Asexual Discourse Needs To Stop

[@amberrichards2778]

I'm allosexual and aromantic, my wife is asexual aromantic. I've been told that our identity is "wrong" because we're married. There are TONS of reasons for someone to get married outside of romantic or sexual feelings, i.e taxes, medical rights, property, queer-platonic stuff, etc. They're my best friend. We've been happily married for 6+ years. The gatekeeping is REAL

[@lynnsaga1397]

honestly I wish more people understood that especially because marrying for love is a much more modern thing. it's also so weird to me they people think it's ok to comment on someone else's relationship

[@ands_t]

i am so happy for you guys congrats for living your truth ❤

[@amberrichards2778]

@@ands_t tysm

[@garak_on_b5679]

questioning the reason for someone else's marriage "wrong" or "right" is so arragant and rude. also not all alloes married for love or child or any of those traditionally "understandable" reason any way

[@RedBlack-kt7xu]

Very true

[@FoxGameCZ]

People forget that demisexuals can date same gender or different genders alltogether. Like mine friend, she dates nonbinary person.

[@lynnsaga1397]

Yeah it always gets me especially as a bi demi people think I'm doing it for the attention and I'm like I don't even get attention from it 😂😂😂

[@Milotriplea]

I'm aroace and just found out i'm queerplatonically loving a friend. At the moment it's a really bad situation for me because i told her and we wanted to talk about it, but my anxiety just ruined it. I hope i will be able to talk to her again and figure out stuff. Thank you for your videos, you actually helped me figuring out my orientation and your channel is such a safespace for me. ❤❤❤

[@lynnsaga1397]

I hope you're able to talk things out communication is always best❤️ and I'm really glad my channel has been there for you!

[@Tyler16bit]

I'm ace and hetero-romantic. Thank you for including an explanation about it in this video, and maybe it can educate others. I'm still learning as well.

[@lynnsaga1397]

Of course! I definitely feel like it's something that gets overlooked in the community and if it is brought up it's never in a nice way so I was like I'm going to change that

[@Elena_7839]

I'm Asexual and Demiromantic. It took a long time to figure that out and during that journey I did find a bit of gatekeeping surrounding microlables. But now I tend to find less and less of that type of gatekeeping which is great. Personally I wish everyone would just let people be who they are and leave it at that.

[@lynnsaga1397]

Honestly! I've never understood gatekeeping

[@aroacequeen]

I’m fictoxexual, and I’ve only been attracted to fictional characters and celebrities. I don’t have crushes on celebrities anymore but I’ve always felt uncomfortable with sexual things with irl people. The idea of sexual activities with fictional characters is absolutely amazing, but I’ve always (and still do) felt uncomfortable with irl people wanting to do sexual things with me. I’ve never had it, but I know that I don’t want to do it. My imagination with my fictional characters is all I need 😊

[@holumar]

Thank you for this video; it addresses a topic I recently discussed with my friends. Living in a European country where asexuality is not commonly known, my coming out usually involves educating my friends about it, which I expected and was fine with. However, what caught me off guard was when people would relate to me and then reinterpret my explanation, saying things like, "Oh, if it means this, I am ace too," or "I am demi too." My struggle arose from being almost certain that the person I was talking to was allosexual, based on our previous discussions about dating and my sense that something was off about how they perceived others' feelings. I wanted to tell them, "No, you don't quite understand." But then, I questioned whether I might be mistaken, and they were just encountering this language for the first time. Balancing this uncertainty felt invalidating. I wondered why I needed a special label when others seemed to share similar feelings without requiring one. So for now, I gatekeep my little fortress of aceness in my head and include only people who proclaim being ace by themselves and not as a reaction to my coming out.

[@garak_on_b5679]

it can be really frustrating when you have to educate those you come out to, especially it seems they don't care and don't listen

[@Toni-lo9ms]

I'm both aego & demisexual but also demi romantic. We who feel the sexy feeling but not as allos do get a lot of erasure and gatekeeping. I have friends who are sex repulsed or neutral or don't feel sexual at all and I see their sides too. The sex positive versus repulsed discourse is toxic for both sides. 😔

[@lynnsaga1397]

It really is such a hard thing and yeah it really is very toxic

[@elking8373]

Microlabels+split orientation gate keeping is the worst. I’m fluid, but mostly a biromantic homosexual demiwoman and I get told my romantic orientation is the end-all be-all community for me. That I’m biphobic, lesbiphobic and that I’m not on the asexual spectrum because I do have sexual attraction to some people.

[@lynnsaga1397]

Its so ridiculous to me that other people think they can tell you about your experience. I'm so sorry people have said that stuff to you and you definitely are part of the community!

