Is This $250 Million Selfie Spot Dangerous?

[@gabsofine]

Well as someone who does almost everything alone I can definitely say there is nothing life affirming about "you aren't allowed to come here by yourself, you little freaky liability"

[@joanbennettnyc]

When they had that limitation in place, they just told you to ask if you could join a group or another single person. It was bogus from the start.

[@WouldntULikeToKnow.]

I, too, do most things by myself. I wouldn't like the reminder of that. Take care

[@ettaz]

I recently divorced and in the process lost most of my friend group. I too, do things alone all the time. Hang in there.

[@kikicogger2284]

That is a very good point. Not to mention it’s super easy for someone to sneak unnoticed into a crowd of people so they are “in a group.”

[@sythiadawn]

The 14 yr old was with his family. Being part of a group isn't going to stop you if you are determined. Especially if you don't feel like part of the group.

[@dundasqueen]

As someone who was on her way to commit suicide by jumping off a tall bridge at 1 am in my twenties, I can state that my life had been saved by a newly constructed suicide barrier on that bridge. I remember being frustrated that it was there at the time, preventing me from jumping, but I did turn around and go home. I'm 40 now and am so, so happy to be alive.

[@shannono8397]

I am so thankful for the barrier, and very glad you went home :) Sending love from Vermont

[@WouldntULikeToKnow.]

Glad you're doing ok now! Take care

[@someguitarphreak]

I'm really happy that you're here

[@fantasticbeck3938]

Glad to hear it. Take care out there

[@almonjoinye]

Glad you're still here ♡

[@jennifersouthee5947]

I visited the Vessel in 2020 with a bachelorette party, and as someone who has struggled with suicidal thoughts, I thought about what a "good" place this would be to jump from as I ascended. It was so obvious that it would happen. It was a great view but nerve-wracking at the same time, especially when you have the impulse to self-harm.

[@bastetlxix9251]

I truly hope you are in a better mind set! I know it's hard sometimes. Hugs!

[@jennifersouthee5947]

@Amy Smith thank you, I am 💕

[@holothewisewolf2579]

On a sort-of funny note: We gotta be real, we always ruin scenic shit

[@bastetlxix9251]

@@holothewisewolf2579 I don't mind ruining it for myself but I refuse to ruin it for others. I don't like harshing someone else's mellow.

[@Gnomereginam]

For me the Vessel also seems like a perfect depression-booster. It's like a metaphor for how unfair life is. You climb a bunch of stairs to find only empty platforms, nothing to do except gaze at the skyscrapers all around you, where people can get much higher than you with the press of a button.

[@Popsickle24680]

Reminds me of a story I heard about a man planning to commit suicide at the Price Edward Viaduct in Toronto. He arrived at the bridge and became frustrated when he encountered the suicide prevention barriers at that bridge. He realized there was another bridge high enough for a deadly jump not too far. But in the ten minutes it took for him to get on the bus and to the location, the desire to jump had completely faded. It's important to remember a key factor about suicide (that was sort of described in this video but I felt this particular description would contribute something). I myself am lucky enough to have never attempted suicide - however many, many people have described it by one word - a trance. It isn't as simple as "my life sucks, I wanna die". It's a complex, deeply powerful, railroad state of mind that occurs at the very bottom of the pit of depression, but is even more complex and forceful than the mental illness of depression itself. What these barriers do is create an opportunity for those attempting suicide to break out of that trance. It can sometimes be just as easy as putting something physical in the way, to interrupt the trance and give the person a second chance.

[@lizapest8518]

I love the luminous veil that was erected on the viaduct. The lights at night glow and remind me that in a large city there are people who care about beauty and care about those who no longer can care about themselves.

[@SoundShinobiYuki]

I can't cite the exact book, but barriers- even psychological ones- do indeed work. It was in some sort of self-care book I was reading as a teenager, and it had a section on, well, suicide. It stated at one point in the book, that "90% of those who are suicidal that are kept from being able to commit suicide at the point of crisis (the "I'm gonna jump!" moment) for more than 15 minutes, do not continue to try again." A barrier that makes you have to find a new spot- or put a large physical effort to get there- is one of those things. It's also one of the reasons that people will rarely take their life if they have *anybody* to talk to at the spot when considering it (the reason for those help lines that have sprung up at a lot of hotspots). It even said that under "if you feel suicidal": "Wait for 15 minutes. Call anybody who will answer."

[@kristenmoonrise]

Wow. Thanks for sharing. I've also never had these thoughts but categorizing it as a "trance" seems like it would be accurate. I researched an article on the last suicide on this structure, and it was a 14-year old boy who although had suffered with depression and attempted suicide before, was happy, jovial, laughing, and playing with his sister just moments before jumping.

[@authornmalone]

As someone who has attempted suicide, I can agree entirely with the trance mindset. Your head circles the same negative thoughts, you cannot escape them, you cannot ignore them. You are locked and focused on that one thing, escaping your life by whatever means it is you have fixated on. Be that jumping, or in my case, taking pills and doing the old wrist slice. All it takes is something to snap you out to save a life. For me it was the realisation that I didn't have enough pills and would have to go buy more. And here I am, 13 years later.

[@aidanderson53X]

I mean maybe just maybe if we solved the housing issue in New York rather than throwing 200 million at some bullshit the people might not want to kill themselves since they can afford rent.

[@minicat3640]

Theres a reason rooftops are almost always set up with alarmed doors. People are troubled, and l'appel du vide is real. I think "the vessel" should have a garden in the middle, with trees and vines giving the viewer something beautiful to focus on.

[@ED-es2qv]

Shade all day not a problem? You think someone gets there to kill themselves but would be distracted by a bush? There were probably bushes on the way over there.

[@ovni2295]

@@ED-es2qv Well, if anything, falling into bushes and trees is likely to be less fatal.

[@AquilaLupus9]

This was one of Caitlin's suggestion because it has shown to work.

[@pjano476]

As someone who definitely associates color (or lack thereof) with depression, yes to this! I don’t think I could handle living in city with such an overall grayness to it. I would take a real jungle over a concrete jungle anytime!

[@ianmacfarlane1241]

@MiniCat Someone who's determined to end their life isn't going to be put off by a garden. It might stop someone who has a spontaneous urge*, but someone who's at the end of their tether needs more than a pleasant view to stop them. I don't know why the architects couldn't have installed glass barriers on every level, and on the inside and outside. It wouldn't have altered the aesthetics in any meaningful way. People would argue that it'd be expensive, but it already cost $250m - I can't imagine safety glass would change the budget too much. ($250m was a made up number anyway - I'd be very surprised if that cost more than $10 - $15m m to build). Having said that, barrier or beautiful garden, it's going to be impossible to say how many suicides would be prevented and how many simply did the deed elsewhere. *Clearly saving the life of someone who has a spontaneous urge is worthwhile - wasn't suggesting otherwise.

[@goldenn819]

As a person who climbed this with my family during the depths of my depression, I was no more in awe than I was in fear. I saw this building as pointless and gaudy, surrounded by expensive shopping centers. The art was lost on the fear. I saw NYC, beautiful, empty, and a line of disabled people waiting for the elevators at the bottom. Beauty and Safety are not mutually exclusive

[@Lucien86]

Its like something in the designers heads subconsciously made them create something where the whole aesthetic depended on an open empty shape. Without thinking about how that might appeal to people contemplating suicide.. With all the super rich shops around it as well it would almost turn that suicide itself into art. And it looks totally impossible to fix without destroying the original aesthetic completely.. May need a complete new redesign.

[@dianeridley9804]

Yep-- the number of stairs is my barrier

[@violetorange]

your observation of the disabled lining up is heartbreaking - I don't think making the structure wheelchair accessible would have been that hard. Maybe the stairs are part of the "vision" of climbing, but just switching some for ramps or finding ways to incorporate both would have been a powerful gesture, especially when they were praising this thing and imagining it to be a landmark. I have a disabled friend who has opened my eyes on the many, many obstacles, big and small, she faces when she uses her wheelchair - it must be so frustrating.

[@barbarahouk1983]

It's a form of snobbery on the part of the architect. I would guess he Never had a sick day in his life. I have met some of these snobs and found them to actually express their contempt for those less than perfect health. They certainly do not go with the concept in the Declaration of Independence: all mankind equal under the law.

[@lennic95]

@@violetorange I dont know that it could’ve been designed to be particularly accessible. It’s built on such an ableist philosophical foundation to begin with… The whole notion of walking making someone a true citizen and a lot at that is so incredibly blind to the huge percentage of the population that cannot walk a lot. Ramps at those angles would require an incredibly strong and energetic person in a manual wheelchair and an electric one would lose charge before it even got half way up. Basically, this whole thing makes me angry and this is just one discriminatory aspect of the wasp’s nest.

[@myettechase]

Another place in NYC that logically *could* be a suicide hotspot is the High Line…but it isn’t. Not only are there barriers, but there are beautiful gardens between the barriers and the main walkway. In order to get to the edge, you’d have to diverge from the path and trample over flowers- not only would that take more effort that simply wandering over, but it would attract considerable attention from other people and motivate them to intervene.

[@annaconigliaro2907]

THIS!

[@taylorg1585]

The High Line is not near high enough to jump from. Most of it is MAYBE three stories.

[@RealElongatedMuskrat]

@@taylorg1585 you can definitely die from 3 stories, even 2 if you tip head first.

[@christiamark9184]

@@taylorg1585 I'm a trauma nurse, you can die from a ground level fall if done right. Jumping off your single story house can kill many people.

[@classicambo9781]

@@christiamark9184 the most bizarre suicide I attended in terms of implausability was a psychiatric unit where a young man climbed up his wardrobe and swan dived head first into the ground. It wasn't more than 2 metres when you consider the curve he would have to have been in between the roof and wardrobe but the impact shattered his cervical vertebra and the time lost by staff in not giving adequate respirations meant he was vegetative and taken off life support 4 days later.

[@asimplecabbage6694]

Bringing up the statistic about how 9/10 people who attempt suicide but do not succeed don't end up dying by suicide at a later date was incredibly impactful. All the statistics I've been told, and I've never heard that one before. It makes me feel better than anything else I've ever been told. It makes me feel so hopeful. I always used to think I'd end up being just another statistic, but maybe now, this is the kind of statistic I can be instead.

[@Guineapigsreadingbooks]

Hey. I Hope you are Doing well. As a suicide survivor, I have the strong belief that the body has a fail safe if you just want escape and not die. I never wanted to die, I just wanted to escape the unrelenting torment of existing. I tried to die three times. Each time, I waited desperately for a sign of hope before. And each time, I asked for help when I realized it wouldn’t work. The small part of me, invisible in all the desperation, that loved life and had hope, preserved my life. The last attempt was in 2020. Since then, I have gotten a lot better. I am no longer in the midst of addiction, I am living a life that is tolerable to good, I have joy in my life. My worst days went from trying to end myself, to being curled up in bed watching romcoms. And the best days went from days I could almost breathe to days full of joy in the little things in life, spent with people I love, feeling happier than I could ever imagine. If even a small part of you wants to live, you will live. If there is a possibility of hope left in you, that will prevail.

[@NA-AN]

I don’t know what to say, I guess I’m just so happy for you guys. Keep strong and rock on.

[@jadamcquarrie4509]

​@@Guineapigsreadingbooks I know for me I had attempted in a way that caused me to have time to struggle and get out. The second my body was under risk, I started fighting for myself. And I haven't tried since, (partially because I have a cat now 🥰)

[@VoMFilms]

The impulse is so true. I remember trying to get onto the railway tracks once. I said to myself, if that gate is unlocked, im gonna do it. Kicked it and it was well locked. So I walked on and saw an eel, cried a bit and decided I wanted to see more eels and lovely creeks and went home. When im that depressed im not gonna climb anything.

i cried when i saw that eel as well.

