QUEENS VS TERRAN?? - Jaedong vs SpeeD

Jaedong (Z) vs SpeeD (T) on Tempest.
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[@monsieurpanda4451]

This is some karmic experience to see a Zerg player harass by aerial units all the game by a terran.

[@abstractdaddy1384]

Ha, I've thought that exact thing before.

[@assault410]

i was just thinking this LMAO

[@skykur]

Cathartic to see, gave me chills

[@MikeLhawdsYouTubeAccountHandle]

Lol every terran's feeling when watching games like this 😅

[@blacklight4720]

So satisfying. My favorite game still would be that of Bish0p. He had some crazy wraith micro in that match.

[@frankhubbard5642]

I'm old and not at all capable of playing the game, but I'm a huge fan of the game and especially love watching it through the lens of Artosis. Outstanding content, sir. Thank you

[@stambe8605]

You can still play the game if you are old, just play Protoss. Ive played mostly Terran and some Zerg back when i had more free time and was younger, but if i decide to go back and play semi seriously i might give Protoss a shot. Its a good race for old people with slower hands and arthritis. You can still enjoy the game without going 250+ APM and play more strategic and sneaky.

[@khav99]

@@stambe8605 You got it brother I still play terran on SC2 but SC I switched to protoss fun race to play

[@alvarorubenvera5915]

How old are you my man?

[@benjamincarmona3703]

It is always a treat to watch some good fucking wraith micro

[@FlymanMS]

One thing more underrated than Ensnare is good wraith micro, and it’s a beautiful thing thing as we’ve seen here.

[@blacklight4720]

Have you seen Artosis commentating on the Bish0p match? damn, it was so sexy.

[@FlymanMS]

@@blacklight4720 I saw it and I loved it, Bish0p was dominating his opponents

[@somekindoflandcow]

This was a super fun game showing off both sides of the 'why don't we see X more often?' question. This could have been an entirely different match if even one or two things had happened differently.

[@mattthemaddogdollar]

He built his first spore colony 12 minutes into the game.

[@novitrix9671]

Crazy how not greeting and making 2 aa each base saves so much time, resources and pressure.

[@TheFloydsta]

just losing 3 drones is basically a spore colony lol @@novitrix9671

[@Gamerextra1029]

Zerg getting dismantled like that by Wraiths is poetic justice.

[@plzrelax]

Would love to see Zerg Christmas someday in a pro game (plague + ensnare)

[@michaelbird9148]

Beautiful opener and micro. Those first two engagements were so efficient for crippling JD, and then the micro from there was just so excellent.

[@meguemil8542]

Randomly came across your channel. I'm loving it! Great commentary, you give a lot of insight and your knowledge of the game shows

[@keagancollins3243]

If you’re a brood war fan check out his ASL casts, tons of fun to watch

[@user-tl6us3tc5g]

I love starcraft

[@captain-go4jz]

Me too and I hate artosis

[@codymoreland4496]

I love starcraft more

[@Deadly467]

wraith micro was a thing of beauty

[@Girthbrooks715]

I’ve been watching for a little over a year now and I don’t think I’ve seen a match where wraiths actually win the whole game. Love seeing a good off meta build dominate

[@kayDawgTV]

The one who controls the overlords, controls the game. It's like a terran version of bisu.

[@NealX_Gaming]

I don't know why Jaedong decided to make landing the Ensnare harder than it needed to be. Just let the Wraiths walk into Overlord detection and click on one rather than targeting an area.

[@stambe8605]

This exactly. Unless you've been practicing alot vs cloaked Wraiths with Queens, its better to go for a homing shot when the Wraiths are detected by Overlord/Spore than to go hail marry with a skill shot which requires alot of prediction and is detrimental for the outcome of the game.

[@basimaziz]

I love, love, LOVE watching Wraiths work! YES! WOOOOOOOO!!! Excellent play from Terran!

