Atheist to Christian: God Does Not Own Me

[@CosmicSkeptic]

For the full debate: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mne8o5mBfbiJaM0

[@fredbmurphy]

The Christian God cannot compensate for natural evil (natural suffering is a much more accurate term) and it's inequity because morality and moral choice play no role in it.

[@KING-hb5wh]

Not if you were homeless in the first place

[@hans.stein.]

The difference is: By God we live. And we may leave any time. (Just stop eating and drinking. It is not a painful death if you do not cling to life.) I agreewith you, though: The churches are a nuisance to man and God, just as Israel was most of the time. Actually, your enmity to the available ideas of God is more refreshing than most (999999ppm) babbling of denominations. (The de- part is the most truthful about them)

[@deductivereasoning4257]

Your parents chose to bring you into the house of God. They chose to play God by bringing you into the world. They knew the world was a deeply imperfect place. God just allows this because God feels sorry for you because you were born homeless. Don't atheists feel sorry for homeless children? I wonder sometimes. And the house reference was the best analogy people before the 'magnetism age' could reason at the time. And since we are still in the 'magnetism age' and likely will not advance past, a computer server is a better analogy and when it comes to infected computers, if they are badly infected, all you can do is your best to keep all the programs you like up and running. However, the mechanism will breakdown and it's time to move on to another system and new and unaffected programs. And then, and only because you want to, you extract what information you can from the crashed hard-drive into a new system. After that, it's time to melt down the computer for its fine metals. And as of now, DNA can store electromagnetic information better than any hard-drive man has made. This means DNA uses binary code at the root level. This means you were downloaded into the world. This means you were saved before you were downloaded. This means you can be uploaded and saved to another server - or sent straight to the trash bin...

[@pablogh1204]

Would you find that scenario gross, but would your moral judgments be relevant?🤔 What would be their position in "the hierarchy"? Well, it seems to me that you base the strength of your argument on that, on the strength of feelings and emotions. morality: feel good about what is "correct" (good) and bad about what is "bad". And you will be virtuous, you will be above others, power over them.

[@hasan7275]

bro made his own counter argument at the end

[@Mar-dk3mp]

Man I will pray for you to have (believe) God again in your life. Also because: Believe in God is *Free * It those not required any political changes (believer can be con right, centre, wing, liberal, conservative and so on). * You will not change that Much, only Believe in Him. * Once you are alone is only Him you have. * So if you feel sick. * Or Someone of your family, unfortunately does. * once you get older you will have him * Or before to die. * You will not think the people who lived and the one you knew left this world are Nothing (and in some cases is like they never existed, because none remembers them or have a picture of them, but have reached God. * You will see people not just human but sons with a Father (which believe me will help, because you give them another positive attribute, which will help you to define them with more meaning). * You will have another purpose in this life: which is not. Be good and help people, but pray for them (and praying is a religious thing) and work not only for this life but also for after life,because working for the next life give you more hope and let you think about your future future... Just as you think for tomorrow. And basically we stop this thing that we westerns do to be the most arrogants people in te world, and again losing the faith on God, only because we live in a ealthy society we want live materiliscally, especially for our youth (they will need God anyway once older, believe it or not). I hope you understand that (without any further questions) May God bless you and the peace for Jesus upon you ☺️

[@graftrebeck6837]

@@Mar-dk3mp why would one believe again if one did not believe in the first place? Thank you for the copypasta tho.

[@gadfly7677]

@@Mar-dk3mp pray for yourself

[@akun10years10]

@@Mar-dk3mp pray for me, I lost so much loan shark's money on crypto.

[@hareecionelson5875]

everyone when they heard the theist destroy his argument: "Bruh"

[@JohnCena8351]

"It's funny isn't it" Ouch😅

[@davidevans3223]

Nope the free world only exists thanks to the bible that's a fact cause and effect there's no other way fact

[@davidevans3223]

The free world only exists thanks to the bible that's a fact slavery was part of human history wasn't morally wrong back then there's more slaves now than any time in history outside the Christian world real slaves not modern day slaves also slave means Slavic white people. If it wasn't for the bible the Romans would still be feeding people to lions cannibalism in Africa and the America's they were eating each other and cultures don't just stop wife burning in India when a husband died his usually younger wife was burned alive stopped by Christians as well as the international slave trader's all over the world stopped by Christians the British empire. . The evil in the world China committing genocide north Korea a slave nation both atheist USSR before they went back to Christianity mass genocide look at the new religons veganisum new Hinduism or infinite gender theory where gender is a feeling outside of biology like a spirit and biology is bigoted or blasphemy. Or socialism killed more than any war also slavery and stealing not free. The atheists in the west want to tell you what you can do eat and even think denying science as bigoted. I'm a Christian because I believe God is more intelligent than any people who can't progress without guidance and will always lead to suffering and slavery. The bible gave us free will it favoured the good but had to allow evil or evil people would have replaced it evil like we see all around us TODAY

[@richardleeskinneriii9640]

Man got fuckin burned hard and didn't even notice. It burned down to the nerves in seconds lmao

[@davidevans3223]

@@richardleeskinneriii9640 lol sure doesnt make him wrong even if you don't like it it's not your choice God has no reason to answer to you no amount of suffering here compares to eternity in paradise it's like saying would you suffer for 1 hour for 100 years of paradise in fact it's not even close but most would be happy with that no other animals are born blank no animal's have free will NONE can enjoy a sun set or climb a mountain because it's there enjoy the arts etc none can be so depressed they commit suicide all slaves to their DNA just a fact people have a choice be good or bad then you have eternity in what you choose that's freedom not slavery

[@crypticraps]

@@davidevans3223 You don't feel a deep internal sadness for believing this?

[@JamesRichardWiley]

It's difficult for an atheist to argue with someone who cannot accept the fact that the atheist really does not believe in his god.

[@Nov_Net]

What till I tell you about a hypothetical argument

[@flashbash2]

Atheism to the theist is a direct rejection of what people know in their hearts to be true.

[@trithos7308]

​@@flashbash2I love when people say meaningless dribble

[@Oozy9Millimeetah]

Atheism is a emotional choice... every single time...

[@trithos7308]

@@Oozy9Millimeetah in the way that every choice has an emotional part? Because I just follow what the evidence suggests, and the evidence suggests that there is no evidence for any specific religion.

[@aliceslab]

he just admitted his religion is slavery

[@avivastudios2311]

I agree that we are owned by God. I don't see a problem with that.

[@aliceslab]

@@avivastudios2311 but why own at all, when we express that we love our dog we often say that we dont see ourselves as owners, that they are part of the family, but for god, its not family, its ownership, tell me, why is the all mighty and the all good, not as wholesome as a person with a dog? another thing is ownership is bad if the person you are owned by is bad,which again why does a human have more ethical conviction than a god.

[@avivastudios2311]

@@aliceslab Using the word "owned" makes God unethical? That doesn't compute to me.

[@aliceslab]

@@avivastudios2311 how is it that i cannot stand to watch anything in pain, and would bend over backwards to help a creature or fellow human, when god will sit there and watch despite having all the power to stop it. its unethical

[@kujojotarostandoceanman2641]

​@@avivastudios2311bro you have kink issue and status problem 💀

[@charlestownsend9280]

The house analogy is like saying that it's ok to abuse your child so long as later on in life you give them a huge amount of money and gifts. Also I love the last line.

[@lavie7358]

Funny that in my country people preety much justify beating up children and controlling their life with this exact logic. Sad

[@crazydragy4233]

Many people do say that 💀

[@ericmccall3415]

@@crazydragy4233 and they’re wrong.

[@charlestownsend9280]

@@HasanUnknown and?

[@bayrembenmansour5414]

​@@HasanUnknown I'm an ex-Muslim and Islam is worse than Christianity in the 21st century, allows sex-slavery, wife beating, killing of apostates, the prophet is an actual p*dophile and has no evidence for any of its claims, no scientific miracles, all of them are vague verses getting reinterpreted, look at them by yourself. It's an old mentality cult where women are oppressed, just look at Iran. Keep making a fool of yourself by promoting this horrible religion.

[@lulolie]

"But God created you!" And parents still don't have the right to abuse their children

[@cagnazzo82]

"But you are a part of God" not just a creation. And when we make each other suffer we're making ourselves suffer. Most of the world's suffering is from humans having free will to make each other suffer.

[@lulolie]

@Legendary Saiyajin it's still suffering that god would be allowing to happen. If you let one of your children torture and maim the others, what kind of parent are you? Not to mention this doesn't even cover diseases or parasites or genetic disorders that also cause suffering. This is a being that allegedly caused everything to happen specifically knowing it would happen. That means he specifically and intentionally causes bad things to happen and bad people to exist.

[@asbest2092]

​@@cagnazzo82 imagine going outside and experience a rabid dog's attack. This is caused by the people's free will too I guess... You say free will and other people make people suffer. When a dog attacks you it's free will's fault too I guess (sarcasm). Or when you become ill, or when an accident happens, or when you can not find food and suffer from hunger, or when you suffer if your father dies because of his age... Yeah, free will is to blame in suffers (sarcasm)

[@diegorodriguez8006]

How pray tell does God abuse anyone? By saving us and asking us to repent and accept lord Jesus as lord and savior and let him into your heart? If you reject that and want to live in sun do it but you will spend eternity separated from God. Which is hell.

[@lulolie]

@Diego Rodriguez nobody wants to suffer forever, it's not that people "choose" hell, it's that god set it up that not worshipping him=hell. The ultimatum of "worship me or suffer forever" is abusive from the get-go, but I was talking about the suffering on earth that, if he exists and has the control over earth that he is claimed to, he is directly responsible for.

[@reytal496]

A visitor without choice of being there can be replaced with prisoner

[@damonmeier3652]

Do you not have the choice to kill your self? If you were to of never existed there would be no choice to make be greatful for life you beat millions of other sperm to get here

[@Back_to_God317]

But if you think about it, "a visitor without choice of being there" is a contradiction. Because if you are a visitor, that means that you are invited, and you willingly being there. Otherwise why would you be there in the first place?

[@RedRabbitEntertainment]

​@@Back_to_God317Right, so Prisoner is more accurate, since it isn't a choice. If you try to take yourself out of the game you get punished.

[@Back_to_God317]

@@RedRabbitEntertainment no, make up you're mind, is it a visitor or a prisoner? If he consider himself a prisoner, then that's his problem. But when he consider himself a visitor that means he willingly be there, so he has to follow the "rules". So God give you free will, and moreover when you broke the rules, God then provide a way out so that you can stay and be with Him. So God did not force you, it is our sin that condemned us and God try to save us from it.

