After Using Unity For 10 Years, I Have Some Thoughts

[@thomasbrush]

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[@TegridyMadeGames]

Told you so

[@MbantohBrayansplane-hz1jj]

Thanks Thomas, even if other things turn us down, you always have our bags.

[@MbantohBrayansplane-hz1jj]

Thanks Thomas, even if other things turn us down, you always have our bags.😊

[@seeing-j7w]

yes you´re right, although one technical thing is Unity as engine (good product) and another as a company in the administrative and management sense (nothing good); and other issues different from the price of the installs and thresholds which have not been well-known at all in the last days: 1) “mandatory” to be connected to internet to work on Unity editor (independently that one is online most of the time). 2) unity plus is eliminated and most of the (indie) game developers pay that subscription due to getting rid of the splash unity screen, Unity (indirectly) obligates indie game developers to buy Unity pro paying $399 (which It´s ok) to not less than $2000. 3) one specific indie developer with one license or seat might pay fees for unity installation by each computer that she/he can own for example a desktop AND one laptop.

[@wardogdauwdd3020]

If I'm being honest I'm just going to go through the road I have been going and just going to be making Gameboy games with gb studio so i can bring new games to old consoles if i could i try to make psychical games for PS1 or PS2 if I could figure out how to do it but haven't found out how I could do that so I'll stick with Gameboy and nes for now

[@freelancepakistangames7245]

I've been a Unity developer for over 5 years. I love the software. I'm a programmer by heart so something about the software just clicks with me. However, after the stunt Unity just pulled off I'm starting to realize that it's better to be a Jack of many trades than just sticking to one. I'm learning Unreal Engine now. Let's see what the future holds.

[@EnderElohim]

You just need to adjust and chance you don't need to be jack of many trades and master of none

[@jimmy_p]

Funny enough, the actual full saying is, "A jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one." So god speed, developer friend!

[@deuswulf6193]

You have probably heard this already, but also consider being a contributor to Godot as well. If there is one thing that will keep the big boy engines in check, its knowing that there are solid alternatives in the FOSS space. It helps keep them honest.

[@MbantohBrayansplane-hz1jj]

I have to admit, I was still starting the journey of learning unity. So I guess I Will Just learn unreal

[@freelancepakistangames7245]

@@MbantohBrayansplane-hz1jj All the best 🙌

[@thomasbrush]

Remember guys! Don't panic. Learn to enjoy the process. The game industry is always changing, and that's the way it goes. Love you all a lot.

[@tivasadivinorum9220]

Can we expect some U5 tutorials in the near future?

[@oddlytimbotwillison6296]

Unity leadership talks about needing to increase revenue, while steadfastly avoiding the most obvious way - by MAKING GAMES! Seriously, not one hit game, and they actually laid off the few game devs they had. They have 7K+ employees, compared to Epic's 4.5K, and Valves 1.2K. They can't make and launch a game with their own engine? How on earth can they understand what game devs need or want?

[@ahmadjames151]

I wonder if you make a copy version of Twist tower inside unreal just level or 1 floor that would be a fun 🙃

[@EBDeveloper]

are you getting paid by Unity to soften the fee thing ? Shameless bud.

[@MichaelOfRohan]

Awww shucks

[@eriksunnyside]

In a way this was a blessing in disguise for anyone getting in to game dev, it's a lot easier to choose your engine now, for many people it's gonna stand between Godot and Unreal, instead of Godot, Unreal and Unity.

[@NuovaStarGaming]

i agree, at this point im fully convinced now that unity is no longer a valid choice anymore for game dev journey, rather godot or unreal engine are

[@Linux_Fan_Boi_76]

To be honest, I think this is good for both Godot and Unreal since they have their own niches in the Market. With Godot being the light weight option. While unreal is the heavier duty option with a beastly feature set.

[@juser-abuser]

Why are you sure that Tim Sweeney will not change his EULA and Pay Fee in the future of the Gayreal Engine?

[@NuovaStarGaming]

@@Linux_Fan_Boi_76 true true

[@cregerbot8217]

@@juser-abuserpossible, but I’m sure they are looking at this closely and probably aren’t going to do something like that anytime soon

[@MikeGemi]

Unreal really is incredible, the blueprints take a sec to get use to and learn but when you get them down its really awesome how much you can do with it

[@EnderElohim]

if only they bring c# to Unreal already

[@halfbakedproductions7887]

The Blueprint system is very convoluted and unintuitive, almost seeming bloated making you do things in what might feel like "the wrong way"... at first. Figure out its quirks and experiment with it, then you'll be laughing. Although I do have a few gripes about Blueprint, I wouldn't say any of them are life-ruining or world-ending. You get used to it or can work around it. But I absolutely cannot get over how much quicker it makes things. What might taken me 2-3 hours in Unity dabbling with C# is more like 15 minutes in Unreal Blueprint, rapid prototyping is an absolute dream.

