Are watch brands ripping you off?

[@willscottage]

I'm still convinced Dave is an alternate reality version of Agent Mulder who got into watches instead of the FBI

[@reezevlog]

Yeah…he’s doing The X-Watches

[@sage9743]

I want to believe.

[@itxofficial8281]

Omg, I thought I was the only one thinking this!! Makes me feel less of a weirdo, knowing other people are having the same crazy thoughts.... Happy new year! 😅🎆

[@Danomite99]

He does own the interstellar Hamilton watch

[@Rocky-y8f8q]

😂​@@reezevlog

[@ramspencer5492]

Yep. Many watch brands are ripping us off. Sometimes it really is mostly just the name.

[@thetruthhurts7500]

Nope. Nobody is forcing you to buy anything. If you are an adult with a functioning brain. You can make a choice. Class dismissed.

[@andromedagodit2492]

Indeed

[@younusimam-thesalamproject6340]

I think a really interesting comparision would be an affordable watch with a Christopher Ward and a luxury watch like Tudor. See what the difference between the three are at vastly different price brackets.

[@drzaius844]

Would be interesting. I think the OG Tudor BB36 was an amazing value at ~ $2,500 - it is luxurious for sure and feels (qualitatively) light years beyond anything I have sub $1,000, with the bracelet, finishing, dial and indices being way above, but also the perceived “heritage” which is really subjective but as emotional/irrational beings it’s a thing.

[@harrycee656]

Farer also.

[@jackiemoon_lms]

@@drzaius844couldn’t agree more

[@juniorjohnson5961]

Any higher end watches, longines & Rolex

[@williambireley2529]

Agree. CW build quality is impressive. The movement is the biggest difference off the top of my head.

[@williamhill7312]

Great video, you are speaking my language on watches over $1500, I really can't justify paying more for a watch than a used car I bought in 2017, and it only had 65,000 miles on it. I mean I would not feel comfortable going out with that much money on my wrist, I mean I have seen criminals kill for $1000 worth of merchandise. I have never spent mote than $500 for any watch I own and I am pretty satisfied.

[@emu314159]

1000 bucks is hardly a high threshold. Go ride transit outside of a place where it's actually useful to normal people that have other options. You will hear people not so much bragging but establishing it as a personality point, almost by way of introduction, about how they beat someone down over some trivial slight. And these are not otherwise criminals, nor would they consider themselves such. Actual street criminals will kill you for not handing your wallet over fast enough.

[@lefroy1]

Now you need a Blancpain 50 fathoms to do a 3-way comparison.😉

[@Larry-gs8gb]

I think one thing you missed is marketing costs. Bands like Tissot and Hamilton, all the way up to Omega and Rolex spend tons of money on marketing,and this also factors into the price of the products they sell.

[@jackn4853]

Plus they pay their ( already rich) " ambassadors."

[@brantisonfire]

I spent $214 for a Tissot PR100 with the modified 2824 Powermatic 80. The watch is great, it’s a simple dress piece that I wear to work and to dinners and nights out with my wife. I am blown away that I was able to get the watch at that price. It’s a Swiss made from a storied brand.

[@frankdux5693]

The cheap Chinese knock offs don't need marketing because the likes of Rolex etc pay it for them.

[@AvgJoeWatchReviews]

@@frankdux5693bingo. 👍

[@dparis2172]

@@jackn4853Yes, that’s part of the marketing costs the op was referring to. You seem a little bitter.

[@Isahiyella]

I have the Spinnaker Fleuss and zero regrets. The build quality is great and it wears nicely on my wrist. I like Spinnaker a lot as a company, despite the China connection which I don't like. They do not take themselves too seriously, as in snobbery level, but their love of watches is obvious if you own one of them and they take pride in their workmanship in my opinion. I might even buy 5 Spinnakers instead of 1 Squale if I was faced with that choice.

[@wongpandai]

how your watch going now? is it still working? im in a junction between fleuss and seiko

[@Isahiyella]

@@wongpandai Its still running like a top. Its not a daily driver, I have quite a few watches, but it is in heavy rotation, as in I wear it once or twice a week. My daily driver was the Sinn Flieger, but I keep having issues with it. I can no longer set the time on it, the crown will only extend enough to set the date. Whatever is wrong with the Sinn will cost me at least what it would to buy a new watch from Spinnaker. Having said all of that, you have the lineage of the Seiko to consider and I must assume that the quality of the Seiko is better than the Spinnakers. But I do love the Fleuss.

[@gazzertrn]

@@Isahiyella Fluess is cool .

[@MementoMorituri]

Squale does make less expensive watches with the same quality and everything else that you mentioned. The Squale Montauk and 1545 originale are just two examples. both are sub $1k, even under $600. My first Swiss watch was a Squale 20 Atmos Submariner homage which was also around $600. To this day it's still the best watch I own.

[@_Alfa.Bravo_]

... is the company based in Italy ?

