Are USB Speeds A Lie?

[@nothingtoseehere93]

“Are they cheaping out on us?” Yes. The answer is always yes.

[@Mr.Morden]

Meanwhile... people still keep paying for unnecessarily expensive m.2 drives with speed they will never use and a false capacity measurement (MiB/MB) developed by a shady hard drive marketing department in the 90s. But that's not enough, now they're putting ridiculous heatsinks on them too so they can cost even more.

[@ArniesTech]

Economics 101 😅🤣

[@LorikQuinn]

@@Mr.Morden WOW 9999999999TB/S with my new Hyper3000 Overclocked SSD and now i have to use coke to even notice a difference in speed

[@apeters8]

More like "yes but"

[@djsaekrakem3608]

@@Mr.Morden actually, I bought my m.2 nvme only because it was cheaper new than the Sata SSD's at the time xD I go with whatever cheaper usually.

[@edbp7689]

Also there's the fact that many USB cables only have USB 2.0 wiring even when they're type C, so, taking music to your phone or doing backups can take a while.

[@Daniel-fr3us]

Also theres Apple

[@edbp7689]

Lightning connector much?

[@t0biascze644]

Lot of phones have USB 2 C port so most cables are also only USB 2

[@SoftBlade7]

@Hermann[best channel] spamming

[@hubertnnn]

@@t0biascze644 There is no such thing as USB 2 C USB-C is only available since USB 3.0

[@francoisscala417]

Extra tric, in the device manager you can view "Devices by Connection" so you can see which USB devices are sharing the same USB controller.

[@oshii3585]

Makana

[@krowe985]

This should have really been pointed out in the video, because I finished the video like "OK, but now what do I do and how." Now I know how to find out which plugs are to which controllers so that I could pair my mouse, keyboard, fan, mic, dac, etc all on the same controller, so that other controllers are left open for data transfers! Thank you for this tip!

[@xcbrr50]

USB Tree View

[@yaroslavpanych2067]

This is not extra trick, this is how it should be used by everyone. Anyone who doesn't use that way is not considered a human, so don't wait to be treated as such.

[@isaiahsmallwood1871]

Just letting you know, the comment section appreciates you

[@holdepar]

The main LTT channel should do a video on the effects of overloading USB controllers

[@WitchMedusa]

That would be a cool deep dive video to do

[@arturssosnars811]

On that topic would love to see if enough (let’s say 4) HTC base stations for HTC vive can overload controller if plugged in in wrong configuration

[@hitime.]

I thought they did this with the Mac mini

[@Your_Local_Weirdo75]

@@WitchMedusa yeah

[@Pax.YouTube]

True. This sounds like a true LTT video.

[@skelebro9999]

Linus on this channel? That's a rare event.

[@EdoardoSimonetti87]

15 times in the last 6 months. Is it a rare event?

[@skelebro9999]

@@EdoardoSimonetti87 From what I've seen it seemed like one.

[@elextroblaze]

Remember when he was practically the only host like 7yrs ago?

[@gamemaker6985]

@@EdoardoSimonetti87 do you keep track of that?

[@ViliamF.]

Short videos require short people.

[@Zetaphor]

As a former Oculus CV1 user, it was pretty much a requirement that you purchased a specific USB expansion card that had one controller per port. Once you hooked up 3 sensors and the headset, you were overloading just about every consumer mobo on the market at the time. Those camera sensors are blasting down 60fps video streams each in addition to the headset requiring USB for power and controller tracking. This was the most common issue issue and that dedicated card worked every time. Thankfully we've moved past that now with inside out tracking on new headsets (and then the Valve/HTC/etc Lighthouse setup using passive laser projection)

[@AltonV]

Also a requirement according to Linus if you use multiple vive trackers

[@gamagama69]

I still use a cv1, with 2 connected to my 5gb ports and 1 and the headset connected to the 10gb ports which use a different controller. Is it worth buying one of those card now?

[@joaquinneis]

Oh I remember those days, I learned so much about USB - USB controller with the CV1. Fortunately, with a Z370 Godlike I never bought an expansion card. Just had to be really thoughtful about where to connect all the USBs.

