Atlus STILL has a DLC Problem

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Atlus recently announced some new DLC for Soul Hackers 2 and it looks pretty overpriced. In this video I discuss the DLC for this game and also look at some of Atlus's anti-consumer moves for other recent releases.
Intro by Lyric: / @lyric3595
Background by Leehzart: / leehzart1

[@gidan1128]

Day 1 story DLC has always been such a ridiculous concept to me. It's not that you're adding new content to the game after it released, you've just decided that some of the already existing content is "premium" for some reason and has to be bought separately. It just makes me think content is being stripped from the base game rather than being added to.

[@jokerbattle7331]

@@lukemorgan6166 especially when it comes to anime related shit dumb otakus will spend thousands just to see their 2d waifus in bikini.

[@blumiu2426]

If it's already in place Day 1, then yes, it has been removed. That is always the case and what separates it from DLC made later, unless someone datamines and finds out that was held back.

[@suisui5930]

@@blumiu2426 just like street fighter x tekken "DLC" fiasco

[@thefool8224]

the worse part are the ones that defend it. "the game was finished months before and the dlc was extra work they did" - as they drool all over the floor

[@manuelredgrave8348]

With 5's story not explaining or mentioning the mandala system and other shit without the fiend dlc it was pretty clear they removed that part of the story from the game for a quick buck, even tho it was always meant to be there.

[@artemisstryfe2482]

My favorite part of P3P and P4G were the costumes. You’d buy them at the shops in game or find them in the dungeons and it was always a fun surprise. But the best part of it was that you could talk to your party members about their/your outfits, get Naoto’s opinion on an out fit with a skirt, chie havin a grand time because she’s wearing Bruce Lee’s outfit, all the girls being embarrassed by the skimpy bikini armor, or the guys embarrassed over crossdressing. This is 100% gone in p5. The costumes are just there for me to see and that’s it. I hate the fact that I had to pay real money for the costumes only to find out 1 there’s no interactivity for them and 2 there’s no in game costumes at all. I’d be fine if it were one or two costumes as dlc and the rest in game but I guess I’m old school in my gaming ways. It just screams we don’t care what you like give us your money.

[@spydersoup8447]

The sad part is there's unused text boxes which had the Persona 5 characters react to the costumes they're wearing with most of them referencing the schools from past Persona games. Somehow, that was cut.

[@Yung.Ert.]

Idk if paying extra money for skins is what would be defined as “old school”

[@amysel]

Persona 5 costumes do have something in p5, they have music attached to them, though I don't think sacrificing interactions was a good move

[@dolphinboi-playmonsterranc9668]

@@amysel Paying for music that you can just look up on youtube and listen to while playing

[@Frewo_]

@@Yung.Ert. The "old school" part refered to expecting there would be in the base game extra costumes, like Ultimate Spiderman (ps2). But would be okay with 1-2 extra on DLC. Yeah, it sucks since x360 we see DLC coming to games and getting more and more abusive, like day 1 dlc is absolute ridiculous if they have all that content ready and release it as paid DLC it's really scummy. Goodbye to unlocking costumes in games by completing secrets, puzzles, challenges, etc. Swipe your credit card folks.

[@allergyjelly]

I think Mara being locked behind DLC is the most egregious. Mara is one of the staple demons, he’s in basically every game and usually has a quest revolving around him. Making you pay for Mara is like making you pay for Jack Frost or Pixie, it makes no sense.

[@ShaimingLong]

Don't say that out loud! You'll give them ideas!

[@MrBenenator]

Ironically yet appropriately-inappropriate enough, it's a dick move.

[@Q-gf8vb]

Pay to use demons

[@1993StrangeBoy]

Even on SMT Dx2 which is the most money hungry game of the franchise Mara is easy to get as a F2P player Atlus really reached a new low with SH2, I fear for the future of the franchise...

[@MrBenenator]

@@1993StrangeBoy I started fearing for it with how the new guard disrespected and completely misrepresented the mythology of multiple deities and added lolicon-bait designs in IV:A and SJ:R, tbh. And since Odin's new design, and Demeter's, was even brought into 3D with SMTV, my fears were confirmed. These DLC issues bring things to a whole new tier of bad news, though.

[@YasEmisDaBus]

The game is launching for $100 down here in Australia. The standard price for a AAA game is $70-$80. Plus a $60 Season Pass. $160 for the full game. (About $115 USD). I could buy a used PS4 for that money if I'm lucky

[@1monkey1typewriter]

Good grief! My condolences.

[@tuannguyenthai1697]

I live in a third world country and the regional prices are still the same as in the US. They don't care about regional pricing at all.

[@Gato-be2jr]

i live in a third world country and the premium edition on steam costs 50 dollars and the base one 40

[@ChrithBraown]

I live in Australia. I will voluntarily pay this price because I want to support what I believe is premium content. Think about why there are so few studios like Atlus. Because they arent financially viable. If you want to see the companies you love thrive, dont expect to pay the same as a AAA title that has an expected turnover of 20m units and investor backing.

[@shawklan27]

I ain't buying this game at launch in fact I never wanyed to in the first place but this dlc nonsense just makes me want to stay away for a long while now

[@HARBRINGERZERO]

DLC is like a disease. I remember my first introduction to dlc was in Assassin’s Creed 2 where they removed the 2 sequences right before the end. I started the last sequence at the Vatican and was so confused as to how the hell we got there. Disgusting practice when they remove content to nickel and dime you for it later after you purchase it. You’ve earned a new sub.

[@ashirii8347]

My first interaction was Fallout 3. No scummy tactics, no bullshit, more content for a few bucks nearly a half a year after release

[@Cuprite1024]

Like, if DLC is done a while after the game's release, sure, whatever. But if it's day 1 (Especially if it's story DLC), that's another story. Day 1 story DLC is the perfect manifestation of greed.