[@MementoMorituri]

It's based in Switzerland but owned and run by an Italian family which were friends of Charles Von Buren, the founder. So it wouldn't be wrong to call it an Italo-Swiss company.@@_Alfa.Bravo_

[@jpdemer5]

Another factor not mentioned here is the pricing strategy of the maker: what market are you selling the watch into? Spinnaker and a couple dozen other "affordable" brands are competing for the attention of people who are shopping for $200-$400 watches. Squale is in the next tier, roughly $500-$1,000 (not counting the special edition profiled here.) I get the impression that up to about $2,000 you get more watch for more money: better materials, components, and finishing, but rapidly diminishing returns above that. (Makers like IWC seem to tack on an extra $3,000 for the sole purpose of having an $8,000 watch.) Eventually, you get to the point where you're paying tens of thousands for beautifully decorated movements, at which point you're buying jewelry or art.

[@KabobHope]

Spinnaker is one of the better affordable brands. They have their own design language that is fairly consistent. I'm glad you reviewed them.

[@GabrielPicazo666]

I strongly suggest stay away from Spinnaker. Their quality control sucks!!! This 2023 I bought 2 watches from them: an automatic Cahill, and a Hull chrono. Both broken. The Cahill completely stopped, it didn't worked, the caliber was not running by winding the crown or the rotor. I returned it for warranty, but Spinnaker unilaterally confiscated my watch and gave me a partial refund (excluding shipping and taxes), strangely saying the watch was working properly but giving me no evidence. On my second purchase (Hull chrono), the chrono start pusher failed, but with the terrible experience of the first watch and the warranty, I decided not to return the watch and better try to fix it with a local watchmaker. Spinnaker's quality control sucks!!!

[@thepenultimateninja5797]

I have a watch with an NH35A movement in it, and it is by far the most accurate watch I own. It's almost like a quartz watch. I have worn it continuously (including when I'm asleep) since I bought it, and I go months between setting the time. I have other NH35A watches, and I know this level of accuracy is not typical for this movement. I must have just gotten exceptionally lucky with this particular example, but even so, they are generally really good movements.

[@dig494]

Yep. You got incredibly lucky! They are good movements though and can be regulated quite easily by DIY if not performing well. Or thrown away and replaced.

[@johnfitton3716]

Seiko ❤

[@MaewWatch]

Yeah you got lucky, my Seiko change the calibre since first day I bought since it's 14 minutes faster in 1 hour, not 14 seconds in a day

[@brantisonfire]

My Pagani Design BB58 homage runs at about +4-5 spd with an NH35. I’m sure that’s not common, but I’m very surprised by that and impressed, nonetheless.

[@thepenultimateninja5797]

@@brantisonfire I have one of those arriving tomorrow - how do you like yours?

[@ryantaylor3416]

Dave- I think this might be one of the best videos you’ve made. I’ve watched you since the beginning and I’m loving the content! Keep up the good work, mi amigo!

[@juniorjohnson5961]

I've been watching him since 2019 this is definitely a good one & great idea .

[@WChronicles7750]

A very good explanation on the differences between the watches and why they are priced so differently. I think you've done about as good of a job explaining it as anyone I have seen on KZbin try and do that. I have owned watches ranging from $100 to $1,800. IMO once you start getting into the $1,000 range you start to noticed a big difference compared with a $300 or $500 watch.

[@enmovimiento3766]

Awesome video Dave 👏🏼. But my wife killed the excitement she said “both can tell you time and that’s what matters “ 😂😂😂😂😂😂 Can’t watch this videos with her man.

[@daleyfamily2179]

Yeah well so does the microwave and the stove. what's her point. I cant put them on my wrist.

[@vladchan]

It's an open secret that the smaller Swiss brands do not have their components made in the Swiss Alps by harworking elves. They come from the same huge Chinese factories as the microbrands. Things like cases, dials, bracelets crystals are made in China these days unless proven otherwise beyond reasonable doubt.

[@Ninjamlm]

Then buy swiss vintage...

[@_taxman_]

That squale uses an eta (off the shelf) movement with a date complication so it has a ghost date. Couldn't even pick a correct movement for the watch.

[@bngr_bngr]

Actually, the Swatch group doesn’t sell ETA movements to brands they don’t own.

[@kevinh5349]

I recently purchased 2 Spinnaker watches and have been happy with both. One 'on sale' for $200 and one a mechaquartz for $235. Not sure I'd do business with them again though. At the website, there is no 'contact us' tab, or, rather, there is one, but it merely takes you to a FAQ site. No way to contact by phone, email, or chat. My understanding is they are located in Hong Kong. Anything go wrong with the order I'd be surprised if it could be fixed, either receiving, or warranty, or whatever.

[@bidipbo]

Two factors that should have been part of your metric (increasing it to six factors from four) the cost of labour and the percentage of MSRP devoted to marketing. In the case of the gold coronet, 30% of MSRP is marketing expense. Those two factors are more relevant than, for example reputation of brand and build quality, since those are subjective and also not a cause for increased price. A Chinese factory with the directive from the brand contracting their services for manufacturing, is able to produce a high level of build quality and still execute the brand's vision for less money, because of the cost of labour. Long story short, European brands are 100% ripping its consumers off and the Chinese are proving it. EDIT: Also, a TINY segment of Seiko movements are made in Japan. Don't just say it's made in Japan - not all BMWs or Mercedes Benz are made in Germany. TMI is the far and away leading builder of Seiko Inst. Inc. (SII) movements for the various brands that use them. And again, the cost of labour is largely the reason for Seiko purchasing TMI (HK-based, but Malaysia and beyond manufacturing).

