As good as all that?: The Class 196 reviewed

[@EGPFAviation]

I am early! I agree about the design looking stunning. The interior looks great (apart from the lack of armrests), and the smart lighting is a great touch. More trains should have this *Cough IET Cough* . The points ride quality is a problem that CAF need to improve though.

[@bb-3653]

Looking back at this video. The suspension issues. They have been improved over time as compared to the 195s. The 170s are alot heavier and its likely easier to make the suspension work better due to bulky bogies with alot of space for additional parts etc.

[@RedfernModelRailway]

I completely agree with you! The lack of arm rests on these units is baffling for me...

[@suchcone]

The responsive lighting reminded me of a recent trip on a Voyager - the seat reservation displays actually dim after departure, then go brighter when the train arrives at a station. I had never noticed before. How did I find out? Because of course I had to stand in the aisle and faced one constantly scrolling the seat was available, which of course it wasn't to me, as someone was sat in it, alongside every other seat, just to add insult to injury😅 Do the seats on these collapse as much as the XC 170s? I find the XC ones look plush until you sit down at which point the foam collapses entirely and it's like sitting in an upturned wheelbarrow.

[@GWVillager]

I didn’t know that about the Voyagers either, that would be quite a nice touch if they weren’t so overcrowded. Most of the 170s have collapsed seats, due the fact that they haven’t been refurbished for too long. However, when they aren’t collapsed they’re extremely comfortable.

[@angelgames9351]

06:10 CAF is usually not spelt, but instead said as a single word. It’s a bit of a shame that their ride quality is poor, since here in Spain it has a decent one, better than the other national manufacturer, talgo.

[@GWVillager]

I didn't know that, thank you!

[@Thornaby37]

The issues with ride quality when traveling over points and jointed track also applies to the 197s It seems as though all the CAF Civity units excel in some aspects but have got it completely wrong in others

[@willsen8908]

Thats CAF for you

[@Anzle9]

All they need in my opinion is something like what the 185 has but I’d expect there would be some potential engineering complications due to extra weight and the power output with the 200hp power difference making them slower and less efficient

[@joemercedeschannel196]

The 197's ride quality at High speeds or max speed is also loke an IET. The 196's are clearly better than that

[@Ted010]

Transport for Wales has changed the dreadful Fainsa ironing board seats on their class 197 fleet, prior to introduction with something a bit more comfortable at a cost of under £2M. Pity someone didn't pick up on this for the uncomfortable class 196 fleet.

[@GWVillager]

The 196s don't have the terrible ironing boards, and don't even have Fainsa seats, unlike the 197s which switched out to the Fainsa Sophia. I imagine the Fisa Lean will have cost WMR a good bit more than the ironing boards though.

[@Lee_303]

You're thinking of Northern 195's? The seats on them are, shall we say, 'sporty'?

[@OnTheRailEnthusiast2543]

The hype for these were good but generally I think the 170s are all round better. These trains look stunning though. I don’t like the noise when they brake to. And it’s surprising that they don’t have a armrest. Some journeys are long so you need at least something for your hand to rest!

[@nature_people]

Is the braking noise normal though?

[@OnTheRailEnthusiast2543]

@@nature_people Considering these trains are new. No.

[@randombustrainvids977]

Yeah I agree the 170s are nicer imo

[@bethclark7199]

My Hubby 🤣 at 6.55 lol

[@GWVillager]

Oh wow, in the cab? Were they able to fix the fault?

[@thetrainshop]

1 year later, came to comment that the "squeal" sound is probably something like a hydrodynamic braking unit to save wear on brake pads.

[@echo-eh8jz]

Another good video GW. One question, how do you record the clips, do you do it secretively or very obviously? Thanks

[@GWVillager]

I try and do it discreetly and in a way that doesn't jeopardise the comfort and privacy of people who may appear (though common sense applies, sometime filming someone is unavoidable - like that gentleman vaping - but I don't think this is the end of the world as there is no real date connection nor much identifying information). I certainly wouldn't say I'm secretive about it, so somewhere in between would probably be my short answer.

[@echo-eh8jz]

@@GWVillager thanks for the reply. completely agree

[@robertmorley9748]

My guess would be that the brake squeal is due to ‘sintered’ friction materials , metallic based compared to other materials used elsewhere. 180’s/80x are similar.

[@britishboi1239]

Honestly I don't think the ride quality is that bad although I have no idea about standing as unlike on a turbostar from Shrewsbury to Birmingham I was able to get a seat on my journey

[@GWVillager]

It's considerably worse than the 170s, there's no doubt about that. But having a seat dampens the problem, and the 196s can offer more of those.

[@joemercedeschannel196]

To me they are alot better than the 170's. They have got alot more legroom and is less noisy than the 170 (Exept for when it brakes when it almost comes toward a stop)

[@Les_MeilleursMCFC]

The same engine as the class 172s. With the squeal of the aventras

[@davidt-rex2062]

I love that livery. It's not "dynamic lines" but it really fits the body. The interior (especially the lighting) is very similar to the class 3000 /4000 on nir

[@GWVillager]

Yeah it's rather smart, just a shame WMR can't clean it decently. The lighting makes sense, they're both CAF.

[@linesided]

How about reviewing the HST IP because they nailed ride quality over 50 years ago.

[@physiocrat7143]

BT10 bogies. Nothing better for 125 mph. For lower speeds there are probably nothing better than the LNER Gresley bogie fitted to a lot of BR stock, and the BR type B4 bogie. The bogies on the 158, 313; 442, 455 and 465 etc are pretty good. The post privatisation stock is poor in comparison.

