Ashes of Creation Fighter Review - Feedback and PvP Theorycrafting

[@ZybakTV]

Please follow me on other platforms as KZbin is unreliable! linktr.ee/zybaktv 0:00 - Introduction 0:26 - The Ashes of Creation's Fighter is VERY similar to the Warrior from Wildstar 2:31 - General playstyle and vibe of the Fighter 4:47 - The Fighter is hard to play? 11:20 - Fighter PvP and Theorycrafting 16:03 - Feedback + Things I'd like to see changed My thoughts on the Fighter class in Ashes of Creation. So far I'm having a blast with this class and there's a very high chance I main this on release!

[@plannindorf]

Yeah it'll be interesting to see how the fighter's more brawly abilities end up landing as the meta starts to solidify. Thanks for the awesome breakdown!

[@crashgaming247]

Recent MMOs really lack frontline archtypes for pvp. In Ashes, there's Tank and Fighter. But almost every other class is ranged based, with the exception of rogue who is stealthed and not a frontline archtype. That's 6 classes vs 2. Unless a majority pick Fighter and Tank we will have an overwhelming amount of magic/ranged users compared to melee. It's odd. Every fantasy epic has a focus on melee majority with some mages. I'd like to see pvp battles that aren't just range spam and posturing. I think a fix would be to have different types of melee classes: Spear users excelling at trips, pushes and positioning, Axe or Hammer users as tank-busters, 2-handed sword acting as duelists, anti-magic Tanks with AOE shields, and anti-melee Tanks with souped-up melee defense. There should be reasons to see additional frontline toons on the field, incentivizing players to not all roll ranged. Otherwise we're just going to see the same ranged magic spam AOE'ing down anyone grouped up like every other MMO.

[@jamesn3122]

A lot of clerics will be front line, melee heal and support. Many Bards will also be in the front lines throwing buffs and debuffs in close to medium range. Rogues I don't think we know enough about yet to say how they will play overall in pvp, but yea I can see them being backline assassins for the most part. FInally, Summoners we also have no idea how they will operate. We could assume they will be ranged casters, but maybe they are more close to mid range, with their summons not being able to move very far away from them? I hope they have close range abilities, forced to fight right alongside their summons, but we will see.

[@EvolvedX69]

The momentum build up to a spin to win followed up with blood lust maim, insane aoe clear for mobs. Soooo good

[@EvolvedX69]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/povFe6yMd9GYprMsi=3rYEAfdwBFqE1JCz

[@EvolvedX69]

Good video for the build if anyone interested cheers

[@TheCopiumClinic]

I like your take about the skill floor being higher. I also think there’s a bit of a balancing issue right now where ranged DPS are more viable than melee in most situations

[@ZybakTV]

It does seem like ranged is the path of least resistance right now but I imagine a lot will be changing very quickly at their current development pace.

[@jamesdiato]

Bro i miss Wildstar warrior and Wildstar Zybak hahah

[@ZybakTV]

SAME! 😭

[@2santosgames]

Great video! I am thinking about to play fighter phase2

[@landsraad9745]

I would like to see that Horde banner all in frame

[@IzNebula]

As a fellow Fighter enjoyer, this video was really good. I pretty much agree with most of your points. One other thing I think the fighter lacks is group utility. Sure it has trips, but it's on a very clunky ability like cataclysm and the real use for it is pve content. In pvp, you will rarely see use for cataclysm due to it's cast time and the fact it roots you in place. Being rooted in place for a move that more than likely wont hit is just bad design on archetype like the Fighter who is very mobile. One of my suggestions for the class kit was to allow our form passives that we get in the talent tree to be applicable to our party members. Additionally, I suggested giving as a different capstone talent like Berserk, but instead of consuming momentum it paused it from draining and gave us all our forms. Cooldown would have to be balanced. However, it would be an alternate choice talent to choose from instead of Berserk(Cannot have both but that could be tested with a high enough cooldown given to it). IT would be less a damage talent but more utility with the way our forms and their passives work. The talent would be called "Be Water" referring to Bruce Lee's quote and specifically the part where he says "Be Formless" so the idea is that while in this state you gain all the forms and aren't tied to any specific one. Overall, I am having a blast playing Fighter, however the playstyle as you said in group fights it's really swapping to bow until you see an opening and then you go in and finish off a low health target and then you get out using Leap Strike. That's the best way to play the Archetype atm in organized group fights. We are like the Ranger with their Snipe, but in Melee. Needless to say, but it's it's much more risky. Either way all of this can change with higher lvl cap, so none of this may even apply once that happens. This is more of a viewpoint at the current Fighter.