[@SuperOtakuKyo]

I just hate the idea of them having story content that will be available day one, but you have to pay for and costs 10 USD. I hate the idea of pay to win boost items as well, but willing to accept the costume DLC even if it is kind of ridiculous. Them selling demons is always a mixed bag for me. Like, them selling the Maniax version with Dante as DLC I could accept for Nocturne Remaster, but selling demons even if they are demons that are rarely featured is just incredibly scummy especially locking Mara behind DLC. Only paid DLC should've been the costumes and maybe only Nemissa, everything else seems bogus. But, Atlus has been like this for literally years and they show no signs of stopping. In fact, this is not at all their worst instance of selling DLC. I'd argue Nocturne Remaster is a contender in that department with the booster content. Also sucks they have a P5 costume set exclusive for digital preorders and they have a separate P5 costume set that was leaked that will be part of the costume set DLC. Edit: In the case of the anime, it is not on Atlus it is because it is done through Aniplex. It is rare an Aniplex show for example that ran for 12-13 episodes costs less than 120 or so dollars. This is because they are basically charging the overseas audience the same prices as in Japan and also usually only offer collector's editions sets which brings the asking price even higher.

[@FakeHeroFang]

I find that people handwave the item/exp boosting kinda crap when I bring it up because it's completely unnecessary, but idk it still puts a bad taste in my mouth. If a lot of people think it's unnecessary, why sell it? It's like DMC5 selling orbs, you don't ever need to buy them and it's still a fine game, but the fact that it's even on the store page just dangling there in front of you feels gross. You know SOMEBODY must be buying it, otherwise they just would not bother with such a thing.

[@SuperOtakuKyo]

@@FakeHeroFang Boost items I can see the appeal of. For people who already played the game they may want to just rush through some content or to get certain items easier. Also, it can be a decent alternative instead of lowering a game's difficulty entirely. This kind of thing should be a feature in the base game for accessibility and not just to nickel and dime people especially in the case of Nocturne remastered where its a 20 year old game and many people already played it and may want to experience it differently.

[@renren47618]

@@FakeHeroFang i bought the boosting crap on Smt V because i got too lazy for grinding to defeat Shiva

[@pforgottonsoul]

@@FakeHeroFang i mean its not a multiplayer game and in no way affects your personal enjoyment of the game so who gives a fuck? you don't want it don't buy it.

[@renren47618]

@@hexzas You don't need the DLC demons or the costumes to end Soul Hackers 2 too, ya know?

[@javik9165]

I don’t really give a crap about the aesthetic dlc, but locking up story that has already been made behind dlc from the very beginning is horrible. Also, $400 for the most mid adaptation of all time? No thanks. The only good thing that P5 the animation brought was the Valentine’s Day ova, which was kinda neat.

[@mamayareborn]

Valentine's day cringe, you mean. Also; aesthetic DLC may not matter to you, but it wouldn't be such a big priority for so many developers if it didn't matter a lot to the majority of people, so it still matters. Whether that includes you or not is irrelevant -- it still compels most people to buy, **otherwise they wouldn't do it**.

[@ofilosofoouumfumante5655]

@@mamayareborn obvious

[@smtandearthboundsuck8400]

It’s piratin’ time!

[@BlackCat-ph2kk]

Costume dlc, fair. Demons that aren’t unique and story locked out of a DLC is just EA level silly. Never had played the smt games with dlc and feel like having any dlc that involves story is just reeks of greed, seems like Altus has already dipped their feet in to just take advantage of a loyal fan base that seems to not really show a grand scale of backlash for DLC prices/DLC in general.

[@mamayareborn]

No, it isn't fair. You think it's fair because you've been brainwashed into accepting it through repetition. This kind of stuff was all unlockable just a few years ago -- unlockable as in, you actually obtain it by achieving something in-game. Don't let them mindfuck you. There is absolutely nothing "fair" about this. It is objectively taking content away from inside the game and selling it on the side.

[@DeiManThe1]

i think making story dlc that you don't get for free is always in a grey area for me because we can't know why they didn't just put it in the main game maybe it was time problems, maybe they legit just didn't come up with it until it was to late to implement and that would mean extra cost to make it so in those cases making you pay for it makes sense

[@alenezi989a3]

@@DeiManThe1 Capcom releases Free DLCs for Monster Hunter all the time after the game release and add a lot of content like new monster, weapons, armor and story. what Atlus is doing is plain disgusting. I don't mind story DLC if it released later with enough content to warrant the additional work and price, but day 1 story DLC means they just cut part of the story and resold it to you after you paid full price.

[@DeiManThe1]

@@alenezi989a3 monster hunter world has a lot of costume DLCs for the handler and they all cost real money same with emotes, stickers and more those new monsters are very rearly actually new monsters and almost always monsters from previous games or new varients so nothing impressive the only free story stuff that i remember ever coming to a MH game was rise but that was because the initial story was literally not finished i don't know anything about game development but i am very sure it's not just as black and white as you make it out to be just because there is day 1 story dlc (if it is actually available and not just announced) doesn't mean that it was cut on purpose as we can't see behind the scenes into the development they may have run out of their main budget for the game but still had something that needed to be added but now they had to use extra funds that they need to make back to actually gain profit from it like it's really not difficult to understand that not every decision you don't like was made out of malice or pure greed

[@alenezi989a3]

@@DeiManThe1 ok I know this is a month old but seriously what you said so false that I had to reply, first of all the handler is an npc and npc that hates it doesn't matter because you don't play as the handler you play as the hunter, and the hunter which is the character you play het tons and I mean tons of customs and layered armor and weapons which is what is important, you cannot compare stickers and emotes which also get alot of them for free from the seasonal events that have zero effect on gameplay to actual demons being locked behind a paywall which is equivalent to monsters being locked behind paywall also something that never and I repeat never happened in a monster hunter game, the monsters that you say are old monsters and variants maybe you don't care but every single fan gets extremely excited for not because provide a new challenge but they almost always bring in new armors new weapons new skills new layered armors and new mechanics, plus these monster even if old are beloved by the fans and also they are brought back in the new engine basically they are built from the ground up, that requires tons of work for zero extra payments "ZERO" the Monster Hunter Devs are the most custmer friendly in the entire industry man you can't say just they sell freaking stickers that they are the same as greedy Atlus that lockes previously accessible demons behind DLC and cuts parts of the actual story behind day 1 dlc which which means it was already made and is part of the game but they decided hey we can charge extra for this part and our gullible customers will gladly pay for it, there just no comparison, one game you pay fully and never pay cent later and you get support for a full year of new content, while the other tries to steal extra money of you day 1 like just paid full price and they already are telling you hey pay us extra to get the real full game and the extra is the price of the full game you just paid for.

