Astatic D-104 Microphone Update For Collins and Other Vintage Transmitter Equipment

[@1OFGODSOWN]

I own 47 of them and I Rarely Ever actually use one.I use a HEIL or EV for my.They are a Beautiful microphone and I have been owning and using them since the 60’s.👍🎙

[@w.rustylane5650]

A very nice video. I have a D-104 somewhere out in my storage shed. I've got to get out there and try to find it along with my CB radio. Thanks for posting. It's from the mid 70's. I'll have to see how the D-104 sounds hooked up to my guitar amp.

[@jamesprentice1408]

Very Nice video! Great having some comments on the old 104. I also use ONLY d-104 mics on both kenwood and Icom gear as MY voice simply works well with the 104, having tried various mics since 1959 the 104 always comes out on top with best audio for MY voice. Thanks sir!

[@danjohsnon8909]

I put a W2NEY mic to my D-104 2 years ago and with my Kenwood driving a grounded grid single 4-400a amp all QSO's have great audio. Thanks for the great information. AJ4S

[@ElPasoTubeAmps]

I think it is great that these $10-$20 condenser microphones make our vintage microphones work again. But I have to say that with vintage equipment like the Collins, it seems to me that the original D-104 element, if in good condition and a few do still exist, seems to get the most unsolicited comments of good quality audio. The Heil microphones sure sound good also but again, for the price, these W2ENY, and others, do a great job. 73

[@billmoran3812]

My first microphone circa 1965 was an Astatic model P-3 on the same push to talk stand, I think it’s a model G. The P-3 head was essentially the same element as the D-104 in a bullet shaped head. It cost me a total of $80 back then, which was a princely sum for a 13 yr old in those days. I saved for weeks to get enough money. I built a small 1 tube amplifier, I think it was a 6SN7, that I used as a little PA amp. Later on, I used it with my first AM rig after I got my General class ticket. I built a modulator for my Heathkit DX-40. Lots of fun.

[@ElPasoTubeAmps]

Bill, you are certainly a man that has a history similar to mine and we still appreciate the good quality equipment from decades ago. I was born in late 1949 so I am must be a couple of years older and got the D-104 microphone that I use today bought for me at the age of 13 just like yourself. The microphone element has been changed a few times over the years but the base is the same from day one. I am actually glad that I have saved the nine elements I showed on the video and I learned that the simple way to determine if they are worth keeping is simply to connect them to the input of an amplifier and speak into them and listen to the quality of the output. Too simple. I have also found that if you find a good one, people will still complement it on the air as having a very good communication quality sound that gets thru QRM and QSB dips. Indeed, $80 was a quite a bit of money in 1965. I like to remind younger viewers that in January 1970 I went to work as a NASA contractor in Huntsville for $125 a week and I had plenty of money. That's $3 per hour and just a couple of months away from 50 years ago. I rented a two bedroom, finished apartment for $125 a month (one bedroom was unfurnished as I had to have my radio stuff there...) Anyway, these old D-104 microphones are just so well built and classic design that they will never go away and it is nice to see that several people are making and selling upgrades to the microphone head to make them usable on the new and old equipment. It certainly seems most all of the new equipment has the "phantom" power available for these new condenser type microphones but there wasn't anything in the instructions on how to make these microphones work on equipment you and I had in the beginning with just a simple input line to the grid of a tube. I think that was my main purpose for this video but overall I don't think I did a good job at showing that. Oh well... got to keep trying 73

[@kenwilliams563]

Nice video, just bought my first ever D104, got to wire it in to a radio now and see if I need to replace the mic element

[@ElPasoTubeAmps]

Bad ceramic/crystal mic elements generally have low output and only high frequency output and sound very 'tinny". The condenser type microphones require a voltage source, that can easily be a 9v battery and mice replacement elements cost 69 cents each and sound Great. Don't give up on the beautiful D-104 handset.

