Are You Old Enough for Historical Wargaming?

[@darktree8449]

Upsides to historical wargaming: Your codex never sucks is this edition. No-one owns the period. It’s no-one’s IP. It can’t be End Times-ed. You have absolute freedom to choose whatever ruleset for whatever manufacturer of miniatures you like. Some eras - particularly the Napoleonic - are visually stunning. Equal in colour and flair to Warhammer Empire, there’s just no griffons. You never run out of reading material. Ever. And you can be surprised at how interesting stuff is, and how much you never knew. You can port your hobby focus across to Total War titles sometimes. Decade after decade - there’s always someone who wants to play it. The tactics you may win a game by... may have won if for you in real life. And when you reverse history with that... it’s a trip.

[@tabletopminions]

All of these are good points.Thanks for sharing, and thanks for watching!

[@Nergling]

You could argue most of the same points for simply picking any period of fantasy wargaming, playing with whatever miniatures you fancy and with whom ever you want. If you ran out of fantasy reading material this side of the year 3,000 I’d be surprised, although not all necessarily set in the same universe it can all inspire nonetheless. But I like your comment all the same, I do think people should to get out of the one manufacturer mindset.

[@titusbyzantine4949]

@@Nergling what is reading material?

[@Nergling]

@@titusbyzantine4949 I'm not sure I understand the question, I meant you can find lots of inspiration in regular fantasy novels that aren't linked to your wargames.

[@titusbyzantine4949]

@@Nergling oh I'm just curious cuz I wanted to read some cool historical reading material or fantasy novels and stuff

[@Edithae]

If you're old enough to take an interest in history, you're old enough to wargame. What better way to encourage a kid's interest in the Romans or Vikings than by playing games and painting miniatures with him? (or her).

[@tabletopminions]

It's a good point, especially if the child is of that rare type that already is interested in history. Thanks for watching!

[@jackarmstrongiii3669]

Exactly!

[@DeadBeat1azy]

Tabletop Minions It's not so rare for kids to like history, thought maybe it's more common here in Britain. My parents and grandparents have always taken me to castles and historical places myself, my siblings and friends all like history in some form. For me if I looked at a Bretonnian I think cool Medieval etc. You're never too young to like history, or their associated games

[@kolbys.3798]

@bartley butsford I got into the hobby around 12, I love history and ive always taken a liking to military history. Discovered miniatures when going down the rabbit hole on youtube and landed on a 40k video by mwg and got myself hooked.

[@Jyllyfish]

Your voice is like butter, I don't even care much for historical war-gaming. I just like to listen to your voice in the background, so calming.

[@tabletopminions]

I'm glad you like it. Thanks for watching (listening)!

[@shaunaporter6415]

I am 11 years old and have built 9 tanks for flames of war without help and I love playing flames of war

[@tabletopminions]

I'm glad to hear it. Not many people your age can do that. Keep it up. Thanks for watching!

[@cookiestudios2565]

im 11 also and i built all my infinity figures

[@officialteaincorporated243]

Same but I've made only 7. I have painted around 500 6mm figures though.

[@cookiestudios2565]

@@officialteaincorporated243 am i the only person thats gets a bunch of frickin super glue on my hands

[@officialteaincorporated243]

@@cookiestudios2565 Yes. I don't use superglue.

[@UbiqueMatt]

Lion Rampant is an ideal introduction to historical wargaming. Easy to learn and provides fun, entertaining games. It's variant's fantasy and upcoming colonial and black powder provide further access into the historical side of gaming.

[@FenrisChosen]

When I was in middle school (grade 6, going to grade 7), I had an instructor who offered a summer "'class" on wargaming. A bunch of us boys (while we were a large middle school, I was in a magnet school and thus, other kids in the program were arranged away from the general population of the middle school in question) in the class joined up with a handful of girls. The class itself was really an intro to hobby warhamming, painting, and a loose campaign using the "ancient history" backdrop created with the ruleset De Bellis Antiquatis. We chose our "ancient culture" from the Romans, the Greek, the Celts, and the Egyptians. Obviously the ruleset was flexible enough to pit these forces against each other from drastically different time periods, but it was a blast. From this club, we were introduced to the Lord of the Rings game that GW puts out (this was when it was going into the Two Towers set) and Warhammer. Additionally, my dad builds plastic models. This has been his hobby since he was a boy, and his abilities in that hobby are enormous. He buys all kinds of kits, specialty parts, tools, and the like to build his models. Additionally, the amount of research he does on these models is considerable. As a kid, I desperately wanted to play with these built models (a HUGE no-no) and know what he was up to. When I got a little older, my dad bought me my first starter deck and pack of cards for the Pokemon TCG. Years later, my introduction to wargaming from the above mentioned class, ignited and combined with my love of games and interest in my dad's hobby in model kits. To this day, he and I will exchange bits of information regarding the construction and painting of kits, including paint choices.

[@Choom89]

Really lovely, wish I had that growing up.

[@Lomhow]

Ever since I was a kid, I was kinda enamored with the landscapes adults would make in basements and the weird train track valleys and stuff. I feel like you just kinda know when you're young that you're gonna get into it.

[@CrunchGrunt]

I've been a serious historical miniatures wargamer since 1987. I suppose that makes me a member of the Old Guard. I really enjoy the research, modeling and especially painting that goes along with the historical gaming hobby. Along with that I very much enjoy recreating historical battles. The interest is in the "What If" and recreating the who, what, when, where and how. Lastly, I get much satisfaction and happiness from putting together and running a game for friends and newcomers at club meetings, game stores or game conventions as a Game Master. Nothing beats players biting their nails and praying to the Dice Gods over a tabletop covered in cool terrain and well painted military models. Thanks for posting this one Atom.

[@khitan1326]

I started historical gaming in 1964, so if you are Old Guard what does that make me!! Definitely agree with you on the "what if" and Imagi-nations side of historicals, but really there is so much variety in the hobby there is definitely something for everyone.

[@tabletopminions]

Sounds like you're doing great work. I'm happy you're running games for others at conventions. Thanks for watching!

