[Arknights] Surtr VS Viviana

[@andyjackson7116]

Tldr: Viviana has better dps on paper. But quickly falling behind Surtr when facing enemies with more than 15 RES

[@3takoyakis]

Ppl already called her as 6star astesia They aren't wrong lol

[@ChaosDraguss]

She's also a lot less convenient to use. She needs to cast her S3 twice to reach peak DPS, whilst Surtr can just be thrown out anywhere you need a big DPS burst right away.

[@kyarumomochi5146]

No she doesnt lmfao She has slightly less than surtrs s3 dps on her max s3 output

[@slonik0002]

​​@@kyarumomochi5146No, she definitely has more, but loses out very fast. Better buff potentials with multi hits and a damage scale at least.

[@PekoraMamiCouncilHK]

1 art res is 1% art damage reduction 20 res ignore is 20% arts damage output Surtr has 20 res ignore at base and 22 after a few potential upgrade That's a very big gap for Vivi At least she got 20% more dps AND without skill duration limit as Surtr get

[@altaraeastral9288]

honestly the fact that she took down phase one patriot with ifrit a few seconds behind surtr is impressive

[@Hiarin]

Not having RES ignore/penetration hurt her dmg output, I just hope her base module give the archetype some art ignore/penet (or maybe not cuz that's gonna boost Surtr even more)

[@georgezhang1573]

It could be a talent buff, 10 res ignore while shield is active maybe?

[@EKTOS]

Well we getting a res ignore will not really boost surtr if surtr didint get it lets hope they gonna go with how they did dreadnoughts mod (ntrk and skadi got two different mod)

[@EKTOS]

​@@georgezhang1573yeah this can work or maybe she get multilayer shield as talent upgrade and mod itself give res ignore

[@0bscurelight689]

​@@EKTOS Skadi and Nalter both have both mods now, with Skaid having two ever since they releasev lv2 and 3 for mods

[@EKTOS]

@@0bscurelight689 yes what i mean is by giving both dreadnoughts 2 different mods before lvl 2/3 mod release they can show two potential effects for mod and that's what i want for arts gaurd too and as u mention skadi now have two mods while ntrk have one i often associated this bcause ntrk mod is perfectly fitted for her plus ntrk kit being better ingeneral(being perfect dreadnought) so if we treat surtr and vivi mod the same way as how they treat ntrk and skadi mod we can buff surtr once while give vivi 2 mod (for some reason when i look at vivi and surtr case i always think of skadi and ntrk surtr is like ntrk having perfect kit that perfectly suited for what there class want to accomplished while skadi and vivi kit feel like it lack something before they get a mod either way its just what i thought thx for reading)

[@broadbandislife]

Honestly, being even vaguely competitive with _That Which Is Surtr S3_ is something of an achievement in and of itself given how grotesquely overtuned Ice Cream Queen is.

[@littlelw319]

that's a nice way to put it. but she at a massive disadvantage for the fact hat Ragnarok has AOE capability while Viviana S3 doesn't. what worse is they didn't give anything for her S3 to make up for "not have AOE capability" to either compete/differentiate Viviana from Surtr.

[@terry5183]

NTR does quite well when conpared to Surtr. There was a video showing how Nearl with module outhsines Surtr in boss killing department.

[@broadbandislife]

@@littlelw319 See "grotesquely overtuned", Surtr is basically a fire-and-forget tactical nuke. You can kind of tell HG knows they made bit of a grievous error with her kit design. Which didn't stop them from creating horrors like Reed Alter later ofc so... yeah.

[@broadbandislife]

@@terry5183 Being able to ignore decent chunk of the target's Def never mind now the True damage on S3 does that yes. Doesn't do that with near Ifrit range and multitarget capability tho.

[@littlelw319]

@@broadbandislife to be fair, Reed Alter isn't THAT much of a bullshit when you group her with the likes of Surtr, Yalter, TexAl or Mlynar. sure she can deal MASSIVE damage, but that still conditional, her arts fragility?(i can't remember her passive now i haven't use her for quite a while now) is really nice tho i'll give you that

[@cefrinaldi8060]

The thing that make surtr OP is her res shred. Same thing that make GG OP. Moreover surtr was design to became a helidrop assasin, aoe panic button, frontline attacker (with s2), or boss/elite killer. While viviana whole deal was just elite/boss killer. Viviana kit felt like older than surtr while surtr kit felt ahead of its time.

[@3takoyakis]

Boss killer kit are useless since youre gonna spending it on non bosses anyway On the other hand, general enemy killer are better to kill boss One might question why a boss killer kit didn't have ammo based skill like chen alter too

[@cefrinaldi8060]

@@3takoyakis its the same case with eben. His kit also meant to be boss killer but other caster like ceobe was better than him for boss killer in general. Thats why people think eben is low tier since his kit wasnt flexible enough. Up until he got 3 module

[@King_Jockey]

*ignore, not shred She'd be way stronger if she shreds resistance like Ifrit does. Any other arts dealer next to surtr will benefit from it if she actually shreds

[@luchin7742]

It's not just a *single* thing that makes Surtr OP, also, GG is very good. Not OP at all. Surtr has a bunch of excellent features that all come together to make an absolute monster, her immortality, AoE, extremely high attack bonus (+330%) are also important factors.

[@Drunkcow123]

Viviana's kit to be a boss killer is pretty underwhealming when you realise certain guy *before* her with 0 def does 140k dps along with 14k true damage on S3.

[@mercce6750]

From what I've seen, Viviana seem to me like a lesser attempt at an Arts Guard version of Penance (being analogous of another operator of their archetype while also serving different purposes). Like she's not bad, Surtr is just... Surtr. At least with Mudrock there wasn't that high of a bar to reach (in terms of 6 stars) while here Surtr is well... Surtr.

