Are the Old Gods the Elven Gods? || Girl Analyzes Dragon Age

[@yfullman]

I love how Solas's only response to someone suggesting a connection between the Evanuris and Old Gods is "SHUT UP THO"

[@girltriesgames]

😂

[@nonbinarybeauty]

🤣🤣🤣😭

[@predalien902100]

😂 I remember that. Which based on what he says, that there’s nothing connecting the Old Gods to his people, being the ancient Elven people and even the Evanuris. I would say that the Old Gods are ancient, intelligent and powerful dragons that once roamed the world, like the dragons that Tolkien had written up in his novels and notes of Middle-Earth, before they were imprisoned by the Maker, or at least that’s what the Chantry states. Which now after what Corypheus and Solas state about previously established history and lore, it does put into question a lot of things about what the Chantry says. I am also curious about what Solas knows what we, and what the Warden’s don’t know about the Old Gods since he claimed that something worse could happen should the Warden’s have succeeded in killing the remaining 2 untainted Old Gods. I think that it’s likely the Evanuris merely used the 7 High Priests to try and escape, by posing as the Old Gods, as their believers had fallen so low into being unable act on their desire to escape.

[@SprayandPrayman22]

@@predalien902100 I'm wondering if they are the souls of the Titans, taken from their bodies that were sealed beneath the earth, now corrupted and given new form. Personally though, I don't think we will see a satisfying end to DA's lore. It's been so long and I have no doubt that many of the original story writers do not yet remain with Bioware.

[@Agustinguss]

@@SprayandPrayman22 yeah that's sad I don't have much hope for dreadwolf

[@whskyflvrdinslt]

Me, watching this 3 years later and seeing the Ghilan'nain design in those statues and concept art.

[@hea6399]

SAME oh my god

[@DagothDaddy]

Honestly even if this isn't how it turns out. I hope the elven gods retain that creepy twisted appearance. What I loved about Dragon age was how it toyed with fantasy tropes. Humans in DA:O are not from an empire or kingdom but instead descended from Barbarian tribes. Dwarves are hard drinkers and fighters but their hierarchy isn't based on strength in fact the Warrior cast is kind of low on the totem pole. So it would be cool to see elven gods normal depicted as pretty and soft handed in fantasy being these dark Lovecraftian monsters.

[@stars-and-clouds]

Completely agree

[@snappycenter7863]

Elves being depicted as lovecraftian monsters is actually a closer fit to the "Fair Folk" ideas that were the original views of elves.

[@7PlayingWithFire7]

Oh they definitely will, there's too much evidence for it. So multiple Bioware people have said, including Mark Darrah (producer of DA games), that they are called Archdemons cause originally they looked like lovecraftian angel demons. When they chose the name Dragon Age, they pivoted these designs for a dragon, as the game had no dragons. That decision made them add 3 dragons to the game (Flemeth, Archdemon and the High Dragon). We have seen the art, and it was added to the game in origins as the forms for the Evanures. It's most certainly their shape. They might be shapeshifters, but in the art for Dragon Age Morrison (codename) they showed us another design that invokes the evanures, and it looks like a huge centipede person monster thing. The teaser for Dreadwolf also mentions "the risen gods", suggesting Solas succeeds in tearing down the veil quite early, or at least frees the old gods/evanures, and that will be their forms.

[@ashavellanar1965]

Humans are from Par Valley, where Qunari came from. Alistair's blood is mixed with dragons.

[@Xwhitton22X]

Seems like you got your wish!!

[@sagearmaggedon7307]

Just watched your video again and something stood out. These gods appear so grotesque likely because they “mastered the dark that lies” as it states in Falon Dins codex. The gods that whispered to the magisters promised: the power of the gods themselves . Corypheus believed the magisters were tricked, but the whispering gods were being honest. We have seen two of the ancient magisters and they both command the powers of this darkness like no other tainted creature we have seen, outside of an Archdemon.

[@girltriesgames]

Yes, I definitely think the blight has a lot to do with all that went down. I actually had a whole section about that in this video, but cut it out for length's sake LOL Maybe I'll explore it a little more in another video!

[@sagearmaggedon7307]

@@girltriesgames I would love to see such a video in the future, as the blight is one of the most mysterious aspects of the lore. Reminds me of the darkness from the Fable series. Comes from the void and consumes everything

[@skopde]

Patience is a virtue, apparently. Now if only waiting for DA4 was as easy.

[@girltriesgames]

For real tho!

[@primepm8861]

It's been ten years. We can wait a little longer.

[@led_tower]

@@primepm8861 1 more month!

[@wulfreiks7239]

This aged well 😁

[@peterfthagn3646]

Seeing this 3 years later: Well, shit

[@hinkelstein1494]

28:34 This is so sad lmao

[@AlphaAurora]

Excellent work! You caught the hints, and it turned out to be correct. Veilguard Spoilers: The Tevinter old gods were the bonded pets of the elven gods. When the elven gods got exiled into the Fade, they maintained a link to the world through the old gods. They could use the old god dragons to speak to respective Tevinter priests in dreams, hence the thoughts of the old gods. However, it wasn't quite a perfect connection or interpretation.

[@CynicalWarlock]

Excellent work. Accurately figured out the truth 3 years before Failguard revealed it.

[@sagearmaggedon7307]

The giant monstrous serpent that we see in the concept art may very well be Mythal. If just a small piece of her can turn into a mighty dragon, what will the whole look like? Plus it has four arms. Alot of the statues we see that looks like a may represent Mythal has 4 arms. Even if my assessment is incorrect, I dare say that Flemythal is the one we should be afraid of. All of the events we see now are coming into place due to her nudging history and manipulating certain events, all to bring forth a reckoning.

[@girltriesgames]

Yes I can’t wait to see how it plays out!!

[@dranzerjetli5126]

Those are statues of mythal

[@assassinb460]

Is a broodmother. The evanuris are darkspawn, too, like the magisters.

