. Do you know how the efficiency of ethanol production impacts on this calculations and carbon emissions ?

[@propergander8509]

Thiago Penso Bevilacqua Sure, the E100 fuel’s CO2 emissions are a closed loop, but in order to get all the farming land, a lot of rainforest had to be burnt down, which was actually a biospheric carbon storage... It’s a double edged sword

[@Pedrodemio]

Toyota releasing this Corolla without having the options to charging externally and advertising it as self charging made me lose all respect for them

[@EngineeringExplained]

I have not done the math on it, so I don't have an exact number on it. I do, however, recall seeing a study where the land mass required (square footage) to create the necessary amount of energy is massive, and that from an energy standpoint there were more efficient ways to use that land (solar, wind, etc) which in turn would have lower impacts. But again, it'd be interesting to run the analysis on.

[@joaovitorsilvagohl682]

@@propergander8509 I am not so sure about that, most of the ethanol on Brazil is made with sugar cane that is not planted close to the amazonian rainforest. because the soil is too poor here. But of couse it was planted on the Southeast region of Brazil and northeast coast of course, most of the original forest on the southeast is not there anymore but that is because there is where most of the population of the country lives

[@carl_84]

we're arguing if EVs pollute less or not, when we could have race fuel, pollute less and have a blast :D

[@matthewclarkson4883]

This is an amazing video with some great info showing how good electric cars really are even when charged through fossil fuels. My only issue is the gasoline comparison has been done using american averages and the america has some of the worst average fuel economy in the world. I live in the UK and average MPG of a car here is 51MPG for petrol cars and 61MPG for diesel, with some of the best economy cars like the new renault clio getting around 80 in the real world. Would be interesting to see these numbers added to the overall efficiency grid to see how they stack up. In america the average person would clearly be putting out less CO2 in an EV vs a gasoline car but I'm not sure the same would be true for the UK or other countries like japan where cars average MPG is better. Thanks again for another great video :)

[@kevinurben6005]

A US gallon is only 3.79 litres whereas an imperial gallon is 4.54 litres! So 20 mpg in the States is 24 mpg in the UK.

[@matthewclarkson4883]

Kevin Urben I didn’t know this so thanks for that. But as C- said even taking this into account the average is still very different compared to other countries

[@noctaz7195]

@@matthewclarkson4883 Even considering the better fuel economy cars in Germany or the UK get, you have to remember that some european contries get a lot more of their energy from renewables (just checked for Germany, the biggest source for energy in the first half of 2019 was wind power - at least for private households - according to the Fraunhofer ISE)

[@Talaxianer]

Your chrome-deleted red Model 3 with black rims just looks the best

[@4133634]

How does 81% get rounded out to 90% and look at those horrible "other emissions"

[@DemsW]

to prove that even if you go kind with fossil fueled cars they are still worse

[@grzegorzkapica7930]

You could do a best case for the EV, so we could see, "what we are fighting for".

[@yorkchris10]

I had a physics teacher that taught mostly mechanics. Doc Watson wore an ammo belt loaded with chalk and enforced learning the fudge factor.

[@ztirffritz252]

My 2002 Beetle TDi achieved 40mpg, almost 50 on the highway.

[@ctrlaltdebug]

I guess he's comparing non-cheating diesels.

[@Limeslice4r64]

@@ctrlaltdebug 2002 is prior to dieselgate. You can't cheat the pump. I get 43mpg average with little highway driving in my 02 TDI. 37mpg isnt the best economy a passenger diesel can get, just my 2 cents.

[@johnmoore1495]

Joseph Mitchell it was pre-cheating because it was pre-emissions. Take that car and match it to today’s emissions standards and it’d be lower.

[@FruityLittleBoy]

My 1984 Diesel Rabbit ranges between 55-60 mpg

[@lylestavast7652]

@@c-5899 but what is it's EPA Combined rating specifically. That's what he's using as a reference.

