Army Creates 'ARREST' Records for Soldiers Who Were Never Arrested

[@drewschumann1]

And not coincidentally, the military is having trouble recruiting. Is it possible people don't want to be victimized by the military?

[@JohnDoe-qz1ql]

Yupp, you're effectively Their property.

[@ace-kz9id]

AND the kicker they keep upping the requirements to join and keep cutting sign up bonuses.

[@Illyria1217]

One of the issues with is their strict tattoo policy. They don’t care how many you get after you enter, it’s before. I was turned down from the marines in 2016 for having a tattoo less than 2 inches above my wrist. I scored 106 on my asvab and the recruiters tried to get tattoo waver but couldn’t. Army policy at the time was if the tattoo can be covered up by a hand, it was fine.

[@orppranator5230]

@@JohnDoe-qz1ql That’s not the problem. The problem is that they abuse their property.

[@christopherkidwell9817]

@@orppranator5230 100% this... getting involved in wars of choice overseas is the biggest way they abuse soldiers.

[@nolongeramused8135]

Military investigations are a complete joke. When I was in the USAF my alcoholic sergeant became convinced I was a "drug user" because I drank orange and grape soda from the vending machine. Thus began the year-long crusade to get the dirt on me via "random" drug tests every two to three weeks (which I passed), lame attempts by the OSI to get me to do drug buys in exchange for "leniency" (I was never charged with anything), repeated psychological evaluations (for which the base headshrinker counseled me on how to fight back and f*** up careers), and basically being removed from my job duties for "reasons" that could never be explained. The alcoholic sergeant made an attempt to get a spinal tap ordered for me so he could get "proof" of what drugs I was supposedly taking since I kept passing their piss test, at which point I informed him that my congressman would be talking to him personally before that happened. Amazingly, he also kept pushing this idea that I was gay for some reason, which was quite amusing to the entire shop. This was 40 years ago, so reporting him for a hostile work environment wasn't a thing yet. The final straw was when the acting 1st sergeant burst into my room one morning screaming that I was supposed to be on 12-hour shifts even though our annual war games had already ended the day before. I told him to GTFO out of my barracks room and that my first stop that morning was the IG's office. The IG wasn't amused, and neither was the base chaplain. My congressman was even less thrilled to hear what had happened - within 48 hours the squadron commander (a major already passed over twice for promotion and on probation for stealing government equipment) and all three of the involved sergeants were hit with an investigation from my congressman's office. The IG went to the wing commander and it all hit the fan at roughly the same time. The lifers were in a complete panic, and it showed. I later learned that all their military careers had come to a complete halt and none of them ever made a promotion after that. Additionally, I found out that the group of them were feeding 1st termers to the OSI on various drug charges in exchange for either not getting booted out themselves or a career boost. This worked for some time as about 90% of the people I worked with were routinely smoking weed on the weekends, so they all failed their "random" drug test. The problem became that once my turn on the (literal) list they were using came up for the drug testing I kept passing, and they were unwilling to skip over me to next person to be screwed over. There was, apparently, an agreement with OSI for a 100% success rate. Despite them telling me that my life was ruined and that I'd never amount to anything because of my military record, I retired early as a millionaire. Looking back at it now, I should have gone straight to the IG's office when I had my 3rd "random" drug test in less than two months. But what do teenagers know about how the world works?

[@vindik8or]

I love reading military stories. Never have any idea what they're talking about what with all the acronyms and jargon they refuse to give up using or even explain, but they always seem so happy to tell their stories.

[@nolongeramused8135]

@@vindik8or Yes, but you don't matter to them, and why should they bother talking down to you?

[@vindik8or]

@@nolongeramused8135 you don't seem as happy as before.

[@timburke4837]

@@vindik8or Want to know what the acronyms are? Ask them. They,'ll explain. We use acronyms because Non Commissioned Officer In Charge is a lot of work which can easily be replaced by NCOIC which the cognoscenti understand. But most of us are willing to cut the newbie some slack.

[@mattiemathis9549]

I had a 1st sgt who hated single soldiers. Out of 19 soldiers who lived in the barracks, he got 10 of them chaptered out. It was abuse of authority to the extreme.

[@marc-andreservant201]

Arrest records should never be used to discriminate against people once the charges are resolved. Either you are convicted, in which case you have an actual criminal record, or you weren't, in which case you should be able to live your life as if the arrest never happened. In a democracy, an important principle is that we only punish the guilty.

[@orppranator5230]

Couldn’t agree more. False accusations and wrong actions taken by law enforcement should never impact the victim after the fact.

[@christopherkidwell9817]

Automatic expungement when you are taken to court and found not guilty should be the word of the day.

[@troodon1096]

Precisely... an arrest should never be taken as proof of having committed a crime, if it doesn't result in an actual criminal conviction. If there's not a law that says that already, there should be. Problem in this case is even worse though; people investigated who were never arrested or charged were recorded as being arrested. That's not just illegal, that's unconstitutional (5th amendment due process, for one).

[@donnavandezande3905]

These men were NEVER arrested!

[@stevenrichardson3000]

There was no arrest, dude. Investigation, not arrest

[@xlerb2286]

It's a sad day when your son or daughter comes to you saying they're thinking of enlisting and as a responsible parent you have to suggest they think it over, not because of the dangers in combat, but because of bureaucracy snafus that could ruin their lives and that the military doesn't care enough to do anything about.

[@JimDean002]

I've got a family member who went to school to become a teacher. Spent an extra year to get a special needs certification even. She did it for 2 years and couldn't stand the bureaucracy and the stupidity. She's now working in a private business making as much more money working with people that actually know what they're doing

[@timburke4837]

Inquiring minds want to know. Is the Russian word for bread really your KZbin handle? How droll.

[@xlerb2286]

@@timburke4837 I had no idea it was a word in any language. It's a nonsense string of letters from an old book for the FORTH programming language. I started using it as a handle because in the earlier days of the internet it was most always available.

[@AuntJoey]

Actually it's even worse. The VA is in the position of playing Government HR shop. They don't work for you, their job is to protect liability and deny deny counter-accuse while pedaling their pharmaceutical contracts. The whole system is narcissistic abuse.