[@sagearmaggedon7307]

@@assassinb460 perhaps. Truth is we dont actually know if the evanuris are actually darkspawn yet. If they are, they are a different kind of darkspawn

[@andrewvincent7299]

@@dranzerjetli5126 Ever notice how a version of those statues (which I agree is Mythal. I'm pretty sure David Gaider confirmed it) are in the Temple of Sacred Ashes? I have a theory that Andraste and Flemeth are connected and may be one and the same. If you read about both of their origins, they are very similar about how The Maker and a spirit came to them whispering in the woods. Both are from Ferelden, and if you look at art work of Andraste, she does bear a resemblance to Flemeth. Flemeth even wears a crown very similar to Andraste. Also, in Origins, there is a headless statue of Andraste near her hut. Not to mention that Andraste became close with a bald elf named Sol...err Shartan. All artwork of Shartan that's come out after Inquisition has him dressed EXACTLY like Solas in Trespasser. Something is up here. There is definitely a connection.

[@МайклДжексон-к4я]

Hello form June 2024) And we saw exact these two gods in the end of gamplay reveal trailer) And i think that's it, really 5 defeated acrhdemons were 5 elven gods, and two remaining will be back in the veilguard

[@Phoenix_DarkMoon]

So.....veilguard has just released and yep. Old Ones are the Evanuris. The Forgotten Ones are the titans and the blight comes from their dreams. Solas imprisoned both the titans AND the evanuris, but not at the same time. And apparently the "void or abyss" that the hunter goddess went into was the prison of the titans. And indeed, she became blighted, grew more powerful. Mythal stomped her, and locked it away but the other gods saw the power of the blight and got greedy and started experimenting with it leading to mythal's murder and solas's rebellion. Oh and the first elves were spirits that made.physical bodies out ofnthe blood of titans aka Lyrium which the titans percieved as an attack which is why they went to war in the first place.

[@shadow7179]

also if you subtract Fen Harel and Mythal from the Evanuris, you just so happen to have seven left (ignoring the Forgotten Ones) which is the total number of the Old Gods worshipped by Tevinter

[@Phoenix_DarkMoon]

​@@shadow7179 ​ yep....and yet when Harding finds all this out and has a crisis of faith about the maker rook can choose to pander to her "oh I still believe in the chant of light" No! You JUST had it proven to you that its all Bullshit. Don't pat her on the head and keep telling her to keep believing JFC. If Andraste's visions of the golden city, etc etc. Were what inspried the faith ofnthe chantry just tell her it was probably the elven gods. Whispering from the fade yet again to try and gain followers to shatter their prison like they did with Corypheus and the other magisters from tevinter.

[@nahtanlladoow7576]

Also.. (spoiler alert lol) they done us dirty with another cliffhanger of these mysterious hooded figures that have apparently been swaying the course and decisions of MAJOR characters going all the way back to DA:O…

[@Phoenix_DarkMoon]

@nahtanlladoow7576 scaled ones or executors probably.

[@Kopaka808]

What Are the Achdemons?

[@rilius7138]

Dragon age is one of those stories that cause me to kinda get the feeling that even the writers don't fully yet know it all. Maybe it has been left open so they can write the story in any direction they are required to without needing to retcon or contradict anything.

[@Kreadus005]

So many interesting things could happen in the final game. Solas and Mithal could be trying to tear down the veil and basically cause a form of Tranquility Reversal madness on the whole world... The grey wardens could awaken both Darkspawn dragons in failed attempt to prevent blights. Something could happen with Titans, man those things are confusing. What if the player could ALLY with the Blight against Solas to preserve the imperfect world? Complete madness.

[@LauftFafa]

its seems its confirmed now . the devs mentioned a double blight and Solas free by mistake 2 elven gods . and both were in the capital of tevinter .

[@girltriesgames]

And the Game Informer article mentioned the 2 elven gods are blighted, creating more darkspawn! kinda like a Blight!

[@LauftFafa]

@@girltriesgames so its kinda official . the old gods who caused the blight are none other than the elven gods . the 2 remaining blights are those 2 that appear behind solas and this mean we will get a double blight.

[@AndE667]

The ancient elves also seem to have had the power of transformation, and the dragon form was something that was to be exclusive to the Evanuris.

[@lizd2943]

I don't think the Old Gods are the Evanuris, I think they're the high priests of the Evanuris. I think the Evanuris were banished behind locked eluvians and their high priests in the dragon forms either contain the keys in some way or are the keys themselves. The whole purpose of luring the Magisters to the black city/Arlathan was to taint them to bring the Old Gods to the surface to be killed one by one and free up the keys so the Evanuris can return. That's why Solas blows his stack at the Warden's plan to kill the last Old Gods in their sleep. He says they never think about what would come after.

[@Emmie12Rainbow]

I personally really like this theory and I think it gives a good reason for why he hates the Wardens’ actions

[@SeventhheavenDK]

@@Emmie12Rainbow . the theory sounds kind of unstable, and also that would show once more Solas stupidity. So what would he expect? To allow the Old Gods to erase everyone in Thedas. Obviously no. Also, the part where he says Wardens don't think before acting sounded more that the Wardens methods are simply not the best way to deal with the Blight.

[@Emmie12Rainbow]

I think it's a worthwhile theory to think on, question, dismantle, etc. Not necessarily stating that it's "the conclusion", but I think it offers an interesting reason for Solas' disdain towards the Grey Wardens and their actions in regards to dealing with the Blight. I would love to know, do you have a theory on what you believe it to be? I generally just like viewing it from different perspectives and would be happy to hear what your take is on it :)

[@MrJordwalk]

@@Emmie12Rainbow I think the Old Gods are actually 7 pieces of Mythal. DA2 showed us she can split herself as an insurance policy and I think she did this before she was murdered, perhaps in anticipation of being slain and the sevenfold division weakened her enough that she could be killed. She bound 7 pieces of herself in the bodies of High Dragons, her associated animal and sealed them away where the Evanuris couldn't find them. Solas' disdain for the Wardens comes from the fact they've been sabotaging her reconsolidation by killing the Archdemons.

