Artificial Non-Intelligence: On ChatGPT and Nerdism | with Hans-Georg Moeller & Seán McFadden

[@JohannesNiederhauser]

For some reason KZbin keeps deleting the views on this video. It already had more than 5000. In the backend it’s now at 2.4K But here publicly still constantly kept at below 2K. Quite telling!

[@RomanDobs]

Your channel is a gift to me a long time admirer of Heidegger’s insights on the essence of technology and technologist. Once one begins to comport oneself to his language the world discloses itself on an extraordinary way. Thanks for your clear presentations.

[@Jacob011]

I can well imagine it's a nutty algorithm, but I'm definitely not putting manipulation past youtube.

[@deepnoetics]

Thank you Johannes for our great conversation. Very engaging as our last discussion with H.G. Moeller!

[@dorothydeyev9240]

❤awesome discussion

[@EcstaticTemporality]

Enjoyed this chat... thank you all for sharing.

[@hristo_kostov.darthmrr]

A fellow Heidegerrian... 😍

[@clumsydad7158]

'artificial non-intelligence' ... that could be a whole critique of 'modernity'; the use of ultra information/knowledge/technology for objectives that are inherently not thought through.

[@Jacob011]

As someone with a degree in cybernetics, I share the sense w/ Johannes that we might be before the next AI winter. Interestingly, when I read Chemero's Phenomenology: An Introduction, I came across the term "Heideggerian AI". An article there was cited by Hubert Dreyfus titled "Why Heideggerian AI failed and why fixing it would require making it more Heideggerian".

[@clumsydad7158]

has there been an AI winter and what would that entail? with the lack of political coherence in the world, it's hard to see how we don't let things run amok and then pick up the pieces afterwards. the only major catastrophe humans have successfully (thus far) avoided is nuclear war, and only because of the obvious destructive capacity. i see little chance we are able to prevent tech/big-brother/ai further infesting itself in our lives until a large scale tragedy occurs.

[@Jacob011]

The AI winter refers to, of I remember correctly, to the occasion when Minski showed that neutral nets can't learn simple logical function, such as XOR. Since AI at the time was coming out of production/expert systems, which were logic-based, logic was a big deal. That discovery deflated the excitement about neutral nets, hence AI winter. This was ended by Hinton's research, which essentially flowered into the deep learning revolution we're in now. The question of how humans use AI is different from what the AI actually is (how close to human).

[@clumsydad7158]

@@Jacob011 Right, good stuff, ty. Never had heard of Hinton.

[@DawsonSWilliams]

I joined at the last three minutes , or so-I was still able to witness a superb exchange between the three of you.

[@JohnPopcorn06]

what a crossover!

[@johngoras73]

Artist speaking here, so what I've wondered is can an AI feel bored/uninspired, which presupposes it can feel excited/inspired to begin with.

[@JohannesNiederhauser]

Of course not. Why would you even anthropomorphise an algorithm like that

[@leonkis2255]

Only in certain kinds of fiction! The "melancholy of the machine" and so forth. Your question is obliquely explored in 2001: A Space Odyssey, the HAL section, so I refer you to that.

[@BertWald-wp9pz]

Sad that Hubert Dreyfus is no longer with us but pleased great thinkers are still pushing back against categorical mistakes. So far so called AI concentrates on imitating human like outputs and often evokes a false empathy between humans and AI. Correct ‘Chat’ is reproduces jargon. Our consciousness definitely involves emotion and awareness of being within time. If AI had this it probably would become neurotic which is not necessarily why AI is being developed. I follow Carefree Wandering and it is great to see this meeting of great minds. At the risk of digressing, I also think jobs are being broken down into programmes and in this way we are removing certain human aspects from work so man imitates machine and machine imitates man. Yes this always happened but I feel behaviour itself is being more constrained by set scripts which is similar to what we see with Chat GPT output. Thanks.

[@Jacob011]

This is pretty scary, considering how the Machine hyper-agent seekimg self-preservation and propagation fits into McGilchrist's left-hemispheric he on the world.

[@leonkis2255]

Agree wholeheartedly, thank you.