[@haping1]

I see your point Dave, but check the Squale against a San Martin. I think the differences aren't that obvious anymore... A comparison between a basic watch and an Omega is maybe a better comparison to see the differences. It's clear where the money goes in... But if you wanna explain why a Rolex Submariar compared to an Omega Seamaster costs so much more, I wish you good luck. The movement of the Omega is in my opinion better, more beautiful than the Rolex... Thanks for the video.

[@KnoxNixon]

Don't be a fool, buy the watch you can afford and enjoy. The watch should only impress You, not others.

[@mbferrari308QV]

LOVE your summary - I am EXACTLY like you in how I am putting together my collection. I just don't want to worry about a watch. Can get a lot of really cool watches sub $500 range

[@violinmke]

I liked this. I can't figure out how Berny got me a titanium watch with a sweep 6 per second seiko movement sapphire and included shopping to my door for $78 Canadian to my door and still make money in the last ALiI sale. I especially appreciated your honest take on what watches you would buy yourself.

[@waris3732]

Wait, which one was that again?

[@jperryhal]

I kind of agree with you. My core collection of watches currently consists of a Rado, Hamilton, Certina, a couple of Tissots, several Citizen and several Seiko watches with an Oceanus and an Orient thrown in for good measure. ;-) The most expensive watch was actually the Casio ($550 for OCW-T200). It is noticeably better finished than all but the Hamilton and Rado. The Rado has no comparison because it is a DiaStar. All that being said, I am currently looking at getting a Longines Automatic of some type. It would be the first $1000 watch I own. Still not sure if wouldn't just want to get another two Hamiltons or a different Rado for that money. I am hesitant to spend that but if I did I would have no problem wearing it. It's a watch after all. I probably would not want to wear a watch over $5000 and I probably would not want to spend that on one. Maybe someday I could justify spending $3000 on a used Omega. You can see that most of the watches I consider are in the Swatch Group. I will say that the Swatch Group seems to offer the best "value" in watches today if that's something you can actually measure at all.

[@gelderlandproduction]

This was a FANTASTIC video! VERY WELL DONE!

[@Bob_In_Thailand]

The difference in cost between affordable and more expensive watches has a lot of factors. Brands like Spinnaker do not manufacture watches nor make their own parts but they design and assemble watches inhouse in which they source all their parts from third-party vendors from dials to hand cases and movements, which is why they share similar design queues with other brands selling around the same price. Not that the more expensive brands like Omega make everything in-house they don't but instead, they outsource their designs.

[@TOURMANBOB]

Thank you for a clear explanation of the question I have wondered about since I started my small collection of watches. I still feel that marketing BS adds far too much to the end user cost, but I can appreciate why companies do this (to maximize profits). However, I still wonder why people fall for this and spend their money on watches in the multi thousands of dollar range when cheaper watches are for all intents and purposes just as good. It would probably take a phycologist to explain this trait in human nature that causes people to overbuy a product.....

[@daleyfamily2179]

Yeah wonder why people want nice houses over crappy ones or nice cars over crappy ones, or be towns over lesser ones. Come on bruh, seriously?

[@TOURMANBOB]

@@daleyfamily2179 Not even a remotely close or accurate comparison ! Nice houses cost much more to build with more space and often more amenities and with larger associated property. Costs go up significantly for labour and materials and the property itself. Watches all look and function the same and nothing internally makes them worth the extreme and foolish prices that people are willing to pay for name alone. Do you really think a $38,000 Rolex is materially better than the average watch put out by Seiko, Citizen and other name brands. I don't think so !!!

[@Ollies_takes]

I appreciate your help with picturing what is becoming a spending habit. I think I started by trying to find the Squale, but can’t stop collecting the Spinnaker.

[@colinw7496]

Really enjoyed the photography in this video. The slow motion comparing the beat rates really showed the difference that is difficult for me to perceive at real time. Your view on watch value/ costs was well stated and lines up well with my view too. Thanks.

[@JasonTheWatchGuy]

Really interesting question. I do think the Squale is worth it, love Squale! I guess this really comes down to the old idea that they're worth what people will pay for them.

[@mikegreig3338]

I think the worry of getting the Spinnaker serviced is spurious at best, it’s a £50 Seiko movement that you can either get serviced anywhere or just replace it with a new one….

[@timeiseverything4]

always cheaper to replace. Watchmakers charge too much to overhaul.

[@sergiecoll5142]

Probably the case dies earlier than seiko movement

[@bngr_bngr]

Spinnaker has some of diver for sale at $179. They must be paying $20 for those Seiko movements.

[@rbsafe]

I think the €580 Baltic Aquascaphe matches up to the Squale, with caveats: the Baltic has a factory regulated Miyota 9039 movement, is on a tropic rubber strap, and the company is less well known. But as an owner I can verify the design and build quality are excellent, and the people there are great to work with. Highly recommended.

[@rbsafe]

@MultiBamBamBamBam I never noticed. I just inspected and measured all my 39-40mm watches. They all swoop about the same, including the Baltic, and all lug tips are slightly above the plane of the caseback. So all have gaps. On my wrist size, 7 1/4, and shape, none of them contour perfectly. I might need a 36mm for that. I'm fine with how they are..