[@Agustinguss]

I loved this take it makes so much sense

[@Vonax637]

“Why would Flemythal want to preserve the soul of one of her killers” well ☹️ I was so into this theory until you made that point, yeah, that makes it weird. But I think considering 1. She chased Morrigan for years for that soul (idk what happens if Kieran doesn’t exist tho ://) and 2. The Grey Wardens/blights/Archdemons/etc. are oddly the things that makes Solas the most impassioned and upset (and he never really gives a good reason why beyond “the grey wardens are dumb”), yeah I think it’s undeniable the Evanuris (or the Forgotten Ones??) and Old Gods are directly connected somehow. And his comment about “nothing in lore connects…” well, since it’s his touchiest subject and he’s a great liar, I wouldn’t be surprised if he would want to keep that information especially under lock and key and would intentionally misdirect the Inquisitor from trying to connect the two. Anyway, great analysis!! ❤

[@draygoon69]

Just stumbled across this video even though it's a few years old. Now, I'm going to go down a rabbit hole of lore and connections since the release of Veil Guard is coming soon and see how these theories pan out.

[@davido.1233]

About halfway through the video, around the time when it's mentioned that Falon'din had lightning powers, I started to speculate that maybe the high dragons in Inquisition are somehow connected or descended from the Evanuris' dragon forms since there are two dragons in Inquisition that have lightning attacks (one in the storm coast, the other in the Exalted Plains). Like, maybe if the Evanuris had the power to transform into dragons, they somehow got down and dirty with female dragons and became progenitors for powerful dragons.

[@sophiehunter9745]

Heh. This is very interesting to come back to after playinf Veilguard

[@jenniferhanses]

I think there has to be a connection between the Old Gods and the Elven Gods just because if they were both physically real (and we do have evidence as of DA:V that they're both physically real) they would have had to interact with each other in some fashion at some point. But I am in favor of them being two separate things just because it provides for more Dragon Age games as we have more problems to solve.

[@wintertrooper7918]

I think the old gods are ancient dragons from before the veil back then dragons were incredibly powerful spirits so when the veil was erected they were split between a physical form and a spirit form

[@the-dark-side.]

I love the way your brain works. It's like mine but better lol. I've been postulating this for a long time. This is also evident when you consider how the darkspawn strung Cailin up to look like one of those statues. With the wings and everything in the Ostagar DLC. Why would they know what that is? Why would they do that to his body and him alone? Taken with the fact that his family seems to have some latent abilities because they drank some dragons blood a few generations ago.

[@girltriesgames]

Thank you!! I never thought about that! Probably because I've only played the ostagar dlc like once or twice haha but very interesting!!

[@the-dark-side.]

@@girltriesgames kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y6Gun5KDpN2En9k My pleasure. You can kinda see it here but you can only see the whole thing after and maybe before the cutscene.

[@belialarchitect1678]

WELCOME BACK!!!!!!! used to watch you twitch streams and always wondered why you stopped streaming. So glad you and lot of old school youtubers are coming back with recent DA and ME news! I miss these hype days!!

[@christineherrmann205]

You made me think about how easy it was to semi-defeat The Architect, only a DLC! But a whole game for Cory! Damn Solas. And yes, of course the Old Gods are the Evanuris. Oh, I'm pretty sure that the Old Gods/banished tried REALLY hard to get out... at first. But I'm starting to think what _really_ put Solas to sleep was not the banishment, but the binding. I think you are SPOT ON with the dragon form thing.

[@wardensurana8336]

Well, that tells you how badass the Warden is, and how useless the Inquisitor is.

[@captmoroni]

If the Architect had an Elvhen orb that gave the Evanuris godlike power levels, he wouldn’t have gone down that easily.

[@andrewvincent7299]

@@wardensurana8336 Well considering the Warden was level 30 when or if he/she defeats the Architect. It makes sense.

[@victoria-ol3fc]

me earlier today: /thinking about how much i miss dragon age theories/ girltriesgames: you are safe now, my sweet child welcome back!

[@fen.r1s]

i was looking up random theories on elfy stuff and you came up and i cant say how happy i am :D welcome back!!!!

[@girltriesgames]

Thank you!

[@williamballard767]

I believe it was Merrill who said that the ‘evil’ gods of Dalish legend were (are?) gods of disease and pestilence. There is also a codex during the quest “the mystery of winter” that one of the bad Gods will ‘strike in mastery’ when the Evanuris fall. Maybe they did strike once they found out that Solas imprisoned the Evanuris. Maybe they began to whisper to humanity and spread their pestilence (Blight).

[@daniloresende7293]

Dragon Age : the Veilguard Just confirmed this....2024

[@wintertrooper7918]

The archdemons look like dragons those two did not

[@matroska_5625]

The archdemons could be possessed by them - after all, the elven gods were in the Fade not the physical world. Like spirits and demons who possess things in the normal world. The thing that stands out the most is that there are 2 Old Gods left and for some reason only 2 eleven gods escape in Veilguard. It's a weird coincidence. Why would the other 5 not bother leaving through the tear?

[@matroska_5625]

That would also explain why they're asleep until the Blight begins. They're possessed at that moment as the Blight reaches them because perhaps the elven gods can only possess blighted things. Which is why only a Grey Warden can kill them because as it says in Origins, the soul of the archdemon goes into the Grey Warden (who themselves have drank blighted blood).

[@nunualma8230]

@@matroska_5625 No they don't possess the Archdemons. They are just powerful, immortal dragons that were linked to the Evanuris. They cannot control them in the fade. The blight just do what it does. And them being powerful beings, they in turn lead the blight above ground.

[@salvadora9148]

The Queen is back lol 🙌. I know there are a lot of great dragon age channels around but since I found yours a year ago and honestly you are top tier not only with information and presentation. Can't wait for more videos keep up the hard work lol 🙌.

