Are You A Vintage Sports Card Collector Or An Investor? "Off Topic" With

Another fun episode of "Off Topic" with my friend Darren of ‪@returntocollecting‬!! In this episode, we discuss what it means to be a collector versus what it means to be an investor. We talk about where we fall in the spectrum, and what it means to fall into each category. We also talk about why values of cars matters at all, and if (and how much) we care. We also talk about having a mixed collection of SGC and PSA slabbed cards in our collection, and what the future holds for our vintage card buying targets.
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All statements and opinions shared in this video (and all of my videos) are for entertainment purposes only, and are not investment advice. I consider Sports Cards to be a hobby, and not an investment. If you're interested in investment advice, I recommend connecting with a certified financial planner.

[@overwhamming]

I'm an investor who loves collectors. I respect the "buy what you love" approach and love interacting with collectors, but I have a limited amount of money and time to devote to this and have to make sure that I'm purchasing cards that have significant upside in the market. Everything I own is for sale anytime at the right price and I love the cards but am not that attached. Great channel!

[@MidLifeCards]

Great comment. Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts.

[@chrisolivo6591]

I fall into the collector category but of course i understand my cards have value (if i ever decided to sell). I just don’t look at them as an investment meaning i’m not banking on them appreciating like my 401k. In reality, we all want our cards to go up or atleast hold their value. The question is whether these cards are viewed as an asset like your 401k or they just viewed as disposable money? As for your house analogy, i still don’t look at my cards in that respect either. Yes, the value of your house doesn’t matter right now, but many people downsize when they retire. So it’s still relevant to your future assets. My cards will never be something that i bank on in terms of it affecting my standard of living down the road like my house, 401k, etc. But again, we can’t help and follow the values of our cards simply because they have value.

[@SacramentoKingsCards-kg8rm]

I think something to note about the quantity vs quality discussion is that the value of a card doesn’t necessarily indicate its quality. I think there are plenty of expensive cards that are lower in quality than super cheap cards.

[@MidLifeCards]

Good point.

[@ghostrunneron]

Great conversation and thankful you brought up supplemental materials, such as books, that enhance card collecting. That was going to be my question for you this week: What resources/materials do you recommend for vintage collectors? I recently finished the book of interviews - The Glory of Their Times by Lawrence Ritter - and it literally makes these players from the 20's and 30's come alive. One of the best parts of the interviews is when a player is telling stories of HIS favorite players. It opens up a whole new world of potentially lesser known players to collect and the added context through story is priceless.

[@MidLifeCards]

I love hanging with Darren. Always a lot of fun.

[@JayAverageVintageCollector]

This!!! As a collector, which I am, it is VERY difficult for me to decide on buying more for my collection (more cards) or buying a higher end card for my collection (1 or 2 cards). My mind has always been a quantity over quality mindset. BUT- now I’ve finally found some direction on how I want my vintage collection to look like and it’s very difficult to get away from that thought process of quantity over quality. Like Darren said, why do I need all this? I’m not a hoarder, but I feel like one 😂. I have a 3 tier list that I will begin checking off at my next card show (sometime in the fall). I will be bringing the largest budget than I have ever brought before. I could imagine walking out with 8-10 awesome cards on my list…or one or two unbelievable ones (unbelievable to a small budget guy- I’m not bringing thousands). But I don’t know how I will feel if I only come home with two. It’s difficult to say and I won’t be in that position for a few more months. Anyway, this was a great video! Thanks guys

[@MidLifeCards]

Glad you enjoyed it. We have so much fun recording these.

[@Hodges1455]

Gave a video like - Always enjoy these videos. Great topic, Darren is great.

[@MidLifeCards]

Darren is FANTASTIC!!

[@cryptonite8495]

Graig, when you talk about crossing PSA cards to SGC, do you mean cracking them out or leaving them in the PSA holders and asking SGC to at least match the grade? For me, cracking out every PSA or cracking out every SGC is not even a consideration. So it would have to be within the slab, even if I was inclined to spend the money. Oh yeah, and I think the girl with unmatched shoes is pretty cool and the guy who refuses to talk to her is not.

[@MidLifeCards]

I probably wouldn't do any of it...but I'd lean toward crossing over, not cracking and resubmitting.