[@RedRabbitEntertainment]

@@Back_to_God317 I'm saying that objectively you'd be a prisoner. You don't have a choice, if you try to leave you're punished for eternity.

[@peaceandfood7952]

These debates don't go anywhere because you can show intrinsically that theist reasoning is wrong but as soon as you put god in the equation then everything is allowed

[@Garkatrah]

Yes man.. And when we take an agnostic position or a "we don't know", then they say: - just assume an omniscient omnipotent God. Occam's razor you see 😂 simple explanation solves all problems. Everything can't come from nothing but an imaginary onmiscient omnipotent entity can eternally exist. Give me a break

[@peaceandfood7952]

@@Garkatrah they drive me insane...the guy said it himself "it would be called slavery" 🤦🤦

[@DerikMorgan-jn5ss]

How so ?

[@epifloyd7357]

"it's funny that, isn't it"

[@decibel333]

Mic drop

[@Mar-dk3mp]

What I understood is that westerns tend to deny God, not only because they live in an Ealthy Society, it is also because they (we, as Western myself) are objectively the cause of the most evil things happen in this world (weapons, pollution, invations, wars and so on) You are so sad. May God bless you.

[@Mar-dk3mp]

@@decibel333 What I understood is that westerns tend to deny God, not only because they live in an Ealthy Society, it is also because they (we, as Western myself) are objectively the cause of the most evil things happen in this world (weapons, pollution, invations, wars and so on) You are so sad. May God bless you.

[@epifloyd7357]

@@Mar-dk3mp you ok there bud?

[@Mar-dk3mp]

@@epifloyd7357 pretty much, bud! Stick on the subjects and prove wrong n bud. May God bless you

[@nuclearbirds]

You know you’ve lost a debate when your opponent says “That’s funny, isn’t it?”

[@quattroquinti8453]

So briiiiiiiiitish, btw.

[@The.Honoured.2]

No

[@janbuyck1]

and where or when is that ever convened?

[@markcharron]

As a Christian, it always astounds me how afraid of suffering atheists are. Christians accept suffering as a natural part of life that not even Jesus himself got out of having to endure. We praise God when good things happen and praise God when bad things happen. We are not attached to consolation, nor do we fear desolation. We are not called merely to chase temporary highs or exempt ourselves or run from discomforts. Like the Buddhists, we practice detachment, and in detachment, we find not only constancy and joy, but also a God who has been there with us, and calls us towards an eternity of happiness with him. Atheists meanwhile, all they have is chasing highs and running from pain, like animals.

[@The.Honoured.2]

@@markcharron 💀 bro speaks facts outta his ass

[@loust1264]

that ending was so smug i love this man

[@AlfyDC]

lol i’m so happy being an atheist. It’s so weird looking in at people believing in this stuff and reading all the comments, like how are these other humans living like this?? it reshapes their whole reality it’s so crazy to me, I do hope more of them wake up.

[@MrNemitri]

My whole family is like that, feeling kind of lonely in that regard, I sometimes wonder how I got out of that mindset and am grateful how lucky I am that I am able to see it all from a different perspective, but I must admit, it does feel lonely sometimes being surrounded by believers in all corners of my life, I don't want an echo chamber like christians do, but it's nice (and rare) to see a non believer!

[@AlfyDC]

@@MrNemitri hope you can get out of that environment and find your people

[@dreagen3131]

It's almost as if the Christian understands his flawed logic but just doesn't want to admit it because it affects his faith

[@CaptainFantastic222]

It bothers me when theists try to justify their position with logic and reason. I respect them more if they just admitted their position is faith based

[@sorguvasfen2426]

👀

[@pranavlimaye]

Cognitive dissonance at its finest

[@Pancakegr8]

@@pranavlimayeCognitive dissonance is the right description. I just had a similar conversation with a Muslim who believes I’m headed towards hell and they admitted to feeling sympathy for me. Funny how they can be sad about a decision made by a god they think is being just and fair.

[@morosov4595]

No, this tracks.

[@AudunWangen]

Huh. He just admitted that his god is a slaver.

[@Mar-dk3mp]

What I understood is that westerns tend to deny God, not only because they live in an Ealthy Society, it is also because they (we, as Western myself) are objectively the cause of the most evil things happen in this world (weapons, pollution, invations, wars and so on) You are so sad. May God bless you.

[@Mar-dk3mp]

A father. That is only your western godless lie.

[@sibigamokoro7276]

If you see it that way...guess cat, dog, cattle etc owners are slavers too...how cruel

[@AudunWangen]

@@sibigamokoro7276 It wasn't me who said it, it was the Christian in the video, but yes, you could say that. "Slaver" usually refers to someone owning a person or persons as property, but I'm not going to argue semantics. If you check out Alex's other material, you may find out exactly how cruel the meat industry is. Dogs, and especially cats, usually stay on their own volition, but I guess that's mostly because of artificial selection by humans, so I guess you could stretch the definition to include that if you want to.

[@sibigamokoro7276]

@@AudunWangen thats the point, we can stretch everything to fit the narrative.

[@asbest2092]

"when you suffer it from other human, we call it slavery" but the bible says so as well. The bible literally calls people "the slaves of the god" literally hundreds of times. When you are married at the church a priest literally says "do you agree to take this god's slave 'the name of the bribe' to your wife?" You act so surprised realizing "but this is slavery 😮" when the bible literally calls you slaves hundreds of times...

[@zacharyo3824]

For someone who calls being a christian wife slavery you must not know that these woman choose their husbands and if the husband is abusive or cheats she can leave.

[@asbest2092]

@@zacharyo3824 re read my comment. Don't write anything when you don't even understand what you are answering for. I wrote it clear, your lack of concentration is your fault, apologize for it. When you are getting merried a priest tell your wife, as well as you are the GOD'S slaves. He *does not* say "this woman will become YOUR slave" he just says it as a fact that she is already a slave, a slave to the god. And like this is something normal and good. When you are getting merried a priest literally says "do you agree to take this god's slave 'the name of the bribe' to your wife?" and when it's her turn to speak the priest asks her "and you, do you agree to take this god's slave 'the name of the groom' to your husband?" you are both slaves to the god and the priest just mentions it as if it was a fact

[@RustyCog]

I don’t know what cult you think is Christianity but you certainly are not describing the Bible in its pure form nor any real church

[@asbest2092]

@@RustyCog read the bible. Why did the bible's content made you mad?

[@RustyCog]

@@asbest2092 you are severely misinterpreting the word

[@sam_the_penguin_man]

When humans do it, it's slavery and immoral. But God does it, so it automatically means it's good. Absolutely unquestionable logic right there

[@donkeykong2.0]

God doesn't enslave us

[@MovieIdiot]

The analogy is not apt because Alex forces an existing human, whereas God creates from nothing, imbuing life with the sheer miracle of consciousness-a wonder that is underappreciated. From the viewpoint of Christians and God, existence extends into an eternal life with God. While not undermining earthly suffering, which varies among individuals, it pales in duration compared to eternity in heaven. Moreover, through Jesus, God experienced profound suffering, from betrayal by a close friend to enduring extreme torture, thus sharing in our human afflictions.

[@danhtran6401]

God didn't force anyone to do anything. God didn't force Lucifer to become prideful. Didn't force Adam to eat the apple. Didn't force anyone to suffer. You're capable of doing that well on your own. If God forces you to do something, you will do it anyway, with a smile on your face, because you're smart, and you know what's good for you...

[@RedRabbitEntertainment]

​@@danhtran6401God forced people into existence and will outright punish those who try to quit the game.

[@danhtran6401]

@@RedRabbitEntertainment suicidal tendencies?...

[@MorbiusBlueBalls]

for a split second, he breaks through his cognitive dissonance lmao

[@Mar-dk3mp]

What I understood is that westerns tend to deny God, not only because they live in an Ealthy Society, it is also because they (we, as Western myself) are objectively the cause of the most evil things happen in this world (weapons, pollution, invations, wars and so on) You are so sad. (That why you do not have an actually comunity and you jump here, when you see a big western godless and Souless person talking about God and Chrstians) But may May God bless you anyway.

[@Jivvi]

​@@DatHombre Only a couple of words. kzbin.info/www/bejne/mne8o5mBfbiJaM0m28s It doesn't change the meaning at all.

[@gomer921]

Or it’s a clip with missing context.

[@marioluigi9599]

No you're stupid. You don't understand it. The point is, with God you're a slave anyway. You're a slave to every heartbeat throughout your life. If God stops your heart, it's over. And it's up to him in the first place

[@Mar-dk3mp]

@@marioluigi9599 Exactly God can do whatever he wants... Poor those western godless people who did not get it

[@Void7.4.14]

It's more like we're hostages, not even guests. Someone kidnaps you then tells you how to behave or they'll set ya on fire forever.

[@capitalb5889]

Not just how to behave, but what you must believe.

You are dealing with the creator of all existence. Who else but him would tell you what to do?

[@capitalb5889]

@ why does he need to tell people what to do?

@@capitalb5889 because he is the boss. Imagine a bunch of robots asking, why this programmer need to tell us what to do? It doesnt matter, you were created for a purpose. You don't make the rules

[@capitalb5889]

@ what we're talking about is so ludicrous it's funny. Man in sky makes people in order for them to worship him and if they don't they get punished for eternity. Alternatively, man in sky doesn't exist and there are no supernatural forces at play.

[@JoshBabin]

"Created sick and commanded, on threat of eternal punishment, to be well "

[@TheMysticRivers]

Suddenly makes sense why the bible condones slavery...

[@Doctor_Fate5]

Galatians 5:1 “It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.”

[@BaryernMunich]

@@Doctor_Fate5 bro doesn't know we are gonna be forced into submission

[@ochmus]

Ephesians 6:5-9 New International Version 5 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. 6 Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. 7 Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not people, 8 because you know that the Lord will reward each one for whatever good they do, whether they are slave or free.

[@Doctor_Fate5]

@@ochmus Ephesians 6:5 was written by Paul. Nowhere does he endorse slavery. Indeed, in verse 9, Paul specifically tells the masters that they are “no better” than their servants/slaves.

[@ochmus]

I hope you follow christ more than paul@@Doctor_Fate5

[@jackwaycombe]

"But officer! She MADE me hurt her! I'll make it up to her, and promise never to do it again - as long she does as she's told!" An excuse sadly familiar to every social worker and domestic abuse officer on the planet.

