The Postmodern Horror of TikTok's Encanto Discourse

Encanto... a great Disney movie with great themes. But a terrible discourse.
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#gay #encanto #disney

[@alexander_avila]

FLASHING LIGHTS WARNING: 13:40-13:54

[@cloverplayssnakegame]

I really like this video thank you your research, nuance, and bisexual lighting

[@dgameryoutube5045]

No they attacked a 13 y/o because there a bunch of losers, bullys and probably biggets

[@ami2853]

I enjoy this. If you would do on hard mode on are they gay *love the videos* use mr mistoffelees and rum rum tugger from CATS. There is something there 😉

[@BoiFluffyFurry21]

I wonder if you will talk about Turning Red next. The new Pixar movie cause I saw some LGBTQ interpretations you can read in the movie. Also this film is the first time I've seen it openly taking puberty and some issues teenagers go through. Nevermind about the dumb controversies it got from conservatives saying puberty is inappropriate 🤣.

[@jcat5443]

Also FLASH WARNING for 30:15-30:27 ! It's less severe than at the 13:40-13:54 (which messed me up pretty bad bc I didn't see this before watching), but its worth noting too! Btw, I really liked the style of this video! The lecture theme with the bisexual lighting, and the script written on the chalkboard, was such a fun idea and such a pleasure to watch! Really great work! :) Edit to add: If possible at all, @AreTheyGay , can you try and add captions to your videos? As a disabled subscriber, its been tough to watch sometimes because of issues with audio processing and I can't recommend these videos to my similarly disabled friends.

[@Astrolionking]

I don’t know how ppl don’t acknowledge that homophobia ALSO has to do with generational trauma.

[@Aisha_Luv]

@Demon Slayer the trauma of one person passing homophobia down to their kids, etc. Ik Euphoria is a hot button topic, not gonna go into how good/bad it is, that’s your opinion, but if you’ve seen the show I think it does a good job showing how the internalized homophobia of a father, gets passed down into the homophobia of a son. So yes, it’s cultural, but it’s also about the fear and hatred instilled from generations of homophobia. It can even trickle down into your self-worth like it does with mirabelle

[@Lima_Lima_Lima]

T H I S

[@SZebS]

Yeah if someone says this they're either not latinoamerican or not lgbtq

[@swain-Ix1tv]

nate n cal jacobs

[@maflouffe]

The problem is culture here

[@lizzardeater]

One time I commented "You guys realize Latinos can be gay too right?" I was TORN TO PIECES

[@shroederthatboy.4691]

What happened?

[@Anonymous_Gambito]

@@shroederthatboy.4691 They were torn to pieces

[@lemohnthecat]

RIP

[@shroederthatboy.4691]

@@Anonymous_Gambito *likes comment angrily.*

[@HobieInTheBox]

Lmfao wtf is wrong with people

[@galaxiaknight]

as a hispanic person i don't understand the fuzz. generational trauma isn't a "unique" experience from Colombia, it concerns almost the entire world (see: the new movie Red), and especially harms those children who struggle to live up to their family's expectations, so most LGBTQ kids fall into that category. and i hate that tiktok and youtube and twitter people act as if ethnicity and queerness are incompatible with eachother. both things affects us, y'all.

[@fionafiona1146]

Germany has a proverb about taking 5 generations to wash blood from soil, I very much hope my children will have minimal amounts of trauma to carry on while building a better world from whatever foundation I can contribute.

[@Gizmolovesfood]

@will I agree completely I growed up In a strictly Christian family and when I first came out only my dad and brother excepted me. My mom wanted to trow me out but my dad didn't let her. A lot of my friends at my school didn't believe me when I came out and they still don't all because I am Christian

[@dificulttocure]

The funny thing is that the people complaining about the "ethnic appropiation" or whatever, are NEVER part of that ethnicity. They are americans that feel guilty and make a fuzz about it when no one within the ethnic group actually cares in the slightest. I'm latino, from Argentina, and I NEVER, I reapeat NEVER IN MY WHOLE LIFE heard someone from my country complaining about Argentinian or latin portrayal in american media. So, chill out, don't get offended for other people, I assure you no one on this side cares about this stuff.

[@littlekinglionheart]

as a Polish queer person, can confirm generational trauma is a thing that exists even when ur white! tho I am slavic white so that's like slightly different than american white I guess? idk it's confusing

[@Marymationnn]

So true. Also people that complain about people talking about certain aspects and ignoring all the other… Like, we can’t analyse everything all at once (especially on TWITTER lmao it’s not a scientific journal, just some random short thoughts of people around the world). Also it would be a little weird for white people to super actively discuss latinos experience when those people themselves can be much better judges and voices on this. Disney intentionally makes movies that can be relatable to all sorts of people, so it CAN be perceived in different ways by different people, and yes, they sometimes bring it to twitter

[@Lili-ib2rh]

Not just queer headcanon was seen as problematic. There are those who got bashed for reading Bruno as non-neurotypical. Which 1) seems like it wasn't even a headcanon but is actually canon, according to interviews with the creators and 2) non-neurotypical Latino exists. God, non-neurotypical queer latino DOES exist!

[@junjunjamore7735]

Bruno is even described as "OCD" in the script.

[@sonicbackrooms897]

Can confirm, I’m a neurodivergent queer Latino man lmao

[@m00nl1ghtj3w3l]

To add onto another comment that went "being LGBTQ+ is also a reason of generational trauma", people seem to forget that also being neurodivergent 99% of the time ends up with being traumatised.

[@jasonxavier3744]

@@sonicbackrooms897 cheers!

[@sonicbackrooms897]

@@jasonxavier3744 cheers 🕺🏽

[@jaxsjpg3225]

The ‘do we have to sexualise’ comment really got to me - sexuality is not inherently about sex. That might seem like an oxymoron but think about it, it reinforces the idea that ‘children are too young’ to be ‘exposed’ to gayness. That being gay is inherently nsfw. This never happens with straightness. We don’t shelter children from sexuality, we shelter them from lgbt identities. Suggesting we are wrong and inappropriate and deviant.

[@CrystalDragen]

Same! And they always use the same arguments as the more overtly homophobic. Like "I don't see any evidence of gay or the creators didn't make them overtly gay therefore gays don't exist". Or "Corporations would never make a gay person but if some creators/writers tried to sneak in gays through subtext than thats queerphobic and therefore doesn't count because its not "gay enough" "

[@Wuffskers]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if all you see when you see two men or two women being romantic and affectionate is graphic gay sex, that sounds like a you problem. It is incredibly common to see straight people be affectionate with one another and I think most people would agree that picturing graphic mental images of them having sex would be incredibly weird, yet this is treated as almost the default reaction to same sex affection. I remember once sharing some art of two male OCs from an MMO being affectionate and how I'd love to see more of that in the game and I literally had a few people immediately jump to gay sex not belonging in the game and it's like bro, it's literally just two men holding each other, there was no nudity, there was no visible sexual energy of any kind it was just about as sexlessly romantic as any straight couple you might see in most children's media, if all you see when looking at an image like that is actual gay sex, I really don't know what to tell you. Same thing goes for trans people too, people fixate on their bodies when it's none of their business and it's very much not normal to start pondering the genitals of random cishet people or asking them questions about their genitals. Is it appropriate to ask a random woman if she shaves down there? or ask a man if he's been circumcised? why do you think it's in any way appropriate or normal to ask a trans person about their genitals?

[@MB-hc9we]

Sexuality is just a fucked term, it makes it easy for ignorant people to assume its all about sex when it really isn’t

[@erenender66]

i've seen people try to use the "then why is it called homoSEXUAL then?!" argument, and it always annoys me so much that they just conveniently ignore the word Heterosexual. being straight is also a sexuality, just not an oppressed sexuality. Thinking being lgbt is inherently sexual completely ignores asexuals and romantic attraction as a whole, and it only serves to demonise those have already had to deal with prejudice. I've never understood why people have the audacity to see being gay as sexual and then call US the perverts. besides i'll start considering their arguments when they stop putting sex jokes on baby clothes just sayin- -sincerely, an annoyed queer

[@lissa4750]

@@erenender66 Asexuality itself is not a LGBT identity. You can be asexual & straight.

[@tensai_kodai]

I've had someone say "Stop fetishizing my latino culture" to me, A gay Puerto Rican/Mexican, after I said "We should encourage and celebrate people enterpreting Encanto and any other media in various ways". I'm disturbed by how many people are ready to put on their homophobia/transphobia shirt any chance they get.

[@kaizen2840]

I mean, aren't you kinda doing that though

[@coltonmartin5057]

@@kaizen2840 how?

[@kaizen2840]

The idea of sexualizing a character in a childrens movie is not something that should be encouraged or celebrated, gay, straight or trans. Although now that I think about it, that has nothing to do with fetishizing since I don't think he finds any sexual gratification from it (although that's just an assumption) But yeah sexualizing a kids cartoon is pretty weird, I don't see how he was being phobic.

[@kaizen2840]

@@zocivgal9945 "Queer is often used as an umbrella term to denote sexual identity within a particular community." Straight ,queer, or whatever else it's still sexualizing minors in a show meant for kids (who really don't have a concept of sexuality besides boy and girl.) Plus lets be honest, in this case, most people who are assuming characters sexuality are most definitely thinking about a sexual thing related to them.

[@Luisfour]

@@zocivgal9945 I was answering the main comment, not yours lol. "Seeing a character as queer is sexualising" is a kinda queerphobic take because there is more dimension in the queerness besides sexuality itself. Anyway, my point is that Encanto is a good movie and all that but if we are going to have some leftist woke SWJ conversations about this, we should start by the point that Encanto itself is fetishizing, so every other interpretation that we could make about the movie will somehow inherit that problem

[@jax_firestorm9689]

I’m a queer person of color (not Latino) but I didn’t see it through a queer lens. I saw it through a disabled lens. I’m autistic, and the family’s treatment of Bruno reminded me a lot of my autistic uncle, who stayed inside a lot, and didn’t talk to the rest of the family. I vibed with it that way. I feel like I can’t do as much as my neurotypical family, so I felt a lot of Mirabel’s sentiments about staying out of the way, or trying to help, but failing and looking a fool. That’s my lens.

[@flask223]

Yeah I think Mirabel not having a gift could be interpreted as a disability and you could read the movie through that lense.

[@BrieBoar]

A lot of (what can be considered) my family's generation trauma has its roots in neurodivergence, so I really tend to vibe with interpretations of Bruno, Mirabel, or both being neurodivergent. Mirabel is constantly told that she can't do things, that she can't contribute to her family or her community, and that without the ability to do what her family can, that she is essentially useless. And Bruno? Mentally healthy people don't choose to live in the walls of their family's house for a decade. Maybe a disabled/ND reading isn't what the creators were going for, but it's definitely easy to pick up.

[@purplespectre]

This can be added as part of an intersectional reading.

[@teethdotjpeg]

yes im queer and autistic (white though) and i kinda immediately saw it as a metaphor for neurodivergencies and disabilities (autism, ADHD, OCD, etc) before seeing a bunch of posts saying that the ONLY way to correctly interpret it is being straightfoward about generational trauma (spoilers: thats not the only way to interpret it)

[@jax_firestorm9689]

@@teethdotjpeg wow! It’s almost like family problems stem from a lot of different things, and the point of art is to make people feel things! Why didn’t I think of that?

[@zombieprince5139]

People do realize that the generational trauma shown in Encanto CAN, and often does irl, go hand in hand with things like homophobia and ableism, right? I'm queer and latino and I have tons of examples in my family. Being queer and/or ND isn't a white people thing. The movie may not be about those, but making HCs and different interpretations about it is def not erasing latino culture.

[@M1_1SHR00M]

Fr!

[@platannapipidae9621]

that's why i feel like Bruno could be queer in some way.

[@liiiiich3n0nTheM00n]

Intersectionality, I think, is a concept too hard for many internet users. You are an oppressor or an opressed. You are 1D good or 1D evil. Which means people get headaches trying to understand how to categorize the thought of something like a homophobic Latino family-- a both oppressive and oppressed family-- because it doesn't fit neatly into a box. So internet users say, "Uhhhh, RACISM" like usual.

[@whoiskwanda]

videos like this literally remind me why subjects like sociology are so important. stellar job king.

[@thewhisper4269]

Lain

[@xlovleyx1543]

Lain

[@basilcreates8146]

L a i n

[@ravensramen]

LAIN

[@edgybandkid9407]

lain

[@Etsuk0]

I am pro headcanon, just it extremely frustrates me that Luisa is usually the one HC'd as trans. They had to fight *so hard* to get her design to not be the traditional feminine disney woman shtick, and now a bunch of people want to label her as trans. It just feels icky for a multitude of reasons. Edit before pitchforks: not the trans reading being icky, but the fact that 99% of people labelling the one who doesn't look feminine as the trans one. especially with how many issues trans people who struggle to pass can have.

[@Sam20309]

Another trans person here, I also agree with this

[@valentinewiggin7782]

Yeah, and it also seems to be rooted in the masculinization of WOC.