[@destebangm11216]

I am glad that my country has regional prices on steam, so the complete edition is 60 dollars for me and the base game is 40.... but man I really feel bad for all the people that have to pay those crazy amounts of money.... ATLUS is doing exactly the same thing as activision some years back with CoD, they started with map packs, then skins then lootboxes and then selling red dot reticles for 5 dollars...... man I really wish people get mad and don't buy the DLCs at those prices it will only get worse and worse :/ And apart from that the PC version has Denuvo again????? Like why man, this is so annoying why the consumer that pays the game has an inferior version than the one who pirates it 2 days after the release.... idk man Atlus is annoying a lot of times...

[@YasEmisDaBus]

I have regional pricing too (in Australia), but going the wrong way. $70 base game, $102 complete edition, $115 if bought seperately (in AUD prices are $100, $145 and $160 respectively)

[@tuannguyenthai1697]

I live in a third-world country, and the regional prices for the Steam edition are ridiculous. We have to pay nearly the exact same price as the US, which is 57 dollars for the base game, 68 dollars for Digital Deluxe, and 85 dollars for Digital Premium. Not only that, but the prices of other Atlus games on Steam are also ridiculous. Sometimes they are even more expensive than in the US. They don't seem to care about the regional pricing at all.

[@Gato-be2jr]

dude me too lol

[@rasya_hooman5359]

I live in asian country but we didnt get regional pricing so we have to pay 100 dollar for the fcking full game (steam unlock it is then, i wont support a company that make game 60 dollar but still have dlc) like look at yakuza 0 and kiwami 1&2 the game is 20 dollar each and if its on discount you can buy three of them for 30 dollar (soul hacker 2 premium edition is actually 85 dollar in my country BUT its still really bad)

[@---oq5kb]

Sega used to do regional pricing in turkey but stopped after a while. What I am saying is the cost of this game is 25% of what the majority can earn in a single month

[@yaboismashing5066]

I would say smtV was just as bad. It's a bunch of fucking side quests that could have been in there and one includes A SECRET BOSS FIGHT AGAINST THE DEMI-FIEND

[@samwoodley1653]

As long as sales happen and they can easily push units, companies (in general) will be as pro-profit and anti-consumer as they can get away with. The same thing is happening with The Pokemon Company and GameFreak, shitting out the most barebones low effort entries because people. still. buy. them. anyway. The second they start actually seeing a decline in sales because people are getting wise to this shit, they'll actually ease off on the day 1 dlc bullshit. But right now, the games industry has conditioned the players into expecting and tolerating day 1 dlc, and being ok with chunks of a game being cut off before launch to be sold separately at a marked up price. That's just how things are now.

[@renren47618]

Unfortunately that's true

[@CherriRaquel]

As soon as you mentioned the P5A english release I was like "This is an Aniplex release, isn't it?" And YUP. So not an Atlus tax on that, that's just how Aniplex of America charges their releases. The Fate ones have similar pricing. Basically they charge the same amount as the Japanese home release. But yes, still ridiclous.

[@ThomasArch]

I buy blurays and i hate aniplex and i cant get the same shows from the uk cuz there encoding is worse then the us version 90% of the time so im just stuck. Only exception i can think of was s01 of durarara cuz the uk version was the same as the aniplex version

[@sonictennyson2201]

Going from P4AU not having Day One DLC to this having Day One DLC is like getting sober and a few days later doing Jagerbombs.

[@heehoostockdude2338]

Atlus: so yeah, we are locking masakado and Mara in paid dlc so we ca- Me: **opens utorrent**

[@yoimati]

In japan we have age restriction system on games named CERO. Basically Mara is classified into over 18, and other part of Soul Hackers is for CERO 16. I don't know why they put Masakado-kou classified the same category as Mara. But there is one thing, Masakado-kou has been protecting Tokyo for several hundred years, also he is a kind of a god of retribution. When ATLUS have Masakado in their game, they go to Shinto shrine and have Shinto priest to calm Masakado-kou's spirt, a ceremony every time. I suppose the reason might have come from the fact above...

[@ologracz1110]

Exactly bro. Some say it's immoral, and you don't support company bla bla. Company is not a child to be supported. They play dirty, and so will I.

[@yoimati]

@@ologracz1110 I honestly don't care what others think about these things. I just weigh if I want to play something comparing its price and experiences and enthusiasm I would get. It's just a matter between you (me) and ATLUS.

[@dolphinboi-playmonsterranc9668]

@@yoimati Maybe CERO thinks Masakado is perverted?

[@dolphinboi-playmonsterranc9668]

@@ologracz1110 "Atlus is just a small indie dev, they need all the support they can get"

[@Hilly_LittleFeatheryCorner]

I watched this video after today, The day Xbox announced P3P, P4G and P5R. Oh boy, I pray the prices will be decent AND that the PC ports just work well with no bugs >_< But we'll all see when the time comes. Always love your reviews Nyarly! I too love ATLUS' content and if they're doing not-so-good moves such as questionable prices, we have videos like yours bringing us awareness to this.

[@ivanpabon2741]

or you could just get game pass.

[@Khino.978]

It's going to be on gamepass......

[@ivanpabon2741]

@@Khino.978 yes

[@flare9612]

ATLUS: *releases Day 1 DLC* Also ATLUS: "Why are we having more pirated games compared to other titles?"

[@BBWahoo]

For 300$ I expect every single god damn social link+interaction to be animated.

[@ShockStormRPG]

Yes it is a unfortunate thing with more recent games nowadays. As someone who plays both retro and modern games one of the things I like a lot about older retro games is that stuff like costumes were unlockable you got by completing challenges in games. Nowadays I find in some modern games those outfits that used to be unlockable for free in older games they now put behind a DLC paywall that you are forced to pay money in order to obtain.

[@sebastianbarrios7288]

I feel like thats the problem with Atlus, they are always skirting the line of what should be acceptable in order to not get boycotted while at the same time having everyone angry at them, but we will still buy the game, and a good chunk of people in that grouo will buy the dlc, so it was worth it in the end to make day 1 dlc that makes them think "how much can we push this practice for the next one?"

[@matteste]

Yea, it all started with Horse Armor and look where we are now.

[@EldenRingBuildsArchive]

Thing is, Atlus doesn’t lose anything by adding these types of DLCs, if you buy the game full price (or the CE) but then don’t buy the DLCs, they don’t lose any amount of money from this decision, enabling them to do as they please.