[@otherguy6865]

Well, Penace can deal massive art dmg, taunt enemies easy shield for fast attack enemies or a bunch of maskman. What can Viviana do? Tanking? Why would you need a 1 block operator with higher cost than Skadi to be a tank? Beside her suủvivality is way worse than Surtr s3 with 2nd talent

[@yang8271]

From what I'm seeing, while Surtr is more of a helidrop, designed to erase elite enemies, Viviana is more of a duelist. She seems to be designed to lock the boss on a spot and tank it (or 1v1 it) to mitigate the pressure on the lanes to allow the allies to clear waves while she holds the real trouble maker, or, being able to tank the boss while other ops give her support. It's an interesting operator, definitely different and apparently a bit hard to master her usability

[@bruh-ey1ji]

Sounds like copium to me, she is plane worse in any situation, just like hoolheyak and other6* casters. But I'm rather happy about it cause it means that there would be less ops like typhon who break the game making gameplay lobotomised

[@gargutz907]

She can tank only with skill up. The moment it ends shield chance is too low and no triple attack leaves it unreliable.

[@dethaw6926]

If her design was to be a duelist then her skills should’ve been a lot more helidrop based

[@yang8271]

@@bruh-ey1ji Not really, I just don't think she's so bad. It looks like a fusion between Astesia and Amiya Guard. Like a single lane holder. Of course, there are better options, many better option, but I guess she can still be useful, especially for newbies

[@yammoto148]

@@bruh-ey1ji But Hol isn't worse since she has reliable crowd control every other 6 Star caster lacks. And crowd control is good in higher level content because casters are squishy mofo's who will die if sneezed on. Which is why they had to give GG global range as an example and why you see Ceobe a lot less even tho she still has some of the best ST damage in the game. I think you are just too much of a meta slave to look past the red numbers.

[@Kexaru]

Well, she's able to keep up with Surtr's damage without dying in the process, IDK if we needed a boss killer lane holder but here she is!

[@nexpersonal5066]

The awnser was that we didn't need one

[@jaircardoso184]

I have Mixed feelings on Viviana. In one hand, its a good, reasonable unit, not a broken one, just like Qiubai and Execalter. On the Other, there is Surtr as direct competition. I saw a coment on one of this week various videos about her, who mentioned how they should have been released inverted. Like, Surtr now, and Viviana in year 1. I don't think she is bad, just not meta. I hope Arts Guards get a similar module to Core casters, with a inbuit res-shred. But i think its unlikely. Though, If she gets a elemental damage add on, like Eben, it might get her to compete on surtr. But there is one thing i think is important: They did not Powercreept Surtr, and that is a good thing. If they did, 90% of the units would immediatly become obsolete.

[@shotam34]

From what I have seen Executor alter with his max module is pretty broken

[@slonik0002]

@@shotam34He’s strong but not broken, he still has his drawbacks despite losing the major ones with module.

[@tofutofutofutofu]

@@slonik0002 his mod definitely pushed him to broken status. idk why people still think hes just alright. after the module, he can tank, heal himself harder, deal a lot of damage with the 300 def ignore while still having a large range with true aoe. a lot of 'cant be healed with attacks' operator's greatest weakness is the fact that they lose a lot of hp very fast and cant recover from being low on health, and the module fixed that

[@elantoni2186]

Theres no way Executor alter is a 'reasonable' unit

[@3takoyakis]

Just make her physical caster like tomimi

[@akmalrafiaa4772]

The only benefit I see is Viviana doesn't die after awhile from her own skill.

[@huez8784]

If people complain enough, maybe will get arts guard module thanks to Viviana.... hope we got ignore resistance or some shit on her module tho I love these two so much 😭

[@3takoyakis]

Just make him caster Explore the tomimi archetype Why must Y1 unit 6star in Y4 now (6star astesia)

[@qurt5101]

I don't really get the "don't compare Surtr to Viviana" thingy. Why can't I? Viviana is even MORE one dimensional about killing bosses than Surtr is. Her shield talent only proc on bosses enemies, her damage talent doubles on bosses enemies, her S3 prioritizes boss enemies. All of that, and she somehow still loses or barely tie to Surtr in all cases regarding the only one niche that she is supposed to be better. Bosses have way too high RES, Viviana has no RES shred. Bosses have a lot of multi hit combo or aura damage, Viviana has only one shield. And you cannot even helidrop her because only her second activation gets the max effect. Feels like Surtr was made in year 4 and Viviana was made in year 2 tbh, she is too middling.

[@xXD4rkxR4v3nXx]

I think that the best example of covering different niches comes from the TBUT clip. Surtr 's job is to be a helidopable arts DMG nuke, with both multi target as well as invincibility. Once the big target is dead she is retreated or her invincibility buys enough time to do heavy DMG. Viviana on the other hand looks like a 6* Asteria in such as her job is using her stats and no HP drain to be a constant on field pressure of Arts lane DMG. I would field her in places were a decent stream of heavy bruiser enemies are coming from, with triple hits it allows her to do a job that , while surtr could fulfil, she does while always being on the field and not eating the redeploy CD.

[@qurt5101]

@@xXD4rkxR4v3nXx "Constant field pressure of Arts lane damage" is a solution looking for a problem. These types of scenarios don't even appear much in the grand scheme. Take a look at Storn's Viviana showcase. It is the exact scenario you mention and she already struggles against those elite mob enemies with the RNG shield. That vid feels like an FedEx showcase in which I could just slap Surtr S2 on it. There are a hundred of these stages in IS3 as well, does anyone think that Viviana will be a good option in these maps? This is just a blatant case of "nice enough idea" but "where damage". Bosses nowadays have around 40 RES, her damage is gutted for a supposedly bosskiller.

[@mikesanders2500]

I feel like you're being too harsh. Not Op needs to do crazy damage. This is a gacha game so their main priority is to get people to roll and have fun with characters they like. Even now I still might want to get her.