[@bombasticnoa]

as a trans woman i agree. not to mention how woc are always labelled as more masculine bc femininity as a construct was built around whiteness.

[@cjboyo]

Correct! That 100% upsets me. It’s a similar problem in podcast fandoms where a character doesn’t have a set race, the characters that are headcanoned as nonwhite tend to be… telling of the biases of those doing the headcanoning

[@gentlesandladymen]

Exactly!

[@trashgoblin1182]

Stephanie Beatriz, the voice of Mirabel herself, has stated how much she relates to the character both due to anti Latine sentiments and biphobia. She talked about feeling like an outsider in her family because she's bisexual in an interview, the voice actress herself shares the feelings of many fans getting crucified for daring to imply that the film can be relatable to LGBTQ+ people.

[@Lili-ib2rh]

Well said. One of my best friends (who is Latina and queer) is still in shock about why people can't appreciate all the reading levels. She cries over the scene with Isabela with Mirabel, because she could see her own experience of the pressure to be the perfect daughter as well as wanting to live her queer identity. It's a strength to be able to reach so many different people, not a flaw.

[@omanoma5278]

latino*

[@cupsfilledwithcups72]

its a movie about a super powered family of latinos (plus the actual plot). any LGBTQ+ ideas would come from meta elements outside the movie itself. So I'd say that movie can relate to LGBTQ+ however should primarily be thought of in a straight lens because thats what the movie it self presents itself. Again let me reiterate the movie can relate to LGBTQ+ ideas indirectly

[@cupsfilledwithcups72]

@@Lili-ib2rh its not in the movie itself. her reading of the movie is her view of the film, in other words she subjectively views the film as pro-LGBTQ+. others don't have to hold or agree with the same opinions or reading as her because they aren't her. of cause this whole idea stems from post-modernist ideals that the intent of the work itself takes a backseat to a person's reading of a piece of art. take from that what you will. TLDR: people don't have to agree with all reading levels because they have the right to agree with whatever the hell they want because personal liberty is ultimately the best policy of all as long as people think that its okay to disagree on things

[@trashgoblin1182]

@@cupsfilledwithcups72 I'd argue the movie presents itself as neither gay or straight. Nobody states their orientation outright (all the people who date could be bi or pan for all we know), so neither a gay or straight lens is better or worse to view the movie in, it's all ambiguous, and ultimately doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of the plot. What lens you see it in depends on who's watching it, which is applicable to nearly every aspect of any movie. You seem to be arguing a point nobody was making. We know it's meta textual, nobody here at least claimed otherwise, everyone is entirely aware Disney will drop dead before ever making a movie with LGBTQ+ people.

[@dangernoodledee111]

For me, seeing the “Isabella is a lesbian” theories made me happy not because I am queer, but because my Colombian American cousin is a lesbian. It feels like most queer people have gotten queer representation from a white perspective, and that POC have to settle for that. My cousin can’t have a character that’s both queer and Latina, only ever queer OR Latina, but here, she can see both her culture, her ethnicity, and her sexuality! This is where the intersectionality is truly important. Because it’s not fair to have only one or the other. With this kind of stuff, people with multiple identities can be seen, and have the representation that fits them properly.

[@gbdeck200]

Except she isn't, nor is coded as such

[@dangernoodledee111]

@@gbdeck200 I’m not saying she is, I’m saying that the head canons are nice.

[@pigeonegg1429]

@@gbdeck200 did you watch the video

[@chancewill6910]

I like to write gay stories but typically leave out "person looked liked this" because I have my type in looks but a lot of it is personality and I like people to be able use their imagination and make their own person. For example, I mostly like blondes so that's what I always imagine but I once loosely (because I don't have that experience) wrote a Hispanic love interest

[@viceliag3916]

@@gbdeck200 lesbians don't owe you accuracy to stereotypes and the movie isn't about sexuality or romantic relationships, so you legitimately do not have enough context to say for certain that she isn't a lesbian. We already know from the written story that she didn't love the man she was slated to marry, so who's to say she loves men at all?

[@PorterNetwork]

"A vaguely homoerotic half pseudo-venezuelan half mexican sociology major" has got to be the best sentence I have heard someone use to describe themselves

[@annalysenko9180]

I think some anti-hc statements show a problem that affects many queer people. Separation of queerness and national identity that comes both from within the lgbtq+community and from straight people. If we declare our queerness we are exluded from our traditions as our family disowns us and, at least in my case, big part of our national identity is routed in religion with a very homophobic church. A dichotomy is created between “the traditional values“ and “the western influence“. And the lgbt rep we get is mostly white amrican too, so it feels like you cant actually belong anywhere.

[@darkshadowjoselynedelgadil8671]

finally! this is exactly how i feel!! thank you!!!

[@sapphicvampire8504]

Homosexuality (in my country’s context, woNt disclose name) had history of homosexuality being accepted in our communities and even polyamory was approved. This was during the pre-colonial era and it sadly got pushed back in progress due to colonizers. I can relate to how the dichotomy tends to affect poc’s cultures who have religion heavily influence it. I personally relate to that as I feel detached due to my religion being an aetheist. Anyways to wrap up this weird bundle of words thank you for this comment this makes so much sense and it’s eye opening, I personally believe that you can still be queer and love ur culture and participate it with those who love and support you (and It’s also ok if you don’t !)

[@sapphicvampire8504]

We really need more queer poc representation so that it really breaks down the narrative of Homosexuality being a “Western thing”.

[@ShinyShilla]

I personally am just against hc based on stereotypes, example how people hc Luisa to be trans "just because" she is strong or buff. Why not Isabela? Mirabel? Bruno? Maybe im just the problem idk

[@Wuffskers]

the erasure of the influence of people of color on the LGBT rights movement really is tragic not only the fact that people like Sylvia were ostracized from their own community, but now future generations of queer people of color have to fight against the idea that their queerness is something "other" something "white" or "western" or however someone wants to frame it simply because the US was where some of the most visible parts of the movement came from, even though that ignores that the queer rights movement in the US that everyone feels they're so familiar with can literally trace it's origins to people of color.

[@violetthunter]

The thing about general audience, yes exactly that. I'm a white non-binary German who watched this movie and related most to the family struggles and the feeling of being misunderstood by the older generations. Of course there's a lot more to this movie but that's what I took most from it. I have a pretty big family and we're all very close so the family Madrigal felt so similar to mine. And I saw myself in Mirabel. I loved this movie a lot for many reasons, but that was the main one

[@xxmathiasnofacexx]

Same, I’m also German but the thing is I’m not the German German, I’m half Russian, and I’m not Russian Russian. This combination would make people in Germany think: “oh this is someone who says Digga or Schwuchti a lot” no, there is a lot of stereotypicalisation (if that is true) and I am trans and pansexual, sure, but whenever I meet people that also identify like me, they most likely fit in these stereotypical expectations, so I do feel like I never fit in my country, until I met someone that is born in Russia and came to Germany at a young age, who is trans and gay, he really loves to speak English, because he feels the same, we both hate these stereotype that actually is like 80% true everywhere here, and we connected and mostly only spoke in English (we are both fluent for some reason, well he actually loved English media and that’s why, and I was some years in America before I met him in 6th grade.) We both have family issues and we don’t fit in the main stream in our country. We avoid the language so we feel more comfortable, and we speak Russian less that German for russians homophobic reasons, still it is part of ourselves and we aren’t lying about it being part of ourselves, we just don’t like that part and it’s okay. Honestly we always joke about how two homophobic cultures can make something so gay)) But anyways, we loved and enjoyed the movie a lot because it relates to our past struggles, but after time passed we learned how to accept it, since it’s not bad that we aren’t the stereotypical people, we even joked about being quirky (ez) but he doesn’t have a big family, since only his mom came with him to Germany (when his parents divorced) and at his birthday only his and his moms (also his aunt is the only family that comes too) friends come. And I have a big family that always ignored my existence except my sister (and maybe my mom and brother bc we live together) so it’s very relatable. We both love our family, because I can only hate the actions of my family but never learn to hate them completely for their actions, which is again a relatable thing in encanto. I really think we don’t have any hcs.. XD maybe Luisa being asexual? Not more tbh, I’m just saying I can relate to your comment ♥️😂 Ich hatte wirklich keinen Bock das alles auf deutsch zu schreiben, aber naja, hoffe du verstehst es trotzdem ♥️ Also: non-binary pronouns in German should be a thing !!! 😭😭😭

[@violetthunter]

@@xxmathiasnofacexx Damn, what a story 😅 I love that for you guys, that's lovely! I'm glad you found something you can relate to even though it's very different from what you actually experience! I actually don't really have any headcanons but Bruno being outsided by his family especially his mother felt very like he was gay to me. There are only little things that support that but I just felt like his situation would mirror the one of a gay/queer child. Und kein Stress, ich studiere Englisch und hab viele englischsprachige Internetfreunde, ich kann in beiden Sprachen gut kommunizieren 💕😊 And totally agree about the pronouns thing.... it's a struggle 😅

[@amessofaperson]

@@xxmathiasnofacexx same!

[@xxmathiasnofacexx]

@@violetthunter thanks!

[@raccoonia]

@@xxmathiasnofacexx I'm also a queer and trans person born in Russia and came to Germany at an early age! It's so nice to meet more people like me. It didnt start too long ago for me that I wanted to think about my own identities and struggles that come with immigration, queerhostility, generational abuse, never being able to connect with others from the community, not feeling 100% German or Russian or Kazakh. Its really weird. But I'd love to talk and exchange experiences with those who struggle or struggled with the same

[@ayacyte443]

" I'm 13 white and autistic is it wrong to imagine gay" " So for some backstory, my father was a wanted criminal"

[@anitanielsen1061]

O_o how are they related????

[@palemeadows]

what

[@ninawth]

*grandfather

[@blackrosejinx5563]

I cannot tell you how much this is as a Latina lesbian, feeling compelled to turn to one side but still feeling marginalized and left out in another. And every time I’ve commented about “what about Latino queers?” I’ve been met with silence. Thank you for finally answering my question after neither side could.

[@Lima_Lima_Lima]

Same...

[@imthebossmermaid3648]

Nb these people really be acting like only white people can be queer or neurodivergent. Or both. 😒 As a Black lesbian I totes agree with you.

[@NosebleeddeGroselha]

Just a slight correction: a headcanon isn’t exactly a theory. It can be a theory, but it can also be just a superficial assumption you make about the story just for funsies. Calling it a theory makes it seem that everyone who has an HC believes firmly in them, that’s not always the case.

[@Barakon]

Head canon; a hypothesis that’s at times spices with a pinch of projection.

[@tourmelion9221]

Head canons are just ideas that would be cool, say like if Isabella got a phone when they start being manufactured and gets into stocks, I see a stock person in Isabella, will it ever happen, probably not, but it would be cool

[@phoenixfritzinger9185]

I always thought that headcannons were like a lot less serious of a thing that people have kinda ended up confusing with theories like idk uhh Tony Stark loves pumpernickel bread but doesn’t mind whole wheat or something like that vs. whatever Matpat is on about this month

[@percabethlumity]

Yeah exactly. I get so annoyed at people who are like, wELl ACtUallY Isabella can't be a lesbian because of this cut scene blah blah blah and it's kinda just like, I don't think anyone cares?? Very few people take their headcanons to be real in the actual story, if they did they would be calling it canon not headcanon.

[@ganyu2637]

exactly !! all my headcanons r just for fun/comfort and i fully respect people who have different ones to me because it’s fiction and everyone can interpret it in different ways

[@Victoria-dh9vb]

I swear to God, the only time the "do we need to sexualize a children's movie" argument comes up is when a character isn't straight. Meanwhile, children are sexualized in a straight way as soon as they are jettisoned from the womb. "Oh what a little heartbreaker" "Oh what a little ladies man" "look at her little boyfriend" Etc. Etc.

[@giorgiafletcher9546]

and disney absolutely loves the whole "princess finds her prince" which obviously has sexual undertones/intentions there but thAtS fiNe bEcaUse TheyRe StRaigHt

[@flask223]

Makes me sick

[@takeyourpills3979]

That's not true you freak, do you think it's right for children to be exposed to sex of any kind at a young age?

[@evita6150]

My mother HATES when people did that and I'm so happy she never let anyone say stuff like that to me as aa child.

[@Rainjojo]

Some are forgetting Disney princesses were like 15 dating a man in his 40’s. But god forbid someone shipping two people within the same age and sex because it’s “inappropriate.” God forbid progressing as a civilization by treating others with respect and not have a Stone Age mentality 😱

[@Raven1799Games]

As a lesbian Latina, I really relate to the struggles of Isabella in the movie. I too am held to really fucking high expectations and have a heteronormative agenda shoved down my throat all the time as my family expects me to marry some fucking d00d. I also decided to dye my hair blue and love making art. So obviously, I head cannon Isabella as a lesbian. It's been frustrating, especially because my partner continuously shuts me down when I try to talk about it. Saying this movie isn't about sexuality and i shouldn't be trying to introduce it into it. Granted they are white, so I find it admirable that they are listening to latino voices, but they are completely looking at this in black and white, thank you for giving me the tools to help talk about this from a more nuanced perspective because I was lacking the vocabulary to do so. Edit: I just wanted to say that my partner has turned around with their views after taking some more time, and apologized about how they were acting before.