[@gwendalynnwatkins1296]

I think people fail to realize that someone in that state isn't thinking about anything else They've done all of their planning at that point and it their one plan goes wrong, they're just going to leave because they won't have the mental energy to come up with a whole new plan

[@Livingdgurl]

Glad that you're still alive and well! ❤️ Hope you continue to see beautiful eels and life in this world!

@@Livingdgurl you had me at eels..

[@WhoAmEye_WhoAreEwe]

@ said - ".....@Anna Fike you had me at eels......" kzbin.info/www/bejne/jGPcqmRqZtZrfrM

[@brushdogart]

As someone who lived in New York I felt that the public art in front of a business was a statement of how that business felt about the common New Yorker. Some were friendly and colorful, or even useful (usually artistic benches). A personal favorite was a huge spiky metal ball that in summer would spray water out the tips of its spikes so it looked like a giant dandelion puff. The kids loved that one and the water mist was so nice on hot days. Some even have interactive art that plays music or other fun activities. With that in mind it doesn't surprise me that New Yorkers would hate a piece like this. To them this would make quite a statement about how the complex feels about the average New Yorker. "We won't let you into our overpriced private community so here, have a sculpture that represents the empty grind of your pathetic lives." The shear emptiness of the interior is overwhelming. It is a climb with no real purpose or even much of a reward (you know, if I wanted a view from 10 stories up I could have just gone into any building). I'm only surprised that it hasn't been vandalized yet.

[@idigamstudios7463]

Oh! We have a structure like that in Loring Park, it's a fountain and a bit of an architectural icon.

[@MaryAnnNytowl]

One could say that about any hike to the top of any hill or mountain, as well, but... one doesn't. So, maybe it doesn't make much sense.

[@nadamas4954]

Well said. Accurate.

[@Elspm]

@@MaryAnnNytowl not "any" hill or mountain. In my city (glasgow, Scotland) there're only a couple of hills I'm gonnae climb for the view alone. The others I climb to get into a building or for the pleasant experience - but if there was a shitty little one with nothing to see at the top, no lovely sights/sounds/smells on the way AND no functional reason to be there? Nah, I'll just stay on the ground, thanks.

[@moonstruck8245]

Absolutely agree. It's ugly and pointless and the way that it leads to nothing and is circular and probably exhausting to climb, all for no reward at the top except the view of a place you can never afford to live, makes it feel incredibly hostile to me.

[@TimeBucks]

The library example is brilliant

[@divyendupraveenkumar7490]

DO NOT POST ANY REPLY!DO NOT MENTION ANYTHING ABOUT TIMEBUCKS OR I WILL REJECT YOUR SUBMISSION,JUST THUMBS UP AND THAT'S IT

[@Falhaes]

Caitlin, I can't express enough how helpful the statistic about "instant regret" for me was. It should be blasted from all places on the internet that deal with death or suicides. Jeez, it should be taught in schools.

[@WhiteRabbit-]

I've watched this video several times and will probably watch it several more. I've also since looked at the study she quoted and several others that show regret after attempted suicide and how people often don't go on to attempt again. It's really changed my perspective. Another reason is because at the beginning of the video, the warning somehow made me feel better. It's validating, and non-judgemental, and personally made me feel like "actually yeah I do feel ok to watch this". She's so comforting in so many ways.

[@Falhaes]

@@WhiteRabbit- this! this this this this. Caitlin is the Mom we all deserve and I, for one, am a proud Caitling.

[@lvl10cooking]

Can confirm. I botched mine. The panic and regret after I pulled the trigger was… yeah…

[@Falhaes]

@@lvl10cooking oh my. Hugs, should you want some.

[@lvl10cooking]

@@Falhaes it was yeeeeears ago. But the regret is still palpable to this day.

[@jannettb7930]

If they can design hostile architecture preventing people from laying on a bench or sleeping under an overpass and call it 'art', I'm pretty sure they can design some barriers preventing death. They don't care, they are just mad it's messing up their image.

[@NastyWoman1979]

THAT PART!!!!! Probably the most underrated comment!!!

[@cyrilmarasigan7108]

PREACH IT.

[@looksirdroids9134]

Of course they don't care, it doesn't affect them in any meaningful way. No need to state the obvious.

[@lajoswinkler]

Just tell them it negatively impacts the real estate around it and has a burden on making money and they'll fix it right up.

[@FrancesBaconandEggs]

ACCURATE

[@shadowoakmagick]

As someone who works in a suicide prevention and intervention mental health program, this is a major topic that I feel needs to be talked about more often. Thank you so much for bringing such a deep discussion to the surface!

[@WouldntULikeToKnow.]

@don't be surprised stop spamming

[@sandrastreifel6452]

Thank you for your service. Openly discussing topics like this, does combat the stigma which still surrounds mental illness diagnoses.

[@saraa3418]

How do you cope? As the moderator of a large discord server, I've been thrust into multiple discussions with suicidal people and it's so hard. All I can do is convince them to go to sleep and message me in the morning. Then I get them to contact their doctor, a hotline, or just their mother. Thank you for what you do.

[@myjessicajourney1915]

Here as a former NSPL worker to agree.

[@toserveman9265]

Liberalism is a mental illness and goes against human nature

[@abigaillocklear9157]

"It's easy enough to say a space is for everyone when everyone around you is just like you." Well said, absolutely correct.

[@Greg-yu4ij]

Ok, sure, if that’s all the city had. I don’t like the gaudy shops either. However it IS for everyone. It IS unique. The structure IS beautiful (to me). This whole video can be summed up by : it shouldn’t have taken four deaths, of kids, to install temporary nets. They are so pompous as to ignore the deaths like the problem itself won’t be fixed because they command it. I can’t climb the structure, but I aspire to. When I do, it will ruin the experience if I see suicide reminders and high rails all about. By the time my health is good enough to get down there, I expect to see an integrated suicide prevention system that does not impair the experience in the least. That aluminum monstrosity in the library is awful. I am an engineer and can think of systems completely hidden. We are New Yorkers and we can do better.

[@AgentWest]

@@Greg-yu4ij I agree about those barriers at the library, looks like static on an old tv, not the 'digital waterfall' as they call it. How would you solve the issue though? You said you can think of something that's hidden, what would it be?

[@citizenkane2349]

That's why melting pots are bad ideas.

[@kashiichan]

"The responsibility is largely left to the Vessel's creators." There's a reason why people say that safety regulations are written in blood.

[@blooperofahuman1706]

Yeah as someone who was suicidal for much of my teenage and young adult life, the vessel looks like a depressing dystopian hellscape. Stairs to nowhere, outwardly gilded in copper and gold with an internal look of dead end office stairways all surrounded by overpriced luxury shops meant to gouge every cent possible out of you? That would drain the zest of life out of anyone

[@notthis.mp3]

as someone who struggles with depression, I can confidently say that ive never felt more hopeless or empty than when I find myself in these kinds of neighborhoods / outside malls for the super rich. these places and structures look exactly the same in every city. its the opposite of life affirming. give me gardens, child friendly spaces, bodegas, seating, free to use spaces with not cartier or Chanel shop in sight

[@azlizzie]

This is a good point. The surrounding opulence is not an ideal reminder that your life is or can be good for most of the population.

[@countryrat6t6]

Right? And they talk about the place as if living in NYC/Manhattan doesn't already put everything at your fingertips. Like... what I LOVE about big cities is the fact that you can step out side and there are restaurants and shops and parks and museums all within a 15 minute stroll. And if it's not that close, it's a 10 minute ride on public transit. People like these obscenely rich dudes are what is ruining cities like NYC. Making it a place that isn't accessible or enjoyable to the masses. They already have 5th ave or whatever and the whole area surrounding Central Park as a rich man's playground. What do they need with this Hudson Yards nonsense.

[@ninasaunders5106]

That is such a valid point! Then you look at the age of the suicides, when life feels like it's now or never, it's just a recipe for implusive jumps 😢

[@agapelovepietas]

Exactly! It just makes me feel even more isolated and less than. It's a big divider on society.

[@sheilatakeabow1990]

I was very lucky and grew up in semi rural England- close to the city, but I lived right next to fields and nature reserves and the canal we all walked along as kids. I can honestly say I feel so much more content here than anywhere else- when I went to London a while ago I was surprised how relieved I was to be at home somewhere that had a lot more nature and community. I can see why people living in the city are so lonely sometimes (but then I’m sure some would say the same in reverse!)

[@MikinessAnalog]

"Good intentions do not inoculate you from criticism" I'm so stealing that Ms. Doughty

[@blushface]

the fact a young child committed while going WITH his family is what really gets me.

[@Gjergji311]

“We didn’t want to design in fear,” so we designed in recklessness instead. Brilliant.

[@NYCgirl927]

Billionaire smack talk.

[@CandyKoRn]

It's kind of sad that things like this can't exist because there are people wanting to jump off of them.

[@Jessa-RM]

LOL well said

[@stephanymurdy3165]

Well said…

[@1n5tant_Ar50n]

@@CandyKoRn True, but it's even sadder that there are people every day who are looking for something to jump off of... :(

[@natalielloyd9200]

I lost one of my oldest friends to suicide in 2018. He was due to see me weeks before and cancelled last minute. He jumped. I still haven't processed it fully and I think about him EVERY day. Caitlin, this video is the first time I've fought past the urge to AVOID ALL MENTIONS OF SUICIDE. I watched this because I trust you. Thank you for coming true. It has helped me SO much just by starting a conversation in my brain that I should've allowed myself to have a while ago. THANK YOU.

[@skunkrat01]

I'm so sorry for your loss. I think it was really brave of you to speak your mind in a public forum and it sounds like the video helped, so I'm really glad for you.

[@chaliceflower]

How are you?

[@AngelusaNobilis]

You've reached a grief milestone. Congratulations and please know I'm sending you love because grief milestones are painful sometimes. I'm sorry for your loss, truly sorry.

[@jenelaina5665]

I'm so, so sorry for your loss. And I'm glad you can begin to process and that this helped with that. Random internet stranger but you'll be in my thoughts.

[@Bakednotfryd]

I'm sorry for your loss

[@fluuufffffy1514]

As a designer, my take is that the firm's unwillingness to rework the Vessel is kind of intellectual laziness. Stubbornness in design is not sexy. Refusing to rework or rethink when faced with a flaw is not good designing.

[@CatBarefield]

Exactly!

[@Grapefruit_cosplay]

Yes. This is a failure of our profession. Architecture should be built to serve, not to harm.

[@PixieoftheWood]

Also, they talk about how building higher railings 'takes away from the experience', but honestly, I'd enjoy it more if I felt safe. I think having such a low railing so high up would leave me terrified that I'd somehow trip and tip over the edge that I couldn't even enjoy the view. What I'd prefer? A giant design like that, only instead of open air, it's all clear tubes, like those tunnels that go through aquariums so you can see all the fish from underneath.

[@dreamofwings]

It seems like there's a certain sect of high concept designers that are so locked into their artistic vision they refuse to compromise it with the real world necessity to acknowledge human nature. Which works great for thinkmag concept pieces but always revels it's shortcomings in the real world. Good design works WITH human nature in mind, not in resistance to it.

[@JohnG-gy3st]

yes i agree theory is dangerous some times but so is life. that's Nature's law. sometimes designers can create a perfect house to die in which should be examined and talked about. I don't care for the vessel for monetary reason, but to make everything safe is exhausting. lighten up.

[@Furball891]

I remember reading about the instant regret people who survived jumping the bridge had felt. They described that those fleeting few seconds on the way down were so long, that they realized that whatever was haunting them was not worth such a permanent solution, and on the way down they had suddenly thought about so many other ways to work around or alleviate their problems. That is both very important, and very haunting to know. How quickly human mind is capable of changing so fast when they are pushed into a situation where the choice is taken away. They made the choice to jump, but once they made it, there was no taking it back. And to think that so many of them had that regret, but didn't survive. It really makes you think.