[@johnroehsler6440]

You should use the average gas millage of only 2019 cars for a true comparison. Comparing a brand new Tesla to the average car in the USA is 12 years old. Enjoyed the video.

[@thesteaksaignant]

but he also compared with the best gasoline powered car and electric vehicules still win

[@dahwe12]

Did you hear what he said? Gasoline vehicles have nearly reached the limit of their efficiency where as electric vehicles are just getting started and will only continue to become more efficient.

[@MegaLiberties]

Great video! Still going to stick with my naturally aspirated gasoline powered car for several years until the grid improves.

[@GTRSv]

You should do a video on how cold weather affects battery range, heat issues and all that stuff too. Love your videos, keep it up! :)

[@xpkareem]

And every new source of renewable energy just makes this better and better, or get some panels and put them on your roof to charge your car!

[@SuperU2tube]

Yes, he completely missed the point about renewables growing each year. He also didn't mention what happens if you charge your car from sunlight on your own roof.

[@slivkask8329]

Thank you very much for correcting my opinion on electric vehicle emissions in a scientific way! 👍

[@guitchild]

Can you also explain ill effects or advantages of Lithium mining and its effects in the environment ?

[@buffteethr]

Thank you...as an engineer to hear people blindly sing the praises of EVs without looking beyond the hype has been frustrating. Lithium mining and recycling all the material needed to switch EVERYTHING to battery motors is going to cause its own environmental problems.

[@elliottvenus]

@@buffteethr Engineering Explained has already done a video on this though, he says this right at the start of this one...

[@fedyx1544]

@@buffteethr except he has already done a video on that

[@whaterfoo]

@@buffteethr in this video I guess he thinks hydro, wind, solar electricity plants just magically appear too

[@Rob-pf6yl]

@@whaterfoo Power production will appear, but not magically. Power demand will continue to grow as people consume more power. Not only this, but the source of power will constantly be pushed to be cleaner and more efficient. So power production will keep changing, so its a matter of developing forwards, or becoming complacent and never advancing. I think it would be better to develop towards nuclear and renewables, dont you?

[@neilsteffler2019]

What is the total carbon output of each. We also know that epa rating are not accurate.

[@GoldSrc_]

ICE have a higher carbon output, not to mention that it has been going for like 100 years so keep that in mind :v.

[@jonathondeeds3423]

Now please do another comparison between electric vehicles and combustion cars running on renewably sourced Cellulosic Ethanol and biodiesel.

[@NickLukefahr]

He shows you how to do the math.

[@robsmith1a]

I am shocked that gasoline production is 90 percent efficient. I always assumed that cracking process alone used so much energy that it would be lower than this. Does the calculation include energy put in during production?

[@EngineeringExplained]

Gasoline is extremely energy dense, so while it does take a lot of energy to get/create, you also end up with a ton of energy left over.

[@robsmith1a]

@@EngineeringExplained thanks, understand now

[@alstonhsu3804]

how about the electricity while extracting oil and refining and transportation fuel (how much it uses and how much more electricity it uses to extract and refine). You should do another calculation on how much emission will be to drive 100 km.

[@lylestavast7652]

that's included in the 82% number.

[@juergwilli7352]

Thanks Jason for your great calculations as always! It’s so important right now that we have guys like you who get to the ground proofing that it’s the cleaner alternative!

[@gregnemcek3998]

Except for the prevalent use of estimations and percentages. Cleaner isn't necessarily better.

[@craigruchman7007]

I should point out that the percentage of renewable US electricity goes up every year while the ERoEI of oil goes down (oil gets harder to get); also to is the concept of charging at night using electricity that normally gets wasted; meanwhile , some charging stations get some of their energy from the sun.

[@robertmontgomery7158]

Lithium mining carries high environmental costs. Mining companies prospecting lithium in northern Tibet, salt plains of South America, and Chile as well as lithium at Bolivia's Salar De Uyuni require extensive extraction operations and water in a dry land.