[@edkeefe4914]

Great conversation guys. I’m an old timer, and have been collecting for years. While I think of myself as a collector, I have sold cards along the way as well. As John Manchini said, “all cards are sold eventually”. :) I now feel that the differentiator is motivation/intention. When I purchase a card, it’s because I am collecting the player, e.g. Ruth, Cobb, Young, Wagner, or because I am collecting the set, e.g. T206 or the prewar Ice Cream cards that Dave Bluejacket turned me on to. I see a lot of people in this hobby look at a card first and foremost thinking of resale profit to be made. Nothing wrong with that. Just not how I enjoy my hobby time.

[@BringingTheHeat-VBC]

I agree the sentiments and especially agree with John Mancini

[@MidLifeCards]

I agree. Mangini is right. All cards are sold eventually.

[@jamesgillem1294]

Awesome video As an old time collector,never ever thought about the investment part of it,if I want a card I get the card even today that's my mine set When collecting cards or anything for that matter,the investment comes into play as a default As far as the slab thing The one thing I hate is when people say,PSA gets a higher return value than SGC That doesn't make any sense, if the grades are the same for both slabs.you should ask for the same price,who's fault is it that you allow yourself to take less because of the slab it's in. That's a mind set that's been around for year that needs to change. I wouldn't sell my Chevy truck for less just because it doesn't say GMC on the badge. If your willing to take less, than that person is a fool. Thanks guys for the entertainment!!!

[@MidLifeCards]

Thanks so much for listening and commenting!!

[@nicholassabella8338]

Does it matter it comes down to preference on what you want to do with your stuff

[@MidLifeCards]

I agree.

[@oarancards4443]

I like to collect in a elegant way ,,

[@MidLifeCards]

Interesting.

[@rkowrestling]

Greg, your chemistry with Darren is incredible. I could listen to the two of you talk for hours! Regarding your OCD here is what I did; this doesn’t mean you should do it this way. As you always say “this is only my opinion”. Like all of us I have plenty of raw ungraded cards, and some slabs. Most of my slabs were PSA, some were SGC, one is Becket. I have no slabs from the lessor tier grading companies. I bought one of those Zion carry cases to display and store my slabs. The difference is the sized slabs made for a non perfect fit in my case which concerned me so I did something about it. Money doesnt bring happiness but it can work as a tool to relieve concerns. Clearly, you are very concerned that your slabs don’t match to the extent that you made a video about it and have spent multiple hours thinking about it! Let’s fix this problem! What I did was I evaluated every slabbed card I own for it’s long term prospect of being in my collection. If it was a card I decided I would never ever sell no matter the price and no matter the grade I decided to send it off to PSA. For every non slabbed PSA card I own that didnt make the cut for being in my long term never ever sell collection I decided to keep that card as is in its current slab. For those cards that I did resubmit (SGC to PSA) the grades I received were comparable). Please note, I did NOT “cross them over” but rather I “cracked and resubmitted” this process saved me a significant amount of money. I enjoyed the exercise and wish you all the best in how you decide to handle this situation.

[@MidLifeCards]

That's a good suggestion. I may do that.

[@stevegallo8483]

I see myself a collector much more than an investor (80/20). I am a buy what you like, and a buy the card not the grade type of guy. Investing to me is buying specifically to resell at some point in the future. (If that's your thing, cool. It's not mine.) Value is important even of you don't buy cards specifically to resell. Knowing values helps in making trades and/or if the collector decides to sell some cards to buy other cards.

[@MidLifeCards]

Fair points, for sure.

[@tonyleebrick9050]

Great video fellas! I am a collector and rarely sell, but I don’t have a problem with people who call themselves collector and sell a lot. I think the intent is what makes you a collector or investor. People who buy cards with the only focus being what can I flip this card for are not really collectors in my opinion. In regard to slabs matching. I made sure that all my Hank Aaron cards in my Hank Aaron run matched with PSA slabs. I haven’t done that with my Mantle run that came after that Aaron run. I have to admit though, I wish my Mantle slabs matched. It only bothers me in runs like that. It doesn’t bother me with just individual cards in my collection.

[@MidLifeCards]

It's tough. I battle it badly.

