This Painting Made Everyone Cringe. Here’s Why.

[@astrinymris9953]

I read that Lady Mary thought Pope was joking because she considered his dramatic declaration too completely over the top to be sincere, and that was why she burst into laughter. She had never intended to hurt his feelings, or mock him.

[@pansepot1490]

Sounds probable.

[@DRJoe100]

Common deflection and/or ,way to avoid acknowledging the awkward profession that’s still used today

[@s0up_1223]

That’s reasonable

[@annnee6818]

Seems likely, seeing as they were friends, why would she want to crush him? His reaction also seems feasible, if he had that inferiority complex.

[@dont-want-no-wrench]

or not, judging by my experience with pretty girls, it was likely heartlessness

[@midnight_rose2337]

Okay... but she was married. How did he expect her to respond? She also made it very clear she only saw him as a friend.

[@whitedragoness23]

He probably wanted her to have an affair or leave her husband. He wasn’t thinking about her, just himself.

[@BT-su1yf]

@@whitedragoness23 she was a bitch

[@hopefullcompatriot5394]

@Amethyst is true, but he probably knew how the relationship was going

[@NA-AN]

@@WhiteStripesStripiestFan After watching cgp grey AND this video I have come to a conclusion: The guy was a real dickhead lol.

[@sabin97]

" but she was married" that didnt seem to matter to her, so why should it matter to him?

[@snaggybeans]

Another awesome video. A woman remembered for "friendzoning" a guy she told time and again that she wasn't interested, instead of being remembered for advocating for public health.

[@PraiseTheFSMonster]

Right?! She probably saved hundreds of thousands of lives and yet her legacy is turning down an incel

[@pansepot1490]

History has always been written by men.

[@medicaoctavia8002]

She was a brilliant woman and deserves to be remembered for her wit and intellect.

[@altheaabrahamsen1975]

But he was such a nice guy /s

[@jiyarahman1698]

@@altheaabrahamsen1975 that doesn’t mean everyone he fancied would like be in a romantic relationship with him

[@steven_gd]

Oh the drama, the betrayal, the unrequited love! If only art history class was this engaging.

[@Genny-Zee]

Is it not 😢 as a would be art history student this is encouraging.

[@e32b61]

@@Genny-Zee Yeah, I don't know what Steve Gomez is on about, but he must have had a bad experience at uni. I've never taken an art history course that wasn't an absolute blast, and I know friends who speak even more highly of the passion of their professors.

[@ramblinrose8]

sorry your art classes weren't this...mine were

[@iamapandacorn1465]

My art history 1 and 2 were exactly like this and it was awesome

[@sonorasgirl]

Mine was! My art history teacher was hilarious and ruthless in her analysis, but super kind and supportive overall

[@George_M_]

As a guy who's been the platonic friend with a crush... Just don't do it man, value your connection. And if you go for it anyway, be as understanding as possible of any reaction they may have. Don't be Pope -_-

Particularly considering she was married (and she married the one she wanted, it wasn't a random forced marriage) and had at least a daughter by the time he decided to pester her to Turkey and back. Context is everything!

[@Marewig]

@ That was definitely a detail I didn't know before and made everything _worse_. FFS, that guy didn't even have the decency to check whether she's currently open to a new relationship!

[@whitedragoness23]

@didn’t the video say after pope died she looked forward to her marriage but got bored of it and left him for another man.

[@Blue468-2]

@@whitedragoness23 yeah but a) They were still happily married when Pope peruses her, b) They ended the marriage peacefully and respectfully and have the decency to let go of each other, which was a VERY different attitude compared to Pope

[@Neuvifurism]

Most women who are friends with men don't usually expect men to like them and are happy when they finally have made friends with a man without having feeling for them or hidden intentions not saying all men have those but in cases where men do develop feelings while being friends with a women usually the women will reject because they never expected or and only wanted a friend

[@nitewarden]

Lol, I saw this painting at the Auckland Art Gallery a couple months ago. I thought it was hilarious. Like rejection is always difficult but there's still something refreshing about a woman being depicted with such an air of confidence to laugh off a confession. Historical paintings always show the women being coy or timid about men pursuing them and it being framed as romantic when hey, maybe she's just not that into you, man.

[@c0ronariu5]

Dammit, how did I miss that? I don’t recall the exhibition being promoted at all. Not like those rigmaroles they have with all the paintings swooshing around a room to psychedelic music.

[@dianayu4453]

@@c0ronariu5 It's always on display, not some kind of special exhibition, you can still go there and see it.

[@bondsons]

And here we are 170 years later still looking at it. lol

[@yoyoyosquiji8716]

I think a part of the painting that really gets me that I didn’t know before this was that Mary was married when Pope confessed to her. She had children and it seems she loved them enough to protect them from disease. I think it makes her laughing at his confession all the more reasonable even if later in life she had lovers. Pope is the incel king over here since he raked her reputation through the mud.

[@Kizzabell]

Like high school boy getting turned down by a girl and then goes and spreads rumour around school that she's a total slut and has herpes or something.

[@zerosysko]

Oh, but you see, he was just concerned about "ethics in poetry writing." /s I will forever remember Pope as "the incel king" now.

[@alexia3552]

Gross of him

[@sianmilne4879]

Kay but DO we feel bad for Pope? I mean, she made it pretty clear. Sounds like the eternal "man who can't take no for an answer" to me haha

[@Godwinpounds4333]

Hello how are you doing?

[@cocogoat1111]

I don't really feel sorry for him. Clearly he can't take a hint even thought she tried to let him down nicely several times before. She didn't indulge his grand romantic gestures or give him any reason to believe she saw him as anything more than a friend.