[@AwsmNix]

The settings in SMTV let you turn on or off the Mitamas so idk what you mean by you can’t tell if it’s spawning from the dlc or not. You not only CAN tell but you CAN control it as well

[@xyoung8687]

FYI, you can toggle the SMTV DLC Mitama spawns in the menu. Play most of the game with them off and turn them on when you want to grind.

[@ReaverSTHLM]

"Anti-consumer practices" isn't a real thing. Nobody in their right mind would make messing with consumers the point of any business enterprise. Also, there's no end to the scope of the claim that something "should have been in the game from the beginning". Says who? The end user, sadly, is not a reliable arbiter of this, because the end user wants as much stuff for as little money as possible. The end user has an even more warped understanding of what fair price-to-content ratio would be than the publisher does. Most games cost as much as they used to 30 years ago, yet their development costs have multiplied many times over, and the publishers have had to swallow most of that cost. Wondering why so many games are so samey these days? Because the margins are so thin that it forces a race to the bottom. Does the consumer see their own role in any of this? Nah. They complain on forums instead (while their purchasing decisions often directly contradict their statements). Atlus is already taking a massive risk with something like Soul Hackers 2. It _could_ be making nothing but Persona spinoffs if they wanted to play it safe, but it's not. It's making a risky sequel to a not exactly market-shattering original game that very few people even even remember. Their sales projections must be such that the DLC is there not because of "greed", but to try to raise the average amount of money they get from the people who buy the game. And the number of people might end up being quite low, if they are unlucky. But they will most likely be the kind of hardcore fans who will nevertheless buy the DLC. That's the consumer profile they feel matches Soul Hackers 2. Probably pretty close to the consumer profile they expected would go for the Nocturne Remaster. They've got pretty solid models by now based on past performance of their games and DLCs, and I'm not privy to their specific data. But the basics is as follows: the less a game is likely to sell, the more money you want to make per sale to justify the cost of developing and marketing it. The trick is then to identify the "pain point" of the consumer; where does the game and its DLCs become so expensive that it all becomes counterproductive - your net revenue actually ends up lower than if you would've had a mass-market price point. TL;DR: Atlus has data that suggests that: - Making Game X cheaper will not move the needle on copies sold through enough to justify doing it. And if it does, you can always put it on sale later. Indeed, publishers all know that there is a subset of gamers who actively WAIT for sales (like Nyarly suggests doing in this video). Trust me, it's accounted for. - Adding in all the DLC for free will not move the needle on copies sold through enough to justify doing it. They will make more money off the people who DO buy the DLC than the people who decide against buying the game altogether because of the DLCs existence. - Videos like this and other social media backlash won't move the needle enough not to execute on their plan. Oh, by the way - is it pro or anti-consumer to put the game on so many platforms? Surprise - it's neither. It's just pro-business. They can't afford to risk not doing it. Finally, I would absolutely _love_ to see how people talking about "anti-consumer practices" would behave if they were made head of sales and marketing at Atlus. With their own house as collateral.

[@旭球]

I'm glad you went into this. The lack of recognition by the fanbase is delusional. I keep checking back to this comment section to see if people will properly speak up, but it's largely just full of people parroting the "anti-consumer" angle or making false promises of boycotts. There is zero incentive for Atlus not to do this, so they do it. In fact, as you mentioned, the opposite is true, and they are highly incentivized to follow this exact practice. I was stunned that Soul Hackers was getting any sort of sequel, and that's what the fanbase should be interested in instead of manufacturing reasons to get mad at the people who are making the games they enjoy. The value proposition on the consumer end is also quite simple: if you enjoy the game enough, then the DLC will likely be worth the extra cash to you, whereas if you don't, it is strictly optional; if the game doesn't seem interesting to you at all, then don't buy it in the first place. Really, the dumbest thing someone can do, purely from a cost-benefit perspective, is pre-order the game at all while having doubts about its quality. Doubly so if we are talking about limited editions.

[@DusKnight7th]

Although most of your points are solid, there is no reason to deny existance of "anti-consumer" practices, as reputation matters in regards to business. For example, world wide release. Whilst they could release first in Japan and rest of asian continent and later to the West, as they did until recently, Atlus chose to take additional risks (as reducing income received beforehand) in order to leverage rapour with western community. Is this "pro-business"? Yes, as long as there is leverage. "Pro-consumer"? Also yes. As per story content DLC, it is "anti-consumer" as the fact that Soul Hackers 2 main feature, alongside gameplay, is its story, as trailers and promotional content evidentiate. And might debatebly be "anti-business" given: 1. They already have other ways of maximizing gains per customer, which you already brought how, without major sacrifices; 2. Reputation, although not a resource, supports business through customer relations, after all, no one wishes to be badly treated (unless the product/service is about bad treatment). Customer retention is as important as reaching new ones, even so when given product's sales are based on a niche, smaller community. Is it [Day One Story DLC] "pro-business"? Short term wise, yes. Long term? No. "Anti-consumer"? Yes. Edit: I appreciate your information into the business side of affairs. It enriches the conversation and helps better understanding of what is and isn't feasible. Customers are good at feeling the product or service, however our takes are usually blindsided by lack of undestanding.

[@ReaverSTHLM]