[@djfrank59]

Hello David! Interesting conversion. Crystal elements have a tendency to age and eventually go totally dead. Similar with Crystal Phonograph Cartridges. It's interesting how the frequency response curve varies with different elements. However, the Condenser element mics have a very wide frequency response curve...an average of 30-15K and 20-20K. FET amplified condenser mics tend to have a hot output, and most of the time need to be attenuated to prevent over-driving the input stage. Vacuum tube condenser mics are even hotter. I've been using tube mics in the studio for many decades. i think it's a great idea to upgrade the old D-104's with Electret condenser elements. They have a very clean top end, and some even have a slight bump in the 8-10K region. Great video as always. Hope all is well :)

[@ElPasoTubeAmps]

Hi Frank - thanks for the comments. This is the first time I dug out all of the old elements and as mentioned in the video was quite surprised at the difference between each one. In essence, I think I can determine all of them to be bad and need replacing with the exception of two of them and even the two "good" ones have quite a different sound particularly in the voice range. I do have one fancy gold Electret condenser microphone that I have used before that uses a phantom power supply but it seems to be too "hifi" and too many low frequencies are not a good thing in ham radio communication so I tend to stay away from it for my transmitters. I tried a Radio Shack frequency equalizer trying to "tune" the response but that was just too much also. The Heil microphones (dynamic) seem to have a very nice voice range and the ones I have seen on KZbin need to be spoken into up very close. I am of the "fighter pilot" mentality when using a microphone and not the broadcaster type where I want the microphone on a boom two feet in front of me. In any case, I am having fun with the microphone elements and will wire the D-104/UG stand that I have coming form Ebay with the little microphone I showed in the video. I didn't see a video on KZbin showing the essential connections necessary to make these types of microphones work so I posted this video in hopes it will help others. With all this said, I figure a little bit of frequency contouring can be done with this new microphone simply with the blocking capacitor to limit LF response in order to put the most amount of power into the voice range of basically 300Hz to 3KHz. Just my thoughts on it but I am always open to suggestions.

[@jakeblues3676]

I’ve used D104’s on my Viking-II but it needed an audio amp to provide the drive needed. Over the years I’ve found with my voice being higher (Tenor) that a Turner 3 had better freq response, later I now use SM-7, Audiotechnica even senheizer with a compression to drive my Drake TX4C.

[@veggiepowered]

I'am Your Newest Subscriber Great Videos

[@stephenwalker8299]

Cant wait to get my hands on this

[@user-su5sq5ib3i]

You have some great videos I wish we were neighbour's so I could pick your brain daily lol

[@ElPasoTubeAmps]

Please note that there is an error in the schematic on the board. It is explained in the "Update" at the very top of these comments and again by viewers in the comments section.

[@MrJaz8088]

I love my Silver Eagles, i have a few with Both Choke and PTT, the one that did not have the PTT, i painted it Black with Red trim and a Metal Coke a Cola Decal

[@ElPasoTubeAmps]

They are still one of the best sounding communication quality microphones for vintage equipment to many people. Some don't like the higher pitched tone but, to my ears, I can understand the audio better than some of the popular HiFi microphones. On the other hand, when the elements go bad, the output becomes very weak and extremely high pitched which can become hard to listen to. Replacing the vintage elements with the condenser mics sold all over the Internet, they can sound good again. The condenser mics do require a 9V battery but not the amplifier found in some of the D-104 "power mics". Thanks for your comments.

[@darrell320]

Very good video have you ever removed the aluminum in the center of element to look inside

[@ElPasoTubeAmps]

No, I have never done that but I have had the center post come lose from the aluminum and I put a bit of glue back on the post and aluminum. I don't remember it helping much. Probably because the element was already pretty shot. Many elements do go bad but others work great.

[@darrell320]

@@ElPasoTubeAmps I found d104 mic head in my junk box and took a part it look good then looking a little closer to find the aluminum loose and came off I guess the glue lost it strength but when I lifted the felt it all off it look new I'm going glue every thing back together and give a try very good video you made enjoy it thank you replying so quick

[@cezarjacobson927]

Hello I just purchased a D-104 with a G Stand and I am trying to figure out how to connect the stock 4-pin cable to an XLR input. Should I solder a new cable with a female 4-pin connector on one end and XLR male on the other? Appreciate any advice!