[@LAWLZ24]

I don’t feel bad for him but at the same time I kinda do… Only cus it must have sucked to have his head so far up his ass that he never figured out why women didn’t like him, culminating in him never getting married and dying lonely. He was prestigious too so he must have been REALLY insufferable for his influence to not be enough to get him a wife.

[@GadereneLegion]

She’s a mean person for saying no to Pope, but she’d have been an awful adulterous slut if she’d said yes. That’s the great paradox women have to live with. We’re terrible if we say yes to a man, terrible if we say no. We’re terrible if we don’t make ourselves physically attractive and terrible if we do. There is literally no winning.

[@smithryansmith]

Lets make fun of the hunchback who loved a woman for her brains not beauty.

[@PraiseTheFSMonster]

Here's a woman that saved countless lives by teaching doctors about inoculations and the main thing that she's remembered for is hurting the feelings of a misogynistic man child who felt he was entitled to her love and ruined her life when she didn't reciprocate it!

[@Ronkyort0dox]

That is not what he is mostly remembered for

[@PraiseTheFSMonster]

@@Ronkyort0dox He's remembered for being a poetic incel

[@MsGbergh]

He would have been considered a normal man at the time.

[@Aster_Risk]

@@MsGbergh Which is the problem.

[@leoniejazz7962]

@hnd9_ Thank you!

[@pebrablue]

“Men are afraid women will laugh at them. Women are afraid men will kill them.” --- Margaret Atwood

[@wheelchairgeek]

Amazing truth. And sad.

[@poulomi__hari]

Yah, and that can happen for laughing at them....

[@tristanhintze7932]

Just don't laugh at them🤷‍♂️

[@dulls8475]

Most women are still alive today. Most men have not killed their wives etc....

[@thejaffacakekid4477]

Women are parodied bigots whose good opinion I should not care about, got it.

[@rachaelappold3287]

I do not feel bad for Pope. He knew that Mary had a husband and chose to confess his love for her anyway? Then got angry that she didn't reciprocate his feelings and slandered her for it? It's giving "entitled whiny incel" who thinks women owe him for being "nice".

[@Ronkyort0dox]

Women these days describe as incel anyone who doesn't worship their choices and is critical of them, but in this case he was an actual incel.

[@thosewhocare2427]

@@Ronkyort0dox that's utter bs consider what that word means. Incel = Involuntarily celibate. That's who incel is for and whom it applies too.

[@l.s.d.5863]

@@Ronkyort0dox Women demand basic respect for their choices, and you conflate that with worship because to you, you'd have to worship a woman to see her autonomy as worthy of respect.

[@adrianmetzler2523]

The type of person who would do “nice things” in order to gain something rather than because it makes them feel nice or is nice and they know they’d like nice things done to them as well. For people like this, gifts often time become “loans”, or a way to get something.

[@adrianmetzler2523]

@@Ronkyort0dox women and or “females” can also “not get laid” or “involuntarily” not get laid. In other words, girls can also be incels. Strange though how I’ve never seen a women “mass shooter” I’m sure one or two exist but when it comes to who statistically causes these types of harms… the “males” take the cake, and often times women are blamed for these “actions” they didn’t take. Shits obviously fucked up and needs to be corrected. It starts by education and teaching away discrimination of sex, sexual orientation, race, and religion/ lack there of. Not saying your comment is about this. But “women wanting to be worshipped”? Obviously some “people” do and some don’t. And that has nothing to do with the sex of a person. Maybe you can argue a society or culture has erroneously taught certain things but that’s exactly my point about teaching away certain discriminations. Categorizing groups like men or women, or especially skin color is the main reason misconceptions about people exist. I used to think, it sucks that women can get laid easier then men, but what I failed to realize is that this goes both ways, some women can’t “get laid” and some men “can when ever they choose”. Idk…

[@JJoy-bk8yr]

Laughter is weird sometimes. I have suddenly started laughing uncontrollably when frightened or concerned - I know that I looked highly amused though that was not the case. This has happened twice when someone suddenly kissed me without warning or consent. Once was with a friend and we continued to be friends and never spoke of it, thank God. The artist called Lady Mary "cruel" but she said she could not control her response. I don't think she intended to hurt Pope - it was some type of reflex.

[@3000BETA]

In moments like that it is crucial to explain that you're not laughing at a person, from this video alone is not clear what really happened between lady Mary and Pope

[@Cora.T]

Laughing can absolutely be a sort of stress response, this is called displacement activity. Your brain is conflicted between two behaviour systems and ends up going with a third behaviour

[@StrangerListening6703]

@@3000BETA But she made it perfectly clear and I took the, ill at ease, laughter as "you've got to be kidding me!" I've had that friend that kept pursuing me even though we were both married and I made it PERFECTLY clear and tried to be nice, that it was never going to happen yet he didn't seem to care. There comes a point that it's just ridiculous. I think the laughter was from exhaustion and I'm sure being that this woman was very good at communicating, that she did indeed explain herself. Nothing she said, obviously, would ever be enough to convey her sincerity in the friendship thus the exhaustion and (in my opinion) fit of laughter.

[@spiritmatter1553]

@@Cora.T Interesting. “Displacement activity,” that makes a lot of sense. 🧠

[@peggedyourdad9560]

Honestly, I’m a lot like this, for the vast majority of my life and still to this day I will laugh for any reason other than being happy or amused. In pain? I laugh. Angry? I laugh. Sad, shocked, nervous/scared? I laugh. It makes things pretty awkward.