​@@DusKnight7th My point is more that the term "anti-consumer" doesn't necessarily add a lot of data to the analysis. You could, if you were so inclined, cast any pro-business activity as anti-consumer, or anything that isn't explicitly "giving away free stuff that COULD have made you money, just to be nice to people" as "anti-consumer". Of course, doing so just outs the entitlement behind the term; anything short of leaving money on the table could be cast as "anti-consumer". Your examples basically amount to (and I don't mean to make a caricature out of them, or to be hostile) "not pro-consumer" = "anti-consumer". So it goes with "greed" vs. "risk mitigation", and it's an analysis often done after the fact. The problem is that the companies have to decide on their strategies in advance - usually before even greenlighting the project. What looks like a greedy cash-grab when done for a successful game might be just enough to avoid having to fire people if a game ends up performing worse than expected. You're correct in stating that reputation matters (and I didn't say otherwise), and that's one of the things that have to be (and are) factored into the risk analysis. That being said, it ultimately - necessarily - needs to be quantified and mapped to the cold-hard-cash P&L analysis of the project (as well as that of the rest of your portfolio over time). Your own analysis suggests that you understand this. But let's also understand that whatever analysis you or I can engage in, for all of our respective theoretical knowledge, is infinitely worse-informed than Atlus'. Because they have infinitely more data than we do, gathered and mapped over a much longer period of time than anything we could google. Their institutional memory probably still remembers how Digital Devil Saga, just to name an example, had to be carried by the rest of their portfolio at the time, and those kinds of situations can make the company's strategy pivot for 10, 20 or more years to come. In this industry, we can easily be 1 or 2 bombs away from having to sell massive chunks of the company to, say, Tencent or Microsoft. For better or worse. Anyway, I've gone on too long. I guess that for me to accept "anti-consumer" as a useful term, I'd have to see the difference between that and "pro-business" articulated in a way that always applies - not just incidentally or as part of a retroactive analysis of a given case. Additionally, I'd like to see some proof that being "anti-consumer" is what motivated the activity or initiative in question. Having worked at a good 10 or so publishers and/or devs in my life, I have never - not once - bumped into any mindset remotely like this at any level of the organization. I have, however, seen a bunch of dev teams begging the higher-ups to let them take a massive risk with everyone's jobs on the line, because they wanted to make games that they themselves wanted to play. And they get the green light - from the "evil suits" - more often than you might think. Personally, I _love_ the opportunity to throw more money at a game that the devs knew was a big risk and didn't have mass market appeal. Same reason that I love having the possibility of buying enthusiast electronics and cars that do more than take me from point A to point B. But to each their own I guess.

[@ReaverSTHLM]

@@旭球 Hear here. I'm considering muting the thread actually, I've sort of made a promise with myself not to argue with obstinate people on the internet. And boy do they seem to be in the majority. kzbin.info/www/bejne/jXnHpZeQocajmK8

[@DusKnight7th]

​@@ReaverSTHLM Your comments have been enlightening and well writen, which I particularly appreciate. I concede that "anti-consumer" might be a "well-meaning yet deceptive" term. Perhaps "non consumer-friendly" would be an improvement? As a side note, I also value the opportunity to support financially developers who make products I enjoy, from games to eletronics, specially when their [producers, developers, etecetera] attitude and actions move towards good principles, such as accesibility*¹, better pricing*¹ and being repairability friendly*¹, just to name a few. As a matter of fact, I bought Soul Hackers 2's Physical Collector's Edition when I found out they were hesitant to do so in the West. *¹: when possible I send you my regards, friend. May you be fortunate on your endeavors!

[@madeirabs]

Man, im from Brazil and to buy the game+dlc It costs about 500 reais.This shit is half of the minimum wage here. Its hard to even buy the Full game at launch due to the price.Unfortonely i have to wait at least a year when the game goes to sale. If its hard for yall in the USA imagine us at third world countries.

[@slowpokeofdoom]

I bought p5s months arfter launch when I found it for 50% off but the bundle with DLC had a greater discount makeing it cheaper for me to buy the digital deluxe edition then the base game

[@S_Hyde]

Was planning on getting this day 1, but I'm starting to lean towards waiting for a heavy discount

[@FaeroN]

We don't have enough people like you in the gaming community in general. Thank you so much for speaking up and sharing this.

[@dolphinboi-playmonsterranc9668]

The fans have a buying problem Just stop buying the DLC and spit on those who do.

[@NegativeNanase]

500%

[@SleepyDonnnn]

But how will some get their day 1 waifu looking amazing think of the lonely fanboys😥😥😥😥😥

[@donvid8969]

"There's no way to tell whether the Mitamas are spawning because of the DLC or not in SMT V! They make the game worse because they make it easier!" ...Mate, you know you can turn them off once you get the DLC, right? Literally a switch in the options menu. It was my first SMT game and the extra EXP helped tremendously, if anything it provides a boost for newcomers who aren't used to the usual grind of SMT.

[@RinaShinomiyaVal]

Outside of early game , there isnt any grinding needed for SMT. V unfortunately had level scaling matter too much which is and oddity for the series and Area 4s major level jump didnt help.

[@donvid8969]

@@RinaShinomiyaVal Shit, really? My bad then--but still, the Mitamas are totally optional, and I don't think anything that is able to be turned on and off at the flick of a button should be hailed as something actively making the game worse

[@RinaShinomiyaVal]

@@donvid8969 agree.

[@Eric-xy4uy]

I am happy that you did this in Nyarly fashion, I'm happy that someone has made this known that day 1 dlc is stupid and lazy

[@shaynecarter-murray3127]

I get what you're saying and I would like to agree, though I wonder how much of it is tied to the necessity of keeping base game prices in the $40-$60 range, even though at $60/copy doesn't really usually cover the cost of production (at least for US based studios, I really have no idea about how the Japanese economy works and what game devs are paid and etc)

[@treywalker4118]

And Companies wonder why piracy is a thing.

[@AkageVT]

pain.

[@FlynnTheRedhead]

5:57 I feel like a LOT of people know the anime, especially since the english dub was announced/released

[@twewymuncher]

it's actually even worse in Australia. We have to pay $160 for the game ($100) and the DLC ($60). It's bad enough we're being charged $20 more than what it's supposed to be (60 USD is 80 AUD, 70 USD is 100 AUD) and the fact they dare want us to pay $60 for DLC that has no excuse not being in the game already is outrageous. I eventually caved and bought the SMT V DLC because that was $40, but Atlus are just downright exploiting us, making us pay double the price of a full game just to be able to get all the content. I really hate it.

[@DeiManThe1]

i feel like we sometimes forgett that there are various circumstances behind everything and it's not alway just ''greedy company'' every time i see people complain about the cost of a game or dlc i think it's like complaing that the art piece you comissioned is too expensive you would't go to an artist and say ''oh i don't think the supplies you spend and the time you needed to work on it are worth the money you want for it'' but for some reason it's okay to do that with games we see a price tag on a game and think that the work all those people put into creating it isn't worth those 60-70 bucks same goes for dlc since dlc isn't necessery but they still made it as an extra that (most likely) isn't inclued in the budget for the base game (and if it is i am guessing they got told how much to spend on base game and how much on dlc) we forgett that all those people need to get payed in a way so that they can afford a living and i know that there are always some experts that say ''oh this and that is actually super simple and really not hard or expensive to make'' but what if they just didn't do it in that easy and cost efficient way? what if they used a method that's harder and costs more money? should they not be compensated for that?