[@waldevv]

Those were some dark days. Having janky USB cards and random USB extension cables and all sorts of stuff causing the CV1 to have a mind of its own. Then on top of that Windows doing some weird USB power saving schenanigans and Oculus updates etc. causing further mayhem VR was so new and cool so it was worth the trouble but man it's so much better now, even though the gameplay is pretty much the same at least those issues got resolved. Now I just put my VR headset on and start an app and I'm instantly connected to my PC wirelessly and have no external sensors to deal with

[@_._shinonome_._]

The trick is to use an add in card that uses a renesas controller. Renesas controllers are usually way better than the more common ones such as asmedia

[@4littlenightmares212]

There’s never usb enough on my desktops/servers

[@Xanderqwerty123]

I have 2 usb hubs and i still don't have enough

[@randomdude8897]

@@Xanderqwerty123 2 usb hubs with how many ports?

[@DrWurzeli]

same. got 11 ports in total (5 rear ports + one powered hub with 4 ports and 2 front) and all of them are in use except one that is reserved for usb sticks.

[@randomdude8897]

@@DrWurzeli On top of my 6 rear ports, I have a powered 16 port usb 3.0 Sabrent hub. It's fantastic.

[@catsspat]

You can use USB Device Tree Viewer (Windows) to see what device is connected to what controller chain, and move things around to optimize things. For example, you can try to avoid sharing a controller for high-bandwidth devices and plug in all the low-bandwidth stuff (keyboard/mouse) to the same controller chain.

[@gblargg]

Exactly. This was left out of the video. Your PC has multiple USB controllers, so if you're say copying between two external drives, be sure each is plugged into a different controller. Might require plugging one in the front and one in the back.

[@s18067]

OK but now we need a video of LTT connecting 128 devices to a single USB controller

[@SullivanInfinity]

"Are motherboard manufacturers cheaping out on us?" - Yes. Just like any other industry :)

[@ErimlRGG]

I deal with this problem almost daily and I had to stop using some devices of this. Sometimes my Audio Interface sometimes drops when I'm doing a lot of stuff. Since I have an external drive, the audio interface, midi keyboard, mouse, keypad that I used for macros and drawing tablet. I had to stop using the keypad and only connect the drawing tablet to prevent my audio from dropping. Maybe the fix would be to get a PCIe USB card but I haven't done the research

[@SableDrakon]

It should, as you're using an additional host controller by installing the card.

[@kenhaze5230]

I do appreciate the facial expressions and gestures like Linny is a stage actor. Helps engagement!

[@GiorgioBrown]

LTT should make a video of storing data using 127 USB sticks attached to a USB hub chain to a single controller( and then plug in the same to each port)

[@photonboy999]

@Hermann[best channel] , Go away (probably a BOT). We don't need your rudeness here.

[@famitory]

kinda makes you wish for a return to the old style of motherboards where they gave you the bare minimum and then you added the IO you needed via cards. given that a lot of standards (NVMe, thunderbolt, ect) are kinda just PCIe with extra steps, this is a lot more cost effective than the old 8 ISA and PCI cards in a system used to be.

[@BigDrewski1000]

Huh. Never really knew any of this. Would be interesting to see a more in depth vid on this topic on the main channel.

[@InvadersDie]

They don't do in depth, never have, never will

[@Kobra319]

The biggest lie in this video is everyone was able to plug in the usb on the first try.

[@gamechamp19]

Now I know Linus is going to do a video connecting 127 devices to 1 usb port, and another video showing at what point multiple usb ports in use might bottleneck each other

[@kevin_spanish]

Wondering when LTT gets a letter in the mail from Renault about those shirts lmao

[@dellomino3703]

i need this!

[@miquelfire]

I'm on a computer (8th gen Intel) with only 1 USB controller... Come on Dell! Well, it's made for the business sector where the end users won't have much going on with the USB ports anyway. I think the most bandwidth heavy USB device is a camera, with the next being a sound bar... that might explain why I sometimes notice mouse clicks not working at times. And as I typed this comment, something happened to cause my browser to just lock up for a bit.

[@miquelfire]

Okay, my home computer only list one controller as well. I wonder if some of the hub devices in device manager are actually controllers or was there some random tread started that cause motherboard makers to only use one controller for USB suddenly for some reason. Kinda annoying that a game motherboard shows only one controller in device manager.