[@Druffis]

As a recently discharged veteran I can tell you that military leadership is so incompetent. It takes months or years for anything to get corrected because they simply don’t care. People get rank by playing the game and not being good at their job. No wonder it takes something big for them to do anything these days. Glad I got out while I did.

[@HankScorpio64]

And whenever I express my view against the military I get derided as being "anti-american". They never want to hear why I am. I hear so many stories like this on how the military has ruined so many people's lives. How is the military a freaking good thing?! They aren't protecting anyones freedom they are just another tool for a political agenda of whoever's in charge and maintaining our interests. I think they conflate my anti-military stance with meaning "Anti-Vet" no I am not anti-vet. Anyone who has balls to go into the service does earn some moniker of respect even in a corrupt organization such as our military. You could be shot at and lose it all and I admire that.

[@statinskill]

Reenlist and we'll drop all false charges.

[@michaelhanson5773]

Thanks for your service... It is too bad how the military/govt treat their vets these days... I see all the commercials and adverts now to try to get people to join and i just keep thinking to myself that there has to be something wrong for how hard they are trying... And i just hear so many horror stories about vets that come back and not treated very well at all...

[@averagejoe112]

I mean they spent millions of dollars investigating that sailor who was accused of lighting the fire on a ship, couldn't find evidence and recommended dropping the charges, and then continued the prosecution for 2 years.

[@bikkiikun]

It's neither incompetence, nor isit lack of care... it's criminal intent.

[@CZpersi]

The very existence of “arrest records” is insane. Even if you are innocent, you still have this record, which stigmatizes you. I am glad this thing does not exist in my country.

[@johnemerson1363]

When I was just entering the job market I remember filling out applications that asked "have you ever been arrested..." Some time in the 1970's somebody realized the problem that caused and had the wording changed to "have you ever been convicted of a crime?" It made an enormous difference. When I was a policeman I arrested a lot of people that were never convicted for what ever reason. That is the way it should be. The only question should be "were you convicted".

[@buddygrimfield7954]

That does not make it ok to arrest people for bull crap to begin with. Just because you know that they will probably be let go when the charge(s) are dismissed does not make it right. Police make up crimes far too easily. Then they refuse to do their job when someone actually does commit an arrestable offense just because they are their friend/coworker/boss. Shame on you if that is what you did.

[@Predney]

@@buddygrimfield7954 he loves making money for the court. More arrests, more court fees. $$$

[@kenconnelly773]

@@buddygrimfield7954 it depends. If he did what you are speculating, then yes he shouldn’t be an officer. However there are reasons why someone won’t get convicted despite the arrest being justified. As an example, he could’ve arrested someone who deserved it, but the arrestee was buddy with the DA and got the charge dropped that way. I arrested someone once in the military who swore up and down he didn’t commit the crime I’m sure he committed. The JAG and the convening authority agreed with me and a court martial was convened. A panel of members (jury), felt there was at least reasonable doubt and returned a verdict of not guilty. Doesn’t mean I was wrong for arresting him (I’m sure he did it), it means I didn’t clear the “beyond a reasonable doubt” bar in front of his peers.

[@thewalkingcrow8946]

There's a technicality there that I was able to exploit to obtain a teacher's license. The wording was as you said, convicted. But I was sentenced to 0 years, 0 dollars, and 0 restitution and the judge overturned it and gave me probation which made me found guilty (the judge blocked evidence that would have exonerated me, but in the sentencing phase he couldn't do that and the jury realized what had happened) but without a conviction. So now in my state the teacher's license application reads "found guilty" instead of "convicted"

[@anteshell]

@@buddygrimfield7954 Did he try to excuse for false arrests? No. That shit is entirely pulled out of your ass, because in your vehement hatred against the police you are completely incapable of reasonably understanding what you're reading. You don't even try to understand, no. You immediately launch an attack with utterly baseless accusations with zero regard for the fact that there are plenty of reasons to justifiably arrest people even in cases where they are not convicted. If anyone should be ashamed, it is you.

[@meligoth]

I experienced being interrogated by CID, because a couple of troops in my platoon got narced on for pot. They were hoping that I also partaken so they can grill me to point out more people. Since I'm an alcoholic and not a pot head, they had nothing on me. They tried every dumb interrogation trick in the book , that others already confessed that I was involved, that I was protecting them because I had sexual relations (one is female), threatened charges, bargained with that I would be rewarded and so on. They even did the body language reading, because of the absurdity of the line of questioning I rolled my eyes. They said that was a sign of guilt. Bunch of morons!

[@joshuahudson2170]

Morons is right. They teach people to resist interrogation. Do they really expect to succeed?

[@meligoth]

@@joshuahudson2170 it's pretty common among all military branches that people will screw over others to advance their careers which makes them even less qualified for higher positions except on paper. Lots of convictions, but no due process. Millions of dollars recovered, but almost 4 times as much wasted to get that paltry amount. That's why our law enforcement as a whole is screwed, because ruining lives is easier than enforcing the law.

[@shootingbricks8554]

If CID was really trained in interrogation they would know body language alone doesn't demonstrate someone is lying lol

[@robpetkoff3268]

They tried that shit on me too, but for a different reason. I immediately asked for an attorney and the interview stopped. Drove over to Jag, met with a really nice CPT. He asked me when my discharge was. “In a month or two when my paperwork is done.” Said he’d stall them until I was out and once discharged they couldn’t touch me. I never heard from any of them again.

[@hermesten1000]

CID, NCIS, etc, are more political enforcers than law enforcement.

[@stephenbinion6348]

I’m retired military. This doesn’t shock me at all.

[@graygrumbler4253]

I retired from working with the US Army as a civilian employee. I have seen so much miscommunication of data from one federal entity to another federal entity (as in the story) in my career that I know this is much more common than should ever be allowed to stand. Then there is the staunch denial of any wrong doing by the entities involved. SNAFU

[@rarelibra]

You should look into how Bush Jr created ODNI and the agencies were supposed to "share" data... and all it did was cause further compartmentalization

[@IceHibiscus]

This will never change, sadly.