[@Matt-tb5un]

I started playing a Napoleonic's version of tabletop when I was 8. I was eager and couldn't get enough. Still play it among others 25 years later! I was an odd kid playing with all those old bearded guys haha.

[@tabletopminions]

You're right. Usually the players in those games are older. Interesting. Thanks for watching!

[@lianhector9546]

Matthew Andersen Wich rules?

[@keithscholes6158]

Admittedly I am old now, but in my teens when I first became interested in wargaming the situation was the opposite of that which you describe, practically the only form of wargaming was historical. Dungeons and Dragons came along in my late teens but back then it was very much a niche interest. My interest in wargaming lapsed in my thirties (other aspects of life intervened) and I decided to get back into wargaming in my mid-fifties and duly went to a local wargaming club. I was stunned , about 70% of the games were scifi and fantasy, largely Warhammer, even the older contingent were largely playing those kind of games. I had invested in an American Civil War army, as that was a major wargaming period when I was first playing wargames even in the UK, only to be told that "we once had someone who played that but he left", I have now settled on WW2 in 6mm but largely played solo. I think though, that there is an interesting study to be made about how wargaming shifted away from being primarily historical.

[@Nergling]

Shouldn’t the question be: Are you interested in historical wargaming? 🤔

[@enginetruck20]

So, at 14 years old I was exposed to historical war gaming. I played a game with 15mm napoleonic miniatures. That sent me into the world of historical war gaming and a huge war gaming club on the east coast! I was more interested in American Civil War and the American War of Independence. I have stayed with the scale, 15mm. I am now 42 and continue to play and paint. Excellent video Uncle Atom.

[@rustedbeetle]

I usually recommend De Bellis Antiquitatis as an easy way to get into historical/ancients. Simple rules, and you really don't need minis, just bases to play.

[@sologami]

I played an intro game of this and it was quite good. Very beer & pretzel, but beer&pretzel+ :-D

[@tabletopminions]

I'ce heard of DBA for years, but never actually played. I'd love to try it out sometime. Thanks for watching!

[@nathankoole1989]

I'm 11 years old from the netherlands And love your CHANNEL

[@MrFuryHeritag3]

good for you young child

[@tabletopminions]

I'm glad you're enjoying it. Thanks for watching!

[@brie.cheese_x]

O kijk, een andere Nederlander! Welkom!

[@georgedebleu]

Bolt Action can be played in any scale, covers the whole of WW2 and is a BLAST! Also, it requires only a squad or two so per side to start so is much easier (financially) for people to get into. :) It can be played in 15, 25 or 54mm! Having played FoW since release - BA is a MUCH better game. Warlord has also released Konflikt '47 which is a weird war WW2 game in which you can utilize your WW2 stuff with no problem! :) Saga can be played in 15, 25 and 54mm too! The Naval battles at Origins were Fletcher Pratt Naval Rules. More than likely the set originally published in 1933 (Yes THAT 1933 A.D.) then updated again during WW2. EDIT: Forgot to mention that Fletcher Pratt was reprinted with the campaign rules and added commentary in January of 2012. (Not sure, but it seems like it is in its 20th printing! xD)

[@tabletopminions]

+georgedebleu I didn't know those games could be played in different scales. That pretty interesting. Thanks for watching!

[@bobemmerson1580]

I started at age 12 with 20mm WWII and Napoleonic, and some pretty awful home-brew rule sets. When the people I had played with stopped doing war gaming (age 14) I moved into WH40k and WHFantasy as the local store had plenty of players to game against. When the GW stores stopped running gaming nights we started our own club. Without the constraints of playing GW games we branched out into different game systems. I moved to "Bolt Action" as my main system, mainly playing the minor nations. Now I run a small business producing Tanks for the minor nations. So I should probably be thankful for GW closing their gaming nights because it led me to creating my own business. As a post-script, I also have a large "Pike & Shotte" army, but not many play it locally. So I mainly use it as a "Kingdoms of Men" army for "Kings of War"....

[@tabletopminions]

Nice! I'm glad to hear you started your own business. That's a real benefit with historicals. Thanks for watching!

[@BloodDragon592]

I'm interested in creating my own business in making terrain and maybe in the future miniatures for tabletop games. Do you think you could give me advice?

[@johnwayneeverett6263]

HELLO I DO NAPS....28MM I LOVE TO PAINT....FIGURES AND HISTORY SO YA ....MY QUESTION IS I WANT TO DO SOMETHING WITH MY 20MM 1 72 NAPS I HAVE SO MUCH OF THEM AND REALLY LOVE THEM BUT PAINTING THEM SOME FIGURES ARE SO BAD.....SO I WQENT TO FRONT RANK CALPE MINIATURES ...I DO LIKE THE 18 MILL .....SOME TIMES I WISH I COULD OF STARTED OUT WITH METALS 18MM ON NAPS TO GET MORE ON TABLE BUT HEY I AM FROM THE 1960S BORN IN 1957 SO WHEN THE INTERNET CAME ON .....I COULD FINALLY BUY WHAT I WAITED FOR 30 YEARS 40 YEARS 50 YEARS YES 50 I AM 11 AND I FINALLY AM GETTING MY ARMY WITH A BIG STICK TOGETHER......HAVE YOU SEEN ....MY DRESS TO KILL 28MM NAPOLEONIC ARMY ON THE TUBE HE HAS A GREAT STORY AND SHOW N TELL....

[@dalt220]

Chain of Command for WW2, simple, fast, yet surprisingly detailed and plays out historically well. Battlegroup Kursk is also good for a heavier simulation feel whilst still being fun and (relatively) quick.

[@bigeye6606]

Yes! CoC for historical WW2. I LOVE Bolt Action but it's not very historical unless you and your opponent try to be as historically correct as possible. it feels like 40k in WW2.

[@timer1449]

Another vote for Chain of Command! Amazing system with more depth both tactically and strategically than almost any other system out there. We tend to play it at 15mm but it works at any scale. In fact, almost any of the Too Fat Lardies games are amazing and work at any scale.