[@LamarrVann]

It's always going to be portrait style for me when looking back at one's kindergarten pics are you on the playground action photo or cheesin' for the cam with your toothless smile? You're posing of course for your portrait. I grew up at a time when portraits was in the main and action was coming online in the early '70's and although the Topps '71 Thurman Munson comes to mind or the Topps '76 Johnny Bench, the '80 Gary Carter and for sure the '82 in action subset Carlton Fisk (see a theme here) the portraits always have an endearing quality about them, their smile, the uniform emblazoned across their person allows for a more closer connection to the player whether it's the all too happy '56 Luis Aparicio or just giddy as could be '64 Pete Rose ROY or the non-assuming yet all-consuming speed and power portrait of '85 Topps Eric 'The Red' Davis speaks volumes and are to me timeless moment for posterity to the player and hobby collector alike!

[@MidLifeCards]

Well said. Those toothless smiles were the best.

[@royakard8536]

The thought of paying a company to cross a slab/ grade over just to be uniform is foolish excessive spending IMO. That said, if you had a display you look at regularly.. Perhaps over time, for you, it would be pleasing. Display pieces and investments are definitely two different topics. I would rather spend the cash expanding my collection. We all do as best suits us, and you worked for the money to do it also.

[@MidLifeCards]

I agree, which is why I haven't done it.

[@gaspardfigueroa]

Out of curiosity, I looked up Nancy Williams Laplace, and she seems pretty tight and outstanding. I read through her resume, educational background.

[@Ethangray-cr5nd]

Well, I picked the challenge to put my finances in order. Then I invested in cryptocurrency, stocks, through the assistance of my discretionary fund manager

[@Ethangray-cr5nd]

Mrs Nancy Williams Laplace

[@-vv3rv]

This is correct, Nancy's strategy has normalized winning trades for me also and it’s a huge milestone for me looking back to how it all started..

[@ReedMyresDavid]

Nancy is considered a key Crypto Strategist with one of the best copy Trading Portfolios and also very active in the cryptocurrency space.

[@SC-4rqub]

The first step to successful investment is figuring your goals and risk tolerance either on your own or with the help of a financial professional but it's very advisable you make use of professional

[@SacramentoKingsCards-kg8rm]

I'm gonna pause and comment on Darren's comment around 7:30 about offering to pay someone the value they paid for a card 20 years ago. I feel like this happens way less than I expected. I get that there's no reason to give or gift cards to other collectors that you could use to upgrade your collection, but I also like the idea of the hobby utopia of collectors helping each other out. If a collector finds a card that would fit in my collection and not there's for a fraction of its value, it would be cool if they bought it for me and offered it to me at cost. And same if I found one that fit their collection. Did that sort of thing ever exist in collecting? Feels like it is ludicrous now but may have existed at some point

[@MidLifeCards]

Interesting, for sure.

[@LegendsNeverDieCollection]

Just for proof I listened to the whole thing, all you guys have to do is ask- I’ll come on the show. 😂🤪🤪

[@MidLifeCards]

Yes!! We'll have to do that!!

[@Politano1955]

I'm strictly a collector. But if it wasn't for investors, I couldn't purchase some very cool cards I know own. The struggle is real.

[@MidLifeCards]

True that!!

[@user-qb6vi4cv2c]

I watch your video for about 5 to 10 minutes. This is pure rationalization of why I am doing this.

[@MidLifeCards]

I hope that means you enjoyed it!!

[@vintagesanctuary]

Great conversation, gentlemen! Graig, some thoughts on your slab uniformity dilemma: It's possible SGC could change to a smaller slab that has a somewhat different look, which just adds to the challenge for those who need the slab uniformity! You could have one display case for each slab type. Or, each row of a display case could only be one slab type. Wait, I've got it! You buy multiple houses on the same block! Not only could this be a solid investment, but in one house you only have SGC slabs, in another house or two you only have PSA slabs, and so forth! Now I'm feeling really bad because this was an attempt at humor on my part, but you are seriously considering making your neighbors an offer on their house! 😂👊

[@MidLifeCards]

Good point about the possibility of SGC potentially changing their slab at some point.

[@larrygitlin6017]

I have so many different slabs including some GAIs and tons of old Becketts cause I hated sending into PSA as you had to send then registered mail. I am with you with paintings moving and slanted but not with my cards. I only care because I realize that some are not going to sell as high as they would in SGC or PSA holders. My GAI graded cards I will send into some time to SGC and regrade as I have done that in the past but my Becketts I will leave alone as they look good. Sorry you are so anal on the slabs.

