1960 Deluxe VS 1959 Harvard - A Fender Tweed Comparison - Ask Zac 90

[@smoochie3331]

As an owner of 1959 Deluxe and 57 Harvard, I have been waiting for this vid for long.

[@DannyDKNYC]

Hello. So what’s your thoughts having both of them? How would you compare them? Thanks

[@smoochie3331]

@@DannyDKNYC they both awesome I can't choose one over the other. The Harvard sounds narrow in frequency and bolder, deluxe is a bit more useful in many situations.

[@DannyDKNYC]

@ Thank you. I only know the deluxe. I’ve had a 58 and 60, and recently built my own and I put a 1960 p12q in it. Surprising the one I built sounds authentic - so a lot can be said for the circuit and the speaker. By the way, try a 12ax7 in the v1 spot ( where the 12ay7 is now). No mod necessary and it’s perfectly safe. You’ll get more volume and it will break up sooner with sustain for days.

[@cedarbay3994]

Recently got a ‘60 Deluxe and now I want a Harv. Tweed Greed.

[@Gma7788]

HiFi and LoFi sound are different.

[@WillyPDX94]

One of your most interesting shows yet. Thanks, Zac, for showcasing these two similar, but as you say, very different amps. Hearing them side by side is a rare opportunity---what a great idea.

[@AskZac]

My pleasure!

[@AdamJohnSwenson]

Yes, this was super helpful! Way better than trying to decipher off a forum. :)

[@martynsparkes7118]

I love that deluxe..the Harvard just sounds like its in a wardrobe if that makes sense,I like the hair on the sound the Deluxe gives...that would be awesome with a Strat..

[@memriloc]

Great vid, great but I found myself the whole time wanting to straighten that picture on the wall :)

[@mrfuzztone]

I don't have any vintage Fender tweed amps but I appreciate the sounds. I have a Swart STR-Tweed which sounds great. And several other Swart Amps. Also a few Tungsten amps such as a Cortez. Really good, All my money has been spent on a bunch of vintage Martin guitars back to 1923. I would like an old Fender but the Swart and Tungsten amps sound great. Also have a Victoria Bandmaster.

[@markengel5583]

Enjoyed that, quite revealing!! Sorta similar, I frequently play in tandem, a Tungsten Cortez 5E3 Deluxe (Tungsten/Weber designed PQ12) and a Victoria 5112 5F1 Champ (Jensen PQ12 reissue). Very different tone characteristics - the Champ having more “headroom” up to about 9 on the volume. The aggregate tone mix is an incredible 1+1=3 type of thing. In low volume settings I often plug into the Deluxe’s bright input #2. I often use a DrZ Cure (kinda brown/tweed leaning tone) with the Deluxe. Tweed amps never cease to inspire!

[@kanga-blue]

Hey Zac you are a legend! In your own mind! Seriously it's much BETTER you say nothing once you start playing as if a presenter speaks your ears reference to the sound of their voice which messes up the actual AB comparison. You do usually tell us at the start which he is starting with first. In fact because of the way he does this it is the BEST AB tone comparison on youtube. Easy to tell which is which if your use quality headphones or monitors. I listen on Event Opals.

[@12footchain]

Really interesting. Way more difference than I was expecting. I wonder what the Harvard sounds like powering a 12" speaker.

[@rickschiller]

Nice video, well thought out comparison of two monster amplifiers of bygone days. Your love and appreciation comes through. While both the Deluxe 5E3 (sometimes mislabeled 5F3) and the Harvard 5F10 use a one side of a 12AX7 cathodyne Phase Invertor section to feed the 6V6s grids (in push pull), significantly the Deluxe has no negative feedback loop while the Harvard has a 56k resistor off the speaker output feeding into the Preamp II cathode tube. Negative feedback limits output, can lead to a more controlled tone and if needed can eliminate unwanted parasitic oscillation. This one difference is likely the most significant electronic component resulting in a different quality of sound and that the Deluxe has a more open, raw sound. Cathode and fixed bias is not as critical and really may not matter as either method merely controls current flow and can be adjusted. Finally the stage II pre-amp in both has a 1k5 bias capacitor and the Deluxe adds a bypass electrolytic capacitor which will noticeably increase gain. The Harvard does not have the bypass cap. While many use a 12AX7 in Tweed Deluxes, the 12AY7 has an amplification factor of 40; the 1st stage Harvard 6AT6 has amplification factor of 70. Interestingly, 12AT7 and 5751 tubes also have 70 amplification.