[@kurootsuki3326]

it's a shame your partner silences you on something like this tbh

[@imthebossmermaid3648]

They’re not actually listening to Latino voices if they shut down their own Latina girlfriend for headcanoning Isabela as a lesbian whine being a lesbian herself. They’re listening to the voices of people who use the fact that white queer people do try to erase the movie with queer headcanons as an excuse to be homophobic towards anyone who has those headcanons even if they’re not white or erasing the meaning of the movie.

[@_Lynnteressant_]

Not to drag on your partner (you know them, not me, a random person online) but perhaps it would be good to talk with them about minority groups not being a monolith. It just strikes me as a discrepancy that your partner is trying to listen to latine voices by shutting down YOUR voice, the latine person supposedly closest to them.

[@imthebossmermaid3648]

@@_Lynnteressant_ Exactly, it's mad ironic and sus like huh 🤨

[@cancelledavac]

Explícale a tu pareja lo que significa headcanon y la muerte del autor :)

[@Rose-qn2ed]

Since no one else will say it because they're too busy fighting in the comments, this video is excellently made. Lighting, chalkboard, the way you talk, editing, and the overall composition is great. You deserve more recognition and subs.

[@kashiichan]

Absolutely agree. This video alone has earned a subscription from me.

[@geministrial950]

Exactly

[@mysticmoth1111]

I was thinking this while listening. They are funny, well spoken, and put some real effort anf thought into this video and it's content.

[@WillBilly.]

yeah it was a great video and even got me too stay who dislikes the whole movement of victim/who has it worse.

[@littlemoth4956]

Who tf is fighting in this comment section? Point me to them. You can't. They don't exist

[@nosyDetective]

The comment about the gays ''doing the same thing with Luca'' is so funny because I'm Italian and gay lmaoo yes I wanna see the Ligurian coast, yes I wanna see them be in a relationship I also got called a groomer for saying Luca and Alberto could have a crush on each other

[@pizzaengrey]

Ah sì, gli americ*ni che pensano che le persone italiane non siano bianche

[@FigConsumer]

@@lekswig3316 how?

[@doctext-jose.e-3484]

They do well on calling you a groomer

[@lemonlypop]

@@doctext-jose.e-3484 ah yes, you certainly have a great grasp of what that word means. You sure put your big boy pants there, using such a big boy word.

[@wilsowallis]

@@doctext-jose.e-3484 no bitches ?

[@cryptid6279]

love how both sides of the argument completely ignore the fact that "hey! intersectionality exists!"

[@oshawott946]

Literally why I give up arguing with ppl on the internet lol

[@bobbirdsong6825]

they also ignore the reality that there can just... be several interpretations of a piece of art depending on the viewer whether the artist intended it or not and this if fine. so if they're trying to be progressive, it's ignoring intersectionality, and if they are just trying to enjoy the movie they could just ignore the other interpretations like they would with everything else they consume

[@panicatthedm873]

@@bobbirdsong6825 honestly yeah, i have a problem where i can see any piece of art (music, drawn, book) as a memento mori everything is a reminder that you will die when you have my eyes

[@Dakarai_Knight]

Tbh most of the headcannon debates are people getting mad at people for having a headcannon. The majority of headcannoners I see don't really impose it as fact just an interesting interpretation. So for the most part it feels like one side forgets intersectionality exists.

[@psychopomp5636]

I have a neurodivergent aunt who is really nice, makes cookies for all of us, and got me the greatest YA novels when I was in middle school and my parents tried to screen everything I bought. However, my mother is a dick and she always badmouths everything my aunt does. I felt Bruno was similar to her in a kind of fun, slightly irresponsible adult who was just shut out of everything. Also my mom LOVES passive-aggressively comparing everything masculine, weird, or reckless thing I do to as "just like your aunt" when everyone knows she means this as an insult.

[@georgenoodles1387]

Your aunt sounds so awesome

[@robynwilson9227]

Okay but I suffered with this over DISCUSSING OTHER PEOPLES HEADCANONS. There is a popular headcanon that Bruno has Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (not an unfounded headcanon, as I have had OCD my entire life and have been diagnosed for a few years now i can 100% safely say Bruno STRONGLY fits the criteria and symptoms) and I simply discussed via Tiktok that if you are going to HC Bruno as having OCD to please do so with care to avoid stereotyping bc ppl w OCD suffer so much at the hand of stereotypes. In response I had a SLEW of comments say i was "erasing the culture of the movie to make it about white people". Discourse that was almost entirely from other white people. They used excuses like "the movie isnt for YOU" and the stereotypey feeling "Latino ppl are superstitious" even though I know people of Latino origin with OCD who DEEPLY connected with Bruno and found joy in seeing OCD symptoms onscreen represented for them. POC can be Neurodivergent, and dismissing disability symptoms because of someones culture is DANGEROUS. There IS an intersection, and even though I am white OCD is erased SO MUCH in ND discourse so it makes me angry to see this even SMALLER group in the OCD community erased bc of the inability of certain people to acknowledge intersectionality using bs arguments based in ableism and cultural stereotypes. PS the WORST of the people harassing me in my comments was a Mirabel roleplay account who claimed she was Mirabel actually making tiktoks from Colombia in the 1950s. Nothing to add there, I just find it funny a Mirabel cosplayer harassed me so much I had to block them completely after like 20 comments calling me racist and making ableist remarks LMFAO

[@zech_]

Totally agree. Actually, Bruno's OCD is mentioned in the movie script, so could it be considered a sort of canon? idk, the only thing i'm sure of is that most of people have no idea of what OCD is about. First of all, it’s not about the obsessions topics, but the way these obsessions get stuck in people's heads and what they do trying to overcome them (compulsions). Obviously superstitious rituals themselves are not intrinsically related to OCD and assuming otherwise is problematic. Sure, Bruno is superstitious, and surely his rituals are related to his cultural background, but its the over-exaggerate way he performs them that makes them look really compulsive. They also seem to reflect him being state of anxiety. I'm sure he possibly having OCD doesn't erase the culture or the generational trauma, it just adds an ulterior layer to the character's depth. Personally, as having OCD myself, i felt moved to finally see on screen the representation of a character with OCD symptoms which is not stereotypical.

[@thepinkestpigglet7529]

"Latino people are superstitious" How does that mean a Latino person can't be ocd?

[@robynwilson9227]

@@thepinkestpigglet7529 LEGIT. People from superstitious families and cultures actually struggle MORE with OCD because people wont listen to them and cant get a diagnosis as a result

[@robynwilson9227]

@@zech_ THIS. People wave it off as superstitious cultural behaviour but a superstition should not cause you anxiety and they SHOULD NOT rule your life. And the rituals should not lead to massive relief. When they do, as with Bruno, it becomes OCD. And while superstitious behaviour doesnt automatically equate to OCD, it CAN be a common manifestation (referred to as Magical Thinking OCD).

[@alain9986]

ikr!! i have ocd too, and people act like you can't be both neurodivergent and latino?? it's so weird, i really dont understand what goes through the heads of the ppl who gatekeep like that

[@lostintranslation5630]

i was deeply saddened by the way the encanto fandom used preserving culture as a cover for blatant homophobia.

[@ganyu2637]

exactly how i felt

[@MrSophire]

I like how lgbt must make everything about them and if you disagree you’re homophobic

[@shroederthatboy.4691]

@@MrSophire cool 😎

[@_-luke-_]

@@MrSophire that is very clearly not the point being made ?

[@MrSophire]

@@_-luke-_ what is the point? I see more people getting pissy that their lgbt head canons are not cannoning, remember how many were upset because Elsa was not a confirmed Lesbian, how about how twitter jumped down the creator of Lucka throat because he said the story HE wrote was about three KIDS becoming friends with homosexual no undertones. You guys cried and wined about it until he caved.

[@lourivas21]

I think the aggressiveness of the "stop adding queer discourse into this cultural movie" arguments, shows how little understanding/acceptance goes into the fact that queerness/sexuality is not a separate thing --- it's an integral part of a person's identity just as much as their culture is.

[@somo4227]

or beacuse they don't agree with you

[@junjunjamore7735]

@@somo4227 No amount of disagreement would erase LGBT folks from other cultures though.

[@somo4227]

@@junjunjamore7735 💀💀💀

[@gigi.castex9995]

We never said it was a separate thing. Encanto is still relatively new in terms of a kids movie exploring generational trauma in a hispanic context. Adding queer discourse and trying to make them cannon takes away the DIRECT consequence of generational trauma and conflating it with other causes (which is possible but that not the aim). I must say, I'm completely down for finding ways to relate to the encanto characters and if you want to view it through another lense, thats fantastic...it humanises them but please be respectful with the main focus of the story. It's a story that carries a lot of weight for colombians and other hispanic people in which some happen to also belong to the lgbt community.

[@GOFFBITZH666]

@@gigi.castex9995 OH MY GOD THANK YOU

[@Eddrian32]

About the whole trans Luisa headcanon thing (or rather, the idea of headcanoning muscular women as trans), I think it ignores that there ARE trans women and transfeminine people out there who DO want to see muscular trans women in media. The thing we don't want to see is a ridiculous conservative caricature of what trans women look like (you know the one), which I think applies to all representation really. Do I think Luisa is trans? No, but I *can* empathize with a transfem who looks at her and thinks "god I wish that were me."

[@BlueMiaou]

People expect marginalized identities to not fit into the stereotypes. It's super hard when you do, because on one hand you have people who actively stereotype or marginalize or otherwise oppress your identity or people with your identity, that ostracize you from society, and others from your own identity that reject you for fitting in the stereotype or the label too snuggly. It's weird.

[@bandidocavalier]

as a latino trans person (not exactly woman because the binary is just not my thing) luisa was so fucking relatable for me. When you are trans around here you are expected to be strong and caring of cis queers (esp cis queer women, so you avoid being seen as a predator), you have to be motherly, you have to fix their problems, cis queers they always say shit like las travas nos van a salvar a todos and is like aint nobody saving your ass. Get up and do the work. In that sense is so. Being under the pressure of being The Most Fit For Helping. The Strongest For How Much You Went Thru. When I saw people yelling about how offensive it was to reaffirm that a character that I liked could Possibly Be Anything Alike To Me, how Horrid it was to think, I felt alienated again. It reminded me of hanging out with the boys in my school and hearing them talking about gay and trans people, horrified and mocking us, seemingly still unaware of me being just what they were mocking and just... sitting right there with them, having to hear all of it

[@anitanielsen1061]

I and my friends ALSO think she’s trans

[@runefaustblack]

I sadly (or fortunately) don't know the one, what is it?

[@JennaGetsCreative]

I'm 100% in favour of Luisa representing trans identities and as a non-binary individual I'm actually ashamed of myself for not jumping to that myself. To play devil's advocate, though, I think some people are pushing back against this because Luisa is the first main cast non-villain young female character who absolutely rocks and isn't shaped like a Barbie doll. Cis girls need that rep, too.

[@artemiswolf4508]

I think what really upsets me is the idea that a queer reading and a analysis of generational trauma in latino families cannot coexist. Encanto at its core, is a story about a kid who’s left behind by their family and community for not fitting traditional standards of who they should be and the sacrifices everyone else in the family has to make to achieve those standards. No latine kid has ever been isolated from their families for not getting magical powers. Several of them have experience this exact same thing for being queer or simply not conforming to traditional gender roles. Like imagine I came up to a disable person and I told them they cannot interpret Encanto as an allegory for disabilities “because it’s a story about colombians”. Colombians can relate to the movie not just for being colombians, but because some of them are disable, neurodivergent and/or gay. Also shocker, but if you go to interact with the Encanto fandom in places with a lot lgbt teens like tumblr and tiktok, you’re gonna find a lot of interpretations that have to do with gender and sexuality. If a teenage lesbian sees Isabella’s story of being force to marry a man to achieve her family’s expectations, they’re probably gonna connect that with their own experiences. And what’s wrong with that? If you don’t want to interpret Encanto under queer lense you don’t have to. Relate with the movie in your own terms and let other people do the same.

[@clauded.]

HOLY FUCK. THANK YOU. latin@ ace lesbian here, YES, i relate so much to that. the idea that I HAVE to be in a relationship with a man to satisfy society but especially my parents. also the fact I'm ace, when The sexual part of relationships in my culture is SO prominent, and also the shame that comes with my sexuality already being seen as an inherently sexual thing... it all weighs down on you. ever since I've started seeing the "you can't headcanon encanto characters as queer because the cultural message..." comments i was like, yeah i guess, but also, having to hide my queerness is part of having to play to the expectations my culture and family give me, HELLO?? (Sorry for any bad english and rambles i just AAAAAAA?????!!)