[@michaelfrancoisgermishuizen]

That was massive damage

[@FelipeMedina-yz5pw]

Am I the only one screaming "GET SPORES!"?

[@janpaulbusch1437]

Hey Artosis, every day your Videos are helping me get through relaxing on my armchair whilst eating chocolate! Thanks!

[@taz31999]

A Queen involved in a match against a Terran player and still no infested Command Center. One day I will see it happen... one day.

Gg, great cast as always!

[@tjsanderscu]

Genuine question … why didn’t Jaedong make 2-3 spore colonies WAY earlier?

[@Dodovacer]

Typical "professional corner-cutting" - total rubbish decision.

[@paulkruger7934]

Fair question. I guess even with 1 spore at each mineral line the the wraiths would still be able to harass a lot (imagine just 1 stronger turret in a mineral line vs mutas) and at the same time it would slow down his build a lot and make it less likely to ever catch up. That being said, there was definitely something off with Jaedong's build, probably burrow should have to be ready a bit quicker if that's his first line of defense, it didn't do anything this game. But important to remember that these wraith builds often have a bit of a domino effect and look really insanely good when everything works out perfectly from the get-go, and can be completely hopeless if even one thing goes wrong.

[@novitrix9671]

Greed, will to skillflex, deathstar arrogance syndrome. To name a few potential reasons.

[@Fanelan053]

It's cool seeing different techniques

[@brownbrewsommelier]

He misses is a bit of an understatement. I think I got a splash of that ensnare through my screen

[@GASHPAN]

Interesting strat. Well executed. GG!

[@samuelkim5981]

I do not know why JD chose not to put up spores in the natural and main early on. It would have helped immensely with the detection issue. I do not know how much he has practiced ensnare vs wraiths so it seems he just wanted to try it.

[@MythrilZenith]

All these pro gamers calling themselves Hero, we need some pro gamers using the name Villain.

[@petercrocco5461]

Love the last stim at the end of the match.

[@donyodonev1493]

Impresive! Someone to win against JD in this way! Really nice strategy and play!

[@mexorcist2575]

2 port so fun to watch. Are you going to be casting any of the ASL qualifier games on here? Would like to see some.

[@patrickburden8257]

What a treat!

[@n1te]

When you see mass wraiths, always get burrow. Saves the drones or at least makes them spend scans.

[@Repetoire]

what a game! it all came down to that ensnare! wow!

[@non_da]

I kinda wish the Ensnare upgrade, among a few other caster upgrades was slightly cheaper in gas and maybe slightly faster to research, nothing too drastic. But Ghost, Dark Archon and Queen getting slight buffs would be pretty exciting. I think as for Ghost you would need to do something more than just upgrade their spell research though. They could use some extra damage so they aren't entirely useless outside of their spells.

[@paulkruger7934]

Think this is as close as it gets to a flawless game

[@taylorjensen2787]

I ALWAYS forget that ensnare makes the units attack slower too. OP

[@abstractdaddy1384]

It's a negligible difference for most units. It really gets stimmed marines though. It literally negates the stim effect.

[@AlexanderEddy]

That was a unicorn game

[@stevie_mac]

Coolest game I've seen in a while

[@user-il5td4uh2d]

I usually root for the Terran but I felt sympathy for Jaedong with SpeeD's Wraith micro and use of cloak while continuing to expand. If this had been the first StarCraft game I had ever seen, I would have thought Wraiths were one of the top units the way he kept them alive made them seem invincible.

[@MrDarthDread]

I want to see you narrate someones everyday life

[@nightmareTomek]

2:37 So many possibilities! xD wish that was also in SC2, but there are always the same builds despite being more units available...

[@USALibertarian]

After only 25 years we finally know how wraiths are supposed to be used.

[@sleeper1855]

And this is why no one goes for ensnare

[@freehatespeech6804]

My valkyries have gotten ensnared by S rank Koreans. One time I won the game, one time I lost, but both times it had a good effect against the valkyries. Ensnare has its uses.