[@Feverdream7777]

I played the ish out of Wildstar.... Wildstar Warrior was super fun... like a split between DeathKnight (grip) and Arm Warrior of Wow. (2h smashing)

[@jamesdiato]

Tbh one thing i wish they would tweak, the running animation when your sword is out. FFXIV players always wish Dark knight had a different running animation cause of how weird it looks.

[@cc66bb44]

Heyas subs, PRXER HERE 😅 I LIKED HOW WILD STAR the warrior had all these levitating abilities while you are swinging ur weapon and your legs are flaying around

[@Avo7977]

Now we're talkin baby!

[@carib3829]

You Had me at Wild.... 😁

[@ven3558]

Im very interested in AoC but dont rlly got time to play the alpha, i do like ur opinion on mmo stuff so keep it up brotha

[@manuelcacho1522]

great reviews!

[@ashfield4313]

I think that Fighter has a lot of potential to shore up some of its PvP weaknesses through the augment system and I know that every class or ability that feels not great to use right now is crutching on the cope that is augmentations. Here's why I think Fighter has a legitimate hope: there's no bad secondary class in a theorycrafting perspective. Do you want to play an all rounder as far as engagement ranges? Mage, Ranger, and potentially Summoner could easily solve this with not just augmentations but secondary weapon synergies. Do you want more staying power in large scale PvP? Cleric (oh-hit healing, improved Regenerative Celerity, Consuming Lethal Blow, etc.) for a diving playstyle and Tank (mitigation and temp HP) for a more bruiser playstyle. Do you just want a ton of damage up close? Rogue, Summoner, and Mage could help this out as well. Do you want to play generalist who is able to fill the gaps in a party? Bard potentially would enable party-wide/raid-wide buffs like an enhanced Battle Cry. Out of all of the classes Fighter has the best chance of being the top dog as far as classes go, especially if Intrepid sticks with the concept that secondary classes can be changed.

[@zachshannon6989]

I'm so pumped to roll fighter with a 2h axe next wipe

[@anti6868]

These videos are amasing. Im looking forward if there are more melee classes (NOT rogue, F that)

[@ZybakTV]

The only standard classes are Tank, Fighter, and Rogue. However once the multi-classing system is implemented you'll be able to make a more customized melee class of your choosing.

[@Nwfw]

they can fix Wallop by adding a stun if you have certain amount of momentum

[@davebaldwin3220]

Played a Bard to 12 and became a mana bettery. Played a warrior in WoW classic so i tried fighter.........welcome home. Feels amazing and when you get blood infusion. Get cucked in 1v1 vs tanks but we'll see how later levels develop. There are some pretty good vids out there on solo grinding for Fighter too.

[@alexp2689]

Finally a fighter using form of celerity to combo their abilities together. So many reviews about how the fighter is underwhelming or can’t solo or feels bad. People haven’t even taken the time to learn the class. Thinking they can just zug like it’s WoW… looking forward to the PvP content

[@ApothecaryArtyrus]

Spoken like someone who thinks they are smart. The servers have been so bad and laggy for specific server workers that even if you rush to get regenerative form of celerity, there's so many people around those levels and areas that you get fooled into believing your regen is absolutely worthless. What you should be doing is spreading the good word of how well it works if you aren't on a laggy server worker

[@ZybakTV]

I think the real value of Celerity is in the Stagger and that it allows you to empower your Crippling Blow to trip. The regen is pretty minimal. Even at max momentum it's only 1% regen which is not something you'll be maintaining long.

[@alexp2689]

@@ApothecaryArtyrus it’s all about the trip mechanic. The regen is not very good imo. And I have been spreading the word.