[@benzosk2604]

if you want a guard to stand in lane and constantly kill everything then let me introduce you to Chongyue. You don't need art damage witg Chong.

[@dr4go749]

​@@xXD4rkxR4v3nXxSurtr s2 exists tho, the fact that no one has it M3 shows how little you'd need constant arts damage line holding

[@CorvoA77ano]

Game makes broken op People: This is bad, they are powercreeping again. Game makes op with reasonable damage People: This is bad, she deals inferior damage. I mean just take the top comment on this video for example.

[@Godivase]

Hhahahah, yeah EN community is to much bro, i mean look at the other community comment, they already make strategy to use viviana, not crying boohoo this OP don’t one shot patriot I don’t want it

[@sweetillusions5495]

Yea this EXACT situation reminds me of Ines release where people were pissed that she doesn't ooga booga fast redeploy delete everything. Its a bad comparison to compare a pretty average operator to one that literally launched so broken that the game slowly warped around her, let alone the only things they even have in common being their archetype. Kit wise this is like comparing apples to oranges.

[@aichisendou6375]

The problem exists BECAUSE THE FIRST SENTENCE HAPPENED IN THE FIRST PLACE BRUH have a brain pls, and dont defend the devs from their obvious mistake. I agree sometimes it gets too far, but these problems have way deeper and strong roots behind them that gets ignored constantly by blinded ppl like you. If they dont screw up the first years ops the issue will be much less damning to see

[@gargutz907]

​@@sweetillusions5495but Ines is great with all the utility she has. Everyone and their mother on showcases/recommendations told about how good and unique her kit is even without buttloads of damage. Vivi has nothing besides her damage, and even that damage is mediocre at best. And yeah, the ceiling is up long time ago, it's not just Surt, we also have new Texas and Yato, Typhoon, Pozyomka, Hoederer, Mlynar, Gavialter and that's just off the top of my head. Then they release one of the more anticipated chars from npc jail and it's mid at best, "boss on our team" meme just writes itself (and her boss attack nowhere to be seen on top).

[@CorvoA77ano]

@@aichisendou6375 "don't defend the devs", yeah no, don't put words in my mouth. I am just laughing at the dichotomy of the community. No one likes powercreep. The existence of Tex alter corrupts all fast redeploys in the game, so any op released in the future need to be as broken as her, like Yato is, or have niche so they are not directly competing with her to even be relevant. Anyway gacha games, or any game kn genreal is always going to fuck up when the introduce a new character into the roster, the problem exists everywhere. While in most other games they get balanced out by later patches, they can't do that in gacha. Something something China has laws against it. So nothing we can do except express our dissatisfaction about it and hope they don't do it next time.

[@beraerkkk]

수르트 마저무시 재능 덕에 패트리어트에선 유의미하게 차이가 나네요 용도가 엄연히 다르고 비비안나도 성능캐긴 하지만 비교군이 하필 최흉의 적폐중 하나라 비교가 될 수밖에...

[@DoTroll5610]

그리고 패트리어트는 근접죽창이 다단히트라서 보호막 생성으로 탱킹하는 비비안나 카운터.

[@whitemagus2000]

God bless you for answering the one question I had about viviana. I can't afford to waste all my pulls on an operator that isn't a clear upgrade to what I'm already using.

[@King_Jockey]

She's definitely gonna be getting a module soon, which in turn, also gives Surtr one as well so she's indirectly buffing Surt Now I wonder what Surt will get. Atkspd perhaps? More res ignore? Or longer survivability? I had a mod idea where she deals more dmg the more enemies in her range. Like a 5/10/15/20% dmg increase

[@stenacher]

> mod idea where she deals more dmg the more enemies in her range gonna be perfect for reclamation algorithm v2

[@Zack_Zander]

With how strong Surtr is currently, I don’t think she should get a game changing mod like that.

[@littlelw319]

@@Zack_Zander but thing is, with 2 6* arts fighter and one is at a major disadvantage like this it is bound to happen sooner than later

[@Zack_Zander]

@@littlelw319 Not saying that she wouldn't get a mod, just that she shouldn't get a game changing one. Either slight increase to her existing RES ignore from her first talent, or 1-2 second increase for stage 2 and 3 module from her second talent. As for Viviana, while she definitely should get a mod that makes her better, I feel like that they could've just made her Skill 3 have an infinite duration on the second activation like Thorns or Typhon. (And if for whatever reason that it either too strong or that's too simple, a better suggestion would be that have the duration on the second activation still be 15 second, but only drains when she isn't attacking or if there's no enemy in her range)

[@thatoneotheridiot3361]

@@Zack_Zander Honestly? I'd sell my damn soul for infinite duration Viviana.

[@tridentgreen3346]

Honestlly, I think I like Vivi for 1 big reason: shorter cycles. When you click Surtr, she's gonna die. Then she goes on a lengthy cooldown that you can only shorten one way: SA. Vivi's got a 25s Skill CD for 15/25 second uptime. That's actually pretty good. Surtr might be a supernova with insane damage and res but Vivi stays on the field a lot longer with less investment, like a star. And she still outputs plenty.

[@PekoraMamiCouncilHK]

Surtr may kill one boss by herself before she died But Vivi can't do enough damage to 50% health then she is dead I don't see anypoint except M.A.O.

[@yammoto148]

@@PekoraMamiCouncilHK What you don't use healing in your ops? Is Pitopsis, Perfumer, Shining and Nightingale such a foriegn concept to you? Besides that pair her with Wafarin, damage buffs work well with multihits. And wafarin module also synergize with eliete killing.

