Are Young Voters Staying Liberal Longer? | FiveThirtyEight Politics Podcast

[@genghiscan2918]

"Losing is detrimental to parties, and they tend to adapt" Or claim there was voter fraud and they didn't actually lose. You know, either or.

[@Kyotosomo]

65% of Democrats believe the 2016 election was stolen because of "Russian Hackers" and 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen because of "voter fraud"; you'd have to be completely detached from reality to think that only one side participates in election denial. Both sides are total sore losers and choose to loosen their grip on reality whenever it makes them feel better.

[@rogersmith7396]

The traditional Republican "old white mans party" was going extinct. They had zero interest in poor crackers. They morphed into the poor cracker party (MAGA) to survive. The Rhinos hope to maintain control over MAGA much like German capitalists hoped to maintain control of Hitler. The results have been the same in both instances.

[@josephimperatrice5552]

Donald Trump voters think they are the "silent majority" so they believe they can never lose an election unless The Democratic Party cheats!

[@JB-mf9ob]

When all else fails blame Russia

[@MrMarinus18]

Yeah, I wonder if the republican party might collapse because they are stubbornly refusing to adapt. Instead they are trying to ban books, attack progressive values and do whatever they can to stop the leftwards shift.

[@JDHutchison]

One of the big factors of the generational political gap that wasn’t touched on much is the different experiences Millenials (and Gen Z) are seeing from an economy perspective. Millenials are growing up in a very different environment than the prior few generations - one in which the downfalls of runaway capitalism are much more apparent. Wages are lower, costs are higher, and the wealth gap is larger than its ever been. I think the fact that Millenials are hitting their 40s, and are the least financially secure of any recent generation prior says a lot. Things the left is offering, like socialized healthcare, student debt relief, or redistribution of taxes (to name a few) become much more of a political driving factor. Much of what I think drives political evolution to the right is typically financial and social security, of which the younger generations are not experiencing to the same degree as a whole.

[@gob384]

Younger millennials and Gen Z (like myself) also grew up in a time where we saw the legalization of marriage equality around/ before we had our sexual awakenings. We grew up around discussions of acceptance and love. We/Our friends are able to be openly LGBT. When Desantis makes laws that make it harder to access life saving medicine (HRT), he isn't attacking 'Transgender ideology' he is attacking my friend Kayden. When Abbot bans abortion access, that destroys our plans to have kids because complications can now lead to death or lawsuits. It is 'our parents' generation that kicks out our friends for being gay. It is our generation that supports our friends. Then on economics Bush sending the US into a 2 trillion dollar war and the collapse of the economy, Obama helping stabilize the economy, then Trump pumping 1 trillion a year into the stock market and having a poor COVID response, Biden stabilizing the economy from there. The GOP goes after student debt relief, but not PPP loans. The GOP strips away worker protections like a 10 minute water break every 4 hours for construction workers. The GOP denies the impacts of the climate crisis. The GOP tries to push religion to people who are less religious. And with access to the internet, we see how other places and nations implement policies that do help young people. There is not a good reason outside of parental influence for most Young people to vote GOP. Granted, the DNC is ineffective and unmotivating. But when our lives are being directly attacked with these policies, it is hard to ignore.

[@rwrunning1813]

"Social" stability and security are a big issue for me. Suburbanization, the internet, and now remote work feed anxiety and keep people holed up at home. Knowing that, I can try to resist the trend, but there's only so much I can do. Most of my friends moved out of town and only a few coworkers live near me.

[@josephimperatrice5552]

​@@gob384 Charlie Kirk has been an epic failure in successfully converting mass numbers of Generation Z voters into The Donald Trump Cult. Charlie Kirk gets paid half a million dollars a year by Turning Point USA to be extremely incompetent at his job!

[@detectivewiggles]

*not experiencing at all--we literally cant even afford to have kids because THEY STOLE EVERYTHING FROM US IN EXCHANGE FOR CHEAP JUNK FROM WALMART

[@vespuccini]

@@rwrunning1813i'd say cost of living and housing near high paying jobs is affecting social stability than remote work. We should have a sub-40 hr work week, and more days off to match the europeans, especially considering American productivity levels. The old labor system is collapsing, and the flaws we see now are just the late results of the old system.

[@basoon87]

I think part of the puzzle here is that a lot of "becoming more conservative as you age" isn't necessarily a process of people moving towards more and more conservative policies as they age, so much as the policies that they already support more and more becoming the policies of the political right as the Overton window shifts. For example, if there was someone who supported Gay liberation policies 15 years ago, but has an issue with extending those policies to the transgender community, that person would be seen as firmly progressive 15 years ago, but much more of centrist now (on this issue anyway), despite not changing their views at all. Usually we would expect the parties to also change with the times to take advantage of these shifts, but the Republican Party's problem recently is that they have been embracing reactionary hard right culture war policies to rally their base. So rather than picking up voters who, for instance, support gay rights but don't know how they feel about the "transgender issue", they've pushed away the majority of Americans who see gay liberation as both a good thing and a settled issue, even if they don't align perfectly with progressives policies. In other words, the GOP is no longer a conservative party In the sense that they want to conserve the status quo. They are more and more a reactionary party that wants to upend some pretty major aspects of the current status quo in favor of a political vision the majority of Americans don't actually agree with. Which is why young voters since 2006 haven't exactly flocked to them, even when they start having kids and taking out mortgages 15 years later.

[@nolang1]

also there isn't much evidence for individual voters moving any one predictable way as they age. This became 'conventional wisdom' from studies that looked at blocks of voters, but they were actually just capturing that people who live to be 70 or whatever advanced age are more likely to be richer and therefore more conservative.

[@ged424]

I agree with all of this, but I'd suggest that both parties have moved to cater to the more extreme flanks of their party. Whether it be isolationism or climate change on the right or gender affirming care or student debt or healthcare on the left, both parties offer significantly more partisan platforms than they used to. I suspect that millennials will buck the trend to the extent that the Overton window moves rightward, but I don't think it's in evidence that the GOP's rightward shift has outpaced the Dems' leftward one. In fact, If I had to allege any movement at all on the proverbial flag in the middle of the tug of war rope, I'd contend the middle of the struggle has moved slightly leftward.

[@nates9105]

yup. I'm more progressive as I age. The more I've become aware of the 50 years of corruption, removal of rights, bolstering of the rich bloating from trickle down economics, and how fascist the GOP are - the more I grow progressive. They threaten democracy because they don't like loosing power and money.

[@rogersmith7396]

They see retirement coming and worry about living on a fixed income. They become more expense and tax adverse.

[@joshualaskowski9196]

This comment, yes. This is what is happening. People don't move right as they age. They look farther right because society always progresses (to the left.) Cultures that don't move left (no matter how slowly) end in some way or another often from a lack of relevancy, being out competed, ect... I suspect that the republican party collapses within 10 years. Many Republicans moving to the Democratic party "jumping ship" to save their careers and most Dems becoming the embodiment of status qou (as if they are not already) welcoming a less radical base. This already happening as most independents are conservative leaning aka they dont want to be called a republican. Again why the "left" party is so happy to play ball with conservative policies because it is a safe winning strategy when facing off against hard right reactionaries like Trump et. Al. This will likely result in a "new party" leftists becoming politically relevant, pushing for progress and change. If not, the USA stagnates, and nose dives itself in the ground. Can't have a functional military, government, or economy if the vast majority of people are desperate, sick, underdeveloped, and upset.