[@ameliaedwards5817]

I love how the people running the library addressed the safety issue. It's functional and beautiful. I've never understood why safety and accessibility is not more widely seen as an inspiring aesthetic challenge instead of something to sulkily tack on after the fact when someone *foreseeably* complains. There's not much of a reasonable excuse for new construction to fail so consistently in this way.

[@vmorning3506]

cost

[@WhitneyDahlin]

I see what you mean but these people aren't dying in accidents. They are purposefully jumping. Do you know how many people k*ll themselves by hanging every year? According to your logic is it the rope manufacturer's fault? Is it the stores fault for making rope so accessible? No it isn't. We are all responsible for our own actions. It isn't the designer's fault. It isn't the cities fault. If someone decides they're going to d*e then that is their choice. People have the literal human RIGHT to do what they want their own bodies and it is not up to you or me or anyone else to try to control that . I believe we all have the right to choose to d*e. People who don't think so are people who have never truly experienced the true depth of suffering possible. There are some things so terrible that cause so much mental distress and suffering that there is no possible happiness that exists in life to outweigh it. If anything it's the federal government and the insurance companies fault for basically closing down all long term free mental health institutions. We need to reopen state/federal run long term mental health hospitals.

[@robertawalsh2995]

@@vmorning3506 Arrogance

[@vdavis4785]

@@vmorning3506 There is no reason why safety and accessibility can't be part of the initial design and construction.

[@vdavis4785]

@@WhitneyDahlin You need to watch the video again. Perhaps educating yourself about depression would help too.

[@ladygrey4113]

So I’m an engineer and as of 2010 most engineering colleges have required ethics courses and it was hammered into my class that our responsibilities as professionals go beyond just the construction and we can let our biases come through our designs even if we didn’t notice it.

[@WouldntULikeToKnow.]

@don't be surprised stop spamming. This isn't the place for your crap.

[@rebeccan7276]

this 'building' is basically a case study in failed design ethics, I hope it ends up in textbooks

[@juliecampbell860]

As someone who got a degree that was associated with an engineering college, we not only had a required ethics course but a course dedicated to looking at man made disasters/accidents and analyzing why those disasters/accidents happened and what was put into place to prevent those things from happening again. Seems like the designer of the Vessel could benefit from taking that course.

[@griffenspellblade3563]

@@juliecampbell860 It depends. I used to work in nuclear power and the one thing hammered was procedural complacence. This was done by telling many horror stories about bad QA and QC. It was done by hammering every rule violation. With most buildings being a static thing, what process concerns could you have beyond verifying that the actual structure meets the blueprint in all respects?

[@kikicogger2284]

@@griffenspellblade3563 Most people (I would hope) would understand that creating an installation that tall might attract those who want to end their life, and it should be considered. Not to mention with how low these railings actually are, it poses other safety risks as well. All it would take is one kid climbing on the railing while their parent was distracted to have a tragic accident.

[@SewerKid1]

Against the warnings at the start of the video, I decided to watch while feeling/thinking very intently about suicide. Everything you do is interesting to me and I can't hold back my curiosity for long. So even with the warning and knowing today I was feeling very "intensely" about it, I wanted to stick around. Learning about the instant regret experienced by the Golden Gate survivors was so sobering and grounding, and gave credence to the little part of myself that knows I want to be alive. Suddenly I don't feel like digging deeper into those thoughts. Thank you for everything you do.

[@humblesparrow]

Please accept my love and best wishes! You deserve relief. I hope the resources Caitlin posted can provide you the support you need.

[@jamierupert7563]

Think of those you'd leave behind. Please don't do anything to harm yourself. Don't be selfish. Just give it 1 second, 1 minute, 1 hour, 1 day, 1 week, 1 month, 1 year at a time, and you'll see that you can make it. You truly will. Here's some love for you from a complete stranger. ❤️

[@BlancheNeigefan]

You seem like a kind person, taking the time to mention how this helped you in spite of everything you're going through! Best wishes!

[@Teverell]

*hugs* hang in there. It will get better, you've got people who care about you. And just know this: you're beautiful and worth so much more than you maybe know right now.

[@bushelandpeck1501]

Jesus loves you very very much, infact, enough to die for you! God Bless & take good care of your precious self.

[@VinnyCM64]

I feel that The Vessel, says a lot about how out-of-touch the insanely wealthy can be. I don't know much about architecture, but I have a bachelor's in art; accessibility, safety, and such were always things that I was told to keep in mind. In my personal opinion, you fail as an artist when you use the excuse of "beauty" to ignore making things accessible and safe.

[@linasayshush]

Exactly. The fact that they never considered that if you make a tall thing, people *will* jump off it it the most telling part of this.

[@jadedone6900]

Your phrase "out-of-touch the insanely wealthy can be" speaks such volumes on a lot of what's wrong with our society right now. I couldn't help but notice that every key person involved in this project was a rich, white man.

[@catbirdler]

@@jadedone6900 And if the key persons involved were rich black men, would it have made a difference? What is your point?

[@carlossp1759]

Putting higher barriers won’t change why these people are miserable. Do you want to prevent more deaths? How about banning mind-altering substances like alcohol, weed, cigarettes, caffeine, opioids, and useless medications that only worsen mental illness? But you guys love those drugs too much. Maybe that is why you are so easily controllable.

[@pisces2569]

@@carlossp1759 it won’t change why they’re miserable but it will stop them from killing themselves. As explained in this video, evidence states that suicide is impulsive and people who are stopped by barriers often turn around and go home rather than find another way to mill themselves. Also simply banning those substances doesn’t work either. Better and affordable mental health facilities, treating addiction as a health crisis and not a crime, getting rid of the stigma against mental health and suicide, and universal health care will help

[@nocomment2468]

As a life-long NYer, I can say definitely that what people need from urban planners are more safe and happy places for community interaction. Mental illness was already rampant a few years back, but since the pandemic it has become overwhelming. People are lonely and desperate, driven to commit violence acts against themselves and others. I see it pretty often. People need an accessible place with, idk, maybe some trees and child-friendly structures, a place that is a foil to the grim stress of daily urban life. While this structure might be cool to explore, it is truly the antithesis of what would benefit the majority of citizens of NYC. It makes me mad.

[@dortesandal4303]

I agree with you - this thing is not about the quality of life for the masses but a cornicopia for the wealthiest - that All of a sudden realized "that one Day we are all gonna die... - including Them", it is a legacy I Guess!? Much big Bird your way my Friend.

[@nocomment2468]

@@dortesandal4303 exactly. It’s the hypocrisy and condescending remarks of those behind the project that are so infuriating.

[@MsJerrySparkle]

YES it needs to be replaced with a park. billionaires are fucking lizards who dont understand normal people.

[@dortesandal4303]

@@nocomment2468 I know, but they do not realize it, only a few, very, very few feel the neccesity, urgent as it is, to step Up, with and for All of us. And they have to be careful...as the old saying goes - it is freezing Cold at the top, you conscend or you die!! More Big Bird or not my Friend.

[@mossthatrules77]

Why do you pay so much money to live in such a miserable city

[@Oozes_Dark]

As an engineering student who talks a lot about engineering ethics, I can say it’s the designer’s responsibility to consider all possible misuses of the design and do their best to prevent it. Glass walls wouldn’t have been difficult or out of budget.

[@FUnzzies1]

As a student, you are out of your depth.

[@cogsandglimmers]

@@FUnzzies1 And what do you know to argue that? Are you going to an engineering school? Do you know any specifics on the ethics of engineering? Blocking out conversation isn't helping anything.

[@ACare15]

I agree that it is the designer's responsibility to consider all possible misuses, especially as the possible "misuse" that could occur with the Vessel were not unknown. And not only by the designer but then by everybody else around that conference table discussing the creation.

[@missberry5941]

I'm not engineering student or anything but I like art. Glass windows that are slatened like vent on each cell would was my first thought. I believe they wanted to keep the air flow. the flow of the building would be the only reason I could think they didn't even put it in a glass box that touch just the edges if the structure. Like they did with the model. As someone who has stood at the bottom of a bridge that had a low barriers for days, my heart bleeds for those who couldn't walk away. I 100% agree with you.

[@hannahckirk]

@@FUnzzies1 man come on. That was so unnecessary to say.

[@plainsalt]

As a tall person (who is afraid of heights but still regularly tempts them) "waist height" railings always scare me a lot since in my case usually they are lower than my waist and I feel like if anybody accidentally bumped into me or for some reason pushed me I'd be close to falling but even if I didn't i'd definietly get a panic attack.

[@toxicpineapple2610]

You're absolutely right. Railings that don't go higher than your center of gravity are very hazardous.

[@L2615]

I can’t find the article anymore but I once read that this is especially an issue in the Netherlands where people are tall and the regulations on railing heights changing but older buildings being quite dangerous

[@FeralFelineFriend]

Don't forget about the wind! I was knocked off my feet before by a strong gust of wind and that's why I fear the grand canyon and being near the edge of anything.

[@saricella]

heck, I'm 'average' height but proportionally my legs are long so most 'waist height' railings are also short for me! it's quite scary, especially with older railings that are creaky

[@jonathantremaria8579]

I'm not even particularly tall and "waist height" railing scare the crap out of me. I can't really even stand being on the second floor of the local mall because the railings are so low.

[@ryans6363]

"we didn't want to design with fear in mind" is possibly one of the most out of touch things I've ever heard. absolutely wild. He's an architect designing a building intended for public use in NEW YORK CITY and he didn't want to take potential risk into account? change or guillotine.

[@lapsingennui5447]

I was like, "Wow, The Vessel looks a lot like one of the tourist traps on my campus." Turns out Thomas Heatherwick designed our dim sum building as well.

[@someidiot420]

wow, this dude's a menace

[@criminallyautistic8372]

Smfh

[@chrisardern4594]

I think he also designs for car companies as his designs reminds me of a car grill.

[@constancemiller3753]

Looks like it needs an umbrella and swizzle stick.🏝

[@someidiot420]

@@chrisardern4594 it reminds me of that hotel hell episode where the dude was running the most. cold uncomfortable hotel based off of cars. maybe heatherwick's skills wouldve been more useful over there

[@LindsayEllisVids]

was waiting to see if Bobst would make an appearance - I was a freshman when the first two suicides happened. the problem with the plexiglass is it does immediately bring to mind *why* it's been put there in the first place, especially given how tacked on and ugly it was, way more than the aluminum redesign.

[@stubdteauzgautugaux]

Hi

[@lananieves4595]

The nutty thing is, I was at NYU during the early 90s, and this topic was already old as fuck THEN. I like what they eventually did, but why did it take so long?

[@shelleyberry188]

One would think the designers might have taken some cues from all the OTHER buildings and bridges and such that have had constant problems with suicidal situations. If only there were some global interconnected network of computers they could have turned to.

[@lananieves4595]

@@shelleyberry188 - the other thing about Bobst is the gorgeous floor which, from above, is somewhat alluring (for lack of a better word.) I can see someone who is already considering taking that horrible plunge being edged even closer to it by the allure of that amazing floor pattern, which seems to pull one into it. Not to make light of mental illness or suicidal ideation, but there can sometimes be an element of wanting to die in some meaningful or even beautiful way, and be remembered.

[@MrFjordbak]

love your movie essays even if you stopped. hope the best for you

[@shocking1123]

As a New Yorker, as soon as this opened up, I knew there would be people who would use this to... unalive themselves. It was just way too easy. An 8 story tall installation with only waist high barriers? Anyone with more than two braincells could have seen these tragedies coming. I'll never understand why they didn't have taller glass barriers installed in the first place.