[@PekoraMamiCouncilHK]

@@yammoto148 If I MUST form a 2-3 man group for suppressing a lane with a Boss I prefer Aak-Surtr, Pli-Surtr or War-Ejya to brust someone down just NOT preferring Vivi She can survive that without skill activated If I must tank the boss and mobs, I will rather bring Saria (tanks) or 3-Block guards with mages instead. GG, Ejya, Ceobe can do well because they have module to have arts res Nice burst damage or consistent damage If I have the thrid one, she might be Weed alter or a guard That's how arts team works nowadays

[@yammoto148]

@@PekoraMamiCouncilHK Thats how arts teams work for you, everyone has their own way of playing. There is nothing you "must" do. All you are admitting is that you have a bias.

[@PekoraMamiCouncilHK]

@@yammoto148 @yammoto148 forget to tell you that I own all operators and try to make use of them I did make use of Chen, Skadi, Passenger, Enuctes and Mositma before their enhancements was released. (They are known as "garbage" in my community) It's just come with bigger limitations and more retries I just said "not preferred" in stead of shittalk( like dump to play with Vivi) She is charming in lore and voiced by my favorite voice actor M.A.O. (Fumika, girl in my icon is also voiced by M.A.O.) Can't figure out why are you so mad I am tired to reply you now

[@EmuachPuff]

To be honest, i really like this type of content. Comparing operator is just stupid, i agree, every operator has their own flaws. But at least: - I got know what type of operator they are much earlier (played on global) - I know their weakness and can guess which operator works best for them to do maximum job - And last, it's (for me), entertaining In the end, just pull for whoever character you want. Don't just pull because of they're, according to other people, "meta" And commenting you DON'T LIKE this type of content under THAT SPECIFIC TYPE OF CONTENT YOU HATE is just baffling to me. It's not a clickbait, the title is clear enough unless you can't read properly. Talk shit elsewhere

[@SimplyNexy]

A chunk of the AK Community is obsessed with the "Don't compare" or "There are no bad operators" mentality which is so wrong.

[@42_cloud]

강제퇴각 안 한다는 점에서 나는 좋은듯. 수르트 나오기 전에도 무스 자주 썼고 수르트 2스 자주 써서 오히려 비비안나를 자주 쓸지도

[@mrrp405]

Same here, I think consistent melee arts option will be very nice to have.

[@VonTachyon]

Viviana doesn't have the res shred or invincibility that makes Surtr's damage so guarunteed, but she is still good if you need her to stay on the field for longer than a minute. She also has multi-hits, so she's probably better to recieve buffs.

[@Drunkcow123]

Okay i cannot help myself but to say this, why don't just use Hoederer?. honestly i see no reason other than waifus over metas

[@Zack_Zander]

I really feel like they could’ve made her S3 infinite duration on the second activation and it could’ve still been fine.

[@96kami31]

Well it won't change my decision to pull for her. If i like a character why should i not pull for it?

[@thundercat7809]

This is why broken unit is bad, they broke the balance & make future release unit looks obsolete. Next we'll get new spreadshoot ops but it will be totally trashed by Chalter, or summoner that will be ignored cause we have Ling & don't forget liberator only has 2 Ops and Myalnar exist. Unless in Texalter & Yatalter case broken unit make whole class archetype finished. And how HG fix this problem? They making bunch new archetype, genius!

[@chut4222]

Unfortunately, they couldn't nerfed these broken unit since it's against CN's law, so the best solution is to drop more stronger and no-brainer unit, I missed the time when we have only SA, Eyja, and Exusiai as op units, but they're not much broken and no brainer unlike the one we have seen today

[@dominustempus8969]

@@chut4222 I feel like nerfing a gacha character directly just feels bad overall. Especially if you put some money into it.

[@chut4222]

@@dominustempus8969 I see, I thought nerfing certain character would make the game more balance like some online games, but I ain't realize the balance problem in gacha game are different

[@dominustempus8969]

@@chut4222 Indirect "nerfs" is a way to deal with it though. And powercreep. Doesn't really matter in the end though.

[@3takoyakis]

Just make different class Explore more But noooo, they just need to make 6star of old 5star units that's already forgotten And ppl said HG was creative lol, their creativity is dead long time ago

[@moanaamusic]

Nice to see her in action! I got to be the singer for Viviana's song "Illuminate"

[@Shadow6OO]

Damage wise obviously she doesn't stack up, but I'm curious if she's a better option for bosses that you can't just Surtr (ei: ones that outlast Surtr's skill and aren't going to wait 80 seconds for her to be usable again).

[@yammoto148]

I mean with setup yes possibly, she has multihit so like Exusai she can compensate her lackluster damage with buffs. And if her rng rolls right she will be as tanky as mudrock with her shields, the problem is however her skill can run out, if it lasted forever it might be a different story.

[@Drunkcow123]

Just use Hoederer, the guy littereally just release before Viviana and significantly does better in dealing with bosses with that 70 seconds S3. The downside is that the dude will lose hp per second along with 0 def so bringing a medic if you want to take care of that

[@yammoto148]

@@Drunkcow123 Yeah he needs a good medic to keep him going, but he at least made Crushers look good for once.

[@silentshadows8436]

@@Drunkcow123 couldnt you bring a medic with viviana anyways too?

[@slonik0002]

@@silentshadows8436Yes, but you’d also need a buffer or debuffer like shown in Patriot’s video, since she has no way to deal with Res easily.

[@mo_dameda]

I like these kinds of videos. In japan whenever the topic of comparison comes up, there's always someone vigorously proclaiming, 'ROLES ARE DIFFERENT!' making it impossible to have a meaningful discussion.

[@littlelw319]

this video works because they have the SAME ROLE which is elite killer(well, Surtr is Surtr, elite killer just happen to be one role she is good at). their usage is the same, the only thing left to compare is how their work and their performance, i.e. DAMAGE. why do you think people clown on someone trying to compare SilverAsh and Thorns? or you could ask yourself why there ISN'T a comparison between SilverAsh, Thorns and Qiu Bai when they share the same archetype? Damage isn't a end all be all solution in arknights, there is role and niche to consider, to only account for "how much bazillion damage this operator can deal" is the mindset that making it impossible to have a meaningful discussion.