[@neeeskeee]

Am i dumb, or is this vaguely written purposely like this to not attack men or women, but mean both. Or is there a higher meaning i dont get?

[@jemmagordon4439]

​@@neeeskeee an abuser can be any gender, sometimes using "he" or "she" pronouns to describe a person in a situation is a default for people. And women are veiwed as victims more often than men which is awful because men are just as likely to be victims if not more so because they're told to "toughen up"

[@givlupi2686]

​@@neeeskeee It's quoting what real domestic abusers say.

[@isdrakon9802]

​@@neeeskeeeit's aluding to gods abusive relationship with us while using the words of actual abusers

[@Mtyugi]

When I made the realization that the Abrahamic god was a "toxic boyfriend" 😳 "I am a jealous god" and when you are told he loves you soooo much for who you are but if you don't love him back you'll be punished.....that's NOT love 😕 It's truly fascinating when I look back at the things I would say to defend my beliefs how...not blind but there definitely was a fog 😅

[@heckingbamboozled8097]

The "it's funny that, isn't it" was definitely a bit of a hitchen's moment. Good stuff!

[@josephine4s]

I think he said once that he was heavily influenced by Hitchens, even though he says Hitchens had a few consistent flaws in how he went about his discourse on religion.

[@auntieyoni4129]

Sounds like parents😂pull you into their home without any choice of your own and have to take care of you and feel you're the burden

[@grayskindablue]

That’s because it is, just on a lesser scale. Parents know suffering is an inherent part of life, but force their children into it in the name of “love.” Then demand gratitude basic necessities are met. It’s disturbingly similar, but that’s not a surprise. I highly recommend “Better Never To Have Been” by David Benatar, if you’re not familiar. It’s a solid jumping off point and generally a good read, in my opinion.

[@guardian9394]

​@@grayskindablue the problem I've always had with antinatalism is that it presupposes that life is suffering and that, if given the choice, it is better not to be born. The thing is that you can't decide if you want to be alive UNTIL you are alive. You can't "consent" to being born, but that's only trivially true because "you" literally don't exist and thus can't choose anything. If you value freedom of choice in the matter, as antinatalists often claim to, then being born is at least a neutral if not good thing because it allows you that choice. Antinatalists argue that life is a net negative experience, so it's better to have never been born, but this seems like extreme arrogance to me because it assumes that this position is true of everyone regardless of their opinion on the matter. If someone disagrees they must have "Stockholm syndrome" for life so to speak. Doesn't that sound familiar? It's exactly the same tactic used by theists to dismiss atheists. "Oh, you're an atheist? But everyone KNOWS God exists, so you must just be angry with him." No, I just don't believe in God, like I said. "Oh, you enjoy life? But life is just suffering, so secretly you must hate life too, you just cope and pretend you don't/you've been brainwashed." No. I just enjoy life. Like I said. What about instead of presupposing a position and then assuming people who disagree with it are lying, antinatalists just accept that it's possible I know my own mind better than they do, and that I am a rational adult capable of forming my own opinions? Don't even get me started on so called "efilists," they're even worse about this. To bring this back to being born or not, it's impossible to make the judgement of whether the hypothetical child will value life over the suffering within life. The only truly honest way to answer that question is for the individual themselves to decide, and the only way that happens is if they are born. Will they end up hating life? It's impossible to know for certain, but if I endeavor to be a responsible parent who understands my own circumstances and has the capability of rearing a child, it's pretty likely I should be able to impart the skills I've learned in my endeavors to make the most of my own life, and that they will go on to be happy and healthy.

[@bradleykamm1823]

"It's funny that, isn't it?" Thank you for being so goddamn cheeky (pun intended). You're hilarious, meanwhile making perfect points.

[@walterbrooks2329]

If you let a Christian talk long enough they will almost always defeat themselves.

[@ithinkiknowme6450]

Same with Muslims 😂

[@RaymondTT]

Same with atheists

[@mattmay4112]

Bro that’s everybody

[@Iwillreply]

@@RaymondTT How do you "defeat" atheism?

[@Iwillreply]

@@RaymondTT I guess it depends on where you think these ideas came from, and why they matter to you.

[@ComfyDents]

Funny isn't it? 😂

[@Mar-dk3mp]

Tht God does not care if you believe in him or not to exist. But only western godless and Souless idiots do not understand it. I wonder why 😅😅😅

[@Mar-dk3mp]

That God does not care if you believe in him or not to exist. But only western godless and Souless idiots do not understand it. I wonder why 😅😅😅

[@Mar-dk3mp]

@Blosiverma Man I will pray for you to have (believe) God again in your life. Also because: Believe in God is *Free * It those not required any political changes (believer can be con right, centre, wing, liberal, conservative and so on). * You will not change that Much, only Believe in Him. * Once you are alone is only Him you have. * So if you feel sick. * Or Someone of your family, unfortunately does. * once you get older you will have him * Or before to die. * You will not think the people who lived and the one you knew left this world are Nothing (and in some cases is like they never existed, because none remembers them or have a picture of them, but have reached God. * You will see people not just human but sons with a Father (which believe me will help, because you give them another positive attribute, which will help you to define them with more meaning). * You will have another purpose in this life: which is not. Be good and help people, but pray for them (and praying is a religious thing) and work not only for this life but also for after life,because working for the next life give you more hope and let you think about your future future... Just as you think for tomorrow. And basically we stop this thing that we westerns do to be the most arrogants people in te world, and again losing the faith on God, only because we live in a ealthy society we want live materiliscally, especially for our youth (they will need God anyway once older, believe it or not). I hope you understand that (without any further questions) May God bless you and the peace for Jesus upon you ☺️

[@thaddeusgenhelm8979]

@@Mar-dk3mp You are aware that when dealing with skeptics, telling them that "Life is better if you believe in God" isn't actually convincing, right? The goal isn't to believe things just because they're nice to believe (as, if so, I would choose to believe in a god that's better than the Christian god, because that's not that hard to imagine) but to believe *true* things. Choosing to believe false things because they're nice is a form of delusion, which can work as a coping mechanism in difficult times, but not something a skeptically minded person is going to actively pursue.

[@ErrantMasa]

@@Mar-dk3mp Your god is a malignant, abusive, predatory narcissist. your faith is misplaced and wasted on such a character.

[@TheSixerFixer]

Why am I an atheist? Because I believe in freedom.

[@quincyjones5676]

I’m atheist because there’s no proof this shit actually is real. Amazing these ppl will all day everyday insist it is yet their argument is “you must make yourself believe it. No shit, I can do that with elves, fairies and democracy. 😂

[@elani9624]

God is a such a loving god that he that gave us free. We can choose to either follow him or follow the world. God loves all of us and gave us freedom and free will. We undergo suffering from man and ungodly spirits. God knows we will suffer in this world which is why he wants us to surrender to him so that he can bring us peace and his love. Giving your life to our father is showing him obedience in hope to grow a stronger relationship for him as jesus gave his life for us so that we can be able to have a relationship with God. God loves all of us💗💗💗

[@quincyjones5676]

@@elani9624 if he was so loving why did he eradicate all mankind except for a family that had to invest their way out of extinction? (I’m case ur not familiar with the Bible I’m Talking about Noah)

[@edivaldobarbosa3709]

​​@@quincyjones5676 god also said that noah was the only righteous one,but one of the first things he does after getting out of the ark is drink himself out,get butt naked and then curse his grandson because his son tried to help him without closing his eyes..........god has some weird friends

[@quincyjones5676]

@@edivaldobarbosa3709 God also sent a bear to kill a bunch of children because they made fun of a prophets bald head 🤣🤣🤣🤣 he’s kinda a huge dick

[@jvratar86]

This is the same guy that couldn't answer if rape was wrong. That should tell you everything about him.

[@RyuBateson218]

Imagine your moral compass being a book that states that woman that can't prove they are virgins on their wedding night should be stoned to death and a rape victim should marry the rapist.

[@zacharyo3824]

​@@RyuBateson218didnt jesus save a woman from being stoned" let the man who has not sin throw the first stone" or whatever.

[@RyuBateson218]

@@zacharyo3824 yes he did. But it was the God of Abraham who made the law in the first place. So basically he once stopped a mob from executing a woman based on a law he made himself in Deuteronomy 22. He could have just not made the law in the first place.

[@zacharyo3824]

@@RyuBateson218 I watched a video a second ago basically saying if your wife is not a virgin your likelyhood of divorce goes up. Not related to the bible but I thought it was interesting that virginity especially in woman is important. It was a redpill manosphere video from Better bachelor.

[@zacharyo3824]

@@RyuBateson218 also was this a book from the Catholic view of christianity, my dad says they got extra books other denominations dont have. I'm a protestant.

[@garethholmes]

Alex didn't just knock it out of the park at the end, he sent it into near earth orbit 😂

[@hareecionelson5875]

he sent the theist into a hyperbolic trajectory

[@noah8236]

I think it's now orbiting somewhere near Russel's teapot.

[@YeshuaSaves3]

How? He made a comment that showed he wasn’t even listening to the argument.

[@Youcanthandlemyhandle899]

​@@YeshuaSaves3 🤦‍♂️

[@YeshuaSaves3]

@@Youcanthandlemyhandle899 Lol you good? I can explain how if you’d like to know because it seems like you aren’t willing to observe the truth.

[@TheCabIe]

From my experience when you push believers enough, their argument ultimately reaches the "he's God so he can do whatever the fuck he wants/he knows better than us, deal with it" point. No matter how you spin it, ultimately it's the fear that this being who is supposed to be all-powerful and all-knowing has power over you, that is not allowing people to look at the evidence for their beliefs (like supposedly holy books) rationally. Once you ease yourself away from this psychological trap and examine the source for your beliefs honestly and without fear, there's no way you can come away from it thinking "yeah, this is clearly inspired by a perfect being like God rather than just being a representation of the beliefs human beings held during the era those books were written".

[@wriptag3]

This is at least honest.

[@blueredingreen]

It's practically impossible to change someone's mind during one conversation (at least when based on rationality), but one could hope that they go and think about what was said and change their mind eventually. If it's a public debate, that's much more to make the audience think than to change the mind of the other person.

[@Mar-dk3mp]

What I understood is that westerns tend to deny God, not only because they live in an Ealthy Society, it is also because they (we, as Western myself) are objectively the cause of the most evil things happen in this world (weapons, pollution, invations, wars and so on) You are so sad. (That why you do not have an actually comunity and you jump here, when you see a big western godless and Souless person talking about God and Chrstians) But may May God bless you anyway.