[@haveagoodday7021]

Small indie company needs to charge an extra $45 for their small indie game 😐

[@UAshton5090]

Evidence of Atlus' dlc practice started with Etrian Odyssey for me. I think it was 4 or the remake of 2, but some of the classes were locked behind paywalls. Don't remember them being too expensive, but my grip has always been, if it was ready to go at launch, then why charge me extra for it? If people want dlc to make the game easier then that's fine, cause I don't have to buy that, but when you lock content pertinent to the story or the gameplay experience behind additional charges and it was ready to go day one, that is NOT acceptable.

[@morkmeatshield5373]

You know why Altus keeps doing this overpriced DLC crap? People buy it. That's why. They have no reason to stop if people buy it nonetheless.

[@Kaze91]

This might be time to talk about Dx2, the smt mobile game. It was basically a gacha with full hd 3d models and stuff to hold fans over till Smt V. This is one of those gachas that got more p2w over time and not less, and the rates for banner demons are insanely low. You basically need to pity which a pity is hundreds of dollars for one demon. Atlus slowly over time has become more dlc happy which doesnt make sense because they are making money more than ever anyway.

[@dal4268]

even pity rolls cant help u. i tried goin for herokado and the game keeps screwing me over even on guaranteed anniversary parchment

[@Fender178]

Yeah once I heard that P5 Animation got an English dub and it cost that much I signed up for a Premium Funimation streaming service account which had exclusive rights to the English dub at the time because it was cheaper per year than purchasing the stupid Blu-ray copy and ended up recording the episodes myself because there was no way in hell I was paying $300 bucks for that. Yeah it is ridiculous that you have to pony up $40 bucks on top of the price of the game for more Story content.

[@Autumnfurry2099]

Bro the dlc has a skin(?) for the legend Jack Frost

[@strippinheat]

Soul Hackers 2 also has some DLC that is exclusive to the most expensive super ultra ultimate deluxe digital version. DLC that doesn't come with the $200 limited physical version, so if you want that limited edition and all the DLC, you need to buy the most expensive version of the game TWICE.

[@jarnegi]

It hurts when a company I used to love goes to the "wait and see" pile when it comes to its games, but I ain't throwing extra money for the whole experience. I'll wait for a sale

[@RoyalHustler09]

Funny enough I got an ad for Soul Hackers 2 before this vid.

[@lioncactus1906]

For 300 dollars you can watch a letsplay on youtube and have 300 dollars to wave in your face if its hot in the summer.

[@DeepWeeb]

Imagine the reason why ATLUS keeps pushing garbage day-1 DLC it's because not enough people take their time filling their surveys and rush to the "do you wish to see ports" section... 😔

[@theninjararar]

anime blurays are always crazy though especially with limited titles

[@98sucoo]

Nyarly showing the ScreenShots and Mara appears censored in the pic hahaha lol.

[@modirufa6317]

I'm kind of the opposite opinion when it comes to day 1 story DLC, as I believe they can be done well (but the ones from Atlus very much aren't). Since the SMT4 DLC fiasco, I kept hoping they would of at least learned something from it, but every once in a while I keep getting proven wrong. I've stopped buying DLC starting from SMT4 apocalypse, not just as boycott, but because they're so utterly worthless (not to mention embarassing compared to almost every other franchises).

[@thefool8224]

you believe they can be done well, even though you couldnt point a single example?

[@ParrotMan01276]

No one holds Atlus (Or Sega that much) accountable, therefore they keep doing this. Games that are glorified remasters have ridiculous DLC that should frankly be features included in the game as it is. Then there's games like this which are new and have absurd levels of monetization and DLC and not enough people call them on it. It's greedy, it stupid, and whales need to stop falling for it.

[@the-point-bearer6689]

Better yet, call them out for the ridiculous practice and critique them to pack it in at least.

[@supaipai420]

I spent $96 I believe on the Digital Collectors Edition with all the DLC on my PS5, because I think it's cheaper to do that then buy the base game and pay more for the DLC. I do plan on getting a sealed copy of the game for my SMT collection.

[@MarkATorres1989]

Just came here after rewatching the "Atlus had a DLC Problem" you made roughly two years ago. Makes me wonder why a franchise I enjoyed so much during my Playstation 2 days had changed so much and... so crummy in my perspective. I am sadden to have left it mostly behind, but hearing news about it would usually make me smile and frown afterwards.

[@matteste]

And what makes this DLC and price even more galling is that Soul Hackers 2 is very obviously a lower budget title and yet it costs as much as a AAA release with the DLC on top of that. Though that Persona 4 release was kinda bungled given that it was a pretty lazy port and game with annoying DRM.

[@pimpinken8901]

I’m just so conflicted , either we completely support our favorite franchises from one of my favorite game producers and simultaneously sanctioning the raping of there fans financially or boycott their DLC and Games which will ensure them stop producing these titles insuring the company will stop producing these titles and worst case the entire company goes under🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

[@lor8262]

The Xenoblade 3 special edition pre order not loading and the soul hackers 2 special edition being 200$ really ruined my plans of buying thier special editions.

[@wardrobewings8000]

Eh, I have no issues with devs locking costumes behind a paywall. It's a kind of win-win situation. Devs/publisher get more money and fans who want to waste their money get fan-service cosmetics. It's situations where important features end up as paid DLC that piss me off. Like quests that are important to understand plot like for example Clipped Wings. Or demons in SH2 DLC. I have another issue with Atlus and many, MANY other Japanese devs publishing games in western countries: their absolute lack of understanding of how to price games. Nocturne- a port of a game published in the mid-2000s- on Steam in my region costs 229 PLN (without any discounts). Before inflation hit us hard I could FEED myself for a month (as long as I didn't dine out) for that money. Heck, it's a third of my monthly rent. In comparison until recently (yet again thanks to inflation and recession) Witcher 3 was sold for 90 PLN. And Witcher 3 unlike Atlus games often goes on sales- I got it for around a third of the normal price. It's not the cost of translating- Japanese games are almost never translated into polish. It's not fair price for some mega-polished product- Atlus ports to PC are notoriously buggy in my experience. It's just blind greed of Japanese publishers.

[@Ziegrif]

Skins and BGMs? Worthless. More story and demons? Unacceptable to be day one DLC.

[@augursword2299]

This DLC announcement was enough to make me consider not buying SH2, I was already shaky with it, but this was enough to really make me decide to not get it.