[@sandserpent]

slay

[@christinaford7021]

I'm a non-binary, panromantic aegosexual autistic Ace, but I behave like a demi-sexual when in relationships with non-ace people. People often try to tell me that I'm not ace, despite my lack of interest in coitus and sexual attraction. It's their personality i like and if they have those desires, i have the capability to satisfy them regardless of whether I'm personally interested. Like going to a sports game when you don't like sports because your partner or friend loves them and you just want to be with them regardless of the activity. Has anyone else had a similar experience?

[@Arakhor]

It's awkward being an oriented aro-ace. Not only am I constantly wondering whether I'm faking being attracted to guys, so many people don't realise that they're both spectrums and aren't necessarily at the same point on each spectrum (essentially the split-attraction model, but for aro-aces). I've had two squishes (platonic crushes) on women, but what tiny amount of sexual/romantic attraction I've had has only ever been towards men, but if I ever mentioned this to anyone, they'd likely say, "how can you be gay if you're aro-ace?"

[@lynnsaga1397]

I completely understand 🥺 people just don't understand it and I wish more did

[@sabearider]

I was 19 (in 1999) when I came out to my parents and friends as being gay. Three previous relationships with girls ended once it became physical. I didn't like that so I must be gay right? There are men I find visually pleasing, so I had a couple of relationships with men that felt EXACTLY the same to me as the ones with girls did. The romantic part felt awkward and unnecessary. I liked my partners so I spoofed my actions based on what I thought a relationship should look like based on books and films. The sexual part was even worse. Although I can feel arousal, I was never able to spoof that part for long - I could not "perform". I like the aesthetic of all genders and am OK with the abstract concept of sex and relationships as long as I don't have to be a part of it. So after thinking I was gay, I thought maybe I am trans. I do watch porn and masturbate, though I never imagine myself being the "penetrator". So I explored that. But I wasn't. My arousal is without a direction. Throughout all of this journey there were groups and communities helping me along the way, even back in the late 90s early 2000s. But sooner or later I got shunt because at the end I was neither gay nor trans. Wanting to be in a romantic relationship but not leading a relationship. And once I realized I was not only not the "penetrator" but also not the "penetrated" in any of my fantasies I broke: There is something seriously wrong with me! I went to multiple therapies with many therapists. In hindsight the first therapist was really helpful. He helped me with other problems but would not help me with my sexual or romantic problems in the way I thought I wanted because: "Some people don't feel that [romantic or sexual attraction]". I was not ready to hear nor accept that. I was upset, how could he? I have a problem. Everyone needs someone. And he has the audacity to neglect me help. I was suffering, so why won't he help me. And I quit this therapist before I realized: He was right. It took me quite some time to realize that my suffering did not exist because I could not lead romantic or sexual realtionships but because my surroundings and I expectectd from me to want to lead those. Once I discarded those obligations I felt free. I was comfortable with myself. But still I did not have a name for it. I wasn't queer - at least that what some LGBTQ+ People I knew lead me to believe. Some of them rather harshly. So where do I fit in? Today I identify as Aroace and many of my friends who were with me along this journey - including many who were harsh - learned. The same way I had to learn. We are all different. And although we might not be different the same way, we share the feeling of being different, not fitting in at some point or another. This maybe because we do not fit in the heteronormative worldview nor the amatonormative worldview, we don't feel right with our gender or sex or fit in preconceived pigeonholes . We need to be there for each other. Even if their journey is different from ours. So nobody has to feel: "I am broken: There is something seriously wrong with me".

[@SonicTimewarp]

Heteroromantic Ace here. Thank you for talking about us. It’s so nice to be seen by other aces online. Any advice on meeting other Aces in real life?

[@Jordi-wd3fu]

Thanks Lynn, you have a very inclusive and healthy point of view!! I am a demisexual heteroromantic married man (48 years) with two adult sons, and I feel queer and ace. I do NOT identify myself as heterosexual!!! Heterosexual men never understood my lack of sexual attraction when I was a teenager, and I felt very negatively judged for that (I even wrote a book on that, but not in english). So no, I am NOT heterosexual, definitely. Ace people express the same feelings I experience, so my place is in the LGBTIQA+ community, sorry for that, haha! :D I can say I am sex favorable and feel sexual attraction only for my wife. I have some other female friends, and I love them a lot, I feel affective atraction for them, but NEVER sexual attraction, and I assure you that the idea of having sex with them is repulsive to me. So I am also in between both sides of the conflict. Thanks for your videos again!!❤

[@scretladyspider]