[@ava_marie_v]

They had to at least have considering that, even in passing, right? Maybe it's just my own history with depression and ideation talking, but it was one of the first things I thought of when I heard about this structure.

[@itwasagoodideaatthetime7980]

The Sydney Harbour Bridge has high barriers. That curve inwards over the bridges walk way to help prevent people from jumping.

[@CypressJoker]

"It WoUlD CoMpRoMiSe ThE aRt" probably. The same sort of attitude that makes a man believe that THIS thing that HE built would be NY's answer to the fucking Eiffel Tower. Rampant, unrestrained ego.

[@birky0191]

@@ava_marie_v they did they had rails made already but they werent added which was stated by an employee in the video which just makes it worse

[@onethirdofabrain]

I dont see why all the walk ways couldnt be completely enclosed in glass

[@walrus8636]

I am currently in my last year of college as an interior architect designer with a minor in architecture. The statements made by these designers and the measurements they didn’t make within their designs are embarrassing and appalling to me and I know my classmates would feel the same. The way we are taught, or at-least at my university, is that we aren’t designing buildings to look cool or ornate or such, we are designing for people. There is a level of understanding the human brain and how we interact with the world that is needed while designing. We take into considerations such as environmental impact, quality of life impact, how humans function and how we can accommodate but also push people to improve their lives, and much more. We also are taught to design universally so that all people can experience and partake equally, such as having a rose garden in the center of a building so that it helps calms stressed or anxiety induced people but also for people who are blind / low vision so they can find their way through the building. With this we of course also take situations such as this video into deep consideration. Every single thing we design is our doing and if anything happens then it is our fault because we did not take that into consideration or evaluate situations and designs correctly. These famous and older generation designers don’t seem to take everything I’ve said above into consideration because what I’ve been taught was not taught 20 years ago. Older and rich designers seem to design for the looks and the glam and don’t take much else into consideration. We design for looks and for the “aesthetic” as well be that comes after the importance of the human body and how our designs will impact others negatively and positively. How our designs will inspire, support and heal is at the forefront of current design. The design of buildings should live symbiotically with the human body, human experience, and nature and shouldn’t be a separate aspect that negatively impacts its surroundings.

[@splendidcolors]

Yay for discussing Universal Design. The Ed Roberts Center in Berkeley (for disability-related services) has a waterfall at one end as an auditory orientation for Blind people, as one example.

[@medea27]

Frankly, I think Heatherwick's attitude is an insult to architects & designers everywhere... I don't know any architect who would be so dismissive of the risks inherent in a structure like this, especially when there are numerous solutions that could have been incorporated without affecting the aesthetic. There's plenty of big-name architects who lean _very_ heavily towards 'form' rather than 'function' with their designs, but I've never heard one point-blank dismiss a safety issue with a building like that. Appalling.

[@angela.luntian]

At this point it isnt a building. It never should be climbed.

[@annmckee7119]

My cousin was always proud of a design she worked on for furniture in retirement communities, particularly a simple looking chair. Residents wanted to be able to move the chairs but also need the chairs to be stable. Their design was to have casters on only the back legs, since people usually pulled the chairs around by the back but when they sat on it, it didn't shoot out from under them when they pushed up from the seat.

[@spazmonkey3815]

Beautifully stated.

[@lyndaosborn1927]

I'm currently in my final year of architecture school and one of the things that we talk about when discussing code for a building is that it is the bare minimum you have to do. And at my school we always talk about striving to do better than just what the code asks. Not only that but anything that we design to be created is meant to serve others and not ourselves as designers. This video did a really good job of expressing this and how we should always be creating to improve other people's lives and not make it worse.

[@witwicky735]

Lynda, I started architecture and drafting while in Junior High (US 7th grade) and went all the way through the start of University. Nothing like this was ever discussed. I'm certainly glad that doing "more than the minimum" is now part of the design language. I have been weirded-out since standing on a 25-ish story roof and looking over the low knee-height wall at the plaza below while filming an eclipse. It's made me wonder about this ever since when I travel to places like Miami, where you see tiny balconies with a small railing over 30 stories up. It seems to be normal for so many people to live mere inches from such a drop. Has this always been normal? Was the 1950's attitude to safety the way things were seen? ("What they do is up to them, eh. Fuggedaboutit.")

[@flyingdutchman4794]

I had a college friend who took a degree in Architectural Engineering. Every student in her graduating class received an iron ring as a reminder that they have life in their hands. Congratulations in advance and all best hopes for success in life

[@dougspidermanhappy]

@@flyingdutchman4794 what does the iron ring symbolize? Tyia

[@AndyGneiss]

@@dougspidermanhappy For me, a civil engineer, the iron ring (stainless steel in my case), was because I joined the Order of the Engineer and took a vow (the obligation). As engineers, we have an obligation to serve the public good. The obligation is easily found online (so I don't have to copy-paste it here). We wear the ring on the pinky of our writing hand to serve as a reminder of our obligation to the public. I like to think that the ring rests on the page as we write (let's pretend we don't live in the digital age for a moment, hehe).

[@flyingdutchman4794]

@@dougspidermanhappy Elemental iron metal is strong but also brittle; it polishes beautifully but is prone to corrosion. It is a structural metal which also is at the center of human hemoglobin. The symbolism is that iron can produce structures of great strength, but care must be exercised in its use and maintenance. The alchemists also believed that iron could hold evil in abeyance, FWIW

[@wrenross5315]

The part about preventing deaths just by giving architecture a purpose makes me think of the Canadian Museum of Human Rights, a large, open building with long, featureless concrete bridges between sections. It's spacy enough that usually, you (or your group) are usually the only person walking the bridge, and there are no full barriers to prevent people from climbing over and falling. The content of the museum itself is also obviously very sad, and for many visitors, hits close to home. And despite all that, there's never been a suicide attempt there. I've been there a few times and, as somebody with a fear of heights and depression, I feel weirdly safe on those walkways. The designers intended them to be meditative, to give people a break between difficult museum sections and give them space to think about what they've learned, and it works.

[@agerven]

Sounds like a challenging concept, with a positive outcome. But in all cases i think there should be a plan B available right at the start of building, should the original concept not work out. Clearly in many cases, such as the vessel, there is no alternative thought of at all.

[@soleursuelos3616]

I think it's pitiful that we can't have nice things like this. I understand people wanting to protect the vulnerable, but I'd never put the blame on the builder. Ever.

[@clawsproductions582]

@@soleursuelos3616 The blame for their death isn’t on the builder, but it is sort of their responsibility. If you were to build something that people use to off themselves, it’s up to you to put in preventative mesures, even if their deaths weren’t your fault. You can’t really expect (in most, not all) cases that your building is going to be the place people want to die at, but once they do, it’s sort of your duty to put something there to stop other people from deciding that they should do that too.

[@DembaiVT]

It is like that. The walls are thick and grey and you end up staring at them and crying. It does feel safe there. I don't know why.

[@kieleyevatt2232]

I think if one person were to jump, it would start a cascade of events when that news story popped into the head of suicidal people during a time of crisis.

[@sweetjunepea]

I worked in the mall in this area and was present, outside, on the day of one of the suicides. We always asked "Well are they going to add a barrier?" and were flabbergasted when it reopened time and time again with no physical changes to the structure. It's so disrespectful to anyone that had to endure seeing the body-cover up that took place after not to take any action. Additionally they put up these dystopian ads on their screens around the mall asking people to “stay” and seek help. Instead of barriers!

[@mzmoon100]

God, way to make the place warmer and more welcoming (sarcasm) :(

[@mzmoon100]

I'm so sorry to you and all who were affected.

[@deerif]

I have went through Architecture training, and the very first thin that our professors tells us during freshman year, all through our final studio design are: If something where to happen in the spaces you design, it is your responsibility, you hands played a part, and your names are attached to the space. If good things happen in the space, you are allowed to take pride, but if bad things happen it is your responsibility and your fault. As Architecture it truly about creating a container for life and living. If you design floors that are uneven and people trip, your fault. If a todder's head got stuck between railing post that are too widely spaces, your fault. If the barrier you design was too low to safely keep people in, absolutely your fault, your moral responsibility to make corrections where all corrections are possible. I do think designers that refuses to make design alteration to protect lives are Evil. (and when we start talking about inclusive design, we can be here all day and have a thessi by the end of it)

[@natalied110]

To your question about an architect's ethical responsibility: we are responsible. In the AIA Code of Ethics, which are ideals to be followed by all architects or you risk losing your license and ability to practice, architects are required to design for the health, welfare, and safety of occupants. We can't guarantee that someone isn't going to harm themselves or others in a building, but designing the vessel without higher guardrails was a selfish design "decision" for "aesthetics." Although it meets code requirements for it's classification, additional barriers should have been included for public safety.

[@tlowery2074]

On a personal note I also can’t imagine knowing something you helped design became a tool for self harm. Sounds pretty devastating to me.

[@laurenlawson6567]

@Atom I don't get it

[@Platypi007]

@@laurenlawson6567 most likely spam...

[@MLUdrea]

It adheres to code. We're not responsible beyond that. If my design adheres to code and can be constructed-- that's a win for me and my firm. If a person decides to jump from a mansion's balcony because it has railings to code and not something outrageous like 5'-6" instead of 3'-6" it isn't my fault. Same decision here.

[@saltyvdog]

@@MLUdrea that’s why she’s taking about the importance of ethics, way to miss the whole point of the video

[@newtpollution]

The height of the wall around the top level of a parking garage at my college saved my life. At the time, cold and depressed and exhausted, it felt almost humiliating that I couldn't mount the wall, but now I'm just grateful for the impediment. I know for a fact that I'm not the only one on campus stopped by the design either, and that my friends, is good architecture.

[@katherineejessup]

So glad you’re still here 💜

[@kitlee172]

Came to reply the same. ✨💕✨

[@emmy9327]

So happy you are here today & I’m sure your family/friends are too. 💕

[@jessn.2665]

It is tempting when given the opportunity during a rough spot in life. We have to keep others in mind and protect each other.

[@inconnu4961]

@@jessn.2665 But wrapping everyone in bubble wrap is NOT the way to do it! How many potential opportunities were missed to help him BEFORE the thought of suicide became apparent?

[@hippopajamas]

The fact that the architects would rather have the vessel be closed than build safety barriers says everything I need to know about how much they really care about the "community".

[@IntrepidFraidyCat]

Well said! I completely agree with you.

[@flootzavut30daychallenge]

AMEN.

[@hannahbeanies8855]

I’m a suicide attempt survivor. I first planned a suicide attempt when I was 10 or 11. Now I am 31 years old. I still have a safety plan in place. The entire safety plan revolves around making attempts inconvenient. I can you tell you with 100% certainty that placing more obstacles to get over to get to a method of suicide has saved my life. It wasn’t as if it was impossible to do, it just took such effort that I changed my mind before going through. That doesn’t always work, but I will say according to some other comments on here, this method has indeed saved more than a few lives.

[@dirtyfiendswithneedles3111]

I’m so glad that you have plans that delay you long enough to use your brain.

[@amherst88]

Such an irony that you are identified with a 'death culture' since your videos are often the most thoughtful and life-affirming things out there -- kudos to everyone involved in their production ❤️

[@amandanic5998]

I work at one of the retail locations here. I have so many coworkers who actually witnessed this and, although I didn’t, I was working when two of the four tragedies happened. We all were hoping that it would become a closed structure, but the fact that they denied that is just more evidence that they only care about the rich people who live there, not the tourists and definitely not the employees either. So many retail workers, maintenance staff, and food service workers had to witness these events and there was little to no sympathy from Hudson Yards. Also thank you for bringing up the accessibility issue!! That was the reason why I never visited even before I worked there; I have a lot of mobility issues and digestive issues that feed off each other (no pun intended), so it never seemed like it was for me in the first place. And now I’m ABSOLUTELY not going to pay $10 to ride in an elevator.