[@Mar-dk3mp]

@@wriptag3 What I understood is that westerns tend to deny God, not only because they live in an Ealthy Society, it is also because they (we, as Western myself) are objectively the cause of the most evil things happen in this world (weapons, pollution, invations, wars and so on) You are so sad. (That why you do not have an actually comunity and you jump here, when you see a big western godless and Souless person talking about God and Chrstians) But may May God bless you anyway.

[@Mar-dk3mp]

@@blueredingreen What I understood is that westerns tend to deny God, not only because they live in an Ealthy Society, it is also because they (we, as Western myself) are objectively the cause of the most evil things happen in this world (weapons, pollution, invations, wars and so on) You are so sad. (That why you do not have an actually comunity and you jump here, when you see a big western godless and Souless person talking about God and Chrstians) But may May God bless you anyway.

[@rajathmayurk.h.6125]

This is what made me leave islamic mythology after following it for 5 years.

[@marishasveganworld2240]

“It’s funny that, isn’t it” Alex, you are so good!

[@deelaw.]

"its funny that isn't it" oooohhhhhhhh that must have felt like nails through both of his hands

[@Salem-ys6kw]

Lol 😂👏

[@neuralgarden]

Wrinkly brain moment

[@william3347]

Yup - some great editing that was :)

[@themasekofamily]

Not the jesus reference💀

[@Slattastix]

💀💀💀💀☠️☠️☠️😂😂😂

[@michaeltunnicliffe4935]

I'd say it's less like dragging someone into your house against their will. It's more like having a child, abusing said child all it's life and never letting the child leave the house.

[@JoyDorsett_86]

Hate to break it to you but that’s how I saw what happened to me and my family did that and how I’m feeling the repercussions of it you can’t excuse that it was done against someone’s will and yes that can happen

[@aymen577]

Our creator said in Quran: "Did you think We had created you in vain (without any purpose), and that you would not be brought back to Us?’ (Quran 23:115) "Exalted is He (God) who holds all control in His hands; who has power over all things; ˹He is the One˺ Who created life and death in order to test which of you is best in deeds. And He is the Almighty, All-Forgiving. who created the seven heavens, one above the other. You will not see any flaw in what the Lord of Mercy creates. Look again! Can you see any flaw?" (Quran 67:1-3 ) "And [mention, O Prophet], when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority." They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?" God said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know."(Quran 2:30) "Can there be any doubt about God, the Creator of the heavens and earth? He calls you to Him in order to forgive you your sins and let you enjoy your life until the appointed hour.’ But they said, ‘You are only men like us. You want to turn us away from what our forefathers used to worship. Bring us clear proof then, [if you can].’ (Quran 14:10) "Do man think he will be left without purpose? Was he not a drop of sperm emitted (in lowly form)? Then he was a clinging clot, and [ God ] created [his form] and proportioned [him] producing from it both sexes, male and female. Is such ˹a Creator˺ unable to bring the dead back to life?" "We have indeed made whatever is on earth as an adornment for it, in order to test which of them is best in deeds." "We shall certainly test you with fear and hunger, and loss of property, lives, and crops. But [Prophet], give good news to those who are steadfast. those who say, when afflicted with a calamity, ‘We belong to God and to Him we shall return.’ (Quran 2:155-156) "Indeed, in the creation of the heavens and the earth and the alternation of the night and the day are signs for those of understanding. those who remember God while standing and sitting and on their sides, and reflect upon the creation of the heavens and the earth: “Our Lord, You did not create this in vain. Highly Exalted are You, so protect us from the punishment of the Fire." (Quran 3:190-191) "Indeed, We have sent revelation to you ˹O Prophet˺ as We sent revelation to Noah and the prophets after him. We also sent revelation to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and his descendants, ˹as well as˺ Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon. And to David We gave the Psalms." (Quran 4:163) "Those who have believed and whose hearts are assured by the remembrance of God . Verily in the remembrance of God do hearts find rest!" "O humanity! Indeed, God’s promise is true. So do not let the life of this world deceive you, nor let the Chief Deceiver(Satan) deceive you about God. Surely Satan is an enemy to you, so take him as an enemy. He only invites his followers to become inmates of the Blaze." (Quran 35:5-6) "And when My servants ask you, [O Muhammad], concerning Me - indeed I am near. I respond to the invocation of the supplicant when he calls upon Me. So let them respond to Me [by obedience] and believe in Me that they may be [rightly] guided." Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said : “When God loves one of his servant, He tests him to hear his supplication.”

[@RustyCog]

No it’s more like having a child, the child rebels causing it to suffer, you don’t force it to stop however you encourage them to act better

[@gageduke7652]

But can you prove such a God exists to begin with?

[@Lonzoflames]

Suffering produces wisdom and spiritual strength. Not a lot can do it. But it’s worth it.

[@user-fd4oe1xb8y]

Is this supposed to be a debate?? I thought it was two atheists agreeing with eachother

[@eristic1281]

The dude got O'Connored

[@Mar-dk3mp]

Man I will pray for you to have (believe) God again in your life. (But of course you will be focusing only in that) Also because: Believe in God is *Free * It those not required any political changes (believer can be con right, centre, wing, liberal, conservative and so on). * You will not change that Much, only Believe in Him. * Once you are alone is only Him you have. * So if you feel sick. * Or Someone of your family, unfortunately does. * once you get older you will have him * Or before to die. * You will not think the people who lived and the one you knew left this world are Nothing (and in some cases is like they never existed, because none remembers them or have a picture of them, but have reached God. * You will see people not just human but sons with a Father (which believe me will help, because you give them another positive attribute, which will help you to define them with more meaning). * You will have another purpose in this life: which is not. Be good and help people, but pray for them (and praying is a religious thing) and work not only for this life but also for after life,because working for the next life give you more hope and let you think about your future future... Just as you think for tomorrow. And basically we stop this thing that we westerns do to be the most arrogants people in te world, and again losing the faith on God, only because we live in a ealthy society we want live materiliscally, especially for our youth (they will need God anyway once older, believe it or not). I hope you understand that (without any further questions) May God bless you and the peace for Jesus upon you ☺️

[@tranngockha6562]

​@@Mar-dk3mp May the Spaghe'tti 🍝 have mercy on your soul and guild you toward Valhalla.

[@Mar-dk3mp]

@@tranngockha6562 The guys here do not really care about the monarchy in UK, they are only here because their are modern godless and souless idiot that have no Comunity so the leek the ass of those few godless and souless idiots who think God cares what they think to exist, right? You know you will pay for denying God, you godless idiot? no God, no soul, but yes leek godless ass. Disgusting! No God, No soul, No spirituality, No Dignity but yes kissing godless people ass. And they could pay infront God for that one day. modernity and it's idiot. No respect for you, neither Hope foe this generation. Let's hope for the next other because you godless idiots do not deserve it

[@Youcanthandlemyhandle899]

​@@Mar-dk3mp Look mate... if you were born in Afghanistan you would unequivocally believe in Allah... if you were born in India you would believe wholeheartedly in the "gods" Vishnu and Ganesh... and if you were born 1000 year's ago in Norway you would most certainly believe in (and probably even kill in the name of) the "gods" Thor and Odin You are a human that has bought into a certain religion through nothing more than your placement on this planet and a tendency to fall for indoctrination tactics... that is all! You're not "enlightened" you're not right and you most certainly do not posses a higher form of truth and knowledge that others or indeed myself don't...in all honesty you are simply a delusional narcissist who truly believes they are better than others though a deluded sence of belief systems. Sorry... not sorry

[@MrTheclevercat]

@@Mar-dk3mp Cringestian detected.

[@TheShapingSickness]

He owned himself. He didn't even realize it

[@patrickbyrne5070]

They’re too brainwashed… or just lacking certain mental abilities. It gives me quite a sick feeling tbh.

[@epiccoolawesomegoblinguyre6520]

@@patrickbyrne5070 oh no people disagree with me!!

[@patrickbyrne5070]

@@epiccoolawesomegoblinguyre6520 wut?

[@Baboonfromdatoon]

How so?

[@TheShapingSickness]

​@@Baboonfromdatoonbecause he's arguing that if humans do it, then it is slavery. One of the most atrocious things you can do to a living organism. But somehow he believes that if it's God doing it, then somehow it is morally right.

[@Salem-ys6kw]

This is a perfect loop. If you play it on a loop without looking at the progress bar you can't be sure where the conversation started cause the interviewer seems to pick up exactly where Cosmic Skeptic left off.

[@PhilBohn]

It’s not so much that God creates the suffering, but more so making us aware that suffering is a reality in life. Not only is He good in the midst of suffering, but He has our best interests in mind. Jeremiah 29:11 is a popular verse, “For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans to prosper you and not harm you.” A lot of people love this verse, but it came before the Israelites would spend the next 70 years in bondage.

[@fooziewoozie]

Awesome work, Connor! Such elegance, a truly piece to study as a public speaker.

[@Mar-dk3mp]

Man I will pray for you to have (believe) God again in your life. Also because: Believe in God is *Free * It those not required any political changes (believer can be con right, centre, wing, liberal, conservative and so on). * You will not change that Much, only Believe in Him. * Once you are alone is only Him you have. * So if you feel sick. * Or Someone of your family, unfortunately does. * once you get older you will have him * Or before to die. * You will not think the people who lived and the one you knew left this world are Nothing (and in some cases is like they never existed, because none remembers them or have a picture of them, but have reached God. * You will see people not just human but sons with a Father (which believe me will help, because you give them another positive attribute, which will help you to define them with more meaning). * You will have another purpose in this life: which is not. Be good and help people, but pray for them (and praying is a religious thing) and work not only for this life but also for after life,because working for the next life give you more hope and let you think about your future future... Just as you think for tomorrow. And basically we stop this thing that we westerns do to be the most arrogants people in te world, and again losing the faith on God, only because we live in a ealthy society we want live materiliscally, especially for our youth (they will need God anyway once older, believe it or not). I hope you understand that (without any further questions) May God bless you and the peace for Jesus upon you ☺️.

[@Sednas]

​@@Mar-dk3mp shut up

[@cheddarbeansoup]

​@@Mar-dk3mp do I get free meals when I start believing? Like? What's the actual thing that I get from it if I'm the happiest I've ever been without? Always argumenting around the biggest questions and society as a whole... Damn people should stop being egoisic and start thinking about individuals.