[@girltriesgames]

Aww thank you that means a lot! 🥰

[@MerrillDragonAge]

Hearing Alistair's name in Solas' voice gives me tingles🎉😮🎉😮🎉

[@timetraveltylerpsna]

@25:25 another “what is this doing here” moment worth examining is the Claw of Dumat altar in the dark spawn warrens/heidrun thaig of the Descent dlc. According to a letter found by the base of the first encountered Claw of Dumat statue in the raw fade (Here Lies the Abyss quest) said statue was only unveiled by “Corypheus” shortly before the attempted breach of the fade by the magisters. Yet it can be found in a few spots, along with some interesting wall art, in a pre-blight thaig. The altar room specifically aligns quite well with the letter from the raw fade. Also, the table “Corypheus” is standing on @7:30 can be found in heidrun thaig as well. 🤔

[@depoittier]

This theory isn't new, but you've provided the most compelling evidence that I've seen so far. The statues and discussion around them were an excellent find!

[@dylanmiller9162]

Maybe the whispering of the old gods was because after the evanuris were trapped there, the old gods decided elves were a dead end now and opted to reach out to humans

[@ragnabolt683]

The lore setup from all 3 games has the potential to make Dreadwolf VERY successful if the writing is superb. I really, really do hope they land and deliver!

[@DagothDaddy]

This is blowing my mind it's very simmilar to GoT theories like Fagon at first glance you would never think it but then when someone points it out its so obvious.

[@oddersisadog]

I wanted to play an elf romanced to Solas and help him bring down the veil and kill the Evanuris. Sad beep when you find out that isn't an option.

[@SeventhheavenDK]

That's stupid.

[@ghostraptor6268]

Great video! It's also interesting to point out if you read the half-circles in the 2018 teaser poster from left to right, the 1st and 4th are lit, and if you list out the 7 unaccounted for Evanuris in alphabetical order Andruil & Falon'Din are 1st and 4th. Falon'Din and Lusacan seem to match up pretty well with their shared night/death domain, and as you pointed out the Moonheaded monster seems to tie in with Andruil as it's carrying golden spear like she was said to. Andruil is also referred to as the 'Sister of the Moon' and is often symbolised with a bow pointing down (i.e. her mosaic and DAI vallaslin) and that big honking headdress evokes both those things. So it could be that Falon'Din/Lusacan and Razikale/Andruil are the last Evanuris/Old Gods left which would be pretty cool to face off against! How Andruil would come to be known as a god of mysteries I'm not sure though. Then again she went mad hunting in the Void and I don't know to what extent she was supposed to have ever recovered? Maybe 'whispers' coming from her just don't make much sense lol.

[@misdafireinfexus5828]

spoilers: considering what we know , how solas created the veil, separating our realm and the fade. that being said, it seems very likely that some of the elven gods, or the 'forgotten ones' (the dark version of the eleven pantheon) may have gotten trapped on the wrong side of the veil, or in the fade- and it seems very likely some of them might want to come back, right? and how might they do that? dark magic. and when you can pick the body, why not pick a dragon? or maybe it relates to tevintors already holding dragons in such high regards, maybe they had influence over how the old gods formed when summoned? ive thought about this a lot recently and did a bunch of research on gods and the elves and stuff- the gods werent even gods, just really powerful old elves who either presented themselves as such, or came to be misunderstood as such later. I also believe that the maker is the sun god the all father of the eleven gods is supposed to have overthrown. and I also dont think any of the gods that the world has considered gods, are even gods at all- like, none of them. 'the remaining gods' are just the 'elves' that remained loyal to the all father or remained accepted but there were two clans of eleven 'gods' the pantehon we know much about, and the forgotten ones, or the other pantheon, which solas traveled between, as in he was good with and accepted by both tribes

[@luvleyluvsu]

Can I screen shot this? cause this is literally the best theory I have come across in a while this is exactly how I thought

[@Stargeek06]

I think they used to be guardians connected to Mythal, similar to the shrine guardian in inquisition that acted as her avatars. She's overflowing in dragon iconography quite specifically, and were likely put in to slumber by the Evanirus when they betrayed Mythal. OR possibly a gift from Mythal at first to the Evanirus... Or possibly just guardian dragons slumbering since Mythal's death. They'd make extremely powerful possession targets and a suitable form for an evil god-king/queen in their eyes, and as a bonus insults Mythal. The blight and the darkspawn is their influence and a method for controlling their former Thedas despite being limited and trapped in the Black City. We also can't forget that Tevinter is extremely close to where Arlathan was, there's mentions of the forest remains being haunted.. Ripping Arlathan in to the fade left a weak spot in the veil that the Evanirus were able to utilize and trick Tevinter in to worshipping them, using Tevinter to take vengeance on the surviving elves, eventually leading to the crappy times elves had post-veil. All the while digging for Mytha's guardians to destroy the world. So yeah that's my theory. I started typing and couldn't stop.

[@sugoistalin7809]

I dont believe this theory but its still possible that the elven gods are responsible for the blight and are corrupting the old gods, the dragons, for... Well reasons i guess. Its also possible they were posing as the old gods to manipulate their followers. Solas does in fact say that something worse will happen if the last 2 untainted old gods die.

[@OneWingedRose]

Here after the second Memory of Regret in Veilguard (still the first half of the game I think), brushing up on me elven lore now that I know Mythal is a big part of Veilguard. Thanks for the informative video! Has helped a lot!

[@agnosticgamerdarthdracarys5859]

Did Flemeth confirm the connection with the comment about her grandchild also holding a being thought long dead? Solas avoided answering the question by stating a fact.

[@christineherrmann205]

Wow... that Elgar'nan codex definitely sounds like the war against the Titans, yeah. I wonder if the appellation 'nan means 'dragon'?

[@afuoverthisuser2145]

Where is my titans video. Sorry for being so late excited for dreadwolf and youtube knows lol love your content

[@sagearmaggedon7307]

Not sure if someone pointed this out, butthat spear that the giant serpent entity is holding seems like it may fit the description of Andruils terrible golden spear

[@girltriesgames]

Yes!

[@sagearmaggedon7307]

@@girltriesgames After I finished watching your video, I see that you did mention. What in the world were these gods? They seem to be more monstrous than elvhen. There is something Solas isn’t telling us.

[@girltriesgames]

@@sagearmaggedon7307For sure! There's a lot of things Solas isn't telling us!! I'm leaning toward those two creatures being the last 2 old gods maybe? Whether they're equated to the evanuris or not... I can't wait to find out!