[@plethoranz]

Artosis, is there any chance you could make a series of the ASL qualifiers? Maybe with some player backgrounds, and focussing on some interesting player stories/paths? I'd love to learn about newer players, and as a watcher/fan for over 10+ years of your stuff I think it would resonate well with us.

[@wraith_wr]

Good decisions by both sides, but only one prevails. :D

[@exist0142]

If I'm not mistaken, the unburrowing-when-attacked thing only applies to computer-controlled units, not player-controlled ones. It was likely implemented to make the AI not just sit there with burrowed units while the player kills them. I don't believe this applies to multiplayer, but I'm not 100%.

[@Pleiades27]

Man i love seeing double starport/-gate wraith/corsair, even more so when it works out beautifully. Anything to make Zerg suffer!

[@ConstantineIII]

Damn! Wish that would have gobe differently. Gg!

[@ilvivente]

Great game

[@csucskos]

I feel like ensnare should be used more often against bio. It's only the cost of 2 mutas. Obviously not a queen rush, I think it's better to have a full group and harass the terran at early game, but as a few off, when the bio is bigger and you are trying to pick off from the groups with 11 mutalisks. Maybe parasite the vessels, since drops are super deadly... I dunno, queens are so underutilized. (I never understood why mass queens are the best counter to mech, since so many times I've seen a couple emps demolish the queen cloud and then the zerg gets ovverun, but maybe it's as some zerg player said - can't remember if soma, Jaedong or Queen or someone else - that the biggest problem with zerg is that if you mistime something you lose pathetically and you look like a fool for even trying.)

[@Pico141]

EMP is not a consistent counter to queens blowing up your siege tanks, especially if zerg sees beforehand that you have a vessel with your mech. Just watch ASL games where mech was used and countered with queens (you won't find many recent ones because that's how hard queens counter mech, almost nobody plays it against zerg anymore)

[@tohothewriter8002]

Queen builds is similar to DA rush builds, they cripple the early game economy for a two base all-in. There's a lot of risks involved that will leave you basically dead in the water if the rush doesn't do deadly amounts of damage.

[@Pico141]

Zerg is very tight on resources in ZvT and making queens just to use parasite is rather useless, when for the same amount of gas you can get a defiler giving you a cloud of invulnerability. I was always wondering whether ensnare + lurkers could be used to catch and destroy bio in midgame, but if it hasn't happened in 25 years, I guess it's too hard to pull off

[@eulogp9888]

a good Queen micro can evade EMP, like a good Wraith micro can evade ensnare. But I agree ensnare would be much much better on MnM balls.

[@EebstertheGreat]

Jaedong experimented with ensnare against bio back in 08-09. It was OK. The thing about ensnare is that it takes just as much micro as any other spell, but it's not quite as good. Most spells do at least something every time you cast them, but ensnare does nothing unless you can force an engagement right as you cast it. So you spend a little money and a lot of attention on something that is likely to completely whiff if you screw up. And when you orchestrate everything perfectly, well frankly, you probably don't need ensnare to win anyway. Also, you say "only 2 mutas" like it's nothing, but it's not at all obvious to me whether I would rather have 2 mutas now or one queen with one ensnare in a little bit. 2 Mutas is pretty significant.

[@shanebarnes4622]

Crazy good game!

[@danielmoyle5503]

Dude a damn spore. Its better than losing 10 drones.

[@mayalabo3906]

satisfying~

[@513pollo]

Frustrating when Protoss and Zerg players tap out early. Is it me or do Terran players stick around longer when things get bad for them?

[@FlymanMS]

Terrans are so used to beating that they endure to the end

[@stambe8605]

We are used to getting harassed and abused till no end since the beginning of this game. You cant give up easily as Terran if you want to get better or grind out games. Also Terrans have the best comeback potential of all races IMHO. But in this game Jaedong GGed on time so to speak, as the Vessel cloud was starting to whittle him down and he had half of the supply of the Terran while on equal bases with much less economy due to the Wraith harassment.