[@kyriakos098]

go watch his other video titled: "Are Electric Cars Worse For The Environment? Myth Busted" at 11:23 of that video he talks about what you just said and explains why it's not bad compared to crude oil extraction.

[@F0XD1E]

Lithium is not the final word on batteries though. Eventually advancements will be made to use more sustainable battery chemistry, we just aren't there yet. And of course, lithium batteries are recyclable so it's not all being consumed with use.

[@andyhan5008]

U’re a good teacher man with crisp explanations. I actually was able to follow along and I’m not very bright. It’s one thing to know sth it’s a whole different story to teach it.

[@holayason8569]

8:56 Anyone else notice they 100% stole the Dodge Stealth font for their "Stealth EV" logo?

[@787brx8]

Ever notice how the VTEC, Vortec, Voltec, Duratec, Ecotec and Ecoboost names sound similar or how certain design cues are used over and over with multiple manufacturers?

[@holayason8569]

I guess, but I was actually just talking about a font

[@Mrjoecreeper]

@Garrett Nixon Where did dodge get their font from?

[@RoguePC4U]

OCD got the best of me here. I wouldn't say they "100%" stole it. Yes, the two fonts could be mistaken for one another, but the E, A and H are - in fact - slightly different.

[@Anderle52134]

In Hamburg, Germany they are building a 100 Megawatt modular Hydrogen plant that extracts CO2 from the air, powered by wind energy. In Spain there is a Kerosene plant that also extracts CO2 from the air and is powered by solar energy.

[@ripvanstinkle]

You really do make the best and most thorough videos explaining and debunking why electric vehicles are superior to their gas powered counterparts.

[@coreyfro]

What about electric in winter in montana? Are you going to factor in range when heating batteries and cabins?

[@CarlosGutierrez-qw6pr]

Hey what about people who live in large cities with horrible traffic and will have worse gas mileage

[@Cautionary_Tale_Harris]

Or summer in Florida.

[@CanadianMax]

Don't come here with your logic, this is a Tesla fanboy gathering and this blasphemy will not be tolerated.

[@tomlee6263]

My friend in NW Montana has a model S and the heater in winter takes 150 miles off the range in the winter.

[@coreyfro]

See? This is a problem. Anyone who understands these.basic details is going to see through any video such as this. These half truths are full lies. It is dishonest. This video is dishonest.

[@adamcnessesq]

I’d love to see this math with a Tesla solar and powerwall setup.

[@JazzbLu]

I found your results amazing in a n awesome way! I want to say that by producing electricity from water renewable resources, the emissions efficiency of an electric vehicle compared to gasoline, would undoubtedly be the most environmentally friendly vehicle.

[@dolph9913]

I get an average of 39 mpg in my 2007 E320 Diesel bluetech.

[@procerator]

Ford has 1.5 diesel with 53mpg rating.

[@ThePilotGear]

53 UK MPGs = 44 US MPGs. US don't get the 1.5 Ford diesel.

[@procerator]

@@ThePilotGear well that`s not ICE cars problem. Is it? Such diesel engine exist and Ford is an American company, so it would be fair to include it in calculations.

[@kevinchung1492]

@@procerator However the 53mpg rating not using US testing standard where all examples in the video were. That alone would make the calculation inaccurate.

[@procerator]

@@kevinchung1492 well I am OK converting it to freedom units, but 44mpg is still more then what was in the video

[@dirikenaxel1927]

It would be interesting to also include these things: -emissions to produce ion-lithium batteries Vs emission to produce a combustion engine -is it even possible to get enough raw materials (rare metals,...) to provide an electric car for everyone? -how can we deal with the fact that recharging an electric car to 80% of his max charge takes 20mins vs 5mins for a gasoline car ? The two last points are maybe not the topic of the video but keep that in mind too ! (I’m not saying electric is bad, many things are often forgotten and people should know about them before buying an electric car)

[@dallatorretdu]

if you've watched the video until the end, it's clearly stated that he did a previous video (link at the end) comparing the production and life emissions.

