Assault 'Mech Shootout Part 2: Atlas AS7-D vs King Crab KGC-0000

[@stormcrow28]

The King Crab and the Atlas have one pt of difference for alpha striking capacity, assuming all missile clusters hit. Frankly the KC needs the LRM 15 replaced with something else, so you can add in more AC/20 ammo, heat sinks, and a direct fire weapon.

[@jonskowitz]

King Krab uses "Dual AC20s!" Opponent counters with "Flurry of Ones!"

[@matthewneuendorf5763]

I'm not surprised that the Atlas gets a slight edge in nearly every area. I'm also not surprised that the edge is so slim that you could easily pick either depending on context. My own experiences with these mechs are mostly in the various PC games. In MWO at least I've found that the Atlas just has a little bit of something extra that pushes it into a superior place as an anchor and a command mech. I'm sure there's a significant bias there on my part, too, given that the Atlas has offered me some of my best Mechwarrior experiences. Back in the pre-Clan 8v8 days, to pick one example, most of my team ran off to mix it up with the enemy while I and a light hung back to defend our base (OG Frozen City). A solo hostile came through the tunnel and killed the guy who'd stayed with me, though I killed him right back. In the mean time, one enemy light had suicided into our team (a Jenner IIRC), and then the rest of their drop wiped out everyone else, leaving us down 1v6. My teammates were complaining in chat and starting to quit, but then the first enemies showed themselves. They played like Hollywood Ninja, coming at me one at a time, until I'd eliminated everyone except a single Catapult. I was essentially destroyed, with just a medium laser in the CT in full stick zombie mode, and he was out of LRMs and had only light energy weapons left. We were stalking each other through the buildings. In the end, we each turned a corner, saw one another, and fired. Draw. Simultaneous kill shots. I ended with 7 kills. It was glorious.

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

Hahah man I love stories like that. Reminds me of my old MW4 league days. 😢😀

[@rylian21]

I prefer the KGC, myself. While the Atlas can put out more damage overall, it's far more spread out than the King, which will just blow chunks out of anything.

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

Yah I agree, and part of why I picked it as my winner! Landing 40 damage on anything is devastating.

[@MrDmitriRavenoff]

If you aren't playing Succession Wars, immediately replace the AC-20s with Gauss Rifles. 10 DHS, an ER LL or ERPPC replaces the LL and the LRM-15 stays. Now the KC is a an amazing long range fire support mech. Completely changes the dynamic of how it is played, but makes it more useful IMHO.

[@vensersrevenge8739]

Great video! The King Crab is hilariously good at killing one or two 'Mechs. But then it's all but worthless. In lance on lance games that most people play, that's fine. Killing your opponents two biggest 'Mechs is more than good enough. But in universe, the prevalence of infantry and vehicles that the King Crab is less effective against really hurts it. The Atlas has a ton of flaws as well, but it is better balanced and can do somewhat better against enemies that are not heavy or assault 'Mechs that the King Crab is explicitly built to kill.

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

Banshee FTW haha. Love that diverse arsenal.

[@DIEGhostfish]

Speaking of King Crabs and infantry. Yet another mechlab mechs for MW5 adds a king crab with 6 quad LMG arrays, 2 Plasma Rifles and an MRM30

[@stormcrow28]

Now we need to see the ultimate matchup. Atlas vs Flea.

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

Be sure to watch our latest campaign... the mercs brought a Flea and it was a deadly weapon 😁

[@stormcrow28]

Now the Imp, the Annihilator and the Marauder II would also be good tests to reflect against. As for earlier or later era units, the "Eggs of Doom" (Ostol, Ostroc, Flashman, Spartan, Shogun, War Dog, Ostwar, the Stalker etc) would be fun, since you can really make a great baker's dozen out of them...

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

lol “eggs of doom” ... love it

[@ConfusedShelf]

Hey man. Just want to say I really enjoy these videos. I don’t play the tabletop game but I’m a big fan of the lore, books and computer games so these almost help me get into the mindsight of the characters when they might come up against the featured ‘Mechs.

