Are Warhammer Tournaments Good For Business??

[@Benjam311]

J had me at "this coffee sucks" :D

[@montroyalbynight8107]

Where's the De mello cups? They're what's hot in the 6 right now.

[@trippsclips903]

You guys hit the nail on the head when you mentioned building rapport with customers. A lot of people today don't have what my wife calls a "third place," somewhere that isn't work or home that is inviting or sociable. A game shop is a great place to meet people, socialize, get inspiration, and, of course, alleviate that pressure building in your wallet. I think it's great you guys extend that sort of hand to the community.

[@itsallfunandgames723]

I'm imagining Jay standing in front a chalkboard that says: "Always Be Chasing customers out of my store"

[@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905]

Lol

[@Stonehorn]

McD’s coffee is far better than Tim’s, and McD’s coffee is just ok. I enjoy tournaments. It lets me get 3-5 games in a weekend and meet new players. I always spend money at the store if it’s being hosted at a store, and concessions if it’s not in a store. I enjoy supporting the game. I’ve been to 3 old world GT’s, two RTT’s for TOW, and an AOS GT.

[@bradp6452]

I think the league concept is better for stores. As it has stuff for both new players and veterans in addition to just more casual visits to the store.

[@RR-oj6co]

Interesting video. My guess would be that it’s not whether or not tournaments are good for business, but rather how does a tournament build the community at the store. In a previous video you have said that customers at your store pay full price because of the “intangibles” you guys provide, such as paint advice or table space. Therefore, ask yourselves what does a tournament give to the customers in your store? Opportunity to play new/different players without having to travel? Opportunities win a prize? Does it develop the community at your store? Maybe tournaments don’t do that because of the “tournament” attitude. One theme that comes across in your videos is “does this action turn into an immediate sale.” Glad you added the last 2-3 minutes to discuss how that’s not the way it is when you walk into the store.

[@samwiserando]

My local hobby shop in sydney sells tournament tickets as store credit for the winners so the money stays in the shop. They also run a lot of game days for different systems each month with paid door prizes.

[@Khyriz.1]

So glad you brought up leagues. I play in one of their store leagues and it’s amazing. Builds community, great way to get games in, is a good ‘target’ to motivate hobbying up new armies and lists. And it caters more towards the non tournament player, which is the vast majority of people in the hobby as far as my experience goes.

[@dalelyman4960]

I enjoyed going to tournaments to see others who enjoyed the hobby as much as I did. Wasn't about the wins but did make purchases to add to an existing army; but also collected new armies because of the gameplay, to this day.

[@BjornKuma]

If you're not going boutique, Dunkin' Donuts coffee is the best.

[@MustContainMinis]

I remember your big events. That’s how I first met you. It was at a venue you rented and I went to play Frostgrave there. I remember all your tables looked great. As for what I bought there, it was the ticket price and a bunch of raffle tickets. I enjoyed that day and always wondered how the events panned out for people running them. Thanks for making this video. I haven’t played in a tournament for a long time. There was a time that I travelled a lot to play Flames of War in tournaments and I have been to a few Bolt Action Tournaments, but nothing recently. At those tournaments I would always buy snacks and drinks from the host and would make larger purchases if I happened to win at a store that gave out vouchers as prizes. I would always spend more than the voucher if I won, but I didn’t always win. 😂

[@stuntman083]

I'm not eating the garbage at the store. Players usually get pizzas and subs

[@Mr_Waffle.]

Thank you for sharing the store point of view, it's very interesting but hard to gauge from the customer's side. I've never played a game as I work on the weekends and weeknights, and don't know anyone who plays anyway lol. I buy and paint only. I would love to find out the hard data on paint only vs casual vs hardcore gamers one day (maybe you could do a youtube poll?)

[@andymeechan3924]

Tournaments and events are good for: Community building - either by attending, or by proxy [if someone is following that scene]. Retention - that's the big one. 'Build it and they will come' kinda thing. Sometimes a tournament is simply an excuse to play 3 games in a day. This can be as many that a player manages in the rest of the year.

[@jordancameron3584]

Events are important goals and targets for hobbyists, that allow stores and clubs to run activities leading up to them. And activities is where you make the money - test games, paint nights, etc lead to tweaks and changes and other purchase opportunities. Successful activities make an event better, and lead to future events (like tournaments) having success.

[@Techpriest]

The way I always explain events and game space is that it's a marketing budget. Sure, you can make money off of events, but generally the game space is more incentive for people to buy items even if they don't actually use the space.

[@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905]

True

[@montroyalbynight8107]

Tournaments in 28mm scale or bigger are pretty impractical. People think ok I can get around transporting the minis (it's hard) but they don't think about terrain. All the smoothest tourney experiences I've had, with nice terrain, were in smaller scales.