[@gblargg]

Wow, just looked at mine (Optiplex 9010) and lsusb only lists one USB 3.0 root hub, despite having four USB 3.0 ports (but THREE USB 2.0 hubs). Good thing I don't do much copying between USB 3.0 drives.

[@Elias-fb5zl]

USB is like having a Ferrari for City traffic only

[@dil6969]

For most users, it doesn't matter that much. 90% of the devices regularly connected to a PC's USB ports are simple, low bandwidth devices like peripherals, microphone, DAC, etc. The odd time I am transferring a ton of data, it's usually on a single port. Frankly, extra controllers just increases complexity, cost and the number of failure points. More niche use cases have add-in PCI-E cards that can fulfill the role of increasing total USB bandwidth capabilities.

[@ragepoweredgamer]

I use almost all 10 ports on my PC most of the time... Mouse, keyboard, volume knob (new keyboard doesn't have one), Guitar Hero controller, Microsoft wireless dongle, webcam, microphone, wired controller, printer, and one USB cable for charging my speaker/radio.

[@FaresDjebbar]

Wait a minute, is that Renault logo on the T-shirt?

[@stevenrburgoyne]

I had an issue where plugging in more than two HD webcams into a computer would make neither of them work via USB. I had to get a special powered PCIE 16x card with 5 USB ports on it, with each one having a dedicated controller and interface to get it working.

[@ptpracing]

I would love to see more on this subject. As someone who shares a PC between a desktop gaming setup and a racing simulator I am using a lot of USB.

[@zodwraith5745]

I was expecting a suite of actually useful USB benchmarks then realized what channel I was on. My USB flash drives never hit even half their rated speeds regardless what port I plop them in.

[@epobirs]

Way back in the USB 1.1 days, a chip design division within AT&T recognized the shared bandwidth problem and made a controller chip that offered the full 12Mb/s (before overhead) on each of four ports. This was in anticipation that PC would soon do everything with USB and this would be a valuable product to PC designers. This might have worked out if they held out for the advent of USB 2.0, which is when the Universal part of USB began to be realized. But, AFAIK, the product had been dropped from further development by then.

[@ToninFightsEntropy]

Power! That's a reason to have more controllers! I''m always maxed out and have to choose between my primary security camera and my microscope.. I can get 4 cameras max if the others are $5 endoscopes OOC I highly recommend ContaCam for security software and IVCam to link in old phones (and take out the IR filters with a scalpol and heatgun - IR lights are only a few dollars on ebay to compliment them))

[@hubertnnn]

You do know that USB 2.0 Power delivery specification was specifically designed to power exactly 1 high power (5V 500mA) device or 4 (+hub) low power (5V 100mA) devices. To get more you need an active hub (one with its own power brick that can provide high power 500mA ports).

[@Mu7eD-Stream]

If power is your issue buy an external powered USB hub and your problem is solved or one that connects to a lighting port(lighting ports have higher power availability than USB). Just read the specs of the hub, many will fast-charge your phone now.

[@yaroslavpanych2067]

How power requires extra controller? Controller take care about data lines, they don't have handle internally power circuits, like at all. More over, good controller will just control external power supply circuit, if it is part of USB spec at all.

[@Voidkitty_]

“Even mid to low range machines can offer more USB then you could possibly know what to do with” -me with an external disk drive floppy drive, about five mice I have plugged in at a given time, a keyboard a microphone, and a webcam: are you sure about that

[@autisticgod3338]

I remember doing a ton of research on this stuff when my quest 2 wouldn't connect to my PC so I spent a ton of time trying to figure out why it wouldn't work I even bought the oculus branded cable until I found out that it was an issue with the drivers of my GPU at the time so I downloaded an older driver and it worked even without the 80 dollar cable and the bunch of other crap I tried

[@bigtitmaster]

that cable better be gold, not copper

[@samtherat6]

Linus saw the script complaining about VR sensors and USB ports and used his executive power to take over.

[@CoolJosh3k]

I notice usb storage products advertised with their real upper limit (like 500MB/s), right along with a huge advert for 10GB/s USB 3. They sure as heck want to to know about the max speed of usb, even if their device uses so little of that.