[@tilmook]

I understand that Pope always felt like an outsider, and found solace in Mary because she herself was an outsider. But why couldn’t she be her own person? A beautiful woman, even after smallpox, educated and witty STILL chose to be his confidant despite his constant nagging. This story makes me realize that this might be a tale as old as time, but it’s still an issue girls deal with. Pope is a ridiculous manchild. Edit: If your upset because I said that Mary’s rejection story is something girls still deal with, I’m sorry I didn’t include men as well, despite that not being what you should take from my comment above all else. That’s all.

[@ramblinrose8]

ah what it means to be a human, eh?

[@whitedragoness23]

The issue wasn’t if she could be her own woman. It was because she rejected him. Yes he was a man child, he was probably bitter about life and it wasn’t so kind to him. Even thought he was just upset over what he couldn’t have. He probably had more respect in society than she did.

[@Scarshadow666]

I can believe that she would want to be her own person, but unfortunately a woman wanting to be her own person and stay single (either until she finds someone she truly loves or not) would have gotten a lot more push-back and societal ostracization in her time period, compared to modern day standards. Expectations for women throughout history was to marry/make babies, and marrying for love was usually something for the lower classes at the time (for the upper classes/royalty, marriage was usually like a business transaction or politics). Tldr; all of society being a man-child in of itself, during Mary's time period, would most likely be among the biggest obstacles of her establishing herself as her own woman. If it was easy for her, stigmatizations of women becoming "old maids" wouldn't have existed back then.

[@WobblesandBean]

Yup, and equally predictable is all of society deifying a bully and a misogynist while slagging off his victim to the point where they ostracize anyone rightfully pointing out that he was a bit of a jerk.

[@WobblesandBean]

@@whitedragoness23 The fact that he was more respected than her angers me. The woman tried to save them from smallpox, but they chided her for it! Then they bullied the artist of this painting for daring to show Mary in a positive light and not Pope. I'm just so tired of brilliant women being treated like garbage and everyone else fanboying all over men who mistreat such woman.

[@womanonabicycle]

Not only was she married....she married for love. Not surprising he did admire her though, as this 'modern thinking' woman ROCKED. Taught herself Greek and Latin. Learnt about inoculation through her curiosity. Brought her learning to others. Lived her life against the judgement of others. Didn't let that miserable man get her down. Can only admire her.

[@BornRemaining]

The Nice Guy(TM) archetype is timeless. Sexpests can harass (even married) disinterested women and still somehow be seen as victims and the women as antagonists. This concept will probably never go away. This guy wasn't forever single because of his stature, it was be cause of his personality. He sounds like he was a previous incarnation of Russel Greer!

[@AmaraJordanMusic]

My dad’s best man was friends with my mom as well. They were on the same frequency, able to comprehend each other’s trains of thoughts quickly and well matched mentally. When he was having trouble financially, he even lived with them for a while until he was on his feet. Then they sort of drifted apart. Then one day, Mom was visiting her mother’s house, and this guy SHOWS UP. He tells Mom he is love with her, has been, still is, and to run away with him. My mom was shocked. She always thought of him as a splendid friend, and it had been so cool to have someone really get you mentally. But she’d ALWAYS been in love with my dad (no one even ever got a second date other than my dad). She also informed him she’d had a son. What he was proposing was ridiculous in MANY ways. The guy shrugged and basically said, “You can bring the kid if you want, or leave it, either way is fine as long as I get you.” She shut the door in his face and told him not to contact them again. Yet somehow he put the rumor about that she had been leading HIM on and was cruelly toying with him. Such was my mother’s reputation that people responded with raised eyebrows and a, “uh-huh, riiight,” but if everyone in town didn’t know the epic romance that was my parents’ relationship, he could have done her some damage. Why do certain guys think friendship is only a means to an end, one which they’re entitled to? And that if you’re nice to a friend, you’re also being cruel if you don’t secretly plan to “make it worth their while,” eventually? I love friends that can stimulate my brain; it’s what makes me choose someone as a companion because they keep me from being bored and understand my problems and are mental foes I can cordially spar with. But that in no way means I want anything other than MENTAL stimulation. This is annoying for anyone, but ESPECIALLY when the chick is married, move ON, man! Yes, she may rock and be on your wavelength, but have patience and maybe you’ll find someone you can woo honorably!

[@WobblesandBean]

I love this channel. And my heart breaks for Mary, she was objectively smarter than anyone else at that time, but English society being...well, English society, they crapped all over her when she was right all along. They deserved their smallpox epidemic. I'm also pissed the artist _apologized_ for the painting, it's just like modern times where everyone will defend a celebrity no matter how horrid they are towards women. Pope was the OG incel. Imagine bullying a woman for _DECADES,_ just because she rejected you.

[@spiritmatter1553]

Even then the artist proved that it’s no good to issue apologies to the mob. Whatever you do, regardless of who you’ve pissed off, don’t apologize.

[@LAWLZ24]

Tbf, the artist’s apology sounded pretty sarcastic to me. Even the name of his painting is pretty mocking, considering how he writes Lady Montagu’s full name on the title but not doing the same for Alexander Pope. Kinda feels more like he gave a token apology to try to appease people but wasn’t actually all that sorry.

[@l.s.d.5863]

@@spiritmatter1553 What if you're genuinely sorry? lol

[@sirknight4981]

> She was objectively smarter than anyone else at that time Yeah, no. Newton, though very old, would not die until 8 years after she wrote her very famous Turkish letters and I think he is objectively one of the smartest to ever live.

[@sirknight4981]

@@LAWLZ24 I don't think that the artist was trying to be sarcastic at all. I think that he genuinely revered Pope and felt bad about people thinking that he was trying to tarnish his legacy in any way. The "mea culpa"s were probably semi-sarcastic however. The fact that he had to use Lady Montagu's full name but used only Pope's surname does not point to disrespect by the way. There is only one _Pope_ to the English and that is Alexander Pope, the poet. His fame (and peculiar name) allows him to be referred to mononymously, just as Plato or Shakespeare are (how many other famous Popes are there really? there are some actually but most do not compare). He is Pope, the immortal Pope - one of the greatest English poets of all time.

