Atari ST SF354 Floppy Drive Repairs

[@TechTangents]

I am aware there are some audio sync issues with this video. There were a few compounded technical problems when shooting this video because of the way the CRT refresh rate changes, how I tried compensating for it in this video, and my editing software not handling it well. I tried to correct key areas as best I could but it would have required a majority re-edit to fix completely.

[@imacg3859]

hey man can you make a Windows XP build video for the Windows XP 20th anniversary coming at October 25

[@steeeefano]

Tech Tangents, 8-bit Guy and LGR videos dropped simultaneously... This is a good day!

[@amirpourghoureiyan1637]

Plays "Today is a Good Day"

[@MewtwoRaves]

Just looked at my feed and saw all 3. This is a good day :)

[@surrodox]

+This Does Not Compute

[@8BitNaptime]

Check out Cathode Ray Dude, he just made a W-VHS video ...

[@MikeKey69]

The A: and B: drives were also used on PC XTs with one drive. It makes copying of files from one floppy to another easier. When switching drives the system asks you to switch floppies in the only drive you have.

[@TheBatNaz]

was about to type this :-)

[@peterhurst]

Yes this was the same in the ST, if you did have two drives they were A/B if you had one dragging files to B from A: invokes the disk swapping routines in the ROM

[@hiroprotagonist1587]

Can confirm, I've still got my 520STFM. When I had a working external floppy drive it would automatically map it to drive B.

[@_..---]

Moving parts eventually fail, but on older hardware like this it's relatively easy to fix. I wonder how much of our current tech will be impossible to service in 10-20 years. Good job on making it work again!

[@Lysander-Spooner]

I love your channel. Fun to see younger people working on stuff I had brand new back in the day. Glad you are enjoying it. My first computer was an Atari 800 in 1982.

[@lBonaCl]

I just recently got myself two C64s (breadbin & C64C), both had the same style of power switch failure. The oil within the switch dries out to a gel-like state, which causes the little leaves within the switch to not make contact. I disassembled the switches, drenched them in IPA and scrubbed them clean and then I used sewing machine oil to lubricate the parts. They are quite easy to open and clean if you manage to desolder them from the board. Though with large pads, it can take a while to wick/suck the solder off the switch pins.

[@kronos2611]

The idea behind A and B showing is to allow for copying of files between 2 different disks even when you only have a single drive so is working as expected.

[@MatthewMcClellan]

My mom shipped me our 1040ST system, which arrived today, so thanks for this.

[@tonyrad8714]

Always a pleasure to listen and watch you work. Keep it coming. Hope to see you at LTX AGAIN!!!!!

[@b.o.353]

That’s a clean looking PCB inside the drive.

[@FirstWizardZorander]

Agreed. Probably not seen much use, or was in use in a very clean environment. I'm leaning towards the latter since this ST is not an F model

[@TPau65]

And it uses standard shugart and power connectors which directly could be hooked up to a Gotek. This is impossible with my SF314 double-sided drive, which uses propreatary connectors which couldn't be connected to anything but this specific drive! Atari released a whole bunch of different PCBs and drives back then. 🙄

[@YouStEeLz]

The Power switch issue is actually quite common on the Atari drives! And btw thanks for the excellent sync on the CRT haha, the little things!

[@ET_AYY_LMAO]

The GEM OS was made by Intergalactic Research aka. Gary Kildall.

[@brecken19972]

You mean Digital Research, not Intergalactic. Right?

[@ET_AYY_LMAO]

@@brecken19972 Sure. It was Intergalactic Digital Research before it was just Digital Research though. But yeah this was probably in that era.

[@leeshepherd6512]

And to be fair it’s absolutely awful 😂

[@ET_AYY_LMAO]

@@leeshepherd6512 I loved it :) Wasn't all too bad. It had some nice things going for it, like the ability to run utility apps "in the background", like calculator or a contact book etc... Though as a kid that was mostly used for the googly eyes program. Never used it on color monitors though, only strictly high density monochrome, which made the whole thing look much better.