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

Thanks for the comment! Appreciate that and glad you’re enjoying. 👍

[@czarvak9186]

Ok that's it. You need to film a battle report Banshee and King Crab vs Highlander and Atlas. My money is on the Highlander and Atlas. ALL THE WAY!

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

I will consider this 😁👍

[@Dmorris556]

Problem I have with the KC is it is not a good closer. 2.5 shots per ac20 in end game is not enough to get the job done. Those ML and SRM6 on the Atlas pays off end game with the AC20. Survivability means jack when you are at turn 8 and last man on your force with a LL vs the other guy having 2 ML and an SRM6 with 5-7 shots of ac-20 left.

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

Your point is good - but don’t forget it has 5 shots per AC/20. Still not a lot, though, a little better if you alternate fire until you are able to get a killshot. Still - this mech is very prone to ammo shortages and not ideal in larger games. And to your point, if it can’t get the job done fast, it’s a very expensive LLas. 😁

[@Dmorris556]

I am assuming there are a few AC shots mid game to kill off other mechs on the board.

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

Ah yah, that makes sense to me. That thing could definitely use another ton of ammo. Or two.

[@rotwang2000]

Atlas all the way baby. I still prefer my own custom variant, either an SLDF field variant or an early Clan invasion upgrade. It's not a crazy overpowered version, but a pretty solid upgrade of the original. Swap out HS for 11 DHS, add a PPC one ton of extra LRM ammo and either an extra ton of AC ammo or CASE. It helps to give the Atlas extra oomph at range and better endurance against snipers trying to whittle you away and also at closer ranges a PPC can add some serious pain and also extends your offensive endurance in general. As for the King Crab, I like to use it as part of an attack unit to wade into the enemy and get up close. Make sure you put it next to other fire magnets like Melee mechs or Dreadnoughts like a Shootist or Hunchback so that the opponent has to make a choice and you still have threat even if they decide to blow away the KGC.

[@a6mzeke1]

Atlas, every time any time. Very close second is the Highlander. Both of those just LOOK like they intend to ruin your day.

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

Keep your eyes open for a follow up on this series! 😁

[@AdamDelderfield]

This is the correct answer.

[@BazztheBazz]

Really interesting analysis on the two behemoths. Gotta say I would have to go with the Atlas, ironically for the same reasons you went with the King Crab. On the one hand, the Atlas outclasses the King Crab in just about every category, but its BV is too high to justify it. On the other hand, the Atlas's BV is too high, but it outclasses the King Crab in just about every category. Kind of a 'glass is half-empty/glass is half-full' scenario. Except the glass is a 100-ton Battlemech.

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

Love it! I think I agree with you 100%. Tough to pick a real winner here!

[@Ungeboren1988]

I'm curious what the outcome would be if you compare the standard with the SLDF royal version of the same mech this way.

[@Boseeinsteinshake]

I think the KGC really needs that advanced tech. The KGC 00b might not add much through FF armor and Artemis. But the doubled ammo for the AC 20s and the 12 double heat sinks are amazing!.

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

Stay tuned for an upcoming review of the Clan Buster variant (KGC-001). Twin Gauss is beastmode.

[@ndr2q]

Personally, I’m not surprised by the results here. The King Crab is more of a psychological terror weapon than it is a practical, optimized BattleMech. I believe Wargamer Fritz said it best, that the KGC-0000 is an “area denial weapon.” You put the KGC somewhere on the table, and it basically projects a 9” bubble that nobody would ever be stupid or reckless enough to enter, unless they are forced to by the mission objectives. Just due to the sheer fear factor of having to face the double AC/20s. I think the psychological impact of a KGC on your opponent is huge. That said, I think it simply has too many disadvantages (low ammo, poor crit padding, primary weapons split in the arms & torso, extreme close range) to really topple one of the best 3025 assault mechs, in general practical usage. It is so all-in on AC/20s that it ends up being impractical, but that’s kind of the point. The Atlas, on the other hand, is much better optimized, with more sinks, more armor, and better crit padding of its ammo. I also prefer the torso mounts for the primary weapons, which makes the Atlas harder to disable. I will say though, that I think the risk of ammo explosions in the KGC in this statistical analysis is maybe a little high, only because in an actual battle the King Crab runs out of ammo so fast, that its bins are usually empty or near empty by the time it’s armor is breached. In my experience, anyway.