Oh hey my comment started that part of it - and I am also demisexual/gray ace (I use both personally, and sometimes I also use cupiosexual, as I am sex favorable or neutral, as I have a high libido). I am also panromantic and agender. Figuring all that out was SOO confusing to me growing up because I wanted to be wanted and was taught that sex meant that the person loved you, and I wanted to be loved. Then I had it often because I felt like it was just… expected? And it was also very confusing when I enjoyed sex but just didn’t care about it before it was happening. Then I learned arousal was different than being sexually attracted to a person. 😵‍💫 I think the thing that gets me is that I’ll be told “oh, clarify it’s just your experiences”. But when I DO share those experiences, then it’s bad somehow. It’s very weird and feels very uncomfortable and hurtful when it comes from other aces. I try to also go out of my way to uplift the voices of sex repulsed aces, and validate those experiences, to try to bridge that gap. But it does feel like an ongoing battle in many ways, and like every time it comes up there’s a whole new battle within it. Often at this point I don’t want to talk about it or explain my experiences because it can start to feel like talking to a wall, even to other aces. We all have different experiences and putting each other down, when we already have the larger world that doesn’t like us, there’s no use in hurting each other, too.

[@ranairby9697]

Such a great job on this Lynn. I'm ace and tired of the infighting in the community

[@r_t1609]

I honestly wasn't aware of the discourse in the ace community- might be because I'm still somewhat knew to it. But the whole gate-keeping honestly doesn't make any sense. If you identify as something then you identify as it, and you shouldn't be told by other people who identify as the same thing that "you can be this because (insert stupid reason)" Everyone deserves respect.

[@sonicmario64]

I actually had no idea that asexual individuals who are heterosexual tend to get hated just because they aren't gay, bisexual, or whatever like other Aces, since I happen to be someone who has romantic feelings towards the opposite gender, but I'm not into sex-related stuff at all. After learning that hetero-romantic attractions are, indeed, a thing in the asexual community, I feel pretty comfortable with being an Ace and that no one should ever be shamed for what they prefer in a relationship, especially if it's not hurting anyone in any way.

[@BobOrKlaus]

great video! i just wanted to say thank you for teaching me loads about aro and ace stuff, i figured out very recently that im demiromantic and fraysexual (the literal opposite of demisexual which is certainly an experience when you go from being sexually attracted to romantically attracted to a person as you get to know them more/get closer with them)

[@PotiusSeroQamNumquam]

Thank you so much for this content! As demisexual myself, it's sometimes hard to name my thoughts. Thank you so much!

[@BGBTech]

In my case, I am not entirely sure if asexual or demisexual. Seems like sometimes I do feel an emotional attraction towards people, but typically, anything physical doesn't seem to be a big factor (if it is present, it seems I mostly either ignore it or forget it ever happened). Never been physically involved with anyone, nor really been in any real relationships for that matter (well, at least not in the past 20 years or so). Had still wanted to find someone to marry and have kids with and similar, but this seems increasingly unlikely (and this seems like a bigger factor for me; and if I could make pseudo-clones like Dr. Membrane from Invader Zim; I would have been happy enough with this option as well... but alas...). Otherwise, "looking for someone" was sort of like one of these things one does because they "need to so", sort of like looking for a job, then the usual hassle that no one is interested, so it is easier to be like "yeah, screw it", but then the situation still isn't any closer to being resolved, so ... (well, at least for the "job" front, did sort-of fixing it by starting a machine shop and making parts on contract, thus not needing a formal job... no real equivalent for "dating" though). in general, I suspect I am neither particularly attracted nor repulsed by the idea of physical intimacy, rather the whole thing just seems "sort of abstract", not sure how to describe it, like I have difficulty really feeling much of anything about it either way. Previously, I didn't believe I was aromantic, as I did tend to have emotions towards people sometimes; took a test, and it does seem like I come up as aromantic as well (and what feelings I have are not particularly "romantic" in nature); granted, I didn't really identify with traditional descriptions of "romantic attraction" either, which just sort of seemed strange and irrational to me. Do still feel lonely sometimes though, and my interactions with females had usually gone the direction of me just sort of info-dumping my thoughts until they lose interest in responding (but, if they were compatible, presumably they would respond favorably, and if not, they are not compatible anyways, so the status quo goes on as-is). A few times, I thought maybe the issue was that I just sort of "thought" I was this way because I haven't met anyone that seemed interested in me, but then I realized, this is not how "attraction works" (eg, as something one feels towards others, rather than something that exists as a sort of reflection of their interest or driven by situation or convenience). But, yeah, I think I fit somewhere in these categories... FWIW: I am also autistic and seem to have affective alexithymia; etc... ...