[@nicbahtin4774]

Maybe the old/elven gods didn't lie when they whispered to the magistrates. They did promise power and they given it in the form of the blight like not dying to damage and immortality is a sweat power. And something about the taint and the old God comming together is like equivalent of releasing the elven God or atleast a big step. Maybe the 7 blights is how they will be released. Don't know about attacking all life bit though.

[@ranasi1210]

Now, with cinematic trailer about Fen'Harel showing us the golden city turning black while Varric speaps about defeating the evanuris, this theory makes so much more sence. I mean...we have ancient elves, who lived long before the first blight, we have 9 elven gods and 7 of them were imprisoned while Fen'Harel and Mythal still walked among the people. So we also have 7 old gods who're turning into archdemons one by one and bringing all these facts together makes sence, esp if you remember that it was Flemeth, who told Morrigan of the dark ritual, and it was her once again to claim the soul of the ancient god back. I wonder if we're getting answers to questions this mess caused. And damn I hope I made sence explaining my point

[@Godiekgaming]

Time to get an updated video with the new trailer lol

[@trapezuntinus2458]

According to the codex entry "Elven Gods and Tevinter Gods" in chronological order Dumat - Dirthamen Zazikel - Falon'din Toth - Sylaise Andoral - Andruil Urthemiel - June Razikale - Ghilan'nain Lusacan - Elgar'nan It's interesting that it was June we killed in DAO.

[@jakobrenner2230]

I said it before and I'll say it again. It's a bit odd in retrospect how in the Imperium's society it was Dumat, not Lusacan, considered to be the mightiest of the Old Gods. Maybe Elgar'nan's imprisonment soothed his ego or maybe it's a full-blown retcon idk.

[@trapezuntinus2458]

@@jakobrenner2230 Well, Dumat brought the first blight and they had no idea how to end it, so I reckon he did the most damage. Have they even witnessed the other dragons in action before establishing who the strongest is?

[@lordofgingers]

@jakobrenner2230sure as outsiders looking in, but how would the vints in universe know what you said. As far as they were concerned the elves were a joke

[@chillax319]

I really liked these statues you shown at the start. They are cthulhuesque but depending on the added details they could've look regal and angelic in the "Be no afraid" kinda way. When it comes to the Blight there is a huge possibility that even all the archdemons are gone, blight will remain...and with no old gods left and their calling, the darkspawn will flood outside the world, in aimless, endless hordes.

[@wonkatar2813]

think: there are two kinds of elven gods: The creation ones who were typically nicer, while the others were darker and more manipulative. One group sought a weapon in Heaven (“the seat of the maker”. The other sought the weapon in the depths (the deep roads where the archdemons can be found). before solas sealed them away.

[@stars-and-clouds]

4:35 I'm pretty sure human and elven ruins have elven motifs and human motifs bc there was a period in their history, before elves started ageing (the quickening), when they lived in harmony and shared cultures. There are several human ruins with elven stuff in it.

[@larryrichards9418]

Holy cow! She's back. How long has it been? Years and years! Welcome back!

[@rhunmahariel7877]

Every now and then i go down the dragon age rabbit hole and I'm here again lol. Anyways, ever since we discovered Solas was the Dreadwolf, his dialogue on wardens, archdemons, blights, etc, always linguered on me. Why is he so upset with the idea if taking out the old gods before they can become archdemons? It would prevent future blights, which is a very good thing no? The Orlesian Wardens just went about it all wrong (and were also dumbfoundedly manipulated). My only thought, is that he is familiar with the old gods in some way. Either they're creatures he used know, pre Veil. Spirts maybe. Or maybe even the Evanuris themselves. Then what I also wanted to bring up, the dreadwolf concept art. The one of the giant cthulu-esque monster, that strikes a very similar resemblance to those same Origins statues. I've seen a lot of theories running around that the concept art is of Ghilan'nain. All these theories on the evanuris, old god, titans, etc, live rent free in my head man. I need dreadwolf to come out and at least have some good lore dumps.

[@wintertrooper7918]

He's not upset about the wardens taking out the blight or archdemons he's upset at their foolish plan that is likely doomed from the start The wardens hsve known the locations of all the archdemons resting place so why wouldn't they hsve built a massive army to take them out? Likely because they can't, perhaps the very presence of a tainted individual near the slumbering old god is enough to corrupt it

[@Soulvalkyrie1]

don't know if anyone has noticed but the figure to the right of the dread wolf on the wall painting looks very similar to that of the picture used to describe the Qunari more so when painted on a wall , maybe they are the descendants of an elder god but one which is awake and not corrupted by the taint of the blight and is trying to gain control of the world by conquering it

[@BrokeBech]

I also believe that Solas knows how the Qunari came into being, but while he slept, did _not_ forsee the Qun and how it would shape their beliefs and their people. After all, listening to him talk about the Qunari baker putting sugar into her bread during his journeys into the fade. He speaks so tenderly throughout that entire story about her. Why. (Ive also wondered why Flemeth's hairstyle both resembles a dragon but also horns since DA2?) Think about Iron Bull (and by extension, the Qunari). Truly consider _EVERYTHING_ he tells the Inquisitor over drinks after killing their first dragon. Something in that dragon "Spoke to him" Then look at his ears and their shape along with his party interactions with Solas throughout the game. If the Old Gods are, in fact, the Evanuris, have dragon forms as well as Elven... that opens up an entirely new can of worms and adds yet another layer with it's own questions and implications regarding this theory and the Qunari, who want to obliterate magic completely. Why do they revere dragons but hate magic? What is it about Tevinter that they came to despise it's Mages so deeply? Especially considering that Tevinter is the only place (that we know of) tied directly to the Old God Dragons. Was Tevinter responsible for the creation of the Qunari through blood magic in a somehow failed attempt to give themselves, or perhaps Elven slaves they intended to control, the power of the Old God dragons?