[@ZeNashB]

The last two points require at least a century of continuous innovation like the ICE engine development enjoyed. Remove big oil from the equation and invest in new technology like supercapacitors etc

[@tiagov.mendes4422]

Thank you. Since the question relates to environment, shouldn't we close the cycle and also check which system is easier to recycle with less pollution and whether it is sustainable?

[@ksqmusic]

Thank you for pointing out that an EV's efficiency will improve over time as power companies increase their renewable energy generation and the grid. Could you please do a scenario with charging an EV at your house with solar panels + a battery pack?

[@louishenn3028]

Somethings that's quite funny to consider is that gas can also become greener with time. Like using solar power to pump oil or electric trucks to transport fuel (yes, very ironic)

[@letsgobubblegum]

did this guy steal Mark Rober's vocal chords?

[@shakthidharga9967]

Your data interpretation and analysing is excellent

[@JeanPierreWhite]

Why did you give gasoline based vehicles a mulligan of 90% efficiency when Oil and Gas says 81.7%?

[@ForestNinjaZero]

It doesn't make a difference, since Tesla doesn't get anywhere near 133 MPG.

[@igabobalushi]

@@ForestNinjaZero 133 mpg equivalent

[@ForestNinjaZero]

@Igabobalushi The rating is false. If I recharge a Tesla with 100% of what can be transmitted from a gasoline-powered generator, over a standard grid, the actual output will be in the range of 10 mpg. Equivalent of what?

[@JeanPierreWhite]

@@ForestNinjaZero The 133 MPGe number comes from EPA tests. You are welcome to challenge the EPA numbers, but where is your source or calculations to indicate it is just 10 MPG as you assert.

[@TodayIFoundOut]

@@ForestNinjaZero Can confirm my Model 3 long range 2 wheel drive (which I now have about 40K miles on in the last year, probably about 80% road trip so a good samplesize) actually exceeds the EPA estimate on road trip driving in summer at ~75 mph about 330 miles on a full charge, and comes in below a bit at about 290 miles in winter on the highway. (For reference primarily at sea level to about 2500 feet and back.) That is all roughly the worst case scenario for it. Obviously if you're going up a mountain that drops it significantly, but the same for gas powered car efficiency. I, at least, regenerate some on the way down the other side. And, again, I've got large samplesizes I've worked with and a bit of a number nerd, so watch this closely on basically every road trip even now. :-) To the point that I'm fully comfortable (and have done many times) bringing my car down to under 5 miles left on the charge to get to the destination. :-) It's all just math and gives you something to do while driving, and one place I drive frequently given the distance between superchargers combined with about a 6K foot elevation gain, it's just barely enough. ;-) In fact, funny enough on this one, in the winter there is a point in the trip where it will say I'm going to arrive with about -10 to -15 miles by one measure it displays. But I, and the car, both know that the last 15-ish miles or so is all down hill, so the percentage meter will show it correctly. So while I'll typically reach that point with little to no charge, I arrive at the supercharger with usually around 3-5 miles on that one. And note here, even if I guess wrong given a certain day's conditions, the fix is always just to slow down. This thing has more like a 500+ mile range at closer to 25 mph, for example. (Give or take depending on exact conditions.) Also, I'm told Tesla gives a little wiggle room even when you reach 0 miles. Haven't tested that out for myself. On that note, if you slow it down to 60 mph on the highway, you come out significantly better than my above highway figures, but who wants to do that? :-) In-town driving at slower speeds but a lot of stop and go, it usually gets about 25%-ish better than those highway numbers, give or take. And driving in Nevada once when it was 100-ish degrees out and super high density altitude I actually get closer to 340 miles pacing on a charge despite having the air conditioner blasting and doing 85 mph! That's the best I've ever gotten on a couple hundred mile stretch and especially at that speed it was crazy. I also know someone who has a Model 3 long range 4 wheel drive and it is almost exactly spot on the EPA's estimate of 310 in the summer and about 270-280 in the winter on the highway. For those wondering, I also think the 4 wheel drive is needless here. The traction control is incredible on the Teslas, and 2 wheel drive has proven to be plenty sufficient on snow and ice, even with just all-weather tires. (And given the fairly evenly distributed weight, the stability of this thing cornering in snow and ice is the best of any car I've driven. Super smooth and predictable when it does slide.) That said, the 4 wheel drive is a bit faster off the line, and it is actually noticeable despite the 0-60 times being not that different. It is more that there's an extra level of snappiness to it, which I believe this channel has made a video on why, thanks to the different design of the front motor than the rear. But I like the slight increase in range on the 2 wheel drive given the road trips I take vs. slightly better acceleration. Also it was cheaper and the 2 wheel drive is plenty fast. :-) -Daven *EDIT: And should also mention all these numbers are with the aero rims and mostly just me in the car and maybe a little luggage. If you take off the aero rims, when talking highway traveling, it drops about I'd say around 5-15 miles depending on weather. In-town driving not really a noticeable difference. I have only once taken a (3K mile) road trip with a fully loaded car, but I don't remember what the numbers were on that one. It was my first road trip actually almost on day 1 I got the car. :-)