[@Vin-qf9pu]

As someone with a flight sim AND race sim rig, yes, i use all of them. But i get the point if you actually need power or moving data.

[@reggiep75]

I've hated the USB header issue FOREVER! I separate various ports and make sure only one USB item is connected and the other ports aren't used to ensure that the full bandwidth is available.

[@irwainnornossa4605]

It would be very useful to know which USB port is connected to which controller. These limitations remaning theoretical though. I'm that dude, who has like…4 external storage devices plugged in (because ntb), better yet, through USB hub. I've never have had any issue.

[@Techno-Universal]

Many computers also have controllers that support different speeds and different USB port types as a laptop with three USB 3.4 ports and one USB-C port that also supports Thunderbolt and DisplayPort could likely have two or three different USB controllers. On top of that all of the USB controllers might be powered by a single 3 amp 5 volt rail from the power controller so everything that’s connected can combined only use a maximum of 15 watts so 15 watts would be the maximum total power output from the laptop for it’s USB ports.

[@fattomandeibu]

That's why I go with cases with 5.25" bays. Just plug in a PCIe USB controller, hook a second front panel into one of the 5.25" bays, connected it up to the controller card and you have full speed USB 3 to USB 3 copying on your front panel. An even bigger advantage of PCI cards is that as new standards arrive, you can simply buy a new controller card and front panel to upgrade your I/O without the need of a new motherboard. ExplainingComputers has some great videos on this and other useful things like installing a hot swappable dual bay 2.5" hard disk/SSD front panel into a 5.25" bay.

[@AtariBorn]

Those PCIe lanes are also shared with onboard devices like Wifi, bluetooth, audio, etc as well as other PCIe expansion cards installed on the motherboard. It's just as easy to rob resources with expansion cards but the biggest bottleneck will be cheap USB devices, with little to no cache onboard. The cheapest USB 3.0 stick will not be able to read or write as fast as a reputable brand would. Some USB sticks, labeled as USB 3.0, have speeds slower than USB 2.0. Onn branded sticks will read/write quickly, for a few seconds and then stop for up to 10 seconds, before resuming. It can take up to 30 minutes to fill up a 32GB stick, depending on the size of the files being copied.

[@fattomandeibu]

@@AtariBorn I use hard disks and SSDs with a SATA to USB 3 cable, so that isn't the concern. It's when copying files from one SSD(or even HD if it's sequential on fast drives) to another. Having both on the same controller can bottleneck it, so a PCIe controller plus front panel sockets on the 5.25" bay for easy access does the job fine.

[@MasterZeroFX]

A water is wet, ice is cold, fire is hot type of video.

[@hobbica]

that tshirt reminds me of the renault logo

[@C4M3R0NM]

Did my blunder at the LAN party inspire this video??? Thanks for the TechTip, Linus!

[@slizzze]

Why Linus is wearing a shirt with Renault logo on it ?

[@TeddieBean]

Linus lookin fresh with an updated trim after the LiveLaughLiao™ haircut incident 😂😂😂

[@mqcapps]

Yvonne put her foot down

[@TeddieBean]

@@mqcapps you spelled Jake wrong :3 🤣

[@PedroBastozz]

Yeah usb power limit is terrible. I have around 20 usb devices plugged in my pc and sometimes some rgb lighting blinks because there isnt enough power It’s annoying af.

[@briangullens5351]

Linus, we want you to connect 127 devices to a single controller please.

[@isaac10231]

It's crazy top engineers and scientists spent hundreds of hours designing the USB C spec only for it to fall flat half the time with it's confusing naming scheme and identical looking cables that peform like crap.

[@Arthemesia]

This video just made me realize why my pcie expansion card of usb ports isn't working. I run a music studio and all of my outboard gear isn't working with the few ports I have

[@Kitteh.B]

How would one identify which ports go to which controllers though?

[@onlysublime]

Is there an easy way to tell which ports go to which controller?