[@larrycap2946]

Yeah Im surprised theres actually a discussion in the comments of this video. I guess that means viviana is so underwhelming that even the people that always try to defend mediocre units to feel better about themself and feel superior to the "metatards" cant say anything possitive about her lol. Shame that such a good design got such trash kit

[@thatoneotheridiot3361]

@@larrycap2946 It's not even that she's trash. She's a good elite killer. It's just that, you know. Surtr. She got released in a meta where Surtr exists. Someone already in the same archetype who's so much more busted at what she does. It's sad.

[@Gojiradogzillagodzilla]

The fact that she took phase 1 patriot just a few seconds behind Surtr and she also got good cycle on her skills already sold me lol

[@Kyuma-wm6qr]

Seems like the extra atk bonuses from trust and potential upgrades are crucial for her,max trust/pot 5 Viviana deals more damage to an 60 RES enemy compared to max trust/pot 5 Surtr

[@Godivase]

Only in EN community she’s getting this shit talk, in other communities she get respected and not compared to other op

[@Godivase]

If i can post screenshots on yt, i will post it, it’s to funny to see EN crying over this one, where the other already make strategy to deploy viviana

[@slonik0002]

Tbf, the EN showcases I’ve seen have been mostly for boss killing and DPS only. Some of the other server showcases help showcase how her survivability and on-field staying power comes into effect, which obviously affects reception.

[@EmuachPuff]

Ikr. This happens a lot to the newest operator. Every. Single. Time. Even much harsher for alter operators. If you really want to pull for a certain character, just pull for it

[@리하타니아]

패트리어트가 너무 카운터다😂 마저가 90이니 마저무시 재능인 수르트가 이길뿐더러 다중타격인 적이라 보호막이 속수무책으로 깨짐

[@Jisung__Kim]

강제퇴각 안 하고 저 딜이면 좋은 것 같은데

[@user-so2rd9sz3e]

수르트 강제퇴각 싫어서 일반맵에선 잘 안쓰는데 강제퇴장 없어서 평소엔 비비안나를 더 많이쓸듯

[@DoTroll5610]

사기성만 보자면 수르트가 더 op라고 하겠지만, 생존연산 보스들이나 12지역 보스 같이 무조건 스톨링을 해야되는 보스에선 디펜더+딜러 역할을 혼자서 가능한 오퍼라고 생각하는데 생각보다 사람들 평가가 박하네요. 수르트, 무에나, 특사스 같은 무조건 뽑아라 급의 적폐 라인은 못되더라도. 로사, 나이팅게일, 이프리트 같이 평소에도 쓸만하면서 특정 상황에서선 적폐보다 나은 국밥캐릭의 가능성은 충분해 보임.

[@kenkaneki3873]

On one hand Surtr was a mistake on the other hand as people mentioned most bosses nowadays have 20+ RES so why release an Arts unit without RES bypass?

[@broadbandislife]

Because HG kinda tends to do their balancing by throwing darts at a wall? Anyway reminder that Res cut is an exception even among "pure" Caster types.

[@gargutz907]

Funny how the same banner feature Arturia and Eben module, who both deal true dmg for now without any elemental res enemies.

[@broadbandislife]

@@gargutz907 Not hard to guess Vivi's multihit running theme is intended to mesh really well with Artie's S2...

[@JPOG7TV]

She was never going to impress anyone when Surtr is such a huge outlier.

[@broadbandislife]

I mean that she's competitive _at all_ is impressive in itself.

[@penfirwell]

They won't let power creep Surtr so easily. So that people new players will be tempted to buy 6 star selector just for her or Mylnar.

[@obsiangravel]

Thorns vs Silverash 2 Electric Bogaloo

[@ReWhiteout]

Yea, helidrop vs stationary unit

[@cheekywombat9208]

​@@ReWhiteoutSurtr's hospital:

[@marcof08]

Viviana's module: ignores 30 res when atacking boss or elite, please hg

[@aokusazimniy8]

I don't care with which is the best cuz both are good, just need pull for her and she will be very happy spending time with Nearl in dorm

[@sebby5060]

Bruh Vivi is mid you can't change the truth bro don't deceive yourself but i don't care either gonna get her anyway

[@Gacha-Ritual-Master]

Honestly, as much as everyone loves Vivianna, her mid-ness is somewhat canon, NGL she was a "Somewhat difficult" fight in the Near Light event story, I could even rank her below Tola. Some or even most of the "OP" 6*s are also kinda strong lorewise and they translate very well to gameplay... That is to say that I'm not really disappointed about how Vivianna cannot one shot Patriot alone without mines, I'm sure someday we will have one Operator like that :v

[@broadbandislife]

Narrative -Edgelord- Tola got to pull a fucking ghost army out of his ass for no particular reason so that basically doesn't say anything. (And Logos would have just dispelled that bunch with a wave of his hand cuz that's _his_ shtick so... whatevs really.) If memory serves Maggie had Devil of a time dealing with her Arts and that duel was the closest run thing she had in the whole tournament before Ya Boi Blood Knight.

[@Gacha-Ritual-Master]

@@broadbandislife I mean, you're not comparing the frickin heir of the throne of Banshees to Vivianna right? Of course Logos solos xD Vivianna was a tricky fight not because of her strength or power but more for the illusion it evokes, she's a trickster melee fighter and it shows in the way she moves both in S2 and S3 but Margaret didn't exactly bring out THE FRICKIN HOLY LANCE OF LIGHT AND JUDGEMENT on her ass you know? XD pretty confident to say she wasn't giving 100% vs Vivianna and that's not me making Vivianna look weak, Margaret is top tier character in terms of power outside living catastrophes like the Abyssal Hunters, that is to say that in front of pure might like Diakopolis, Vivianna falls short but Margaret comes through, I would place her 2 levels below Diakopolis and Margaret and 1 level below Tola cuz that Edgelord army summon is both cheating and hype AF.