[@corvusboreus2072]

@@timer1449 With the ground scale defined as 12 inches to 40 yards, playing CoC with 15mm figures translates to pretty much an exact scale miniaturisation in terms of horizontal to vertical ratios. Myself, I play with 20mm (1/72) figures, mainly because at that scale there is a wide range of troops and vehicles that are both relatively cheap and readily available. Chain of Command is far and away the best small scale tabletop tactical rule system that I have played.

[@MisterKisk]

Thanks for talking about Saga. Seems really interesting to me, and I especially love the time period. Never heard of it before (I'm generally new to wargaming), so I appreciated learning about it. Going to look into starting up a local group.

[@tabletopminions]

I know it's getting more popular. Thanks for watching!

[@shrekkzdadii1955]

I'm 10, love your channel, love history and play historicals. I find the Napoleonic era fascinating. Do more vids on historical! 😄😀😄

[@tabletopminions]

Hopefully I will. Thanks for watching!

[@shrekkzdadii1955]

cool! I want to start a series on my channel where I talk about historical battles WITH minis

[@atlanticstxr9022]

You’re probably 14 now time flys

[@maisondavis267]

As a 16 year old who is obsessed with all ranges of history, I’ve kept my eye on historical wargaming for nearly a year now. I’ve found myself infatuated with Little Wars TV’s tabletop campaigns and battles. Finally for Christmas this year I decided to ask for some Flames of War miniatures. I had been researching them for nearly half a year. So far I would say they are definitely high quality and piecing them all together has been quite the adventure! The only concern I have is painting. I’ll likely have to find some guides on how to paint these miniatures and tanks.

[@olschoolgamer1869]

When I was in elementary school back in the early 70s WWII was my favorite historical time period. It wasn't until the late 70s early 80s with DND and Traveller that I became interested in fantasy and sci fi. For me historical can be daunting due to the detail you know is there. Saga and game of this ilk are good because of the higher view point, you don't have to know the linage of Saxon kings to be able to raid villages for pigs.

[@dannygnaniah7552]

I had the reverse happen...been interested in WW2 all my life and now taking the plunge into AOS and Bolt Action

[@clapperburn]

Being a fan of Game of Thrones i recently realised that a lot of 11th/12th century Danish history is very similar to the events of GoT, this got me into painting medieval/dark age figures which I will most likely use for Lion Rampant. I definately felt 'the click' a year ago, however I am only 18 years old. Awesome channel by the way, just subscribed ;)

[@tabletopminions]

Glad to hear that you heard it. Thanks for watching!

[@thingsstuff4620]

Great video please do more on this topic and about the various organizations across the USA such as the Historical Miniatures Gaming Society which has chapters all across the nation and the gaming conventions for historical miniatures games thank you

[@AndrewFishman]

You say you'd play if anyone was interested around your area. Best way to get people interested is get 2 armies, paint one, and invite your mates to play the more powerful one. Once they beat you a few times with and unpainted army, they'll want to paint it. Sell it to them. Then ramp your own army up and play properly... Or, just nag until they give in.

[@tabletopminions]

That's a pretty good idea, actually. Thanks for watching!

[@alanmorgan3490]

Collecting and painting each side is how I do it. I have mates that are happy to wargame over a few beers, but they're not much for getting such things done. This is entirely fair enough - and frankly, I enjoy that whole side (and it's great to have stuff all painted up to provide on a good table.

[@forthetsar9505]

Yes old enough for Historical gaming and have always been interested in it. Haven't done any war-gaming in a very long time.

[@rsreston]

Another good video, Atom. I've recently been introduced to DBA, and it's simple and fun. I think what attracted me most was the new scale for me - 15mm, where everything looks cuter and more grandiose, because at that size, you can have a whole battlefield in a regular table. But the rulesystem is written in the worst possible way, so it's a barrier.

[@tabletopminions]

I've heard about DBA for years, but I've never played. I didn't realize that the rules are poorly written. I'll have to check it out. Thanks for watching!

[@captjingles8689]

This video definitely explains my growth in gaming. Started with 40k and fantasy, moved to war machine/hordes, and now really like DZC. But recently I've looked into lots of historical games. For me it's the crowds playing. I like a semi-competitive game with opponents I enjoy being around. After 3 years in my area it's become the historical crowd I enjoy most. Awesome videos!

[@tabletopminions]

The people you play with can certainly be one of the most important aspects to the game. Thanks for watching!

[@Yukon5G]

I can heartily recommend the Commands & Colors series by Richard Borg. It's been adapted into many historical eras. While technically a board game, it's super easy to convert to miniatures. The different games using the Commands & Colors systems with the era they represent are: Commands & Colors: Ancients (Classical Greece and Rome mostly) Samurai Battles (Sengoku Period feudal Japan) BattleLore (technically fantasy, but 1st edition had expansions for medieval Europe) Commands & Colors: Napoleonic (Napoleonic era) Battle Cry (American Civil War) Memoir 44 (WWII) There is a version called Commands & Colors: Tricorne, that covers the America War of Independence, but it has not been released yet. There is also Battle of Westeros which covers the conflicts in the Song of Ice and Fire series by GRR Martin.

[@vidi5086]

I've started my hobby with a Saga more than two years ago, and it's a fantastic "beer tabletop" game!

[@JustinMickles]

I turned 31 in March, and this is EXACTLY what happened to me. Switch flipped, and now I'm heavily looking into historicals

[@ScottCroom]

Honestly, when you get long in tooth and grey in beard, you start reflecting on things like your own past as well as the past of everything else. So, it's natural that the older you get you start looking back for something to help bring order to the world and have a ton of fun at the same time. DBA FTW.

[@tabletopminions]

You're very possibly right. Thanks for watching!

[@rossdiggle]

Very hot for those in Birmingham and Minsk. the people would feel like they're melting

[@bigbake132]

Ouch

[@cameraman502]

Too soon.* *As if I wasn't going to make that exact comment

[@cricketerfrench7501]

It's always Birmingham

[@izrador2264]

Loving your channel. My friend and I are about to dive in to Bolt Action. I've been into historicals for a few years now (I'm 42) and he's just now getting his taste of it. I started Flames of War much like you did now I'm loving Axis and Allies, Bolt Action and Sails of Glory. Oh we still have our SF and Fantasy interests such as Xwing, Armada, RPGs and boardgames but I'm certainly starting to shift historical. Again, I'm finding your take on things as well as your interests very compatible with mine. I live in rural Texas and finding like minds nearby is nearly impossible so Fridays are becoming very refreshing due to your work. Thank you.