[@octabodemes]

Latino trans man here and you are so right. At first I only felt slightly uncomfortable about people only making it about LGBT stuff because the scenarios I would see (mostly white people make) were so out of character in our culture and more so in our countries that they would make me feel lost haha, but I think at the same time that was kinda hypocritical of me since I would also turn around and headcanon Bruno as a trans man since I would relate to mi mamá literally "not talking about me" to other people in the family. Honestly there's no harm in having headcanons and I think we all know at the end of the day there are so many headcanons because there is SO FEW canon characters, more so in Disney, that are LGBT.

[@AzoSBear]

Yes

[@B0OBIES]

there's nothing wrong with connecting to characters on your own level but to say a certain character is undoubtedly gay or lgbt because of the imaginary hcs you came up with is just as limiting as someone saying the opposite. for ex someone saying that Isabella is a straight up lesbian because she doesn't wanna take part in an arranged marriage can be an somewhat exclusionary considering how arranged marriage is still prevalent and definitely not exclusive to members of the lgbt who don't want to commit to heterosexual relationships. it's ok to make a connection like that but dont just write off the idea of not liking arranged marriage as a lesbian thing 😂

[@AzoSBear]

@@B0OBIES i think the point of headcanons are things that are supposed to differ from the narrative It's the reason why headcanons are marked as headcanons and not fact nor opinions

[@Mandavee]

After watching Encanto with my friends, I (Chicana) mentioned off hand that Bruno displayed some traits of Autism. My friend (white) told me that I shouldn't HC that because of the cultural differences (His superstitions are imbedded in Latine culture etc) ... to which I told her "You can be Colombian AND Autistic" ~Intersectionality~

[@thatsdisco]

yeah, also,, the way he used said superstitions felt like compulsions that he does in order to not freak out? At least that's how I interpreted it

[@firefancy9928]

I'm autistic and I really do appreciate this comment. Some days I worry I'm just projecting my autistic struggles onto characters, so I never say anything when I feel like I relate to a character. I can acknowledge that the finer details and cultural contexts are obviously very different between me and Bruno, but I related to being ostracized and misunderstood like how Bruno was, and about wanting to withdraw from family connection, so as to not make them look bad.

[@AloysiusWaffle]

Nah bro it cancels out obviously 🙄/satire obviously

[@peeblekitty5780]

Not to mention the discourse over hc'ing Bruno as having OCD when the screenplay literally mentions him having OCD

[@atlasleigh]

@@peeblekitty5780 Ikr lmao, unfortunately the anti-headcanon approach also has a lot of ableism in it as well.

[@janaekelis]

is Encanto about being gay? no. can we make headcanons? sure. i feel like people are so chronically online to the point where we want to impose our own opinions onto a piece of media and then expect everyone else to agree.

[@SaikiKFann]

I’m torn between both sides. I don’t like headcannons based off of tiny details/ unreasonable stuff. But I do like the headcannons

[@antonioscendrategattico2302]

Personally I think the people involved in this "discourse" are making the huge mistake of turning what's essentially a discussion about tone and appropriateness into a moralistic debate between two "sides". Headcanons are fine, everyone has them, acting like you can't is stupid. It's just that some headcanon people can be annoying, especially those that talk about this as if it's a representation Pokèmon game where you gotta "catch 'em all". But that's it, at worst they're kinda annoying. It's not worth putting up that kind of fuss, just... ignore them, or politely tell them to tone it down in case they barge into a thread with a bad attitude.

[@Hyperversum3]

@@antonioscendrategattico2302 Precisely. It's not about not allowing others to have their headcanon, it's about not wanting to hear only people headcanons when goddamn searching/talking about something. At times, people don't want to hear about your personal spin and take on something, they want to discuss the *art in front of them*

[@spence6195]

Encanto is not explicitly about being gay but it has somewhat queercoded characters

[@buchstaben-suppe]

@@spence6195 i see that word very often and i’m always confused, what does queer-coded mean? maybe i’m already too old or it’s the language barrier but to me it’s just assumptions that you make about a character, is it not? if a guy wears a skirt, is that queer coded or does he just want to wear a skirt? idk maybe this is a dangerous thing to question but i’d like to hear your take on it

[@Nightman221k]

The fandom got toxic so fast with Encanto. It makes me glad I don't really partake in fandom much anymore, but I sure as hell noticed how frequently people went against the LGBT interpritations here. Gatekeeping against LGBT headcanons struck me as homophobia because they're saying you can't embrace the themes and culture of the movie while also thinking a character could be LGBT. Nothing specifically confirms the character is straight. Nobody knows what Luisa, Bruno, Isabela, Camilo, and Mirabel want in a relationship. They're fictional characters, they don't exist in a way that negates the interpretations.

[@m0n422]

you said everything

[@junjunjamore7735]

@yeah okay Aren't gays more common in anime than western animation? xD

[@abnerdwight]

@@junjunjamore7735 that sounds like another 40 minute video… 😂

[@heyo80]

I think people have an issue with it because people are really trying to paint the idea that these characters must be lgbt because of a stereotype (being a strong woman, or rejecting a man) It takes away from the movie to say Abuela’s pressure and shunning of her own family has to do with them being different (gay, trans etc) when in reality the pressure comes from them needing to meet an expectation based on her trauma. Edit (for the record I’m gay myself so no this isn’t out of “homophobia”)

[@Lima_Lima_Lima]

Me too, I "partake" in fandoms but... not that fandom, even though I love the movie 😪

[@MaxxSuri76]

I'm just thinking about Stephanie Beatriz traying to circle around the idea of Encanto being queer with too many words because it's disney so she can't just say "yeah, it's pretty gay actually"

[@arttrixmix7178]

oof i saw that interview as well haha

[@wordswarsandsymphonies]

drop the link sis i need to see this

[@cheebuu3360]

Pls pls what interview was it?

[@Canonicallycreative]

Following to get that link as well

[@ambejbo]

linkkkkkk

[@allyson87]

As the oldest daughter, "pretty one", long time closeted lesbian, who is expected to take care of everyone, I really saw myself in Luisa and Isabela in a way I don't normally see on screen. Many oldest daughters in white families are parentified from a young age and expected to take on many adult roles, especially if lower-middle class/working class, rural, divorced/single parent, and/or religious (my family was all those). But another characteristic of "white culture" is pretending inequality doesn't exist and gaslighting people who speak up about it; this pattern starts in the home. I don't expect to see this dynamic honestly represented in mainstream media with characters that look like me. What's Eating Gilbert Grape is the only thing I can think of that comes close and that movie has sooo many issues I wouldn't know where to start. Just because I see myself in those 2 characters doesn't mean it's now "my movie" or take away from the cultural significance It's possible to relate to characters on a deep individual level and appreciate cultural differences, especially if those characters hold a similar societal role. Scary that so-called progressive people think those are mutually exclusive, but that's just part of my Cassandra complex lol

[@Ollie_nel]

I definitely saw myself in Luisa and Isabella. I was the oldest daughter as well (I've since come out as trans) and I felt the need to be perfect and strong for my siblings because that's what everyone told me to do (the perfect was more implied, but the strong for siblings was explicitly said)

[@JuanitoEsBonito]

in Latin families the oldest daughter taking on roles if also common I was born female however i was the youngest child but since the older daughter was more rebellious they transfered the expectations on to me when I decided to transition to male the expectations would still continue i think they were so set on who they wanted me to be I was shoved into a box.

[@esmee6308]

@@JuanitoEsBonito Not from a Latin family but when my dad passed away my mum placed similar pressure onto us. She was too depressed to take on her role, so I kinda fell into it. Then she remarried and I got an older sister who couldn't cook, clean, do laundry or anything else really.... As bonus when I turned 15 they started to travel the world, so I had to be a parent with zero authority of two teens. Trying to manage our budget whilst having my big sister pull a tantrum she can't have take-away again and I'm supposed to listen to her because she's older. Or that time she was sleeping around and I made the judgement call to get her on birthcontrol and years later it turns out she thought she couldn't get pregnant at all because she was trying and failing and I realised I didn't explain it properly. And now mum wonders why she isn't getting grandkids from me, I've already been a terrible parent once, not trying again.

[@JuanitoEsBonito]

@@esmee6308 that's awful I hope you were able to find some peace and stray away from all the pressure and stress later in life.

[@briciolaa]

yeah that kind of sexism happens almost everywhere sadly. * intersectional feminism intensifies *

[@BuckBlaziken]

As an Asian American, the whole thing about generational stress and pressure speaks to me. Asian parents want their kids to be successful, because in Asian countries success is seen as something valuable that you can give back to your family. Namely, if you’re successful in Asia, you’re semi expected to take care of your parents when they get older. It has roots back in Confucianism and Eastern Asian traditions. That’s why Asian parents have the stereotype of harping on their kids to become “lawyers” and “doctors” and that sort of stress and expectation can be pretty harsh for a child.

[@lllinai]

As a Latina, I see the value on Encanto and why people in our community are so quick to defend it on either side of the argument. But I do take issue with it being held as a gift from the gods, a perfect representation that will solve all issues or that people feel like they have to defend it cause they have nothing else that represents them. At the end of the day, Encanto is a product of capitalism. The creators don’t care, Disney actively harms our communities, and we should not be bending backwards to defend the movie and hold it on a high position.

[@Billibab]

WELL SAID

[@Junoisverysleepy]

This ^^^^ They’re spitting F.A.C.T.S

[@squeen666]

I’m Colombian and didn’t like encanto because it just felt bland, but here’s my actual problems with it and the whole situation It’s really annoying first world people need to be spoon-feed information about other cultures by their own corporations, example: I just googled “Colombian movies with English subtitles” and found at least 20 free to watch movies within the first 4 results, some even here on KZbin, but some people just discovered my country even existed through this movie And I guess I should be happy, at least my country won’t be misspelled with an U instead of an O that much and some people realized there’s black people here in Latin America, so... yay? I mean, I don’t want so say Encanto didn’t do something important, but somehow don’t feel satisfied It’s just... I find it depressing that the cost of representation is having my culture forever be associated to this giant, evil monopoly

[@Billibab]

@@squeen666 FAX

[@Chirashin]

I'm so confused as a bi white Brazilian...where the hell do I fit in this discourse? I'm I considered Latino, too? do i have a say in this?

[@hollyro4665]

The generation defining moment that a group of marginalised people tell another group of marginalised people that they’re marginalising them over an animated Disney movie musical. Honestly it’s one for the history books and the sociology books. Nothing could define these years more perfectly. Welcome to the 2020’s everyone.

[@DineLade]

it's not the 2020s or a generational problem, it's a systemic one. marginalised groups have always been fighting each other under the guise of "they are taking away my resources" (this happens everywhere, see for example poor people who are made to hate immigrants for taking away jobs or made to hate people who can't/don't have a job for exploiting the system in which they have to work so hard in which is dumb cause the real people taking away resources and exploiting the system will always be the ones already in power)

[@neoqwerty]

@@DineLade LOUDER FOR THE ONES IN THE BACK. But no seriously, I'm still in awe at how now that I'm actually understanding what the shit patriarchal capitalism is, everything keeps stemming from it. Misogyny (and the misandry that's really "toxic reverse misogyny")? Patriarchy, motivated by capitalism! Cishetallonormativity? Patriarchy, motivated by capitalism! Classism? Patriarchy, motivated by capitalism! Racism? Patriarchy, motivated by capitalism! It's like the four horsemen of the patriarchy, where the ones who profit are the rich men in power and thanks to christianity, the rich white men in power. And these things can all intersect and fuck shit up even more, because it helps cause power struggles between marginalized groups and it's such obvious "divide and conquer" tactics that I'm always angry when people don't realize the people in power WANT this to continue and they keep trying to fan the flames.

[@Lima_Lima_Lima]

Yes 😔

[@purplespectre]

@@neoqwerty If only we all stop fighting amongst ourselves and unite against our common enemy - the rich, white, cishet, male, Christian, capitalist. Edit: A modern Black Panthers is needed.

[@christurner6330]

@@neoqwerty You know there are millionares that are not white, or that are women, right.....???

[@sundaesprites]

one thing that always rubbed me the wrong way about people against head canons is always calling it a "white thing" like can only white people be queer now??

[@davestriderenthusiast]

right

[@crazydragy4233]

It's almost like homophobia is a big part/context of the culture

[@jumies4056]

@@crazydragy4233 it's almost like there's still queer people from that culture tho (shocking i know LMFAO)

[@littlemoth4956]

I think it's this idea that white people often make themselves a part of the LGBTQ community in order to jump ahead of minorities and/or women in the "oppression olympics" to keep their power dynamic in a rapidly changing society.

[@crazydragy4233]

@@jumies4056 It feels like a lot of people here can't read... Or did I misunderstand you lol? Because my point exclusively depends on queer people being a thing. You can't be -phobic to a thing that ain't real...

[@kevinpeixes3735]

Im not gay, or a member of the LGBTQ+ community, but I am latino. With that being said; this video has really helped me understand more about them so I can be more considerate about different expressions. Te quiero dar las gracias por hacer un video tan fácil de digerir para una persona que no pertenece a esa comunidad, me haz cambiado la vida.