[@scurvofpcp]

To put this in perspective, I retired from federal service as well, and at one point my supervisor had started doing the stalking thing and threatening family. And as per OPM and the chain of command I had, there is nothing they can do if a supervisor at letter kenny army depot is taking pictures of your female child relations and jerking off on said pictures to show you.

[@pilsplease7561]

SNAFU is real with the Military, Situation Normal All Fu**ed up. My cousins in the marines right now telling me constantly about a bunch of bs thats been going on.

[@jeromethiel4323]

In the military, i can tell you this. Once you get above a certain level in rank, it's not about ability, it's about politics and connections. The vast majority of the military go to work every day and do their jobs. But when you get to the upper levels, weird crap starts happening.

[@mythreepigs520]

Seems to be the case with everything these days . Weird crap starts happening ain’t that the truth i like the way you stated that

[@Br3ttM]

That's how management is in every field, unless there is some very strong competition that forces efficiency. Bureaucracy expands over time, so that generally doesn't occur in any established field, and almost never in anything related to government.

[@tomsims7868]

I am a parking lot attendant for a large event I work with the police they know I happen to have a large amount of electronics knowledge politics aside they know I am willing to volunteer as a bomb tech if needed at this level its about willing to serve and able to do so somebody below the the local police chief had to take note at this point the fun and games are in play but some level of personal intergerty is in play so if it was a false flag he would be in trouble for allowing me to defuse it but would likely have me do so anyway the local police chief seems to be a pretty honest guy as well but the pressure increases as you go up the chain we the people need to push back on this just by somebody like me volunteering for this job is a push back they are less likely to do a false flag if they know they have a bomb tech on site sure not as good as guy who trained for it I did brush up on my study of high voltage discharge devices and tamper resistant trigger circuits they will have the the tools I need and I know how to use them as they common repair tools for TVs and such nothing special while extra care is needed as no mistakes every action needs to be analyzed and well planed with intent and known effect on the rest of the circuit I also have a contact that has designed test equipment so I can get the job done and be their quicker as I am already on site most people would steer clear with the rest of the public but I am patriot willing to do what is needed I do not extra pay for this and the risk of somebody making a false report to get limited resources out of place is a real risk hence they have me on standby should I be needed

[@Steve-mk6rq]

Usually satanic masses at 3 am twice a week for the military "insiders".

[@huwhitecavebeast1972]

Freemason buddy network. Also a little affirmative action.

[@jeffs475]

I was a Recruiter during this time and was investigated years after I retired. The “agents” that investigated were retired and brought back as contractors. My involvement with GRAP was only by proxy. I had two friends who were flagged, neither had committed fraud. These men were recruiters just doing their jobs. Fortunately these guys survived it however it did cost them.

[@hhholsteiners]

An arrest should not be a background check issue ... just a conviction!

[@diablominero]

Haven't you heard? We don't have "innocent until proven guilty" anymore in this country.

[@rikkilleen3169]

It gets worse. They just started a policy that if you are accused of sexual harassment or assault, you go into the database and that database must be consulted for any promotion above Captain - EVEN IF THE ALLEGATIONS WERE NEVER SUBSTANTIATED! Not arrested, just accused, and your career as an officer is over even if there was never a reasonable suspicion enough for a formal complaint.

[@hhholsteiners]

@LegalEagle help

[@ickster23]

I'm a very firm believer of "an eye for an eye" justice system. Those who were involved in destroying careers through administrative malpractice should be tried and, if found guilty, subject to having their files reflect the same "flag", thereby eliminating their chance of promotion and limiting their future prospects. It is oy when subject to actual repercussions that people stop engaging in these types of practices.

[@RoseKindred]

There were so many violations with this. I hope they have a way to restore their name(s) and get restitution for the losses they have suffered. One person lost his job, another cannot be promoted, and so on. I see both civil and federal violations in this story.

[@christopherkidwell9817]

Agreed. Someone needs to be put in prison over this who ran this 'investigation'... and I use the term very loosely.

[@MarlowQAI]

Confidence is low, it's not like anyone at that level in the Army is willing to admit their screwup!

[@napolean2160]

I hope many Army officials are both jailed and sued

[@RAF238thCdr84]

Service members (past or present) can't sue the government for suff that happened during their service.

[@YoureSoVane]

I heard about a guy who lost rank for a sexual harassment case that was later proved to be false (she accused six people in three months) and he never got his rank back

[@dviljoen]

"Task Force Raptor" haha! That's hilarious. I am an Army veteran, and was also a government contractor for Intelligence programs for 5 years. It was a joke in the government contracting circles because so many projects were named "Raptor." It was a favorite. I even worked on one myself. But ours was suggested as a joke, and the managers liked it. You can't make this stuff up. We called it that "ironically."

[@m4nwo]

Yf22 Raptors are amazing. Why did I name it that? I was asked too. Seriously, this turned out way bigger then my first impression the lieutenant and NCO involved gave me. I got investigated for G-Rap and I named the Task Force Raptor because it's my favorite jet. My life changed. When I got my record in the mail and read that I was arrested I called the Agent back and he did say that that's how he closes the case. Career gone in a split second. I feel like the fall guy.

[@AeroGuy07]

My oldest daughter was in the USAF and as a victim of a crime she and 12 other women were treated horribly by the military justice system.

[@Ripper13F1V]

My MiL was in the Navy, raped, and immediately discharged with no benefits or anything. They gave her a failure to train because she was in the hospital and needed psychological counseling obviously. Fast forward 40 + years, and I was able to help her get into the VA, and get her on the right path. She now has coverage, and they were able to see what transpired and had the a-ha moment that helped her secure disability.. But it's taken years. Leave it to the .gov to screw everything up.

[@sheerluckholmes5468]

There is no military justice system, there is only a military legal system.

[@Nirrrina]

I'm so sorry for that.

[@ostrich67]

Veteran here. I would tell any young woman to RUN from any recruiting office. I've met some of the worst people in my military service.