[@Watchgang123]

Great video! It’s a very relevant topic too among watch enthusiasts that are moving away from luxury Swiss brands and looking at micro brands. The short answer is YES. Luxury is a premium - so one would definitely overpay. But the question is to what extent do we overpay? Is it reasonable or not? And what exactly are we paying for? I think we need to divide this topic into high-end luxury and entry-level luxury. For high complication watches using precious materials and having certifications etc, these all cost the manufacturer money. But for simple three hand steel sports watches, most brands are indeed a rip off. That’s why micro brands have become popular, as watch enthusiasts are catching on very quickly in terms of value. It doesn’t actually cost much to produce these watches, as many Chinese factories demonstrate. In fact, many so-called Swiss made brands source parts and components from Chinese factories. I think models like the Tissot PRX has really made people think why they are overpaying when you can get such a great watch for a low price. If we look at watches from a sum of the parts, we are clearly overpaying. But many don’t look at purchases this way and are happy to pay a premium for the brand cache, design and heritage etc.

[@erikknudsen2971]

Regarding the 'Swiss Made' label...this is rather misleading. To be called 'Swiss Made,' this means that the movement is Swiss and that 60% of the production cost is Swiss based. The watch is supposed to be put together and inspected in Switzerland. This is rather vague because the case, hands, bracelet, etc. may not be made in Switzerland, or even in Europe. Thus, for a watch running $1000, it is possible that numerous components come from Asia. Basically there is an almost total lack of transparency. In fact, only one 'mid-tier' brand comes to mind that actually tries to get as many parts from Switzerland as possible (O&W). Most brands do not disclose where the parts come from. In my opinion, when it comes to 'fit and finish' (which is another rather vague and subjective phrase), it is hard to comment on the quality of finishing. One likely needs to handle numerous watches at all price points to tell a difference, and in some cases a high degree of magnification is needed to even see the fine features that require a high degree of precision. I think it is fair to say that manufacturing has progressed tremendously over the last few years. The production facilities in Asia can produce high quality parts at a low cost.

[@LabofmusicRecords]

it's very simple. You can see and feel the difference. I own 2 spinakers for 400.- each and I do not wearing it. I was wondering ans so I bought it, but the quality is crap for 400.- Bou a Tissot, Certina or a Seiko, you'll get much more for the money.

[@thomasp.4649]

Spinnaker belongs to the Dartmouth Brands Ltd., and the watches are produced in China/Hong Kong, it is not a Microbrand. Squale is a Swiss/Italian Brand with heritage . You pay for the better movement, heritage and better finish .

[@KonstantinosDouros]

Amazing video!! Very good job!! I think that for people with normal budget a 800-1000$ watch is packed with all the 4 aspects you mentioned! But this Squale stole my heart!

[@barrettwbenton]

Excellent comparison video, Dave. I do think things get a bit complicated when comparing either of these watches with offerings from a larger and more vertically-oriented brand such as Seiko (and, for the sake of argument, Rolex). You did mention how watches with less-expensive movements may end up having their movements replaced wholesale rather than repaired/CLA'd when brought in for service. This might depend on where the watch is brought in for service: obviously, seiko themselves likely won't service a watch from a microbrand even if it happens to have come with a Seiko NH-series movement, but with any of my Seikos (spanning some 45 years of manufacture), I can send any of these off to the Mothership, and they can all be serviced. To Wit: my second-oldest Seiko, a 6139 "blue eye" chronograph, manufactured in 1977, was brought in-person to Seiko's HQ (yes, I'm conveniently close to them here in New Jersey); within a month, it was shipped back to me, serviced and running just terrific. which is just one reason why all but two watches in my modest collection are Seikos.

[@kaunas888]

Any competent independent watchmaker can service a NH series movement.

[@iFyvie]

Great video Dave. Quite a marvelous comparison - same style watch but coming at the 'dive watch' from very different directions. I would split the difference and buy a Certina. 😜

[@KabobHope]

I love my Certina DS-4 (non-Powermatic). I love the smoother sweep. Next stop: Seiko Spring Drive.

[@camarocarl7130]

Fantastic divers from Certina with Powermatic 80.

[@felixbillington6151]

The spinnaker hasn’t actually been sized up that much. The spinnaker isn’t definitely based on the blancpain fifty fathoms. The original watch was 42mm. Huge for the time! Love the style of both these watches!

[@jpinckster]

¹😅

[@RexApplegate]

Similarly my bulova mil ships by my calipers is about 41.5. I suspect the originals were big for the same reason they had about enough radiation to take an x-ray; dive computers didn't exist in the 50's and you had to be able to see them if you wanted to live.

[@megasoid]

Some of what may separate any two watches outside of unbridled greed and the innards is good old fashioned overhead. A small microbrand operating out of a garage is not the same as a multinational concern that's been around for a million years. Funny to see this video today as the watch I'm wearing has sapphire crystal front and back, 200 meters of water resistance, screw down crown with double gaskets and an NH35 movement. This piece cost me $103.00 brand new. I have more expensive name brand watches with lesser specs. Some days I'm seriously confused.

[@72vespa]

another good review and I too cannot justify spending $1500 on one watch. I would rather spend that kind of money on several watches. While Spinnaker may not be a "forever" brand, that should not affect it's serviceable as any watch tech can simply replace the Seiko movement down the road .....