[@jambajoby32]

What exactly does this mean? Smooth but less break up in the Harvard ?

[@1drumm]

My favorite, and most important feature of the tweed Fender Deluxe Amp is its ability to run 2 channels in series. As this allows you to use both volume controls as a preamp for either channel. 🎸❤‍🔥✍🏻

[@gregoire8376]

"Here, let's just turn the Deluxe up to about 8 or 9". In that room, I'm sure my ears would be warm in about 20 seconds at that sound pressure. Verry goood video of the two amps. I'm with Zac. Harvard is more "small ampy" to my ears.

[@Colinjohnmusic]

Both great amps! I used a’59 Harvard on a session recently with an Esquire and it was a fantastic sound; chimey, grindy and full without being flubby. It’s hard to beat a good well tuned tweed amp for classic blues an rock n roll. Great episode as always Zac. Thanks

[@brunovilhena114]

Actually the biggest difference power amp wise might be the existence of negative feedback loop in the Harvard Vs the absence of negative feedback loop in the deluxe. Also on the preamp the coupling capacitors on the deluxe are .1 which allow for much more lower end.

[@williamsanderson9279]

A really fun comparison of these classic, vintage amps. Thank you. Keep up the great work!

[@AskZac]

Thank you, William

[@ericcarpenter3263]

I have a 1959 Deluxe. On it, and not a single thing has been changed, it starts to really overdrive at 4 on the volume. Then again, I am hitting with a Junior style guitar with P-90s. I love it and it sounds amazing, but I really need to have it worked on. It still has the 2 prong cord and original tubes. I have a set of new tubes that I use in it but other than that, all original. At this point, I’m afraid something is gonna blow and take out more components so that is gonna be my winter project. Great video, love them tweeds.

[@Rustruinsrides]

Zac, you're quickly becoming one of my favorite guitar guys. I can thank your buddy Keith over at 5 Watt for introducing me to your channel. You've been a good escape for me during some hard times so thank you for that!

[@AskZac]

I owe Keith a lot!

[@marktlog]

I've just bought a '59 Harvard, and I am loving your content. The one you did playing the Steve Cropper-ish parts made me glad the amp was on its way. A great, great tone.

[@AskZac]

Enjoy!

[@dnortonames]

Great video. They are both such great amps. I have well known builder clones of both the 5e3 Deluxe and the 5f10 Harvard, but my Harvard is in a Deluxe sized cabinet and sports the same 12" alnico speaker as I have in my Deluxe. In that configuration, I really lean toward the Harvard as the more versatile of the two. It has a lot more clean headroom and grinds a lot more in the overdrive like early 70s Stones. But still, it doesn't make me love the 5e3 any less and the two amps are different enough that it truly is a "why not both" situation.

[@robertgunning9667]

I recently rewatched your original Harvard video (thanks for replying about the NOS RCAs!) and began to wonder about a Harvard vs the 5E3 types

[@roscoenyc]

Enjoyed it a lot. There's a company called Louis Electric that made a model for Mountain Cat Guitars called the HD12. It's a pretty simple amp but it has 2 voices in the pre-amp section. One channel Deluxe and one channel Harvard. Comes with a pine cabinet. I borrowed one once for a couple weeks and liked it a whole lot. It wasn't over designed and it worked fine with a band. On that amp it seemed that the Harvard side had a little more headroom. Both amps sounded great. Your Deluxe seems to be an exceptional one.

[@lastofthe4horsemen279]

Killer Vintage in St Louis has a few Louis Electric one head and cabinet configuration. Have not played through them but they look awesome

[@roscoenyc]

@@lastofthe4horsemen279 I've played a few of the Louis Electric amps and found most of them, especially the Buster, do have that over designed/over built quality. The HD12 was very different to play through.

[@michaelshearer3559]

I have been really wanting that HD12. Lou does great work!