[@tabletopminions]

I'm glad my videos can help you to have better Fridays. Thanks for watching!

[@911Paleo]

Try Muskets and Tomahawks and Black Powder (Warlord Games).

[@TimboSlice69420]

Crossfire is an interesting historical system my uncle used to play, the whole thing came about when a board game maker was challenged by a friend to make a WWII wargame that didn't require any measurements or set turns. Very fluid gameplay from what I remember of watching my uncle play... LindyBeige has a couple of videos about it on his channel if anyone would like to check it out a bit more. Great vid as always :)

[@tabletopminions]

Sounds interesting. Thanks for watching!

[@runadoona3251]

Konflikt 47 might be worth for those who like Weird War themes but want rules like Bolt Action.

[@tabletopminions]

I've been hearing more and more about that game. Thanks for watching!

[@kglguy]

I am one of those exceptions that has always loved history. There was a battlefield from the War of Independence down the street from my house growing up, and as a kid I would go watch the reenactment every September. While 2nd edition Warhammer 40,000 was my first miniature game (I was 12), it wasn't too long before I was using the rules for archaic weapons in that game's wargear book to play battles with my 1/72 scale plastic Napoleonic and 100 years war soldiers.

[@zilla333333]

I'm trying to appreciate Flames of War, but it can get really slow to play with some of the crunch (artillery rolls, smoke, going to ground, etc.). I understand there's a new version coming out soon, which I'm hopeful will streamline the game a bit.

[@tabletopminions]

You and me, both. Thanks for watching!

[@genxman7211]

zilla333333 try Chain of Command or I Ain't Been Shot Mum

[@reks724]

I've played RTS games since I was a kid and the Total War series has always filled my love of historic and strategic gaming. I just recently discovered tabletop gaming and historical war games are dream come true to me

[@thegoodsoldiersvjek2335]

I started playing Historicals 45 years ago - before there was Fantasy , got into Fantasy via the new AOS !

[@tabletopminions]

Glad to hear you're still playing! Thanks for watching!

[@steveholmes11]

Maybe I'm living my life in reverse. When I was young, toy shops had boxes of Airfix plastic minis, plus their tank and aircraft kits. I started with these models and classic authors like Donald Featherstone. The fantasy boom came later, but always seemed to draw most of its influence from specific historical ages. It's really dark age Europe with their legends (magic and horrific monsters) come to life. What historicals and fantasy have in common are: fun games, research learning the rules and building your army, model making and painting, and the competition of battle.

[@sirrathersplendid4825]

Stephen Holmes - Likewise. I guess it’s all down to availability. Once upon a time there was a model shop on every high street, usually full of historical figures and model kits. They were the entry drug and historical gaming was the norm. Now, every kid plays fantasy video games and the only physical model shops are those run by the Warhammer/SciFi fantasy firms.

[@bhangrafan4480]

This is definitely generational. Old folks like me grew up in a world where the media was fully of WW2 films. Even today anyone watching freeview history channels will get a belly full of WW2. Modelling WW2 went along with it. In recent decades Star Wars and other Sci Fi films and TV series are very prominent in the media, along with collecting models and memorabilia, so this is why I think this would be a first entry point for the young. Apart from this I don't see why historic wargaming should be avoided by the young. On the contrary I think it can be very educational, and motivational if linked to history study.

[@tommymclaughlin-artist]

I'm watching this while cutting components for my scifi skirmish prototype, and now I'm feeling very inspired to make a historical game featuring some VERY local history of my city.

[@Levowitz]

Historicals, for me, are weird because these are events that actually happened. Because it isn't scripted, it's hard for me to wrap my head around playing events out differently, or I guess having General Custer leading my troops. It's very different than say, having High Marshal Helbrecht or Chapter Master Gabriel Angelos leading -- they weren't real people, so I don't feel awkward about it.

[@pbeccas]

Look at it in a different way. Your playing games to understand history and your placing yourself in these people's shoes to make yourself more aware of what the challenges were. On top of that it's fun and addictive.

[@tabletopminions]

I can see what you're saying, especially with big games like Risk or Axis and Allies that simulate the entire war. However, most tabletop wargames generally just depict a simgle battle so the outcomes isn't always that weird. Thanks for watching!

[@davidkeith3920]

I actually started out with historical mini wargaming. I went to a summer camp at Baylor University and one of the 'semesters' was, in essence, a Civil War-era tabletop game, with multiple tables set up for all the students. Ever since then, I was hooked. I bought a few Battletech minis just because I love mechs, painted up lots of D&D minis, then dropped into the various clix games (MaGe Knight and Mechwarrior: Dark Age) before finally deciding to step into WH40k.

[@tabletopminions]

Nice, I've played a bunch of those myself. Thanks for watching!

[@frankfreyiii]

I started Historical Miniatures Gaming back in 1971 when I was in my early 20's. I've been at it ever since. I agree with Neil Moulden about Osprey Games. My favorite is the Lion Rampant/Dragon Rampant series. I'm also a big fan of SAGA. All three games are easy to learn.

[@tabletopminions]

I should look at Lion and Dragon Rampant, as well. I've seen them mentioned before. Thanks for watching!

[@essayons7]

Great video! I was the opposite of your "gamer continuum" example: I started with historicals, and later took up fantasy as well. I'll mention just 3 more game systems that would be easy for someone to get started with: 1) Sharpe Practice by Two Fat Lardies - runs the gamut from French & India War all the way up to pre-WW1. 2) Lion Rampant - Medieval (you can even use some of your old WHF minis in a pinch. 3) The Men Who Would Be Kings - Mainly British colonial, but anything really from mid-1800 to very early 1900's. The common thread with these rules are the small number of miniatures you need to game - about the same as Bolt Action. Keep up the great work!