[@ElPasoTubeAmps]

I am going to assume you got the one without the amplifier so here is the schematic - I hope the link works. www.google.com/search?q=astatic+d-104+microphone+schematic&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS839US839&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=VFJcc66HMXmW3M%252CsZxmWtYqLo8uYM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kRVV6QslT7fVxlHa-uPQCtv5zblOw&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjjr-rwqs7sAhVII6wKHfiQAewQ9QF6BAgKECc&biw=1920&bih=969#imgrc=umsELXflMVr5-M In any case, the stand provides for a PTT connection (usually at the tip of a 1/4 inch phono plug) and a microphone connection. The other side of the microphone and the PTT connection is common to the ground connection on the phono plug. It should work fine with your XLR if you wire the microphone, PTT and ground for your instrument.

[@kobarrett547]

Such a beautiful mix. Would love to purchase one for use with my shack. KX3QVv

[@gayteyves5960]

Bonjour 👋 vendez vous dès D104 ou vous les refaites à neuf? Merci

[@ElPasoTubeAmps]

Je n'en ai pas à vendre ni à réparer pour le travail. Je viens de réparer le mien. Merci

[@gayteyves5960]

Ok merci et beau travail 👏 ont m’en propose un des usa 🇺🇸 mais 600e pfff

[@darrellwofford405]

the d104 doesn't continue draw current from the battery all time ,does it ? I was thing when it was not in use they no were no current in used

[@ElPasoTubeAmps]

That is true as there are two separate contacts in the D-104 when you squeeze the handle. I use one set of contacts for the PTT and the other set is used to turn the condenser mike on and off by connecting and disconnecting the battery in the base.

[@W1RMD]

I'm just trying to figure out how to remove the stupid (CB) preamp and have this sound good with my Johnson Invader 2000. When I bypass the preamp, the audio is terrible. Surely, in 1963, when the Invader was produced, they didn't really use CB as we know it and all these preamp models didn't exist. It does have good audio with the 9 volt battery installed and the preamp turned almost all the way off. The preamp is NOT necessary, but for some reason the Invader can't work well without it. What is the difference between the preamp (CB) model and non- CB early 60's models? I want to convert mine to 1963 non CB specs. Thanks and 73's W1RMD.

[@ElPasoTubeAmps]

It should definitely work without the preamp if the D-104 element is good. They do go bad and will only put out a tiny voltage when bad. That may be the issue. Just guessing. The little condenser type microphones have a FET amplifier built in and usually require a 9v battery that you can use the contacts within the D-104 stand to turn the condenser mike battery on and off. You don't want to leave it on all the time as it will run the battery down. I don't have a schematic on hand or I would send it to you but first just remove the CB preamp (I agree, they sound horrible) and look up the D-104 wiring, most is color coded and get one of the condenser mikes if you are not sure your original D-104 mike is good. I tested mine (I think I had 9 elements, if I remember correctly) by connecting each to a small solid state amp with a speaker on it and I just talked and whistled into the mike. It was easy to see which ones worked best. 73 and best of luck with your D-104. I still think they are one of the most classy microphones around. Here is something that might help and shows the amplifier. nucow.com/Microphones%20Lamps/vintage%20microphones/D104%20schematic.htm .

[@kevingray707]

A lot of confusion and hard to see what you were doing.