[@MidLifeCards]

I wish I wasn't, but I am.

[@willg.2045]

Interesting chat, guys! I think even the "truest" collector often needs to consider current market value of the cards. To me, being a "true" collector still allows someone to make trades, and market values are important to know to make fair trades. Even if there is a card that you like and have no intention of moving, sometimes market values convince you to move the card. During the heady days of the pandemic I had a card that 50x'ed (a 1977 Topps Luke Skywalker #1 PSA 8). I didn't really want to sell the card, but I knew I could get cards I wanted more by selling it and so I moved it. That still seems like a "true" collector sort of move.

[@MidLifeCards]

That's fair.

[@blixcards]

Great conversation. To answer Graig's question; for me, I have a Frankenstein HOF RC collection. The only ones I would switch out are the ones I bought decades ago for cheap not in tuxes or ones I believe are undergraded from other companies. It doesn't bother me but I also don't display them. I also get cards graded fairly cheap so it's worth it sometimes. Speaking of displaying... all you KZbin guys have slab displays. Do you guys ever worry about the elements affecting the card conditions? I simply can't out of the fear of "what if?". Darren's argument around 7:00 is great in the ongoing debate about collector/investor. Would they sell for what they paid? Of course not! But also, they probably want to take their collection to the grave, literally as well. I picture a "true collector" as a guy who has everything original. Dusty boxes and binders. Yellow top-loaders from the day of purchase with crumbling sleeves inside and a sticker with the price. Four rounded corners, a face crease and fading, and those are the centerpieces of their collection. No retirement fund, these are the copies of these cards they own and that's that. No graded cards at all. I say this with the utmost respect, no slight whatsoever. I get the debate but I'm both. Condition means a ton to me though because of the trauma of the 1980's-90's "it aint worth nothin'" in that grade days... and I left my 1985 Fleer Clemens and Puckett in my pocket through the wash. It lingers! I can't help but want the cards I own to increase also, PC or not. Obviously not all will but it's the hope.

[@MidLifeCards]

Frankenstein slab collections are great...they just make me goofy, because of how I'm wired.

[@blixcards]

@@MidLifeCards Man I get the whole aesthetics thing, especially if they were displayed. I just can't afford to be picky! I will likely crossover some of my non-SGC HOF RCS that I got in on cheap to a tux some day. Sorry again for the letdown at trade night! John's offered to get me set up and I can't pass that up.

[@mikewrobel2881]

Graig, would you ignore a student who you encounter in school wearing two different shoes? Darren's response was perfect. Would you feel differently about the person if you learned that the student had been up all night studying, almost missed the school bus, after running out the door hardly paying attention to her footwear selection?

[@MidLifeCards]

That's a fair analysis. But, one thing I SHOULD help, and the other I get to CHOOSE whether I want it or not.

[@mookiechillson]

Don’t worry about. the Frankenstein collection Graig!! The cards inside don’t match either!

[@DoubleDvintagebaseballcards]

Perfect answer Mookie I love that done enough said 👊👊

[@MidLifeCards]

True.

[@SplendidSports]

Graig I just watched like 3 hours of your content in a row! I feel your pain on the slab consistency. What I do now is keep the slabs the same for specific runs or cards in common and that satisfies my compulsion 🤷‍♂️

[@MidLifeCards]

3 hours. I hope you didn't have a headache the next day.

[@nicholassabella8338]

Is it worth getting graded

[@MidLifeCards]

True.

[@thacardstory5800]

I listened to the end. You know it has to be Mookie now that he has exposed himself.

[@MidLifeCards]

LOL.

[@mackeymintle66]

People, in general, have to pick a side. It’s not helpful in the long run, but I understand how it happens. 😂 If you’re ever interested in doing any “ Vintage Football Card “ collaborations. I might be the guy for 1948-1988 Football. 😎😎👍 My collection is probably an investment… at this point…but I was mostly interested in the speculative nature of the Junk Wax Baseball stuff at the time. 👍

[@MidLifeCards]

Well said and great point.

[@rayfromphilly6969]

Terrific conversation guys.

[@MidLifeCards]

We have a blast talking cards. We definitely need to have you on with us as a guest sometime soon.

[@rayfromphilly6969]

@@MidLifeCards 🙂

[@JStottlemire1]

Enjoyed this topic and conversation a lot. Great job guys.