[@luciansevastru7087]

JD was so dead at that point; he didn't want to stick around and get rolled over, so he chose to spare himself the humiliation. At this level, there's almost no mistake Speed could have made to lose him the game.

[@Rockboygg]

Not a terran player. But it feels refreshing, cathartic even, so see the TERRAN harassing the Zerg! I was like "now you know how it fells like!" Im susrprosed that no terran has done this before until now.

[@baptiste2863]

Back to my parents place for a bit country side, good meal, a glass wine, a fire, a bit cold for south of France. Then under a heavy load of blanket watching people trying to make ensnare work all comfy on my little phone, thank you 😄

[@ComradKirich]

Briliant

[@Rethaxian]

I fucking love wraith games. Underutilized in my opinion.

[@lavkian]

Hi Artosis! Is there a chance Shield Battery will catch on more with modern Brood War players? If not, is there a specific reason why? Thanks for continuing to upload these, it's awesome watching them!

[@sommigame]

If you haven't watched it yet, bisu uses shield battery against soma quite effectively, and he talks about them quite a bit there. It's on this channel, has shield battery in the thumbnail

[@FlymanMS]

Battery is nearly useless after early game

[@Caeldori]

Amazing micro

[@ShadowMKII]

Honestly, I would seriously entertain calling myself "Villain" if I were a "pro gamer".

[@karpai5427]

Again. Defiler's Plague is instant, Queen's Ensnare is a projectile.

[@novitrix9671]

Defiler balance has yet to be detected...

[@tohothewriter8002]

Plague and the Devourer's attack also reveal cloaked Wraiths by the way, not just Ensnare. A good strategy by JD, but it wasn't quite fast enough to be in time for the SK Terran death push of his natural... which didn't need to do a whole lot to be effective. Amazing game by both players regardless!

[@EebstertheGreat]

Yeah, not just the three goops, but all spells that cling to units and have visible effects reveal those units. Specifically, Defensive Matrix, Irradiate, Lockdown, Maelstrom, and Stasis Field do the same. (Parasite effectively does too, but only for the player who cast the parasite.) Optical Flare doesn't reveal the target, I guess because it has no outwardly visible effect.

[@stambe8605]

Maelstrom doesnt reveal burrowed units and does not affect mechanical units, so in practice it doesnt "stick"to the unit like the other spells. Unless you make invisible zerg units via bugs there isnt a zerg unit that is invisible in a sense like the DTs or Observers, so it has no revealing effect. Statis Field reveals the unit, but also makes it invulnerable making it not so effective for that purpose (you have to bring detector and wait for the thawing). Parasite i think also reveals units for the allies of the player who cast it.

[@EebstertheGreat]

​@@stambe8605 None of those AoE spells hit burrowed units at all. The ones that don't disable units do stick to them through burrow, though. (If you mind control an enemy zergling and put it under an arbiter, it will be cloaked. Then if it gets ensnared, the cloaking field won't work. If you burrow it, it will be invisible, but then if you unburrow it, the ensnare will continue to reveal it under the arbiter.) Anyway, Maelstrom doesn't only work on zerg units. In particular, it works on ghosts and Dark Templar. It's true that parasite will reveal a unit for anyone you share vision with, because they can always seen every cloaked unit you detect. But enemies won't see it (for instance, in a FFA or 2v2v2).

[@stambe8605]

@@EebstertheGreat Only Stasis and Maelstrom are AoE spells from the mentioned above. And both are not effective at revealing cloaked units. The post specified other abilities that reveal invi units on top of the 3 "gooey" spells zerg has.

[@EebstertheGreat]

@@stambe8605 Stasis and Maelstrom do reveal cloaked units. No spells reveal burrowed units except parasite, not even defense matrix or irradiate. And I didn't mean to list practical counters. How do you practically reveal an enemy unit with defense matrix? It's just a complete list.