[@sakisaotome6753]

if you include fen harel there are only 4 forgotten ones rather than 7. though i think that quote from david is more of a half truth. he doesn't straight out deny that he just kept answering with questions. well, now we know some of those questions. why would the elven gods encourge the teventer to attack the elves? well because solas and the elves rebelled against them and had them locked away. he mentions that the elven gods were around from long before the old gods, but as you pointed out they only began speaking to humans 50 years after the imprisonment of the evanuris. as since they presented themselves as dragons rather than elves the humans wouldn't have any reasons to believe they were elven gods. as for their domains and the overlap .... they aren't actually gods. the evenuris were elven mages who were so powerful they came to be thought of as gods. so in other words they made up their domains. so if they were gonna go then an present themselves as different gods to the humans there really isn't a reason they couldn't just choose new domains over which they are the gods of. i mean they did choose entirely new names for themselves, why not new domains?

[@peterhanes7333]

Alternate theory: the Old Gods are not the Evanuris. They are the Forgotten Ones. Elven mages who rose against the Evanuris, stealing their draconic forms. Their followers hid among the humans, intermarrying among them and teaching them magic. Slowly, the humans they hid among forgot their elven roots, but remembered their gods under different names. And this mixed-race community became the Tevinter Imperium.

[@girltriesgames]

Yeah tbh I kinda like the old gods are the forgotten ones theory a little more but I never thought so far as it becoming the Tevinter imperium!

[@peterhanes7333]

@@girltriesgames Okay, this is full-on Crazytown, but try this theory on for size: Fen'Harel (Solas) is another name for Elgar'nan, the Elvish god of vengeance, and Mythal's husband. The Evanuris downplayed this, since it would destroy their legitimacy. His "justice", or vengeance, does have a tendency to go off the rails. The Veil destroyed Arlathan, and he currently plans genocide of humanity. Final point: Mythal knew he would do this, and faked her death. Her plan is to show up to "help" the hero of the next game. Her real plan is to "save" humanity from Elgar'nan, so humanity will worship her.

[@brutez2127]

Great video and such amazing attention to detail to find all the little connections hope there's some more videos coming in the future

[@16Vagabond]

Hmm. is the reason Flemythal wanted to trap the archdemon's soul using that ritual, to prevent one of the actual Evanuris from being freed when their mortal form in which they are trapped is slain, like Hakkon? One assumes Flemythal must have done this with archdemons from past Blights, too;

[@juliannesneary2674]

What if the old gods were what the evanuris worshipped? I thought, at some point, there was a suggestion that the evanuris weren't actually gods, but very powerful ancient elven mages. Could that be the connection?

[@Arauto_Kagnos]

My crackpot theory is exactly that. The Old Gods were ancient spirits worshipped by the Ancient Elvhes before the Evanuris' rise to power after the Elvhen war with the Titans, they could've been brought upon Thedas much like Hakkon's spirit was and perhaps once the Evanuris rose to power they sealed those abominations away. It still doesn't answer why they whispered to the Magisters to enter the Golden City, and their relation to the Darkspawn. Why would these abominations have the ability to Call upon the Darkspawn? What is their relation to the Blight?

[@kyleflanagan963]

I personally prefer the idea that the Old Gods are the fogotten ones. It doesn't shrink the world quite so much, and it also allows for the Forgotten Ones to be a bit more relevant to things. But consider another idea. The Old Gods are the forgotten ones, but unlike the Evanuris, they're closer to being actually Gods. Draconic spirits of unfathomable power who taught the Evanuris how to be the most powerful mages of all time. The Evanuris then betrayed them, locked them away and propped themselves up as the true gods of the elves. Their dragon forms are them replicating the true forms of their masters to give legitimacy to their Fen'Harel was the only one who wasn't a part of this betrayal and continued to be loyal to his masters and lover of all the lesser spirits. When Solas locked away the Evanuris, it weakened the seal on the Forgotten Ones/Old Gods who were able to begin speaking to humans in their dreams. They are much more cautious and reserved with the power they offer to the humans than they were with the Evanuris, because they fear being betrayed again. They try to lead the Magisters of Tevinter into the Golden City so that they can free themselves and kill the Evanuris, but the blight was left as a trap for them (probably by the Evanuris) thus corrupting them into the Archdemons. Most of this is just a neat idea, but I do have one, piece of evidence for this specifically. The Ancient Dwarven Thaig that is older than any other Thaig and predates humans in Thedas and yet has architecture that looks Tevinter. Dwarves are already nearly as old as the Ancient Elves already, and we don't really know how old this Thaig is compared to the history of the Dwarves. If it's as old as the Evanuris, then it could be an ancient Dwarven temple to the Forgotten Ones, whom they were also in contact with, separate from the Elves. Solas calls the Idol from that Thaig "his idol" which might mean he used it when visiting the dwarves and conducting rituals to learn from the Old Gods/Forgotten Ones.

[@AndE667]

In Jaws of Hakkon, we do find "Geldauran's Claim" that there are no gods, yadda yadda yadda. So I doubt the "The Forgotten Ones" considered themselves as gods, at least not in the same way Evanuris do. My theory is that the Forgotten Ones were the leaders of the escaped underground elves. And they probably taught the young dwarves their culture. Which kind of parallels the elven culture anyway, since the Evanuris were not real gods anyway, but more like "Paragons"... And then had the Shaperate erase their part, thus truly becoming "forgotten ones" Also, another connection I've noticed is that Evanuris might have also been the Avvar Gods! Since their god of wisdom and knowledge happens to be a bear, which is also Dirthamen's favorite animal.

[@rupaIii]

yayyy welcome back!

[@happythoughts4553]

I have missed your videos. Welcome back!

[@gabrielmourao2861]

i don1t know much of the others theories, but when i finished the last DLC of inquisition i was certain that the old gods are the elven gods, and were also the archdemons! That's why i think that the next game will have 2 archdemons to be slaying, based on the images that have been released and the lore told by solas and the codexs...

[@snappycenter7863]

Solas said the Evanuris were sealed away with the Veil and would be freed if he destroyed the Veil. If the Evanuris were the Old Gods, that means they'd also be the Archdemons leading Blights, meaning most of them are dead now and Solas would've brought that up in his big monologue at the end of Trespasser. Still a good video.