[@jz9261]

Excellent video as always. I personally prefer Stalkers and Annihilators for assaults every day of the week. STK-3F up front and ANH-1E over the back spamming PPCs. Of the 4 reviewed I would go the Atlas for reliability.

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

That ANH-1E is possibly one of the best bang-for-buck mechs in the game... I am also a big fan of the Stalker though!

[@jz9261]

@@DeathfromAboveWargaming For sure. To me the Stalker is a super reliable go to mech that can anchor the main line to keep the ANH-1E safe and spamming as it does have reduced armour and no speed

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

Yeah - the more I think about it, it’s a pretty terrifying pairing! You’ll want to try and knock out the 1E but if the 3F is left unchecked to waltz into close range, it’s just a monster. I’ll have to try this combo out *rubs hands together*

[@JoshuaFoy]

Atlas can strike at all ranges effectively and works on more maps, and if you consider longer campaigns that survivability does play a large role.. Crab can have difficulty closing on some targets and has difficulty striking when attacked at the flanks, and furthermore the crab is a feast or famine mech where a single miss means you have lost 20 percent of the ammo on your ac-20s. Atlas is just a more all rounded mech. Not to say the crab can't shine, but it is much more limited.

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

Great assessment, and I agree. I love the KGC ... but it is really boom or bust. As some others guys noted, the ammo shortage can also be problematic. Two great mechs! Love the comments and appreciate you weighing in!!

[@czarvak9186]

Yes! FINALLY bring it on! (Ok to watch later just had to comment since I recommend it and have been begging for it)

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

Haha enjoy!!

[@fezenclop]

Not sure about in the board game, but in the PC game the King Crab is nice, but the Atlas owns the battlefield. More survivable, massive damage, and when you get heat buildup, punch out the other mech's center torso or knock off an arm or two.

[@brandonbackup873]

It's also just more versatile, being able to fight effectively in almost any situation, whereas the King Crab is much narrower in its mission profile.

[@KeystoneCarcajou]

Thug vs Warhammer needs to be a thing. Thug Life versus the machine it was intended to replace.

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

Sounds like a good t-shirt opportunity 😁

[@pokepete3]

Awesome job analyzing these two! Thanks

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

Thank you for watching!!

[@PhillyT1977]

I love this one. Atlas is literally better in every way, still picks the Crab 😅. In all honesty, I have multiples of both and they are both great in 3025 but the Atlas is more constant and can brawl without really losing much of his offense. The crab as too few rounds of ammo. Unless it’s a scenario setting as you mentioned, a clever player can constantly be moving away, forcing medium range, running shots from that desperate crab player. This old shoot out was great. Can you do another at some point?

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

It could happen!!

[@Z-S-H]

I like the Atlas better just because it is more useful in multiple scenarios where I see the King Crab being more of a specialized mech scenario wise. I like the ability the Atlas gives to adapt tactically to the organic nature of the way a game is unfolding. Yes it cost more in BV but it also gives me more tactical options

[@MrDmitriRavenoff]

King Crab is three Urbies in a trench coat. Meant for city fighting or a duel and not much else IMHO.

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

Hahah this is freaking amazing. That visual will never leave my brain.

[@mathewkelly9968]

Give me a Banshee and Highlander vs an Atlas and King Crab any day

[@MrDmitriRavenoff]

Atlas suffers from minimal long range damage. Of all 3 I would take an AWESOME! Yes they suck at point blank, but you're looking at the same performance as the Banshee at long to medium range and your goal is to keep the enemy there. Keep him approaching you. One on one, Banshee wins. With any support? Awesome.

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

Agree - too slow for all those short range weapons… stay at 10 hexes and it’s worse than a Catapult.