[@beccapeck5102]

61 F and 60 M, married. We started out as R voters. Perot was the turning point to the left. We've voted predominantly D after since the 1992 election. As we age, my hubs and I continue to push left. I now volunteer amd donate to the Dems.

[@beccapeck5102]

2000 SCOTUS ruling on presidential election Iraq war Recession Kansas tax experiment Medicaid Expansion & lack of R lies & gaslighting Trump & Maga Each of the above we laid at the R feet, pushing us left with the Ds.

[@beccapeck5102]

Many prior Rs I know fled anf continue to flee the R party. Half went D (mod Rs), half went U (disgusted conservatives). That leaves mostly MAGA. Yes, there are those who stay R to help the primary.

[@synchronium24]

I'm curious, what people or events changed your mind?

[@beccapeck5102]

@synchronium24 i was sick of both parties. It started with anger and lying when Clinton was in office. My inlaws, solid Rs, insisted Clinton and company trashed the Whitehouse as they left office. That didn't happen. I was really disturbed SCOTUS stepped in and wouldn't allow FL to complete the recount in 2000. Is it possible Bush actually won? Sure. But we didn't get to actually find out. They should have allowed it to play through. The Bush administration lying about Iran. I started seeing more and more of the R anger and the lies about everybody that didn't agree with them. Telling people if they didn't vote R they couldn't be a Christian. Just the intense anger that just grew! The continued lies during Obama. The ONLY thing they could find to complain about was his tan suit. Every other president, including Ds had some kind of scandle during their presidency. They ONLY thing they could find on Obama was his suit. At that point, I stopped watching FOX. Could no longer stomach the lies and anger. Brownback in Kansas wrecked our economy and schools with their tax experiment. Businesses not paying taxes. That left the people to cover everything. Property taxes and sales tax skyrocketed. I noticed the R lies continued and got more intense. I paid attention to info from both sides. If one side said something, I wanted to know input from the other side. Then, I paid attention to what actually happened. I met various people over the decades. Ds are all around nice people. Kind people that care. Yes, there are nice Rs. But mostly they are angry, complain about everybody else, insist if you don't go to their church or believe their God you are going to hell. Just a lit of anger and complaining. I got really tired of it. Trump and MAGA have just exploded the anger and lies. It's been interesting that Ds will debate and want to discuss facts. The Rs just scream, lie, and name call. I'm I terested in a good debate. I want to know why someone actually believes what they think. Hearing name calling, screaming, and lying is not debate and isn't facts. It got really frustrating. The Rs lie and blame and lie and blame more. The Ds want to debate. But there isn't anybody to debate with them. The Ds go by the law and rule of the book. Rule of law goes so slow. I started looking at the platforms and reality. Rs SAY they are about rule of law, but no, everybody that cheats in elections are Rs. Rs say they are about small government and low taxes. Yet, every time Rs are in charge the budget goes to hell, huge deficits, over spending, and the people pay for it. Reagan increased deficit. Clinton balanced and gave it to Bush Jr as a surplus. Bush racked up the deficit. Obama slashed it again. Trump exploded it. Biden dropped it again. Yes, the Ds pass laws that the people benefit from. Ds find ways to pay for it. Ds don't add more. Rs say they are about life. Yet, they refuse to pass Medicaid Expansion. Even during a pandemic. Rs insist no abortions yet, abortions when a woman has an ectopic or are hemorrhaging or have other life threatening conditions. It's so crazy to deny that an abortion NEVER saves a woman's life. The Rs insist a baby must be born because it's a life. Yet, if it's premature and needs 3 months NICU when Mom doesn't have insurance. Too bad. WTH?! Rs don't want to educate, feed, cloth, or house children. They just want them born. If you teach a person to fish, they feed themselves. But not gonna happen. The top 10 states who depend on government "handouts" are all Rs. The top 10 states who give more to the government than they receive are all Ds. Ds want to help people have a better life. Ds are all-around nicer people. Ds tend to be more down to earth and more welcoming. Rs tend to be more stand-off-ish and unapproachable. Rs tend to assume everyone that receives help from the government is a taker, low life, drug addict, or alcoholic. Sometimes people need a little help learning to fish. And the logic! OMG! Rs have lost it on logic. It's maddening. If we have a nice solid debate where you tell me logical reasons why you think an issue needs to be solved in a given way, OK, you may sway me. But insisting the only reason we can't have reasonable gun laws is "a slippery slope." That's not logic. I think the reason Rs think Ds want to take guns away rather than reasonable gun laws is because the Rs mission since 1973 with abortion was to chip away at abortion rights until they were all abolished. On abortion, did you know abortion rates peaked in 1992 at 1.5 million a year. Every Dem in office dropped abortion rates while every R increased them. Before Roe was overturned US was down to a half mill a year. Clinton dropped the number, Bush increased, Obama lowered, Trump increased. What are the Ds doing? Access to Healthcare, education, and birth control. If the Rs were really about lowering unwanted preg rates, they would agree with Medicaid Expansion, birth control, and education. Also on abortions. I had a miscarriage when I was 23. Insurance didn't want to pay for a "spontaneous abortion" because they didn't pay for abortions. ALL miscarriages are spontaneous abortions. Did you know a stillbirth is also a spontaneous abortion? What is a 40 week abortion? A spontaneous abortion. A stillbirth. That mother is devastated. Yet the Rs high jacked that families tragedy insisting Ds are baby murderers at 40 weeks. THIS issue REALLY gets me mad. It's more R lies just to fire up their base. I believe in God. I'm not going to shove it down someone else's throat. I'm a calm, kind, laid back, logical person. Many Rs are mean amd are toxic. I don't have any interest in voting for any R ever again. Many of my friends who vote for Rs believe the lies. When I show them the list of things the Ds have given our society (without telling them it was the Ds), they agree with the platform. Oh and voting rights. If a candidate or party can't win on ideas but had to disinfranchize voters to win, that's cheating. Get better ideas. Nope, I'm now a solid D to my bone marrow. Rs need to come up with better ideas, care about people, tell the truth, stand up for law and order, logic, etc to ever win my vote and support again. Thank you for asking and for your interest.

[@ilfaitfroid9739]

Same in our household - we see what a shit show is being left for our kids and grand kids. We're supporting candidates and causes in hopes of turning the ship around.

[@ProudAmericanValdez]

I'm 46 and was a Republican for my early life, but when Bush v. Gore happened I realized my views on the environment and foreign policy made it hard for me to continue being a Republican. With the Trump administration and absolute devolution of the GOP, I'll never vote Republican in any meaningful election again.

[@jannichi6431]

Only one Party LEFT!🗳️

[@j.f.fisher5318]

I wish I'd woke up in 2000. I'd have so much less shame amd self-loathing for letting them trick me into believing their platform of lies stacked on lies so long. I'm glad I woke up in 2015 when AlphaGo proved that in a world wher intelligence can be mass-produced capitalism could only benefit billionaires. So at least I don't have _that_ shame to deal with.

[@msdd7610]

@googlenazicompany5935 hell no, just makes republican victory more likely and he's committed serious tax fraud

[@dcman4902]

I feel the same way

[@johnstallings4049]

​. The most unstable spoiler EVER! 😅❄️🌎❄️

[@thetoastisburntgmail]

Oldest millennial checking in. The insanity of the DJT era destroyed any chance of me ever voting for the GOP, and the GOP's inability to divorce themselves from him and his insane Jan6th base will keep it that way. Even if Trump has a heart attack tomorrow, DeSantis will step in and he is arguably worse.