[@madafaka3587]

I swear to god, why pros hate spores so much!?

[@MtDuckford]

Artosis, do you have a game where you play like Speed? With Wraiths? That strategy seemed completely overpowered in the hands of Speed.

[@Biggestfoo]

Where can you find the gamers8 interview with Jaedong?

[@quikdeath100]

I don’t understand why Zerg tries to go Queen before building one spore colony in the main and another in the natural. Just seems like an easier way to combat Wraith openers

[@Ziegfried82]

Spores are super expensive to make, so most pro zergs avoid building them especially early game because it cripples their econ. If Jae knew for a fact that it was 2 port wraith (if he had slipped that drone in) he probably would have made at least one spore for sure.

[@paulkruger7934]

Arty you said ASL qualifiers are coming up... I think back in KSL days you and Tasteless actually casted the qualifiers. I assume that's not possible for ASL?! I'd love to see as many games as possible including the brackets, sometimes it's frustrating to see someone not qualify for ASL and have no idea whether they even tried or wtf happened, whether it's up and comers or more senior players.

[@cyberneticdex69]

❤❤❤

[@MattBrain9336]

Why didn't Jaedong build spore colonies the moment the first Wraiths flew in?

[@Lappmogel]

He didn't have an evo chamber

[@CS__2314]

Why didn't Jaedong build 2 spore colonies at each base and go into hydra/lurker? Instead he loses 15+ drones and a group of mutas to the wraiths.

[@Andrei3111]

because zerg sucks anyway

[@staarfajter922]

Static defence is usually a bad investment. In hindsight yes, he maybe should have made atleast one in each base. Hindsight is 20/20.

[@Ziegfried82]

If he had slipped in that drone and saw for sure that it was 2 port wraith...I bet he would have. But you can't just make spores not knowing if the terran is going air, it cripples your econ.

[@junioraltamontent.7582]

There's a player named Eonzerg I love to watch bc he has a habit of making spare creep colonies to convert when needed. It's not nearly the investment of a sunk or spore but odds of one of the two being helpful at some point are high.

[@alanchen6625]

It should of been gg when he killed all drones

[@alanchen6625]

What did I win 😊?

[@ThunderChickenBucket]

nice

[@j.mbarlow5952]

Why not transition into Valkyrie if your Wraiths are still alive?

[@nestitortheshowman]

I don’t understand why terrans always use a bunch of turrets and zergs do not. Jaedong could stop that wraith harrass with just a couple of spores on each base.

[@ZoeCalico]

I'm no expert but i believe it's because it costs zerg larva that they absolutely cannot spare

[@TheAeolas]

Overlords should have the option to land

[@novitrix9671]

Balance cannot be detected...

[@Okiwano]

Even if he could have won, would you want to put in that effort? Next game, it's just ladder, right?

[@SharpwithanE]

For the algo

[@anthonyc719]

Lost 40 games to Speed on ladder lol… it would be a privilege! That was some gosu shit

[@jemm.8277]

Why not make more spores?

[@UCfjZmDYoZY3laj2mfiinm7gc]

5:17 Except Lurkers

[@UCfjZmDYoZY3laj2mfiinm7gc]

Not able to kill that egg 10:20

[@EebstertheGreat]

And irradiated units! Nice thought by the devs so you can use burrow to shield nearby units from irradiate as intended.

[@anonvideo738]

I think it has to do with how units with no attack react. For example if a melee unit gets shot by an air unit they will just run around a bit. Burrowed units have no attack, os they do the same thing. Lurkers do have an attack so they do not try to run away if hit. @EebstertheGreat And I think irridate doesnt make units move since its direct health removal instead of damage (so it doesnt trigger armor).