[@nevrast-1]

@@alexp2689 regen is substantial though edit: consider the fact that tank has a 10% hp heal on 30s cooldown(can be up to 30% but after really heavy hit) meanwhile we can heal that in 10s using a passive regen

[@nevrast-1]

@@ApothecaryArtyrus That is very true, even regen while sitting down is slowed. Although last weekend at least on my server I didnt have problems with regen.

[@nevrast-1]

I feel like the class misses a momentum builder, the only thing we have right now is Blitz.

[@xDrac]

Hey man I like your videos! Just wanted to say that haha

[@ZybakTV]

Thanks! Glad you are enjoying them!

[@12lippylucy]

What level does the fighter come alive ? I got a tank around 17 & my fighter is level 6. At the moment i play on EU server, fighting desyncing mobs can be very frustrating to die from. Really need to sort out the disconnections & server stability, my frame rate jumping all over the place, rubber banding ....etc Setting server stability too one side, do you think you will be a sitting duck 1v1 against other classes ? Or is about who gets to jump on who first ?

[@ZybakTV]

The fighter starts to come alive around level 12-13 imo. I doubt the Fighter will be a great 1v1 class long term. Generally the warrior style classes never are. Warrior style classes generally explode in effectiveness once you have a little bit of support.

[@nevrast-1]

Can confirm that lvl 12-13 is the sweet stop once you unlock lifesteal skill

[@stanjd]

Dude I miss wildstar. That combat system had serious potential.

[@ZybakTV]

I MISS IT TOO! 😭

[@XxBearZeusxX]

I will not cry about melees just yet. In ye olden WoW classic Warrior was believed to be garbage, so it was buffed, while Warrior was still believed to be weak a player came by to crack open the playstyle and it turned out Warrior was broken even before the buffs.

[@annekekramer3835]

I must say, the fighter looks really cool. In WoW the warrior can tank and play dps, this is not the case in AoC, where only the tank can tank. I'm just a casual player, as a tank I would obviously get groups faster. There any way, perhaps, that a fighter with subspec tank, could actually tank? I know that AoC would allow subspecs to be changed... I just don't have the time to play two classes. Or maybe the tank pvp is also great fun, then it would not really matter?

[@ZybakTV]

We don't really know enough about the multi-classing system to say for sure but I doubt you'll be able to main tank as a secondary class tank. You might be able to be an off-tank or some sort of utility style off-tank though.

[@ght405]

the basic attack looks like it might feel weird this is without having any hands on xp with it

[@BigSteelThrill]

Played a lot of fighter all summer long. It has a bit too much mobility. Otherwise I like it very much so. Maining a tank currently.

[@ven3558]

yo stance swapping and technical combat??? fighter looking like the main archetype for me now i just wanna see how each other 2nd archetype impacts the main one, the amount of decision making in just a single archetype already seems huge, add a 2nd one and the possibilities are gonna be endless only problem is that i hope not too many are gonna be useless due to meta

[@trikkimick]

12 minutes in, hardly anything said but Wildstar and skill ceiling…

[@ZybakTV]

I love to yap about MMORPGs

[@RxBriggs]

The regenerative form of Celerity (Green form) Just feels fkn awful and needs buffed.

[@andorandor5462]