[@Jimmy-Chin]

You should make a video on price per mile considering the average use life of a car comparing ev to gas

[@kapilchhabria1727]

operating cost of a EV is around $0.03-$0.05 per mile. whereas the operating cost of a ICE vehicle is around $0.08-$0.09 per mile, excluding the cost of repairs for the ICE vehicle. Depreciation is not factored in here, as it would be highly subjective (which ICE vehicle, and depreciation is non-linear). The average vehicle ownership is about 5 years, and the average annual mileage is about 15000 miles. Thus, the operating cost of the EV for those 4 years is: $1800-$3000. Whereas that for the ICE is $4800-$5400. Thus, based on operating cost (assuming no maintenance costs), the delta is only about $3000 odd.

[@tisebi14]

@@kapilchhabria1727 what i find interesting here is that tesla recently annouced their soon to be 1 million mile life exentency battery, wich means if they get implemented in the teslas, it's gonna cost even less per mile to operate

[@kapilchhabria1727]

@@tisebi14 i estimated based on the energy consumption and average cost of electricity. given such lofty mileage, over time, owning a EV will far outstrip an ICE viz-a-viz lower cost of operation.

[@micheals1992]

My Toyota Aygo gets 72mpg (60mpg US). It's a pure petrol car. There is actually a few diesels in the UK that can achieve 100mpg (83mpg US) although they aren't very common as they're mostly limited run cars for manufactures to show off what they can do.

[@ashan723]

You've explained that you can recycle the lithium and other components of an old battery, but not yet economical. Any concerns of the scarcity of the material until it is?

[@_TbT_]

Andrew Han All needed materials are not scarce, in spite of being called “rare earths”.

[@ashan723]

@@_TbT_ yeah thanks. I think graphene will take over as the material of choice. Did a quick read on mass production, but seems like it may involve a lot of methane.

[@TechnoMonkeyFarm]

There's not much lithium in the batteries anyway. Look at the price per ton to see how scarce something is.

[@ashan723]

@@TechnoMonkeyFarm You certainly can get the scarcity or demand from the spot price. Lithium still relatively expensive compared to the other metals. Ok, scarcity isn't a problem right now.

[@tombratfred3102]

It's all a matter of scale. Once there are enough batteries to recycle, it'll probably be worth it. Especially, considering that techniques are still being improved upon.

[@chrislaidlaw3308]

Why round up 81.7 to 90? Just use 82% you could just as easily round down to 74%

[@alexmobil7463]

Numbers are speaking the truth so simple it is. Great analysis and easy to understand.