[@tonybates7870]

It's Alex, isn't it?

[@whysocurious7366]

@@cheddarbeansoup you can get free meals if you start a church with both a garden & a kitchen :p you’d have to give speeches about how it’s good to grow & cook food for others (like you), but other than that, totally free meals, not even any taxes/labor required :o

[@doomakarn]

Not a single theist commenter doing anything other than spamming and insults.

[@htpkey]

It's sad how low the bar is set. There might be decent theists out there, but it seems that only the worst ones are watching these video's. Once you see the farce of religion, it becomes very difficult to unsee it. It the same feeling you get when realizing something is a scam.

[@lilythecatgamezvids69]

Well when you are backed to a corner the only option is thrashing back To see their logic shot dead in the water is terrifying to them

[@boianko]

I mean that is the most common comment contributions you will get from them. That and them condescendingly strawmanning atheists' views.

[@Akira-jd2zr]

It's all they have because the arguments aren't on their side...

[@chrisdroney8141]

"Hey I don't have any evidence for my claims or logic behind my reasoning, but here have a copypasta all about how having faith is nice, you despicable, godless heathen. I pray for you 🙏🙏"

[@loneprimate]

Oooo! Ooooo! That is deftest own-goal mic drop I have seen in years!

[@jacobdittmer5512]

This is the only argument i have ever had to give to shut people up. Works every time

[@smickos]

Love a great Christian self-own

[@Mar-dk3mp]

love how Westrn godless and Souless people talk behind us.

[@smickos]

@@Mar-dk3mp love how mindless Christians continue to support a book that not only condones, but instructs how the can own slaves.

[@FrankD23]

You: I think God is bad therefore his not real🤪🤡

[@smickos]

@@FrankD23 I don't think God exists, but the fictional character of God in the Bible is a monster.

[@Mar-dk3mp]

@@FrankD23 Wrong God is all. why Godless and Souless makes always stupid jokes? Because clearly they have not sacred things as we do

[@InformationIsTheEdge]

It is that utter abdication of personal responsibility and the simpering surrender mentality that I despise about religion. "I'm nothing without god." Then you're really nothing.

[@lc7173]

That mindset is what really keeps people in religion. They are raised to believe; or find themselves worthless without someone else giving them purpose (orders).

[@Mar-dk3mp]

What I understood is that westerns tend to deny God, not only because they live in an Ealthy Society, it is also because they (we, as Western myself) are objectively the cause of the most evil things happen in this world (weapons, pollution, invations, wars and so on) You are so sad. (That why you do not have an actually comunity and you jump here, when you see a big western godless and Souless person talking about God and Chrstians) But may May God bless you anyway.

[@Mar-dk3mp]

@@lc7173 What I understood is that westerns tend to deny God, not only because they live in an Ealthy Society, it is also because they (we, as Western myself) are objectively the cause of the most evil things happen in this world (weapons, pollution, invations, wars and so on) You are so sad. (That why you do not have an actually comunity and you jump here, when you see a big western godless and Souless person talking about God and Chrstians) But may May God bless you anyway.

[@InformationIsTheEdge]

@@Mar-dk3mp That's pretty funny. First you pretend that your imaginary god is real then you use your unsupportable stance to claim some kind of moral high ground. As if your kind were not directly responsible for the worst, most horrific, murderous and tortious atrocities ever perpetrated upon human beings. To say nothing of the continued atrocities that are still perpetrated by "believers" to this day. The subjugation of women, homosexuals and other religions.

[@juliatuson3124]

Surrender is actually really beautiful and freeing, and takes a lot of effort to do. But certainly doesn't come an abdication of personal responsibility. I still take responsibility for my actions, I'm just going to surrender my efforts and the outcome to God, and do my best to please him. I don't know if that makes sense. I hope with all my heart you find peace and surrender.

[@imaginationave3687]

Imagine if John Wick ended like that.

[@Anonymityfan]

The problem with the analogy is that person existed before you dragged them into your house.

[@DianoiaNoesis]

He said we call that slavery and his response was great - walking into your own trap bro

[@FruitSnackProductionz]

It’s not slavery God gives you free will do you want to know what the free will is? It’s the choice of choosing god or not choosing god you are not forced into Christianity

[@_princessgf]

It's not slavery and will never be wrong because it's a mythical character who we do not actually know exists and has never shown itself. Of course he can do no wrong when he's a figment of imagination, able to be contorted to whatever the viewer desires. He can have whatever intentions you believe he does because he exists in your mind. You can never truly know the mind or God because he has never spoken for himself.

[@JNB0723]

@@FruitSnackProductionz I mean sure, a homosexual could choose to deny himself of the very feelings God gave him and live a pleasureless life, but that seems rather antithetical to his very existence.

[@TheAmazingGlenn]

​@@FruitSnackProductionz I respectfully disagree. Being send to hell for all eternity if you do not comply is not something I would call free will. The equivalant would be holding someone at gunpoint while informing them that if they do not comply, you will end their life. All while claiming that you aren't forcing them to do so.

[@zinzincoetzee1934]

​@@FruitSnackProductionzBut slaves have free will too tho. Does that mean slaves weren't slaves at all cuz they had free will???????? Just because you have free will doesnt mean someone cant force you to do something you dont wanna do. You slipped up on that comment dude

[@AlGhoul]

"It's funny that, isn't it?" Yes. *chef's kiss*

[@JohnSmith-do1ym]

I love how he uses the most benign example of having his house trashed as an analogy for human suffering, as if it comes anywhere close to dying of cancer or anything actually awful.

[@josephinenatsui4267]

The beauty of freewill is for the creature to submit to the Maker ❤✝️💯

[@gabbydafurry]

Ayo Joseph wtf. No wonder why the Bible accepts slavery ew

[@AmericanChoirboy]

operation "let them talk through their own fallacies and figure it out" is working perfectly.

[@ithinkiknowme6450]

I want Alex to debate with an Islamic apologist so baaaddd

[@nazarruulhaqi4046]

​@@ithinkiknowme6450 He did debate Mo Hijab

[@dininelbourne]

The talking through their fallacies part is going swimmingly. The figuring out part? Not so much.

[@loki6626]

It's almost impressive how much work theists put into making sense of nonsense. Almost.

[@wet-read]

It isn't just nonsense. It's monstrous nonsense.

[@randomhuman2595]

Cosmics analogy doesn't work because he was originally in another house not born and raised in God's house.

[@wyett123]

​@@randomhuman2595 that's even worse. That'd make God a parent or guardian, and an abusive one at that. "Someone call CPS. God threatened to torture me bc I ate shrimp"

[@crocopix]

​@@randomhuman2595 wow, you just proved his statement.

[@MossyMozart]

@Loki - My mother felt very religious, but at the same time was well-read in the various sciences. Growing up, it was almost painful seeing her struggle to unite the two concepts. She "knew" that god created the Earth & all things thereupon, but she also know that evolution was real, so she reconciled by forging a concept in her mind that god enjoyed billions of years of "experimenting" until he was satisfied. ............. [I do not know why this comment refuses to bond as a reply to @Loki 's comment. Commenting in these short-shorts always give me trouble.]

[@alexanderbean7737]

The problem with the house analogy is, it's not that you've been dragged into God's house, it's that there are no houses that are not God's. The real discussion is whether non-existence is preferable to an existence under God's moral law

[@aymen577]

Our creator said in Quran: "Did you think We had created you in vain (without any purpose), and that you would not be brought back to Us?’ (Quran 23:115) "Exalted is He (God) who holds all control in His hands; who has power over all things; ˹He is the One˺ Who created life and death in order to test which of you is best in deeds. And He is the Almighty, All-Forgiving. who created the seven heavens, one above the other. You will not see any flaw in what the Lord of Mercy creates. Look again! Can you see any flaw?" (Quran 67:1-3 ) "And [mention, O Prophet], when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority." They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?" God said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know."(Quran 2:30) "Can there be any doubt about God, the Creator of the heavens and earth? He calls you to Him in order to forgive you your sins and let you enjoy your life until the appointed hour.’ But they said, ‘You are only men like us. You want to turn us away from what our forefathers used to worship. Bring us clear proof then, [if you can].’ (Quran 14:10) "Do man think he will be left without purpose? Was he not a drop of sperm emitted (in lowly form)? Then he was a clinging clot, and [ God ] created [his form] and proportioned [him] producing from it both sexes, male and female. Is such ˹a Creator˺ unable to bring the dead back to life?" "We have indeed made whatever is on earth as an adornment for it, in order to test which of them is best in deeds." "We shall certainly test you with fear and hunger, and loss of property, lives, and crops. But [Prophet], give good news to those who are steadfast. those who say, when afflicted with a calamity, ‘We belong to God and to Him we shall return.’ (Quran 2:155-156) "Indeed, in the creation of the heavens and the earth and the alternation of the night and the day are signs for those of understanding. those who remember God while standing and sitting and on their sides, and reflect upon the creation of the heavens and the earth: “Our Lord, You did not create this in vain. Highly Exalted are You, so protect us from the punishment of the Fire." (Quran 3:190-191) "Indeed, We have sent revelation to you ˹O Prophet˺ as We sent revelation to Noah and the prophets after him. We also sent revelation to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and his descendants, ˹as well as˺ Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon. And to David We gave the Psalms." (Quran 4:163) "Those who have believed and whose hearts are assured by the remembrance of God . Verily in the remembrance of God do hearts find rest!" "O humanity! Indeed, God’s promise is true. So do not let the life of this world deceive you, nor let the Chief Deceiver(Satan) deceive you about God. Surely Satan is an enemy to you, so take him as an enemy. He only invites his followers to become inmates of the Blaze." (Quran 35:5-6) "And when My servants ask you, [O Muhammad], concerning Me - indeed I am near. I respond to the invocation of the supplicant when he calls upon Me. So let them respond to Me [by obedience] and believe in Me that they may be [rightly] guided." Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said : “When God loves one of his servant, He tests him to hear his supplication.”

[@Shilobotomized]

What compensation are we talking about? I've suffered my whole adult life, and despite my efforts I will surely suffer even more until I eventually die In which your God will send me to suffer for the rest of eternity because I did not believe in his existence through my pain

[@coolguy1127]

“I am so great I am so great everybody loves me I am so great”- Bart Simpson - God

[@rationald6799]

😂😂😂

[@MossyMozart]

@coolguy1127 - Or trump. (He thinks he is the Chosen One.)