[@andrewnavarro1185]

My two favorite mechs (I love the Atlas -WGS and the KGC-001). I loved the one battle you had with the FedCom KGC-001; you could really see how hard those Gausses hit when they one-tap the enemy mechs from range.

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

Yes! Such a great variant, and makes the King Crab so much more viable!

[@Camboprime]

Great breakdown as always... but these two beasts may have isolated 2 issues on the offensive diagram... The Javalin might not be the best indicator here.... maybe choose a standard mech per weightclass, as does a quick death of the target mech skew numbers in favour of ammo dependent mechs? Theoretically heat is the supposed equalizer on big guns and ammo dependence, but that only shows after a few turns. Also there's no graph/stat that represents the ammo dependence of a mech.... RAC's and UAC will score high, without a graph that indicates the short lifesan of these weapons systems enegy boats will be descriminated against.

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

Good points! Keep in mind the lethality tests and offensive benchmarks do track ammo, so that KCG does run out in these tests.

[@Semmarv]

Interestingly, I'd give the king crab a very slight extra edge using the dice-rolling system you guys use. 40 points of damage is bad enough without having it all land in the same location.

[@ivorymantis1026]

I have a bias for Crab and King Crab.

[@bluemoonlunalla9747]

Another great review. The KGC seems great as long as you can use the terrain for advantage and get those ac20s into play. The Atlas is cool as ever and can slog it across the board or use the terrain to bring it's short range gear into play also. But yeah dual ac20 up close is a real threat so you have to treat it carefully to get it into position to get the best out of it. Looking forward to the next reviews guys! Oh, any chance of talking about LAMs? I'd love to see a video showing them in action as I've never seen them used.

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

Thanks! Appreciate the comments and think they are spot on. As for LAMs... maybe haha. It’s definitely not at the top of the list. I also never use them 😝

[@bluemoonlunalla9747]

@@DeathfromAboveWargaming well, one day I'd love to try out a LAM, I've got models from Robotech Tactics for when I do. Which book has the current rules for LAMs anyway?

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

Yah they are neat in concept - the rules for them are in Interstellar Ops. Have not dug into them though!

[@bluemoonlunalla9747]

@@DeathfromAboveWargaming sweet, I'll have to grab a copy sometime and have a gander.

[@vincentmaisonneuve6335]

great comparaisons, wouuld love to see a breakdown of a mauler

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

Oo yah that’s a great one. I have been hard at work on Battlytics 3.0 which will be CLAN INVASION READY 😁

[@glennferguson1265]

All good but only if every one sticks to stock Mechs, and doesn't Mod the designs like your Queen Crab I always swap the AC/20 in the ATLASS for a AC/10 of some type the increased hit chance and range makes up for the BIG PUNCH in Close.

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

Agree with you. I frequently dump AC/20s for 10s. 👍 You’ll see a similarly modified Atlas RS in our upcoming campaign vid!

[@legomech1946]

Banshee! I agree!

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

Yeeeesssss 🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟

[@hermes7587]

Both Mechs can be terrifying if you are at the receiving end but both Mechs are very narrow in their mission profile. I generally do not like the combination of short range weapons and slow speed. It takes much too much time to bring these Mechs to bear. When playing assault class Mechs, I prefer medium range, direct-fire weapons like the AC/10 and PPC or large laser (e.g. Awesome 8Q, Banshee 3S).

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

Agreed. AC/10s are one my favorite weapons - great range, low heat, decent ammo/ton.

[@czarvak9186]

ATLAS! ATLAS!

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

😛

[@AmbroseBoaBowie]

I need to remember this is not an AS7-s with 4 SRM-6, aC-20 And 4 small ER lazers and so much forward facing armor the Bismarck would blush. Yes this is m

[@vandalnoire3844]

Suggestion. I think you should start to show some art work of the techs. With the clan invasion KS there's bound to be news that can tell a wasp from a locust.

[@acetraker1988]

*Both suck in their default configs...waste of metal.* King Crab sucks more for having less customisable options and poor TT rules for crit slots on some weapons compared to HBS BT.