[@RandallSlick]

So my takeaway from this is that an honest RRP for the Spinnaker would be $150, and for the Squale, say $450. And yes, watch brands are ripping us off, because at the end of the day we apes do love our shiny jewellery.

[@mikeg6008]

I picked up my Squale 1521 a few years ago on a Black Friday for sale at LIW for $499. While it is worth more today and looks amazing, I would never pay $1k for it.

[@hattyfarbuckle]

I bought a Spinnaker in the sale [$150ish] a few years ago with a "distressed" finish - I really liked the distressed finish, strap was OK but found I hadn't paid enough attention to the dial, which I didn't get on with which is on me not Spinnaker so I flipped it. Like most diver owners the depth is irrelevant if they are 100m and thats just reassurance to me as they are all "desk divers" and the most water they see is rain.

[@henryperez606]

You’re exactly right about the depth rating. In fact, the Squale has double the depth rating and a leather strap.

[@sergeyusik9934]

Usually, the price difference is attributed to brand recognition, customer support, and hassle-free warranty. There is no doubt that producing mechanical watches in Switzerland requires more resources, effort, and investment, especially considering that labor costs are higher.

[@camarocarl7130]

Compared to a chinese sweat shop?

[@eguaio]

So, basically we are paying for a lot of stuffs that are not really reflected in the watch itself: branding and swiss employees high living standards. I'll pass 😂

[@sergeyusik9934]

@@eguaio ... or people in China work for 1-2$ a day and western people kinda like to buy cheap without any clue of a production backstage.

[@camarocarl7130]

@@eguaio Yet you have no problem supporting chinese sweat shops.

[@RockyRepairs]

@@eguaioif you support child labor and poor working conditions just say it. Better yet, ask your boss to lower your pay, don’t be greedy, ask for no more health/dental/eye benefits and pension. So that way cost of labor is cheaper

[@elone3997]

Nice video - I think you summed it up perfectly at the end. I think it's a classic case of diminishing returns. You more you throw at something, the less and less you get back in return. Like for example, once you hit 100m WR your totally covered against water - 99.999% of people will never go diving in these watches (you'd just use a dive computer) but it's still nice to know that the skill and expertise of the 300m WR is now on your wrist 😁

[@WatchMatt]

Swiss made on the dial doesn't mean the watch was manufactured in Switzerland.

[@jamesmustin7289]

I collect vintage Omegas . I have two exception. One is the unique green Seiko Alpinist. I imported it from Japan. It cost me $650.00. The second exception is my 37 mm two toned Blue Seiko quartz movement Pro Diver. It cost me $49.00. It keeps accurate time. It is stainless steel water resistant to two feet. It look nice and have been complimented on it. I may buy a Invicta 1963. It is a classical look diver copy of a Rolex. I will wait until Christmas to make a decision . It is selling for around $100. If Invicta can sell watches for a low price with a Seiko movement yes watch companies are taking advantage. In the past I have owned a Rolex Submariner.

[@tonicrpo377]

According to your upload; it was easy to see that there's NO ripping off for the Squale higher price, since Squale offered way more quality, Turned out that Spinnaker was not up to a fair comparison being that it's just "OK". Great general information. Thank you.

[@Patrick-pm1sn]

Got a Squale 1521 which is my most worn watch of my collection. 1521 case is - for my wrist - the best. Period. But the bezel action of my 1521 is pretty terrible. It is the old 60 click bezel (upgrade to 120 click bezel according to Squale not possible) and is has a ton of backplay. Reminds me a little bit of a Alfa Romeo: Love it for design and driving, kind of hate it some subquality parts.

[@bremertoerien6987]

In the watch community perhaps, Squale is a known brand but, ask any non watch guy and you will search long and hard to find anyone that knows the brand exists. Squale may be better quality than Spinnaker but, there are some corners cut. For me it's not worth the price just because it has a slightly better movement. I say slightly just because price and quality obviously isn't directly related.

[@ruby055]

It's alot of it is marketing and cost of Labor because the difference isn't $1200. Great vid.

[@BartMan59]

Dave, a PERFECT example of your video above but on a higher end of watches was shown by the Time Tellwr comparing the very pricey IWC Ingenuer and the Baum & Mercier Rivera - both fm the Richmoint Grp. Essentially both use the same ETA base/design movement and are priced $10K apart,

[@nonamename638]

Thanks for the interesting comparison of the two watches. I happen to have had a Spinnaker Spence for three years and a Squale 60 atmos for a month. I also have a Blancpain homage made by Chinese Reef Tiger and the quality is very good and the lume better than in the Spinnaker. Obviously the Squale quality is the best, although on my hand the bracelet clasp does not line up perfectly. Nevertheless, it's a beautiful watch, probably the prettiest in my collection (the blue version with a white and blue bezel).

[@kb9oak749]

I aspire to owning a Squale, but can't stop buying affordables to save up for one.

[@thetruthhurts7500]

Squale is a cheap entry watch. Hate to break the news to you.

[@willjr2520]

I have seen used Squale and Glycine prices just as low as a brand new microbrands with a Miyota or Seiko movement. I really like the Squale 1521 and Glycine 39 combat sub.

[@cedarcanoe]

Dave, this must have been the first time a video of yours sounded like a paid marketing ad for Squale (which is s revived brand and has no connection to the OG Squale brand other than financial investment).