[@ElPasoTubeAmps]

I understand and as is obvious sometimes, my videos are seat-of-the-pants with little preparation... This was my first experience with the electret condenser microphone outside of a store-bought setup. In my past, I have just connected a microphone, be it ceramic, crystal or dynamic, straight into the input of an amplifier or transmitter. However, these new very small, and apparently very high quality microphones, require a voltage across them. In my case here, a 9 volt battery in series with a 10K ohm resistor straight across the microphone, polarity sensitive. This resistor/battery hookup powers the condenser microphone and a builtin FET amplifier. Once connection is made, it requires a capacitor, not of critical value, but in the range of 0.01 uF, (10nF) to connect to the input of the amplifier/transmitter in the standard manner. Quite a different setup from the boat-anchor simplicity of the microphones first mentioned. The instructions that came with the microphone did not address these vintage pieces of equipment so I thought it might help if I demonstrated the basic connections. BTW - a good gentlemen commented that my schematic I drew on the board is incorrect and he is right. The capacitor comes off the + side of the microphone on the other side of the resistor. Please see this correction schematic: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electret_microphone I also wanted to show how the voltage output and frequency response of most of these 50+ year old ceramic or crystal microphones vary dramatically and most are pretty worthless although a couple out of nine work pretty good. 20% good in my case. I hope this helps and I will try to plan a little better on future videos. Thanks for your comments.

[@eddys.3524]

schematic is wrong. You ought to connect the output capacitor on the otherside of the resistor.... now you're otputting the ac-component on the battery...

[@ElPasoTubeAmps]

You are absolutely right - I drew the schematic wrong and the capacitor should come off the + microphone connection. I connected it properly on the bench and drew it wrong on the board. Thanks for noticing and commenting. It is little mistakes like this that if they go unnoticed/uncorrected can cause a lot of confusion to someone trying to understand how to connect such a microphone up.

[@EJP286CRSKW]

There is something else strange here. You kept saying 'electric' but the document read 'electret'. An electret microphone doesn't need a polarizing voltage but the internal FET amplifier needs power.

[@ElPasoTubeAmps]

@@EJP286CRSKW Hi Esmond, I have to admit it is a bit confusing to me. But these discussions always help me understand better. Electret microphone Description: An electret microphone is a type of electrostatic capacitor-based microphone, which eliminates the need for a polarizing power supply by using a permanently charged material. An electret is a stable dielectric material with a permanently embedded static electric dipole moment. Wikipedia However, take a look at another Wikipedia description below especially their description and schematic on the right hand side. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electret_microphone In my particular case, it does require the external voltage and the description in the instructions call it a, FET amplifier electret element - apparently like the second Wiki description. Now that I have actually gotten thru this experiment, I found that the easiest way to determine if the old vintage D-104 crystal/ceramic elements are still good is to simply connect them to a small amplifier and speak into them and listen to the output. That part was probably not the best illustrated in the video but it is simple and the most revealing of the actual sound of the old elements. As for the new microphone element I am about to install, I have ordered another D-104 head and base and will mount a battery and possibly a volume control in the base of the microphone and use the extra connections in the UG base hand switch to apply and remove the 9 volt battery across the microphone. It sure looks promising with lots of output to drive my vintage Collins equipment. Some microphones I hear today are too "HiFi" (too much LF response) and QRM and QSB can make them much more difficult to understand than a higher pitched, "jet fighter" type communication microphone.

[@mountainmancb]

@@ElPasoTubeAmps The resistor and capacitor should both connect to the electret cartridge (+). The other end of the capacitor will be the audio (+). The other end of the resistor will go to the battery (+). If you want to still use the original amp board you don't need the .01uF capacitor. Their is already one on the amp board input (only .01uF capacitor on board.) You just need to add a 1K-10K ohm resistor in the proper place to supply the voltage needed by the electret cartridge. Also I recommend marking the microphone cartridge housing and base with a label that they have been modified. The new modified head will not work on a stock G Stand base or the modified base will not work with a stock Astatic crystal cartridge.

[@ElPasoTubeAmps]

@@mountainmancb I drew it wrong on the board. I found that, generally, the higher the load resistor, the higher the output of the element up to about 10K so in one microphone I connected the output across a pot in the base of the mic stand for full adjustment from zero to full output. These little 69 cent microphones sound good. The last modification I made was to connect three mic elements in parallel and mount them in the D-104 head and from what I can tell, there may be a slight improvement in that arrangement. True you can't swap the head around on an unmodified base. Thanks for your comments. 73