[@anthonybeers]

With you on this one. friend.

[@THATBOISHAD]

The GOP is way past Trump on extremism. We are having debates and laws over cultural things that have been settled for 40 years because of them. That's a tell. Because it shows how well Biden is handling the economy that they have the energy to start a culture war

[@boydstephensmithjr]

80-born here. The party has to quit vilifying LGBTQIA+ persons before I even consider them. People I love fall into more than one of those categories. Also, denying women control over their own uteruses is also a blocker for me. Maybe there is a Republican-esque party that could attract my vote, but the current party would need to rebuild from their first plank, I think.

[@Skumm93]

@@boydstephensmithjr I think, that there is a very good chance that if the Republicans are slowly pressured out, that in their absence the Moderate/Centrist Democrats become the new standard of Conservatism and they schism from Progressives who become the new Liberalism as we adjust our value system to the modern era, just like has always happened, as progress moves, certain ideals get lost.

[@stiggsmasta]

Its shown how insane and evil the democrat party is. Your personal hate is clouding reality

[@Korvilon]

As a millennial, I've only gotten more liberal as I've gotten older. If anything I went from being a conservative to being in the "far left". Which I'd say is more of a centrist stance when actually put on a global setting of politics. American politics are way too far right.

[@rogersmith7396]

Yes the right wingers destroyed the center. We need it back to survive.

[@That-Guy_]

Me too. We need people like Bernie, Porter and AOC in charge. People before companies.

[@Snp2024]

​@@That-Guy_ AOC? Wtf

[@rwrunning1813]

Why would I suddenly decide hard-working people don't deserve a living wage? Why would I suddenly decided it isn't okay to be gay? Why would I suddenly decide corruption and greed are good, actually? Why would I suddenly decide the government should promote a particular faith? Why would I suddenly decide that it's actually fine that the wildfires get larger each year? It doesn't seem likely.

[@MichaelJohnson-vi6eh]

The older you get the more likely you are to self sort. Your neighbors are like you. Your church is like you. You listen to the same radio stations and TV programs. Social life for older people can tend to be lots of nostalgia and then you have lots of money and there are people who want to scare you into donating to their cause.

[@Colt-yx2ow]

Generally as you get older your scope of the world gets smaller in a sense. You're worried about you and yours. At least with the boomers that's how it worked. They got homes and wealth and they gave up the idea of taxing fairly

[@gamervox1707]

@@MichaelJohnson-vi6eh You think Church have power over the least worshiping generation after many of them become Trump cults? ha ha ha

[@rogersmith7396]

Yes. My position on LBGTQ is it does'nt affect me so why not mind my own business. I don't care what people do in privacy for the most part. Its not my business.

[@imperialmotoring3789]

Why would I suddenly decide I want activist teachers to show pornography to my children? Why would I suddenly want my property taxes doubled so I can pay for the illegals? Why would I suddenly decide that the government can tell me what kind of energy I am allowed to use? Why would I suddenly decide the government fly so called "pride" flags at government buildings? Why would I suddenly decide that it's ok for China to bribe presidents? Why would I decide that suddenly I need to have immense guilt for being White? Why would I suddenly decide that we do not need to manage our forests to maintain natural wildfires?

[@jonathanlax734]

One datapoint that helps to explain why 18 - 29 year old have moved and stayed on the portward side of the politics: take a look at homeownership, which is at historic lows for this generation and is a real motive for becoming conservative.

[@rogersmith7396]

Yes its long been recognized that property ownership leads to increased conservatism. That is the basis for the Federal government being involved in home loans. Once again the Repubs are their own worst enemy by impoverishing millions of people and sending them to the left. Of course they also plan to prevent them from voting. Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.

[@Hession0Drasha]

It's even worse in the uk 😮‍💨 our mortgages aren't often fixed, for more than 5 years. And half of the value of the house is just debt.

[@tylerleggett5088]

Im 34 and grew up with john Stewart and Colbert. I think the daily show and Colbert report did a great job highlighting the bs of both parties, but overall definitely made me more liberal and forever changed the way I viewed issues

[@beccapeck5102]

Same

[@DemonDante1000]

Ditto

[@panda-ep6xo]

Your views should never be done changing imo

[@jhonklan3794]

I think both were terrible and very dishonest. I am too young to have watched either, but look at Jon Stewart's "The problem with white people".

[@beccapeck5102]

@jhonklan3794 not so. If you are hearing this, you may want to try a better news source.

[@timlinator]

56 and independent over 30 years. Voted Perot twice 92 & 96. Leaned R until Bush then leaned D and now with trump only D.

[@imperialmotoring3789]

I also voted Perot. Voted McCain and Romney only because they were running against Obama, never voted for either Bush, and voted Trump and will vote Trump again. Deep Southside Chicago here. The Democrats have destroyed my city.

[@timlinator]

@googlenazicompany5935 I’m no kid. 56 years old and I used to think that but no more. Republicans are fascist. Democrats center right.

[@nearn8517]

@googlenazicompany5935 The two parties aren't the same. Corrupt in their inner core, yes, but the same? Republicans are very clearly worse.

[@marciaa.parker9122]

Young GenX here. My daughter has less rights than I did when I was 18. The Republicans are regressive and their moves towards Christian Nationalism is alarming. I used to be a split ticket voter. Now I am a straight ticket Democrat voter.

[@rogersmith7396]

You should know the vast majority of Repubs have no interest in religion and don't believe in God no matter what they say, to lead people around by their noses. Its the party of hipocracy. Repubs believe in money. End of line.

[@edwing8895]

What less rights does she have? FYI abortion is MURDER!

[@arihananelsonbwy7470]

Forced birth is a war crime.not donating an organ isn't murder. And bodily antonomy is a HUMAN right

[@cogitoergosum9069]

​@@edwing8895And you're murdering my faith in humanity, so I guess it balances out

[@thewingedhussar4188]

​@@edwing8895tell that to the women who are dying on your religious alter. Who can be saved but you deny them that because of your twisted religious beliefs. No one is telling you to have a abortion. So quite pretending your God and holier then thou and demand others kill their wives just to satisfy your religious itch.

[@jamesmccubbins2122]

I'm 29 and I went from identifying as a Democratic Party voter to identifying as a Democratic - Socialist Progressive. Moving further to the left sometimes makes me dislike Democratic Party candidates when they're too far towards the center or the right... If anything I'd think younger generations moving away from the Democratic Party might be giving some interviewers a concept that they're becoming "more conservative" when, for me at least, I sometimes won't vote for a Democrat if they're too centrist.

[@Northcountry1926]

🎯🎯🎯

[@d_dave7200]

Yes, this

[@masonm600]

Does this control for finances? We also used to assume people have more money as they get older.

[@paulhopton9942]

Excellent point! Millenials were struggling more in their 20's and early 30's than any generation in a long time. Pay was stagnant for a long time until the last couple years. Upward mobility has been on on the downturn in the USA since at least 1980, if not 1975, but it really hit a wall in 2006-2007. That is changing now, but I agree with the assertion that the longer you subscribe to a particular ideology, the less likely you will change to a different one.

[@Ryguy-ud6dt]

With right-wing religious organizations shaping GOP messaging and policies, I would suspect that the younger generations will continue to lean liberal.

[@josephimperatrice5552]

Also the racism, xenophobia, homophobia, transphobia, and anti-semitism coming from The MAGAtard Party is not going to help them convert mass numbers of Generation Z voters to their political tribe!