[@acereporter266]

I'm aro/ace and straight (thought I was hetero romantic until I found out I was aromantic, welcome to the confusing world of microlabels. Because of aesthetic attraction, I enjoy looking at an attractive man the way some people enjoy looking at a well designed interior. And thanks for addressing the infighting between sex repulsed and sex averse. I never understood it because I always considered myself sex neutral to sex favorable because I have a libido, I just don't care to share it. Until I knew that asexuality was a spectrum, I couldn't come out.

[@starscreamthecruel8026]

I was born Aro/Ace, grew up wondering what was wrong with me, being told I had mental illness(I do but they are not connected) and that I could be *CURED* by the right guy. I've had only ONE, count it, ONE sexual relationship in my entire life and it almost caused me to end my life. I swore after that went nuclear, I would NEVER EVER date again and twenty five years later, I am STILL single. I was baptised catholic, taught that sex repulsed was the female's role as dictated by God, the Man would decide whether or not you could feel anything etc. Swung from Sex Repulsed to Sex Attracted and finally when the dust cleared on that nuke strike, levelled out at Sex Indifferent. Circumstances in my life when I developed Inflammatory Breast Cancer and had to have Chemo/Radical Radiotherapy(double dose), took the matter out of my hands completely, probably rendered me infertile and killed my libido stone dead. These days, I am lucky if I can even FEEL platonic towards anyone, because all forms of attraction have left the building.

[@lynnsaga1397]

Oh my god I'm sorry about the cancer and the relationship but I'm glad you made it through 🥺

[@starscreamthecruel8026]

@@lynnsaga1397 Thanks. Sheer stubbornness is what got me through. Lost a lot of would be friends though. Did you know you arent female if you lose your hair, have to have a boob removed and your periods switch off? Shock horror(Heavy Sarcasm). I wonder what that guy thinks Menopausal Women are though they dont lose their hair at least. The comments I got when I was bald ranged from nasty to downright creepy: One Goth at a festival said I had a very *Attractive Skull*. I got the hell outta there after.

[@Emilyrox]

I found out I was ace because of a post on tumblr listing a lot of the microlabels under the ace umbrella (I'm aego). If I hadn't seen that, I probably would've never known. I also see similar gatekeeping that goes on in the ace community in the aro community as well. People claim that aromantic allosexual people are "heartless," "sluts," "liars," and other derogatory terms. I think a huge part of this problem is people view sexuality labels as end-all-be-all, where it implies both sexual and romantic attraction, when in reality sexual and romantic attraction are not linked. People will say they're asexual, and people assume that means they're also aro. So if someone says they're aromantic allosexual, the aro part is either ignored or they're shamed for it. AroAllos are just as valid as AroAces and AlloAces.

[@FoxGameCZ]

I know only one asexual advicate of colour. She is underwear model. Give me a sec I need to find her. Edit: her name is Yasmin Benoit Edit: nevermind you literally named her

[@lynnsaga1397]

I love her! She's literally the first main stream activist I saw talking about asexuality

[@sol_autumnleaves]

Thank you for adressing these issues in this very informative video. Being on the ace spectrum myself (demisexual/panromantic) I definitely see all of your points. This discourse really needs to stop!

[@lynnsaga1397]

It really does! I love our community so much and I feel like we could be so much stronger if we didn't fight so much

[@sol_autumnleaves]

@@lynnsaga1397 definitely agree! We need to stop fighting each other and start supporting each other!

[@teucer915]

I'm just so glad we've moved on from "are ace people actually part of the Queer community?" nonsense. I remember being told "well you count because you're bi-romantic" and wanting to scream "but my lack of sexual attraction is marginalized in a way that doesn't remotely depend on that!"

[@MollyFox-gs3sl]

(asexual and getting increasingly lesbian romantic) I'll have to come out to my parents someday. they haven't pressured me to start dating. but probably assume it'll just work out someday. I have no idea how they would react as christians, I think it's a tossup between being legit proud and being slightly disappointed. i've scripted out different ways to explain it including "do you want the medical term or the queer label?" because I think they are against the community but not individuals and would rather believe I have hypoactive sexual desire disorder.