[@h3llyh0t]

so if you live in a city where you get your electricity from a dam , the emission per mile = 0 ?

[@ctrlaltdebug]

Nothing is free. Concrete to make the dam / lifetime electricity production, emissions to repair the turbines etc. But it should be very low.

[@GamerTheTurtle]

@@ctrlaltdebug it's probably the closest we have though. Nuclear reactors coming in second but they require even greater concrete supply (more CO2 emmisons) and a whole nother beast when it comes to pollution. Not worst for the environment but different in that we can't figure out what to do with nuclear waste.

[@SCHMALLZZZ]

Dams are ecological disasters, stopping the flow of sediment to the beaches. We saved the world famous trestles surf spot from this fate. If you want to get a real feel for the amount of sediment blocked by dams check out the Elwha river on the Olympic peninsula.

[@lylestavast7652]

in an ongoing basis, yes - essentially.

[@mikebetts2046]

You may be forgetting the emission of chewed up fish.

[@alexanderwittstock3503]

I love the vid but I have a question, how do you determine what a gallon of electricity is?

[@teslacles8565]

Energy density of gasoline: ~34 MJ/liter = ~129 MJ/gallon = ~36 kWh/gallon without taking into account engine efficiencies

[@alexanderwittstock3503]

@@teslacles8565 thanks for the wisdom lol

[@Beeza2996]

You can convert gasoline energy for direct comparison with electrical energy like Teslacles did; however, the "gallon" that Jason is using for electric cars is the natural gas used to generate electricity. For this calculation he assumed that only natural gas is being used for electricity generation (even though that's not the case), which gave ICE cars an even more favorable handicap - and electric cars still won.

[@nthanatos6212]

Came to this video with a very skeptical mindset, but I'm proud to say I was able to change my opinion because of the facts presented in this video. Cheers

[@craigfreeze2975]

I’ve been looking for the math to be done on this for a long time now

[@BBQasaurus]

Be the change you want to see in the world.

[@craigfreeze2975]

@@BBQasaurus thanks, man :)

[@milosrog]

it's easy to do the mat when you start with the wrong facts you think out

[@lucasdetex8703]

I would love to see this kind of video in the future with the data updated.

[@EEI605]

This^^

[@justjosh11]

Great research as always, but I'm sitting here wondering how on earth the US most efficient diesel is only 37mpg. I understand that is a US gallon, but still! In the UK just off the top of my head, a 320d efficient drive, or whatever they call them, from a couple years back was achieving 60+mpg in real world driving

[@hugolafhugolaf]

Joshua Barton UK figures in magazines always seem bloated.

[@justjosh11]

@@hugolafhugolaf our numbers do come up higher than yours because of the difference between the US gallon and the UK gallon, but also we have more diesel cars with smaller engines than yourselves as fuel costs more. That figure though of 60+mpg for the 320d is real world driving calculated, not paper figures

[@johnmoore1495]

Bigger (thus heavier and less aerodynamic) cars. He’s being generous as in reality most American consumer diesel vehicles are light duty trucks that get 15mpg lol.

[@davidhealdjr.513]

I’d love to see the numbers if you assumed coal for the electricity production.

[@Drewbyy]

David Heald Jr. yeah, that’s the main source in my country, Australia.

[@ZeNashB]

You can do it yourself using his formula instead of insinuating something that isnt so. A coal power plant has total efficiency of 37%. Plug in this number in place of 45% he used for mixed production. The forumla will yield a value of 130 g/mi CO2 emissions, which is still less than one third of gasoline vehicles.

[@davidhealdjr.513]

Nahush Bhat why go around accusing people of things that simply aren’t true. I insinuated nothing and now you look like a douche.

[@fuzzy1dk]

coal is about double the CO2/J than natural gas, because it is lots of C plus some H vs. a C and 4 H