[@walterarrit5511]

I worked in yhe military justice system. If you can check out Article 137. One of the spe ificztions is conduct unbecoming the good order and discipline of the military service. If you know what that is you are a genius.

[@DavidNewmanDr]

In Europe and possibly California, this would come under data protection law. Under GDPR conditions the Army is entitled to keep records of its soldiers and other who work for it. Police agencies are entitled to keep records of criminal behaviour so they can run background checks. But people have the right to get ask for their data to be corrected. If it is wrong, the organisation has to correct the data. Now the army could argue that its data didn't say the people had been arrested, merely investigated, so it was correct. Then you go to the FBI and others keeping data used in background checks and ask them to correct the way they have labelled an investigated suspect as an arrest. Apart from California, do other states have good data protection laws?

[@rongarrett1366]

I had a reckless driving ticket on my record when I arrived home after six years of active duty in the Army, the last five in Germqny. I wasn't even in Indiana on the day when I was supposed to be driving recklessly. I was listed on the morning report at my duty station in Neckarsulm, Germany. I had to pay ridiculously high insurance premiums when I returned home to Indiana.

[@thecursed01]

i live near eucom. some of you americans need to come back and open some good texmex food places. btw could you get that record removed if not press criminal charges for...idk false charges?

[@rongarrett1366]

@@thecursed01 I was attending Ivy Tech Community College in South Bend, Indiana, when I was paged to the office. There a nice Indiana State Police Officer (they do exist) had me sign a form verifying that I was not in Indiana on the date of the infraction. He informed me that it was no longer on my record.

[@thecursed01]

@@rongarrett1366 happy to read that. were there any records of who accused you or who supposedly arrested you? would have been fun XD

[@Kacee2]

Welcome home soldier.

[@rongarrett1366]

@@Kacee2 ♥♥♥♥♥

[@darrellepickering8433]

My father, a WW2 survivor, was a POW from 10/44 - 5/45. He was pre-Battle of The Bulge. After he was liberated & brought back to the states, he tried to get help from the army for PTSD or whatever it was called at the time. He was told there was no record of him being in the service. He also told me he had to sign a paper not to talk about his POW time. What that was about I have no idea.

[@XeviousHound]

Ironic, the army came to investigate fraud, then committed fraud

[@eddiekersey]

Ironic for sure, but not surprising.

[@wxwxsrg]

Not ironic, expected.

[@mistermudpie]

I live in Europe. In my country, arrests (which are more rare, you're not arrested for any silly thing) are not put on your record. Neither are convictions, until they are final. Only when every last form of appeal has been exhausted, if your initial conviction stands, are you actually taken to prison and it's entered into your record.

[@richardcontinijr9661]

That's a very sensible approach. I'm going to take a wild guess and say you live in a Eastern European country. In my own travels around the world I have found Eastern Europeans to be some of the most sensible people.

[@mistermudpie]

@@richardcontinijr9661 Indeed, Romania actually.

[@richardcontinijr9661]

@@mistermudpie I passed thru Romania many years ago on my way to Ukraine and Belarus. I didn't get a chance to spend a lot of time there but what I did see I liked. I did fall in love with Poland and Bulgaria. Belarus was a weird and depressing country.

[@XXXkazeXXX]

In Finland too. Often in a newspaper article it says at the end ”The conviction has no legal validity” if an appeal is possible. Only after every appeal opportunity is the conviction legal.

[@Vagabond_Etranger]

I have a brother in law from Romania, Dragos.

[@BlackJesus8463]

“It is better to let 100 criminals go free than to imprison one innocent man.” - Benjamin Franklin

[@harbingerofwarx995]

Those odds are awful. Make it 1,000,000 to 1.

[@scottmcshannon6821]

ive always wondered about that quote and wondered how many would get murdered if that was followed.

[@Tathanic]

what if the 100 are terrorists and the innocent man is 1 of the many people who die anyway ☺

[@lunaticbz3594]

It is better to imprison 100 innocent people then let one for profit jail go bankrupt. The PIC

[@m4nwo]

Truth.

[@RoyatAvalonFarms]

gross injustice indeed! thank Heaven I retired earlier this year. however, during the period of the G-RAP era, I was a Captain and company commander when it started and later a Major. the generals and other top leaders crammed this program down our throats with ferocious intensity. we were required to conduct training on the program. every soldier HAD to sign up as a "recruiter" in the program. kind of like the mandatory shots in the contemporary era. we had to report every week on the status of leads we had within our units and how many turned into recruits. many soldiers just made up leads and even got personal info from their friends and neighbors just to have something to report to look like they were "trying" to comply. the intimidation from our top general and his Colonel in WV was relentless. THOSE men are the ones who should be arrested, for real, and even go to jail. I'd testify against them even today. fortunately I sucked as a recruiter. I did get a few leads, but none ever resulted in becoming a recruit for which I could claim the "prize money". as a leader who prides myself on high ethics, this program always felt dirty right from the start, in how it was designed and executed. I do think it was good to reward the soldiers who really worked to recruit others. but they way it was executed and forced on everyone was a horrendous failure in good leadership from the top. I did the best I could to tap dance around in reporting to the general without pressuring my men in the way that we were expected to do so. it was about the best cover i could give them.

[@bullnukeoldman3794]

Army CID and the Navy's NCIS are cut from the same cloth - both are used by senior general officers to protect reputations/careers in times of PR trouble. Corruption in the recruiting process? Send in CID to find lower ranking "guilty" to cover those higher up running the program. NCIS did this with the Iowa turret explosion and, more recently, the Bonhomme Richard fire in San Diego where both junior enlisted members were pointed out as guilty to protect the careers and reputations of members of the senior officer corps with failed responsibilities.

[@Bob-Lob-Law]

CYA

[@jame3shook]

Just like Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, the soldiers following explicit orders from above, yet held responsible where as the personnel issuing the orders got off. Further, the soldiers' defense was they weren't properly trained for the detail, yet the unit that trained them had the records - from a ANG friend involved.

[@deejayyy1681]

Sooooo.... corporate America as well

[@candacevalentine9394]

Having served all enlisted and NCOs. Know 💩 runs downhill and those below COs know COs are teflon 💩 distribution systems.