[@kevinpeixes3735]

7 months later, guess who just found out he is bisexual?

[@am1ra.6]

@@kevinpeixes3735 congrats on coming out man I’m happy for you- a bisexual

[@beanceline]

​@@kevinpeixes3735lmao, i was about to say, ive never met a homestuck who isnt lgbt /lh

[@spence6195]

I am half-latino and pansexual, I'm glad that I can see latino representation & somewhat queercoded representation in the same media, I genuinely believe the writers wanted to show both latino and LGBTQ representation in Encanto

[@NebaiArt]

​​@@kevinpeixes3735yyy, historias que pasan 😂😂, no eres el único, y felicidades por tu autodescubrimiento

[@StarStoneWolf]

I've never once seen head cannons as theories. They're more like Fanfiction AU's I see Queer headcanons no differently then how I see Hogwart House headcanons. I doubt many would rage, "You're ignoring the plot of the movie!" If someone put Luisa in Hufflepuff. It's also really worrying that a lot of people's reactions we're, "It's a children's movie!" Implying that having a relationship with the same sex is NSFW...

[@shroederthatboy.4691]

You are very right, thumbs up 👍

[@Very_Silly_Individual]

It literally is but ok💀

[@kitsune630]

@@Very_Silly_Individual but would you describe having a relationship with the opposite sex NSFW? Of course you wouldnt, its drilled into you from the day your born. Little phrases like “oh he’s such a ladies man already” or “ooh shes gonna be a heartbreaker” coupled with being raised on kids movies with straight love stories, these reinforce the idea that straight is the norm and what is the only acceptable form of relationship. People arent cutting out NSFW themes to protect children, they’re erasing queer identities and relationships.

[@BeeBeBees]

I only really make it a problem when they are trying to tell me that their AU IS the plot of the movie but thats more me going "Wtf are you talking about"

[@charlodynatimberheart4860]

I agree, i've never heard headcanons equated to theories. its even in the name, "head" canon. canon in your head but nothing you can take to court

[@pandatlas]

"This movie is not an allegory for being a closeted queer person, it's about the unrealistic expectations and generational trauma" almost like being gay in a "traditionalist" family can lead to unrealistic expectations and generational trauma. Almost.

[@heatherlee2967]

Good point

[@lilowhitney8614]

Parellels isn't the same as allegory and Encanto isn't a movie with queer allegory.

[@Schalla1641]

@@lilowhitney8614 but something being an allegory is an interpretation of media and interpretations are subjective. as long as you can find evidence it's valid. and the video showed that you CAN find evidence for encanto being a queer allegory.

[@peeblekitty5780]

@@lilowhitney8614 Putting aside the subjectivity of that claim, that doesn't make queer readings invalid. They're still fairly supported by the text--whether or not they were focused on or even intended, the parallels are there. Some people relate to the movie's themes through a queer lens, and there's nothing wrong with that.

[@gbdeck200]

Not

[@BeeArtsSE]

I, a non-Colombian latino with generational trauma who saw myself represented in the movie, am literally terrified to post my headcanons

[@frutillajavi]

Colombian*

[@BernardoPatino]

[chanting] post them post them post them! POST THEM!

[@Katzunowo]

Agreed with literally everything you said :)

[@turkyakajsksj]

OMG MY FAV

[@otterzrkuhl]

I saw a girl on TikTok say that hc of Encanto characters being trans women takes away their femininity and it made me sick enough to realize that I am not the person to discuss this topic, so thanks for this video.

[@mooonblooom]

I???????? if you think being a trans woman is less feminine than being a cis woman, then that is just transphobia, plain and simple.

[@demetria-n]

I haven't seen the video yet, but this feels like the right comment to post on. How do you guys feel specifically about the HC of Luisa being trans? I've seen some people say that we shouldn't be taking away the strong female character (mainly saying that the HCers are saying women cannot be "biologically strong"). I've also seen that the majority of people who headcannon this are transfem people who like working out and haven't had surgeries. What are your takes? I personally think that yes, it is nice to have a strong female character, people who see themselves in her shouldn't be hated for HC her as trans, because it doesn't take anything away from her.

[@CrowsILike]

@@demetria-n Depends entirely on the context. Personally? Eh, not my cup of tea. Your example of transfem seeing themselves in Luisa? A+, keep rocking on! However, while I thankfully haven't seen this specifically for Luisa, I have seen trans-headcanons in other fandoms that - intentionally or unintentionally - imply the only reason a women is strong and/or has muscles is because she's AMAB. Usually the HC is meant to be pro-trans, it just ends up unintentionally transphobic/sexist because of ignorance or forgetting context. In general I don't mind what people headcanon. Canon won't be affected any way, so make all the fanwork and headcanons you want! But I will side-eye people who seriously claim their HC is canon. Mostly because I saw so many transpeople be heartbroken or annoyed when yet another "canon transperson" turned out to be either a crossdresser or just not 100% masculine/feminine.

[@otterzrkuhl]

@@demetria-n for me I think as long as it’s not solely based in stereotypes, then it’s ok. I think the idea that making a woman trans means she’s only strong because of the way she was born just enforces the harmful idea that “trans women aren’t real women”. If someone really relates to a character and wants to hc the character to be even more similar to themselves, I don’t really see any harm in it.

[@gothicGumshoe]

@@demetria-n I don't headcanon Luisa as trans, but as a transfem who has a body type similar to hers, I do see myself in her, and that's comforting to me. I don't see anything wrong with that.

[@skizzstar]

“the people agreeing are white” well the people disagreeing are straight? i wrote a poem for a class about the fighting between racism, homophobia, transphobia, and feminism, and how the fighting between just results in silencing and no progress in either, and instead we need to work together and acknowledge the intersectionality a few weeks ago, so thank you very much with a video on this topic :)

[@DominikaHare]

Damn, that sounds like a complex as hell poem. Props for you. I admire people who can make those kind of poems, you know with intent and forethought, as mine are about shoes being sad and carthographic hair. Not very deep I must admit. But yeah. Like goddamn keep being creative.

[@iantaakalla8180]

Good job on expressing nicely the complex topic of intersectionality. I hope you will create more poems.

[@Jane-oz7pp]

The initial statement is also just straight up ignoring the pro-HC POC in the discourse. Because the straights will always wish to separate what they see as "their" culture from queerness.

[@Jane-oz7pp]

as a bisexual, trans, Aboriginal, damn if those arguments don't make me just want to walk tf away from all of society.

[@actualgoblin]

this is kind of a random personal anecdote, but one time i wrote a poem about similar issues for school and ended up winning second place in a contest I didn't even remember entering lol

[@MJ-ru4yc]

Spoiler: there's latin queer people who lives in families with this kind of generational trauma Es como que no puede haber un personaje queer si la película no trata sobre ser queer, que desesperante. Como si nos desaparecieramos cuando empiezan las situaciones de nuestras vidas comunes y corrientes que no tienen que ver con la sexualidad y la identidad de género xd Como una persona bisexual y colombiana, me molesta que la gente lo reduzca todo a la máxima expresión de simpleza

[@dan_asd]

as a brazillian i got scared from that "me molesta" for a second

[@imthebossmermaid3648]

@Dan_OCD lmao me too but I agree with this person.

[@Abel-lt5nr]

no lo pudiste decir de mejor manera! No soy Colombiano pero soy Mexicano. Esto es exactamente lo que siempre me molesta cuando se trata de un personaje queer en una serie o película con temática latina/hispana, que la gente automáticamente dice cosas como "es que su sexualidad/genero no era necesario para la trama"......ugh!!! deberás que se creen que es algo opcional y no algo que es parte de nosotros, de nuestra vida diaria! Además de el echo de que estadísticamente va a haber por lo menos 1-2 personas queer en una familia. Se quejan de que no es necesario, relevante, o realista.....pero eso es exactamente, REALISTA!

[@imthebossmermaid3648]

@@Abel-lt5nr Exactamente, tan feliz que estas de acuerdo.

[@spence6195]

They will only admit it if it's directly focused on a character's non-hetero sexuality, they always assume a male character is in love with the female character though. Even if 2 characters of the same gender show great love for each other they will deny it because the characters didn't explicitly stated they're gay. They did that with Luca & Alberto, they denied it even after the writers revealed that Luca was originally gonna be a gay love story instead of the queercoded one we got. It's just willful ignorance from queerphobes, I do believe Bruno is queercoded, it's not uncommon for families to not talk about the gay relative who became an outcast

[@cosmicjesus2218]

I am half Venezuelan and bi and the fact that you are also Venezuelan and bi makes me love this channel even more. Great takes all around!

[@michellaguna3898]

I'm venezuelan and, now that you mention it, I have a prima segunda (second cousin?? Idk) she is trans and a town icon, but my family basically all cut ties with her and just didn't mention we were family until a carnaval parade where she and other LGBT+ (including the Mayor??? A pleasant surprise??? Kinda??) dressed up and threw condoms from the carroza like they were candy. I was like "MOM! WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL ME SOONER??" and she said something like "He is throwing condoms at the parade. We don't want that kind of attention." Which is sad, because that kind of cemented my decision to remain closeted to her. I don't even know what my cousin's preferred pronouns actually are :( she just presents female and I think had some type of surgery but I don't know if that's just a rumor. It's so sad that about a quarter of the people my age I know are LGBTQA+ (or questioning, or very chill about it) but most of my life growing up my family had these homophobic and transphobic views that I thought were normal.

[@marocat4749]

[@aleks-33]

You should try to reach out. I'm sure she'd like a piece of family. I'm Venezuelan too. Venezuela es demasiado demasiado homo/transfobico.

[@waterwraith1189]

I didn’t know my disowned cousin was gay for years until I realized I was queer myself. Too bad he’s transphobic now tho so we can’t even bond.

[@Jane-oz7pp]

Little trans tip: If you're unsure about their pronouns, neutral pronouns (as long as you're speaking a language that has them- which I'm told is more common globally than gendered ones). Then you're at least not accidentally misgendering them, just not gendering them. Then you can possibly spare their feelings until you get the chance to ask them. 💙

[@넌지금잘하고있어-k4n]

This is almost exact to my own story. My second cousin (we call him "uncle cousin [insert his name]," because he is 15-20 years older than my generation) is gay and has been in his current relationship for 5+ years. I think I only became aware of it when gay marriage and child adoption was up for a referendum here. I know a lot of my family weren't as supportive back then as they are now, but it was actually my great grandma (his grandma, but she raised him as her own child) who made sure he wasn't disowned and she even educated her friends to vote 'YES' for gay rights. Also, his boyfriend is also Venezuelan and a Nurse who's certified for practice both in Venezuela and here, and he gives amazing hugs. So happy for their relationship (and I hope that whatever my future has planned for me, we can all be the supportive queer family members for the younger ones).

[@valgdeluca]

i mean, a headcanon isn't necessarily a theory..... more a "hey, i like this interpretation, and regardless of how likely it is to be the intended one by the source material, I'll apply it to my own thoughts about this thing because I like it better through these lens"

[@tensai_kodai]

Exactly!! The anti-headcanoners give me very big anti-SJW energy. It feels like all the conservatives whining about original poc characters being featured in the new Lord of the Rings. As if latino culture and queer culture are wholy separate when queer latino youth would resoundingly identify with the family trauma Encanto alludes to.

[@GalaxiaStars]

@@tensai_kodai Yeah it does feel very similar to that to me as well. I know it came from leftists mainly in visibilityofcolor's social circle. But I think that shows me how easy it is for leftists to become very similar to anti SJW"s if they're not careful.

[@rx500android]

Exactly!!!

[@dinosaysrawr]

Also, my saucy hot take is that if a member of the target demographic for Spongebob Squarepants has missed the DEEPER MEANING and HISTORICAL CONTEXT of Les Miserables, and is instead using it as fodder for their shipping fanfics, you aren't doing anybody any favors by bullying them for it. Let children enjoy things on their level, and *gently* scaffold them to expand their perspective over time. I feel so bad for that autistic kid who got bullied for his Encanto headcanon TikToks, and I can't imagine that actually helped to educate him or expand his perspective in a healthy way!

[@CrowsILike]

@@GalaxiaStars Yeah, as someone who's been in fandoms for a very long time? It was the weirdest whiplash seeing young leftists repeat pretty much the same arguments I saw from straight white dudebros in the late 90's/early 00's about lgbtq+ headcanons.