[@lananieves4595]

Your post brings up another really important issue: every person who witnesses a suicide or attempted suicide is going to experience trauma. I cannot imagine anyone witnessing such a thing could escape being traumatized. The more I think about it, the more I feel like every person keeping this pile of metal and glass the way it is is an irresponsible POS.

[@pjano476]

I really hope there has been some attempt to get the witnesses counseling :/ that sounds terrible

[@cyrilmarasigan7108]

Is the workers get a help? It must be traumatizing to see a person commit suicide

[@PineappleLiar]

This may be an off take, but I think the design choices behind the Vessel also enable it as a suicide hotspot. As humans we want to prescribe meaning to things, places, etc. A structure exists for a purpose, even if said purpose isn’t immediately apparent. So, when presented with an ostentatious tower of climbing staircases to nowhere, the question becomes: ‘why does this tower exist? What is the purpose of all these stairs.’ In truth, the stairs serve no purpose but to get you to a higher place, you climb and climb and are rewarded with nothing but a waist high railing and a view of billionaire excess made manifest. There is exactly one thing every person can use this structure for, whether the designers realized that or not.

[@maddiepaige715]

"What happens now is nothing to do with me.' Read: "Fuck you. Got mine."

[@Diandra2011]

I fully agree with you.

[@franckmercier-cotnoir4369]

I think the same. You get up so high for no reason at all except looking at people all the way down, so tiny, so small, like ants... You look at their surroundings and all you see is dreamy and unreachable for 95% of the population and yourself, you start thinking about how you'll never be enough, you're not smart enough or anything like that, you get overwhelmed and there's nothing stopping you... not even a glass fence or any kind of barrier. The architect is washing his hands over this like it's not his fault, the designer too, hell the whole table at the conference was drinking their coffee in awe in front of such beauty and still are ignoring the obvious. The design has no purposes so yeah, people found one for it. A sad one, but one still.

[@themorbidstoner1911]

if im gonna kill myself I would like it to be in a pretty looking place, where i can carry out the attempt successfully

[@kittymervine6115]

it's like in Japan, where there is an island with a resort where people go to commit suicide and also the infamous forest where people go to die. IT's like "This is what this forest is for..." It is "Fine to do this here, this is why this is here..."

[@liminallie]

regarding the NYU library: I have heard students describe it as "cage like" & direct anger at NYU because even tho they spent millions on beautiful barriers they still refuse to provide students with mental health resources. I follow a girl who was immediately expelled as a result of telling her guidance councilor she was suicidal because she was a legal liability to the school. barriers aren't enough.

[@kaisonmun3680]

Barriers aren't enough, but it is one of the functional prevention strategies. I agree mental health resources and proper training to providers in using these resources must be provided as well, and it goes hand in hand with all these other measures.

[@annehedonia156]

Ho.ly. Sh*t.

[@gloomgirl]

My son went to NYU and the pressures from the programs are enormous but also from parents. Someone on my sons floor died freshman year. You can’t blame the architecture-people need mental health services!!

[@AgentSteffi]

Wtf? That doesn't help her mental health! That sounds so dystopian to me. Is that normal in the US?

[@merror-fx8cn]

As a New Yorker: everyone I know in this city sees this building as the epitome of hypergentrification architecture and a symbol of the dystopian direction of city planning. People in my circles were protesting this- as a giant outpost of luxury housing in a city that's been in an affordable housing crisis for literal decades- years ago, and there was a giant labor dispute during its construction because of the project's hiring of non-union labor. Now that it exists I know people who are positively charmed by how incredibly malign and cyberpunk the energy is but the majority see it as a blight and a horror. There is something really fitting about how concrete 'oh, bee tee dubz, this is also now a suicide hotspot' is as a concrete, immediately recognisable reflection of more insidious harms to the community. As a suicide survivor, I'll be glad if they manage to institute safeguards so it can't be a site of impulsive self-destruction, but it sucks that something this malign can only be recognised when people start dying gruesome deaths on the premises.

[@dfwdfw9544]

New York has become far too expensive with much too much luxury development, but critiques of gentrification usually spend all their time criticizing symptoms instead of causes. It is an intellectually shallow political critique.

[@onedirectioninfection5756]

@@dfwdfw9544 to critique the causes, you'd have to take it up with the billion-dollar real estate companies buying houses for above market price with cash in high demand areas. there's obviously a lot to critique that is mostly common sense but not a lot to be done outside of spreading the world and showing up in person to protests and council meetings in terms of addressing the cause since we're talking about uber wealthy people likely with government influence. gentrification simply won't stop, so it's a lot more realistic and easier to deal with the symptoms that the city is already dealing with. my very own block in queens is being gentrified before my eyes and there's nothing i can physically do

[@noodlepoodlegirl]

@@dfwdfw9544 not to mention the video is literally about a "symptom" of gentrification, hence the comment. very plastic holier-than-thou critique of critique.

[@kurobara05]

Okay, here's the thing. As someone who enjoys a lot of creative hobbies, I can understand the idea of 'ugly railings' being thought of an unwanted rule to hinder creation--but it's all how you look at it. A lot of times artists will challenge themselves to making art under difficult situations or with limited materials. SURELY, there is a way that safety measures like railings can be made a part of the design in a beautiful and creative way--so much so that it's not even seen as railings anymore! (Edit: annnnd okay, you get right into that stance, haha, this is what I get for commenting in the middle of a video, lol.)

[@demolitionwoman_OFMD]

Yep! Constraints can actually result in more creative design, which any artist or creator knows.

[@anyaharper2860]

It's not that hard to make a beautiful railing. Just add shiny metal or a glass wall.

[@OldJerzyDevil]

I think some kind of well spaced barriers of glass plating would work well with the design. In a way it would not only compliment the aesthetic, and eliminate the need for netting but also give some protection from wind and adverse weather.

[@snazzypazzy]

If you can't design something pretty and safe, you just can't design.

[@angelalovell5669]

Teehee, you're my mind of commenter, Yuri. Personally, my ADHD usually flares up so bad I just have to comment before a video is over. This happens to me a lot lol

[@rutapickle]

I climbed this very soon after it opened and I wondered why the railings were so "low" compared to the height of the structure - especially at the top! It was kind of scary, not gonna lie. Also, the messaging of an "empty, open vessel" holds eerie meaning for me. Vessels should be able to hold :)

[@Gene1nABottle]

Exactly, as I was staring at it I thought it could have had an inner garden, like a low maintenance garden that hangs down off the railings. It's pretty but bare. An empty nest with no life. A bit of a bummer

[@Gene1nABottle]

Vote to "Vandalize" the vessel with a giant egg?

[@Syd448]

All I can think of is the anxiety of ever having your child there, especially after hearing a 14 year old boy died there. I honestly don’t understand how anyone would be sooo against keeping people safe

[@ljhcmh614]

The Vessel isn’t empty- it holds people. That’s the point. Or at least it did until the suicides shut it down.

[@Tore_Lund]

@@Syd448 Safe means secured against accidents, suicide prevention is protection against intent and human ingenuity. You son was perfectly safe all the time

[@joekellett7017]

This video is impressive. I had suicidal ideations years ago and I remember that it was because of deep deep unrelenting emotional pain. I just wanted the pain to go away. I understand people visiting this place and becoming inspired in the moment to end the pain. I've also visted the Guggenheim, and there would have been no inspiration in that place to end the pain, rather an emotional uplift instead. Your analysis is wonderful. By the way, I'm another person who is very very glad I didn't "jump."

[@SomeoneBeginingWithI]

Also the fact that it's called "the vessel" and the fact that it sort of looks like a rib cage, but is black and empty. There's something about that which might appeal to a suicidal person who feels hopeless and disconnected from life/their body. I think exploring that kind of dark feeling is a valid thing for art to do, but it isn't wise to put art that invokes those feelings so prominently in a public place.

[@maleahlock]

I actually thought it was a ribcage from the thumbnail. It is quite gruesome in that insulated-from-reality way.

[@euansmith3699]

It reminds me of a funerary urn. If they'd made it from jolly coloured materials, I might have thought "flower pot" instead.

[@neuralmute]

I was thinking ribcage or wasps' nest. It might be beautiful, but it's definitely not uplifting. Someone from the psych field should have been consulted on how to *NOT* make this thing a magnet for potential jumpers.

[@Elspm]

Yeah, it's an empty vessel, it calls to that part of me which was suicidal in the past.

[@Risaala]

Yes indeed!

[@msoda8516]

As suicide attempt survivor I can tell you that the moment I woke up alive after my attempt I had a mix of feeling relief for still being alive and sadness that I had felt so hopeless. I am forever grateful for my second chance. Anyone feeling suicidial know it is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Also know any problem or feel no matter how bad will get better. Please ask for help.

[@zexycakes]

As someone who has a mental illness that has caused me multiple attempts, I have to say that those prevention methods (barriers, the mood of the place) are so spot on. It's always been super impulsive for me, anything that puts a "break" in the moment could stop it. This video was super emotional for me and I'm so glad you made it (and I'm doing much better now, I havent had any impulses since 2018!)

[@bethmoore7722]

I’m so sorry you’re afflicted in this way. It must be so painful, and lonely. I hope you are having a good day/evening, and that you have some peace and joy in your days. You have more than earned it, just by surviving.

[@mikki3961]

I'm glad sanguinem-vitae, stay here please.

[@lauravanimpe3173]

Although it is obviously not the focus of this video, thank you for talking about accessibility. It is often overlooked in architecture. Besides being not accessible, it really gives the building an extra message of "you're not welcome when not able bodied and very fit". I'm not surprised an architect/team that doesn't regard disabled people and accessibility doesn't care about the mental health aspect as well. Suicide prevention is another part of accessibility that's super important.

[@jrmckim]

Reminds me when the American heart association's "take the stairs" day promotion involved some company buildings turning off their elevators for a day. One said building was a clinic 🤦🏻‍♀️

[@sunnydong9069]

@@jrmckim That is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard, seriously did no one pause to think about what would happen?

[@paolaanimator]

I am so glad that it's mentioned in the video that this public place is against accessibility, it's just lots of stairs and it's for the physically abled and physically fit. Yes, there is an elevator but the person who designed this talked about being part of the experience is using the body physically, which is something not everyone can do so it already feels like he's leaving out that group of people.

[@kilianortmann9979]

I don't know how it is in the Us, but in Europe there is whats called "reasonably foreseeable misuse". The definition is: “use of a product or system in a way not intended by the manufacturer, but which can result from readily predictable human behavior”, which is exactly what happened here. This should have been anticipated (and was, by everyone, except those involved in its construction) and thus means must be taken to prevent this misuse. Also there is a prescribed order of safety measures, T.O.P., technological, organizational, PPE. All the measures initially taken were organizational, when technological measures (raising the rails, safety nets) should have been implemented first.

[@nicksurfs1]

We have something similar but it can only be enforced by citizen(s) bringing a civil suit and in the US courts are very expensive and even if you win you can lose a ton of money. So the big corporations just string along the lawsuit until the citizen is broke and can’t afford to continue the lawsuit. So basically we do have the law but it’s unenforceable.

[@RemoteCamper]

Well. They did make suicide illegal in many states.. THAT should have stopped everyone...... DUH...

[@quietone748]

If only we had something like the TÜV here in the US.

[@kitnal4143]

@@RemoteCamper this is clearly a suicide magnet. A posh art installation in the center of a designer gated community that consists of simple stairs might as well have a neon sign saying "jumping spot here!".