[@kittymervine6115]

She saved many lives by her introduction of a form of vaccination and is even mentioned in many medical books for her great work. Pope wrote some poems and stuff. Nothing wrong with that, but her work saving lives despite ridicule for inoculation (things never change), helped lead to more acceptance of Jenner (who also suffered from ridicule). She was so much more than just the woman that turned down Pope and he had to get back at her.

[@Ninnjette-]

Who in this time period, is ridiculed for inoculation. Explain that to me please. In that time again, putting pus in someone’s veins was seen as barbaric.. They didn’t understand at the time, what benefit that had…

[@projektkobra2247]

Make sure you get you 10th booster, and ignore all those people dying "suddenly" with protein strands of "calamari"-like gunk in their hearts.

[@boyfriendforevvv]

@@Ninnjette- they're talking about the fact that anti vaxxers exist

[@Ninnjette-]

@@boyfriendforevvv Anti-Vaxxers HUNDREDS of years ago, when they didn’t have vaccines lol

[@worstusernameintheworld9871]

@@Ninnjette- bait

[@dogacanizmirden7786]

They usually teach about history of vaccination in anatolia and Mary's approach on small pox, in med and vet faculties, in Turkey. I think it is fascinating that a young woman from England tried to educate her people about medicine in that dark times of history.

[@shakiellaachee7829]

Especially when they deserved every plague at their doorsteps

[@BoringTroublemaker]

This painting is dope af. I’m going to buy a print just so I can be delighted by what a boss this woman was. Saved countless lives, broke societal conventions at every turn, and handled being “niced guyed” in such an epic manner she got a painting of it.

[@natsuyuki8415]

Interesting how the lady is portrayed so fresh and young looking while the gentleman looks rather old and worn out. Yet, Mr. Pope was only a year older than Lady Mary.

[@astrinymris9953]

Well, Pope did have tuberculosis, which would have prematurely aged him. Given this was before the age of antibiotics, he did well to survive to the age of 56.

[@biazacha]

Mental health and habits do age someone; he was insecure, constantly anxious, had petty fights with other figures of the time and was prone to bitterly hold grudges - no surprising that mixed with his health issues made him age way faster than her, that was a vivid personality with a love for travel and acquiring knowledge.

[@hgjh9765]

I don't care what people say Lady Mary Wortley Montague was fabulous 💅🤩💅

[@BT-su1yf]

Not really. She was a piece of shit.

[@adamaria9627]

I adore that it’s all so perfect that she doesn’t need background music to fill the void. My ears thank you.

[@watcherwlc53]

Background music is an abomination that was mostly a trend of 7 or 8 years ago, and is mercifully mostly passed.

[@missnellaful]

Yes, yes,YES! Stop the madness = silence the music and deadly sound!

[@scot60]

She’s allowed to feel how she feels. You can’t force someone to love another person.

[@kiajulian4619]

The term "making love" meant "flirting" all the way up until the 1970s! In 1930s movies you hear women that all the time.. "are you making love to me"? .... And the two of them are standing in the middle of a crowded department store or someplace! It always cracks me up!

[@johnniemcbride2772]

Granted, I was a teen in the 1970s, but "making love" and "flirting" were 2 distinct terms at that time, meaning what they do now.

[@Lux_Lethal]

Your videos are fantastic. I love to learn about art and history, but the manner in which you present your audience with the knowledge while showing your wit and personality makes them so unique. Please keep them coming as you've definitely hit your stride. Happy Holidays and wish you the best in 2023.👏👏👏

[@Art_Deco]

Wow! Thank you so much. Happy Holidays 😊

[@ramblinrose8]

I agree they are fun and provide insight on a personal level. And even art that is commissioned is still personal. Still has a backstory. I think of Rothko and The Seagram Commission...a backstory, right?!! Ahhhh, people always ASSume that art is for snobby people. But what makes art, Art is that it is the exact opposite of snobby...it's life, it's passion, it's creativity, the muses, it's messy and inspirational and it's doom, the human heart and the human condition and the human mind...artists can't always control what others do with it once it leaves the artists' hands, right? Van Gogh died having sold only 21 paintings (not one like the myth) one of which was then used to cover a hole in a barn. BACKSTORY!! Keep 'em coming!! Your insight into the backstory of artists lives and the "lives" of these paintings makes these works alive and gives them lives with a whole vibrant clarity once again. And thanks @L Gill for such a nice comment.

[@PraiseTheFSMonster]

@@Art_Deco I didn't like how sympathetic you were to Pope. He was chasing a married woman who had made it clear for years that she wasn't interested in him in that way, and then he tried to ruin her life because she rejected him. The rumors, the sl*t shaming.... he's a creep and a misogynist that deserves no respect or pity.

[@Lonelylovelywestindian]

She was unbothered, talented woman. I feel bad for Pope though but what did he expected, she was married and made it clear she wasn’t into him like that

[@ryfawx]

Fun fact: Pope's poem 'Eloisa to Abelard' is where the title of the movie 'Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind' is derived.

[@oroontheheels]

It’s kinda interesting choice considering the movie is about toxic relationship.

[@e32b61]

Not surprising if you've watched Being John Malkovich. It seems Kaufman loves the story of Abelard and Heloise.

[@geralyn-mm]

I learn something every day!!!!

[@TheBoungabounga]

it's "Eloisa TO Abelard" I don't know how you can get it wrong

[@user-vm5ud4xw6n]

@@TheBoungabounga I would have gotten it wrong too. Abelarde sounds like tuna. Oops thats abalones and they are mutton shells! Gads!! The things people eat! To each his own! So…there’s how they could have gotten it wrong. Don’t be snooty!!