[@mistertee1979]

It happened to me this year actually, when I went to Salute and ended up at the Warlord stand and left with a box of British Paras. The rest, as they say, is history (sorry)

[@criticalfail8005]

I started with Bolt Action because I am an absolute WWII nut. I ended up doing the reverse and now play both Bolt Action and 40k, getting interested in fantasy later.

[@MetalGear0987]

The thing is i really love ww2 but there arent any shops/players in my area. Only thing you can find is a games workshop(shop lol).

[@tabletopminions]

And there's no GW shops within 100 miles of me, so I have the other problem, somewhat. Thanks for watching!

[@MetalGear0987]

Tabletop Minions Oh, i tought they are like everywhere! Well atleast here in europe(germany)

[@pauls3585]

I'm 51 and started gaming in 1980. Our local club mainly played historical games then, with fantasy games being the fringe games. Over my 37 years of gaming, I have always been interested in historical games and it makes me happy to see that more of them are now main stream games (they weren't locally for a long time). I personally play Bolt Action and have several 28mm historical armies. I must have been one of those young historical gamers that you were talking about - but I have no real choice in our local club.

[@MetalKingStudio]

Hahaha! The title of this video is exactly something that I asked myself this past summer. I went through an awesome LGS in Stockton CA that had a truly amazing range of games available. And it hit me how strange it is that I've stuck so closely to Sword and Sorcery. I make a Sword and Sorcery miniatures game so it's fully in my wheel-house. But it's only been about four years since I thoroughly branched out from a strict GW diet. I think Jumping game groups is a barrier worth mentioning. People usually play games that their friends play... anyway. I liked hearing your thoughts.

[@tabletopminions]

Good point: changing clubs can change your game. Thanks for watching!

[@vincentstella5131]

I agree that changing your "club" can change your game. I recently moved due to my job and the new group of friends I game with have a wider variety of gaming interests than my previous group. I miss my old friends and the mostly historical gaming we did with some sci fi and fantasy but now I play more sci fi and fantasy than before.....some great, some not so great.

[@chriswilson6486]

Love that you brought up SAGA. Such a great system, and I love how it's not large-scale. I mean, it could be, but you're usually only pushing around maybe 15-25 models per side. My group has yet to look too hard into Muskets and Tomahawks, but I think it may be our choice when we start talking about the F&I War.

[@tabletopminions]

I love to see the models and table for SAGA at Adepticon. Thanks for watching!

[@pheagol]

Hail Caesar!

[@clonetf141]

is it a good game?

[@trollpikken6907]

Imperator titan: Ira yes

[@thathairyguy]

Memoir 44 is pretty accessible for someone on a budget and easy to learn if you're a younger player - easier than something more complicated I mean! I know it's a contained game, but it's a nice intro to both history and wargaming :) Great videos man. New subscriber here. Love the discussions.

[@tabletopminions]

A friend of mine has painted his set and runs it at local conventions a lot. Thanks for watching!

[@JamieKaos]

I will never be old enough, I refuse to live in the real world.

[@tabletopminions]

And that's fine, too. They're not for everyone. Thanks for watching!

[@Bacxaber]

@bartley butsford Bartley, it was a meme comment. Fucking relax.

[@iro149]

I’ve had some medieval minis for a while now but have only just started painting them. I’m getting a castle soon and hope to try and get my head around the Lion Rampant game system. Great video man!

[@nicklarocco4178]

I actually have a history degree, and I never got into historicals because my area of interest is middle ages Europe. But there were never really wargames for that because they almost compete with a similar space with fantasy games. Saga definitely interests me. It's worth noting I really hate the enormous full plate and swords the size of bodies that many fantasy games have. Mail hauberk with a simple arming sword, now that's cool.

[@gch8810]

Nick Larocco I

[@valvalvalvalval17]

You're so right! For the last few years I've started to regret not paying attention in history class, I'm a medical student and all I was interested in where the sciences . This interesting video is giving me some excellent options to motivate me to continue enjoying miniature wargaming and expand my historical knowledge. Thanks

[@tabletopminions]

I'm glad to have been able to help. Thanks for watching!

[@emperorgameling5064]

Anyone know where I can get some good World War 1 miniatures?

[@tabletopminions]

Honestly, I don't. I think Battlefront did a WW1 version of Flames of War for a bit. Thanks for watching!

[@jackarmstrongiii3669]

I saw a painting tutorial for a Games Workshop WWI British Mk IV. Maybe that's an indicator?

[@JacksLastCracker]

Blue Moon produces 15/18mm WWI figures. Google Old Glory Miniatures.Blue Moon is a part of the Old Glory family.

[@jackarmstrongiii3669]

Thanks Tom, that's good to know! Do you happen to know any intro level solitaire WWII games?

[@JacksLastCracker]

Sorry, but no.

[@NecronautDrummer]

You mention 'old enough' for historicals, but the high school I teach in has an impromptu gaming club where these 15-18 year old kids play Flames of War! Specifically, the Russian Front. They are definitely the exceptions to the rule you prefaced this video with, LOL! Your vids are always a pleasure to watch, Atom!

[@tabletopminions]

It's true, there are always exceptions to the rules. Thanks for watching!

[@lucaswatson1913]

18 and play historical alongside others

[@khitan1326]

A most interesting video. I enjoy hearing other perspectives on our amazing hobby. I started out with historical gaming as a 12 year old because that's all there was in those days. Fantasy and sci-fi didn't come along until later (Dungeons and Dragons, and Laserburn), but this was very much the fringe of miniatures gaming (and somewhat frowned upon). Interestingly, the basics of role playing began to move into historicals, so your Napoleonic officer began to have a character (and possibly his own agenda). The hobby has been much improved with these expanding ideas. I read someones post on FB recently, he was saying he was getting into historicals, having moved from GW games. I was a bit stunned when he described 40K as being mainstream wargaming and historicals as a fringe activity, I always thought of them as the other way around of course. Then I realised that nowadays he is right. Miniatures gaming has come a long way in the five decades I have been enjoying it. And there is room for everybody.