[@przemekkobel4874]

@@leeshepherd6512 Depends what's on your mind. Low- and med- res doesn't look too good (at least not in stock incarnation), yet if your programs adhered to GEM's API, they would run on TT or Falcon, or a machine with one of video cards people managed to connect via VME bus. It also had a thing similar to modern HAL (VDI), so it could use drivers to support not only new video cards, but also some non-standard imaging hardware. There was even a VDI replacement you could install for much faster performance and better looks (NVDI). You could have all this stuff supported (and more, like multitasking variants of TOS) without touching your program's code.

[@milgeekmedia]

I would never dare attempt anything like this, but I find it fascinating to watch! Always amuses my how the old ST case and keys discoloured over time. Looked like a previous owner was a smoker! LOL That would trigger my OCD, I'd need to replace all those keys to match! :) Great video, thanks.

[@Dreadfultime]

What a fun video. You need a Teenage mutant ninja turtles poster and pizza on the table at all times to complete the magic.

[@blackterminal]

Single sided may be less useful but its a rare piece. You may not know but during the core years of the Atari ST most boxed game disks remained single sided to allow max compatibility. I know as I was there and still have those original disks. Made so well they still load.

[@JendaLinda]

Is this some early 3.5" drive? I've never seen a floppy drive like this.

[@TPau65]

Yes, it was the first (single sided) drive, which came out initially with the early ST models like this 520. I think the SF314 (double sided, no belt) came out a few months later, maybe early 1986.

[@_Thrackerzod]

I really don't like those power switches, they seem to be very failure prone. I had to replace the one in my 65XE a few years ago.

[@martinmeyer2008]

These Atari's are a nightmare. Wish I lived close by so I could perhaps pay you to look at mine, it starts to load software and then just goes to the TOS, shows the contents of the floppy, but it doesn't seem to be the entire contents. As I'm writing this I'm thinking its probably double sided and one read head is dirty....its a newer Atari 1040 STFM. Anyways, great content, always happy to see the notification that you've released a video! Hope the rest of your Atari doesn't give you grey hairs :-)

[@brianv2871]

Does sound like opening it up and cleaning it would be the first step. However, honestly it's hardly worth even getting them fixed since it's only a matter of time that the floppies themselves would die. Long term, might just be worth swapping the drive out for a Gotek.

[@stefanbasslorraine8061]

Very great video. Thanks. Is that the same drive than in the first 520STF machines ? Thanks

[@enilenis]

Belt goes over the flywheel and over the PCB just like that, with no guide rollers? What a strange design.

[@nrdesign1991]

3:13 that's an interesting technique, might use this later on.

[@vladabuba]

Wow man, thanks! This was really helpful as I got myself also a SF354 for my 520STM. Mine is also faulty (Atari does detect him but I've got just a drive motor nonstop working) so I need to do some thorough checkup. Your and mine SF354 have the same motherboard and drive mechanism. Noticing the Gotek, did you make it to work with SF354 electronics instead of original drive (maybe with FlashFloppy, reading .ST files)?

[@kaydot6889]

Fun Fact: if god didn't want us to eat the melted belts, he wouldn't have made them just so gosh darn tasty

[@arthurtaggart]

I had the same problem with the switch on my C64. Wish I'd have seen this before replacing the switch entirely 😉

[@pandacongolais]

Nice ! Even if I'm 3 years late ... Do you know that there's a hack to use one 720 KB floppy as 2 x 360 KB ones ? One one and only one floppy disk ... You need a floppy drive connector and a switch (may some resistors ? Don't remember, but I can open mine and check) One one position, the switch allows the use of a floppy as a 2 sided 720 KB, or a 1 sided 360 KB. On the other position, the switch allows the use of the other side as a 1 sided 360 KB. You can then store two small games,

[@jeffm2787]

Floppy drives don't normally use belts that have much stretch at all. Normal rubber belts end up with too much oscillation in speed. This of course leads to data issues.

[@NerdThingsAndMore]

Thanks for the video

[@8BitNaptime]

Gotta say I never heard of or saw a 3.5" drive with a belt.

[@nickwallette6201]

I’ve run into a few now. E.g.: Early ones, like the IBM PC Tandon 5.25” drives. The internal 3.5” on the Toshiba T4xx0 laptops.

[@8BitNaptime]

@@nickwallette6201 Yeah must be those single-sided units. My first 3.5" floppy drive was the Commodore 1581.