[@seopark7467]

All the anti-hc positions also re-articulate old homophobic rhetoric as well. I keep seeing comments like "why do you queers always make everything about being gay" and make it seem okay by inserting "white queers"

[@seopark7467]

I have so many more thoughts about this. "Encanto isn't about being gay it's about generational trauma" forget the role colonialism plays in homophobia and heteronormativity and how homophobia and generational trauma are rooted in colonial oppression. Generational trauma informs homophobia. AHHH

[@helenaoliveira3248]

In fact, generational trauma can indeed come from deeply rooted homophobia/transphobia as well! It's also a reason why queer people see themselves so much in these movies where generational trauma or toxic familial bonds are depicted - the strain between family members can indeed be created by holding onto outdated gender roles and/or homophobic beleifs. I also hate reading the "you queers keep sexualizing kids' movies" argument. Sexuality can affect a plethora of things in someone's identity and interaction with the world around them, and it can go from how they dress and their mannerisms to their familial relationships; either because of the micro cultures the community creates, or because of oppression and trauma that can come from it, etc. People see themselves and their experiences in these characters, and they are not necessarily thinking about sexual/romantic scenarios with the characters when they assign them a sexuality. Usually it's about a broader experience with identity

[@cjboyo]

This! Some people use “white queer person” or “white trans person” as an excuse to be queerphobic while claiming you’re being progressive

[@Ollie_nel]

Agreed. I feel like people forgot that even if you are a part of an oppressed group, you can still play a part in the oppression of others, even if one or more of the other person's identities are privileged. Privilege with one identity doesn't take away the oppression that come with the other.

[@flask223]

Reminds me of when ppl complain about “white girls” when they’re really just complaining about girls

[@КинТацу]

I'm a white AFAB queer person, and I was a "gifted child". I relate to Isabella really strongly because of my dynamic with my parents. They thought I was perfect. They wanted me to be the family's golden child. Perfect flower. And when I discovered the rainbow of ways I could exist outside of this label, I was shocked, just like Isabella was. So yea, with all due respect, I don't understand why ppl think that this is exclusively Latino narrative, when, even putting queer allegories (I mean, literal rainbows and not wanting to marry?) aside, it's a story applicable to every gifted child in some part. Even if they're white, or straight, or a man. Granted, that's probably a more complete depiction of experience of a latina woman, who is a gifted child and maybe queer, but like.... it's also relatable for many other kinds of ppl.

[@tootthpick]

As a gay nerodivergent Latino, I really saw myself in Bruno. I really saw myself in Bruno as I am basically the outcast of my family. So that’s why I headcanon Bruno as a gay nurodivergent man, because I am one myself and I really feel like I have a character to connect to. So telling latino people to not have these head canons feels really weird to me. Especially if the person saying this isn’t queer nurodivergent or Latino

[@horrorhistory7342]

Yeah I’m not Latino myself but I’m mixed race, and queer and neurodivergent and I immediately saw so much of myself in Bruno even the first time I watched encanto, so to see the whole discourse popping up is wild.

[@thedukeofweasels6870]

It's just sad that these marginalized communities are so desperate for representation that they feel like they have to fight over any sliver they get I understand the feeling of we finally have something of our own just let us have this don't turn it into something it's not but at the same time recognizing that both parties are looking for the same thing mainstream media that they can relate to the movie can be both concepts neither concepts or one of the concepts all simultaneously because art is subjective each individual can take from it what they need

[@kellharris2491]

Why do you get to say this is ours and not yours? Legitimately. You don't own it.

[@trickytreyperfected1482]

@@kellharris2491 It's funny because, last I checked, Disney is the only one that owns it :p

[@brian_Austin27]

Exactly people are stupid that's why I stop interacting with people who do this same thing with Turning Red and Louca

[@meimeilei]

Are Latinos marginalized? Their telenovelas are incredibly popular in my country

[@goodnightgoodnightgoodnight]

@@meimeilei yes, latinos are incredibly marginalized, especially in places like the US. for example, a huge chunk of trumps political campaign was to build a wall to keep latinos from crossing the mexican border into the US, and he actively spread the belief that illegal immigrants from mexico and south america would bring (in his words) more "killers, criminals and rapists" into the country. the fact that he won the election and has thousands of people supporting him to this day speaks volumes on how latino people are viewed in the US

[@viomusardathefluffysealgas9347]

What I don't like is the separation people make between being Colombian and LGBTQIA+, and it does a huge disservice to all the LGBTQIA+ people living in Colombia. Being Colombian and LGBTQIA+ go together. I'm Latinx living in a Latin American and I like the LGBTQIA+ interpretations, Latin culture and LGBTQIA+ go together

[@adrianagalvisgil2618]

As an asexual and aromantic closeted colombian I agree. However I don't like the associaton people make with religion and national identity, like not being Catholic/Christian makes anybody belong less to the Colombian culture. Like sure, it still has a huge influence, but it's changing and even people that belong to those religions are much more open minded than media likes to represent us

[@aazhie]

Yes it upsets me that people are just excluding their fellow Columbians who are not straight and/or cis from claiming something not openly explained in the story- but easily metaphorical for being closeted or shunned by family. It's sad, because a queer reading doesn't exclude the nationality of any character..

[@pandatlas]

It's homophobic and racist in and of itself to imply gay people can't be Colombian and Colombian people can't be gay. Good post

[@awawa5668]

You lost me when you said latinx

[@naniandrea3344]

Yeah just gotta keep watching the underwealming lackluster representation from caracol and RCN I guess

[@blink4blackpink158]

i’ve literally never seen any white people completely look over the plot of the movie and only focus on their sexualities. i think people just say that cause they don’t wanna acknowledge that queer poc people can exist and struggle with more than one issue. like isabella could be dealing with her sexuality AND the pressure from her family, there can be more than one message in a movie. obviously the family trauma is the biggest one and i haven’t seen anyone discounting that, queer people just identify with isabella being pressured by her family. also, diane has said isabella is gay

[@ijm1261]

Good point, also most importantly Hello fellow Blink.

[@JackedThor-so]

Here's the kicker - on Twitter a while back? A viral tweet went around verbally castrating Saberspark and others for supporting the diversity of Encanto because "It's Disney," therefore, "not good enough," and if you don't support ACTUAL South American films "you're part of the problem." I had to extract myself from these social medias and these discourses for that exact reason. We want change, yet, when we get something that is a clear indication of that change, it's thrown out because it isn't good enough. Nothing will EVER be good enough for you, Becky.

[@AllTheArtsy]

The thing is, sometimes things just are NOT good enough tho. Like, I'm sorry, but if you're bi and the best Disney can give you is Loki saying "or princes" in a move that you could have blinked or sneezed and you missed it, that's not good enough. Sometimes, when someone gives you crumbs, you can call it crumbs and not be so thankful that you were given a "slice"

[@firefancy9928]

@@AllTheArtsy I don't understand how that's comparable when the topic OP was talking about was cultural diversity. Do you want Disney to only make movies about white people and to only have a white cast?

[@AllTheArtsy]

@@firefancy9928 I want people to not only get or demand representation from Disney

[@Gxylord]

Saberspark also addressed that take in his video of Encanto??? Did the person just not watch the video????

[@tiqqun333]

Hey im from Colombia and i was wondering if this about the tweet from Carolina Sanin? If its not im pretty sure its similar. From my understanding the point is you can enjoy whatever you want including encanto but that will only serve as assimilation and personal satisfaction, and all people are asking is for you to have critical thinking as a consumer. Like, you can enjoy encanto but maybe wonder why do u want to support and give money to a company like Disney, and why arent you more invested in actual colombian productions. Of course, these are not mutually exclusive but are sometimes the case. Personally i dont like disney movies or assimilationist narratives and i avoid that type of media, so it wasnt hard for me to just not watch it, but a lot of people got to enjoy them through other mediums that didnt involve giving disney money.

[@neonbat666]

Yeah, I'm in camp: "Why not both?". In my opinion there's nothing wrong with making queer (or other kinds) headcanons. I even have my own! It's totally fine to have multifaceted interpretations of media. However, I will admit it's a tad frustrating when the headcanons either become stereotypical or flanderizing, or when people act like it canonical truth and that you're a bad person for not agreeing with them.

[@cidevant002]

While many of the people arguing about this, who aren't even latine and less than anything colombian, Colombia has a thriving LGBT+ culture and has more legal protections than in "developed countries" in the First World. Queer and latino identity were never contradictory, and anyone saying otherwise either is a full blown queerphobe and/or has never met anything but queerphobe latines. Also, the fact that this "discourse" was at it's peak when Colombia was going through some real shit that nobody but other Latines living in Latin america talked about will never not stop being sadly funny.

[@lyatahiri6191]

dude colombia is what? maybe we are more progressive than other latinamerican countries but i certainly wouldn't call Colombia one of the most queer friendly place in the entire world. Maybe just bogotá and even that is pushing it a little.

[@gearbear4530]

Colombia is what? LMAO

[@cidevant002]

@Lya Tahiri You are really understimating how NON queer friendly the rest of the world is, dude. A country that allows gay marriage, doesn't linch queer people on the street and doesn't define itself by it's queerphobia is queer friendly by definition. Also, that is literally what queer colombian organizations say too. Google about that. You guys have an actual entire LGBT+ district with it's own openly LGBT+ representatives.

[@cidevant002]

@@gearbear4530 A country that allows gay marriage, doesn't linch queer people on the street and doesn't define itself by it's queerphobia is queer friendly by definition. Also, that is literally what queer colombian organizations say too. Google about that. You guys have an actual entire LGBT+ district with it's own openly LGBT+ representatives.

[@lyatahiri6191]

@@cidevant002 by "queer district" you probably mean Bogota, where Claudia Lopez, a lesbian woman, is mayor, pretty shitty at her job of protecting marginalized comunities and just shitty at her job in general so it's not like that's a win in the lgbtq+ colombian comunity's book, but it also ignores the fact that a few months ago some crazy dude interrupted one of her public events to tell her she was going to hell, when she won there was outrage because she published a picture kissing her wife AND her oponent was pretty openly homophobic. Just last week i was on the bus and they were saying on the radio a trans woman had been found dead with signs of torture, and that wasn't the first time something like that has happened this year. This country is deeply catholic and some of its most prominent politicians are openly anti-lgbtq+, they are still against any kind of gender identity talk because that's "indoctrinating children" Colombia is definitely not one of the most queer friendly places in the world when all we do is the bare minimun.

[@Bl4ckDr4co]

It's really bugged me this entire time that gay readings on Encanto are explicitly referred to as "YT" readings by most ppl against it... as if there are no lgbt latine ppl. So glad you addressed that.

[@viveleshistoires4874]

Yeah like, some of these people are making it sound like being queer is « a white thing »… Which is kind of confusing to me.

[@Toiletdeer]

​@@viveleshistoires4874 I guess having family be queer is more of an "issue" over there that they want to erase (not trying to be racist, I'm just unfamilliar). At least where I'm from, white families seem to be more accepting of lgbt stuff than poc families so that's probably the excuse made by non-white anti-lgbt families to pretend that their fam can't be queer too. (it's extra weird because in these kinds of families the lgbt and non-neurotypical people get the most familial trauma)

[@ExtremeWreck]

@@Toiletdeer Yeah, I bet you there are many LGBT+ people in those regions that don't want to admit it because they're scared that they'll get blacklisted by everyone around them. There's even evidence around here in the US that there are homophobes out there that are homosexuals themselves, but don't want to admit it for the same reasons.

[@StrawberryAndPepperJelly]

As a queer Latino, what kinda makes me bothered with some Headcanons is the fact that those headcanons are being made with the queer culture and symbols of The United states and other non-latino countries. I personally don't mind the headcanons outside of just the feeling of weirdness of when people mix the "american" queer-culture with a latino story, since, as a latino I already have an idea of how queer people behave within my culture. (Sorry for any mispelings, english is not my first language, and I hope I can get my point across.)

[@rigelestbit]

Sorry, could you please elaborate? I'm also queer and from South America, and I wasn't aware there was a huge difference between both queer cultures. Unless I'm just clueless, really (which is a huge possibility)

[@StrawberryAndPepperJelly]

I'm not really good with words, so I apologize if i'm unable to explain my point well. If you look closely into how culture affects the behaviours of queer people in different cultures, you will be able to see the differences between queer people from the united estates and other non-latino countries and queer people from latino countries. Things such as inside jokes, the way they dress, the way they speak, what they consider to be "affeminate" or "masculine", etc. I hope this awnser helps.

[@peeblekitty5780]

replying mostly for notifications! Anyone have examples of cultural behaviors and in-jokes and whatnot among both respective queer communities, for reference on what to include and what to avoid? No pressure to reply of course just hoping to get right all i can when i write them.

[@wiseathena97]

@@peeblekitty5780 So I am personally not Latina and can't speak on that but I noticed one thing people were discussing online was Encanto's use of color as a representation for how queer a character is. Specifically, in What Else Can I Do there's a lot of changes in both Isabella's surroundings and her dress going from a traditional fem color (pink) to more rainbow/multicolored (I believe the colors of her dress are the same as the Columbian flag). A lot of people used this as a visual representation for her coming out as in America, colorful stuff is very strongly linked to the queer community, if that makes sense? Whereas in a lot of other cultures, that shift in colors doesn't really mean anything. I am personally Asian and lots of traditional clothing is incredibly vibrant and multicolored so I didn't think anything of that scene whereas other Americans (specifically white Americans) may have interpreted it differently.