[@tabletopminions]

I very much like your attitude, and I agree. There is room for everybody. Thanks for watching!

[@thelordchancellor3454]

You should look at the game "Crossfire".

[@tabletopminions]

I've heard that from folks before. Maybe I will. Thanks for watching!

[@thelordchancellor3454]

+Tabletop Minions I can't help but watch; your videos are just too good not to.

[@911Paleo]

You started doing painting tutorials and I was wondering if you would ever consider doing one on historical gaming figures like in Muskets and Tomahawks and Black Powder ? I am a retired Marine and like doing the research on the various uniforms and would like to see your work on these figures. I admire your painting skills and really enjoy your videos.

[@tabletopminions]

I'll have to look into it. I might do one for WW2 when I get into Bolt Action / Konflikt '47. Thanks for watching!

[@MightyWolve]

Hail Ceasar is also worth a look!!

[@tabletopminions]

I've heard a bunch about that, too. Thanks for watching!

[@SmittyM14]

The "Battlegroup" rules by Iron Fist Publishing might be something for your group to look at as well. You can use it with any scale but it is geared more towards 15mm or 20mm. Might add a little mix to your Flames of War group while using the same minis. I haven't played it yet but have read through the rules. Looks like a good system.

[@realevilcorgi]

I'm 18 and my thing is alternate history 19th century wargaming, so I guess I'm pretty representative of people my age.

[@emperorgameling5064]

realevilcorgi Dystopian Wars sounds like your thing then, I want to get into it too along with some purely historical stuff

[@jeremyyeargin3773]

I hope I’m not too late to the discussion, but I’ve just recently just gotten into this channel to help me pass the time on a deployment. I was stationed overseas with a German Army (Bundeswehr) Mechanized Infantry Company and one of the guys that I made friends with is into Flames of War. So that started the itch all over again for me. I have ordered from both the FoW side and the Team Yankee side, mostly from Team Yankee. Ive done 1:35 scale armor models and thought it’d be cool trying to get into the 15mm world after first seeing it in high school.

[@N_Sbn_Ur]

I'm 36 now and I love military history since I started to walk and look military movies at 3 years old. Still now this is my passion deep in my soul. Thank you for doing videos like this one.

[@jingokhan]

Oh, man. I made that transition into historical early on. I started 40k when I was 11 and I liked it well enough. I then transitioned to WHFB maybe a year later and loved all the moving parts that just weren't in 40k. Then I discovered Warmaster Ancients, when I was maybe 14, and I've been hooked ever since. The complexity was a bit overwhelming at first, but I loved it all--maneuvering, formations (defensive and attacking), recreating famous historical battles, or just pitting two empires that never actually met against one another. But as you said, there's a bit of an age divide between the fantastic and historical and it greatly affected my experience in historical. I could count the amount of opponents I had on one hand having two severed fingers--not many of the oldbeards wanted to game at the end of the day with someone a fifth their age unfortunately. That was 2004-2005 though. Now it's not so bad--still can't find many players around my age, but that's why I picked up X-Wing. As for historical games, if you dig Saga then probably check out Ronin and/or Muskets & Tomahawks. 1. Ronin is a skirmish game set in the age of the Samurai and it has a neat attack and defend system. 2. Muskets & Tomahawks is also a skirmish game set between the American frontier wars and the American Revolution.

[@enginetruck20]

Uncle Atom, I wish you would touch on historical war gamming a bit more every now and then. Thank you for doing this one however.

[@krystyoursavior]

If you are interested in bigger historical battles at 15mm, a great game to pick up is L'Art de la Guerre. It can also be played in 25-28mm.

[@thattassiewargamer]

I began historical gaming this year with Saga after the TV series Vikings. I now also play Muskets and Tomahawks, Bolt Action and Hail Caesar. The Saga rules are so easy to learn and are great for a newcomer to wargaming.

[@tabletopminions]

I want to look more into those rules. Thanks for watching!

[@brianhowe1982]

I have my dad to thank for starting me in historical wargaming when I was 6. I absolutely loved it. The 17th century is probably my favorite era, but my dad on a shoestring budget managed to introduce my brothers and I into the history and fun of it all. One week we're with Caesar in Gaul, next we're fighting house to house in Stalingrad or fighting against Rommel in North Africa, at some point we ended up holding Rourke's Drift. I'm only 30 but I have noticed the vast majority of historic wargamers are from father's generation. I hope to instill the same love for history and wargaming into my own children.

[@haydenggallen]

Watching this I felt compelled to comment. I'm 28 years old I got into miniatures and wargaming about two years ago and for me it has always been historical. I suppose my lifelong interest in history makes me a special case but I just had to make my presence known! For me it was never an option. Fantasy is cool but I have never felt a strong enough interest to spend money on the miniatures. I am absolutely fascinated by history and how people in the past saw the world, the things they did day by day. Those from the past are the same creatures as us after all. Historical wargaming is like a simulation of the most intense moments of the lives of the people we are directly related to and I feel an adrenaline kick every time I paint a mini that it a representation of an actual culture/person/unit that actually existed. I see fantasy wargamers as brother and sister geeks and fantasy-oriented shops are where I get my supplies. It strikes me as so strange that age has anything to do with interest in history; I had though demand for historical realism was on the rise and more appreciated now more than ever. Anyway, I would say the only reason there are less historical wargamers is because the many young people interested in history like that aren't part of this nerdy subculture. Am I saying they're better than us? Well, yeah. They're probably professors, archaeologists and archivists, too busy banging their way through the Victoria Secret model line-up, making appearances at the most exclusive clubs in sports cars and partying in their penthouse condos.

[@naillpipes8868]

Started with historical games and it is still my main focus, becoming one of those grey haired men. I remember those conventions at the Horticultural Hall in Milwaukee back in the day with massive games put on by Duke Seifried and Ray Johnson. And of course there was Gary Gygax with the beginnings of D&D, which started life as an additional set of rules in the back of a medieval set of wargame rules called Chainmail. Back in those days (mid '70s) none of what your videos cover existed or could even be imagined. If you are looking for innovative historical rule systems, look no farther than anything published by Sam Mustafa at Honour games or any of the Piquet games. I do greatly enjoy your videos and find there is much to be learned about miniature gaming from all genres, cross training so to speak. Keep up the excellent work!