[@garybratton7756]

Once again, doing the lord’s work…thanks for all these fantastic comparisons, Zac!

[@jltrem]

I don't know about the lord's work but Zac is definitely doing Leo's work.

[@michaelshearer3559]

I need both of these in my life, but would prefer a Harvard first. The cool thing is you can pick up a Deluxe type build for fairly cheap...thanks for sharing. It really allowed me to hear the tone and sonics well.

[@Where_Have_All_My_Files_Gone]

Interesting, I really loved the Deluxe. Sounded a lot more hi-fi.

[@chucksguitarshop]

I had both in my early 20's! I used a Rick Turner built Alembic stereo guitar through them for the most part but also a Les Paul Pro with 2 P-90's. Both great amps. Unfortunately my Harvard was stolen. Serial #0074 as I recall but it was many years ago. :-) Great commentary, very knowledgeable. Thinking back my Deluxe was an early wide panel serial #0128. My Mom bought it for me when i was 12 for $200 lol These amps spoiled me for life in terms of sensitivity

[@chucksguitarshop]

Funny, in the 80's before these gems were fashionable I'd walk into a multi-billed club with a Tele in one hand and my Deluxe in the other while guys were pushing full stacks in the front door. The sound guys at the end of the shows would always marvel at my set-up lol they couldn't get any kind of mix out of the monstrosities so many guys were playing but they could really get me to sit in a mix. I'd like to think i had something to do with the lore that has fallen on these amps so many years later 🙂

[@erickaymusic]

Great video here Zac! I however wonder how accurate what we are hearing here is. The Deluxe is pointed straight at your phone and the Harvard is way off axis. From the first chords, the Harvard sounds kinda muffled. I'm very familiar with both amps but it'd be nice to see this comparison done again with a close mic and room mic on each amp to give a more honest comparison! Either way, thanks for the cool vids!

[@ColocasiaCorm]

you think he shoots this with a phone?

[@erickaymusic]

@@ColocasiaCorm He says in other videos that he just shoots these videos with his iPhone. There clearly aren't any mics on the cabs. Even with a room mic, I'd only put them 1-2ft away from the speaker to get an honest comparison.

[@kanga-blue]

@@ColocasiaCorm if it's an iPone their mics are every high quality and they don't overload easily.

[@joncaradies3155]

Great video ! When you turned up the Deluxe to 10 (to make it a little more fair) , you played this Chuck Berry type rhythm that tonally brought to mind Ronnie Wood from the Faces era .... Sounded Great !!!!

[@larrypower8659]

Quite a difference between the two. I like the Deluxe (maybe cuz I have one and figured out what it does best) mainly for the 12” spkr and its broader tone spectrum. The Deluxe is a better pedal platform to my ears, and it also really blooms with humbuckers. That surprised me most. I tried all single coil Fenders then a 345, SG Special (P-90s) and finally a Les Paul. The Gibsons really opened up and became more musical. Both cool amps, though. Nice demo, Zac.

[@allstopblue5717]

Yeah I have to agree a deluxe sounds better with a variety of pickups including humbuckers. For me personally I don’t play live so I would still go with the Harvard, but I agree I think the deluxe is more versatile and accepts a variety of guitars whereas the Harvard seems to only shine with single coil

[@christianjimbomb8204]

I rebuilt my 5e3 clone that someone else built. The best thing about the amp when I got it was the weber 125A speaker. The rest was not done correctly. I did increase the capacitance of two of the filter caps. 22uf. Instead of 16uf. Measured the caps to see the actual values. And being able to try many RCA AND GE Tubes was the real key to getting this deluxe to sound 3-D and perform wounderful. It is a keeper. I have and have built many amps. I think I have 25 amps. Most are up forsale or vintage collectables.

[@howardskinner4916]

How 'bout a comparison between the Deluxe and a Mojotone 5E3 Deluxe kit amp? Mojotone goes to a lot of trouble to replicate the 50's Fender amp. I have built one and I like it, so I'd like to hear their kit compared to an original. Keep up the good work!