[@hermesten1000]

If there's one thing you can depend on in the Navy it is that they will always scapegoat enlisted personnel for the negligence and incompetence of command. Command is more likely to get a medal than even a reprimand.

[@Caiminho]

I have a friend who was a victim of domestic violence by his wife at the time. He tried to do the right thing and go to Navy Family Advocacy and counseling, even though she refused to do any of it. When the time came to start a new civilian job on base, his background check came back negative due to domestic violence in his record. It took over two weeks for JAG to give him a modified record of the police report ( which he should not have lost,i know he had to be given a copy) that showed he was the victim. At that point, the job offer was rescinded.

[@Music-lx1tf]

I served in Nam. I was offered $10K and and promotion to staff Sargent but declined. The army was f...ed up then and still is. Why anyone would serve today is beyond me.

[@samrapheal1828]

"Correctamundo"💯

[@shaunsmith18]

I am in the Army and I almost did that program back in 2007. It was an opportunity to to make a little bit of money and at the same time assist in meeting recruitment goals...it was a win-win. The process to get credit for referring people was a bit of a hassle. I pitched the good and bad with enlisting in the Army. Eventually I gave up on the money and let them decide what to do. I dodged a huge bullet. Still here in the Army 29 years, deployed to Kuwait.

[@kk33613]

This story is the definition of "Throwing Good Money After Bad."

[@DrVincentDoom]

It’s easy spending money when it’s not yours. They collect billions annually and literally throw it around

[@987654321wormy]

I was serving while this program was operating. Army branded clothing was offered in addition to the cash payments. I received an Army Reserve pull over jacket to promote the branch. Never thought I'd possibly get a record for some cheap swag.

[@m4nwo]

You know I feel that. And for me, I named the Task Force Raptor and got branded a criminal.

[@gibblespascack1418]

Wow, this could be directly taken from Robocop 2. The lawyer tells the CEO: "Whether the evidence exists or not, I am sure that we will find it." Now the army is doing that.

[@thecursed01]

just like starting a major war that has spawned others, hundreds of thousands killed, millions and millions of refugees becasue "we will find those weapons of mass destruction/proof saddam is behind 9/11"

[@m4nwo]

Creepy.

[@georgesheffield1580]

Late 70's and early 80's reserve and NG Officiers would send out letters to Nam Vets threatening them to attend meetings they "supposedly " had been missing . Many disabled vets recirved these letters .

[@Skank_and_Gutterboy]

The Army's recruiting statistics are terrible this year, this is sure to help.

[@mightymikethebear]

It will help potential soldiers change their minds about enlisting.

[@FarckewVerimucc]

Combine it with the fiasco involving the poke, and asking all those people back. I read 43 out of roughly 8000 returned to service.

[@Skank_and_Gutterboy]

@@FarckewVerimucc I believe it.

[@chuckles3236]

Having spent twenty years in the Army, I can tell you there many, many people who are completely inept in their job at ALL ranks throughout the military.

[@gordonshumway7239]

There’s a reason why people often use “Military Intelligence” as an example of an oxymoron …

[@jps1]

Hold on one second. Even *if* they were arrested AND charged, how can that be grounds to deny a carry permit? Convictions and guilty pleas are what matter. Simply being arrested, or arrested and charged is meaningless without some conviction.

[@JimDean002]

That my friend is a very good question. It taskes a conviction for a denial

[@williamrose7184]

Because in certain states the chief can deny you for any reason that he wants. what you do is you take it to court and it will be approved then.

[@jimhavoc]

It seems like the people conducting the investigation of recruiters who padded their recruitment numbers actually padded their arrest numbers.

[@mumblesbadly7708]

💯

[@Waterlooplein1]

There are so many programs out there to help and protect our military and our veterans. Where are they now?

[@combatvet1100]

Who ever authorized that program should be punished, not the ones who applied it.

[@brendamayfuller8803]

Publicly flogged as a warning to the next group to think carefully about what they are doing and how many lives they destroyed. Then 10 years hard labor breaking rocks somewhere.

[@saltycreole2673]

My daughter who is a 4 year NJROTC Grad refuses to go into the military. She says she won't take orders from men in women's uniforms among other reasons. I related to her my years of experiences in the USAF since 1976 to retirement and she said, "It isn't like that now Dad"! I agree. I expect the Navy to sanction her for her refusal. She can run my ranch instead. That's my girl!

[@whatabouttheearth]

"men in women's uniforms"? Wtf?

[@johnjdumas]

A copy of this should be sent to every Senator. Almost everyone has relatives who served. Literally disgraceful!

[@DrShawnBerry]

The bureaucracy is truly astounding. They manage to lose medical and accommodation records.

[@RoseNZieg]

I hope the higher ups who thought of this disgusting thing get the book thrown at them.

[@marks3750]

Not likely as they are the ones throwing the book.

[@croiners4166]

More injustice from our government!

[@ryanburnham1932]

I submitted my name for a few soldiers near then end of the program and was mad when I didn't get paid for the only successful one because the program had just ended. I am no longer mad that I didn't get paid.

[@DB-yj3qc]

Same situation and glad too.

[@clayhughes3263]

I retired out of the guard, and the GRAP program was definitely abused by some people. I was glad when it finally got shut down. Most of the people abusing the system though, were the actual recruiters. Because they were recruiters they were not eligible for the cash money payments, which really pissed off a lot of recruiters. So what they would do instead was use a non-recruiter’s name or their buddy’s name and put them down as the referral and split the cash. I heard of a few times where people got calls from CID investigating them as listed recipients of payments but they never recruited anyone and never got any payments. It was a big mess and all about money. Just one of many examples of gross mismanagement and fiscal irresponsibility by our military.

[@RoyatAvalonFarms]

yep, I heard of several of those cases as well. several recruiters involved in that scheme.

[@tomhollins5303]

Makes sense: gross mismanagement of the program... followed by gross mismanagement of the investigation. There appears to be a theme developing.

[@FrankHeuvelman]

💣They're hired to destroy things and even suck at that.