Here I was thinking you're only going to say good things about the class where there are plenty of bad things to say as well and you did at the end but you've missed some. I've actually made a complaint about that silly Lunging Assault ability which targets nothing and the chance to miss a moving target is like 90% while also wasting your momentum. Let's compare a few things. 1. Wound de-buff AOC, you need to struggle to apply 10 of those stacks to a moving target to get the full benefit which can be a real pain. WoW had no stacks. 2. All other de-buffs duration is also very low, half of what it is in WoW Wotlk which makes them very ineffective 3. Leap Strike - not as bad as lunging assault but still not very good either, the range is nice but that's pretty much it, the cast time is to long which makes the ability fail at times, the landing zone which you have to aim with your RAT atm is very buggy in the way that the ability doesn t accept any type of terrain especially at higher elevation or building and waste time trying to use an ability that fails. 4. Whirlwind - 30% damage is way too low for this ability - WoW Wotlk Bladestorm having Full 100% damage. Not only the damage is too low but they made it so that if you double tap the ability it will stop, which goes by itself to say that it's a poor design which causes you to stop a valuable ability by mistake. 5. Not enough cc. I know it's early but having only 1 stun is just lame. I know there's also the slap thingy that puts the target in 5m range to sleep but that one is not very effective, warriors should not have sleep CC, it's just not appropriate. But considering there's no "fear cc" or any other similar CCs in this game we'll have to make due. 6. The Forms of the Fighter are pretty nonsense, they force the player to be dependent on them so that they can either choose "stun" "bleed" or to apply "shaken" which not sure why you would. Bleed is a requirement for hemorrhage which is nice but not that important atm. 7. Momentum generation and depletion: 1. Momentum drains to fast while out of combat but also I've noticed that for ex. when using Whirlwind without the weapon speed increase you can spin around for an extremely long period of time even infinite as long as you are hitting at least 2 targets but when you invest in the attack speed weapon talent which is not even that much 15% I believe, your Whirlwind despite doing damage faster it eats up the momentum really quick(I believe there's a miss calculation in the formula there) 2. Atm. there are no abilities that generate momentum over time but only a few damage abilities that also award some momentum on the side. 3. Taking damage does not grant momentum - IT SHOULD 4. The only way to remove CC atm is with Berserk and to be able to use it you need momentum and since you don't generate momentum while being hit, it is useless if you get CC at the start of the fight. Ways to generate momentum should include: auto-attack damage, taking damage, ability that regenerates momentum over time, ability that instantly gives a small percentage of momentum, talent that reduces the amount of momentum spent or drained while not attacking.

[@MercurialDecree]

I like some of your tales but a ranged exicute would be infuriating to play against. Also i dont think apending moment has to be completely utility based

[@sugarfree5055]

what about whirlwind? Evry fighter i see uses whirlwind, wich also spends momentum and extends the whirlwind, u basically spin forever and deal alot of dmg

[@ZybakTV]

It definitely is good for AoE farming and leveling but I'm not sure how versatile it'll be for PvP. It really just depends on how the talent trees look and if we have spare points to pick it up. Whirlwind is definitely very situational because it requires clumped targets and locks you out of the utility elements of the class while you're spinning.

[@RxBriggs]

@@ZybakTV It makes you immune to hard cc which is very nice

[@veeshan222]

I typical play ranged dps however i too went randomly to try fighter out and now im like ohh what do i play phase 2 now as the main character fighter or ranger haha, Ranger kit a bit disjointed atm where fighter kit works so well with itself You can get some funny escapes as a fighter too was jumped by somone twice my level and i charge low level mob execute for heal and reset CD on charge and then charge next one and u be like fk this im out :P stupid lvl 20 tried ganking my lvl 11 fighter :P i have been doing a 1h mace fighter with a focus in offhand cause stagger on auto attack for the trip but as i leveled i got the form that did that on my overpower or what not but just kept rolling with the mace to try it out still it does the same if not more dmg than a 2h weapon lol

[@AOC_Cultist]

Just believe in Steven!! We need the word of gospel from Steven the Savior of MMORPG genre!! Steven will cleanse the sins of the MMORPG genre!! Just believe in his prophecy!! On his visions!! Ashes of Creation.. The perfect MMO of all time!! The next standard!! The next big thing!! The revolutionary of the genre!! The savior of the genre!! The game that was promised!! The advance mmo!! The perfect upcoming!! The prophecy!! The game that will be loved!!

[@Pokephantom]

You keep seducing me... How do I let Steven know if I buy this next year it's because of you?

[@Kyosuke700]

yo yo yo

[@Ranziel1]

Melee brawlers are really weak in PvP in these tab-target games. Nobody wants to be Mage/Ranger food.

[@Xceedpvp]

Yeah tab target is rough for meele in every game that's why I don't play tab target games for more than a couple months.

[@Tricksteeer]

That is why most of us asked for an action combat system similar to ESO where we dominated the battlefield with brawler melee dps focused ballgroups. There is nothing better than skullpiling entire hordes with a ~10 ppl group.... but ppl are coming from wow carebear pvp and not Lineage 2, so they have no clue on what open pvp / pk looks like :)))))

[@nobleneckbeard7356]

Bald