[@broadbandislife]

@@Gacha-Ritual-Master I'm making a point of how meaningless it is to invoke one-shot event characters like Tola who basically get whatever the fuck arbitrary superpowers the writers feel like for effect. But it rather amuses me how Logos's trademark trick of dispelling the shit out of other peoples' Arts creations would entirely No Sell that particular stunt. (And it's funny to think how Tola would react to his asspull Shounen Power Up getting just summarily dismissed like that kek) Maggie had such a hard time with Vivi because she's good enough in hand-to-hand to hold her own and the way her Arts work make her very difficult to effectively attack with the same - if memory serves the shadow/candle thing she does basically absorbs and disperses incoming Arts and makes it hard to get a proper "target lock" on her. (Ingame this would be the damage reduction and shield mech in her kit I guess?) Mags pretty much had to exert herself the hardest she did before Dika-kun to get through those evasive hijinks IIRC.

[@Gacha-Ritual-Master]

@@broadbandislife hey hey Tola is not just one asspull character, in fact, he has heavier relevancy in the world of Terra than Vivianna could even hold, he is probably the last member of a clan that was feared for their might by most of the relevant nations, The Khagans were top tiers, I believe they even got mentioned in this latest chapter in global by Damazti or another relevant character, he was finding his meaning in live while struggling with his pride and narrow mindness, he got kinda thrown there in the Near Light event but he opens a lot of possible lore heavy events opportunities in the future, Vivianna on the other hand... Well, lets be real here, we're glad she is playable but the real star here is Arturia :v

[@littlelw319]

i know you said most of, but then again -swimsuit Chen with her war crime commiting water gun.(i like Chen and i don't see any problem with her alter as a character. i find her wacky water gun being op as heck very funny) -SilverAsh(used to be considered really OP) is just a really good strategist who doesn't really fight -Eyja is literally deaf and blind teenager/young adult -Chong Yue(this is a bit of a reach i know), is pretty much "i know kung fu" guy with no special power -Surtr who is (currently)canonically weakest combat operator resides on rhodes island(for context her combat parameter is well, MID at best. if we goes by parameter alone, the only 6* she can really beat is Suzuran) -Penance, disclaimer i haven't read Il Siracusano story i don't know how true this is, but i's sound funny so i will put it here. can't really fight and get overwhelmed by multiple goons. not here to say "that's bs", but every time i remember about these make me laugh.

[@exiled7038]

Coping *hard* rn that she would be the catalyst for arts guard getting their modules 🙏

[@Drunkcow123]

I don't get why people even bother to justify Viviana being more defense oriented arts guards with that 1-block of her. If anything else that just makes her looks like a arts duelist defender without the sp on block trait

[@aizeroth8858]

I wish someone would test her against CC12 Avenger boss. In theory she can tank him while S3 is up. Which is something that Surtr or almost anyone else can't do. Regardless, I'm rolling for her.

[@slonik0002]

Don’t think she could, he gets a 100 ASPD buff with that 4th risk, so he attacks faster than she could gain shields.

[@nuginurohman7613]

her shield is inconsistent, not really good on hard content

[@Eckogen]

Candle waifu!

[@lozyl956]

If only infinite duration smh

[@aloysiusidelia]

HG loves making an arts DPS boss killer being worse than Surtr just by not letting them unable to shred RES Like, if I have a penny for everytime this happen, i'd have 2

[@luchin7742]

Surtr: Helidrop + Res ignore + AoE + Immortality on a 5 seconds cooldown, gets forcefully retreated. Viviana: Stationairy, low SP for similar skill up-time, lacks res ignore but makes up for it by staying on-field. Gains shields frequently (good against slow attack enemies) but lacks AoE In short: Surtr helidrop, Viviana stays on-field. Whether you think she is good for your account depends on you.

[@Simon-ur7bi]

Let's pray for RES ignore on her module..... If I had to say a good module would probably be something like increasing her talent 1 by an extra 0.5x against elites and adding 15 RES ignore on them, still makes Surtr better against multiple enemies but would at least let Viviana stand her ground against single target. But honestly you could push it even further, she has to go through 2 skill cycles to get the good version of her skill, may as well be fucking busted when she actually gets there. They could've at least made it permanent like Thorns

[@koekelbagstrogoff966]

Did Vivi not get stunned when Big Ugly exploded at 1:26? Having just tested it with my own Nian, a shield does not prevent the shielded op from being stunned, so is Vivi just shrugging it off somehow? Or is her shield different from other shields like Nian and Roberta?

[@galeria_m]

HG really did Viviana dirty on this...

[@huynamvu3035]

wow, she barely kill big ugly thing who only has 20 res, and most modern bosses nowadays has at least like 30 res or higher.

[@broadbandislife]

She also finished it off with full HP while Surtr _literally died_ in the process. Just sayin'.

[@Kyuma-wm6qr]

Viviana is not at max trust in this video if she were she would kill Big Ugly faster than Surtr and Patriot with Ifrits help

[@denden6316]

Reminder that Surtr has res ignore, not res shred, which is different

[@sorashizen5130]

The funny thing is, build a nice hospital for surtr and consider 99% of the stages done

[@olive750]

Throw away the broken candle nuke button in your hand and take another sword instead.

[@gldhtmsmsrktrpa]

2정 90렙 풀잠 풀스작 신뢰도 100기준 비비아나 3스 1764.72 ×2(2번째부터 ×3) 수르트 3스 3440(+마저 22 무시) 마저 50까지는 비비아나가 딜이 더 강하고(2번째 이후 발동 기준) 50 이후부터는 수르트가 더 강합니다.