[@Matt_of_the_mountains]

Also, who would be shocked to find out that recruiters sometimes might not tell the truth.

[@DB-yj3qc]

No surprise I got over 15 people to enlist in Army, USAR but somehow the P/W disappeared on it. So I guess it's a good thing. 🤔

[@robertm348]

As a twenty-six-year veteran of the US Navy, I appreciate your attitude towards our military. Thank you, it was my honor to serve my country and yes, I would do it again. What is happening to those men and women in the Army is a terrible injustice. The only way for those people to be absolved is to band together to put pressure on the Army to fix this. Social media is a great place to start.

[@atticstattic]

_Where the hell have you been, soldier?_ -- *Justice, sir!* _What kind of justice, son?_ -- *Aaaaaaarmy justice sir!*

[@j.l.m.6862]

A new scene for an old movie. You can't make this poop up, truth is stranger than fiction.

[@RAF238thCdr84]

As a former Marine (once a Marine always a Marine I know lol) I can speak from experience..., a large percentage of middle ranked individuals, both officers and enlisted, are there because it's the best job they can get... Some E-7 most likely started reporting it like that and no one questioned it for fear of having to do more work, eventually it became "well that's the way its always been done..."

[@whatabouttheearth]

😂 that annoys me also, I say former Marine to differentiate me from someone still in and some civilian will say "there are no former Marines", oy vey. SNAFUBAR!

[@regulator18E]

I came close to participating on GRAP but was too lazy to actuslly try to get people to join. Thank God for laziness! Edit: and though this was handled very wrong, I can understand the investigation. So much fraud in that program, recruiters just assigning recruits to people as GRAP referrals even though they had never met them. Trying to hook up their friends and get a kickback for doing so.

[@shootingbricks8554]

The Army National Guard can't even get my pay right. I ain't trusting them with GRAP

[@johnmcclain3887]

Hi Steve, thanks for doing this one. I served twenty in the marines, did recruiting 90-93 out of Richmond, Va and retired in 97. These things happen often these days because of electronic management, remote working, and as you say, civilians doing record keeping/maintenance in D.C. The Army was completely remote managed by civilians when I was recruiting, the recruiters had many problems we didn't in the marines and it often was simply sloppy work connected with the fact it seemed they had no real connection with the "armed forces" and the substantial culture difference. There were records in my office from twenty years prior, lots of students who never served, and there was no system for clearing or even considering such.

[@walterarrit5511]

I find it hard to believe a civilian could be more screwed up than the military.

[@charleshetrick3152]

…and they wonder now why they’ve recruiting problems.

[@CrankyBeach]

Not quite the same thing... but I have a disabled veteran friend. She served in the 1980s and received an honorable discharge. Several years later, when she was literally bedridden with her service-connected disability, she received a summons to report for duty to such-and-such base. I suggested she let them come get her and carry her back into active duty on a stretcher. I don't remember whatever came of this snafu, but in 2009 she did pass a background check, so apparently they didn't label her as having been arrested for something.

[@markcleveland3790]

This sounds like a great case for The Institute for Justice!

[@tedmitchell226]

I doubt they get into military tribunals, due too the military having their own laws

[@patriot9455]

@@tedmitchell226 I agree, in principle, but this would be one time to try.

[@michaelnaretto3409]

The military treats servicemembers like this then they turn around and wonder why morale is in the sewer, no one wants to re-enlist or even join.

[@natashaowens8780]

There is something here that I really don't understand. An Arrest record does not equal a conviction. How can a record of being arrested have a negative effect? Is this not a violation of due process as someone is being punished for a potentially false accusation. Being arrested does not mean you are guilty after all. Can anyone comment on the American system? does a record of being arrested have an impact on your future?

[@jameygroves8561]

CID listing you in the Title of the record in question appears on NICS (for firearm purchases) and NCIC (for general background checks) as open unresolved charges. Since most of these would be seen as felony charges, you are denied buying a firearm or a multitude of possible services such as renting an apartment. There needs to be serious reform of this system as well as immediate class action lawsuit. I would also suggest anyone interested to contact their federal reps and senators to demand open hearings. Nothing gets the Army's attention like being drug up to testify on Capital Hill before Congress.

[@kellymitchell8698]

Secretary of the Army and the Army Chief of Staff need to fix this yesterday!

[@James.Walston]

100% agree that this probably was not done correctly. When I was a military prosecutor, I tried very hard to make sure our CID agents abided by the requirement of credible evidence for each and every crime to title anyone for those crimes. It's a devastating procedural action that's almost entirely irreversible and unchallengeable (absent incorrect identification or erroneous clerical recording). And that's not to dig on CID, they're great, it's a Judge Advocate's job to make sure the nuanced legal standards are met. The regulations say titling is just procedural, and it means nothing... Well, the regulations also say a general officer memorandum of reprimand isn't punishment (except in limited circumstances), but it's almost certainly a career ender these days.

[@carlmcdaniels1675]

A Field Officer memorandum or Letter of reprimand can also be a career ender. That hasn't changed in the past several decades.

[@walterarrit5511]

The military justice system was garbage. MPs were unqualified, lawyers met their clients the day of court and only senior NCOc and officers were ever found innocent.

[@m4nwo]

I just need my life back.

[@walterarrit5511]

@@m4nwo Best of luck. It isn't going to be easy.

[@Ima-hoot]

The people who authorized and the people who decided to ruin all these lives should be the ones who need the criminal records ! We need names of these people and how they were involved !

[@scottgrant2689]

When you hear stuff like this were is this greatness about this country we keep hearing about, our government is no longer for the people 😟

[@phiddlephart7026]

Military's idea of spending is similar to my wife's. Ex. she buys a table marked down from 40$ to 10$ claiming a 30$ saving, BUT we didn't need one!

[@braddl9442]

I want everyone in task force raptor investigated and given a criminal record

[@stevepettersen3283]

You would think that if a veteran showed his/her copy of their Department of Defense form 214 (Certificate of Release or Discharge From Active Duty) to a potential employer that would prove innocence, or at least cause doubt as to the validity of the "arrest record". It would show any military conviction, blocks 23 through 29 show the type and reason for separation. Block 29 shows "time lost", which is for a service member being AWOL, desertion, prison time served.