[@TheNinjaPicker]

This was very interesting. I always thought the Spinnaker was a great looking watch and it is. Shown side by side the Squale is far superior imho. One thing that bothers me is for example Bertucci and their pricing. I own a $75 watch and see ads for a $250 Bertucci that has the same movement, specs with a little different colorway. Many brands do the same kind of thing. I dont like that at all.

[@CADAVREFILMS]

Trust me Spinnaker Bradner is mesmerizing with its many light refractions around its bezel.

[@racamon]

I wholeheartedly agree on every single point you made, Dave. I mean, I'd love that Squale, it looks amazing... but realist in me just cannot justify spending that amount of money for a watch.

[@gwobcke]

Nice video. Love my Super Squale. Yes, prices are going crazy. I think as long as you don't go over budget, get the best watch you want and can justify/afford and don't listen to social media/others - pick the watch you want.

[@fongtan]

both tell time, if i live 300m underwater all the time. i would definitely pay for the 300M WR.

[@andromedagodit2492]

Buy the Spinnaker n still have money left for other watches. Nuff said.

[@wilsarne1253]

Don't agree with the watch company not being around and you can't service the watch. Spinnaker has an NH35 that anyone can pretty much service these days. Have had both, I kept the Spinnaker. Is the Squale build worth 5x more? Not even close.

[@bngr_bngr]

The Spinnaker is about $500, the Squale about $1k. That’s about twice as much. Are you going to pay someone $300 to service a $50 movement?

[@zivkovicable]

The law of diminishing returns applies to most luxury items....A $30 bottle of wine is usualy going to taste noticeably better than $7 bottle. When it comes to the difference between a $300 & a $!000 wine, it gets harder to differentiate. Then comes down to the history of the region or particular grower. I don't think my palate is sophisticated enough to tell the difference at that level though.

[@rumcajs009]

100%

[@stevenmccarthy112]

I have several watches with the ETA2024 movement. I would only pay about 700 for that Squale with it's painted indexes.

[@thetattedpharmacist3215]

The thing people don’t consider is that yeah, ok, maybe these small brands won’t be around in 10 years time… so what? Their warranty is typically 2 years, and they use such common movements, it renders the fact they may not be around in 10 years irrelevant. If your Squale breaks in 10 years, you won’t send it to Squale under warranty, you’d send it to a watchmaker. Same with the smaller brands except instead of servicing it, they’d probably just replace the movement anyway 🤷‍♂️

[@jerrywilderman1569]

I own two Spinnaker's, both are high quality, accurate, and good looking.

[@mathewazzopard8100]

Actually the Squale with the ETA is better, but for one reason only, the nh35 is a low end movement used by Seiko for their $70 watches. If the Spinnaker was powered by a miyota 9 series, a 9015 say, I opt for the Spinnaker without any hesitation. The ETA if manually winded daily will have serious issues. The miyota nothing at all. As for the retail of this Squale, imo $1k would have been the max......

[@wadsworth2351]

Overall better componentry, better movements, higher brand pedigree therefore more recognition - these are just some determining factors that spring to mind.

[@emu314159]

Outside of watch people, once you get away from the Look at Me! lines of Rolex or maybe Omega, most people are going to have to squint to know what's on your wrist, and if it's not something obvious, they will not care. Get something you like that matches your aesthetic. Having said that, just got out of surgery yesterday, and my doc (who is excellent) was wearing a watch on a translucent sky blue rubber band, and looking closely I finally made out it was a stealth Rolex. So, all of the Rolex good stuff, without the flash. I'd hire this guy instantly for any of the things you'd be considering someone like that for.

[@johndabrowski5992]

Dave, one of your best videos! Good insight!

[@bradleypariah]

Jersey Mike's and Subway both sell sandwiches. They both offer meat, cheese, vegetables, and sauce dressings on bread. The bread at both businesses is made out of flour, eggs, salt, sugar, water, and yeast. Considering you can get a footlong turkey sub with the exact same ingredients at either location, is it worth paying more money to eat at one place versus the other? Arguable. Will they both make you feel full? Yes. Will they taste the same? Likely not. If all you want is to feel full, no one can argue that you don't have a right to spend less. If you want to spend more for higher quality, for whatever reason, you deserve to have that too.

[@karlsenula9495]

The Squale is obviously better - but with a price to match. The Spinnaker would have been a no brainer at this price with a bracelet but on a leather strap for around $300 with an NH35 makes you want to look around first to see what is out there first (i.e. Seestern, San Martin, Cronos, Baltany etc.).

[@emu314159]

I like the microbrand Oceanica, they use that movement and make divers, the latest one with triple layers c3 superluminova. The backs of their more recent models have engravings of the animal the watch is named for.

[@trooper427ss]

I love the intro 🎶. Sounds like The Midnight. I have the white version of the Squale. Great video 👍

[@AvgJoeWatchReviews]

Good video Dave. Well done!

[@Shri_V]

Where can I find your video/review on that Hamilton Cooper @ 04:23? I tried searching but didn't see anything on that watch.

[@bronco1199]

Great production Dave. Audio and video on point.

[@ralphus555]

Great vid. Totally agree with your value assessment.

[@herewegoagain...]