[@kenbash2951]

Great demo- thx. The Harvard sounds like music from 1953 to me:)

[@leighiansonmusic9688]

Great video, thanks Zac! I have a ‘60 tweed deluxe and it starts to overdrive way before the one you demonstrated. At 10 it’s in full saturation, I love it. I’ll have to add a Harvard to the collection soon

[@davidkieltyka9]

Are you using a 12AY7, per Fender’s intent, in the amp’s first gain stage or a 12AX7? A 12AX7 will have a lot more gain and will break up easier.

[@leighiansonmusic9688]

@@davidkieltyka9 I’ve used both a 12ay7 and a 12ax7 and even with the ay7 it still has more gain with a Tele. I currently have a 12ax7 in my deluxe because I like the dirt

[@mintygreen8760]

Oh wow you did a video on the tweed Deluxe!

[@satanbane]

Wow, very interesting, quite different sounds. To me, the most obvious difference was much more high end on the Deluxe. In comparison, the Harvard sounded like you had rolled off the guitar tone control rather drastically. I wanted to note, it would help if you had lights over each amp to show which is active, or perhaps just annotations added during editing. Although the tones were so different, I could usually figure out which one you had switched to. Also, a camera down-shot on the controls would help (or maybe just a tilted boudoir mirror for that low-budget vibe); I'm guessing when you refer to numbers on the settings, those were on the old Fender 1-12 scale? Anyway, thanks for this, and for all of your work.

[@hearpalhere]

Wow, so cool Zac! They both sounded fantastic but for me the Deluxe takes the cake! When you hit those rock and roll palm muted chords on it, that is THE sound for me :-) Love it.

[@335gc]

Very interesting to find out the difference between the two amplifiers. Great video Zac!

[@AskZac]

Thanks!

[@stringbendeification]

Hey Zak, You've done another great show, right? Thanks so much. I'll bet I'm not the only one who wants to hear the Deluxe and the Harvard together! What a sound that would be on stage or anywhere for that matter. As always, I look forward to your next video. Keep 'em comin'!

[@anthonyrichard461]

I have both as well, Dig the Harvard more.

[@tgsiii2179]

Thanks for this, Zac......one request I have is that when you're comparing two amps, using an A/B pedal, that you somehow indicate when switching from one to another. Sometimes it wasn't obvious you had changed, and we (at least ME) got confused...... Off topic a little, but for many years everyone thought John Lennon had used a Tweed Deluxe in The Beatles' early days. It was later established definitively that he used a Tweed Tremolux. VERY similar in appearance, but different. Thanks again, Zac.

[@AskZac]

Noted!

[@magnusberger6762]

Great demo. I prefer the Deluxe. Much more open, present and less boxy in my ears. The Harvard could be nice in some settings, though! The two combined would be nice, with the Harvard for rhythm and deluxe for lead.

[@charlescopeland1436]

I may not be using the correct terminology, but I think I hear more complexity or roundness out of the Deluxe. The Harvard seems a bit flatter from what I can hear. In single note playing, particularly, the Deluxe seems to provide a more complex and robust tone. Could just be me though. Very interesting and informative comparison - great job, Zac!

[@AdamJohnSwenson]

I thought so too, FWIW

[@lanetacker1496]

You should run the Les Paul threw them. Thanks for the great content man

[@andypearce5537]

Great info as always!

[@AskZac]

Glad it was helpful!

[@mooseymoose]

Slightly off topic, but related to the supply of tubes… have you heard the new Quilter Superblock US? They have finally broken me of my tube habit, which I never thought would happen. Simply amazing reproduction of the 57, 61, and 65 Deluxe. The 57 position is the only one that doesn’t *perfectly* replicate the tone of the original, but I think it’s actually better sounding. They are perhaps a bit less loud than the originals, but 25w is plenty for my needs. I actually run them off my pedal power at 1w most of the time, also a super cool feature. Did I mention they only cost $250? Completely bonkers!

[@AskZac]

I will do some looking

[@ZacCostilla]

I like the Deluxe, but love the Harvard. BUT, I really want to build a 5E5 Pro with a 15” speaker

[@giambu]

Very interesting video! Also if we disagree about my idea that a Stratocaster is more a solo guitar than a Telecaster (your answer was “Opposite”), I must tell you that videos like this are for me extremely interesting because do a comparative story of tweed amps that explain there differences but, over all, because you expressed in a very clear way their differences using expressions like “more focused”. That was the impression that I had hearing an amp self made by a friend front of my modded Champ 12 ( with Celestion Alnico Blue and new NOS tubes). Thank you, because explain an impression that I had inside me about a kind of sound with words, was very useful for me!