[@divyam._.maheshwari]

*Yayy! Linus on Techquickie! Linus on Techquickie!*

[@jorgenthompquist226]

Or you could go the Apple way and have HDMI 2.0 instead of 2.1 + a UHS-II card slot instead of III because a 40gbps thunderbolt controller isn’t enough to support full speed for both. I’m sure 99% people wouldn’t mind a slower SD transfer when simultaneously watching 8k videos…

[@Axonteer]

when using a hotas, power delivery over usb can become an issue, if you use connectors that get fed from the same main source it can be that the hotas starts to ghost.

[@pirategirljess]

How much bandwidth does that glitter lamp use?

[@stevenmckenna745]

now that you've said it, i'd really love to see you try and set a world record for the most usb devices connected to a single computer.

[@aBeerFromHere7994]

4:05 The cheapest air conditioner is a pc case fan. There are even USB to 3Pin conectors.

[@Alexifeu]

I have many USB 3 and much above that ports and I have them all taken up except 2 on the front which are for controllers, usb sticks, phone and such

[@southernguy35]

I like how his voice gets so high, like a dancer wearing tights too high.

[@RadOo]

To be honest, you can push it further and set the device manager to list the devices by connection so you can visually see where is what.

[@Velkanis]

ngl that smug face on the thumbnail is gold...

[@Spyr0999]

We want a video on ltt trying to connect as many usb devices to a single controller as possible

[@andyguest6543]

That t shirt looks just like a Renault logo

[@ShukenFlash]

I learned the hard way which port on my computer share the same controller. If I plugged in an external drive or SD card reader and tried to move a large file on the same USB controller as the port my mouse and keyboard were on it almost completely took down my keyboard and mouse until the transfer finished. Which also meant I couldn't even click stop on the transfer, lol

[@MadMusicLine]

But where can I see, what usb connector is connected with what USB controller? I can't rly see it in the manual 🤔

[@uvbe]

Ah, that's why my phone charges slow. I have every single USB port occupied, and im actually lacking like 2 or 3 more.

[@VRJacky]

As a VR creator, Ive had to use 2 PCIE slots for USB expansion cards

[@POLARTTYRTM]

I can use up to 12 usb ports at a time, so I need a lot of them. People that run simulators such as flight/racing know what I'm talking about.

[@Bajicoy]

I now have an interest to seeing the largest nas possible using nothing but USB hubs and flash drives/external drives

[@drozcan]

shirt looks like renault logo

[@BareSphereMass]

0:06 That is a lie! I routinely run out of USB ports, and I have to unplug one thing, like my sound knob or mic to plug in a thumb drive. I need more USB!

[@abdullahshah4510]

2 years ago??? Ok. Get a hub

[@photonboy999]

*USB2 is 36MBps...* It took me YEARS to realize that my slow USB HDD speed were because 24MBps of it was overhead to move the data. I believe "throughput" is the larger number on the box (i.e. 60MBps/480Mbps) and "data speed" is the actual data (36MBps) that is being moved. Anyway, I finally clued in when I bought a USB3 HDD but still got 36MBps. I did some digging and found out it because the USB cable was bad and Windows ran it at USB2 protocols.

[@Shiny_Hunter_Rob]

Okay, now I want to see a computer with 127 USB devices.

[@TH-xj8ep]

Nice Renault t shirt! 😁

[@nl817]

127 devices to the controler varies. some can only handle like 64 and everything counts as 1 device. I know, I've tried. Had to buy extra USB cards and specialty USB cards w/ 4 controllers each, etc. its a mess. would be nice if you guys would do a video on that! All the devices were external HDs, some wall powered, some just small portable powered via usb.

[@terratenientesalgo2511]

i always occupy 20 usb ports at all time, i use those usb hubs with a button so i can deactivate the ones i am not using because i own a lot of mices and keyboards and use them all the time.

[@Czemyslau]

Easy way to run out of usb ports - just make some custom controlers with arduinos (leonardo or micro)

[@Noone-of-your-Business]

More often than not, I have had actual data rates not even reaching 10% of the advertised theoretical limit. This is where plain straight up *_fraud_* begins.

[@supervegito2277]

Hmm... is there a way to see which ports share a controller?

[@unvergebeneid]

3:30 Wait, can we talk about that throwaway line of the logic of the controllers not being able to handle traffic even before the bandwidth caps out? What's up with that?