[@raybarron316]

Just getting started in Bolt action. :) Reminders of the Avalon Hill board games days, just with minis. :)

[@The_Shadowy_Mr_Evans]

As far as a gateway, The Black Powder series of games (Black Powder is Napoleonic up to Civil War, Hail Caesar is ancients up to medieval, and Pike and Shotte is in between) is not only written by one of Warhammer's original authors, but basically uses a cleaned up version of the Warmaster system expanded to 28mm. The only issue perhaps being that the games are very focused on "friendly get togethers by likeminded friends" ala Little Soldiers, and don't provide the level of structure of points systems and codexes that modern or younger fantasy players might come to expect.

[@tabletopminions]

I love the idea of "friendly get togethers by likeminded friends" for my hobby. Thanks for watching!

[@countdowntorevolution9986]

Historical Wargamer here (who went the other way and got into Fantasy & Sci-Fi after historical although historical still my main interest):A couple more good "transitional games" into historical might be (both by the same author):Dux Bellorum, which represents Dark Age European battles (Romans, Saxons, Picts etc). Very streamlined and intuitive, with quite a "Fantasy" feel to it, which even extends into optional rules which allow for things like "Priests" "Single Combat Challenge" "Assassination" and so on. Can be played with any scale, but only involves 30-40 miniatures a side, so if you like painting ornate 28mm models you can easily do so for this game (though my armies are 15mm)Then there is Lion Rampant, a fun medieval skirmish game which possesses many of the same qualities as the above, though you will need 40-60 figures per side. I have English and French 100 Years' War retinues using 1/72 plastic models (20mm). The rules can also be pretty easily adapted for outside the Medieval period - Greeks, Romans, Persians etc.There is actually a fantasy variant of this set called "Dragon Rampant" which is also a lot of fun.

[@edwardallen3428]

I was collecting Minitanks and Airfix 1/72 guys as a kid in the '60s and started playing minis games with published rules in 7th grade, and it was a mix of historical, fantasy, & SF from the get go, between playing with a club of adults with varied game tastes and Lou Zocchi's newsprint mail order catalog opening the door to games like Starguard and Alien Space.

[@yorikasudon]

Another Historical game system is Force on Force. Its from Ambush Alley Games and its only the rule set. The miniatures are up for the players to get as it allows for a lot of scales and periods. Tomorrow's War is the scifi version of it aswell.

[@tabletopminions]

I think I own a copy of Tomorrow's War in the basement somewhere. Thanks for watching!

[@walkthebassline]

I just recently picked up some Napoleonic miniatures for Song of Drums and Shakos. It's another nice skirmish game, and you can play pretty much any faction within the Napoleonic Wars or the War of 1812.

[@tabletopminions]

And it's based off of the Song of Blades and Heroes games, which are great. Thanks for watching!

[@jabbamiles]

Sharpe Practice is supposed to be a good large skirmish game for musket era, it also has random activation. Also of course for larger battles the other Warlord rule sets, Black Powder, Pike and Shotte etc. Have some quick to learn core rules with specific period supplements that you can tweak how you want.

[@tabletopminions]

I'll have to check out Sharpe Practice, as well. Thanks for watching!

[@patahern692]

great video, i was lucky enough that my dad gamed napoleonics so we always had thousands of historicals growing up, skirmish is definitely a great way to get into historicals the game systems that you listed were spot on and will most likely be the easiest to find games in, a couple other interesting rules sets are through the mud and blood for ww1 and lion rampant for skirmish medieval, if your looking at diving into horse and musket black powder is really taking off and that rules set gives you so many eras to game from all three of these are 28mm

[@xsieferx6738]

I'm 25 and the last yr or so I've become obsessed with history and learning about pirates and ww1 and the industrial revolution and I've always ALWAYS loved medieval stuff and lately have become enamored with learning about many different medieval wars

[@Deathsquadstudios4]

I got into historical wargaming at about 16. I started out playing World War Two battles, I've never actually played a sci game, but it's fun, I've built a ton of models for gaming.

[@garyarmitage4301]

As an Older Gamer, I can remember back in the late 50's and early 60's when there was no fantasy or sci-fi miniatures everybody played historical. Gary Gygax had a WWII Game called Tractics before D&D. I went from Historical Gaming to 40K Blood Angels. I still don't have a Gray beard. Interesting post.

[@tabletopminions]

That's before my time, but I did meet Gary Gygax once at Gen Con back in the 90s. I thanked him. Thanks for watching!

[@ianconnor6281]

I remember when I was younger I would watch anything on history channel pertaining to world war 2. I started wargaming with Flames of War, and now have branched out into Black Powder rule set.

[@tabletopminions]

There's always an exception to the rule. Thanks for watching!

[@Chekowich]

My first wargame was a historical wargame called Impetus. We used cheap plastic 1/72 miniatures for it. In my opinion a good transitions game into (historical) wargaming is Operation Squad. An army costs around 10$ and has a really good activation system which makes it fun to play, So you can try historical gaming without spending a lot of money on miniatures.

[@PhanthomMaster]

Good afternoon from Schiedam. Great to still have this liveshow during these times. #shelterinhobby

[@billforeman6689]

God its so funny bering around the same age as you and seeing the topics you chose. Micro armor was probably the closest I came to taking the dive in and just like you seeing the "older crowd" playing historicals brings back such nostalgia. Being a D&D guy obviously has shaded me towards sci fi / fantasy but I've felt the pull myself. You should do some bat reps Buddy. It would be fun to see you roll some dice:)!

[@tabletopminions]

Hopefully one day soon I'll start doing some batreps. Thanks for watching!

[@jameswallace3053]

I actually had the opposite. My first wargaming experience was Flames of War. I think that it should be introduced earlier to new wargamers, since you end up getting into the history and stories of the units and areas and events of the time you are playing.

[@KazoogleKoogle]

I got into Flames of War to when I was little and learned the history from the game and putting research into my armies. In fact when ever I had a WW2 unit in my school I never learned anything new and aced all of the tests due to my knowledge from playing the game.