[@stephenanderson1594]

The Dobbs decision alone will have Republicans on Election Night 2024 stunned like what did we just do. Also Gen Z is very ethnically diverse and pro-LGBTQ so the culture wars are losing GOP votes for years to come among young people not of voting age yet.

[@ShinjiKataoka]

💯

[@chasecomfort3940]

Can't blame them for not wanting to conserve the status quo when it's not been great for them.

[@Ugh-Fudge_Bwana]

"Fuck you, got mine" politics doesn't work when we never got ours.

[@imperialmotoring3789]

Growing up in the wealthiest nation in the world not good enough for them?

[@chasecomfort3940]

@@imperialmotoring3789 Not if they aren't seeing a cut

[@Alltime2050]

Boomers were manipulated by a generation of grown ups from the 1940s and 50d who controlled the economy and determined to shut the Youth Movement down. Before conservatives called their war against the rest of society a culture war, it was a war against what they called the youth culture, or youth movement. They made sure that no long haired, peace loving, tree hugging do gooders would work for them. A lot of boomers believed they could compromise their beliefs in order to get that job but most just ended up buying themselves a lot of grownup toys reward themselves for the sacrifices they’d been forced to make. Many of them just dropped out of paying attention to politics, kept their heads down and did what they were told. The few that continued the rebellion became stuck in the 60s. The Boomer’s could have been the generation that saved the future but the old Con’s beat them into submission and many Gen X never even tried to rebel . Conservatives are trying to repeat their success on Gen Z except old Cons don’t have the economic power they once had and their failure to address the existential threat of climate change is too obviously stupid for the younger generations to ignore.

[@Apollo580]

@@imperialmotoring3789 **wealthiest nation for the rich... Most of us in our generation don't see that wealth.

[@ohnonomorenames]

Conservatives tend to oppose wealth redistribution. Typically as people age the increase their wealth and so tend to become less agreeable to wealth redistribution. The millennial generation has not really experienced the same wealth growth as previous generations. The conservation and concentration of wealth that conservative polices championed has resulted in a generation entering middle age ether relying on generational wealth or locked out of wealth accumulation. Millennials still face many of the problems they were dealing with in there 20s as they approach their 40s. They don't want to conserve the status quo because for them the status quo suck. Ironically, the conservatives will shriek about the debt being left to the next generation to pay. Is it because they are intent on making sure that the next generation will have no money to pay it with?

[@paulhopton9942]

I went in greater depth commenting to someone else, but YEAH, millenials had the most stagnant income growth in their 20's and 30's than any generation in many decades. They are interested in personal income growth rather than welth protection, so no matter what their positions on culture war issues, they want more left-leaning economic policies.

[@rogersmith7396]

No conservatives love wealth distribution. They take it from the poor and give it to the rich. They believe the poor have no business having money and only the wealthy should run things. That is a fundamental Republican belief.

[@macmcleod1188]

Yes but conservatives abandoned the bottom 80% and really only "preserve wealth" for people making over $400,000 per year. Literally the top 1%.

[@macmcleod1188]

@paulhopton9942 thing is, national health care is very good for small business creation and very good for corporate competitiveness against corporations in the two dozen 1st world nations with national health care.

[@j.f.fisher5318]

Exactly this. Worse is the looming catastrophe of AI. It seems very unlikely to me that it's purely coincidental that 2015 was both the year that it was proven that AI could explode in capability through machine learning and the year that a democratic socialist became a contender for major party presidential nomination.

[@pbarnz5013]

Age doesn't really have a bearing on political affiliation, the key difference is education. There's a reason that GOP states are banning books, taking control of the reproductive rights of the poor, and generally restricting education.

[@ethanstump]

and as we learn more as a society, how does that affect what we teach in schools? even if your pointing to education, theirs still an age component to that.

[@GZXC993]

These were two amazing guests. They were fun and informative. Hope we get to hear more from them

[@burntfrootloop4073]

Late 90s/ Gen Z baby here. What the GOP has become under Trump and MAGA has cemented me in never voting Republican. If I really dislike the Dem candidate, I will vote 3rd party.

[@paulhopton9942]

You sound exactly like my son and literally ALL the Gen Z people I know (his friends and my nieces and nephew). You will save this country, if it is not too late.

[@c.f.okonta8815]

Liberal snowflake

[@rogersmith7396]

I would like to see a Biden/West primary. It would scare the hell out of the DNC. I would guess 40% for West.

[@fuckTrump-v7j]

Third party is throwing your vote away and helping the Republican. For all their problems, Dems are your ONLY hope.

[@barbarapascoe2062]

liberals are not "moving" if it means that conservatives have actually moved so much further "right" that even if young voters as they age don't even have to move to not be as "liberal" as the current "liberal" . so helpful to understand the voting group.

[@synchronium24]

My understanding is that the idea of "people moving to the right as they age" has always been a false conclusion on account of younger generations being more liberal. 538 seems to think it's true though, so I'd be interested to see what data they base that on. I think people might become more pragmatic about what change is achievable as they age, but that's very different from advocating for conservative policies.

[@TedApelt]

It is not just conservatives that have moved so much further "right", it is the whole country - which has gone very extreme right. One of the most "left" politicians we have, Bernie Sanders, would be center-right in most European countries.

[@Energetiker]

@@synchronium24 You are right. People on the whole average of all people do not move much. You basically form your political values in your 20s and early 30s and stay that way. But every new cohort of citizens starts where here predessors have left off and they don't appreciate social progress the same way - so they go a step further. The older citizens adapt slower - but on average they move with the society - but parties adapt very fast. In most countries conservative parties simply overtake older citizens in progressivity and become electable, while progressive parties move with the speed of younger generations and fall off with growing age of voters. The USA is a special case right now. US conservatives have simply become fascists - they are very similar to the NSDAP or the PNZ (the italian fascist party back in the day) in the mid 1920s. But fascism is not conservative, it is as equally transformative and revolutionary as far left movements. Give it 10 more years and Republicans will be a copy of the NSDAP in the early to mid 1930s. And everybody shall prey, that they get destroyed before they evolve into fascism of the 1940s.

[@Kyotosomo]

@@TedApelt You are completely detached from reality if you think Bernie Sanders would be "center-right" in Europe. He kept calling the Scandinavian countries socialist (these countries are as liberal as it gets in Europe) and multiple of their leaders rebuked him and implied he's a radical idiot. Whilst the Democratic party used to be to the right of the center of European politics, studies clearly show that around 2012 the Democratic party finally passed to the left of it and due to rapid radicalization as of 2022 they are now far to the left of the European center. Go see how many left leaning parties in Europe believe in gender transition surgeries on children or abortion up to the point of birth; spoiler alert it's virtually none of them. You can cherry pick a few issues like Healthcare or Guns where Democrats are to the right of Europe, but by in large they are to the left. Also America by in large is not moving to the right, Independents have moved a bit to the left and studies show (for example Pew) that whilst Republican politicians have become more radical, when it comes to the voters themselves it's the Democratic party that has DRASTICALLY radicalized (whereas the Republicans have roughly stayed the same since around the year 2000 and if it appears otherwise it's just because their alt-right fringe has become more vocal and the news media spends way more time focusing on them than the rest of the party the same way conservatives media does this with the left wing fringe) and this is obvious if you just look at both parties' change in platform over the past decade using The Wayback Machine. It gets annoying seeing people call anything to the right of marxism "far right" it's just not true. Sucks being a moderate these days we're deeply dissatisfied with how annoying both parties have become.