[@WVgrl59]

"She took one look at him and swiped left", that made me laugh. I love this channel. I watch a lot of documentaries but this lady has what I call a radio voice and is very entertaining. With an excellent voice, she tells an excellent story. ❤️

[@bluedragon4168]

She had a sorta crush until he made the declaration. Then, she hated him because she thought he was making a spectacle of her miserable life. Until then, she assumed a few dozen people were watching her Internet activity and that she could do nothing about it so was fine with it. The abuse on twitter and Instagram didn't help.

[@machazychaz]

her not having scars and his hunchback not being prominent, could also be seen as them not letting those tiny superficial things define them. you can take it further by saying he let the rejection fester in his soul while she responded with humor to his bitter digs (like with the commode) thus her radiant joy contrasted by his gaunt bitterness (he likely spend some sleepless nights stewing over ways to write poems about her)

[@larapalma3744]

Also who's paying lol

[@bannedmann4469]

Tiny?... I beg to differ. So do 90% of women. Height and stature are the utmost importance to women.

[@machazychaz]

@@bannedmann4469 ok

[@pennyroyalT]

@@bannedmann4469 Says who? Women, or men talking about women?

[@alt1f4]

@@pennyroyalT women

[@SwagHyde]

it's unbelievable to me that only started making those kinds videos 6-7 months ago I've been feeling for a few years like I've watched everything interesting on KZbin but then out of nowhere, there's new channels like this I really love your videos I love art but I don't know too much about those old paintings and actually knowing a bit of the background behind them makes them so much more interesting

[@whitedragoness23]

The painting isn’t the same once you know the background. Take a look at the painting then hear the background. And be sure to visit an art museum for the experience!

[@cocogoat1111]

Can't believe this painting never became a popular reaction image... I mean it's so expressive. I love it.

[@randl7423]

Lady Mary Wortley Montague was such an interesting character. I studied her writings from her travels in the Middle East in uni. Love that she a) refused to marry a guy called Clotworthy Skeffington & instead ran off to have an interesting life in the city, and b) didn't care she gave the anti-vaxxers of her day the ick, and protected her kid from smallpox. 👏👏👏 We love to see it. (Also, Alexander Pope was an incel before it was "cool", eff that guy)

[@searipple91]

Absolutely, he got friendzoned so hard (and rightly so she was married and had a child ffs) he could hardly take it, reason why he made such a drastic U turn in his feelings towards the woman. My guy didn't take the L.😂

[@kaloarepo288]

During her stay in Constantinople she observed the Turkish practice of deliberately infecting people with the mild disease of cowpox to make them immune to the far more deadly small pox -the origins of vaccination-from Latin "vacca" meaning 'a cow."

[@ramblinrose8]

writings, eh? thanks for the tip...awesome comment...such interesting people and yes Pope was brilliant and so what!

[@kugelblitzingularity304]

@@searipple91 tho she had no qualms with extramarital affairs. It's just him she's specifically not attracted to lmao.

[@user-vm5ud4xw6n]

Boy do I agree about the Clotworthy Skeffington thing. His folks must have hated him to give him a moniker like that! Can you imagine trying to sing Happy Birthday to someone like that? Just doesn’t have much of a ring to it!

[@HadySmh]

Your voice is just. Perfect. I can hear it for hours and hours

[@Art_Deco]

Haha! Thank you! I appreciate it especially because I see a lot of negative comments about my voice and also a lot asking if it's A.I. generated. It's just me though! LOL

[@MattTee1975]

@@Art_Deco That's so weird - I agree with the original poster. You should narrate everything.

[@hanzulco]

@@Art_Deco please don't change inyo AI. I love your voice

[@VelvetMetrolink]

@@Art_Deco Honestly. Some people are such cockholes. Please ignore them all and sing your song. You have appreciative listeners.

[@eudorablair5073]

I also super appreciate your voice - it’s kind of…sardonic? Wry? Whatever you want to call it, I am here for it.

[@memolano100]

0:53 “Imagine a rejection so bad that it’s still being talked about 100 years later.” Who knew that watching art history would make me feel better about myself… my rejections were nothing.

I don't know what Pope was thinking... she was married and clearly she was doing alright with her husband, so what made him think this was okay and she'd correspond is a mystery to me.

[@camir2747]

He was insane?

[@thecook8964]

Or a narcissist?

[@ダーリンオーモチ]

Incel(?) behaviour.

[@Sasha0927]

Oh man.. I'm going down an art rabbit-hole tonight and was not expecting this kind of shade! Very interesting, painfully relatable.

[@rabokarabekian409]

My favorite Alexander Pope quote - 'Blessed is he who expects nothing, for he shall never be disappointed.'

[@DwAboutItManFr]

Guess he learned the lesson.

[@kragary]

It sounds wise until you realize he probably spat it out with bitterness while concocting the latest smear-campaign rumour against lady Mary in his incel-chamber.

[@biazacha]

I mean after years of letters from his MARRIED friend making clear she was not interested, is less about expectations and more about being a delusional self absorbed prick.

[@diedepraveddeepred]

​@@kragary the quote is from a letter to William Fortescue in 1725 that probably had nothing to do with Lady Mary

[@redreaper2752]

Her name should be more well known. I knew her story but I didn’t recognize her name until she got to that part of the story. Just imagine how many lives she saved and how much longer it would have taken us to figure it out on our own. Turkey could have even forgotten the knowledge themselves during war or famine before someone else noticed what they were doing. It worked with Smallpox but just look how long it took for someone to try something similar with Polio.