[@tabletopminions]

Interesting. Thanks for watching!

[@mikesmith2905]

We start learning how to do all this when we play as children (humans play for their entire life but adults prefer words such as ‘experiment’, the neural structures used were created during childhood play). Play is greatly facilitated by inspiration (Airfix Magazine was my main source in the 60s and 70s, one guy did an entire battle as a diorama, all using the Airfix Robin Hood and Sheriff of Nottingham sets, it’s now in a museum). Having been inspired one then has to obtain the material to recreate what inspired you and that is the problem. These days you can buy any amount of ‘merchandising’ but ‘toys’ are scarce and good toys are very rare indeed. Most merch is produced to ‘fits the box’ scale so they cannot really be used in combination. A lot of ‘wargame’ stuff is produced in some odd scale so you have to buy from a limited sub-set of manufacturers who are unable to harness scale so they tend to be expensive (generally about two or three times the price of the 20mm sets). Another problem is that wargaming requires ‘counters’ more than ‘models’ and for some reason enlarged heads are part of the ‘style’, so it looks like armies of children fighting it out. Now I am retired I make up sets of ‘toy soldiers’ to give away to less well off kids, for 3-7 year olds I use 54mm or 1:32 and for 7-12 year olds I use 20mm or 1:72-1:76. Thanks to Chinese knock-offs you can get reasonable WW2 figures in 54mm (mostly based on the old Matchbox ranges) and 20mm is by far the most well supplied scale for figures and vehicles (and it is cheap). The three most common requests are World War Two, Knights and Knaves and Sci-Fi and I aim for two armies of about 20 figures in 54mm or 50 in 20mm to which I add vehicles and a lot of ‘scenery’ (houses all have removable roofs so you can put people inside etc.). I base everything on a 4-2 foot space, the size of a dining table or the clear bit of floor in a kids bedroom. Deserts are easy, no hedges, few walls, just a drop-cloth (flesh coloured felt) and lots of hills and little houses. The most common complaint (by far) that I get is from parents: ‘I want my dining room table back’ (muttering about extracting little men from vacuum cleaners comes a close second). To deal with that, if asked, I will get a 4x2 piece of 2inch thick insulation, add flattened out soft drink can metal reinforcing to the corners and cover it in an appropriately coloured felt (no 'texture', toy soldiers are played with individually not on big heavy bases). That can then be lifted off in one go for the meal, and put back again afterwards to continue the play. A typical set, including paints, glues and general materials probably costs me between £35 and £50, say $40-$60 US, about the same as a video game and I generally manage 2-4 a year (more during lockdown obviously). I am putting together a book so I can pop a copy in each set to add all the how-tos to the set-specific notes I provide. It runs counter to most of what I see on youtube re terrain building, I focus on minimum cost, minimum mess, minimum tools and minimum expertise, so a parent can add some hills or trees in an evening (several parents have now got the ‘bug’ as well). The kids play in exactly the same way we did, if they get the chance, the toys get broken, interest wanders and some of the broken bits get rebuilt into more models. To date well over half have developed an interest, of which some are now wargamers (historical in the main). So, if you want to ‘promote the hobby’ use some spare time, old cardboard boxes and cheap packs of soldiers to make up some sets to give away, you can do this for $1 a week or so with a bit of creativity. Then wait about ten to twenty years for that cohort to grow up, get a job and start trying to feed their habit - You will then have a market to support the hobby and you will get all those things you want without having to make them all yourself. Ten years after that they will start buying more of the cheaper stuff to start their own kids off and the cycle will (hopefully) then continue. Imaginative play is crucial to child development (and it is pretty important to adults as well) and any nation that caters well to this will harvest a workforce that is better able to solve real world problems and more articulate, so be a patriot, make up some proper toys for the kids and you are more likely to have a comfortable retirement.

[@IDICBeer]

Nice chat, I enjoyed it whilst painting

[@tabletopminions]

Glad to hear it. Thanks for watching!

[@Yukon5G]

As for WWII skirmish, I can also heartily recommend Chain of Command by Too Fat Lardies. They are excellent rules and you can easily use 15 mm, 20 mm (aka 1/72) or 28 mm figures.

[@tabletopminions]

I love the name of their company. Thanks for watching!

[@gomensnana9169]

The opposite happened for me. As a young child I was infatuated by historical wars. Researched for fun, and went to historical miniature conventions with my grandfather. I loved playing strategy games that I'd make up for my toys and miniatures (family would buy them for me but I could ever appreciate the time that went into them at that age). Then when I got to my early 20s, all I desired were shows, tabletop games, and video games that weren't based on this world's history. The imagination that's only slightly limited by manufactured lore captivates me. Plus it's much more plausible (because it's imaginary) to have any crazy luck scenario play out in a fantasy world than where we actually live. Like when that unit of riflemen kills your tank without a grenade.. guess they hit the cardboard I used when we ran out of metal..

[@tabletopminions]

You're right, it does seem to be opposite, but I'm glad you're enjoying it. Thanks for watching!

[@keithmassey3035]

Strangely I am going the other way. When I started Wargames in the early 70's I used Airfix plastic soldiers which were only available in historical ranges. I have always gamed historically, but recently bought the Warlord book on Konflikt 47 which as you probably know is an extension of Bolt Action set in an alternative history with the US and Britain fighting the Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia. It looks pretty cool and so I think I'll give it a try. I am sure it will appeal to those sci-fi gamers who might want to dip into historical as there are some great troop types...Nazi zombies, US flying soldiers and British robotic troops along with some great "Star Wars" type walkers. You can also use historical weapons and figures too. I think fantasy and sci-fi really took off here in the U.K. with the arrival of Games workshop and the demise of Airfix. Thanks for an interesting video as usual.

[@nicofolkersma2535]

Just started Hail Ceasar. GW has great models, but there is the money issue. Now I can buy a regiment for 27 euro in stead of a character for 30. Plus by the time you have built a space marine army, the rules change and half youre army is either nerfed or gone. Romans never go out of style.