[@GWVillager]

I might. One day. It's a long way away though, if it were to happen!

[@LordEverythingtrains]

They're good. Quiet and efficient. Those announcements are hilarious 😂

[@maidenhead7760]

Quiet💀💀

[@bb-3653]

​​@maidenhead7760 from the inside. They are relitively tame. The engine is a decent level of sound that is really decent. Its likely impossible to have a silent diesel train due to the method of traction. Secondly super quiet trains are pretty boring so im not affected by mild spunds at all.

[@therickychannel6292]

Leaving Birmingham New Street station. The announcement goes beep.

[@SeanMidlandstransporthub]

Great video! I subscribed

[@kieranstravels]

The breaks are not a 196 specific issue, as the 195, a few years later, still make the god awful sound. Still though, I do personally think they are relatively decent trains overall, much like yourself. Great video

[@tenny_tenten]

Even our trains in Manila, the LRTA 13000 class also made by CAF (with Mitsubishi tech) has the same braking issue, god awful loud

[@Lee_303]

Being CAF let's hope they don't catch fire!

[@bb-3653]

Their design looks like an omage to the class 317s , which i love alot, instead of trying weird alien designs like the 385s (385s look hideous) They definately accelerate 100× better than 170s for sure.

[@ChineseJohnCena]

I think they are fairly rated, good trains and aren’t as overrated as the class 195

[@joemercedeschannel196]

Mostly because they don't have ironing board seats. And they ride better than the 195.

[@bb-3653]

​@@joemercedeschannel196they do have revised suspension. They have to due to cracks found in earlier 195 models.

[@stuarthargreaves3745]

Looks like an updated 158

[@physiocrat7143]

Over styled. It will look dated in 15 years.

[@AlfieThompson777]

i was on that train that broke down

[@TrainsAreBetterThanDriving]

An interesting instance of better and worse ride quality, is the class 700 vs the older Electrostars. Often newer trains have had some problems with ride quality, such as CAF built trains and the IETs. Electrostars which are older however also can be very rough over the bogies. Compared to Electrostars, the newer class 700s are lighter relative to their length, but are also smoother over points and crossing. So light and modern trains can still have good ride qualities. You are just completely wrong about the class 700's bad ride quality on the EMU ranking video.

[@frankrogowski5608]

The bogies are weak, that's why the ride is not a patch on the 175s. That centre door is lethal when it comes to severely curved platforms - an example for one is Earlestown station. The cabs are the ugliest in dmu history., and the transmission being mechanical takes you back to the heritage unit days!

[@SimonHowes]

I don’t get why the step into the doors are so high, 10-15 cm higher than normal. Internal is cramped, ceiling feels so low. Ride quality is pretty poor, and comfort is awful.

[@floha978]

Why do british trains have that small windows for the driver and how is that even safe?

[@GWVillager]

The gangway doors that allow passengers and crew to walk between two coupled trains take up most of the room. It is arguably poor for visibility, but this style of cab window has been in use for over a century now with very few accidents relating to it.

[@LordEverythingtrains]

Look at the Dutch koploper cab, that is the same but the cab is tiny

[@nature_people]

The fact that there is no armrest is a bit funny. Otherwise they look ok.

[@davidreed9671]

The ride quality on these CAF units is a joke. BR had this licked on the Sprinter series 30 years back. And the seats !!! DfT are daft! The fire resistant covers are good enough never mind the padding. Millions of passengers are being inconvenienced for something that will never happen. I speak from personal experience of an attempted arson attack on a 313!

[@thisis_mudchute]

this guy really doesnt like seats if they arent literal trampolines like the bakerloo line

[@lolroflpmsl]

Do these have the werid gearbox that the 195 has?

[@GWVillager]

I think so, they’re technically very similar.

[@eternalturtle2439]

The and sounded more like a simple, AA.

[@williamhuang8309]

Hey at least it's not an aventra

[@GWVillager]

I actually quite like the Aventras considering the routes they operate. Broadly speaking though, as the 720s do leave a little to be desired.

[@bb-3653]

@@GWVillager they leave motor sounds to be desired

[@jack_da_trainspotter4923]

When they come to my line in wostershire they are Gona be better that the 172

[@GWVillager]

They are considerably better than 172s yeah.

[@Andrewjg_89]

The Class 196 West Midlands Railway are very nice. Not to mention the Class 197 Transport for Wales. CAF should continue on manufacturing new Civity DMU and EMU trains including for Great Western Railway, South Western Railway, ScotRail, Southern and Southeastern. And possibly new Civity trains for East West Rail instead of inheriting the Class 196 from West Midlands Railway.

[@hipstercrab5886]

that's quite a bummer they're not electric great train otherwise!

[@GWVillager]

Bi-modes would be nice for the stretch between Birmingham and Wolverhampton/Bromsgrove yeah.

[@Jules-zo3ds]

Good review but it's funny how people's taste differs as I think this is one of the ugliest looking trains ever made, shape rather than livery. I wonder if the drivers prefer a glass panel across the front?

[@GWVillager]

Oh drivers certainly prefer full width cabs, it's just less operationally flexible.

[@physiocrat7143]

The highly styled front ends will look badly dated by the time that they are half way through through their service life. Bay dimension should be 1.90 metres with 1.5 metre wide windows. There is no excuse for badly profiled seats. The information has been available for sixty years. If the trains are rough riding they are probably track bashers.