[@jenovaproject5895]

Johannes, an article titled Unmasking "AI" by the Philos-Sophia Initiative might be of interest to you.

[@saintsscholars8231]

Excellent discussion My key take away, am I lower than a calculator? Certainly not!

[@andreas6719]

Great talk! The demonstration of difference in language and information was fantastic. Several music treatises from the end of the 18th century gives more thorough and systematic knowledge than you can find from our time, but includes a chapter or the like on how all this knowledge will be useless without expression in playing. And the chapter is short - no information can convey this expression, it only comes with being human. In todays classical music, that expression must to a large degree be checked by reason, that understands the task as best at is can and formulates it's algorithms. One wants to be rationalistic, professional, and importantly to produce the same result every time, on command. This the expression will never do. Love is the child of cunning and poverty, and if this human poverty can distinguish us from the Gods, how separate must we then be from the machine.

[@keegster7167]

15:02 what is this word you mention from Heidegger? I can't make it out. I know it's German but it'd be useful to know. I was hoping to search out the context

[@deepnoetics]

It's "Gerede" as in idle-talk.

[@keegster7167]

@@deepnoetics ahh thanks!!

[@HuguesBalzac]

Evolution by natural selection is not a "completely random" process and that is a general misunderstanding of mutation.

[@dionysianapollomarx]

Great chat overall. A little heavy-handed on the criticism of analytic philosophers from Sean and Hans. They're not all logicians nowadays, nor do all of them think of AI as at all intelligent. Some who are radical empiricists think AI will reach true AI using standard techniques in ML and big data. (Not everyone is David Chalmers, oblivious to the rare earth metals needed to sustain the Metaverse VR fantasy.) Others think that there's either no real content or substance in the text produced by AI and any further use of ML and big data is a waste of money. Some abide by extended, embodied (4E) cognition, and others think while cognition can be embodied, it cannot be replicated by AI the same way they can with movements. Hence, some appeal to past considerations on the mind, some appeal to or draw from figures like Heidegger (Dreyfus), some to Descartes and Humboldt (Chomsky, Fodor), others to Nietzsche (Williams, Queloz), others Foucault (Nguyen, Novaes, etc.).

[@Jacoboss08]

Stating that the difference between artificial and human intelligence is "ontological" is not sufficient

[@themerpheus]

Act of differentiation between us and the machine by constructing an ontological fallacy around an epistemological issue, the definition of living, doesn't make sense. On it's own, the definition of livelihood is a half-baked term and still being debated for things like viruses. This doesn't mean that the chatgpt is alive/consciouss or anything, yet redeeming such classifications would ultimately fall short when they are. Thus, a different definition of "alive" needs to be constructed. I am rather inclined to agree with the arguments that Sean described regarding to consciousness and evolution.

[@thesame6258]

There is an algorithmic form of thinking right? Otherwise we couldn't do programming and mathematics. Computers don't do algorithmic thinking, they just "run" algorithms. Yeah it's an interesting idea that we need to inventio a new vocabulary for the functionalities of technology.

[@hasbulelias]

A link to a recent interview with Ilya kzbin.info/www/bejne/j5eUoGOKht-lr5o. AGI will give us meaning, enlightenment, happiness..."Only an AGI can save us now".

[@JohannesNiederhauser]

Mental illness intensifies

[@adrianlawrence5208]

H(I) A(B) L(M)

[@benediktzoennchen]

Great, just great. ML is successful precisely because computer scientists stopped trying to build intelligent systems, just like engineers stopped trying to build a bird. "Learning" is done by the gradient descent method, and we know that the brain does nothing like that.

[@wehsee912]

🌚☄️❤️💫

[@rvnsglcr7861]

I would add that it might be fruitful to take on an old statement made by Sam Harris concerning a dismissal of substrate (carbon vs. silicon) as a factor, both with regard to computing operations as well as ontology.

[@markbrowne181]

Sam Harris is a dunderhead

[@nitahill6951]

It just occurred to me that all AI can mine is the past. Not create into the future. So will all thinking be retro futuristic? So banal...

[@kaustix852]

Chatgpt will produce huge amount of text,...that no one will ever read. Haha.