[@slonik0002]

Not sure how you’re getting that, are you forgetting to take into account the +0.5s attack interval for Viviana? Surtr wins out at 20 RES or higher, not 50.

[@gldhtmsmsrktrpa]

@@slonik0002 I only calculated the amount of damage in one attack, and in the case of Viviana, she attacked three times at once Starting with using the second skill. so I considered viviana's damage 1764.72×3=5294.16. and I mistaked calculation. on a second count, it was 60 instead of 50 Viviana: 1764.72×3×0.4=2117.664 Surtr: 3440×(0.4+0.22)=2132.8

[@slonik0002]

@@gldhtmsmsrktrpa That would be the damage per hit, but damage per second would be more important when comparing the two, since Arts damage doesn’t need to have a high damage per hit unlike how Physical damage does.

[@gldhtmsmsrktrpa]

@@slonik0002 I know. but I'm too lazy to calculate that...

[@abednegokurio9244]

Man her module better give something amazing. It's not just that she lacks the explosive damage that other Ops bring, she's also conceptually just very boring.

[@CJdoesntlikehandles]

one big advantage is not being given a death sentence for using the skill

[@nexpersonal5066]

with her shield RNG, if the boss isn't dead by the time the skill ends, Viviana will also die

[@rocharox]

DPS doesn't matter, Will roll for her!

[@kael070]

At least she doesn't have to commit alt f4 at the end😂

[@Unknown299-hi4qc]

Comparing her with Surtr just doesnt add up, Surtr is better in DPS cause she needs to be redeployed. Tho with that being said why dont compare Viviana S3 to NTRK S3 and Hoederer S3, theyre doing the same purpose by doing the Boss Killing laneholder role

[@A1D7]

I honestly have no idea what they were thinking with this op. A single target Surtr without res shred that takes a long ass time to ramp up instead of just being ready in 5 seconds. Sure the shields are kinda nice, but she feels just incredibly underpowered. Even if you didn't compare her to the other 6* in her own class that released almost 3 years before her, she'd still be underwhelming compared to the average 6*. They better give her a module at least on the level of Executor's.

[@alm5851]

I mean... yay for not powercreeping? Really sad kit for a 2023 unit

[@Riv_ilio]

Ok, ok say Nearl Alter, take on my coffee, please😂

[@Yumiesthetic]

viviiiiiiiiii

[@jonatanwilliam1320]

This two can't be compare, after all Surtr have ignore def and res if i'm not mistaken from her talent

[@냥두부-t7n]

혹시 패트리어트 상대 할 때 버프 걸어주고 퇴각하는 오퍼는 누구인가요?

[@고범석-b1r]

그냥 명방 섭종할때까지 수르트 대체재는 안나올듯ㅋㅋ

[@ford_geonwoo]

수르트 특특 도 과한데 상위호완나오면 어우..

[@friskpichmir]

Did you let viviana ability activate at least once before fighting the boss? You get her full power if she uses her ability 2 times like thorns

[@angelosgames9960]

I'd say she's pretty good although lacking in Damage. Her prioritization of Elite and Boss stages is quite helpful if you don't a broken operators. Her kit is more like a Sparta type kit where you can put her behind or front of a defender while she can dish out damage from behind. Not as powerful as Surtr but its still pretty good one to me atleast

[@broadbandislife]

...what the heck does any of that have to do with _Sparta_ of all things.

[@angelosgames9960]

@@broadbandislife You know the Spear and Shield or Phalanx Formation since Viviana has only 1 block and can only attack 1 enemies at a time then any defender comes in and put her either front or back of the defender. I know you can just put range operators and stuff but if someone is planning to use her as a lane clear you can do it like that.

[@broadbandislife]

@@angelosgames9960 ...I think you really need to do some reading on how phalanx/shieldwall formations worked. Hint: every guy had a spear and shield for starters, that was kind of the _point._ (Hint 2: they were fucking common and certainly no distinctive characteristic of the severely overhyped Spartans.) The Dublinn grunts with their mutual defence buffs actually do a pretty solid job simulating the core dynamic of that kind of close-order heavy infantry formation.

[@angelosgames9960]

@@broadbandislife You don't have to lecture about Phalanx Formation I already know that and can you even do that in game like bruh what? What I said is like a Phalanx type of deployment of Operators not going full init like dude you giving me lectures that aren't even applied gameplay wise like slow down with the big brain there

[@broadbandislife]

@@angelosgames9960 In game terms a phalanx would literally amount to a cluster of Defenders you know. Or I suppose Lords if you go with the Macedonian-Hellenistic pike version...? My _point_ was that Sparta babble was grossly misapplied fanboy BS.

[@stef2337]

Vivian just that 1 Surtr that not die on s3

[@_NPT_]

비비안나는 퇴각 안한다는 장점이 있네

[@psachickennugget8617]

Her upside is she has damage comparable to Surtr. What, that not good enough for you doctor? Then how about the fact using her skill doesn’t kill her?

[@nexpersonal5066]

Single target doing slightly less damage than AoE is not good, also with her shield RNG, if the boss isn't dead by the time the skill ends, Viviana will also die just like Surtr

[@ZuraJura]

Surtr passively having -20 res 🗿

[@user-li7ib4ml1d]

그나저나 쉴드 저게 스턴같은 cc기도 방어가 되는건가? 방금 마지막에 기절해야 하는데 멀쩡했던 것 같은데?

[@ZuraJura]

Surtr reigns as king and will always be in arts guard but still basically no lore. Wtf

[@jiamingli1109]

Can you do skadi vs the new male guardian

[@Victor-du1dn]

ok fk the dmg but the skill animations should be better than surtr at least,rip

[@cheekywombat9208]

Viviana: She swings her sword from up, to down. Two slashes appear out of nowhere. Actually boring. Surtr: _Big Arm_

[@ra6765]

Fr her animations are very underwhelming. I dont mind a more balanced kit but Viv is one op ive been waiting for a long time. Honestly pretty disappointed but eh.