[@andytabala6791]

This is what i've been saying for YEARS! i've been saying that if god exists, then he's a manipulative narcissistic psychopath. Imagine a human torturing "evil" people in the worst way possible while keeping them alive as long as possible to maximize pain and suffering. And the only "evil" thing they did is drink alcohol (for muslims) or eat meat (for hindus). But sure. Apparently god is soooooo loving and soooo forgiving.

[@Pancakegr8]

“But mah free will!” Yeah god sounds like the type of person who would let their baby stick a fork in an electrical socket just because they had the choice to do so.

[@zen-sufi]

This is exactly what the Gnostics believed about God. That he is a narc, psychopathic, evil Demiurge and the True God is somewhere outside this hell realm.

[@lucreziavilante5993]

​@@zen-sufi God exists outside of the hell, or he is part of the hell? Gnostics are just as confused as any Christian, with their adoption of Jewish mysticism.

[@rationald6799]

​@@Pancakegr8 theist are clueless as to how free will would even come into play. Their God would know everything that. Has occurred. or will occur. No decision by anyone could change what their God would know was going to happen. God either doesn't exist. Or not All knowing. Or one evil, insecure genocidal dick.😃

[@Pancakegr8]

@@rationald6799 One argument I’ve heard from a Muslim acquaintance of mine is that we still can have free will even if God ultimately knows what we will do. Which is fine I guess, I just don’t see how free will and punishment fit into the same scenario. It would seem like all of us are dice, and if we roll a number God doesn’t like, He punishes us in spite of knowing what number we would have rolled.

[@josephomeluk6534]

Cosmic really dropped the ball on this one ngl. This argument is actually extremely poor (coming from an atheist btw). Basically it’s not akin to forcing someone into your house because prior to entering you didn’t exist in the manner you do now or at all (depending on the religion we are referring to) therefore you weren’t forced into god’s house but more akin to spawning into it. The reason why this is important to distinguish is because god’s actions become more aligned with the nature of existence (life is generally suffering in order to prosper in some capacity) especially for civilizations that have significantly less quality of life technology. This means that the difference between suffering for success is intentionality. Nature did not have intentions because it’s a concept and not a sentient. However since religion purports that god is an entity that is significantly distinct from humans, his intentions themselves can no longer be held to those standards since his existence is not ever fully established making this argument terrible

[@WeanerBeaner69]

It was a very good argument actually. No matter how desperately you try and convince otherwise

[@josephomeluk6534]

@@WeanerBeaner69 it definitely is not a good argument.

[@smarandadomosaru5191]

This analogy is flawed to begin with. This analogy is flawed to begin with - it’s more like , we were born into God’s house, and are children of God, and because we are flawed we keep disobeying our fathers rules, which brings onto us our own suffering and allows us to suffer the consequences of our own actions at times, but because God is good he is merciful to us anyway and compensates us.

[@Davidutul]

By today's standards of morality, beating your child for not believing in you as their father while also you not showing yourself for years cuz "you went for milk" is pretty much illogical and imoral

[@delayedcreator4783]

now one thing left, you have to prove what you said

[@smarandadomosaru5191]

​@@Davidutul How exactly does God "abuse you". Why? Because He allows you suffer and that's not "fair"? Where does your concept of fair come from? By which standard are you measuring "fairness". You're forgetting THE main component of christianity: God Himself Suffered at OUR hands, though he was sinless and blameless to destroy death for US, nailed to the cross in the most heinous and humiliating way, though He is God, surely he could have come up with a way to avoid His own suffering to save us. Why would He do that? You ought to know you have no understanding of the christian meaning of suffering. We don't suffer at God's hand, we suffer at our own. And suffering is a necessicity and prequalification to understanding peace. You only see dirt because of your refusal to look up. I can explain things to you for a lifetime, but you will never understand simply because you don't seek to, and for that I am sorry for you.

[@smarandadomosaru5191]

@@delayedcreator4783 You could witness the sea literally parting in half and still find a reason not to believe. God is not a cosmic Butler.

[@Davidutul]

@@smarandadomosaru5191 i mean you could say that. If god was all good and all powerful he could prevent pain and the consequences of lacking the experience of pain. But no,i was referring to hell. Going to hell for Simply not believing your god to be real. Eternal punishment for not believing something that doesn't have proof of himself but instead bases himself only on faith ,while faith itself,is a gamble of 1 in 4000chanchr to win,since there are 4000 religions in the world. Interesting since as far as i am aware, gamble,is the game of the devil of your religion. Ironic. Not only that but Christianity, the biggest religion today(mostly catolics because they did wars and cruciades to spread their religion) is only 30% of the population. So at the very least, 70% of people will end up in hell. If god truly cared and loved us, his plan would be better,so that more people would believe in him ,or , at the very least, not make that a requirement to go in heaven. So either he is not real or he is a sadist that enjoys to look at us how we suffer as a majority

[@calvinmusquez9162]

Alex channeling his inner Hitchens at the end there lol

[@loserlemby7273]

By being wrong?

[@Youcanthandlemyhandle899]

​@@loserlemby7273 🤦‍♂️

[@patrickday8067]

@@loserlemby7273 cope

[@emmettdonkeydoodle6230]

@@loserlemby7273 how was he wrong?

[@heisenberg2345]

​@@loserlemby7273 By not lying to himself

[@stochastic42]

If the original 4 atheist advocates were the 4 horsemen, Alex is the second comming.

[@JenniferMoleski]

Wouldn't it be more honest to say that we were forced to party in a house that has a list of rules plastered all over parts of it? You're told that the owner put these rules up and when he comes home (you don't know when that will be. It could be in 5 minutes or could be way later. All you know is that he always comes home.) he's going to watch the surveillance cameras and give you the consequences you deserve. He's super fair though. Not everyone _likes_ the rules, but everyone knows the rules. Some people don't believe the hype. They think the house is abandoned and when you're done you just leave, that's it. Others believe he will come home and give you a consequence. The house is HUGE! Some rooms everyone is doing blow and having orgies, in other rooms people are praying and singing--there's something for everyone. Some people say it's boring, but those people are always hanging out in the hall.

[@Doc-Holliday1851]

The mistake being made is that A. There’s the assumption that there is somewhere else to go B. That the two individuals are equal in any way Neither of these is the case. What’s being described isn’t one person who is equal to another kidnapping you and forcing you into their home. What’s being described is something every single parent has done since the beginning of time. Create life, bring life into your home, attempt to instruct that life on proper conduct, and when the life is old enough it makes a decision as to whether or not it obeys your rules and wants a relationship with you. The complaint being made in this video is identical in form and function to that of a teenager saying “I won’t do what you tell me dad! I didn’t ask to be born!”

[@somexp12]

"rules plastered all over it . . . everyone knows the rules" Nope. That's not at all fair. It'd be more accurate to say there were people in the house claiming to know the owner, although everyone is aware that none of these people ever actually *met* the owner - they just claim to "know" him in some vague, unspecified way. These people promote differing and contradicting lists of rules they claim the owner made. Only these people are totally incapable of agreeing with each other on what the rules are, with each list of rules explicitly forbidding us to follow any of the others. So incapable of agreeing, in fact, that they have a habit of killing each other over these disagreements. Further, very few of these rules are at all intuitive. Of those rules that *are* intuitive, the people who promote these rule lists are at *least* as likely to violate them as other people. By all appearances, most are using the more esoteric rules as a *substitute* for those that make sense. The question is not whether we take any plastered rules seriously. The question is which, if any, of these *self-proclaimed* "friends of the owner" do we take seriously. If we do take any seriously, the next question is "which ones?," because it is impossible to follow all of them.

[@htpkey]

There is a user called Mar who has been spamming your channel. I have seen him spam the exact same message atleast 15 times across multiple video's. I hope people continue to report his spamming.

[@rationald6799]

Thanks for the reminder. That gentleman Mar is absolutely horrible. Along with another gentleman called David Evans. They display such bigotry arrogance. And an overblown sense of self worth. They have no interest in an open honest discussion.

[@matwatson7947]

"It's funny that isn't it" 😂 - Hitchens would be proud...

[@derpsiroop1884]

Bro just started digging

[@epicenter5126]

We would never think it moral if humans could act as capricious and savage as God. That should tell you right there all you need to know about religious moral objectivism.

[@donaldlawson1334]

What about the person who suffers horribly on this earth and still goes to hell because they didn’t believe? Where’s the “compensation” there?

[@basileusofstupidonia6462]

And what if their suffering on Earth was caused by someone who later became a Christian and went to Heaven while the victimized person goes to Hell? It just gets worse and worse!

[@sharkybrickfilms5716]

@@basileusofstupidonia6462suffering is not innately bad. You are refusing to acknowledge suffering as part of the human condition, and the idea that being a victim doesn’t make you any better of a person than the one who is responsible for your suffering. Think about how messed up it would be if all slaves went to heaven and all enslavers went to hell. It would be equally messed up if it were the other way round. That’s why the determination of where our soul goes is up to God, not to whether we were the victim or the victimizer

[@basileusofstupidonia6462]

@@sharkybrickfilms5716 I deleted my earlier comment because I went off on you when I shouldn't have. I'm sorry if you saw it. I think you missed the point I was trying to make, I was saying that in Christianity, a horribly abusive person can get a free pass into heaven if they join the fan club of Jesus, while the victims of their abuse can be sent to hell for not joining the fan club of Jesus. Do you see a problem there?

[@basileusofstupidonia6462]

@@sharkybrickfilms5716 Why is "acceptance of Jesus" a requirement? Why can't trying to be a good person be good enough if you're at least trying? Because loving Jesus is apparently more important right? That's what I mean by being in his fan club. You have to love him or get tortured forever, right?

[@patrickbyrne5070]

What about childhood cancer and tiny parasites that eat away poor childrens eyes… not sure where ‘compensation’ is there either…

[@Adam-gl1qv]

Trent is a perfect example of an intelligent person using their intelligence to come up with reasons to justify their nonsensical ideas

[@rajeshwarsharma1716]

If Satan is the greatest deciever, what if the so called God is actually Satan who is really decieving us all?

[@BrandonAlan-wv9di]

Just because you think He d0esnt own you, doesnt mean you're not in His universe.