[@RemoteCamper]

@@kitnal4143let me help you understand. I used something called Sarcasm. You must live a confusing life not able to understand sarcasm. Are you Canadian?

[@katrichardsonwriter]

Just as a viewer here at KZbin, the Vessel seems dark and oppressive, each level overhanging the next, pressing down rather than opening up and out as I assume was the intention. The center is darkened by the ever-reaching layers above and around it. Standing at the bottom, inside or out, must feel like one is being loomed over. It does look like a sort of beehive, and that makes me think that enclosing the whole thing in a well-designed, honey-gold "comb" of safety netting would actually make the thing beautiful and much safer. A garden could be added, or even planters on the structure, to encourage real bees and butterflies. It's a pity so much money has been spent on something so ultimately terrible.

[@maryeckel9682]

It definitely should have plants incorporated into the design along with safety measures.

[@-Reagan]

100% agree! It would actually make sense that way, and the future isn’t 1980’s pointless megastructures - it’s nature and the environment, and being made accessible for people who have disability. The one constant suggestion on all comments about it is that it “needs nature features”, in so many words. It’s true the artist wants to give “disenchanted bourgeois cosmopolitans the feeling of being off-balance and ‘at the edge of death’”. It’s designed for dinosaurs. I hope they change it or else it should be demolished. Will be, anyway in twenty years when these old, obsolete mega-consumer dinosaurs are extinct.

[@RavenStar16]

Yeah, something is way off about The Vessel. It for sure has a dark energy about it, then add the suicides, which I feel this thing draws to itself. The Vessel is not "art", so many horrible things are passed off as "art" .

[@mammamiia08]

Oh hey, I see I wasn't the only one thinking of a fence in a honey hive combs pattern! I agree with you, I think that would look gorgeous!

[@lenas7112]

Only judging by what I see in the video, the words empty and despair come to mind. I imagine it would be worse in person.

[@pitchkp96]

I feel like higher glass barriers would also make it more accessible in the winter! I can't imagine being 8 stories up with basically no wind-break in February would be exactly pleasant

[@WouldntULikeToKnow.]

For real, talk about freezing your face off! NYC winters can be brutal

[@harveyabel1354]

@@WouldntULikeToKnow. *Laughs in Ontario, Canada winter*

[@lazyhomebody1356]

@@harveyabel1354 Or Boston! I've been living in NYC for almost 4 years and it's SO NOT cold here! If it's 58° you see people wearing parkas and scarves and gloves

[@faerisoul]

When I saw this in NYC a couple years ago on an art trip I remember not liking it. And then because I'm an artist I tried to dissect why I didn't like it since there are other large public works that I do like. I eventually concluded that it just felt soulless to me. Now I know why.

[@faerisoul]

@@Nerevarine420 I don’t understand why what I said was arrogant or asshole ish. I was being genuine. Please explain?

[@indigohalf]

I went in hoping you would address the Vessel's atrociously bad vibes, and I'm glad you did. Hudson Yard is a despair vortex for anyone who cares about class inequality.

[@alwayscensored6871]

Pretty much what I thought only 1:30 into this vid.

[@kitlee172]

New World Order vibes.

[@alwayscensored6871]

@@kitlee172 Yep, five sided for a reason?

[@indigohalf]

@@alwayscensored6871 I mean, let's Occam's Razor this. Rich people being irresponsible is sufficient to explain this whole thing, no NWO needed.

[@jeffprice6421]

Caring about "Class inequality" is silly and ridiculous twaddle of people who don't have anything productive to do.

[@SwipSedai]

The bit about regret really hits home with me. I've attempted to overdose. a few times, and except the first time I called the ambulance for myself every time, right after i finished taking the meds. In those moments everything felt clearer and I had a distinct feeling of "what the hell am I doing? why did I do that? I don't want this." whenever I talk to someone who's contemplating suicide that's what I tell them. Every single time I've tried, I've regretted it immediately, and my mind is suddenly able to conjure up every reason in the world not to die. and If you can think of only one reason not to, hang onto it and don't let go. because when it's too late you'll wish you could grab it again. It's what I wish someone had told me in those moments instead of the things people usually say, which in my experience only made me feel worse. I still struggle mentally, but I haven't harmed myself at all in a few years, and every time I want to I remind myself of the regret, and how badly I wanted to live when I thought I was dying.

[@Candytuft-CookingPan]

(Just a warning this message includes grim topics, like near death experiences. But that's to be expected I guess) I have personally never attempted any form of suicide but something happened when I was suicidal that brought me to generally the same conclusion you have here. The regret. I had been strangled, by someone I knew. It was terrifying, and in the moment I didn't have any-time to think because if I did I would have passed out. All I knew, was that I wanted to live in that moment. And, probably another reason which I won't say here because it's far more personal but. To say the least, I managed to escape and I survived. I most likely would've survived no matter what because it takes a long time to die of strangulation but I'm glad I got out when I did.

[@Freya778]

Something a lot of people don't realise, is that most people that are suicidal or attempt to/succeed at committing suicide don't actually want to die. They desperately want to live, but without the pain they are experiencing. Another thing a lot of people don't realise, is that a lot of suicide attempts/suicides are impulsive. Not planned out but an opportunity taken at a moment when they were susceptible to it.

[@meowmew444]

@@Candytuft-CookingPan I'm so sorry you went through that. I hope your attacker rots. And I hope you're doing okay and receiving support, you deserve love and happiness.

[@carolbrady2482]

As a therapist, I truly appreciate your sharing your thoughts and feelings. Thank you. I hope you are in a better place right now.

[@HK-gm8pe]

true...I survived an suicide attempt at age 16, I took an overdose as well , stayed in coma for 2 weeks, when I woke up I didnt feelmy legs, needed to learn how to walk again ,I am 25 now and I am sure that I will never attempt another one again ,life is precious

[@13ravenstears]

Designing a building to make someone feel unbalance and on the edge of death also can provoke the call of the void. If you are already struggling, ignoring those intrusive thoughts can be very difficult. I was an interior design student and these are things that we were taught to take into account.

[@oneminuteofmyday]

My grandmother wouldn’t go near any high place that only had railings, even if they were considered proper safety height, because of how strongly she felt the call of the void. I remember her saying, “it’s not that I’m afraid of heights, I’m afraid of me. As soon as I look down, I feel compelled to throw myself over the edge.” The Vessel would have been an absolute “no” for her.

[@BlitzsieLDiscoLSnow]

@@oneminuteofmyday Thank you for giving words to my feelings. I never knew how to express these. I like standing on top of tall things and feel the wind blow in my face, but I can't look down or the intrusive thoughts will ask me how it would feel to plummet down. I'm not afraid of heights. I'm afraid of me. Thank you.

[@denisehill7769]

I'm glad you mentioned this - thankfully I no longer have this horrible compulsion, and I was not in the slightest suicidal (I'm also afraid of heights but that didn't seem to make any difference). It was a compulsion that I could not explain - however, the presence of barriers added to my own lack of height meant that I was given time to overcome the compulsion and come to my senses. I thought I was the only one until talking to a tour guide, ironically on the roof of a castle.

[@Daisymeowsooty]

@@oneminuteofmyday My mother had the same problem. She said she felt like she had to jump.

[@oneminuteofmyday]

@@BlitzsieLDiscoLSnow my grandmother would have been very pleased to know someone benefited from her oddities. Though I read recently that this is actually pretty common, so her oddity wasn’t that odd. Stay safe.

[@johnpatrick6998]

As a native New Yorker I have absolutely zero desire to visit Hudson yards. I've never done the new years time square nonsense either. Totally agree with your opinion on this. NYU got it right. When I want to see " art " I go to the Met.

[@karolinepratt9138]

As a civil engineer from middle europe, my university years were filled by telling us: low railing = people are falling down = ticket to jail. We were taught to put tall railing everywhere, no matter what architects say or how ugly it gets because in the moment someone falls (or jumps because he can get past the railing) we have the full responsibility. Never even thought that real engineer would let something like this be built. Or that in US there are no safety norms for this like in EU.

[@31michelle64]

Ummm isn't this architect from Europe?

[@westrim]

The architect was British. This thing made all sorts of violations of US code (limited handicapped access was another big one), most of which they got past by simply ignoring them, some of which they stalled on by arguing that it was not whichever structure the code was meant for. Basically, they tried to call it a sculpture, not a building, and hold out until it was completed and a fait accompli, then hold off renovations with stalling and lawyers.

[@prayingmantis8148]

I think the architects who won't take responsibility have thought it through, and simply decided they care more about looks than people's lives. This should be illegal.

[@travcollier]

There's a hell of a lot of difference between an elite architect and a civil engineer. Civil engineers literally have a professional code of ethics because people depend on what you design. The thing I find most offensive about this and some other big-"art" projects is that they so ostentatiously have no underlying purpose other than symbolism. I love art and symbolism is the important, but if you're spending $150 million to build something huge on some of the most valuable land in the world, it should have many purposes or you're just doing it wrong. Oh, and that it imitates the functional design of a step well makes it even worse.

[@Anon54387]

Karoline: It's really a matter of personal responsibility. I can find a way to jump off the Golden Gate Bridge. It doesn't mean I should. Aside from that, if someone really is set on ending their life all high railings and suicide nets mean is that someone will end their life in a way other than jumping off a bridge. Now if it truly was a failure of engineering, like the Hyatt Regency walkway collapse in Kansas City, Missouri in the 1980s, there are consequences. The firm that allowed that design change without the proper analysis permanently lost their engineering license.

[@RadDocPhil07]

Instead of being a documentary on suicide at the vessel and just leaving it bare, I deeply appreciate your effort at presenting a solution and a solid example of successful implementation, backed with studies. Comprehensive and exhaustive discussion, with clear points really do come across from your presentation. Thank you.

[@mellvee]

It's absolutely bone chilling to think that almost everyone who survives suicide attempts instantly regrets it, and that 90% of them do not go on to make another attempt. Suicide is such a permanent and tragic end to a life, and it makes it so much worse to know what so many of those who do not survive are thinking in their final seconds. It's horrifying to think that so many experience instant regret, but never get the opportunity to tell anyone about it.

[@andysmith1996]

It's not 90 per cent who do not go to make another attempt - 30 per cent do, but only 7 per cent are successful.

[@smilingearth5181]

@@andysmith1996 Yeah, I think it was something like only a small fraction of attempts survive, but almost everyone who did said they realized their problems were fixable when they were "on the way down."

[@lesliediane6693]

Sometimes it feels like the only way out of a hopeless situation and if you're mentally ill on top of it...it's a fight just to keep the THOUGHTS of suicide out of your mind. A daily struggle 😪

[@mellvee]

@@andysmith1996 I gotcha. I misunderstood the statistic. It's still a horrifying thought, though. It's been weeks since I watched this episode, and I still think about it from time to time. What must be going through the minds of the poor people that do experience instant regret, in the seconds before they die? It's almost too awful to even comprehend.

[@katrinamorhart1850]

A shame this now age restricted, more people need to know about this, I’m glad you covered something I’ve seen in passing so respectfully. Very informative.

[@CanadianTimeLord]

The Bloor Viaduct in Toronto was a hotspot for people wanting to commit suicide. By 1997, there was an average of one person jumping to their death every 22 days. A barrier called The Luminous Veil was constructed across the span as both art and for prevention. It won an award for architecture and has worked amazingly.

[@inesdrent16]

Yes!I walked or biked over this viaduct almost every other day while living on the Danforth, it was truly beautiful at night. In addition, contact poles and suicide prevention signs are in place.

[@swedishhousemfia]

thanks for bringing this up. the name escaped me

[@onelessthing]

I was looking to see if anyone had mentioned the Luminous Veil in this conversation and was going to bring it up if no one else had. It's really lovely at night. It's so comforting to see it and think that not only is it pleasing to look at, it's also decreasing suicide attempts in the area.