[@brenthartman502]

i may have to send a couple of Aussie mates to you guys if they all holiday there 😄👍next year. Always good value watching .. cheers

[@redsven7624]

I used to be part of a group running tournaments, we did run a neutral but made nothing on them. I think GW focuses on tournaments now, as 95% of the volume from social media, podcasts etc so perception of a game this driven why it. However I think GW had tournament players at 10% max of the customer basis not sure if that's changed The tight cycle I think is a real risk to GW, so many I know aren't buying the books they used to and a lot are after looking at alternative systems

[@redsven7624]

Risk to rules sales, not miniatures sales to clarify

[@VoidBornScum]

I think the two questions (do tourney players spend more, or make others spend more), needs another which is if those players would still be in the hobby really without the tourney scene. Or if they'd be off playing another competitive game like magic or computer games instead.

[@horusthewarmaster7]

Tournaments are no good for sales with hard core tournament goers except if there are significant meta changes. For the rest of us they are good for ideas for new armies, inspiration and often people who get flogged will either buy a new unit or two or and entirely new army. Thematic events and slow grow event leagues are far better for consistent sales after an event.

[@HacksawsHobbyBunker]

As a filthy casual I am aware of the tourney scene but pay it no mind. Especially since I use some GW models but none of the rules (except Mordheim in the near future). I do find it interesting the different sorts of players there are, and as someone else pointed out in the comments, some sizable fraction of the hardcore tourney jocks would likely be off playing - whatever else - if the GW tourney scene went away. I don't understand that aspect of the hobby....having the goal of "absolutely must win" every time at something rather inconsequential like playing with army mans seems like a signal of distress rather than a healthy mindset. Army mans are supposed to be fun and interactive, sharing a fun activity with friends or even potential friends. But thats just my filthy casual opinion. Cheers!

[@thomads3890]

the answer is: > If you have a venue which costs basically nothing > If you already have all the gamemats and boards and terrain > then you can make a "profit" on entrance fees > over years you can break even on the initial investment > usually tournaments do not immediately drive sales in any location they're held at in my experience > but the lead-up to tournaments, the community it fosters, has a value opportunistically

[@earnestwanderer2471]

Just not in a position to do more than afternoon/evening one off games about twice a week. Playing Kill Team and Warcry because it’s a whole lot easier to get a 1 to 2 hour game in than a 3+ hour game done after work. Would I go to a multi-day local tournament if I could? Maybe but probably not. Would I travel 500+ miles to a big tournament? No chance. I often wish that I lived in the UK because it seems like there’s a lot more small events, both playing games and just events that attract indie/small game designers.

[@sweetmanedu]

I always enjoy the different perspective you guys bring! Keep it up...

[@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905]

Thanks :)

[@alexandrebelinge8996]

Canada Jail lol :), french press or mocha ! Get a keurig machine and sell coffee in the store ! Fulfill all my addiction !

[@maxxon99]

I haven't played a game of 40K in ages but I still buy the models... I gave up buying codexes for good in 9th... they get outdated so fast to please the tournament crowd that there's just no point trying to keep up with the rules anymore.

[@JeffG-n8p]

I was wondering about your prospectives on how Yourtubers affect the hobby. And how it’s changed and grown over the years. Also the positive and negative of it as well. From your business side. Does you tube for Warhammer help you all or hurt ? Or confuse ? I feel at times it does all of these. Haha.

[@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905]

I believe we did a video about this a while ago

[@StorminWolf]

MtG is switching very much to being played social/casual (Commander) since the pandemic. It is funny GW is paying nowadays so much attention to Tournaments to me, I used to play tournaments in different games between 2005-2012 I do not miss it to be very honest... I do miss the big summercampaign events GW used to do... However if I look at tournament terrain it looks blad, 2 dimensional and boring, I actually think that is doing a disservice to Miniature Wargaming which lives of the immersion of having haptic 3 dimensional armies on haptic 3 dimensional Battlefields and not 5 l shaped mdf ruins on a mat.. at least in my humble opinion. But I was actually happy to see GW is doing big narrative events now as well, so there is hope :D. I will even go as far and predict we wills ee a huge switch towards narrative and campaign gaming in the Miniature Warga ming space in the next few years. Necromunda, Bloodbowl being indicators, LI and ToW as well, but just look how much the narrative fluff and the campaign books are selling now for AoS and 40k. Would like to see your take on that development btw :)

[@JeffG-n8p]

Very interesting. Thank you for the insight.