[@chelsgo8675]

He admit it

[@Mar-dk3mp]

Man I will pray for you to have (believe) God again in your life. Also because: Believe in God is *Free * It those not required any political changes (believer can be con right, centre, wing, liberal, conservative and so on). * You will not change that Much, only Believe in Him. * Once you are alone is only Him you have. * So if you feel sick. * Or Someone of your family, unfortunately does. * once you get older you will have him * Or before to die. * You will not think the people who lived and the one you knew left this world are Nothing (and in some cases is like they never existed, because none remembers them or have a picture of them, but have reached God. * You will see people not just human but sons with a Father (which believe me will help, because you give them another positive attribute, which will help you to define them with more meaning). * You will have another purpose in this life: which is not. Be good and help people, but pray for them (and praying is a religious thing) and work not only for this life but also for after life,because working for the next life give you more hope and let you think about your future future... Just as you think for tomorrow. And basically we stop this thing that we westerns do to be the most arrogants people in te world, and again losing the faith on God, only because we live in a ealthy society we want live materiliscally, especially for our youth (they will need God anyway once older, believe it or not). I hope you understand that (without any further questions) May God bless you and the peace for Jesus upon you ☺️.

[@nelsoncherrier3855]

​@@Mar-dk3mpYou do realise nobody cares about your prayers, right? You probably mean well but the fact is, your messages here are useless and you will convert anyone to your religion. Don't be an ass.

[@mr.fahrenheit310]

​@@Mar-dk3mp but he admitted it....are you saying there's a flaw in the reasoning which the xtian in the video did not think of? Because I can't either.

[@lelonmusk4836]

​@@Mar-dk3mpI think you're missing the point. Atheists don't have a disbelief in God because we don't think anything good can come of it. Of course a belief in God can give you something to live for in life and it can change your world view to a positive one, but the problem is, that atheists, including me, simply don't believe. Its impossible to force someone to truly believe in something they don't believe in. If a person is not convinced, you won't be able to convince them by listing positive effects of changing their position. You convince someone by bringing up arguments on why their current view may be flawed and convince them that way.

[@am45_001]

​​​@@mr.fahrenheit310he's spamming copypasta, don't pay attention to it

[@PhrontDoor]

Doesn't matter to whom the house belongs. Making others suffer against their will is wrong.

[@Doc-Holliday1851]

Then we better stop making each other suffer

[@aymen577]

Our creator said in Quran: "Did you think We had created you in vain (without any purpose), and that you would not be brought back to Us?’ (Quran 23:115) "Exalted is He (God) who holds all control in His hands; who has power over all things; ˹He is the One˺ Who created life and death in order to test which of you is best in deeds. And He is the Almighty, All-Forgiving. who created the seven heavens, one above the other. You will not see any flaw in what the Lord of Mercy creates. Look again! Can you see any flaw?" (Quran 67:1-3 ) "And [mention, O Prophet], when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority." They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?" God said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know."(Quran 2:30) "Can there be any doubt about God, the Creator of the heavens and earth? He calls you to Him in order to forgive you your sins and let you enjoy your life until the appointed hour.’ But they said, ‘You are only men like us. You want to turn us away from what our forefathers used to worship. Bring us clear proof then, [if you can].’ (Quran 14:10) "Do man think he will be left without purpose? Was he not a drop of sperm emitted (in lowly form)? Then he was a clinging clot, and [ God ] created [his form] and proportioned [him] producing from it both sexes, male and female. Is such ˹a Creator˺ unable to bring the dead back to life?" "We have indeed made whatever is on earth as an adornment for it, in order to test which of them is best in deeds." "We shall certainly test you with fear and hunger, and loss of property, lives, and crops. But [Prophet], give good news to those who are steadfast. those who say, when afflicted with a calamity, ‘We belong to God and to Him we shall return.’ (Quran 2:155-156) "Indeed, in the creation of the heavens and the earth and the alternation of the night and the day are signs for those of understanding. those who remember God while standing and sitting and on their sides, and reflect upon the creation of the heavens and the earth: “Our Lord, You did not create this in vain. Highly Exalted are You, so protect us from the punishment of the Fire." (Quran 3:190-191) "Indeed, We have sent revelation to you ˹O Prophet˺ as We sent revelation to Noah and the prophets after him. We also sent revelation to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and his descendants, ˹as well as˺ Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon. And to David We gave the Psalms." (Quran 4:163) "Those who have believed and whose hearts are assured by the remembrance of God . Verily in the remembrance of God do hearts find rest!" "O humanity! Indeed, God’s promise is true. So do not let the life of this world deceive you, nor let the Chief Deceiver(Satan) deceive you about God. Surely Satan is an enemy to you, so take him as an enemy. He only invites his followers to become inmates of the Blaze." (Quran 35:5-6) "And when My servants ask you, [O Muhammad], concerning Me - indeed I am near. I respond to the invocation of the supplicant when he calls upon Me. So let them respond to Me [by obedience] and believe in Me that they may be [rightly] guided." Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said : “When God loves one of his servant, He tests him to hear his supplication.”

[@uhohgecko505]

“It’s funny that, isn’t it?” THE GASP I JUST GUSPED 😭

[@jerryodonovan8624]

The reality is that we live in an era that has religious belief worldwide in significant decline. Their days of dominance are over. Amen to that.

[@user-sr9wz4ri5t]

What world are you living in? Cause in this world the search for the truth and the search to know life is not meaningless and we weren’t made by accident like the Big Bang or any of those other theories is on the rise. Heck China and North Korea, countries where if you are Christian you killed, Christianity is growing like crazy. You know why? Because it’s the truth.

[@cheetah0716]

Yes amen to that

[@shicksr1]

And the world is so much better now ?

[@poet4966]

​@shicksr1 i mean better because now the wars like the crusades and most other conflicts based on religion are not happening that much and eventhough the world is not perfect now is better compared to what is was before when religion was the main thing human beings had to give sense to their life and conflicts since religion and radicalism are not as worldwide as they werw before if we were still dominated by religion a lot of the technology and medicine we have we would be set as something evil and forbiden

[@Sky-yh3ml]

God don’t need my worship serious dude get a self esteem of your own! Any source of creation needing constant adoration is probable cause for indifference and being single😂

[@EatHoneyBeeHappy]

Christians just don't view slavery as a bad thing the way we do, because the Bible takes precedence over their own moral compass.

[@homiesenatep]

Slavery is just a good thing to Christians, smh. At least to the extremists

[@RustyCog]

You do know they ended slavery on the basis of it being unbiblical? And of course the Bible takes precedence over their own moral compass, that compass is the same one that makes rapists murderers and thieves

[@derdevil8307]

Not true, as a catholic I view slavery as a vile and disgusting thing that no human should ever inflict on another human. The Bible never promotes slavery just because it talks about it or because someone mentioned in the Bible promotes it. One of the Ten Commandments is love thy neighbor as thyself which is directly against slavery. Neighbor is meant to represent every human no matter what.

[@EatHoneyBeeHappy]

​@@derdevil8307 The Bible doesn't just mention slavery, it includes details about how to punish slaves, and encourages the practice. Love thy neighbor is not about every single human, and doesn't mention slavery. There is a commandment that says not to bear false witness, so please stop doing it. Read what your Bible says about slavery, but please don't change your mind about owning other people as property, whether it be god or man. I'm glad you oppose the practice, but you're not going to defeat the pro-slavery Christians by lying about it to non-Christians, that only helps them.

[@jacobstorey6376]

Alex is like a fish that denies water

[@shamefulcritic1125]

“It’s god’s house.” And my boss’s office is his office. It still doesn’t give him the right to beat me up for not doing what he says.

[@OH_jiwon]

love the loop

[@jmc2830]

i don't understand this debate. i'm not even religious and i know that within Christianity, "god" gave humans freewill. the reason suffering exists, is because we have a choice and some people choose evil. it has nothing to do with god. the entire test is that you brave the suffering and keep your virtues through it all and you get rewarded with heaven. if you fold to it, you go to hell. it's real simple guys, the whole "if god's real why do bad things happen to good people".... "gotcha" moment so many atheists have tried. doesn't make any sense... and to anyone with even a slight understanding of the religion should know this. why Christians' enable this convocation has got me stumped.

[@timandmonica]

I can't think of a single person who would want to accept money from someone who dragged them into their house and beat them and then later said that they would pay them money because that would make up for it. No, sir, that does not make up for it. I would feel disgusted to see a check like that.

[@kipwhitler6804]

getting some real Frost/Nixon vibes from christian homeboy at the end. "if God does it, it's not slavery"

[@YLLPal]

This is the entry in Merriam-Webster for "self-own"

[@htpkey]

I double checked this. WTH? The site even has a picture of this YT short in the description. All jokes aside, the word self-own is currently not added to merriam-webster because it doesn't meet their criteria for entry. They have written an article in the "Words We're Watching" section called: A Most Incredible 'Self-Own' If they do add the word they should include a reference to this video.

[@jonathanhollenbeak9047]

We assume suffering is the highest crime when it isn't. Why do we discipline a child? Because they need it.

[@justinmccurdy9319]

I like how people continually treat God like he’s a human being as if they understand his mind. If God is real, he must be a transcendental cosmic entity that we cannot possibly comprehend. How can we reasonably judge such a being by our own standards?