[@Phoenix-mh5eo]

Too bad Mary lived back then. I appreciate everything she did in history, but she would've been an absolute boss in today's day and age, and perhaps even more than she did back then. Thank you so much for your video!

[@amber-jv6eu]

My favourite art history channel by far. You always succeed in making my day better🥰

[@realityjunky]

An entire synopsis of a scandal, letters written as frequently as tweets, a major Instagram post, the requisite (but weak) apology that does little to repair the damage...basically Kim and Kanye level tabloid fodder...and flowers were emojis. I love this channel!!!!💖💖

[@idnyftw]

some things just kinda stay the same

[@carlamarlene2927]

Some of these paintings are such exquisite works. The emotions and shadows and detail are just sublime. It's possible to imagine her soft trilling laughter, and smell the desolation in his sweat afterward. He invested his heart to her and she wasn't the one.

[@DonnaNonnaFoFanna]

I love your scripts for these, and the last line is an absolute chef's kiss. Well done

[@glowfishin1]

I'm always happy to see an Art Deco video drop!

[@rimbaud789]

Oh what a coincidence I've had just learn the name Lady Montagu today in our history class and how the smallpox vaccine came to Europe from Ottomans (im Turkish btw and really impressed you didn't skip the details like the tulips, love it🌷) I was just thinking about to look for it and you posted a video on the same day Honestly a telepatic thing or what lol Interesting to see such a drama came up beneath it And also really love your videos they are neatly well prepared✨

[@camir2747]

Basically, civilisation was brought to west from east, and west don't seem to appreciate it, by the look of it, being so intent to destroy it... They provoked war in ukr.& still not keen to stop it! They destroyed so much old civilisation in Syria, Iraq etc and still go on! I'm romanian, btw; i'm sad we can't all live in harmony. Just hate&war from the West!😔😪😔

[@ramblinrose8]

well that's cool!!

[@spiritmatter1553]

@@rimbaud789 The Turks have had a civilized culture and cuisine since forever; they are the most polite and mannerly people I’ve ever encountered in my travels. Plus, it’s an unexpectedly beautiful country. Lady Mary won the lottery when her husband was given a posting there. 🧿

[@rimbaud789]

@@spiritmatter1553oh thank you, youre really kind 💖 And yeah she surely had some great time there when she (Lady Montagu) had been came here i guess

[@sirknight4981]

True, the Occidental world learned a lot from the Orient but it is not correct to say that the West learned of vaccines from the Turkish as the vaccine is not the same thing as inoculation.

[@Chloe-do6wg]

Great, perfect, never before seen! Your videos are just so good and so informative, plus your voice is just so calming!

[@Art_Deco]

Thank you! 😊

[@ismayb754]

17th Century aristoxcratic fathers: "I want nothing whatsoever to do with you for your entire childhood. But also, I want to choose who you marry."

[@sirknight4981]

Lol. Such a brilliant parent.

[@eileenbell8965]

I do love this channel, 8.01 - I do think that her necklace is divine, mind you the dresses it was designed to show off really went so well together

[@kimberlypatton9634]

I can't imagine such a woman of social standing,maturity and sophistication would intentional be cruel to Pope unless she totally ran out of options I imagine it became sort of a feeling like he was overly obsessed ,stalking and just simply would not be reasonable with her being nice about his behaviors.Sometimes it takes a little brute honesty to impress upon someone that she just didn't feel the same way about him that he did.What a loss to us all for it to come to that tragic baseness of feelings and that he couldn't just accept her a a close friend.I do feel compassion for him in a way ,but also for her.

[@MissCaraMint]

@@WhiteStripesStripiestFan No I think they are saying that a woman like Mary wouldn’t have been rude and hurtful like that without justifiable cause. Mary was well brought up and would have had maners drilled into her from an early age. Pope must have been unbelievably obnoxious before she finally snapped.

[@spacebanana5000]

"Out of options"?! She was married!

[@MissCaraMint]

@@spacebanana5000 Yes, and Pope apparently didn’t see this as an obstacle to keep hitting on her. This means that she needed to resort to something els to deter him.

[@spiritmatter1553]

She was a writer, and probably had tried many times to turn him away with carefully measured words in consideration of his feelings. Perhaps he was just too thick to get the message… until he heard her laughing.

[@spiritmatter1553]

@@MissCaraMint As the saying goes, “sometimes you’ve got to be cruel to be kind.”

[@KarlBunker]

What a great painting, great story, great life on the part of Ms Montagu, and great video! Thank you!

[@geralyn-mm]

Another wonderfully entertaining and educational story. Well told. Well executed. And a real pleasure.! Thank you!

[@clearcutter74]

"You can actually pinpoint the second his heart rips in half." -Bart Simpson

[@janeyrevanescence12]

“He wanted to marry but all the women he loved didn’t love him back.” Gee…I wonder why.

[@emmettrichardson5833]

wake up babe, new art deco video dropped

[@Luipaard005]

The OG "but I was nice to her! that means she owes me sex!" guy

[@YOSSARIAN313]

Even napoleon bonaparte was a "nice guy" who struggled with women.

[@troglodytee]

these videos are the best part of my day, thanks for the amazing content!!

[@Art_Deco]

You made my day! Thank you!

[@da96103]

Thé Skeffingtons carried the Haemophilia gene. So when he was born, the priest advised the parents to name him Clotworthy so that he would be worthy of the clotting properties of blood by God.

[@hollyoswald7808]

Amazing backstory.

[@anondecepticon]

And here I was wondering who could possibly hate their kid so much they named him “Clotworthy.”

[@RVS214]

What a fantastic story The icing in the cake is how you punctuated it with perfectly with very well chosen art. That made the story really come alive. Fantastic choices. Some were hilarious and I was laughing and enjoying this thoroughly. How witty! I LOVED it...