[@slonik0002]

Her 1st cast animation is more interesting imo

[@x_twitter]

Candle knight meh?

[@성모-h1g]

왜 얘가 수르트랑 비교 당하는 지 모르겠음 수르트는 말이 아츠파이터지 특사스나 첸류탄 같은 누커 계열과 비교해야 알맞다고 봄

[@xolove0024]

HP drained vs Skill drained 😂

[@rasharok1595]

최고존엄 로도스의 전술핵병기

[@heibi5068]

비비눈나는 버프 효율이 조타

[@xicheeal]

waiting for her module

[@elkranos3415]

"Just surtr it" will never die

[@sebby5060]

I hate it much too

[@azkayasmin4321]

I don't think surtr is a perfect comparison for viviana though (as surtr has ignore 20 res to enemy, attack multiple mobs and has immortality) I think if you were to compare her to some OPs, you could just compare her survivability and how she can tank elite mobs (like, how tanky she actually is instead of comparing DPS)

[@nier3072]

She's the only 6* Arts Guard smh

[@azkayasmin4321]

@@nier3072 i know that But what exactly IS the best she can do? I've seen a few videos on how she can block golem multiples time and I've seen a potential on that alone (a really tanky art guards) But if you are going to compare surtr like this, wasn't only going to make her look bad?

[@sentibird123]

Her survivability doesn't seem to be all that.I saw a video where she died to the knights when they are not enraged yet while standing on a healing tile.Her skill 3 is M1 on that video so not her max potential but still.Besides those golems aren't really a good indicator of how good you can tank.They attack very slow and I don't think anyone else in the game attack that slow without the attack being a multi hit so they will just ignore her shield for the most part.Also is it really thanking when her she doesn't take dmg from them?For example,Horderer can "tank" them infinitely since he can stun lock them with s2

[@Drunkcow123]

​@@azkayasmin4321just use Cement smh, or just use any duelist defender if you want to get the comparison that you want.

[@yammoto148]

@@sentibird123 You sure you seeing the same video? Cause Knight was enraged and she tanked 4-5 bonks in a row which most defenders can't who isn't named Mudrock. And even in that case she didn't die she was retreated because rng didn't bring her shield up and Executor Alter finished 1 second later anyway (Who btw was also meh pre modules so lets hold our horses here on judgement) Also said video is M1 Viviana, not M2 max stats.

[@jerryananda5599]

Cant believe theres another metaslave dumbness lol, it just like a repeated history of Thorns vs Silverash comparing, yet with similiar situation on use case, surely metaslaves never changes with their idiocy

[@luciusjoeterry7526]

She more like a stalling unit for bosses than boss killing but well knowing im not gonna get her due to bullshit luck cant really say anything

[@danthanhhuynhpham685]

why is her skill not enhanced tho 2nd activation and onwards should last longer and have triple hit so it would improve slightly

[@slonik0002]

It is enhanced though, first cast has different animations and lower range anyways.

[@danthanhhuynhpham685]

@@slonik0002 she only hit twice tho enhanced skill hits 3 times

[@slonik0002]

@@danthanhhuynhpham685She is hitting 3 times, but that might be hard to see which is why I pointed out the other factors that you can identify more easily.

[@nuginurohman7613]

@@danthanhhuynhpham685 this is the thing bro,its already enchanted,,you see her range? thats enchanted version

[@furret8456]

tldr Viviana is cute and Surtr overused '^'

[@tyraster8603]

I hate Hypergryh so goddamn much!!! This is now the second time this year they completely screwed over anticipated waifus. The first one being Ho'ol and Mumu of course. What the hell is their problem???

[@Milennin]

Really does show a lack of care on their side. I spent quite a bit of money on the game in 2023, but these terrible decisions are going to make me wary repeating my spending habits going into 2024. Messing up a highly anticipated waifu like Viviana shows they're not to be trusted.

[@초승달-p7q]

모듈이 어떻게 나올지가 희망이다 ㅠㅠ

[@kyarumomochi5146]

The issue with viviana is that you litterally cant redeploy her as most of her damage comes from her 2nd skill activation

[@dedekhasanah4214]

sudah kuduga 😢

[@Takkkkkkkkkk]

This vid really shows how Viviana falls behind. People called her "balanced" but her job is to kill elites/bosses and to tank them and yet shes still not good at it. Her shield being unable to stack, can only block melee attacks, and requiring RNG really hurts her bc most bosses can deal ranged dmg and multi hits. For example, as seen in this vid, Patriot hits her multiple times and she dies while Surtr can tank it bc she has immortality. Surtr was not a boss killer in mind when she was first introduced and she has RES ignore while Vivi has none, and thats an oopsie from HG. Surtr can be both boss killer and mobs sweeper in just one use while Vivi struggles to do one job. In conclusion, just like other said, it seems like HG mixed up Surtr and Vivi debut schedule. But hey, dont let it disheartens you, Arts Fighters still have 3 modules to test around with in the future. Eben, whos also a boss killer since debut, had a disastrous introduction but he's not so bad with modules now so no worries. And as always, remember to follow your D.

[@Raccoon_sensei]

데미지자체가드르🤔

[@mi_ho]

cc 면역있는건가

[@majo_alice]

Viviana have different role than Surtr, more about staying on the line and dealing with elites and bosses who comes to her, she isn't perfect, but still pretty good, I wouldn't call her another Hoolheyak or Passenger without module

[@온너울]

수르트 대체제가 될것이가 그것이 문제네요

[@정현규-o9h]

운용방식이 달라서 대체는 안됨

[@haiffy]

😁

[@81Berserker]

sad sad sad vivi is one of the coolest characters yet she has a bad kit. just a little res shred would have been fine...