[@phillipcooley83]

There's nothing that can't be made worse by government

[@KabobHope]

I'm with the government and I'm here to help.

[@jw8160]

I would change the word government to bureaucracy. Bureaucracies ruin companies, schools, industries, etc...

[@BLACKM3SA]

My mom was discharged because someone dropped her name at a party or something that had drugs on base. Just her name, no other people could collaborate, but that was it for her to be kicked out.

[@karlrovey]

I read about this yesterday and knew I would probably be seeing it on your channel soon. I remember a few articles about this program a few years ago too.

[@karlrovey]

Also, it wouldn't surprise me if this doesn't get resolved without an act of congress ordering them to expunge all "titles" where there was no conviction for this program. Congress had to force the army to assume all soldiers who served in Vietnam were exposed to agent orange. They can force the army to remove the misleading records too.

[@DBAllen]

When I was in the Navy they had a retention motto saying "If you're good it pays to stay in". Most of us said yeah but if you're smart, you'll get the f--k out.

[@ssmt2]

I remember that motto. The other response that was going around was “And if you’re not good, it pays the same”.

[@OcteractSG]

Someone needs to serve jail time for this. If I caused GI Joe to get a false criminal record, I would be locked up for felony identity theft myself. It should be no different for the responsible persons in the Army’s management.

[@JohnSmith-gm4fj]

US Gov; "We will save money at any cost!"

[@snakeplissken526]

Perhaps it should be "We will spend money in order to save money... at any cost!"

[@johntc8840]

Son just got out of the US Marines after his time was up. If people knew how bad it really is on many levels, very few people would join. I suspect a study looking at complaints against law enforcement officers and whether or not the officers had served in the military would be telling.

[@deusvult6920]

Steve I'm a former investigator that was in CID (specifically the drug team) and also spent time as the POC for people that wanted to be removed from the title block of a case when I was the MP Station records warden as a regular MP. The Army doesn't charge people the same way civilian works does. DOD regs require someone be placed as a subject of a founded investigation when there's sufficient information to lead a trained investigator to believe they committed X crime. It is exceptionally lower than probable cause. There were plenty of times when JAG would opine there wasn't PC but we still placed them as subjects. This is a quirk of how the military justice system works and its not likely to change. I don't think this is right. I think there needs to be PC but it let's CID close cases we don't want to keep open and keep our closure rate > 90% - so the USACIDC COC loves it. I always hated it. The entire time I was in

[@oregonexpat]

I would be happy to let the Army have its “quirks”, except they obviously are incompetent and have ruined careers. So this is a quirk that needs a kick in the crotch to straighten it out and bring it in line. No arrest? No arrest record. Period. Even in the military you are entitled to counsel, and here they were never even charged! How can the Army stand by this travesty of justice? There is nothing to defend, as it is indefensible. Goes against both the constitution and the UCMJ. In fact, a case can be made that the people who perpetrated this should have been charged. Dereliction of duty for starters.

[@davidtherwhanger6795]

I was in the Navy. We described it as your rights are suspended as soon as you say the oath given by a commissioned officer. And from then on you are guilty until proven innocent.

[@DocHellfish]

CID are the biggest scumbags in military history. The kind of people who need to be worried for themselves if the government falls apart.. which is looking more likely.

[@DocHellfish]

@@davidtherwhanger6795 yes.. but when you take that uniform off.. its a different story.. a lot of people in the military forget they have to take it off some day.. especially officers who can have some former private appear in their bushes one morning. With some of the reprehensible shit I saw in career, I'm absolutely amazed it isn't a regular news topic.

[@stevejette2329]

Deus - A lot of us have never been in the military justice system. So we don't know what all the acronyms mean. CID, POC, MP, DOD, JAG, PC, USACIDC ,COC ... and you obviously have information that would help people understand.

[@spirithorse4989]

What the bloody hell! Troops are treated like tools, nothing more. The corruption is disgusting.

[@braddl9442]

Imagine the set up a group to investigate possible misuses of funds, and the RAPTOR group does worse crimes they what they were investigating. its a crime to create false records and evidence right? The investigators did more crimes then then the crime they were investigating.

[@benx6264]

the worst part about this is they will never be able to clear their names - how can you possibly prove that you were NOT arrested?

[@nelskrogh3238]

Yep, sure sounds like the Army to me. In for 4 years, worked for them for over 35 years, and never witnessed any hint of good management.

[@johnthompson7548]

I had a landlord that collected rent. Then was fired for embezzlement. Instead of going after him, they went after the tenants to pay it back.

[@stillraven9415]

God save us from bureaucrats!

[@davekramer4266]

Like I've been Saying, the Government INCOMPETENCE is HORRENDOUS!

[@candle86]

I never even made it to basic because between acceptance at meps and ship out I got lung damage from my job, and medically disqualified from being allowed to serve. Someone forgot to file the paperwork however and I was marked as AWOL because I didn't report to basic training, I lost my job because of it, and who knows how many jobs I was denied, after I found out I went and called my old recruiter, he checked and sure enough I'm AWOL, so he filed what he called a Code Red, I was notified a year and half later that my record was updated and I was marked as medically prevented from service and was no longer listed as AWOL. That's the wonders of the underlying army

[@zechsblack5891]

I had a friend get recruited by a predatory recruitment officer around "the Iraq surge" move to increase recruitment . He had severe asthma, life long drug problems, and had been on every antipsychotic youve ever heard of. The recruiter told him to just pretend none of that had happened and had falsified some enlistment documents to get him in. He actually did make it to basic, had asthma attacks that they claimed was him faking it to get out of PT since his paperwork didn't say he had any conditions, had a psychotic episode, went AWOL, and ended up walking and hitchhiking until he was home 4 states away. He promptly picked up his old heroin habit and hid in flop houses for a year or so until he was finally caught and arrested for being AWOL. He eventually got a medical discharge and the AWOL shit was cleared I think because the recruiter was arrested as this was far from the only case he had meddled in. He's dead now. Sixth or seventh OD finally got him.