[@sethwicks9125]

The Atlas-AS7-D is a great mech and much more versatile than the crab. If you pull the two rear lasers off it and give an extra ton each of LRM 20's and AC/20 it's even better. What I find annoying with most the mech designs is they're not properly built. If you play the RPG (no map to run off the table on), you can pick how and when your team engages the enemy. (Then pull the maps out.) Why would anyone engage a king crab at medium/close range. Make him waste his shots on fast moving mechs. The nice thing about the Atlas is it's got such thick armor; one can carry infernos and force someone like the king crab to either single punch with those AC/20's or overheat and shut down/ammo explosions. Ideally the Atlas' best role is bodyguard for archers hidden in the woods. Again, with the archers pull out those rear lasers and add 2 tons of LRM 20 ammo. Always have someone capable guard your indirect fire support and make your enemies fight on your terms. My general rule of thumb is Assault laces move at 3/5 (usually 4 so the resemble heavies walking). Heavies walk at 4/6 unless they're being used as your assault then some might need a 3/5 move like the marauder. Your fire lance should be 5/8/3-5 and your recon should be 6/9/6 or better. Remember what your recon is for, to spot enemies and report back, they're not made to engage on the front lines. They work great as recon and to interrupt supply lines/cause confusion. Imho too many try and ignore the rpg and focus on playing battletech like it's warhammer 40k and I've no use for battle values. You might have good/bad intel but you don't know until you show up to the fight. :D

[@Bafimar01]

Atlas and Highlander. Atlas well duhhh... I like the mobilty of the Highlander I like jumpjets

[@glennferguson1265]

I have been playing Battle Tech ever sense it came out and its been my experience that AC/20 Mechs to have any chance need a lot of armor and speed, Are it is just a sacrificial Mech you use to scare the opponent and draw their fire. As it will unless the other side doesn't know better never get to range before being focused fired.

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

Words of wisdom from a veteran!! 👍

[@jamesricker3997]

The Atlas is more versatile On the battlefield you will not just be facing assault Mechs

[@revenvrake7412]

If/When you get to covering Clan mechs I expect to laugh myself silly when you look at their BV values. You think almost 1900 is expensive? Look over at the Mad Cat and its stablemates at like 2500+ BV. Of course their firepower is completely insane to boot.

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

Hah yes. It’s a totally different game... and the efficiency (with things like double heatsinks and crazy damage) goes through the roof.

[@WhabandSheeb]

Wrong, it’s the Atlas!

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

😁 this is the classic chevy vs ford debate... love it!

[@chrisnickell2525]

and now King Crab Vs Queen Crab...hahahahaha

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

Mmm yes my favorite of all Crabs. Kevin used it against me to great effect in the last batrep. I love anything (inc the Banshee and Awesome) that can dish out 3x10 damage shots.

[@ptarmiganslayer]

I don’t get it. You spend almost 40 minutes statistically proving the Atlas is superior in almost every way and then pick the King Crab as your preferred mech at the end.

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

You do get it! The numbers told you which was statistically and objectively superior. But I subjectively just love that lethality and shock factor the KGC brings to the table. 👍

[@sethwicks9125]

@@DeathfromAboveWargaming Atlas all the way, also a true test would see the results of it fighting one mech from each weight class. The crab is good as an ambush or if some imaginary line is drawn to keep players from hit and run tactics (map edges). All the Atlas has to do is toss some infernos on the crab and he's eating the crab for breakfast lunch and dinner.

[@matthewbirdsall9518]

So much blasphemy. Voting Atlas from this duo but Banshee, Atlas, Crab, Highlander out of the bunch.

[@shawnbrouse7064]

Can you guys get some better lighting? I know you are doing this all in a man cave, but that's just a figure of speech fellas.

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

Yah not really a concern for this reviews. You should be looking at the charts and not my ugly mug. 😆 The Batreps are where we break out the box lights.

[@shawnbrouse7064]

Don't sell yourself, Brad Pitt lookalike is I have ever seen one 😁.

[@DeathfromAboveWargaming]

Bwhahaha