[@chisaten]

These days I prefer to wait at least a year before buying a game. The thing which did it for me is I preordered Dragon Quest XI for the preorder bonuses, but then three months after release it was discounted by 25% and included those bonuses. Along with that is how the edition with extra content was released as well.

[@leafmanwithafryinpan]

People bought the useless DLC crap, not just because of the DLC crap, but because they wanted to support the developers because they enjoyed the games. Now ATLUS is taking advantage of that in full force and it's disgusting and disrespectful to consumers. 90% of what they make isn't even games anymore. 99% of their 25th Anniversary announcements were new shirts, stickers, cups, and e-boy maid cafes. When it came to announcing another game during the Anniversary, it was just a bunch of ports of the arcade fighting game that wasn't even really developed by them in the first place. When it came to releasing a Persona game on Switch, it was a warriors style game not really even developed by them. When it came to releasing a SMT port to PC or Switch, they milked every dollar they could and made it run like crap on Switch. When it came to releasing a new SMT game, it took them half a decade after announcing it to release it because they wanted to focus on releasing High School Musical and Persona 5 part 2, the animation, the animation part 2, the animation the manga, and then finally the animation the manga the animation. The only good thing that's come out of ATLUS in recent years was Persona 4 Golden to PC, and even then, the fact it took them so long was just straight up stupid. And then you have Soul Hackers which they said sold surprisingly well on 3DS, going on to not even release it for Switch. It's like ATLUS is ran by an old guy with dementia who forgets they're running a video game company and prices crap and DLC as if they're price gouging IRL life-or-death necessities. Most of what they do seems like they're pulling ideas out of 4 hates like "Okay... A Persona 3 port... The og, so not even FES or Portable... Ported to iPhone... in 7 years" I bet they even wonder why they had to have SEGA buy them. They're absolutely delusional, financially predatory, and out-of-touch.

[@martinde-serres8724]

One of the worst offenders by ATLUS was with Persona 5 Royal and how they flipped the bird to those who bought the vanilla P5 game by NOT adding the new content as either a free Upgrade Pack or even as a paid Upgrade Pack. They cited that P5R was more than just an updated re-release... on the SAME CONSOLE the original version came out mind you (on PS4 to be specific). Basically, they pretty much asked the early adaptors to fork over another 60-ish dollars, depending on one's region of course, instead of giving it away for free or in a discounted DLC bundle. 120-ish dollars over the course of a few years between both versions' releases JUST to get the ''complete'' P5 experience... yeah that's bullshit! So much bullshit I went against double dipping and just look at the new content on KZbin instead... and even then, the new content isn't that worth double dipping tbh. P5 wasn't that amazing as people circle jerk over when it came out and the Royal upgrade isn't making things any better. The last great Persona game IMO is the P2 duology, with P3 edging a little below. Starting with P4, the series went into a complete tonal shift from not only the original games, but from SMT in general. That's not a good sign when your series started great and went down the shitter the second they change the overall tone of the series just to goose up on sales.

[@the-point-bearer6689]

@@martinde-serres8724 They should ever reconsider with the practices here and there.

[@Zel_Hachigo]

@@martinde-serres8724 Yea, "new content" as in what actually made it into Royal and wasn't cut out for no bloody reason.

[@electricgigolo]

There's also no upgrade path for the current gen release of Persona 5 Royal. The PS4 release is already 4k on PS5. We'll have to buy it again just for an unlocked framerate to 60fps and maybe some dual sense stuff. I love Atlus, but I hate their business model.

[@mintcey]

I was ready to fork out the cash for the collectors edition too. But $200 was way beyond reasonable. The stuff in the collectors edition is almost comparable to that of Persona Q 2's collectors edition which was only $80. I love the games Atlus produces but some of their decisions when it comes to certain forms of content really bum me out. I really wanted that steel book too.

[@kindasomeviews]

First they overprice Cockturne HD, cuck us from any new game announcements, now they're locking a piece of the story behind DLC? Did Joker steal their profits or something? Makes me wanna go back to when P4A first released cuz there's little payoff in sight these days. Can only hope this game can hold as at least a 4/5 with B's going on

[@chevgage6210]

You should never buy Atlus games day one. They go on sale a year later like clock work. I'm surprised you're not talking about the other type of dlc they do, like with P5. Instead of the dlc they released the base game for a planned period of time and then re release a version of the game that contains what would have been DLC AGAIN for full price in royal. On top of that? There's STILL additional DLC. It's far worse. At the end of the day though we vote with our wallets and they'd stop if we stopped being willing to pay for it.

[@totaldestruction152]

At this point I think I'm going to stop trying to get my friends into MegaTen. It's getting fucking embarrassing to admit that I like these games.

[@lordbacon4972]

I went to the soul hackers 2 website it only has digital version for pre-order. How can i pre-order the physical collector's edition?

[@Lu15d4]

"Imagine what if you had to pay for Dante in nocturne or for Demi fiend in digital devil saga?" Good times

[@V-Jes]

I mean, if you were Japanese in early 2000s you pretty much had to pay for Dante considering the version with Dante is the 2nd version of Nocturne, not the first OG release...

[@CASSIO_AF]

Here on brazil smt 3 is 249,00 , deluxe 349,00 on steam and sou hackers will be 299,00, deluxe 349,00 and premium 449,95 I think its absurd a old game be the same price as a new game, leaving a side the high price of both

[@DengueBurger]

They want to avoid bankruptcy like they experienced in the past. I wish it was just cosmetic dlc tho, not lore hidden behind a paywall

[@cheesemanzombie9151]

Atlus are more known for this than their games

[@jokermorningstar5816]

not to mention up until P5R every smt game I bought in germany did´t even have german text, yeah I had to play them on english text, wich is no problem for me but a lot of people missed out on P5 until we had german text on P5R

[@Sad-Lesbian]

This is 100% the executives, and they will not listen because they do not give a fuck about you and your feelings. As long as they make money, they're happy.

[@LakituAl]

Mara as DLC. Truly a terrible fate.