[@Jeff-ne1lh]

I dunno...the Tournament scene in the United States especially the Southern and Western United States are full of the Sports Jersey types that table you in one turn ( and if they can't they scream for the judge and accuse you of cheating) and then when they win say "Next" or some other smartassed comment...there just isn't any fun in that....Warhammer was originally meant to be a Beer and Pretzels game...the fact that GW has basically told us that the Tournament scene is the only Scene that matters...makes me want to play less Hypercompetitive games

[@RowdiesFan1]

Leagues and Campaigns over Tournaments. I like that tourney's exist, but you need on-ramps for new people to play a game without feeling tons of pressure to get in-game results just to enjoy it.

[@jarrettevans1353]

McDonald’s coffee is original Tim Hortons coffee when the American side bought Timmy’s they changed the beans to their own. The Canadian side of McDonalds went with the original supplier of beans to Tim’s. So drink your McDonald’s coffee knowing you are enjoying original Timmie’s lmao 🎉

[@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905]

I had heard that before, was never sure how true it was. Thanks for sharing

[@kausalkraken5951]

Question: What the display cabinet in the background from?

[@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905]

They were custom ordered from GW back in the day. Not sure you can get those exact models anymore

[@AZOom-u3w]

Did stores not get there pre-order request this Saturday ?

[@terrenord1222]

Well, I’ll have to not believe my lying eyes because the meta minis always seem sold out and the tournament players seem to drive sales in my LGS. This being said, I consider local league players to be tournament players because they’re still competitive.

[@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905]

A few sold out kits vs. the entire range of Warhammer 40k would be how I look at it. Thanks for the comment!

[@rahjar]

Would you say then that Games Workshop is extracting 'blood' from the tournament organizers, etc, who organize tournaments of their games. By leveraging their dominant position in the market? It certainly feels they derive a greater share of the profit, while investing the least(not paying anything to tournaments anymore, whereas they used to)?

[@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905]

I would say that much of 'good' social things that exist are done out of the goodness of people and their desire to see it happen, and this would extend well beyond Warhammer for sure. Corporations definately take advantage of this (GW is no different than say, a large Grocer) as these services fill in the gaps that the companies don't want to pay for. In a less cynical view, there is something special about people just making things that they want to see. I think a community run event can feel more honest and genuine than something a company is running.

[@MorganRoosenmaallen]

LGS owner in B.C. here. The big question that I want to ask that few outside our industry will care about is... "Has your accountant 'popped by' yet to have a talk about how the upcoming GST break is going to impact your sales?" :D

[@Unaidedfoot]

McDonald’s coffee is way way better!

[@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905]

Yea definately

[@genedean29]

the garbage time conversation about after 20 years, you just listen and assess to support...would you say that started because that was one of the key trainings of GW in the 2000s? I knew when I did my time at GW, they were like, are you listening and figuring out what the customer wants? Because I think maybe that's something GW did get right 20 years ago; Listen and give the customer what they want.

[@bruced648]

campaign play is far better than tournament play. GW specifically caters to tournament play, and only the top tier tournament players. the quarterly data slate proves my point.

[@dominicmetzger3246]

I run about 3 warhammer tournaments a month. They should be considered “guaranteed sales” as I just give out store credit with 28-32 people showing up. However I’m a rather unique store that is designed as a warhammer destination

[@bryanvestal3923]

The fact that the average ticket price of a visit to the hobby shop is over 100 dollars just reinforces my believe, that it's way past time to vacate the hobby. Ridiculous.

[@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905]

I mean, most of our customers are only in once a month. They spend their budget (whatever that is) and they leave and do their hobby. 100 is an average, so many are over and many are under. It's pushed up by people buying airbrushes and big box purchases and pushed down by people buying a few paints.

[@WarpstoneHash]

Y'all forgot to shoutout us OLD WORLD PLAYERS we aren't sweaty tournament players SMH 😂😂

[@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905]

We are all a little sweaty...lol

[@dreadtrain2846]

I don't own a hobby business so I wouldn't know...

[@rcdemoral1982]

Man, Timmies coffee went to crap like a decade ago. McDonald's coffee is way better. Tim Horton's isn't even Canadian owned, hasn't been for a LONG time. I don't understand everyone's obsession with burnt coffee.

[@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905]

It has more to do with where you can walk to. But your right!

[@thesoothsayer9223]

In theory the benefit of a tournament is marketing not revenue. If customers see people using products having fun in a community it encourages sales (mileage may vary depending on how well those players represent themselves)

[@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905]

I try and keep the gamers as far from the customers as possible 😉 Loud gaming is not conductive to a good sales environment. People need to feel comfortable looking around and able to have conversations about the products etc. Just our experience :)

[@MichaelJahhdogscribbleboy]

I agree. The game demo is what brought me into the hobby (many years ago) but I find that the amount of choice and to a smaller extent the price has pushed me out of the hobby (also my group fell apart a while back)...

[@MichaelJahhdogscribbleboy]

Oh and I agree about the Tim's versus McDonald's coffee comparison...