The problem is that the differences you mentioned, as well as several others, really are not minor, and very much potentially worth the cost, particularly for people with smaller wrists. Let's look at one of the few divers that fits me well: a late 2000's Seamaster 300m. Retail, I believe it was $4400 new, but even used, it costs over $3000 today. A tudor BB58 and Rolex Sub would also work, but they are far more money. Would you ever pay that much money for just one watch? YOU probably wouldn't, but if you want a watch with those specs, you absolutely will have to pay 4 figures. So, everyone in the comments, let's paly along: Find me a sub $500 watch with the following specs: - A 39mm - 41mm automatic Blue Diver - The dial has to have applied indeces with excellent lume. - The dial itself must have some design texture beyond just an enamel gloss or flat dial - The bracelet must have solid links, solid endlinks, and a fully milled clasp - Crystal must be double domed sapphire with AR - The case thickness (not including crystal) must be less than 12mm - The watch must have a Water Resistance of at least 200m - The movement must have a reliably advertised deviation in the single-digit second range. (I got lucky with a Miyota 9015 doesn't count) - And the final kicker: the design MUST be unique. No clomages. Now, here's the thing, everything in that list is really not an absurd, high society, meaningless ask. I am not asking for any unique trick escapements, or an in house movement. All I am asking for is a unique (at least originally), quality, durable, and accurate, medium sized, thin diver (so it won't look like a hockey puck on my wrist) that I can actually swim, snorkel, and potentially dive with. This is not exactly a luxury ask, yet I defy you to find anything that satisfies all that criteria for less than a grand. Longines Hydroconquest is probably the closest, cheapest one, clocking in as over $1300 retail. In the sub $500 range, all other more important factors checked, you are looking at a 30 second deviation, in a watch that is probably at least 14mm thick, which looks like a tank on smaller wrists. Fact is, if you have smaller wrists, and want a thin, capable automatic diver anywhere near COSC timing standards, you are in the four figure club. Turns out, making that is pretty difficult, and expensive.

[@kaunas888]

My Invicta ProDiver watches with the Nh35 are within 2-3 seconds a day out of the box and they cost less than $100. Many AliExpress models meet your requirements for less than $200.

[@herewegoagain...]

@@kaunas888 No, they don't, and if you read my requirements, you would understand that. Your ProDiver/AliExpress examples literally fail the last two requirements: 1. "reliably ADVERTISED deviation in the single-digit second range. (I got lucky with a Miyota 9015 doesn't count)." The ProDiver, along with EVERY OTHER NH35 does NOT advertise a single digit variance because it cannot reliably make that claim. The fact that YOURS specifically does is irrelevant, as it is the very definition of anecdote, and not something most people can reliably expect out of an NH35. The NH35 simply is not designed, nor built to that spec, and suggesting that other buyers will have a watch that meets COSC standards just because yours does is irrational, misleading, and terrible advice. 2. This is the one that really galls me: I specifically said "the design MUST be unique. No clomages." That means, either you couldn't be bothered to actually read said list before responding, or you simply didn't care that the ProDriver/AliExpress watches didn't meet the criteria. In the latter case, it means you either decided to proclaim they did anyway, or you just decided some of my list was of no consequence, and ignored those points. I don't know which it is, and frankly, I don't care. My intention was to point out WHY people are willing to spend four figures on a watch, and explain what their criteria was, opening the floor for discussion, had I missed something. Now, if you don't agree with that criteria, and think it is too restrictive, than that is certainly a conversation to have. But that isn't what you did. Instead, you simply ignored what I wrote, suggested I was wrong, and boldly proclaimed that there are several watches that meet the criteria, proceeding to then cite watches that clearly do not meet the criteria. ProTip: If you want to have a meaningful discussion, I recommend not simply ignore things said/written that you do not like or agree with. If you do, and simply continue the conversation as if those things weren't even said, it just sort of stops the conversation, as it makes everything you say totally meaningless. I understand gaslighting seems to be really in right now, but I promise you, it does not lead to effective communitcaiton.

[@CanadianEhHole]

@@herewegoagain... I'm surprised the shape of the lugs wasn't part of that list (not even mentioning the lug to lug). Pretty important for small wrists that the lugs aren't just straight and actually go down with the wrist. The issue I have, and I see many others have, is that we tend to buy multiples instead of just sticking to max 1 for each style and type. You're talking about a far better consumer behavior which is to buy the key ones that you not only want but that check every box on a list of needs. Too many watches that look good but are 14mm thickness and look like tuna cans from the side profile. Too many that focus on limiting costs as much as possible instead of providing that tiny bit of extra -- whether that be sapphire crystal over mineral or extra micro-adjusts on the clasp. How far do you take the "design MUST be unique?" Obviously clones and most homages are basically just design ripoffs but at the same time, there are only so many ways to design dials, bezels, cases, indices, chapter rings, etc. Like a very custom made design like Mr Jones watches will always be unique but most watches don't go for that hipster-style so there's quite a limit, especially when dress-style watches are not about crazy or very unique designs. I think playing around with color palettes is where watches can find good uniqueness beyond having to reinvent watch designs. Don't need to just make black, blue, white, dark red, and maybe tiffany blue and that's it. What do you think?

[@mikekane9213]

the intro... gets me every time. Love it!