[@magnusbane420]

As someone who has tried to commit suicide, I can say with confidence that if a person really wants to die, an entrance fee and guards won't help. If you've been depressed for long enough, you know how to fake being in a good state of mind to get the guards off your back. If you choose to die at that exact spot, why not pay the price for it, even if it maxes out your credit card, when you'll be too dead to pay it off?

[@andrewlitvinov7266]

I think that it's fair to apply this argument further. Even the railings and safety net would not stop the suicide. They would just move it elsewhere, out of the public eye. I can see how that would be desirable, but there is no moral value here.

[@sebastian122]

I'm glad you're still with us.

[@ava_marie_v]

@@andrewlitvinov7266 That's something she covers in the video, and actually, those things do help. There's research that proves their effectiveness.

[@magnusbane420]

@@sebastian122 thanks :)

[@magnusbane420]

@Atom maybe spread your religious messages somewhere not talking about suicide? Just a thought

[@TheKazadoodle]

We have a bridge in my fair city that was, for a long time, a 'hot spot' for suicides. The fact that the bridge is vehicle only makes this baffling. Finally, in 2010/11, suicide barriers were installed reducing the number by a staggering 85% (prior to this, data collected indicated one suicide every three weeks). The barriers were created and installed in such a way that no views have been obscured. It can be done and it does work.

[@cellobotomy6368]

The fact that it's vehicle-only may contribute to it, as someone is less likely to see you or stop if they're in a vehicle. The "visibility" factor goes way down.

[@TheKazadoodle]

@@cellobotomy6368 Perhaps I should have been more precise - the bridge is not accessible by foot traffic for several miles at each end. It connects a highway over water. To get onto the bridge, a pedestrian should be seen.

[@maddy1403]

Just curious, is this the skyway bridge? It sounds a lot like it. It’s always so eerie crossing knowing the history

[@TheKazadoodle]

@@maddy1403 No, it's not the skyway bridge.

[@JustTytee]

As a person who tried/has been suicidal and also accepts death at any moment. I can say that the barriers are like when people call someone before they try to unalive themselves. If they’re was a bridge like that or highway in Maryland that I could find and get over the barrier I would’ve did it but if I couldn’t get over I would immediately rethink.

[@commonunicorn1975]

I remember when the vessel was announced everyone commented that people would try to commit suicide on it. They were right.

[@lornam3637]

@Benjamin David Lurie Said Jesus?

[@itwasagoodideaatthetime7980]

The Sydney Harbour Bridge has high barriers. That curve inwards over the bridges walk way to help prevent people from jumping.

[@WouldntULikeToKnow.]

@Benjamin David Lurie how utterly hypocritical you are. Get professional help.

[@headerahelix]

@Benjamin David Lurie As a christian, we don't claim you.

[@isabelp187]

@@itwasagoodideaatthetime7980 barely anyone walks over the Sydney harbour bridge tho

[@ggariepy]

I'm a member of my city's Planning Commission. Thank you for highlighting this issue. This points out an issue I should be keeping an eye out for.

[@australobuchia]

Couple of other things she didn't mention but which follow on from the overall theme. It's obviously generally inaccessible, but I also immediately noticed that all of those levels are really hostile to life. There's no seating, there's no water fountains, and presumably there's no toilets either. The elevator looked small and due to the stairway design, you obviously can't use it to get to every platform so.. if you have a heart attack I guess the paramedics will just have to carry you down?? There are places where I would expect this lack of safety and accessibility, but the middle of New York City isn't one of them, you know?

[@Alex-bi5rz]

@@australobuchia you're absolutely right

[@vichomangiola]

@@australobuchia right? even if it´s defined as whatever, if it´s meant to have people on it, how do these things are not considered? I'm not even from a developed country and that type of measures are required by law.

[@designersheets]

@@australobuchia These parts of NYC as a whole are pretty hostile to life honestly. It is SO hard to find a public restroom that doesn't require you spending money at the place to use it. I could go on for way too long really so I'll stop there, I'm sure the point comes across well enough already. Screw this nasty, elitist piece of "art."

[@florian8599]

I love how the library and the Guggenheim Museum have proven that suicide prevention and safety is and should be part of good, tasteful design.

[@fusion451]

Guggenheim didnt do anything no rails no plexiglass

[@kiehliemcgregor9159]

I one hundred percent feel the "it's easy enough to say a space is for us when everyone around is like you" sentiment. I live in Vancouver, BC in Canada and it has totally become a metropolis for wealth. They talk about inclusivity when it is so dang expensive to live here, it makes a lot of people wonder why they're still here. Thanks for bringing in that POV because I totally would never have thought of that myself. Love your videos Caitlyn :)

[@shannonthomas106]

Hi Caitlin. My spinal cord was severed when I was 8 years old. As a result, I’ve had to use a wheelchair for the past 44 years. I just wanted to thank you so much for talking about the inaccessibility of this structure. Inaccessibility does not get the attention it needs, so I was thrilled when you mentioned it. BTW, I love your books and videos, so thank you for that too! 🙂

[@Stefengris]

I'm a designer. I spent this whole time pulling my hair. Design 101 at university was pretty much "what is a problem, how do we solve a problem creatively". *that* is design. Yes, absolutely there are aesthetic considerations, but those are often enthusiastically addressed as part of the problem solving puzzle... that still fits the need. Fortunately I'm in fashion and textiles, but I remember way back when I had friends who students of engineering and architecture. They were constantly at each others throats, constantly. It so resembles this situation with the vessel. Archies would be screaming over some hair brained esoteric art statement structure scribbled on the back of a receipt, enge would be stamping their feet trying to explain the laws of physics and why it's bonkers. There would be a back and forth of unrelenting enge pragmatism "all that is required is something suits the need", archies bleating about fulfilling lives with beauty. Meanwhile, landscape and horti designers, and myself are stirring our tea in the corner. Fashion: "hey, so we're making textiles with kombucha" Landscape: "oh neat, what's it like?" FA: "leathery, still dissolves in water so we have to figure that out. biodegradable though, haha. what are you up to?" LD: "oh we're doing a survey on water flow, retaining walls drainage. sort of thing" Horiculture: "you're doing that field study? Me to. It's hydrology." LD: "*thats* the name again, cheers. You got your camp set up?" Horti: "nah" FA: "I could show you how to make a dope tepee, I got a machine that's happy with thick moleskins." LD: "easy to pack up and down?" Hort: "don't see why not. yo! Industrial design! get over here." Industrial design: "YO!" Hort: "FA is making some moleskins for a tepee, cause me and LD are doing feild work. how to make it contactable?" ID: "easy. but I'm in the middle of designing a mess free bin flap for cafeterias." everyone :"that's important work." LD: "so messy." ID: "I'm keen though. lets go camping." FA: "love camping. I want to try out knitted fish traps." LD: "I saw a viddy for creating an automatic hammer to compress mud tiles, using water run off." Hort, ID: "dope" FA: "water wheel tech was pretty cool, cotton, wool industry... industrial revolution baby." ID: "now we talkin... ~they walk off into the sunset~ ENGE and ARCHIE have since brought in the whole faculty to shank each other. I've had my catharsis comment. thank you.

[@Shadowdreamer4]

As a design major, something we had to learn was "function over form". If the design is beautiful but cannot function properly because of it, it's a failed design. It *_IS_* the designers job to take all potential problems into account when designing and finding solutions to them. A lot of times that means the end product is not what we originally envisioned, but that's part of the process. He absolutely could've added some kind of tall decorative gate/wall that you can clearly see the view without falling off, could even add a glass dome at the top. His comment on "Whatever happens afterwards is not my problem" says to me that someone absolutely approached him with the railing issue and he just didn't want to have to make changes. This is a bad designer.

[@sebastiangray1196]

EXACTLY. i also studied design in school and wholeheartedly agree. if i design a beautiful costume but the actor can't move in it, or god forbid it injures them, i've done a bad job as a costume designer. it's as simple as that. as far as i can see it's only in the world of architecture and high end fashion where that's suspended and the end user is somehow responsible. also it looks like an evil pinecone and i hate it.

[@ljhcmh614]

There's no possible way to take "all potential problems into account" -- especially when it comes to those who will intentionally misuse your design for their own destructive purposes. I live in a simple one-story home in middle America, but looking around, I can see at least a dozen architecture features of the home that I could exploit to take my life if I wanted to. Does that mean my architect was negligent? No, of course not. It has to be said that no one has accidentally died while visiting this structure. Only those who intentionally bypassed the existing barriers with suicidal intentions have died.

[@brandy7593]

@@sebastiangray1196 "it looks like an evil pinecone and i hate it." lmfao

[@ezekielbrockmann114]

I disagree. This is an excellent design. It's a billionaire's ideal design. All those millionaires living there look down on that thing and smile broadly thinking about all the poor Plebeians who've killed themselves there. It's not that they don't care, its the opposite. They do care but they derive joy knowing we suffer. They WANT us to die.

[@MothraBlues]

@@ljhcmh614 Oh please. You appear to not be living in the same world as the rest of us. This monument to a billionaire's hubris had suicide risk written all over it long before construction began. The way you describe these poor people who leapt to their deaths as "misusing" the building suggests you have ZERO compassion fir them, nor the slightest understanding of suicide risk prevention (and comparing your own home to the lack of adequate safeguards in the Vessel is simply specious). Your last name isn't "Heatherwck" by any chance?

[@graysonrogers-barnes6302]

The only thing that stopped me once was the lack of access to the bridge I was considering once. These things save lives.

[@mklaebel]

As someone who has dealt with intrusive thoughts about driving off of bridges (I'm not suicidal, even!), a place like this makes me uneasy just to look at. Taller plexiglass barriers would not obstruct the view. But the whole thing reeks of wealthy circle-jerking.

[@TheMeloettaful]

I knew I couldn't have been the only one with thoughts like that. I drive by a huge gorge ditch thing every day and wonder "what will happen if I just drove right in it?". It's really strange, and now New York has this Vessel whose only seeming purpose is for people to jump off of 😞. A couple commenters already called it looking like either a wasp nest, a rib cage, and the most unsettling an urn. Definitely not a life affirming piece of artwork 💀💀💀.

[@saraheerie]

This. Absolutely. My bf won’t even entertain the idea of moving into an apartment above 3 or 4 floors bc I’ve literally mentioned having the weird urge to jump when I’m in a very tall building. I’m also not suicidal, the thoughts just.. well they’re intrusive.

[@thoughtengine]

This sounds like Edgar Allen Poe's Imp of the Perverse. It's even roughly how he describes it in the beginning of the story.

[@mklaebel]

@@TheMeloettaful I agree. The urn comparison really hits.

[@mklaebel]

@@saraheerie it's weird. Mine came out of nowhere. I was fine and then randomly crossed a bridge and had the thought about driving over the side.

[@sushanalone]

As a Civil Engineer this is the constant problem we face with Architects, They are overly imaginative, We are overly practical. Usually there is a sweet spot and compromise, but here definitely the Architects had the final say.

[@tiner8414]

Well I think the quote from the beginng of the video “We had done everything we would.” Not could, would... The design was prioritized.

[@joaquinescotoaleman4320]

I kinda shock that, this rich guy Ross didn't resolve the problem at the first death, I mean billionaires just want to make profits and avoid bad press! 🙄

[@jeepliving1]

A painting is pure art that can be evaluated solely on aesthetics. Buildings are a form of functional art that have to combine aesthetics and practical functionality. If a building fails the function test, it doesn't matter how visually exciting it is.

[@JackedThor-so]

I have a feeling that The Vessel is going to be used as shorthand for "class disconnect." This building was NOT designed with the common person in mind, I really don't. I belive the architects THINK it was, but it isn't. It's nothing more than a billion-dollar paperweight to show off what SOME people can do with their vast, vast amounts of wealth. It was designed with the tastes of the designers and who were funding them over anyone else.