[@MuddyTimms]

This timeline is disappointing

[@cbpzombie5462]

I mean, it’s not like atlus wasn’t already doing this by rereleasing every single one of their more modern games full price for what is basically dlc (golden, FES, Royale)

[@secretbunnyninja]

Ooph, as much as I hate Day 1 DLC, I pretty much exclusively play older games I have fond memories for on Emulators because I can usually speed them up, and get my nostalgia as a busy working adult in a timely manner. As someone who is getting older, when multiple good games all get dumped in my lap too fast for me to play, sometimes I use these booster type packs to save my time. Guess I am not hardcore anymore lol. But yeah I would much prefer an easy mode as part of the base game that I don't have to pay extra for.

[@rzaku5536]

I bet P5R on XBOX and PC will have those ridiculous DLC too

[@dominicmallano5633]

IMO modern games probably should cost more than $60. But they want to advertise their games as full experiences and they want to gain a following so their franchise can make money off reputation alone. Millions of people want to play Starfield and I’m not sure if there’s gameplay showed yet. People literally claimed to take off work for a week when Starfield came out when there’s little to know gameplay. The game companies also know they are going to lose a lot of sales if they charge more than $60. They do this “predatory” dlc to lower the initial cost so more people play their games resulting in more people getting excited for games like Cyberpunk and Starfield before they know what the game is.

[@RustoKomuska]

When they pull shit like this is when you pull out the backup plan As in piracy If they add denuvo you'll have to wait until it's cracked but that's more reason to do it

[@johnmarkther2218]

I'll be sailing the high seas brothers, this is ridiculous

[@nado1908]

I still have no idea why this is so different from the first Soul Hackers.

[@becausesakamoto5938]

Meanwhile look at Xenoblade 2's DLC which included several new Blades along with their unique Blade quests, some of which were characters from the previous Xenoblade games as a great callback, challenge battles which will let you unlock the new cosmetic options, piles of new items to make certain grinding less egregious, and a WHOLE ASS 20 hour prequel game with improved content and a ton of its own quests for players to experience, all for $30. I can't imagine the Soul Hackers 2 DLC story will be anywhere near as meaty as Torna: The Golden Country.

[@beardizz]

Without the discount I got the persona 5 animation price right

[@fumomofumosarum5893]

that's highway robbery....

[@kingjamesbond4009]

The only DLC I beginning is the one with masakado sense that is the design from smt3 Nocturne

[@Amoreline11]

Costumes as DLC. Whatever. Demons as DLC. I can get over. Locking story behind expensive DLC I cannot.

[@edwardrawn8157]

The cost of video games has been static for about a decade while the price of a coffee has doubled. I don't mind paying for "deluxe" editions to offset costs. Listen, if you care enough about this game to care about a bonus quest, then pay the $10. The sustained outrage is a bit much.

[@Djstudiosgold]

Atlus/aniplex: Why do people pirate our things? Also Atlus/aniplex: 6:31

[@sepphero9639]

Not defending just noting, the p5 anime isn't actually that expensive compared to other anime blue ray releases but it looks that way because it sells all episodes in one box other than for example ( based on memory from some years back) Some animes which sold 3 episodes for 60€ (can't tell which anime it was, would have said Noragami but that is a lot cheaper by now) still 300 definitely isn't cheap

[@davidyaconis7002]

So, like, are they offering the Battle Panties?

[@SIR_Wrek]

they just said that persona 5 and persona 5 royal is getting a pc release now too

[@morbidgull8922]

You might say 50 dollars is to cheap for a remake I would like to point out that the older persona/SMT games often sell for hundreds of dollars. I bought P1 for like 200 last year and it’s already gone up in price, 50 dollars is dirt cheap IMO compared the OG releases.

[@georgesturua5394]

Isn't it the publishers fault that the game has expensive day 1 dlc? Do the devs have anything to do with it?

[@MrIronWar]

Its always good to wait for a discount for a complete package. Steam sales and all that jazz or they will pull for something under the rug like the royal and golden editions of persona and re-release a complete package with even more dlc and added stuff. Love their games but hate their business practice. Ya gotta hit them in their wallets and no leaving negative steam reviews wont help either.

[@kadosho02]

I learned a lesson with both Persona 5, and Catherine Full Body. Dlc is just getting out of hand. Being able to unlock things, it just sucks that is all taken away because of their business practices. If there was ever a game, a modern title that did not screw the audiences wallet. Then I would be interested. But no, I'm not buying an Atlus game ever again. Sure its great to see Soul Hackers return. But the audience deserves better. By not being ripped off Also the price of the P5 anime. Wtf. I remember reading about that on ANN. No. Just no.

[@caelum1156]

And people think Atlus won't consider doing NFTs in the future

[@josilina2987]

I just got an ad for this game before this video

[@abedramirez5059]

In Mexico the price of the premium deluxe (which it haves all DLC) in the Xbox and Steam store is ≈50 dollars because the price tag is regionalized, gladful to live in a third world country, at least Sega acknowledges we're fucked

[@turdperson4463]

I feel like the main problem is the pricing ngl, if the dlc was like £5 and contained stuff like the costumes and music and grinding spots, it would be better. But that whole extra story: ‘the lost numbers’ thing being a dlc is bullshit. Like, why not have it in the base game? Idk if it would be ‘story content’ per say, since it’s a bonus story, but how come Atlus back during record breaker gave the go ahead for an entirely extra story in it which wasn’t dlc? Granted that was a remaster/remake (idk the correct terminology), but soul hackers 2 is practically a soft reboot of the series. It’s not even like they couldn’t have made the Triangulum (or whatever it’s called) arc dlc since it was on the 3ds, which they’ve shown they were happy to make dlc for with IV and IVA. So why can’t they just have lost numbers in base soul hackers 2? Oh yeah, cuz so when they try to re-release it (if they ever do that) they can shill the fact that all the dlc is free.

[@AssHandler]

People thought microtransactions and DLC were the worst with western companies. They didn't believe me when I told them how bad it could really get, and how much further there is to fall. Soon they will know the horrors of the Japanse market.

[@thatifalover]

Idk the most frustrating part of all of this is how both the games and the overpriced dlc are mostly just reused assets. SMTV, Royal, Strikers, and soul hackers 2 are all using the same models and animations for the demons. They redo the effects to make them look new but that's all. And looking at how easy it is to actually insert stuff like legacy demons or legacy bgm makes the price even more insulting. Stuff like bgm probably takes 5 minutes. Let's not forget that all editions of P3 and P4 use the same engine, models and a lot of effects. This has been going on for so long that I don't think people even notice it anymore.