[@Xamufam]

maybe solas didnt know and has been out of the loop for too long

[@AndE667]

Could be that their souls aren't destroyed as the grey wardens assume?

[@VeenJen]

I haven't watched the whole video yet, but I have a theory that The Golden City was actually Arlathan (the capital itself) which was transeffered to The Fate with the Evanuris the second The Veil was created. So tevinter magisters actually visited not the throne of the Maker, but the seat of Evanuris (and Elgra'nan particularly, as he is the "All-Father"). If we consider what Solas tells us about the spirits and demons true (that it's the mortal minds/mages minds twist spirits into becoming demons) then MAYBE The Evanuris, who entered the Fade, and who were VEEEERRRRYYY EVIL (greedy for power and might, they had no empathy nor for elves who served them, nor for one another) actually twisted the energy of the Fade around them, tainted it and became possessed? They wanted absolute power and they wanted to rule everything and everyone, so the Fade and the spirits (demons in their case) gave them what they wanted the most, turning them into Archdemons in the process with great might and hords of servants???

[@VeenJen]

And maybe they didn't just lost access to the Fade, but they particularly wanted magisters to enter the Fade and break the Veil barrier so they could escape into reality and go to the Deep Roads and have a gooood sleeeeep

[@RPG3zay]

I’ve honestly been making the same connection and I feel like they link in to many ways not to be connected.

[@HaxAras]

It seems the only rebuttal is some obscure forums post from 2009, and even then, it seems like Solas speak for "We'll neither confirm, nor deny these allegations." We know a lot of Origins was retconned. In a video I watched recently, the uploader claimed the devs said the reason they made Awakening was to see if they were even going to make more Dragon Age games. I'm not quite sure how that's supposed to work, nor do I have the video or a citation. Regardless, I think it's pretty apparent they didn't have everything figured out from the start. Hell, the reason Desire Demons look like a succubus is because of a miscommunication. It's apparent (at least at the start) that they were making it up as they went along. I've heard in one of the Dragon Age books (I believe it was the DA: O collectors edition strategy guide) that the Archdemon concept art was those statues from the elven temples. But EA? said the game was called Dragon Age, so requested it have more dragons in it. So the Archdemon became a dragon. My guess is the Old Gods/Elven Gods thing wasn't really planned per se, I believe it was something they seeded evidence for as a possibility, but they left enough doubt that they could pivot later, if they so desired.

[@Kr33gola]

This guy is accully in the Veil but it doesnt move

[@BrokeBech]

Also, two main figures somehow always seem to be missing from the lore based theories. The Maker and Andraste, and everyone who was with Andraste when she was killed. With all these other Gods, _who_ is the Maker? Why is that never discussed with Solas, especially after we find him in Trespasser? Is the Maker a separate entity entirely? Is he just a fictional figurehead? Or are they the two Elven Gods, Mythal (Maker), Andruil (Andraste). Or The Forbidden Ones?

[@Royalscriber5633]

Just think that if the chantry is actually aware of this and that's why humans attacked and enslaved the elves to keep them in check and from regaining the power they once held. Considering how they treat mages it doesn't surprise me and the rebellion just shows you the eventual result. Are the old gods coming back, if they aren't dead, or is Solas going to cause something else to surface for better or worse

[@Goldenblitzer]

I could never be bothered with the writings in inquisition, but I loved hearing them be read out, makes me want to have a narrator, similar to how each tech, civic and such is narrated in Civ 6. If I could get Sean Bean or Charles Dance narrate the codex entries, or Henry Cavil, I'd be very happy

[@richieheim1180]

After imprisoning the Old Gods underground, the Maker turned away from mankind, and departed from the Golden City. So. In the chantry: the maker =solas Oldgods=Elvanuris

[@ariatloakstan]

You know, that concept art with the massive god-monster really reminds me of a 'Reckoning that would shake the very heavens'.... (wink wink)

[@ultimatedespairgamer6722]

I’ve been a big fan of the idea that the old gods aren’t the evenurus but were thier high priests or equivalent to them

[@Keyawnce]

Time to come back sweetie

[@girltriesgames]

I'm thinking about it!! 😅

[@debloos09]

Sounds like a build up of the next bad guy Lusacan or Falon'din the build up him being the final bad guy

[@texben123]

Me, I wouldn’t be surprised if the old gods, were the Elvin gods, and it is possible that the dread wolf/Solas is the maker that the humans worshiped. So I wouldn’t be surprised if the dread wolf helped Andraste free humanity from Elvin rule and overthrow Elvin Gods too, and put up Veil. And why he called the dread wolf/the maker, because he literally betrayed his own kind for humans. but they never met him in person and don’t even know his name. Because the human just assumed the maker was a god , and in a sense there correct just he’s Elvin one/and why called the dread wolf, which is an insult from the elves. That he put up the veil

[@wintertrooper7918]

But humans didn't appear in thedas till long after the veil was erected

[@DagothDaddy]

Elven gods in fantasy are always presented as generally petty I would love to see them presented as these dark twisted things mutated by centuries of Magical expirementation on themselves and centuries locked away in the fade. I also think it would be great story the Dalish to be confronted with this reality of their gods being these Lovecraftian horrors to see how their hatred of humans was for nothing. Fantasy also always presents the Human elf conflict as one sided if was discovered that elves caused their own downfall it could add some turmoil and character the Dalish are severely lacking.

[@DavidWilliamsThatsMe]

that would be really cool! I really like the idea of them experimenting on themselves for more power a lot. Solas certainly seems to think they were full of themselves and kinda implies they were power hungry too...I mean, he straight up says the Elven face tattoos began as slave brands (and removes yours, if you romance him) so, it's not like the elven "gods" were really "for the good of their people" for the most part. It would also explain why Solas is so pissed at the Dalish for continuing to worship them...Especially after Solas apparently went to all this effort to free the Elven people from their overloads or what have you. At least, that was the take away I got from trespasser. All that said though, Elven hatred of humans still wouldn't be "for nothing" exactly ...I mean, Humans still enslaved them or shoved them into ghettos as second class citizens...and that "hatred" runs both ways. Lets not forget that many humans are pretty anti-elf too. So I mean. There is that. I dunno, I think the DA elves have suffered quite a bit of turmoil actually. If they aren't being enslaved by their own people, they are being enslaved by Tivinter, or pushed around by everyone else in current time, or virtually homeless nomadic hunters on the verge of cultural erasure and physical oblivion...It seems a rather steep fall from the "High elves" I see in a lot of other fantasy world's , personally.