[@motouno3778]

Just because it says Swiss Made dosen't mean the entire watch is Swiss made ! It only has to be 55% Swiss made & assembled to make this claim ! So there are alot of so called Swiss Made watches that have the case & case back - crystal & bracelet made in ....... china . They drop in their Swiss Made movement & do the final assembly & as per Swiss law they can call it Swiss Made ! Why pay the premium 🤔😕

[@oldestries]

That negative display casio tho.

[@mikefox3939]

Another watch similar to these two is the Baltic Auquascaphe at around $675

[@dorbei]

Final verdict: both watches are vastly overpriced. You should do a video pitting the Duro against the Yachtmaster. Now THAT would generate some clicks!

[@JusttheWatch]

Someone just needs to give me a Yacht master and I'll be all over it.

[@kylerock4227]

I really like the domed BEZEL on the spinnaker. The domed crystal on the squale is nice but im a big fan of domed bezels specifically

[@FurkanCemTurfanda]

I have the Fleuss, the bezel is awesome. I recommend the watch.

[@jaysterling26]

Most millionaires don't spend over US$2000 on a watch; actually far less - one famous one wears a Duro. So wearing a costly timepiece is a sign of status that one probably isn't that wealthy ( I know a Rolex owner who has more debt than me)?

[@artswri]

Great video, excellent commentary on the tradeoffs. Picking a 'best' watch for someone (me, for example) is quirky and best can be so ephemeral! Thanks for another enjoyable jaunt!

[@garytru563]

Excellent review! Thank you.

[@NorthenSoul]

Another great video Dave always looking forward to your opinions and honesty

[@kart182]

I love comparisons like these

[@broadsword6650]

I would choose the Spinaker all day long. The size relationship between dial and bezel looks to be in better proportion, it has a date complication, and I prefer the dial background and the typeface. But that's just me. Brand names mean little to me - and there as much chance of a well established brand going out of business as one that's been around for only a decade or so. Past performance is no guarantee of future returns, so don't rely 100% on any brand being around in the future. I certainly don't see Squale as a premium brand. Outside of watch nuts, it's unknown ... and just as a word "Squale" sounds rather ridiculous and comical. "Spinaker" has more romantic connotations.

[@BeeRumblin13]

In 2023 all wristwatches are ripoffs. We really don't need them but we still want them. Most microbrands use the same cheap Seiko movements. And it's pretty much the color of the dail or markings that sell the watch. The better luxury brands may use better movements but they all do the same thing.. tell time. Unless you are a somebody or have play money anything over 500 dollars is a waste of money now. History of abrand doesn't matter . That is just marketing. Yea i would love a Rolex Explorer but it does the same thing as my Seiko Turtle or my Island Watch pilot type A.

[@garybarros2891]

I'm into vintage divers , after seeing this, purchased a Fluess, crazy about having a aka 50 Fathoms !! now looking for a cushion case aka Panaria ,Spinnaker Hull goes to the top of the list .

[@kobusvanrensburg4092]

I own the Fleuss and a similar model Squale Sub39 GMT. The case finishes are pretty much the same, and ditto for movement accuracy.

[@GabrielPicazo666]

I strongly suggest stay away from Spinnaker. Their quality control sucks!!! This 2023 I bought 2 watches from them: an automatic Cahill, and a Hull chrono. Both broken. The Cahill completely stopped, it didn't worked, the caliber was not running by winding the crown or the rotor. I returned it for warranty, but Spinnaker unilaterally confiscated my watch and gave me a partial refund (excluding shipping and taxes), strangely saying the watch was working properly but giving me no evidence. On my second purchase (Hull chrono), the chrono start pusher failed, but with the terrible experience of the first watch and the warranty, I decided not to return the watch and better try to fix it with a local watchmaker. Spinnaker's quality control sucks!!!

[@Roddy1965]

If a watch is going to be used for actual diving, then I would hazard a good guess that a high polish case will be less prone to fouling, and easier to clean than non-polished/brushed. Seawater is *harsh* on metals.

[@joaquinisaiahng621]

Love my oxblood red fleuss. It's a great everyday watch with a brilliant dial that I don't mind scratching.

[@fredtafel]

Of course they are but that’s the case for every brand out there. Look at how much it costs to buy a pair of Jordans compared to a similar shoe from another brand. Worst of all is that most of the time you’re not paying for quality

[@lucitribal]

What about the Certina ds ph200m as a middle of the road option?

[@michaelhall6696]

great vid but i would question the comment about serviceability of the spinnaker in the future. any automatic watch using an ETA or seiko movement will be serviceable for a long time, it isn't an in house spinnaker movement, any watch servicing outfit should be able to service these for a long time given the volumes of movements out there, even if spinnaker themselves are not.

[@TheRealBrook1968]

Got the Spence with the 28k bph Miyota 9039(?), AR sapphire, presidential bracelet, 300M, ultra-slim 11mm, screw down crown, gorgeous in crimson, etc on sale at Spinnaker's website for $349 two months ago. My favorite diver because I feel that I got such an excellent watch for a steal. Technically China but I think HK made.

[@johncalberg1573]

okay, but is the ETA better than the NH in terms of build quality? I believe its more accurate, but is it really worth it....and what about Selitta here.

[@ChromeMan04]

ETA is obviously better

[@johncalberg1573]

@@ChromeMan04 based on what?

[@ChromeMan04]

@@johncalberg1573 based on accuracy, build quality and power reserve.