[@krisbrightspirals]

I love my separate controller per USB 3.1 port pci-e card by Highpoint! I can give 4 different virtual machines 4 different controllers so they can have their own dedicated USB port

[@randalthor2973]

I came about this problem at work, I needed to plug a diagnostic tool via usb to a laptop and it wouldn't work because of the already two 4 ports hub connected.

[@LithFox]

I think the weirdest part is... i use 7 vive Trackers (by default, 5-7 vive dongles) And... a wheel and pedals and h-shifter and a seq shifter/handbrake and my wheel has it's own USB port for the buttons and a stream deck and the mouse and keyboard and a camera and a usb mic and my VR HMD has a usb port and THAT has a usb port on it for the face tracker.... ..... Okay honestly, what's the best way to have that many devices plugged in?

[@Gesteppie]

I have that problem with VR. You can tell when the USB controller is overloaded in VR coz your right controller will start funking out

[@errordtp]

"Renault" t-shirt? 😂

[@yoyodynepropulsion.systems]

Should create a USB Raid of 20+ drives and tell us the various results of speed and reliability.

[@grodenbarg]

Those USB devices, that draw only power from the ports (like fans and lamps, or to charge devices). It is best to use a dedicated USB power supply for those items, instead of PC USB ports. IMHO😁

[@gilbertplays]

Me when nearly all USB ports are filled with External HDDs.

[@NonLegitNation2]

atleast when it comes to external storage there aren't even any external storage devices that should totally saturate a USB lane. So while your USB 3.1 port may list that it's capable of 5gbs per second or whatever, you won't get that speed if you're plugging in a 7200rpm external HDD. The USB speed is limited by the actual device speed. And manufacturers also love to label external storage with fantastic speeds. For example I purchased a 10TB 7200rpm external HDD and the box says it's USB 3.2 gen 1 - 5Gbps to make the uninformed think that that is the speed it will get, when in reality since it's a 7200rpm HDD it gets about 250Mbps if I'm lucky.

[@ArthurDeKeersmaeker]

in my case if you ask to much power from the usb port, (3 moisturiser fan coolers, a phone, a webcame, keyboard and mouse), the power to your usb port will stop. I had unplugg my pc before it would work again

[@gamesoo7]

That means if you want to transfer data faster remove unwanted usb from your motherboard (cabinate)

[@Darkhalo314]

Linus, please do a video where you hook up 127 USB devices and see what happens

[@ZygyInRs]

If you are trying to copy data from 1 flashdrive to another is it better to plug them into the same controller or different controllers

[@Starfals]

Yea, i use like 8 USB external drives, and its not exactly a smooth ride.

[@will24655]

All my usb ports are plugged into stuff. Mouse, keyboard, headset, desk light, webcam, mic, printer, dongle for Xbox controller

[@daeken]

Me: Weird, Linus is wearing the same shirt I am! Me: ..... Me: it's an LTT shirt and I'm dumb.

[@IanH4510]

So how do you identify a port with its own controller? Is it labelled, in the manual, or is it just try it and experiment?

[@Alzorath]

weirdly, due to my use case, I am sadly one of the people who do use a lot of USB ports due to hotkey setups (to the point of needing external hubs) - though I usually maintain a rule of only having one data-hog per motherboard controller - which is easy enough to do with only 2 external drives being used at any given time.

[@StevieRayLou]

I went shopping for usb-a-to-c cables and discovered most are only capable of 2.0 speed transfers. You'll pay much more for cables that support high speed.

[@BradTech.]

2:19 My HP shows three 'USB 3.1 eXtensible Host Controller 1.10's in device manager, when it only has just three USB ports all together! 🧐

[@pauldrice1996]

If you were to get a type c add in card, how many ports would it take to saturate a full gen5x16 pcie?

[@DoubleWW]

ok cool, but how do i know which port connects to which controller?

[@LguisLo]

It would be cool if manufactures listed the ports that the controllers are in charge of. Also, the issue of balancing ports would be more common on notebooks, wouldn't it? I've tried connecting a zenscreen to one port, an external sound card to another and a USB dongle for keyboard and mouse. The result is teary image, sound glitches and choppy reactions on both mouse and keyboard. It may be overload, but it seems everything is going through a single controller