[@candle86]

@@zechsblack5891 Sorry to hear that, my recruiter wasn't like that at all, good honest guy, when I got lung damage he filled out the paperwork with me and we mailed it from his office, whoever got the paperwork screwed up. I don't know what happened to Sergent Morgan but he was one of the best folks I knew, last I heard he was working for the Army in Kentucky but that was a decade ago no idea now.

[@Falcon-mc5fs]

Scapegoats for the crime to give a paper trail of justice publicly while the spotlight is taken off the orchestrators.

[@jaybingham3711]

There undoubtedly were plenty of brass who were responsible for bringing this illegal program into being. Have they been charged? Do their records reflect the charges? Are they still employed in the military? Are any of them collecting a pension? This is a KEY main aspect that needs to be investigated and reported on.

[@walterarrit5511]

The answer to your question is an obvious no!

[@Zyworski]

The soldiers are right to sue for damages and they deserve their day in court.

[@keinlieb3818]

What erks me is that if you're arrested, even if you're 100% innocent, it goes on your record that you were arrested and you'll be treated like a criminal even though you've never broken the law. Example, getting arrested and charged with murder, you're 100% innocent and yet it's still on your record that you were arrested for murder, but never convicted. Arrest records are the problem here. Arrest records should be expunged immediately if it's proven that you're innocent.

[@whatabouttheearth]

If you are arrested and do not get charged it doesn't stay on your record, or at least not in most states.

[@keinlieb3818]

@@whatabouttheearth how do you get arrested without being charged with a crime? A cop pulls me over and arrests me, is he just arresting me because he can or am I being charged with a crime and that's why I'm being arrested? Being charged does not equal being found guilty. People have arrest records for things they were never found guilty of.

[@libbylandscape3560]

This is such an injustice both ethically, morally, and legally.

[@brianjacobsen8878]

Just like your public Judicial system. They accuse you. You lose everything fighting it. Great system.

[@jeffreyolson3878]

This whole thing needs to be re-investigated, and corrected!

[@SlipShodBob]

There was me thinking it was only us (UK) that did that to our military personnel and veterans.

[@TheNaldiin]

We keep making John Stewart fix it but he's one man.

[@maiqtheliar789]

Screwing over military and veterans is international. One of the oldest traditions in any government in the world.

[@Maxim.Teleguz]

How is this even possible

[@walterarrit5511]

Never underestimate the militaries ability to screw something up.

[@ricknelson947]

Criminal charges should be brought on those who placed this bogus information in their files. Their names should be traceable. Restitution should be paid.

[@tugglemiles2991]

The 1st day Dad got off the shop in England he was asked by a Col. To help sandbag as it was flooding. When he got to base he was listed AWOL. It took 2 days but he found the Col. He got rid of it retroactively. Left hand and right hand got together finally.

[@JimDean002]

My dad did three tours in Korea. When it was a shooting war. Hated every minute. He got back and a recruiting Sergeant took him out drinking and convinced him that he'd done his time and he should re-up because there's no way they would send him back. His drunken self signed the papers and the next day he found out they were in fact planning on sending him back. He went and found the recruiting sgt. And let's just say they had a meeting of the minds and he did not reenlist after all.

[@elanahammer1076]

Wow. That is the epitome of injustice. Thank you 🤔❤🇺🇸

[@justmousinaround]

Steve, don't know if you have interest in digging in some more but this story needs a deeper dive. Someone needs to explain to me how any organization can keep an incorrect entry on a record that is easily disprovable and if they refuse to remove it, would handily lose in any courtroom? Even if they refuse to change it on their end, a court could force the FBI to remove it from their databases (I believe that all criminal database record searches are sourced from here). I had a situation where the Support Collect folks suspended my license claiming I had not paid child support despite showing them proof of a canceled check (they claimed that wasn't sufficient 🤨). I took them to court, was immediately granted relief in my favor, and went to DMV. Local DMV did not know what to do because it turns out the SCU can lock DMV out of records to be sure no one gets their license restored without their say so. SCU was appealing the court order and refused to restore my license. I showed a supervisor at DMV the court order, they called Albany (NY DMV HQ) and got a programmer to restore my license and lock SCU out from changing it. The point of this is that a court order forcing the removal of this clearly phony entry for these soldiers can occur despite the denial of the Army to do so. I cannot accept that this is the simple explanation that cost these soldiers jobs and reputations. Their is something we have not been told here. What person would accept dismissal and sit back and say oh well? As for SCU, they appealed 3 times and lost every time. The only reason they didn't appeal again as I served them with a draft of a notice of claim, basically threatening I was going to sue them for harassment and they knew they would never win. The proof they were seeking all along??? A phone message or letter from my ex-wife saying she got paid.

[@whatabouttheearth]

Civilian courts do not apply to the military and are unrelated to the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice). This is on their military records.

[@TheArmchairrocker]

Time to sue the Army and FBI.

[@BrockJaden]

Even if they WERE arrested and WERE charged...how can that end up in NCIS without a conviction?

[@shenmisheshou7002]

Whoever autorized the creation of this scheme should be charged with submitting a false record, and the government should be sued for damages, which sounds like a work in progress.

[@m4nwo]

If you have this on your record and are charged for a crime later it definitely would have interfered in any subsequent and unrelated investigations. Like a DA who never served.

[@ricashbringer9866]

The investigators need to be investigated. Who watches the watchers.

[@rangerk9]

Deep appreciations for covering this massive injustice! 28 yr combat vet that has had my family and I, go through hell!

[@MrVanhovey]

Similar thing happened to me when my "now dead" step brother used my name and birth date as an alias for when he would get arrested. That happened frequently through his short, drug addicted life. Now I suffer the consequences as "arrests" become part of the public record.

[@peggyh8937]

Wow, this is insane! Thanks for raising awareness!

[@johncolacchio231]

Thank you Steve for recognizing our hundreds of thousands of military veterans men and women like who gave 20 more of the years of the lives to serve this nation. I’m a disabled veteran thank you for all you do