[@barbarapascoe2062]

@@synchronium24 said much better than I

[@lugano1999]

I am 69 and have voted D since 1972 (when I voted for McGovern). Reagan pushed me farther to the left as I saw him as criminally negligent in re the AIDS crisis, and, by decimating social services, flooded the streets of America's cities with homeless (Thatcher did EXACTLY the same thing in the UK). Reagan also exacerbated the draining of wealth from the working class and middle class to the already wealthy and the big corporations. And, the GOP continues to ramp this up, gaslighting those two classes to continually vote against their own interests. And given the chronically weak messaging of the Democratic party, they have been allowed to do so with impunity,

[@rogersmith7396]

Don't forget arms for contras. Clearly an impeachable offense. Voodoo economics.

[@ehutch79]

Reminder, the phrase 'as you get older, you get more conservative' means you start putting that bonus into a 401k, instead of throwing a kegger. Not that you get more right wing.

[@Jesayou]

Exactly more responsible, not changing my core beliefs.

[@nolang1]

it really means that you can't get a survey response from a dead person, and richer people who are already more likely to be conservative are also more likely to live to old age.

[@belkyhernandez8281]

Yeah. All sorts of nonsensical interpretations going on.

[@rogersmith7396]

Whats "a bonus"?

[@josephimperatrice5552]

​@@belkyhernandez8281 Yeah a 25 year old for example in 2023 who is pro-same sex marriage is not all of a sudden going to become anti-same sex marriage 10 years from now in 2033 when she or he is 35 years old. So what the hell do the MAGAtards mean by they will become Conservatives when they get older?

[@yvtvdehvyvyde]

It seems to me like millennials and gen Z are abandoning liberalism for more left wing ideologies. I'm 28 and almost none of my friends still support democrats. They either move left to socialism, anarchism, ect... or a few turn far right or towards the libertarians. Liberalism has lost its standing in our generation.

[@kyleellis1825]

Because Liberalism is the status quo now. Republicans are really the liberals at "liberals" at this point trying to upend sociatal norm.

[@Eldeecue]

The thing is....voters don't "get more conservative" as they age. They very, very much stay with what was fairly progressive during the time of their youth. What is considered "progressive" is what changes.

[@jacobunderwood4957]

I don't like casting predictions, but it seems obvious to me that the GOP will be the third party by the end of my lifetime (I'm 36). I fear for America if it isn't by then.

[@rogersmith7396]

I am hoping the GOP and Trump will be wiped out in 2024 and will fail as a national party. Go the way of the Whigs.

[@covfefe1787]

the third parties win elections like in Europe 20% for the AFD which is hard right in Europe polling as high as the ruling socialist party 20% in France the third party National Rally is bound to win election in France in 2027 be careful what you wish for. once the Republican party is eliminated new Populist parties will come and and gather 50% of the vote within 10 years displacing the 2 party system of center left and center right parties. Republicans are still center right compared to Europes Populists.

[@BRM202]

I started off my early 20's voting primarily for conservatives. As Ive experienced the real world and now have a diverse group of friends. I find myself voting for democrats from time to time.

[@avacadomangobanana2588]

Sounds like you’re still voting against your own interests

[@THATBOISHAD]

​@@avacadomangobanana2588 Yeah. He is. I can't find a "conservative" to explain what it means. The definition I did find left me more confused because I couldn't find any "conservatives" actually representing "conservatism.

[@rogersmith7396]

Republicanism is always about "feel good". Like a Clint Eastwood movie. Someone does something you don't like so send in the Army. Put the trillion dollar bill on the cuff. Now you "feel good". But here comes the bill. Oh no evil Dems want to raise my taxes. If the bill had to be paid before sending in the Army there would be no forever war and the maiming and death of countless Americans. Also the military budget would shrink providing tax relief. Republicans are their own worst enemy and it will always be so.

[@IanZainea1990]

24:38 This doesn't apply to everyone, but there's at least a chunk of millennials (and maybe more so than older generations) who are mad about how taxes get spent, instead of being mad about taxes. if the distinction makes sense.

[@ken_in_atx9619]

It doesn’t help that Biden is over 80. The Democrats need to field a national candidate that is younger. Older politicians on the left need to step aside!

[@THATBOISHAD]

It's because of Joe Biden s generation of both sides that we have to be subject to this. It's not right or left. It's young and old. Republicans have mostly old people too. I think my 12 year old nephew is more mature than the whole Republican presidential line up.

[@altosack]

Biden is not on the left, nor are most Democratic Party leaders. But I agree that older Democrats need to step aside.

[@marrowkaiproductions7053]

Biden is a Right-Wing Conservative

[@Alltime2050]

@@altosackStill better than a cult of liars.

[@Alltime2050]

@googlenazicompany5935 Throwing your vote a way is a vote for the cult. Either figure out who the real enemy is or stay out of it.

[@geraldmeehan8942]

I'm 64 and would NEVER vote Republican

[@latriciacagle4873]

65 y/o and my views have grown more progressive as I’ve gotten older. However, I’ve gotten more pragmatic as well.

[@sollamander2206]

Even if they move right over time, I think millennials born from 85-93 are going to be a particularly liberal cohort, kind of like the late boomers who came of age in the late 60s

[@Dragonite43]

I'm born in 1993, and I agree.

[@rogersmith7396]

Letting the planet burn down is not a conservative position. Forever war is not a conservative position. Advocating a declining birth rate is not a conservative position. Forcing people into crime due to lack of money is not a conservative position. Its interesting that conservatives want to imprison everyone until they need to raise taxes to build more jails. Then they get off the train.

[@daibar]

The most frustrating part of this conversation is the failure to distinguish between talk vs action, for both Democrats and Republicans alike.

[@nates9105]

Hell actually you know why people feel that we move more left? It isn't that we moved but the actual issue is that Democrats and GOP actually more to the right; this has been the issue since the 70s because it was easier, and profitable, to become GOP light. Both parties shift further Authoritarian. GOP right now are more fascist and willing to topple democracy just to solidify power and gain money.

[@KeeperOfTheSevenKeys.]

Forget "staying liberal" anecdotally I and many others I know have moved left with time. "liberal" is now to our right.

[@silver3981]

The idea that people "grow more conservative" with age has always been fallacious, even before now. It assumes a general rightward shift in political demeanor and values as time goes on, which just doesn't happen. What happens is that people who are stubborn *stay* stubborn. The world moves on and they don't. Their conservatism is a relative thing. A more accurate way to view it is that the world inevitably trends toward progress, save for a few stubborn pockets of people.

[@covfefe1787]

thats not happening. Gen Z is more conservative than millennials particularly young working class white people who overall are right wing populist in nature are getting more popular.

[@TedApelt]

Trump's troubles may help him win the primary, but could doom him in the final.

[@rogersmith7396]

What kind of person votes for a career criminal? Answer, another career criminal. Be advised that millions of Americans are criminals and only obey laws when there is a cop watching them. I live in Trumpville and its the truth. Why do you think they love guns so much? They know they are surrounded by other criminals and they have intentionally underfunded the police. Its truth.