[@azurastar3223]

It's because their world was basically destroyed in a day and it fell on the slaves, as the only ones left to try and put the pieces back together. They know things should be a certain way but not the why or how. They tried to reverse engineer an entire culture.

[@sidetracker3496]

I hate this theory because its just more "ELVES DID EVERYTHING AND ARE EVERYTHING" bs that Dragon Age started leaning on with Inquisition.

[@MaryDunford]

True. But that's the beauty of DA. They did the same with mages and templars. It's a deliberate conflict with no easy, or hard and fast, culpability. It's designed to make the player think. Especially about labels/ groups. ❤

[@mattmagliocca956]

Say anyone else noticed that Dumat died in ~203 Ancient and Andraste was born the exact same year?

[@PTLANS]

I assume since bloodmagic taps into the void, the mages tainted the fade-city-prison holding the old gods just by performing their ritual. The blight drives the darkspawn to the dragons to allow the old gods to reincarnate into the dragons turned archdemon just like corifeus does with darkspawn. Falon Din might simply be a traveler like through the mirrors or the fade. Solas states the elven gods were just extremely powerful mages. Elves and dragons might be connected the way dwarves and titans are.

[@PTLANS]

It could also be that the old gods are dragon-mages that bound the elves into service like the dragon cultists. Fen probably led them on an astral fade journey and tricked them into a prison city, locking their minds while their bodies slept. Doesn't make much sense that they'd slept outside palace temples though.

[@danielhoward9729]

Fen'Harel and Mythal are just Dragon Age's Bonnie and Clyde. Now you must choose to help them and the elves or doom them and save the world as you know it. Both seem like decent prospects for the game.

[@rfc1526]

A fantastic theory.

[@christineherrmann205]

In other news, how did I miss this!

[@hornedskullasmr7811]

Maybe that centipede moffo is a curropted fragment of the elven gods? I dunno i have sadly gotten rusty on my DA lore

[@msskullz1168]

im very interested in the Lore of Dragon Age and i had no idea that the statues that i ran past servel times in the games were connected to the Old Gods. Solas knew all about the old gods. The more i watch about Dragon Age lore and the old gods and how they became corupted by the darkspawn makes sooo much more sense to me now. Although one question remains, How did Mythol become part of Flymeth and passed on to Solas?? Did she just posses them to further extend her life as part of being on old god and being attached to a physical form??

[@johnreewr2695]

You have no idea how long I've been waiting for your arrival to KZbin. Still though this does make sense if these dragons are related to the old gods or eleven gods, interesting to because from what we know the time period for trespasser was *9:44** dragon* I'm pretty sure that the events from DA4 will be taking place a year or 2 after making it 9:46 dragon... Lol it all makes sense it is the age of dragons. Dragon age...

[@Filurioh]

OMG she’s back. I missed your voice 💕

[@BlankEmporium]

2:29 I wonder if that design really means anything, of if someone behind the scenes just really, really, really likes the design of it.

[@eugeneworthington7042]

Something I'm always thinking about when these sort of theories arise is, "Has the author or writer simply not made up their mind or wrote themselves in a corner?" Sorry, a year late to the discussion, but I think your points are hard to dispute. The direct writings, codex entries, etc., back up a connection. If I was writing the games, I would only write this way if I wanted the player or reader to draw such connections. Its possible that maybe some of the assets simply got reused, and that is why we see those statues commonly used, but I think you have the right of it. In the case of the rebuttals, particularly with Kieran and the Old God soul, I think they simply wrote themselves into a bit of a corner with keeping the DAO Warden alive. Or perhaps they'll craft a story of some sort of relationship between Urthemiel and Mythal that makes Urthemiel a more tragic god. The gender of all the gods, probably quite fluid. Maybe it mattered in drawing connections at one point, but I certainly think it wont matter now. Gods being gender fluid is quite common in mythology.

[@the-dark-side.]

OMG! You came back?! You came back and i missed it lol.

[@ZenJestr]

how does it feel to know that your mind and meat are huge for this Solastrodamus prediction

[@mazhiwezakizo3513]

this is unrelated, but do they ever mention humans before the time of the fade? where did humans come from?

[@ieasy12]

Only mentions seem to be barbarian tribes from the north.

[@uplinklawn9138]

What do you think of the imagery they just put out with Solas' summary for Dread wolf?? It gives this a bit of validation imo!!

[@Arauto_Kagnos]

Definitely seems the Evanuris and the Old Gods are related.

[@marcelsansalone3829]

Aaaaaand Your theory was correct lol nice

[@narcosys6934]

They are, the numbers line up. Just cause solas says he believes both the old gods and elven gods existed doesn't mean they are separate. He could just be saying they are just two sides of a coin.

[@texben123]

I forgot that the Elvin can shape shift into dragons, similar to a certain witch we know and the mother of Morgan. I already know that she’s an Elvin god. and can transform into a dragon. My theory is Elvin Gods ruled over the elves, dwarfs, and humans either a servants or slaves, until dread wolf put up the veil to separate them from this world. and they were trapped in the veil. Thousands of years later , the elves ruled most of the world enslaved, the other races. Until the first dark spawn/mages went into the holy city of the maker, and probably experimented with dark magic and experimented on the Elvin Gods turning them into archdemons, and experimented on other life forms, creating the dark spawn, releasing them into the world, and probably tried to conquer the world until they were defeated. By the Greywardens . But that’s mostly a theory.

[@wintertrooper7918]

Humans didn't show up in thedas till long after the fall of the elvehenan