[@erikkarsies4851]

I've bought a second hand ST in 1989 which had this drive. I remember repairing it several times until I bought a double sided unofficial drive for it. Finally I could read the other side of ST Format disks

[@DAVIDGREGORYKERR]

VCR drive belts or what about a 1.44MB Floppy Drive with Direct Drive.

[@DAVIDGREGORYKERR]

If you have a 3D Prusa printer what about printing out a few belts using Ninjaflex.

[@Hogdriva]

I'm a simple guy, I see an Aku video I click

[@dvuemedia]

I think 2 drives showing up on desktop is normal for Atari ST. Now, if you could figure it out how to convert the single sided floppy motherboard to use double sided drive then that would be helpful.

[@Stoney3K]

That's probably because the Shugart interface always exposes 2 drives on 1 cable, and the system has no way of being aware that only 1 drive is connected.

[@Shifter-1040ST]

@@Stoney3K No. TOS is well aware that there is only one drive. If you drop a file onto drive B icon it will prompt you to put the other disk into drive A.

[@Stoney3K]

@@Shifter-1040ST Itis only aware of such a fact if the OS actually tries to access it (which it can't) and then prompt you for the other drive. That's also why you could select the "Floppy Seek at Startup" option on older BIOSes, and you could set drive B to be anything even though it is not physically there. The Shugart interface is pretty dumb, the only way of selecting the "B" drive is by putting signals on the appropriate pins and hoping that something happens. There is no difference in signals between not having a disk in the drive and the drive not being there at all.

[@Shifter-1040ST]

@@Stoney3K I see. The OS has to actively seek the drive to see if it's there. But my point was, that the B icon is always there for good reason: to allow file operations between disks even with a single drive.

[@tarstarkusz]

Where did you get that bottle of alcohol?

[@atomsbudgetreviews8713]

I want to put a GOTEK inside my SF314 external floppy enclosure.. has anyone tried? I attempted yesterday but the IDE floppy cable is too short. I tried removing this cable, seems to be directly soldered to the PCB inside the enclosure. Anyone confirm?

[@HelloKittyFanMan]

ALL of the screws are right "underneath of" (actually, IN the bottom of) the floppy drive.

[@VenomStryker]

What's funny is you probably could have just used a rubber band and it would have worked. lol :-)

[@chrislong6601]

That's a half height floppy drive btw, not a full height floppy drive.

[@blackterminal]

Amstrad used 3in yes not 3.5 inch drives and they all used belts. I have 3 such computers that would need new belts.

[@lo1bo2]

I'm going to avoid inserting an obvious joke about my 3.5" floppy not working correctly.

[@batlin]

Insertion failed...

[@IntoTheVerticalBlank]

Always the belts

[@JarrodCoombes]

@0:46 - I think you need a smaller screwdriver. :D Seriously though, why are you using such an odd sized screw driver?

[@TechTangents]

The square holes in the plastic were just too small for me to get my normal screw drivers through. So I had to rummage for one that would fit and that was the first one I grabbed. Inset screws are always so annoying.

[@blaringice]

Petition to change the Tech Tangents II channel name to Textra Tangents

[@vhm14u2c]

Sf354? It’s a single sided drive.(Only uses one side of 720k floppy ) Sf314 is double sided. I have a sf354not being used since about 87-88. Would just go with the go-tech.

[@madigorfkgoogle9349]

Gotek installed in SF354 case is able to read just single sided floppy images so that would not be a solution to your problem.

[@burtobm]

Oooo Zool 2

[@VenomStryker]

I would have just desoldered the switch and replaced it.

[@beatlesrol456]

you and @vwestlife both just posted vids about belts lol

[@cromulence]

The inverse power connector is so dumb. Good god.

[@TechTangents]

It's actually brilliant! A counter example to this is the TRS-80 Model 1 where the power, tape, and monitor connections are identical 5 pin DIN connectors on the back right next to eachother. If you connect a live power supply to the wrong connector on that computer you can damage the machine. So having incompatible connectors for power and data like this is a really simple safety measure.

[@cromulence]

@@TechTangents That's a fair point - but it still feels wrong to me!

[@amirpourghoureiyan1637]

Makes sense that they'd go with non-standard cables. The whole drive is over engineered.