[@johns3318]

That’s the establishment’s whole plan

[@ricucci-hillmusic]

Millennial here, I used to be really right wing before I went to college. As I got more education I moved from tea party to libertarian to democrat to democratic socialist, which is what I identify as now. For me, it's kind of out of survival that I get more progressive. As a queer person, as somebody who has student debt, as somebody who has a husband who has health conditions, as somebody who just generally wants the best for those around me, I cannot sit by and let the right wing take us back to the 1950's or 40's or whenever they think America was "great." Especially as a queer person, when I am told that America used to be great I ask, "When? When was it great and why? Back when sodomy laws were a thing? Back when we were dying of AIDs and the government did nothing? Back when you could legally discriminate against us?" So unless there's a radical change in the right wing, which at this point would take a total dismantling of the republican party in favor of a more centrist party, I don't see any way I could ever support them.

[@anthonybeers]

I moved left after Trump and Covid proved that the Republican Party is completely incompetent.

[@avacadomangobanana2588]

They already proved that. They just proved it to you

[@rogersmith7396]

They are intentionally incompetent. Never forget Repubs always have a plan to acheive their goals. They will say and do anything to dupe the voter. None of them believe in the BS they put out on a daily basis. Thats strictly for your benefit. The party of cynicism. They want your money.

[@Northcountry1926]

👍🏼👍🏼

[@ramblinbananas888]

Im 35, US Navy veteran, from West Virginia and Ive never voted for a republican.

[@Ivashanko]

I'd love to see a study on how the existence of the internet has changed generational divides. I hypothesise that the internet has broken down generational walls that have existed for a hundred years or more. When I was younger (and I'm a young Millennial), I would never consider those younger or older than me peers. But with the internet Gen Zers are talking every day to people older than themselves, and due to the nature of the internet they're talking to them as equals. Given how dominated the mass-internet has been by younger Millennials, I wouldn't be surprised if Gen Z has been so influenced by younger Millennials that they just copy a lot of the same beliefs. If so (and if this process continues), then the very concept of "generation" might be changing before our eyes.

[@THATBOISHAD]

Really your generation is the group of people living during your lifetime.

[@belkyhernandez8281]

I am in my fifties. I think there is more ageism now.

[@Ivashanko]

@@belkyhernandez8281 I further hypothesise that while the gaps between immediately adjacent generations are getting smaller, the chasm between the young on one side and the old on the other has gotten larger.

[@Ivashanko]

@@THATBOISHAD There is value in teasing out differences in cohorts over time, but our hard and fast definitions are silly. One's cohort differs depending on where one grew up, their identities, their socio-economic status, and events. Having each generation only cover 20 years (more or less) is silly, because sometime major epoch defining events happen more or less often than that.

[@rogersmith7396]

All the old fools I see have their noses in their cell phones. Not me.

[@carlkim2577]

We should keep in mind that the entire scale of political philosophy has continued to shift to the "left" over the last 250 yrs. There was a point where a conservative would have denied women the right to vote. If we go all the way back, being a conservative meant you were a royalist. There is movement inside the scale, but the biggest movement has been the entire scale.

[@szurketaltos2693]

Broadly speaking you're right, but in the US the Overton window on a number of issues is further right than it used to be. E.g. gun regulations, abortion, economics, healthcare. And further left than it used to be on LGBT rights and the environment for instance.

[@rogersmith7396]

Actually Republicans are referred to as 17th century liberals. They led the push to get rid of hereditary monarchy and establish the primacy of mercantileism which we have today. Dems are referred to as 18th century liberals who sought to decrease the influence of mercantileism with the rise of robber barons who were destroying the lives of average people for money without regard. Today average people are being destroyed by monopolists thanks to Republicanism. But yes you are right the historical swing is to the left. "For Every Wrong, a Right". Maybe inscribed on the Supreme Court Building?

[@Skumm93]

@@szurketaltos2693 These will gradually become left as those in power forcibly overturn these backwards issues, Conservatism is always a losing battle, you cannot, under any circumstances, halt the progress of a free nation. You can only do that with total control, and only in so far as you can hold the reigns, otherwise, it's always been a losing position in the grand scheme, even if in the meantime it seems like it works.

[@szurketaltos2693]

@@Skumm93 depends what you mean by left, Marxism used to be somewhat mainstream in the West (e.g. Debs) but nowadays most socialist parties are Scandinavian type socialist or even just center (e.g. UK Labour).

[@Skumm93]

@@szurketaltos2693 Left as in the general state of Liberalism, counting more on freedoms and capability to progress, rather than retaining traditions and values in a conservative structure.

[@old_grey_cat]

Don't forget the increased awareness of climate disasters. I know many under 40s - including rural with young families - who are seething, because they are aware that current problems are just the beginning.They have taken against right-wing policies vecause "If they lie about that, I won't trust their other ideas!" Left and right divisions on many aspects will be less significant as Democrats point at what the Republicans stopped them doing to prevent extreme change, and now-young Republicans who have mocked those worried about it. The middle income will start wanting the top 10% of wealth as well as income taxed hard as internal refugees and harvest crises hit, and water wars get worse.

[@ChristopherHalbersma]

Accumulation of wealth drives one to become a Conservative, not age. Break the middle class's wealth and watch them not turn Conservative.

[@chuckwilson980]

Great discussion. So glad to hear they didn't just fall back on pat explanations, but recognized the many complicating factors. I also loved that NERDS REPRESENT! 😉

[@TPGReddo]

Frickin love the WoW analogy, hilarious!

[@nehukybis]

The line was originally attributed to Genghis Khan, although it's probably apocryphal. Some Mongols are having an argument about what is the greatest joy in life. One says "The open steppe, a clear day and a swift horse under you." In the story, Genghis Khan disputes this, saying ""to crush your enemies, to see them fall at your feet - to take their horses and goods and hear the lamentation of their women- that is best." The scene is recreated, with slightly different wording, in the movie Conan the Barbarian as a vignette from Conan's youth.

[@rogersmith7396]

So Khan was a Republican.

[@kyleellis1825]

Pretty sure he told that to his father in law after marrying the chinese princess.

[@prettyhatemachine101]

Kristen Soltis Anderson is a gamer and I love it! What a fantastic discussion, really learned a lot.

[@jofujino]

Yes, I now have that Conan the Barbarian quote etched in my memory ready to be used on my rivals.

[@RobRoss]

Trump did have two major wins in office. The tax cut for the rich really helped out the wealthy donor class in this country. And the conservative justices he appointed to the S.C. overturned Roe. For a lot of Republicans, this is their single issue. My mom is such a person. She knows Trump is a terrible person. We’ve talked about it. But he got Roe overturned, and in her deeply Christian beliefs, that was the most important thing any candidate could have done. She won’t vote for anyone that is pro-choice. So she’ll vote for Trump again if he runs. 😢

[@Cb20345]

Yeah, they’re really ignoring the role religion plays in this. Gen X is the most conservative age cohort (besides the Silent generation) and they’re also the people who grew up at the height of the cool cultural conservatism (Reagan, the rise of megachurches, etc.)

[@jeffbrown773]

I’m a 40yo millennial. I remember having a gay friend in college and telling them I was ok with civil unions but not gay marriage. I’ve now been to several gay weddings and I’m ok with gay marriage. By Kirsten’s definition I’ve moved to the LEFT.

[@emilybarker3240]

I and a lot of my friends (from Tennessee and Alabama) have only grown more liberal as we age - we are older millennials.

[@masonm600]

45:50 "crush my enemies, see them driven before me, and hear the lamentations of their women" Never did I expect to hear Conan the Barbarian referenced on 538 hahaha

[@kyleellis1825]

... Ghenghis Khan.

[@alphabrainwave]

Maybe young voters are growing more conservative with age, but there's no way of knowing because there is not a conservative party anymore.