[@EebstertheGreat]

@@anonvideo738 No, the code specifically checks if units are burrowed and if they are irradiated. An irradiated unit won't unburrow even if you shoot at it with a marine or cloaked wraith or whatever. Blizzard's website told people to burrow irradiated units so they don't damage their neighbors, and they specifically coded in an exception to make sure this tactic worked.

[@stambe8605]

@@EebstertheGreat Interesting. I never knew that or seen it mentioned before that its specifically coded so they dont unburrow if they are irradiated.

[@-Nick-T]

30...40!

[@user-kb2no8yg1o]

Queens are good against tanks, but that's it.

[@serhiy_serhiy]

Already saw that game... Saiyan casting. A little bit unfortunate.

[@felipediazflores1151]

Com'ooooooon Jaedong.... ONE spore will counter this haaaard. My bro waited to Hive to make a spore .... sad zerg noises.

[@Dodovacer]

not sure whats wrong with him. See him play so bad all the time is just sad.

[@Daemurry]

저그의 신이 이제동인데 이제동을 이겼네. 테란 컨트롤 잘 하네

[@kevinf.2556]

i really dont understand why not a single spore in the mineral line, especially after you see THAT many wraiths... absolute complacency - its a standard in all SCII matches the moment you see early starport aggression from P or T for a reason, defense vs cloaked/super speedy air arass units is like one of the first skills checks after all. i know this is super rare in SCI because most worker harass comes from vulture/templar/reaver drops in the early game in SCI, however that ensanre should not have been the make it or break it card - extremely disappointed :/

[@kevinf.2556]

@valentinomanontroppe4675 yes?

[@ethansaltmere]

wtf is that wraith micro so insanely broken

[@novitrix9671]

how dare anyone besides zerg pull off air raiding micro!!!

[@Soursass]

The year is 2042. Mankind has destroyed all civilization as we know it through nuclear Armageddon. There is no more internet. StarCraft is dead. Yet Artosis is still casting soundlessly into the void.

[@dewinmoonl]

I think when tou fight wraith you treat them as mutas. You make anti air. JD lost sooo many drones he could've made 8 spores with all the losses

[@joelb1299]

Super EZ Zerg. Burrow + ensnare + bad micro = loss

[@sleeper1855]

Watching zergs die to 2 port wraith makes me sad.

[@AlojzyZyrokompas]

Painful to watch. That first miss was anticlimactic.

[@novitrix9671]

Spoilers Terran up the skies!!!

[@Berry_Bruiser]

1 spell, it really could of gone either way. Great game from both players.

[@Tablon_Nibbles]

Each time I see Jaedong I get more convinced that he is overrated for me. For a reason or another, he is defeated. And that's normal for me, not always you get a win, but Jaedong has questionable play.

[@somecooney5304]

Zerg is the underdog in a TvZ. Always has been. Always will be.

[@blacklight4720]

Zerg is the underdog? With Mutas and defilers?

[@eulogp9888]

The problem with ensnare it's a slow projectile like the EMP for science vessel and easy to evade. EMP is essential against protoss though, the ensnare isn't when plague and dark swarm are ready and easier to cast... IMHO ensnare would be a more interesting spell if it was cast by the spore colonies after a hive upgrade. Queens should be broodling and parasite only (+infest), both spells should be slightly cheaper, especially the parasite.

[@EziixPked]

ensnare travels very fast he just missed

[@stambe8605]

Ensnare is homing if you cast it on a unit, instead on an area like Jaedong did, because he didnt wait for his overlords and wanted to try to get the Wraiths immediately. EMP is never homing, no matter if you aim it at a unit or the ground - if you aim it, lets say at an Arbiter, it just uses the location the Arbiter was at that moment and detonate there, but it doesnt follow. Thats why EMP misses so often vs Arbiters. If it was homing or had a little more range, it would've been a much better spell.

[@Daniel-tz7is]

Yes gamers need to stop naming themselves “Hero” or “(something)King” its so overused its not cool anymore