[@MidLifeCards]

Thanks for watching. I love watching your channel and MASSIVE pickups!!

[@JStottlemire1]

@@MidLifeCards stay tuned for some big ones showcased together my friend.

[@DoubleDvintagebaseballcards]

Love the conversation. I never once was bothered by the different slabs. It wasnt until youtube that it even crossed my mind that someone would need then all in the same slab 😂😂😂. I also think the SGC slab is by far the worst slab on the market it feels cheap looks cheap and the dang number is massive !!! ,but with that said I only look at the card anyways and to me the clearest smallest slab wins 🤗👊🤙🤙

[@ACD1994]

Dylan...please delete immediately. I just bought an SGC card over the weekend!! 😥

[@DoubleDvintagebaseballcards]

@@ACD1994 i buy sgc all the time ha ha

[@DoubleDvintagebaseballcards]

@@ACD1994 I do think the black border looks epic though on the sgc slab 😜

[@ACD1994]

@@DoubleDvintagebaseballcards What do you think of the big number on the slab for SGC. I might be in the minority, but I like that it is BIG. Can see it without having to put on my glasses. Never mind I read your comment again, and I hate it more LOL. I will say though, it is different than whatever PSA did with their label. I don't really care much for it. But to each their own

[@DoubleDvintagebaseballcards]

@@ACD1994 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@cryptonite8495]

To "pure collectors" who will never sell - Do you really plan to saddle your spouse or children with your collection when you're gone? Graig's father may have a ready-made landing place for his collection, but I don't think that's the most common scenario. So value matters.

[@ACD1994]

What if I don't have a wife and kids?

[@cryptonite8495]

@@ACD1994 I suppose you could take it with you. 😂

[@ACD1994]

@@cryptonite8495 😉

[@David_Mussari]

Great conversation, guys. Thanks. 😊

[@MidLifeCards]

Fair points.

[@MichaelRader-vu1tt]

A few weeks ago I asked this question that wasn't answered. I asked you whether you would rather buy an expensive Vintage Rookie Card or buy all of that players other cards in good condition for about the same price? I think in this video, you partially answered my question as you seem to look for more variety than one expensive card. I have always gone after the expensive Rookies due to that fact that those cards seem to hold the most value and I am proud to share those with friends and family. Explaining further, when I show my Vintage cards, the first question many people ask me is, "Is that a Rookie Card?" As pertaining to this current video, truthfully, I am more a collector of Vintage and keep trending that way, and also more of a investor for modern era cards. I don't hold near as much personal feelings/attachment towards modern cards due to the fact I have been collecting for 50 years. I do sell cards, but mostly modern. Thanks again for the great content of your videos.

[@MidLifeCards]

Personally, I think I'd rather have the rookie card, assuming it's a card I like the looks of. That said, I totally understand why someone would rather have MORE nice cards than one BIG card.

[@RL3sports]

Firstly, seek some therapy for that OCD. Second, maybe i missed this in the conversation. Darren obviously has a larger card budget than you. Does that make him more of an investor? Lastly, you do whatnot sales and set up at a card show. Does that move the scale more towards an investor?

[@MidLifeCards]

Rest assured that I'm medically treated for my OCD. I wish that was a joke, but it's not.

[@3WordsCollector]

I ain’t looking at her face either 🍑

[@MidLifeCards]

LOL. Now THAT is funny.

[@ACD1994]

I am glad we're putting to rest the ''collectors grade'.' I couldn't even begin to tell you, which of my cards were graded, and by whom, but I did just buy an SGC 6 1971 Topps Roberto Clemente on Saturday. I'm pretty stoked about it. But paid, a bit more than was, hoping for. In regards to collecting vs. investing. I was watching Ryan Nolan's video. A Sidney Green PSA ''10'' sold for 12 thousand dollars. Who the heck is Sidney Green?! What frustrates me Graig, is the set registry people who need everything to be perfect, it kind of makes things that much difficult for people like us. Whether were collectors, or ''investors,'' I don't see logic, in 12 K on PSA whatever...Sidney Green. But what do I know. Anyway, this was a good conversation. So far, has the record of staying some what on topic, which means next time most likely will live up to the ''off topic'', for sure. 🥲

[@MidLifeCards]

LOL. It's interesting how much disdain people have for that term.

[@ACD1994]

@@MidLifeCards It's just dumb imo. Lol.