[@NessieNice]

So . . . Pope tried to get in between Mary and Edward's marriage then get angry because he failed and the society sided with him? Wheew

[@shirleylangton7967]

You make art history so entertaining. Love it!

[@erinlin7]

I didn't recognize the name until you mentioned Turkey, and then I realized- It's her! The woman who brought variolation to England! Such respect for her.

[@neillgj]

A wonderful video as always. Thank you. In Frith's "My autobiography and reminiscences" that you quote from, he later recounts the story of the silly patron who bought the painting and then reneged on allowing a small copy to be made. It is a good story and the 2 volumes are well worth a read. I saw the painting in auction in London in the early 1970s before it winged its way to New Zealand. The BM still owns the original study of the Pope figure.

[@JayU10]

I've seen this painting before and I couldn't wait for your breakdown. Great work!

[@heronimousbrapson863]

The cartoon at 13:39 is not of the original practice of variolation, but of the English Physician Edward Jenner in the late 18th century giving people doses of cowpox; which was discovered to protect against smallpox and was much safer than variolation. The public was equally suspicious of it though.

[@lc6450]

D@mn... the last two lines in this video made me do a double back and hear it again. Hats off to Mary for being the last standing bad@ss.

[@hanlin3701]

I've been waiting for this. Thanks much!

[@Art_Deco]

Yay! This video took a bit longer for me to make since it was a longer one than I usually do. Thank you for being patient with me!

[@cybersora]

I cannot explain to you how much I love this channel's content! 🔥 Thank you for doing this 😊❤️

[@raymi9436]

This made my day! I love the work you put into these videos! Love your soothing voice Thank you!

[@strawdoll]

I binged your videos a few days ago and this new one is one of the rare times I insta watch new drops :D Love the humor and voice you use, there is so much interest in the way you set up these stories too!

[@429-V8]

.. always a great pleasure to listen to your derivations and descriptions of those paintings! Can't wait for the nerxt one... MERRY Xmas & a great 2023! D/A/G

[@henrymach]

Friendzone: The Painting

[@YOSSARIAN313]

She was married. He was a delusional idiot

[@oneoftheninetynine3953]

As far as her having facial hair or not in the painting, I'm fairly certain they had eyebrow pencil and kohl back then, they also had some kind of paste for filling in blemishes to an extent, combined with tons of face powder. As much as the artist was dragging her story around in the dirt just by depicting this scene in this way, including her smallpox scars would probably be seen as going too far by the audience of that time, also I'll wager smallpox scars were a sore point among many of the aristocracy and the reason they don't often show up in classic portraits.

[@ericrivera8410]

As an artist we are taught to paint women more beautiful and men realistic

[@titandarknight2698]

@@ericrivera8410 I am an artist but I have never experienced this. lol I just draw beautiful men. Do you mean that you were taught this in art school?

[@maurafisher4407]

They also used mouse pelts & glue, so lm told.

[@aditigunjal4231]

Your videos are actually very educative. Much more interesting than my art teacher actually😄

[@PANDA1000RUL3]

Right, like some art teachers don't even know how be art teachers. Like yes teach us to draw but also teach us art history and it's stories but they never do that

[@micheleparker3780]

Excellent, as always and extremely entertaining!! Thank you so much!!!🥰

[@Godwinpounds4333]

Hello how are you doing?

[@GradKat]

Thank you for discussing this beautiful painting, which I first saw as a child. I love Frith’s work, but the subject matter of this piece always fascinated me. I learned about Alexander Pope at school, but I knew little about Lady Mary; I didn’t know, for example, that she had been disfigured by smallpox. I think she probably found Pope’s obsessive affection a bore, but at the same time I have pity for a man whose own disfigurement must have made him very unattractive to women.

[@ruthamyallan1]

I enjoyed this! I would just like to point out though that that amazing satirical cartoon you showed was referring to the habit of those who innocculated themselves with cowpox, a much milder condition than smallpox, but which protected the recipient from the greater evil. (It had been noted that milkmaids didn't catch smallpox).

[@scoutlaceharding]

I think it's interesting that the artist decided to depict Lady Mary as radiant and cruel. I think any woman who has been relentlessly pursued by a man and has done her utmost to let him down lightly can relate to her. I think it far more likely that the laugh would be one of exasperation and incredulity. Her patience finally worn thin with this man she genuinely liked as a dear friend who would not stop pestering her for more, as if he believed he could eventually find the right words that would turn around her opinion and talk her into his bed. How, exactly, is a woman supposed to respond if a man refuses to be dissuaded by kind refusals? Also, is anyone else reminded of the scene in Pride and Prejudice where Elizabeth rejects Mr. Collins?

[@BeardedBarley1]

Totally. That’s exactly what I thought of also with that scene in Pride and Prejudice between Elizabeth and her cousin (ew). However, there were several differences, like that she was not friends with him and had never admired him but had in fact despised him and thought him ridiculous. I have been in the place of the woman in the painting several times while single and married. I have no idea what kind of vibes I’m putting out there but have hated losing wonderful friends over it. Somehow I need to figure it out at the ripe age of 57 and having only been with my husband ever because he’s the only one I have ever felt easy to be close to in that way. It’s just too personal and revealing. And when one has self esteem issues, the thought of intimacy with another who has not been a lifetime mate can be nightmarish. So yeah...I can totally relate. But here’s the thing: I just don’t think her laughter was in derision. I think maybe she felt nervous and awkward and giggled as a kind of reflex, not to hurt his feelings or to tell him in a mean way to back off or anything. I think she didn’t want to lose her close friend and hoped he had been joking or that she misunderstood so that she didn’t have to let him down in that way because she had become invested in his feelings as his friend that she deeply admired. I know because I’ve done that before, and, yes, it ended badly; but then it turned around several years later. I have no idea if that is what actually took place between her and her friend. But that’s what makes sense to me from my limited background.