[@StephenSpelman]

I watched this while listening through the amazing ATC monitors in my studio -- gotta say that the neck pickup on your Esquire through the Deluxe Reverb (with volume at 5) sounded simply incredible. To me, that was the best of all the tones you demonstrated. Thanks for a really interesting video.

[@AskZac]

That Deluxe is fantastic!

[@markpassell8379]

Great video! The 6AT6 in the Harvard is a single triad with a gain factor of 60. The Deluxe gets a 12AY7 dual triad with a gain factor of 45. Also, keeping the mic channel at zero while plugged into the Instrument channel gives more compression and earlier breakup in the Deluxe. I never have to turn mine past 3. Deluxe’s are a handful sometimes and I’m sure that Harvard is much easier to control.

[@AskZac]

Thanks for the info!

[@roncarter2188]

Listening to this with my Beats Headphones on made me want to go out and buy one these amps. Beautiful sounding!

[@nationalduo4945]

My favourite video of yours to date…love these amps but in Canada very hard to find, so I’m a tweed valco guy, great amps….check out CLAPTONS From The Cradle To The Grave Tour….he has a little tweed National Valco on a chair behind him the entire time, must be something to them 👍 I guess everything is subjective but I prefer the Harvard, strange….and I figured that out before you gave your opinion lol….cheers..

[@WillyKidd]

Really dug this shootout, Zac. Those are two incredible sounding amps. I have a '62 Princeton which is similar in response (so I'm told) to a Harvard and I definitely enjoy it for studio type applications. I'd love to get a chance to check out a tweed Deluxe one of these days.

[@rikkousa]

@Will Van Hansolo Like you, I have a 62 Princeton and appreciate the difference vs. my 64 DR--I now understand the similarity to the Harvard. So fascinating to hear the amps side-by-side

[@WillyKidd]

@@rikkousa my main road amp for a long time has been a '76 SFDR with a Weber 12F150, and I love how the two amps have contrasting tones. I use my '62 Princeton more for home and studio playing.

[@christopher-miles]

can you run them through the same cabinet? with the same speaker? cool video. cheers!

[@roverer109]

Great vid as usual. Thanks. It's great to be able to hear these unobtainable amps (for us regular folks). May I suggest a blackface vs. silverface comparison since you have great resources? I guess you have to use a couple of Deluxes, but any popular model would be interesting - Pro-reverb....

[@seanlotz9581]

Great video; the Harvard doesn't get the love it deserves from so many!! Can you provide the link in the comments here for the tube vendor you mentioned? As always, thanks again for the awesome content and thoughts concerning both of these amps!

[@AskZac]

reverb.com/shop/audio-tubes-direct

[@seanlotz9581]

@@AskZac Thanks!

[@twb1178]

Great video! Here is an idea I would love to see...a shootout between the Tweed Deluxe and your Deluxe Reverb. Apples and oranges, I know, but would be interesting nonetheless

[@AskZac]

Cool idea!

[@SSRT_JubyDuby8742]

Great as always, a very noticeable difference, which I found surprising. 😎🎙🎸✅

[@lastofthe4horsemen279]

Zac your channel is the best my friend. Always informative and always a good time. Once again great playing. Both amps sound amazing but the Deluxe really brought the heat today.

[@aladinin]

Thank mate.. good video and info..! You mentioned the Tremolux. My understanding is the 5g9 Tremolux is very unique and shares a phase inverter stage like the bigger tweed amps. From what i`ve heard on demo`s the 5g9 reminds me of 5f6 Bassman tone. All tweeds are unique in their own way...but that 5g9 has something special going on.

[@guitareveryone]

Love those amp comparisons Zac. Have you had a chance to test out and compare one of Phil Bradbury’s Little Walter amps? It would be interesting to hear a comparison between one of those combo amps with a Fender amp. The Little Walter amps seem very popular with some of the Nashville cats down there. Great episode.