[@peeblekitty5780]

@@wiseathena97 interesting thank you! /gen

[@nathanwilliams1865]

I identified heavily with Bruno from Encanto. Yes, I’m white. But I’m bisexual and trans, and I have been casted aside by my family. I haven’t seen my mom since I was 15, and I haven’t lived with any family since I was 17. While yes, some of this was by choice for my own well being, other parts of this was because they kicked me out of their lives. I don’t think I’ve ever had a “Bruno is trans” head canon. But I still identified heavily with the character, and I could empathize with the way his family swept his entire existence under the rug. And I’m not sure why this isn’t talked about, but white people can have generational trauma too? Sure, it’s rare. But my great grandfather started a damn cult and moved 200 people across the country to the swamp, and they convinced people that my grandfather was a freakin prophet. My father and his siblings didn’t get out until my grandfather died from his blood alcohol levels in the 90’s. And what did they do? They did the same thing that they did with me. They swept it under the rug. They didn’t deal with the problems. Then I was born. I don’t wanna talk over anyone’s voice…. But that’s generational trauma?

[@necrodeus6811]

Yeah, that'll give a little trauma 😟

[@sapphicmorena5791]

And you're not! The notion that white people can't have generational trauma is really weird?? Sure, chattel slavery or European colonialism won't be a white person's source of generational trauma (assuming this white person is not mixed), but your elders can be shitty and perpetuate harmful behaviors and attitudes for generations. That's not race-specific. Really sorry to hear how your family has treated you. Hope you can find and enjoy life with your chosen family--I personally find that bonds with people you choose to be in your life tend to be way more important anyway.

[@apenasmaisumdiogo.7115]

Pepa is white and is one of the characters with more psychologial bagage of the film, any people can have generational trauma.

[@gloop7458]

Generational trauma is incredibly common and most white families have it. It's just usually a lot less and lot more subtle because white people have not been colonized/f*cked with from the outside to the same extent. (and China, Japan, and India, which are the biggest countries population wise in the world, became democracies (let's ignore that China still isn't for a moment) a lot later than European countries did. Government policies and economic climate effect parenting a lot more than you would think)

[@rosetea6590]

I would hope that most other POC would take the common sense thinking that Encanto is about Latino specific trauma but trauma and how it affects people who aren't Latino can relate. Though I think POC can be protective when white folks try to say the trauma is the same or equal when oftentimes it's not.

[@HPFireYT]

Fandom seems to have gotten more toxic over recent years and it’s a bit concerning. I know there have always been intense people in fandom, but with the internet becoming more of a collective hub with barely any filtering, it’s hard to avoid the parts of fandom that aren’t for you. At this point I’m just afraid of Twitter in general…

[@chickenwithitsheadcutoff]

yeah like the discourse piles on so much so fast these days. on one hand, i'm able to see more nuanced takes online than i used to, but on the other hand, i'm also getting a lot more of the opposite. modern fandoms seem to come up with and stick to a collective "correct" or "most correct" fanon interpretation a lot quicker as well, and i think these two things might be related in some way but i can't really articulate how

[@basilbat273]

Recent yearS child this fandoms been here for half a year Jesus

[@chickenwithitsheadcutoff]

@@basilbat273 i think they meant fandom in general, not just the encanto fandom

[@basilbat273]

@@chickenwithitsheadcutoff ooooooh

[@kf10147]

I wholeheartedly believe that subjecting fandom to algorithms has caused this. Tumblr is literally so chill bc on my tumblr I control who I see content from and don't interact with drama. An algorithm gets more views by pushing drama so that's what fandom is on algorithm-based sites. Forums, discord, and tumblr are wins better than tiktok or twitter for fandom for that reason.

[@cecisappia7501]

As an Argentinian queer woman who got to see this unfold because i was lucky to learn english, this is a banger take, wonderfully expressed and a very nuanced read of the situation. Also I probably spend too much time on the internet lmao, this got me invested a whole lot.

[@freamhipstro]

I've always been confused by this discourse because has anyone ever taken headcanons to THAT extreme? Like whenever I say *_"MONDO OWADA IS TRANS AND WEARS THOSE BANDAGES AS A BINDER. SORRY GUYS I DONT MAKE THE RULES."_* That's clearly ironic. Like exaggerated to the point that somehow, I, a 17 year old trans boy has the authority to state whether or not a goddamn Danganronpa character is trans and that no one is allowed to have a different interpretation otherwise. Sure I like the headcanon, and I feel seen by art where he IS wearing binders and have top scars. I even headcanon some of my favorite characters as Filipino sometimes because I'M Filipino. But I never deny that these headcanons are not meant to be taken as fucking gospel. So i'm wondering... am I just oblivious to deep fandom culture where they take this as is, completely seriously. Or is it outsiders looking in and completely misinterpreting clearly exaggerated posts? Or am I some sort of exception to this crazy new norm, I literally do not have any idea.

[@marislolz]

I agree with you, headcanons are just supposed to be these silly little things we add to characters in our own mind because it's fun or because we see ourselves in them. Like I headcanon bami as enby because I keep forgetting his gender but like I also understand that that's just a silly little me thing.

[@AllTheArtsy]

The internet was made for hot takes, so it doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is to have the hottest take. Thanks for reading my hot take. That's not actually very hot, but oh well.

[@sarinabina5487]

ayyy i hc Mondo as trans as well🤝

[@serroy]

i spend a lot of time on pinterest and when somebody hcs an encanto character they usually just put the sexuality's flag or they put it in between a bunch of other hcs. it's not aggressive at all.

[@omegaforcezero5440]

When people start taking things that came ot of 2010´s tumblr this seriuosly we have a problem. Roy Mustang can be a trans man, Bruno can be as gay as you want; because it affects the twelve people that follow your blog, tops. People need to chill

[@sophiekrueger4719]

Have people forgotten that there can be multiple interpretations of the same work, or did everybody else a little younger than me skip English (or language equivalent) class? Media can be seen through many different lenses and that doesn't make anybody's interpretation more or less correct than anybody else, we're just seeing it through different angles.

[@SkyeID]

I wish more people realized this. I'm 46, and I remember when there was no internet 2.0, and people had conversations in real life. Back in those days, seeing things from a different lens wasn't contested by an army of a million chronically online, narrow-minded keyboard warriors who think that way they see the world is the right way, and they're not afraid to tell you how they feel- with a lot of shit posting and cyber bullying.

[@cassielcruzchavolla809]

Honestly as someone within Camp D , I still don't get the anti-hc stand , much less the passion behind it. Thanks for this video the lack of acknowledgement of intersection in this discourse was giving me a headache.

[@AllTheArtsy]

Imagine you are not white, and then a rare piece of media comes around that specifically represents you, and then the whites descend to argue if the characters are gay or not. There, hope that helps.

[@cassielcruzchavolla809]

@@AllTheArtsy I don't have to imagine like I said I'm in the queer latino pov I just don't think (rather I know) queerness and latino culture are not mutually exclusive

[@Misora7303]

@@AllTheArtsy But...I am latina and queer, you can be both without the other being a contradiction, why would I be upset by having latino representation and a queer HEADCANON? The people that I´ve seen headcaning this weren´t just white americans and this headcanons don´t change the movie, a movie btw, that was made to appeal to a general audience.

[@QuikVidGuy]

@@AllTheArtsy and here we go blaming "the whites" and deliberately erasing all the latine people who were headcanoning and being accused of the same thing

[@basilbat273]

@@AllTheArtsy so you just erase me and what I have to say as a queer Latino? what kinda white savior bullshit is that "we need to ingrore what they have to say to protect them from white people"

[@destinydoughnut8984]

Half-Mexican bi here! About ¼ of my family is homophobic, and I hate having to hide part of myself from them with fear of being shunned. My extended family is pretty big, and statistically, there's got to be a few other queer people there, but I'll probably never know due to that prejudice against queer people Sucks to see younger people trying to erase queer hispanic people just like older generations have

[@zoren3320]

why use Latinix?

[@EVERYONELOVESLAUE]

@@zoren3320 Ik right just say Latin or Hispanic?

[@lulu_TheWitchBoy]

Pls don’t say Latinx

[@accleria3892]

the encanto discourse not only shows how people engage with intersectionality (or the lack thereof) but also shows how thinking in such binary ways seems to be the go-to for social media disccusions due to how algorithms work. plus it also doesn't help that the queer headcannon discourse mostly happens on tik tok which has a large child user base. kids aren't really the arbiters of nuance, lol

[@ravenhorn3148]

I still haven't gotten a chance to watch Encanto but, when this video started talking about the "black sheep" well, I was instantly reminded of my late Uncle. I'm Puertoriqueño, and also a trans-woman and lesbian. And really, the only one [until recently when my mother started to open up to fix our relationship] the only one on that side of the family I was close with, was my Uncle. Someone who married once had a single child divorced and never seemed interested in any other women. Almost as if he did it out of a sense of obligation more than anything else. And I don't think I've ever been able to put into words or really process our bond and how it in some ways also put me as a bit of a black sheep to the family as well. But somehow, this video, managed to do that. So I thank you.

[@thedukeofweasels6870]

28:32 to say it's not a queer narrative but it's about unrealistic expectations and generational trauma as if that's not something most queer people can relate to!

[@isabella7131]

exactly!!

[@KookiesNolly]

dude for real! that comment was so ignorant and tone deaf.

[@D3niz3n]

A headcanon isn't even a theory. It's a personal interpretation. A canon you keep within your head. And, at least the majority of the time, hcs are harmless fun-perhaps even comforting. It isn't someone saying "X happened/is true" in the movie or show or whatever media they've consumed, it's them saying "I like to imagine X happened/is true." Dismissing/insulting someones hcs in the way people are doing with Encanto is pretty gatekeep-y.

[@infinity-skies1207]

not to mention how the anti-hc folks completely lost it at the idea of mental illness or disability in encanto, even when the direct conversations were "i experience that" and "thats really common in my culture, its interesting to see how that was portrayed" and just... in general it came across as perpetuating the idea that there are no latinos who are mentally ill or disabled. so im glad its being discussed, because its really tiring. tysm

[@BrieBoar]

Oh, yeah. It was really disappointing to see the amount of people saying things like "Ew, don't say Bruno isn't neurotypical, that's gross! Don't say the man who spent ten years hiding from his family in their own house could possibly be anything but mentally stable! Mental disorders are disgusting!" Especially because the entire narrative is about Mirabel not having the same abilities as the rest of her family, and being belittled, ignored, or mocked because of it. Nope, no neurodivergent or disabled person could /possibly/ relate to that.

[@sling4425]

watched this twice now and I think this is one of the most important encanto videos out there. tiktok fandom was so awful about this movie, and you can still feel its impact in fanfics/fanart bc of how scared off people got because of this discourse. peace on earth if encanto fandom had been intersectional from the beginning.

[@naelpontes8444]

Thank you for talking about the prevalence of conservative catholic families in Latin America. As a latino with a very homophobic extended family, what bothered me so much about those people gatekeeping the movie was how it made it feel like gay demonization as well. I know it's not a central part of the movie, but c'mon, why can't it be if someone wants to? People saying "not everything has to be about sexuality" literally sounded like one of my father's homophobic monologues.

[@Fallen_Angel_AA]

As a gay Colombian guy, I just wanna thank you for explaining so perfectly my thoughts and feelings on all of the anti-queer discourse around Encanto, I watched a video here on KZbin, about how having queer interpretations was forcing diversity where it didn't belong, it felt like I was being told I wasn't allowed to exist as a complex individual, but had to be reduced to my ethnicity. I'm glad someone finally express the truth in such a comprehensive way, I can be gay and Colombian, and so could the characters in the movie.

[@rickyslost3231]

It’s strange how much the anti hc crowd seems to be implying that gay Colombians don’t exist?? Also thank you so much for this video, I was avoiding this discourse like the plague

[@shitsu3179]

Colombians*

[@Lima_Lima_Lima]

"The plague" 😂

[@rickyslost3231]

@@shitsu3179 thank you! My bad

[@laurelanatidae2633]

Soy Colombiana, no neurotípica, y pansexual. Me identifique mucho con Mirabel y sobretodo me dijeron que me parecía a ella, no solo físicamente alc xD. Por cierto, amo mucho tus videos, intento aprender y acostumbrarme al listening con ellos

[@gloop7458]

The fact that I'm an English native who knows barely any Spanish (Although I did grow up with Spanish spoken around me, just not regularly enough to learn it) and I can understand the bulk of this comment is wild

[@pencils7351]

​@@gloop7458 English and Spanish do have a lot of cognates and the grammar is understandable despite its differences if you only know one. Plus, even a small amount of exposure helps. I watched Dora a lot as a little kid, and I think it helped when I actually tried learning Spanish later bc I'm a natural (I had an A in Spanish and an F in English at one point lol)

[@daneroberts1996]

Which university classroom did Alex break into to film this video, i wonder

[@ernestoagapitogarcesconyad1710]

breaking into classrooms is a quintessential part of the college experience

[@max-playlist]

I guess that's where the crimes part comes in for 'be gay do crimes'

[@fernandafuentes6858]

I think this discourse can be summed up into 'gringos live in a bubble and they forget that gay people also exist in latin america'

[@junjunjamore7735]

Do American Latinos count as gringos too?