[@gozerthegozarian9500]

Agreed! It's a huge, overpiced piece of - excuse my French - art wank.

[@katehall2027]

Exactly right

[@k.morningstar7983]

ugly, replace it w/ affordable housing

[@taylor3950]

So I may be in the minority here but I do find the vessel to be beautiful, the updated library barriers to be stressful and ugly, and the Guggenheim to feel exclusionary ($25 admission fee anyone?). But I still think it’s ridiculous that it didn’t have barriers to begin with. Perhaps ones with shimmering coppery designs where the glass panes meet or a latticework above the railings. The vertigo could have been achieved in a different way.

[@JohnnyOrc]

Honestly, the first thing I thought of when I saw it was "What's the purpose?" Sure, there's a nice view from the top...in some directions. Other directions are blocked by skyscrapers. If it had been incorporated into nearby buildings via walkways it would have been a neat way to see some sights while on your way, but I don't really get the point of it sitting out there by itself. Granted, I'm probably not the best to talk to about it, because I have the same concerns over the Eiffel Tower.

[@SuperT7179]

As im typing 23 minutes in, im crying because of what art and beauty around us can change someone's possible thoughts of suicide. I honestly really want to make a difference, and my heart is with people in general, between children and adults. We all matter and are important. I've found my calling, and I think it's being a therapist.

[@bric3842]

The library was a great addition to this video. It’s a great example of an issue being fixed in a way that benefits everyone. Going to the vessel might harm my mental health if I went there because being that high with no railings can bring about existential crises and dread.

[@erinr825]

Have to disagree with you about the library, I think the additions are horrible and would never find it a place conductive to reading or studying.

[@griffenspellblade3563]

Though maybe having the waterfall not be the color of pee would have been an improvement. Still, that design did make the atrium look more classy.

[@RadenWA]

I assume the “Call of the Void” may play a part there too.

[@bric3842]

@@griffenspellblade3563 I think that was a picture with weird lighting because I think it’s supposed to be bronze

[@bub4522]

Hey I'm not a native english speaker, and was wondering what Caitlin and you mean by the work "railing"? I thought it was the fence things, which are there, though short.

[@angelachouinard4581]

Kaitlin when you talked about the Guggenheim it brought back a memory. My friend and I were following two men in very expensive suits, obviously on a long lunch hour. As we neared the top there was a special exhibit by kids from NYC publics schools. One man asked the other ""Want to? and he replied "Why not?". They loved the kids work and one thought it was better than the millions of dollars worth of stuff below. That place is not just life affirming, it's alive.. People were talking to each other and having a good time. The vessel is empty, hollow and lifeless The view may be great but they view is not part of the structure.

[@metaltwister2536]

Yes the “Vessel” was inspired, designed and financed by empty, cold and disconnected visionaries. It is a tribute to those that are of that egoist tribe. It is an empty vessel like them. There is no heart to make room for anyone not like them. I hope for divine intervention to enlighten them.

[@katarinatibai8396]

Empty vessel - what a matching creation from a narcissist - a real and thrutfull expression of his core.

[@katarinatibai8396]

@@metaltwister2536 Agree - a pefect expression of a narcissist - a real mirror of his soul. - a empty vessel.

[@katarinatibai8396]

I tray to figure aut how many play grounds for childern the town could have - when the Thomas - rich wanna do exlusive shit in town - would pore his money in that instead in his empty ego vessel. - My head spinn.

[@kevinwelsh7490]

I dropped a bag of marbles onto the floor near the top. Now I am banned for life!

[@timetotalktitanic7381]

Puts me in mind of pre-April 1912 when ship companies (like Cunard and White Star Line) would say that lifeboats blocked the view from the boat deck, and they wanted the 1st class passengers to enjoy the panoramic vistas at Sea. And look how that ended up on April 15th 1912…

[@patpierce4854]

Too right…..I had the same thought.

[@emilyforeman2646]

That's a really great example

[@LeTrashPanda]

Vanity can kill, that's for sure.

[@SprinkledFox]

Lmaooo this is a perfect example

[@RaieG]

What happened on that date?

[@mehlover]

Barriers can be functional and beautiful as you said. It's such a shame the designer doesn't want to compromise at all. And as someone who attempted, small deterrents really help. I also noticed the other architect building with the art, also had slopes, making it accessible to everyone

[@vincei4252]

How could they not foresee this ? Look at any bridge or railway crossing, the netting / high fences are there for a reason.

[@ecitraro]

I’m not sure that’s true; look at the years the Golden Gate Bridge was not retrofitted for safety, but was similarly “dangerous.”

[@sharong8511]

Coming to that conclusion would take common sense, Vince I. Common sense ain’t common anymore!

[@LadyLuck13]

@@sharong8511 yeah I concur, common sense is severely lacking these days

[@vincei4252]

@@sharong8511 "what happens now is nothing to do with me" Seems like they considered what could happen but they were too busy reflecting on their own awesomeness. That is some stone cold reasoning. Yes, the people that jumped could have found some other place to do same but to sit there and say "it's not my problem" is just sociopathic.

[@raeannuria5691]

@@ecitraro indeed!

[@mojave7604]

As an architecture student, I really appreciate you sharing your perspective on this. I think all architecture students should have to watch this video.

[@LibertineDeSade]

I walk past this thing every day going back and forth to work and didn't know about all of this (I'm new to the city). However, as someone with a history of self-harm it really makes sense as to why I always felt weird about this structure and now I look at it very differently. I brushed it off as just being ugly and seeming out of place, but it definitely has a "void" feel to it in terms of design and placement. Great video!

[@wirelesmike73]

The Vessel is a great name for such a monument to emptiness. That does seem less unintentional when you look at it as a void. You definitely honed in on the vibe. It kinda gives off a "modern sacrificial alter" kind of vibe to me. IDK, maybe it's the architects' "whatever happens, happens" attitude about it. Creepy.

[@OddLeah]

Just from the pictures, the thing looms menacingly. It's heavy and dense and dark. I can vividly imagine the vertigo and nausea I would experience on it.

[@isabelp187]

@@OddLeah yeah I can imagine being at the top and suddenly feeling faint or having intrusive thoughts

[@mossthatrules77]

I pray you one day free yourself from the hell that is new york city.

[@infaroyyaalkarimahmuhamad1439]

I'm studying to be an architect, this building actually has been talked about in my class previously, one of reason is safety points. I didn't know that you covered this. This is a good take..

[@corey75952]

I worked in the Hudson Yards mall when it first opened adjacent to the Vessel in 2019. The very first time I saw the Vessel in person, I said “someone is going to take their life on that thing.” One of the main things that I’d add to this conversation (because I now find the place repugnant) is that pretty much every element of Hudson Yards construction was rushed. While it looks polished on the outside, I worked inside the mall before it opened to the public and soooo many things were insanely behind schedule. The Vessel was undergoing construction up until the last minute; I could see it outside every day. When the mall opened to the public, there were still multiple stores that hadn’t opened yet. Our store had leaks, plumbing issues, air/heat problems, and it had JUST been built. I already know that THE problem with Hudson Yards is the billionaire urge to just get it done already so they can enjoy their investment. It’s gross.

[@wirelesmike73]

It's also that they bid these projects out to the lowest cost contractor who inevitably cut corners to get finished on schedule and try to finish under an already slender budget. It's a recipe for disaster, and it's only getting worse across the country.

[@ayakotami3318]

Even before Catlin mentioned the first suicide that was my exact thought. I had a feeling this was about suicide. 😓

[@piernikowyloodek]

The NYU Library is such a brilliant example. Of course you can design the taller barriers in a way that blends in and / or further improves the vessels look!

[@Louis-si4ci]

I agree 👍 💯% it now looks beautiful

[@michellereynolds8979]

Honestly, until this video I had never heard of, nor seen images of The Vessel. My first thought was "that looks like the kind of place where you could plan to die and at the same time make that death look accidental". It's amazing and yet altogether unsurprising that the New York elite wouldn't consider that looking down on the wealth and luxury surrounding you in the city that never sleeps would cause people to experience a sense of exclusion and depression at their circumstances. I think you did an excellent job asking for accountability in a way that is sensitive to the dead.

[@lazyhomebody1356]

I doubt very much that a temporary feeling of being poor caused anyone to take their life

[@michellereynolds8979]

@@lazyhomebody1356 being poor isn't always a temporary feeling. Most people struggle with finances at some point, particularly young people who are finding out that living on their own for the first time comes with tremendous unforseen responsibilities. People have unfortunate reasons and circumstances for wanting to take their own lives. A sense of being unable to obtain a life you want, partnered with opportunity could be one.

[@lazyhomebody1356]

@@michellereynolds8979 I've been dirt poor my whole adult life. I was only suicidal as a young, taken-care of person. But you may be right, some people may feel that way. It's depressing to be sure!

[@suzyh5874]

Love to every person who has ever thought that life would be better off without them. You are seen and heard and you matter. I really felt that when you said how buildings with beauty and beautiful railings and barriers built in would help people recondider. That's such a wonderful idea and I hope that it saves many lives. Thank you for handling this discussion in such a compassionate and practical way. It's always nice to discuss real solutions xx

[@thesylvia323]

WOW, I didn’t realize you were the writer of “smoke gets in your eyes” That book changed my life and how I viewed narrative writing! My professor recommended your book to our class a few years ago. Ever since then I’ve added your book to my favorites shelf. You’re truly an amazing writer, thank you so much for sharing your gifts with the world!

[@angelacanedit]

She has two other books as well! I liked her last one a lot

[@Y2Ksnowglobe]

I think, if you've never been in that place, it's hard to imagine how much a small setback can stop you. I always say that the main reason I'm alive today is because I didn't have my keys on me when I was in crisis. Once I had to go back into my apartment it became easier to make the choice to pick up my phone and call my mom, and then my best friend, and then develop a plan to see my university counselor the next day first thing after I woke up.

[@jorgeluz9560]

Same with me. The crisis is excruciating, but it passes and suddenly you see how ridiculous the idea of self harm is. But during the crisis, it doesn't seems ridiculous. Any delay can be helpful to get out of that mindset. Sending love to you as someone who knows the struggle.

[@Iseegard]

Same. Didn't have a car or money for a busticket, so I couldn't follow through with my plan the moment I felt ready. Now 16 years later I'm living my best life being thankful for being a broke teenager. :D

[@AngelusaNobilis]

I took the noose off my neck when my son called me. After the call I realized what I was doing and got help.

[@Benni777]

Exactly!! I have been in a mental crisis too, and something as simple as a phone on your person will make “doing the act” a lot harder for me, personally, but it’s not a universal tool for everyone, bc everyone’s mind works differently. ☺️And phones might even promote those horrible thoughts further bc of social media

[@abuntykhan184]

As an Architecture student we are taught that while building a space the first priority is safety, then come the comfort and then comes the aesthetics. No matter how good it looks if it's not safe it won't work! Then there's also the ethical principles that some people just don't want to work with!

[@CrimsonSandBoa]

I'm so glad that you brought up a lot of the topics that you did in this video. I'm disabled, so bringing up accessibility felt really nice. It's something that a lot of people don't consider because they can walk just fine, and often expect everyone else to be able to do so, but that is far from the case. And then you covered the subject of mental health and safety. Not only am I disabled, but I'm also a manic depressive. I'm on good medication now, but there have been times in my life where I have very heavily considered suicide. Having a simple measure such as nets is so important. That can change a mind. It's one little thing that can keep someone from taking that leap. Truly, thank you for making this video. Thank you for discussing very difficult topics that not a lot of people want to. It needs to be discussed, though. Safety really should come first.