[@electricj5]

The Octal Little Walters are a copy of the ‘53 5B6 Bassman, (50 watt 6L6). Amazing amps and quite different from either of these. I do prefer the 5B6.

[@electricj5]

Although the original was more like 26 watts.

[@bobdekett]

what a great demo! your really captured the differences between these 2 fabulous amps - very different, very cool...

[@AskZac]

Many thanks!

[@lewisgeyer1440]

Fascinating! Thank you. Now the elephant in the room, what's up with the black pickguard? ;-)

[@AskZac]

for fun

[@YouTubeHandlesAreMoronic]

From the first chords, I vastly prefer the Deluxe. I'll always go with a "open" sound over "boxy" or "nasal."

[@Gma7788]

It's a High fidelity metal string vibration sound. Or It's a low fidelity metal string vibration sound.

[@JP1AO]

Yes I like the Harvard better too. Great comparison. I like that you taught me the differences between fixed and biased. I'm wanting to build a kit that will be used at home, and this really points me in the right direction. Thank you. :)

[@jaybe813]

This was GREAT! So cool that they are so close in age etc. Very different from each other. A huge help to anyone looking for these old amps, to hear how they sound in comparison to each other.

[@heikopfister9739]

I am wondering how much is the difference between the 10" and the 12" Speaker. And how a 2x10 Harvard might sound. Feels like the small cab and little speaker surface is still holding the Harvard back. I can't believe it's being the circuit or cathode vs fixed bias giving the Harvard the somewhat darkish sound.

[@MrKaufmana1]

Hey Zac! I really dog this video. That Esquire sounds great and I dig the new pickguard (it has strong Vince Gill vibes). I really wanted to here you play both amps at once, and to hear you patch the channels together on the Deluxe! This was a fun video, I learned a ton (I'm still searching for a Harvard for myself)

[@clintledford1392]

Thanks Zac. That was fun.

[@AskZac]

Thank you, Clint!!

[@soapboxearth2]

I built a deluxe and didn't bond with it. Then I did some of the dumble mods, still, not so sure. But i play a les apul so.... ive leaned toward 5f2 5f6a and plexis.. The harvard would be a nice build to try.

[@TeiscoCurlee]

Wow, you're getting some really fantastic sounds here. The Tele (or Esquire) through a classic tweed amp is just unbeatable!

[@KristopherCraig]

I would have liked hear them both together. They sound like they would really compliment each other.

[@Gma7788]

HiFi and LoFi are polar opposites. Only the HiFi will be heard.

[@thewagnalls1970]

Great video thanks for posting! I've had a lot of experience with both and always, there's something about the Harvard that just grabs me. I love it!

[@aevans692]

the Harvard is nice , I have a Princeton with a 10'... but the Deluxe gets the win ... great vid ..

[@chipsterb4946]

Fantastic comparison! 😎 You didn’t mention the interaction between the tone and volume controls on the Deluxe. That’s a key feature of the Tweed Deluxe and often misunderstood. BTW that tube distributor did you wrong with the Sovtek “5Y3” rectifier. It isn’t a 5Y3 inside (basic structure is different) and the voltage drop is much less that a vintage 5Y3. You may be perfectly happy with the sound, but IIRC putting a vintage 5Y3 in a Tweed Princeton dropped the voltages 30 or more. Makes a clearly audible difference.

[@AskZac]

I will rectify that!

[@chipsterb4946]

@@AskZac best pun ever! 😜 made my day!

[@ampman3228]

I think my 60’ deluxe has the best clean tone of all my amps. Plugged into the instrument channel say volume at 5. Turn the un used mic volume to 10 1/2. It sucks the mids out....cleans the tone up. I think I like that tone more than the 5e3 pushed into overdrive out of my amp. My 61’ 6g3 deluxe is my favorite of the two and it has the same ot as my 60’ 5e3.

[@bobk7118]

Great side by side…..interesting to hear the difference…especially on the low strings,and of course that sweet note blossom on the high end of that Harvard…..love that 57 as always…..diggin the change in tone from that black pickguard!! Lol

[@AskZac]

The pigment makes the tone better

[@surfneptune]

Great job! I want to hear both in tandem! That would be IT! They both have their yummy tones. I would be hard pressed to choose between therm for sure.