[@Davidutul]

And what makes you think in the first place that this is how god should be?even if a god is real,why humans try to define someone they don't see and think is way above them in the first place

[@aymen577]

Our creator said in Quran: "Did you think We had created you in vain (without any purpose), and that you would not be brought back to Us?’ (Quran 23:115) "Exalted is He (God) who holds all control in His hands; who has power over all things; ˹He is the One˺ Who created life and death in order to test which of you is best in deeds. And He is the Almighty, All-Forgiving. who created the seven heavens, one above the other. You will not see any flaw in what the Lord of Mercy creates. Look again! Can you see any flaw?" (Quran 67:1-3 ) "And [mention, O Prophet], when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority." They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?" God said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know."(Quran 2:30) "Can there be any doubt about God, the Creator of the heavens and earth? He calls you to Him in order to forgive you your sins and let you enjoy your life until the appointed hour.’ But they said, ‘You are only men like us. You want to turn us away from what our forefathers used to worship. Bring us clear proof then, [if you can].’ (Quran 14:10) "Do man think he will be left without purpose? Was he not a drop of sperm emitted (in lowly form)? Then he was a clinging clot, and [ God ] created [his form] and proportioned [him] producing from it both sexes, male and female. Is such ˹a Creator˺ unable to bring the dead back to life?" "We have indeed made whatever is on earth as an adornment for it, in order to test which of them is best in deeds." "We shall certainly test you with fear and hunger, and loss of property, lives, and crops. But [Prophet], give good news to those who are steadfast. those who say, when afflicted with a calamity, ‘We belong to God and to Him we shall return.’ (Quran 2:155-156) "Indeed, in the creation of the heavens and the earth and the alternation of the night and the day are signs for those of understanding. those who remember God while standing and sitting and on their sides, and reflect upon the creation of the heavens and the earth: “Our Lord, You did not create this in vain. Highly Exalted are You, so protect us from the punishment of the Fire." (Quran 3:190-191) "Indeed, We have sent revelation to you ˹O Prophet˺ as We sent revelation to Noah and the prophets after him. We also sent revelation to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and his descendants, ˹as well as˺ Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon. And to David We gave the Psalms." (Quran 4:163) "Those who have believed and whose hearts are assured by the remembrance of God . Verily in the remembrance of God do hearts find rest!" "O humanity! Indeed, God’s promise is true. So do not let the life of this world deceive you, nor let the Chief Deceiver(Satan) deceive you about God. Surely Satan is an enemy to you, so take him as an enemy. He only invites his followers to become inmates of the Blaze." (Quran 35:5-6) "And when My servants ask you, [O Muhammad], concerning Me - indeed I am near. I respond to the invocation of the supplicant when he calls upon Me. So let them respond to Me [by obedience] and believe in Me that they may be [rightly] guided." Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said : “When God loves one of his servant, He tests him to hear his supplication.”

[@RustyCog]

@@Davidutulbecause time can’t create time Space can’t create space so something outside of that must have created it, which sounds like an infinitely powerful god, as for the rest of your argument your just agreeing with him

[@Davidutul]

@@RustyCog well your statement is very complicated when we look at it closer Space is expanding,suggesting in a way space creates more space And the expansion of time is by the time passing as past grows (kinda) Space and time might also be another form of energy,so basically energy transforms into space and time just how it passes thought other forms like different particles, kinetic energy and so on But even if space and time wouldn't actually create itself,who says it just didn't always existed?

[@RustyCog]

@@Davidutul well that assumes that there always was space and time, which could not be possible because we could never reach this point in time by infinity’s own definition the only way that could also be possible is if it were for an ultra powerful transcendent being

[@austinhernandez2716]

God can do the most evil, abhorrent actions imaginable, and Christians will make up excuses for him.

[@user-sr9wz4ri5t]

We don’t “make excuses for him” because there is no need to make excuses. Every one of his actions as a reason behind it. For example the destruction of and entire city in the Bible. This was because they were covered in sin, they were involved in witch craft, they sacrificed there children and they were overall evil people.

[@aokiji3347]

They will say ur taking the verse out of context ,god is evil being who can’t even control his anger and who doesn’t control their anger kids 🤦‍♂️

[@scottgodlewski306]

​@@user-sr9wz4ri5t Would you also claim that every one of his inactions has a reason?

[@JohnSmith-qx8ll]

So will cringe secular worshippers. Only worse.

[@Southpaw88]

​@@user-sr9wz4ri5twhat's the reasoning behind a kid with cancer is that supposed to be a life lesson, for who the kid or parent? if the kid then what life lesson if the kid gonna die soon?

[@mugogrog]

I'd go with a child as an example instead: A father who tortures a child and then promises to "make up for it" is still guilty of having tortured his child and his lawyer defending him by saying "but it's his house" would be laughed at. That is not a person we would generally revere... In this analogy I suppose an apologist is the lawyer so perhaps the proper response is to laugh.

[@RustyCog]

I’d go with father has a child, child rebels against him thus causing the child to suffer, the father offers a way out of suffering and rebellion and the child accepts or denies

[@Stinker8291]

@@RustyCogso you support child abuse?

[@RustyCog]

@@Stinker8291 not what I meant by suffering more like the child does something which itself causes him to suffer and also even if it doesn’t then the parent still should punish the child just not in an abusive way

[@Stinker8291]

@@RustyCog so God is just a dad that left for milk, and punishes his kids by drowning them, and even killing babys and animals that didn't even do anything.

[@RustyCog]

@@Stinker8291 god has not abandoned us we have abandoned him through sin and yet he still accepts us and gives us a path to redemption and he does not perform these evils rather he lets them be carried out as he has the right to do its merely the consequences of our own actions and additionally what’s 80 years of suffering(which would be rejoiced through Christ) compared to eternity of fulfillment with god

[@pathos92]

Yet each and every one of us strive to continue to exist within this sphere of suffering

[@This_is_the_Amphitrite_cabin]

the christian missed the part where god isn’t the one who makes people suffer.

[@myria2834]

Well, the original sin was basically equivalent to a couple extremely underdressed toddlers breaking into their dad's cookie jar because their half-siblinf told them it tasted really really good, and instead of punishing the one who manipulated them, their dad chose to brutally and inhumanely punish them for the innocent nativity that he himself fostered in them. Seriously one petty and abusive father.

[@tonyvolti4511]

In this analogy he also criples the half sibling by chopping all his limbs too.

[@cheshire0772]

Take it a step further: we were told that because of Eve's sin, women were ETERNALLY punished with monthly bleeding and labour pains. Imagine explaining that to your daughter and then not having any other explanation for our menstrual cycles: God was mad at your great, great, great times147 grandma, so now you have endometriosis Remember to tithe!!! 💀🙄🤷🏽‍♀️

[@sand2935]

Not quite. The suffering we inherited through original sin are reflective of our separated state from God. In choosing to put Him away we also accept the result of separation from God which is suffering.

[@AnnoyingNewsletters]

​@@sand2935 what? So, God knows everything, and makes a human guy from dirt, but doesn't think that he should make a reproductive partner for him and doesn't bother to have him reproduce through mitosis or something? Finally makes a woman, from part of the guy... They're developmentally delayed toddlers in adult bodies, since he withheld the *knowledge of good and evil* from them, which would also suggest they didn't know cause and effect. And they have zero life experience. He tells them not to eat that specific, pleasing to eat fruit, doesn't bother to so much as put a baby gate around it, and somehow _goes away_ despite being omnipresent. If the serpent 🐍 was actually supposed to be guarding the tree, and, it not only failed to do so, but it actively encouraged them to eat the fruit, then punishing that *individual* serpent might make sssense. But to have set up the whole world 🌍 if not the entire universe to be subject to the _Fall of Man_ if they ate the fruit is some seriously sadistic Rube Goldberg mousetrap 🪤 logic. Odd that an all powerful creator could or would make everything in such an utterly flawed way if it wasn't intentional. People commit acts that are considered sin by God. There was no reason for *Original Sin.* The basic biological drives that he supposedly gave us lead to coveting, lying, killing, disobedience, etc. How is that possible for a just, kind, and loving God, much less an all knowing, all powerful, omnipresent one?

[@pegasusactua2985]

​@@sand2935 So your God is just a petty asshole then? Got it.

[@d5orin]

So much love for all the British atheists speaking out. Proud to call them my neighbors overseas.

[@izaakdamon1979]

As an British atheist myself i think atheism has ruined the country culture, by taking influences off America culture that led to to nany outcomes like the great replacement.

[@mikedomenick9482]

I grew up watching Hitch, and later Harris. O’Connor shows immense promise

[@MrAbsolute2468]

Why did the big bang explode out of nowhere🗿✝️

[@dyanaprajna4556]

That last statement by the atheist went right over that christians head.

[@markcharron]

As a Christian, it always astounds me how afraid of suffering atheists are. Christians accept suffering as a natural part of life that not even Jesus himself got out of having to endure. We praise God when good things happen and praise God when bad things happen. We are not attached to consolation, nor do we fear desolation. We are not called merely to chase temporary highs or exempt ourselves or run from discomforts. Like the Buddhists, we practice detachment, and in detachment, we find not only constancy and joy, but also a God who has been there with us, and calls us towards an eternity of happiness with him. Atheists meanwhile, all they have is chasing highs and running from pain, like animals, like toddlers.

[@dyanaprajna4556]

@@markcharron don't get out much?

[@chad63]

@@markcharron atheist are afraid of suffering? well its not atheist who pray "please dont make me/them etc suffer". funny that, isnt it?

[@markcharron]

@@chad63 please don't make anyone suffer needlessly, more like it. The point is, people of good will, like me, are not your enemy. So you don't need to be snotty with us.

[@keshavthakur2098]

​@@markcharronhow you know someone is suffering needlessly my friend when GOD got a grand plan for everyone maybe needless suffering fits in GRAND PLAN OF GOD also yeah praying is begging to be off the hook the guy who isn't putting his head down and begging to end his misery than working against negative situation he is in is braver

[@alphijr]

Perfect loop

[@Rooikat]

I'm a Christian, however I'm with the atheist on this one. That was a terrible analogy. I'm sorry if someone came into my house and destroyed everything, then apologised and paid for the damages, I still would bliksem them. Does this Catholic not know that those who believe in Jesus Christ, there bodies are the temple (house) of God and God will destroy those who destroy His temple (house)? 1 Corinthians 3:16-17

[@AnonOmous-lj1qn]

This looks like a great intelectual debate. Who is it?

[@WeanerBeaner69]

Intellectual from only one side

[@suzbone]

Hahahahahaha reminds me of that "You ARE the best caller!" episode of ACA a few years back

[@pala1blood240]

Alex be owning these ignorant hypocrites left and right😂

[@markcharron]

As a Christian, it always astounds me how afraid of suffering atheists are. Christians accept suffering as a natural part of life that not even Jesus himself got out of having to endure. We praise God when good things happen and praise God when bad things happen. We are not attached to consolation, nor do we fear desolation. We are not called merely to chase temporary highs or exempt ourselves or run from discomforts. Like the Buddhists, we practice detachment, and in detachment, we find not only constancy and joy, but also a God who has been there with us, and calls us towards an eternity of happiness with him. Atheists meanwhile, all they have is chasing highs and running from pain, like animals.

[@pala1blood240]

@@markcharron Keep telling yourself that. You can't stand the reality of the world so you make up things that make you feel better about yourself. Gullibility at its finest.

[@markcharron]

@@pala1blood240 So I assume that you don't make yourself feel better?

[@pala1blood240]

@@markcharron I feel better when i do good things for my fellow humans. i don't need a god to tell me. Simple as that. You do good things, you feel good, you do bad things, you feel bad.

[@markcharron]

@@pala1blood240 "Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love." (1 John 4:7-8) Ergo, if you are doing right by your neighbor, then you know God.