[@robertalopezvi]

agreed

[@shitsu3179]

@@junjunjamore7735 I suppose it'd depend

[@taithedie]

THIS

[@MeMyselfnUm]

Me gusta la iluminación bisexual en todo el video

[@ulawan5]

I have the Encanto tag blocked on tumblr because I haven't seen the movie (and also don't have a tiktok), and hearing about this discourse is like driving past a fight in a parking lot Great video though! Intersectionality is so so important!!!! Thank you for laying it out so well!

[@tangerine1884]

BAHAHSHSHD IM WHEEZING

[@nightpotato7428]

as a lesbian columbian, when I first saw the movie (and the 50 other times I saw the movie) all I could think was that some form of it represented lgbtq+ culture. But I would also never ignore the fact that this movie is about columbian culture and representation. It's utterly important and i'm glad that you brought this topic up.

[@shitsu3179]

Colombian*

[@Wondahoez]

This video is so important... I remember during this headcanon feeling so left out and ignored as someone who was part hispanic and queer. It made me feel this really sad sense of loneliness and exclusion I hadn't really felt since middleschool. It was really depressing to see two aspects extremely important to myself and identity be pinned against each other. Relating queerness to being white is inherently harmful and excludes those who are queers of color and even have that queerness affect their cultural experience, while on the other hand, it is important that white people don't stay willfully ignorant on the culture of latino people when discussing cultural aspects of the film. Those middle ground ideas are so important to consider and discuss, especially since it is going to include people who are directly experiencing both sides. Idk, all in all, it was a really shitty feeling to feel so excluded from communities that are supposed to be supporting me, and I'm sure many other queer latinos felt the same. This video put it into the words I never could.

[@antoniom9332]

man, thank you for this video. it’s been so disheartening seeing young people fully embrace homophobic rhetoric because of this movie. i’m queer and salvadoreño and i watched encanto in theaters, literally the week it came out! when i walked out i immediately texted my friends about how subtextually gay this movie was, how bruno and mirabel and isabela SCREAM gay. we’re all queer and poc and picked up on these readings bc that’s just our lived experience. i didn’t particularly think of any of our discussions as headcanoning, more so as just a way to read art. and then a few weeks later, when it went on disney plus, everyone lost their mind. being yelled at online by (usually non-latino lol!) strangers, told i’m racist and told i don’t understand the struggles latinos go through, all bc i called bruno gay, was just insane. like do you people hear yourselves? all these gay white kids, desperately trying to seem progressive, teaming up with homophobic latinos to yell at a bunch of gays was so disgusting. a very bleak phenomenon.

[@musicaljumbalaya9756]

This whole thing confused me… how does seeing someone as LGBTQ+ erase culture? I can personally see mirabel being bi but also i still see the beautiful culture of Colombia. How does seeing her as bi prevent seeing the culture?

[@SaikiKFann]

Because people say Alma hated her because she was Bisexual when in reality she cast to the side for not being useful in her families eyes

[@helenanilsson5666]

@@SaikiKFann Right, but in reality both Mirabel and Alma are fictional. Real people do not have magical powers (but fun fact: queer latinos ARE real). If the end result is the same (family conflict) then I don't really see why a queer reading would be a problem. Never mind that a person can have a family conflict *both* because they are queer and because they are perceived as not useful for the family. These concepts are not mutually exclusive.

[@Mezzy..]

23:42 "the problem is not the hcs. Its the people taking something that clearly isn't for them and claiming it" they aren't taking or "claiming" anything from you. You can still watch and enjoy the film, and not get bothered by absolutely everything you see on the internet

[@faridmyd]

It's usually the non-latine or latine-Americans who are very out of touch with actual latine culture who would attack a 13-year-old for having a [headcannon] about a fictional piece of media. As a latino who was born, raised, and still lives in Latin America. You can be latino and queer, they are NOT mutually exclusive identities. I would have definitely had a queer Encanto headcannon at that age if no other queer content was available to me. Everyone is allowed to have their own interpretations of the media they consume, even more so a 13-year-old kid, especially if this does not take away from the "original intent" of the piece of media.

[@deli5194]

i mean especially bruno. we allhad that guncle no one talks about. wether youre from middle east like me or colombia.

[@victai7014]

@@deli5194 GUNCLE LOL

[@coe3408]

Can a Latin-American who doesn't speak English and has never used social media be "queer"?

[@taithedie]

As another latino who was born, raised, and lives in Latin America: THANK YOU

[@theunnamed2517]

The only hc I’ve heard about that I ultimately have a problem with is Luisa being trans. As a south Asian cis woman, I’ve been asked if I am actually a guy by white boys who wish they could grow better leg hair than me; it hurts. One of my “friends” literally introduces me to new people by saying I’m trans to mess with them, though apologise after seeing I’m upset, still repeatedly do this until they remember. My biggest insecurities are my “masculine” features, my jawline, my facial and body hair, my broad shoulders, etc... (which are all common among south Asian women). It’s always women, and it’s always because of a trait that diverges away from traditional (white) feminine beauty standards. I mean do you ever hear theories if someone is a trans man? It’s insulting not just to cis women who have more masculine traits, but trans women (as if saying they will never be feminine enough to pass). And if I, a CIS woman feels so insecure, I can’t imagine how trans people must feel, especially if any of their “masculine” features remain. Ultimately, if they’re trans, you shouldn’t be able to tell or even theorise (unless maybe if they’re non-binary or transitioning). I feel that way about anyone trying to guess if someone is cis/trans. It really rubs me the wrong way. I completely get relationships and sexuality though, because you may be able to tell someone’s romantic interests (or lack of) based on interactions with other people.

[@taithedie]

YES YES YES I'm a latino who is part of the LGBTQ+ community and this whole "you can't headcanon Encanto characters as queer!" discourse pissed me off so much

[@Flame_melon]

Why can’t people just accept that it’s ok for other people have different headcanons then them when they seem perfectly capable of accepting that in other fandoms?

[@UdoADHD]

People are taking this way too seriously. The head canon is basically fan fic. Let kids be kids. It’s not hurting anyone.

[@tiffanyy6376]

l love how one of the tiktok comments is like "they did the same with Luca" like, what, that movie takes place in Italy

[@hellothepixel1107]

Also, as someone whos probably maybe transfem, i think the Louisa trans HCs shouldn't be necessarily based on transphobic stereotypes. For example, for many transfems it feels like they are uncomfortable with their heights, and I am in the same camp. So when I design transfem ocs i like to make them taller than everyone but still very femenine, to see myself in them. The same thing could be with Louisa. And there's a lot of dysphoria you could read into a transfem character who has a trait that's overly associated with masculinity. Of course it's very important to have muscular cis female characters too, because they're still rare. I just feel there's space for both.

[@aniflowers1998]

I think the reason people are ticked off by that one in particular, is becouse it's a repeated headcanon stereotype in a lot of fandoms. It's always the feminin boy character, or the maskulin female character that get headcanoned as trans. If it where, to make it verry simple, just Luisa that got headcanoned as trans becouse of her body, people would probably be less anoyed by it. But becouse people see that reocuring patern stretch itselfe through multiple fandoms, they grow more and more anoyed about it. (And that's leaving out the situations in which the headcanons are so stereotypical that they don't even make logical sense anymore. Or the situations where people ger super toxic and try to push their headcanons onto everyone by attacking those who don't agree with them)

[@Jane-oz7pp]

transfemme here also, and yea, I found Luisa to be both relatable and relieving. Why yes, I can be huge, tough *and* a feminine woman. My muscles, bones and height don't make me less of a woman, and neither does my being the tough one of my family.

[@Jane-oz7pp]

@@aniflowers1998 I get that, however I think people missed the big difference between Luisa and the rest of them. She was born to be how she is and it's a *gift* not something that is made the butt of the joke, while also still highlighting how her strength and size gets her relegated to strongman work. Her struggles as a result of her musculature and size are a point of sorrow, for us to empathize with. I would say that that is good representation, even if it's only my reading of an otherwise not trans character. There is rarely going to be a trans character that doesn't have issues relating to their assigned gender, and if there was, I don't think many of us would find that relatable at all.

[@soflovesmatcha]

But it also plays on the masculinization of poc women. It's pretty tricky territory.

[@Jane-oz7pp]

@@soflovesmatcha How? Pretty much the entire rest of her family is also POC, you realise this, yea? If Isabela, Mirabel and Dolores were also masculinized you'd have a point. But also I've never come across a trope of Latinas being masculinized, in media they're usually hyperfeminized, masculinization is a trope generally reserved for black women specifically.

[@ositaiza888]

this was a well made video. i'm half mexican and queer, and it felt rlly weird to have see ppl act like those things couldn't coexist. i even saw other queer latine ppl take that stance which just made me check out

[@clover6499]

The worst thing about arriving early is that I can't read funny comments while watching because there are none

[@ConnorLonergan]

There there *pats back*

[@blinkfilms1]

Right here with you

[@blockofgrass7928]

Mood

[@IceFireofVoid]

I don’t think any headcanon is a problem at all. It doesn’t affect anyone else. It doesn’t change canon or any other headcanon interpretations that are different. It only becomes a problem when people try to impose their headcanon on others or try to suggest their headcanon is morally superior to everyone else’s. Example: you can headcanon Camilo as nonbinary. You can use they/them pronouns for the character in your work. However, you shouldn’t call people who don’t share the headcanon transphobic or try to “correct” any “misgendering” other people have of the character. And the reverse is true. No reason to harass anybody who just made a fanfic/fanart where that character is depicted as nonbinary.

[@nyotaakito4979]

Thank you for talking about this. I stumbled about a KZbin video called „the encanto fandom is already causing problems“ (I‘m not exactly sure about every word but I think it was something like that) and the thumbnail was a photo of Camilo (the shapeshifting one of the Madrigal family) with the following text next to it „he is not genderfluid, he is shape shifting“ (again I‘m not sure about every word exactly but it was something like this). I was confused and a little triggered since I expected Homophobia/queerphobia and because I‘m a healthy person on the internet I clicked on this video. The video was about if queer theories about encanto characters would erase the meaning of the story for Latino culture and the person who made the video was pretty much „anti headcanon“. And almost the whole comment section agreed. I left as confused and upset as the author of that Reddit post seemed to feel and since then thought a lot about the issue. Thank you for putting into words what I couldn‘t.

[@JackedThor-so]

I've seen that video floating around. I didn't watch it mostly because, just looking at the thumbnail, it struck me as a strawman.

[@Gxylord]

​@@JackedThor-so yeah i try to avoid the kinds of videos that seem like they take the stance of "there is too much gay here" or "stop making everything gay" because those takes genuinely are rooted in homophobia/transphobia etc (and racism when people are like "not every film has to have [insert any non-white race] in it!!") what's sadder is when the people claim to be allies or are part of the community because they'll defend the stance based on "I don't hate [minority] people!!" or "I am part of the community!!" since the people within the community who take the stance are so blind to their internalised oppression and then the people who are "allies" don't think critically about why they don't want to see the communities they're supposedly "allies" of represented in the media they can consume. "They can exist as long as I don't have to acknowledge them."

[@davidmaxwell4696]

Yeah, its so fucking frustrating. So many supposedly progressive people drop the mask real quick if they catch so much as a whiff of non-white, non-cishet headcanons

[@rose2887]

I saw a few actually and the worst part is they were using phrases like "gay people have to make everything gay" to ragebait and it's really upsetting to see

[@basilbat273]

Honestly just ignore videos like that they all almost just opinion based and act as if their not

[@siginotmylastname3969]

Edit: omg so glad you also noticed the stuff with the trans luisa headcannon discourse aka lack of headcannons 😭 On the luisa as trans headcannons it's SUPER IMPORTANT to note that the trans Latinas who headcannoned her were utterly erased in the discourse. I never even SAW anyone headcannon her but heard constant reference to these white trans people and tbh from cis people (yes some lgbt+ Latinas) complaining at length about them. And saw them called out by a single trans Latina of course. People who headcannoned luisa in those cases weren't saying every trans woman is muscly and weren't saying no cis Latina is, but rep for non passing trans people that's not "man in a dress" or scarbo in a suit is vanishingly rare. So that conversation, even though it's not my place as a white trans person to get involved, really needed both calling out of any racist white people as well as engagement with transfemme latine people.

[@Toffeecoco1]

the thing that’s bothered me about all this is that you can view the characters as queer without reading it as a queer allegory. the characters can just give “queer vibes” in your head without those vibes having much to do with the story at all

[@pisslord2000]

"pro-hc" and "anti-hc" made me convulsively shudder as somebody who used to interact in "pro-shipper" Vs "anti" discourse

[@rhaeven]

minors DNI do NOT talk to me, little entitled BRATS

[@hyalophora]

I had the exact same reaction

[@hyalophora]

whoever liked my reply, thank you, you brought me back to this comment immediately after I finished mindlessly scrolling through a bunch of Tumblr pro/anti shipper discourse, but. maybe next time try liking it BEFORE i do so as a reminder of its horrors

[@Dinnyeify]

*gets Discourse(TM) flashbacks*

[@link12click]

rei ayanami