[@iannicholls7476]

Crikey, that Deluxe sounds good! The Harvard has that little bit of “hair” that you can hear on some of Steve Cropper’s playing (Walking the Dog, for example). I don’t think I’m ever going to be able to lay my hands on a genuine Tweed Deluxe but do you have any thoughts on some of the modern kits that are now available? Also have you ever tried a Hahn T-style?

[@AskZac]

There are some great kits out there. Never played a Hahn

[@matthewf1979]

Those Sovtek 5Y3's are notorious for running like a 5AR4/GZ34. Check the bias on the Harvard. I hope I'm wrong and they fixed the specs. That might be why it "woke the amp up".

[@BOBBRADLEYCHANNEL]

Old tweed, just beautiful.

[@gobigrey9352]

I really want to see that esquire with a white gaurd. It seems like maybe you did a video on this though. Dang memory lol

[@mikecamps7226]

Zac your comparison is good but your details of it are missing key points between the 2 amps. The main difference in tonality as you are hearing it.....is because the Deluxe is using a .1uf coupling capacitor on the first pre-amp tube which is essentially the sonic filter for frequency's that will pass........the Harvard is using a .02uf coupling capacitor which will let less low end pass, AND hence the difference in tonality. Tonality is in the Pre-amp and less in the power amp section......the power amp section makes what is coming from the pre-amp LOUDER ! AND this brings up the cathodyne phase inverter as they both have the same phase inverter type.......the exception is that the Harvard lacks a cathode bypass capacitor on the first stage of the phase inverter which affects its tonality and gain there......where as the Deluxe has the bypass cap on the cathode which will enhance its tonality combined with the .1uf coupling cap on the first tube linking it to the phase inverter. BUT there is still one more difference and that is a situation of a feedback loop which effectively would tame down an amplifier and its power amp section.......The Deluxe has NO FEEDBACK LOOP........and the Harvard HAS a FEEDBACK LOOP. >>>>>>should both amps be altered to have their pre-amps made the same as far as component values and feedback loops.......and not forgetting the bypass cap on the phase inverter, THAT IS WHEN a better comparison could be made....strictly to demonstrate the difference between a cathode biased amp and a fixed biased amp. BUT there also is a difference in the power rail feeding power to the power tubes which will affect response......and that is the relationship of the voltage supply to the power tube PLATES and the power tube SCREENS. This is what controls what you mention as "COMPRESSION" in the cathode biased Deluxe......there is a far greater voltage difference in the power rail feeds between the plates and screens due to the size of the dropping resistor in the power rail separating the 2 power tube components.......where as the Harvard is just using a 470 ohm resistor which would cause the Plates and Screens to have nearly the same exact voltage on each component....with the Screens just slightly less than the Plates. Technically this is what Fender decided to do in the Tolex era post 1960 amplifiers which made them sound different and have more power.....the higher the power tube plate voltages of the tubes maximum per the Tube Data Sheet from the manufacturer.....the less tube life but also a more linear and cleaner but harsher and brighter and brittle response. Whether it be a 6L6 or a 6V6....the book has 400 volts on the plates as a maximum value....and fender began to exceed that in the Tolex era....gets up on an average to 465 plate volts and at times approaching 500 volts in the CBS years though CBS padded down the gain factor in the modern phase inverters....the long tail pair type. But that's not taking in the factor of how the fixed bias power tube section was set for bias.....whether it was cold biased or hot biased to 70% dissipation. Most Fender amps were not biased close to 70% and were technically cold which would exaggerate a clean response...specially in the CBS years with the soft phase inverters among other factors. The juicy era was the TWEED era.......but that's was an era of evolution in electronics.....Tweed designs change on average every 2 years from the first series amps up to 1959/60 and the transition to TOLEX and the long tail pair phase inverter design. The 1950's designation went from the "A" series all the way through to the "F" series......6 letters over a span of about 10 years.

[@jips123]

I like the way you explain these differences and the clear precise playing. Btw what do you think of the Strymon Iridium for recording purposes?

[@AskZac]

I own one, and if you buy some better IR's for $8 or so, you can take it up a notch or 3.