[@nancychandler3673]

Isn't that the truth. Republicans are no longer Conservative. They are the White Christo- Fascist Party.

[@hypnokitten6450]

I'm in my mid-40s and liberal and progressive. I think I agree with Beau's take on this... it isn't that young people are staying liberal longer. Its that typically the overton window keeps moving so what was once liberal becomes the new conservative. The people don't change much in their views but the parties do. And in the past few decades the right's party has dug in and refused to shift, so all the people who'd have transitioned into 'the new conservative' are all getting bunched up in the left. Which then means they're constantly mixing with progressive ideas so I guess they are shifting a bit, while the right is aging out of the population and yelling about kids getting off their lawn. It doesn't help that conservatism used to be economic (which favors older people so entices them) and now its moral. And morally my friends and family are getting attacked (even when I'm not 'them' I grew up with them, love them, and will fight for them over some rich self-righteous hypocritical politician any day of the week). And their morality doesn't seem to help w/ the climate change we can all easily observe with our own two eyes (and I'll take my late-age survival and my kid's future over some CEO's quarterly profits any day). So.. yea, modern conservatism is totally out of alignment with most people's reality. Without even touching on the whole 'pushing autocratic principles in a country founded through and defined by its revolution against a dictator', or Trumpism as a whole insane prospect.

[@Bc232klm]

Life sucks too much to feel comfortable in fucking over poor people. We're all the poor people now.

[@erikhumleker1880]

Maybe if Republicans hadn't gone coo coo for cocoa puffs younger people would vote for them. They did though so...

[@Ryoku1]

I was born in 82 making me a Xenniel. I could have voted in 2000 but was too nervous to do so. Back when I was young and nieve, I voted for the candidate Iagreed with the most; often going to the liberal ones, but never Repiblican (because I never agreed with them). But, being nieve, I thought I would also vote a few libritarians at the same time so that they would work together to create progressive laws with as little red tape as possible. Past that I didn't pay attention to politics. Then November 2016 came and I was checking the news daily in terror at the horror being unleashed. I swore then that I would now vote against the Republicans in every election I can. A vow Ihave kept. Strait blue though I do wish Bernie had won...

[@USMC-Goforth]

I thought i supported democrats up until 2018(2 years after i graduated) then i realized i fit better as an Independent swing voter.

[@janepappas1032]

I think many younger people would describe themselves a “progressive”, not a “liberal”, an important distinction. Moreover, their “progressiveness” is aligned with Bernie Sanders, not centrist, corporate Obama.

[@cogitoergosum9069]

I don't know if that's true. For many people, "progressive" and "liberal" aren't even on the same axes. Also, "liberal" definitely still evokes the leftwing in my mind (younger voter here)

[@belkyhernandez8281]

It's so weird to think people get conservative when they get older. I haven't seen this at all. In fact I think the opposite is true.

[@rogersmith7396]

All I have seen since GW Bush is a massive rise in fear and hate which plays into the semi fascist Republican line of thinking. It was the start of Americans hating Americans.

[@thehuffpuff10]

It's the opposite for Supreme Court Justices apparently.

[@belkyhernandez8281]

@@thehuffpuff10 Well I don't think the individuals got more conservative over time. They have always held those views. But elections have consequences and we are experiencing the consequence of electing conservatives.

[@namangoy]

People don't just get more conservative when they age. They get more conservative when they get rich. And due to late stage capitalism, younger generations aren't able to build wealth like older generations have

[@THATBOISHAD]

I like this comment because it's true, it's short and it saves me an hour of listening to this video.

[@brendoncahill7096]

the government is overstocked on boomers that have been incredibly successful at stopping any of the things that millennials value from being implemented...until there is some sort of progress on these issues i dont see why anyone would "regress to being more moderate". if you keep isolating groups they aren't going to just surrender their position.

[@tomisgood]

Unexpected Conan the Barbarian reference. So welcome.

[@eveningstarnm3107]

Apparently, 538 still doesn't know the difference between liberals and progressives. Nate should have stuck with baseball. He was good at that.

[@NotANameist]

I’m in my late 30’s and I didn’t leave the left, the left left me.

[@deadman746]

Voters don't go right until they get mortgages. Young people are less likely to get mortgages than ever.

[@jerrybean3280]

Just turned 71. I used to know what it meant to be a Democrat or a Republican. Now I only care that the constitution be preserved. If policy moves too far right or left, it can be corrected in the next election cycle. If we lose the roadmap (constitution) we will not be able to get it back.

[@rogersmith7396]

The constitution is a blueprint of elite class domination. People say we should follow the constitution. We are every day and its leading to back breaking servitude and domination by elites. Please read the constitution before making false statements about it.

[@JamesSchanen]

I loved Conan the Barbarian movie when I was a kid. I think my kids would find it boring.

[@crazyman8472]

KIDS! I don’t know what’s wrong with these kids today… 😜

[@wingsabre]

Traditionally in media and ratings, networks really stress on performance in the 18-49 year old age group as they are considered the age group with the most disposable income and can adhere to brand loyalty. Ages 50-65 is the other group and the advertisers tend to not focus much on this above 65 as they’re on social security, usually enter a more limited income range and are retired. In contrast to political leanings and voting, the older you get the more reliable you are at voting, especially those 65 and older. When you factor real life events, the multiple economic crashes since 2008 have reduced the political influences for younger voters and vastly left those who are elderly unaffected as they had built up a savings. So you create a situation where the more conservative voters have vastly greater income to push their values and they are generally more disconnected to the needs of millennials and genZ voters. The older voters are less sought after in advertising so they are funneled more into an isolated ecosystem. So now you end up with a situation where boomers and genX have an isolated media environment, they self reinforce each others views, rally around their base if they perceive their ecosystem is attacked, and they are able to continue to donate with ease. So this creates a situation where the GOP is incentivized to stay with these voters as they’re far more likely to win elections with them due to their reliability, but to everyone else, such as millennials and genZ seem tone deft on their political stance. For example, abortion access, climate change, and school gun violence are issues that genZ see as high priority but for the most part, the right wing media environment downplay them as issues, or mock them. So it really alienates the younger voters and solidifies them as liberal. Voters based on education level have also swapped. In the 1980s and 1990s the GOP usually won highly educated voters, but now it’s the Dems, so the people in society who has sway on society is also keeping younger voters more liberal. Traditionally, parties also gain swing voters by looking forward into the future and bring ideas that appear forward thinking. The GOP at this time is really more backwards looking, especially when Trump is unable to move beyond the 2020 elections, so they are exacerbation the potential to swing swingable younger voters to their side. Why would someone who just turned 18 years old vote for someone talking about events 4 years ago when the other side is talking about reducing the cost for college?

[@trioofone8911]

That Conan quote was worth the entire rest of the broadcast put together. Laughing out loud

[@sandpiperbf9767]

It's almost like the whole of human political viewpoints doesn't fit on a line

[@ywtcc]

Liberalism isn't progressive or left wing. You've really got to stop using the word Liberal if you don't know what it means.

[@nancychandler3673]

Liberalism is aligned with the Democrat Party. So your comment is false.

[@IrishPlante]

A conan babrian reference was such a gem in this one.