[@chillaxboi2109]

@@BeardedBarley1 I don't know, I feel like it's great you lost these friends, madam. It's a testament of your inner and/or outer beauty that makes certain people around you passionate about yourself. It's great and all but it's damaging for both parties. Pope wouldn't have been so hurt or led an unmarried life if he let go and Mary would have had no smear campaign against her, especially from a former really close friend. I think it's healthy for both parties to sever the connection if something doesn't work, obviously in a good way, than to have this happen

[@TheHollowKid]

I love it so much. One of my fav channel.

[@Art_Deco]

Thank you!

[@TheHollowKid]

@@Art_Deco nah, thank YOU!

[@sophiaisabelle027]

We appreciate your hard work and effort. Happy Holidays.

[@Art_Deco]

That means so much! Happy Holidays!

[@madameguillotine3216]

Mary obviously was not interested. Why is this always put on her as a fault. She's a wife and mother, happy with this. What in everything holy made pope think she would have wanted to change? She had never recouped any advanced in letter's. She was always clear with her "I'm not interested. I'm with husband"

[@TheUberSchattenjager]

Easily the most excellent channel on KZbin! Thank you for these fun, enlightening, and well-presented masterpieces.

[@youre_totally_right_but_]

my guy simped for a married woman. should’ve seen the L comin from a mile away

[@juliagoolia5604]

Love love love your edits of the video! Cracks me up especially where he tried to poke his head thru the corner of the screen. So funny and amazingly talented to make this entertaining! Thank you for this to help to teach ME and my daughter interesting history obscure facts! Love all your videos!

[@HelgaCavoli]

I'm loving this. Thank you for the videos.

[@dingdongpoopoo7605]

I just found this channel and it is giving me life. Thank you for all your work putting these amazing videos together.

[@alicewilloughby4318]

2:52 - Poor guy. 😞 5:42 - So the concept of inoculation started in Turkey! I'm impressed! 11:45 - Okay, now he's starting to sound like and A-Hole.

[@PaganSkye]

I’m amazed that they had inoculations at this time in history

[@patronsaintofpoison]

I thought it was wild that the poppy flower meant "I am not free" when morphine and heroin are derived from poppy and they cause physical and psychological dependency. I love the paintings from around this time, they are gorgeous. You have to consider the fact they are all we have to represent what these legendary personalities looked like.

[@carl-Sp]

Enjoying your channel. I’ve watched a number of channels grow over the years. They jump in popularity when they reveal themselves. Be brave.

[@adrianmetzler2523]

Credit to the Turks for discovering and utilizing such a vital discovery. And for her to introduce this to the so called “western culture” also deserves credit and or memorializing more than her “rejecting a stalker” lol.

[@christinasimms2583]

Its a blessing i came across this channel. The videos are fantastic!!

[@Amaranthyne]

This is not really love, but a case of being in love with love. An obsession that takes no care for the object of its ostensible worship.

[@chasanthony8760]

Thoroughly entertaining, insightful and witty. Bravo once again.

[@emilybarclay8831]

You think Clotworthy Skeffington is a funny name? Imagine being called Cloudesley Shovell, the 4th Admiral of the Fleet of the U.K., or one of his successors, Chaloner Ogle. Or how about Field Marshal Studholme Hodgson? Look at any list of high ranking British navy and army officials and you’ll see the stupidest names imaginable cause rich people be wildin’

[@c.w.8200]

I don't know, Studholme Hodgson isn't that bad though...

[@tarabooartarmy3654]

I guess the trend of rich people giving their kids weird and stupid names isn’t such a new thing after all. 😂

[@kenkarsonn]

I recently started pursuing visual art as a hobby, and this video popped up in my feed. Consider me a brand new fan of this channel!

[@mila6589]

Well, somethings never change... a man that can't take rejection, and lies about her reputation??? Ohhh where have I seen this before?

[@jungefrau]

There is a wonderful book called The Speckled Monster about lady mary and cotton mather working on 2 different continents to bring inoculation against smallpox to the wider world. When Lady Mary was in turkey, she attended female bathhouses and noticed that no turkish woman had the ubiquitous smallpox scars you saw everywhere in england. They explained inoculation to her and she made it her life's work to bring the practice to europe.

[@theakramson3585]

Your voice with your presentation are perfect thank you for the effort you put on your videos to make them as good as this 👍👍

[@Noir0107]

Oh god the cringe of this . Haha this made my day. Simping back in the day was way more embarassing. I do understand his infatuation , however , there were hints he should have quit.

[@twentyeight602]

Hints? She was married

[@Noir0107]

@@twentyeight602 hints she didnt want to be with him or be her lover. Marriage doesnt matter if you want to cheat

[@Marewig]

@@WhiteStripesStripiestFan It was probably common among the fashionable set to have both spouses be cheating in an arranged marriage once the heir had been popped out (and usually, also the spare). Also, even as some marriages cool, in Britain, it took _an act of parliament_ to divorce until it was codified into law as a real option for most people in the mid-19th century. So, sometimes de facto separated while still legally married is also common. On the other hand, I really want to know what Pope was high on, considering that Mary wanted to marry her husband enough to go against her father's wishes and elope with him. Does that sound like a woman who doesn't _want_ to be with her husband??

[@Marewig]

@@WhiteStripesStripiestFan You're welcome! I collect weird factoids like squirrels hoard nuts. I'm just happy I could help shed some light about the era.