[@jips123]

@@AskZac I have several ir’s. What do you recommend?

[@AskZac]

@@jips123 I like those of V30s for the Deluxe, and silver alnico's for the Vox

[@patnichols1463]

I switched the jensens in my Deluxes to celestion bulldogs. They really make them breath a lot better.

[@mudnducs]

It’d be nice if you told us when you changed amps and which one we were hearing. 🙂

[@kanga-blue]

lol if you listen with studio quality headphones or monitors its very easy to tell which is which. I think its much BETTER he says nothing once he starts playing as if a presenter speaks your ears reference to the sound of their voice which messes up the AB comparison. He does usually tell you at the start which he is starting with first. In fact because of the way he does this it is the BEST AB tone comparison on youtube.

[@markhammer643]

With these "student model" amps being named for Ivy League schools, it kind of makes one wonder where the "Brown sound" came from. ;-)

[@AskZac]

Ha!

[@Davimre]

The Harvard sounds like a record.

[@PeteBasel]

It would be very interesting to hear the amps through the same 12" speaker.

[@audiotechlabs4650]

Zac I have to say after listening to this comparison,I am glad I have a 1957 Deluxe! It just sounds so much more crisp and dynamic. What happens if you change the 5E3 to fixed bias like the Harvard? Will that tighten up the lows without changing the overall sound? Would that also change the power output? I am in the middle of a full restoration of my 5E3, by the way, it was already changed before I got it, and I want to get every bit of goodness out of it in the end. Love the channel and your other channel to! Love from the Rocky Mountains. Thanxz

[@MBBerard1]

Me and my ‘59 Princeton like this video!

[@TommySG1]

Another fun video, thanks Zac. The Deluxe sounded a bit more treblie to me. Both sounded real nice though.

[@jfar3340]

Great demo! No comparison, the deluxe completely outshines the harvard. The sound is fuller, sweet top end, smoother break up, it's more lush; no wonder it was more popular than the harvard. Having played both in person, I can also add that in person there is a HUGE difference due to the cab and the 12 inch speaker in the deluxe. The deluxe cab resonates like no other cabs, a true gem.

[@brianingram2068]

There's also output section feedback in the Harvard, and no negative feedback in the Deluxe. That impacts the transition from clean to distortion (more abrupt with feedback), and the amp's control over the speaker's movement at bass frequencies (tighter control with feedback).

[@johnhenfrey5936]

Really enjoyable Zac, I preferred the sound of the, Deluxe to be honest.

[@larryyork1146]

The Harvard sounds like it almost has a noise gate on it which is the sound I prefer. It’s not shrill and the attack is slightly muffled. I would choose the Harvard.

[@redbone6950]

I feel the need for tweed. Also lighter easier to carry (no reverb).

[@wartimemodels]

He says that first chord at 8:20 is an E. Can someone help me with the fingering? I'm having a hard time seeing it clearly.

[@AskZac]

5th string 5th fret, 4th string 6th fret, 3rd string 6th fret, 2nd string 5th fret. 6th and first strings open.

[@wartimemodels]

@@AskZac thanks!

[@K-Gits]

I have the Victoria Amp versions 20112 (Deluxe) and Ivy League (Harvard). Both great amps but I find the 5F10 likes Fender Single coils more than my P-90 and Humbucker Gibsons. Deluxe shines with P-90s!

[@anthonyz7000]

Fantastic comparisons! How would a fairly modern tweed Fender Blues Jr compare to that lineup?

[@AskZac]

Very different animal, but great. I like the Pro Jr better.

[@donhall2759]

Also, what about the tone stack difference? That Deluxe system is a mid-scooping sonofagun compared to the single tone control on that Harvard. That's what I hear in the comparison. Thanks for a chance to listen to some unobtanium.

[@stevekirby7333]

Really interesting. I saw the other Harvard video but the difference between it and the Deluxe is striking. In the cranked comparison the Harvard reminds me of the old Watkins Dominator, or to a lesser extent a Marshall 18W. Have you ever played either of those? The Watkins in particular has this very narrow, almost stuffy sound that was used on a bunch of late '60s rock records and I couldn't figure out for the longest time how they did it.