[@zane4218]

38:00 Much appreciation to the WoW boss-fight analogy (coming from a guy who hasn't had an interest in WoW for years). Adults and women are both always underrepresented in casually, publicly discussing specific video games. Often the references we do see are general and vague, and feel like pandering to hit a demographic as a whole. I.E. "I'm a gamer, I'm a nerd, I like video games" rather than "I play WoW, I play League, I play Pathfinder 2E". The specificity is part of why I love Henry Cavil, who also talks about the exact properties he finds interesting, even though I don't share interest in those specific games. KSA throwing that in the mix was a pleasant surprise that did help illustrate her point. Thanks, shout out to you! (Also yes, zero idea why they didn't attack him after midterms or expect him to implode on his own after 7 years instead of TRYING to bring him down.)

[@LenSpock]

Kristen Soltis-Anderson is so good, invite her back! She should be a regular!

[@d_dave7200]

As you guys said, we need to choose our question carefully. Anecdotally, in my millennial cohort of FB friends, I'd say on the issues they've moved LEFT over the years, like almost every group has. However, on the topic of political strategy and "respectability politics" they have indeed become more conservative. I find my lefty political tirades becoming less popular due to being seen as dramatic, all the while I get no sense folks have changed their minds on the issues. Additionally, it would be instructive to split economics from social issues. There's a group of young people, influenced by folks like Joe Rogan, who have moved significantly right on social issues and changed their minds. Those definitely exist. However, I think you'll find a majority are still economic populists. The old school Republican libertarian economics lines are not getting much traction at all in my age group.

[@d_dave7200]

As for the question of why this is happening, and how this trend is different to past decades -- I think you only need to look at the rise of the internet to understand. America can't pretend other more left-wing countries in Europe don't exist any longer. It would honestly be surprising if there wasn't a significant political realignment post-internet. Though the final outcome might take decades more to crystallize.

[@covfefe1787]

@@d_dave7200 mate your forgetting Sweden and Finland now has far right governments and Europe is broadly socially conservative and economically left in politics. the social democracy era ended in 2015 due to the refugee crisis creating a populist backlash and nativist response that has dominated European political discourse ever since. no Republican is against a total ban on migration. Trump let in record legal immigrants. No European populist politician would release the floodgates on migration as trump did.

[@clairejeannette8454]

Right on the mark!

[@KarolYuuki]

Younger millenial here. When I was a teenager, I was very much center, and I just moved more and more to the left as I got older. The ascension of this Trump's (and in my case Bolsonaro) right and the alt right really incentivised that. Cause a lot of things that I took for granted and thought would be the natural evolution of society (lgbt rights, abortion rights, etc) were being questioned. The economic aspect was also important. When I was growing up, every year things got better. And suddenly they started getting worse. I see a lot of people struggling to make ends meet. And I've been saving for a down payment on a house for years, but every year they get more expensive, and I feel like I'm stuck.

[@kc_1018]

I was conservative when I was younger while my sister was liberal. Fast forward a decade later, I have become more liberal and she became more conservative.

[@cogitoergosum9069]

I love "podcasts" like this

[@martinze11]

If you were to ask me,I would say that the influence of the diversity of living in large cities is at least part of it. The advent of the internet is another. COVID might be yet another. Historical trends may indicate an even more of a change..Like the rate of change as represented by the number of Constitutional amendments.

[@Kyotosomo]

Interestingly, the city one might reverse itself if the work from home trend persists, I'll be curious to see how that affects things.

[@themetalgamer9864]

Nope. I abandoned Liberalism and became a Communist by age 21.

[@johns3318]

Cool bro

[@mafiousbj]

We are also staying poorer for longer so no wonder nobody becomes conservative to maintain a status quo where you live paycheck to paycheck ^^

[@zacharyflint7901]

“I play World of Warcraft.” A brave woman for such a bold admission.

[@alexanderclaylavin]

They will be as liberal politically as their employers' wages are economically. Don't forget that shit.

[@eddieibarra356]

Gen Z and Millenials are the savior of democracy.

[@nancychandler3673]

We need to educate our youth about not splitting the ticket. Vote 💙 Biden.

[@Peachcreekmedia]

I think the issue is the GOP has moved way further right than young people are willing to go.

[@j.s.c.4355]

The pragmatism that he is describing at 51 minutes in is a result of the two party system. The winner take all, electoral college, and the concentration of power into the majority leaders in Congress. We don’t vote for the people we love, we vote against the people we fear. I believe that this is the greatest tragedy and weakness of the American democratic system. And it affects voters on both sides of any issue. And I hate to say “ both “ sides. There should be multiple sides, but there can’t be in our system.

[@ccbowers]

12:00 Precisely the point. This is a false premise. As people age, the trend is actually that they tend move to the left, on average, especially on social issues. Not relative to the contemporary population, but relative to their previous attitudes. It's pretty obvious when you think about attitudes about sex and race. Speak to a 65 year old today vs a 35 year old in 1998. On average they will have moved to the left (at least slightly) on gay marriage, interracial marriage, gender discrimination, etc. The reason why this is confused is that older people are more socially conservative relative to younger people at any given time. And the Obama vs Clinton voting is just the wrong method of evaluating the question as posed.

[@ryanmercer3165]

It's worth noting that this exact same trend has been noted in the UK as well. In the UK Consevative voting has historically been tied closely to home ownership. House prices have risen faster than wages for 20+ years now, and so people aren't able to buy homes until later and later in life, which seems to be contributing to 30-40 year olds staying liberal/left economically. (though even those who do manage to buy homes, are following this trend, possibly because they'll still have friends/family who can't)

[@rogersmith7396]

All the oldsters are going to try to cash out at once and either will be unable to sell or will sell at deep discount. Who cares.

[@higgs923]

I'm in my 70's. Cast my first vote for Gene McCarthy. I'd say, yes, yes we are staying liberal longer.

[@the3pista1c]

I 100% agree with Kristen on the question of younger voters going further left. Republicans will have to change their tune on several issues to remain competitive, which will put them in an awkward position with their older base, and so while future Republicans will still be competitive they will have undoubtedly shifted left, that is the real take away.

[@j.s.c.4355]

it also seems to me that the modern day Republican party isn’t changing to appeal to more people. They are trying to change people to agree with their positions. So unless you are susceptible to their messaging, you have to vote for the other guy. And that’s why I believe that. The modern republican party is actually losing support not gaining it.

[@RicJoJo]

These were both great guests!

[@89volvowithlazers]

I am 66 am all for the bulk of young America to take over the levers of government it is about time for 65 and over to get the f out of the way

[@davidwebb913]

The best predictor of one being a democrat or republican is gullibility.

[@WilliamofOckham990]

I was a basic liberal and only became a leftist in my late 20s

[@David-s5l5z]

Andrew has made a right decision be the boss of his own Forward Party, wish you great success in the coming presidential election!

[@williamtocajr.6483]

This was an awesome discussion. I really wanted to chime in on some topics. I'm a Gen X, Navy Veteran. I identified as a Democrat from inception, but have moved to left leaning independent. My reasoning is the realization of the money in politics issue. The Grift on both sides. Another metric that I think is an issue is the whole "own the libs" on the right. Also, it's not about abortion, guns or immigrants with the right, more or less its about the indoctrination process. Kristen! Gamer Girl! You totally have to get on the Starfield Xbox train. Epic!

[@JB-mf9ob]

Early 40s navy vet that has always been a registered Democrat despite often being skeptical of them. As I have gotten older I have sworn them off. Not because I have moved more right, but because their love of war and complete ownership by the same corporate masters as the Republicans. Sounds like we have some views of n common.

[@williamtocajr.6483]

@@JB-mf9ob Yep, left wing, right wing are attached to the same raggedy ass bird.