[@liamodonovan6610]

Sweetheart lynn love you're video's the LGBTQIA is always fighting among themselves demisexuality is as realcand valid as any orientation love your videos lynn you are a very intelligent person

[@lynnsaga1397]

Thank you so much for always being one of the first to comment! I look forward to them every time I upload ☺️

[@starscreamthecruel8026]

My best mate is DemiSexual and being Aro/Ace we get on fine coz theres no tension. There is a way for girls and guys to be friends coz I've found it :D

[@liamodonovan6610]

@@starscreamthecruel8026 there are always ways for guy and girls to be just friebds iam aro ace too not really have Internet in making friends

[@starscreamthecruel8026]

@@liamodonovan6610 I spent my entire life growing up being told that guys were only friends if they wanted to get into your *knickers*. Im from the UK, this is our word for pants in case you're American ;) But that's silly. What if girls dont like you coz you're weird? I didnt get any girl friends til well into my 30s, so you're supposed to have no friends? What about the guys? Isnt it dull just hanging out with ppl who are constantly telling you what you can and cant do? I think a healthy balance in a group of friends has both male and female(and non binary if they're about). I hate this girls vs guys crap. Its not necessary and just creates hurt and drama.

[@that_tikosh]

Aegosexual heteroromantic (maybe somewhere on the aro spectrum) here.. So far I didn't have to deal with gatekeeping myself but I have seen gatekeeping from the rest of the non-aro/ace part of the LGBTQIA+ community towards heterosexual aros / heteroromantic aces saying that they do not belong because they are hetero in some way..

Merci !

[@lynnsaga1397]

Oh my god thank you so much!!

[@nathanbernards]

I just want to make sure inclusiveness isn't based on who ranks higher on hate lists... that would be stupid

[@ands_t]

I feel so said by the hate that yasmin receives, I hope our love gets to her heart ❤

[@afunkygremlin]

Heyo, just wanted to say this is a really cool (and incredibly important) video. As an ace ((and aro spec)) person im really happy to see this type of thing talked about a bit more. Also your hair is looking really cool. :)) (/p)

[@lynnsaga1397]

It really does need to get talked about more. And thank you I haven't been feeling my hair lately so it's nice to know someone else likes it😅

[@p0etrygh0st]

Just a little tweak comment here - aces aren’t just het romantic necessarily. Because it’s little to no sexual attraction het aces may feel het sexual attraction at times just much less than Allos.

[@proudtobeanerd5340]

For me, I don’t really see the point of including sex-favorable or sex-indifferent asexuals, since the end result is that you might still have sex and possibly even enjoy it. Is there enough of a practical difference between them and allosexuals to justify their inclusion in the asexual community? Why not count them as microlabels under the allosexual umbrella? (Genuinely asking, no judgment towards these people.)

[@RedBlack-kt7xu]

Grey ace and demisexual. Proud to be part of the community

[@momosmily14]

All ace people unite✌️ lets just all be cool by being accepting and lifting each other up🎉

[@HarryShewring]

Hiya I love your points in the video and agree especialy with trying on lables to see if they fit. Love your videos. the helped me realise I was ace (and what ace meant) thanks

[@lynnsaga1397]

I'm so happy my videos were able to help!

[@glitchy9201]

You get mean comments that isn't right for what you do you don't deserve it

[@lynnsaga1397]

I appreciate that 🥺 KZbin likes to put my content in front of more conservative folks and I just don't get it😅

[@JonathanJimbo]

​@@lynnsaga1397I've noticed shorts get shown towards many more people than the longform videos... and therefore I tend to see way more hate comments on the shorts (not just on your channel but many others too). Whereas the longform videos I believe mostly get shown to people that are already interested (or at the very least people who aren't interested are less likely to comment).

[@mrjoker3665]

💚🤍🖤🖤🤍💜

[@lynnsaga1397]

💜💜💜💜

[@mrjoker3665]

​@@lynnsaga1397as a aroace of colour thank you for making this video

[@bdariamihaela]

Wow you were a mormon?! How come you never mention this before? Maybe you should do a video telling that part of your story

[@lynnsaga1397]

I believe I talked about it in my coming out video which is one of my first videos on here but have been thinking about doing a video about what it was like growing up asexual and nonbinary in the mormon church because OOF

[@jasonfanclub4267]

I don't know what I am

[@drsuqi]

im gray ace and change between being repulsed/indifferent/favorable. s-favorable aces are very much still ace because the core experience (feeling nothing in terms of sexual attraction) is still there, even though on the outside you dont see it. i can see why some might say it 'devalues being ace' but that just comes from a bunch of extra assumptions about being ace that arent true for everyone

[@sandserpent]

NOT VAILD go back to the hole you climbed out of. gray ace is just straight with extra steps boooooooo

[@drsuqi]

@@sandserpent i dont like girls though?

[@riley3087]

Ignore them, they're an idiot who only exists in these comments to troll.

[@MasterTurner969]

@@sandserpenthuh

[@sandserpent]

unpopular opinion: if you don't wear the ace ring you are not ace

[@therosbeyondgoat]

Let's not gatekeep others' identities, okay?