[@MikeGemi]

@@halfbakedproductions7887 Yah without a doubt, and its for sure not absolutely perfect but when you really get it down its a breeze and easy to organize

[@philipxxxdj]

the already have Csharp do some research man XD@@EnderElohim

[@ZOMBiEmovieHD]

Once the genie is released from the bottle, returning to the previous state becomes impossible. Even if Unity were to reconsider its stance, developers, whether they are large or small, may find it challenging to place their trust in Unity's platform for their livelihoods and futures. The risk of sudden, arbitrary changes is evident, leading many indie developers to announce game deletions or make the switch to the Godot Engine in a bid to protect themselves. It's a situation that seems to be detrimental to Unity in the long run.

[@ViaConDias]

Unfortunately, I do not think you are right. The "Unity is evil and greedy" genie escaped the bottle years ago. This is not the first time they have made sudden changes to the TOS or otherwise made changes to kill off parts of their own community and/or to make more money, and the community just yells for a few weeks and then they go right back to selling their souls to Unity. Unity knows this, and they expect it to happen again this time,,,, and so do I.

[@alexis1451]

This 100%. There is nothing worse when running a business (especially if that business is also your entire livelihood) than uncertainty, and that's what we just got a huge helping of thanks to Unity: a big giant life-time's worth of uncertainty with their product. Even if they back pedal 100%, even if they pinky-promise they will never ever try something like this again... why would anyone believe them? It's not like they hadn't already tried some shit like this back in 2019... Hello C++ my old friend, haven't used you in eons but I'm sure it's like riding a bike ;) I'll miss the C# hand holding but also look forward to the rawness of doing things in C++ :).

[@ViaConDias]

And to further support my point, some years ago Unity did something very similar to kill a part of their community so they could take over the business that these companies had built, and same as now, the community went mad. Epic and some other companies even got together and made a fund of, I believe, 20 million dollars to help people transition away from Unity,,,,, after a few weeks the yelling died out, and no one ever left Unity.

[@solmasd]

@@ViaConDias what event are you referring to?

[@zack3851]

​@@ViaConDiasI'm curious, too 🥸

[@ProdigiaGames]

You were the first one I thought of when the news dropped, as it's not just the engine that suffers when upheavals happen. There's a whole lot of people with a lot invested in the ecosystem. I'm personally leaning into Godot, mostly because it ticks the boxes I need and...frankly, my poor old PC cries in anticipation every time I pop open the Epic launcher 😂

[@theStepFamm]

same

[@scottfreeman5301]

Is it good for low end PC

[@gatewoodsensei]

I understand lol! I’m in between unreal and Godot myself. Being that i want to make 2d games, Godot might be the one, but CobraCode has some pretty sweet tutorials on making 2d games in unreal so we’ll see

[@tanuguitar1]

@@scottfreeman5301 It is good for all systems. Godot is open source and don't take ANY of your revenue unlike unity or unreal

[@coderaven1107]

@@scottfreeman5301 Godot is, Unreal is not :D

[@daviddeneui6424]

I've been learning on Unity, but I've dabbled in Godot a bit. Fortunately too I've recently started partnering up with a friend from my workplace who is a little further ahead in learning Godot and we are hoping to start building games together on that game engine! Thanks again for the honest informed opinion on this whole matter.

[@anthonypallotta2532]

Been waiting for this video. I heard most others, but I value your advice above most when it comes to the gamedev world, especially Unity. Thanks for waiting and not responding out of emotions, but keeping it collected and honest.

[@average_ms-dos_enjoyer]

Godot contributor here, plenty of room for all

[@ITAngel]

I'm really sorry to hear about the issues Unity developers are having like yourself Thomas. I had just started using Unity myself after buying some courses and assets, so it's disappointing this happened just days later. It seems like the universe was telling me to go back to what I know best, which is Unreal Engine. I figure I'll try to port over the assets I got for Unity and use them in Unreal instead. Like you said, it doesn't hurt for a Unity developer to learn Unreal as a fallback in case one of these companies pulls something like Unity did with their pricing changes. I'm looking forward to seeing what courses and content you create around Unreal. Keep up the great work!

[@Chris_TeeK]

As someone beginning game design I had started with Unity as it was easier. I think going forward I will switch to Unreal before I get too deep into Unity

[@Chemical_Alchemist]

I'd suggest Godot if you're just beginning. It's so much easier to learn than either Unreal or Unity, and works a lot better for solo development than Unreal. I spent months trying out tons of different engines before this whole unity thing, and for a while I went with Unity but after 2-3 more months with Unity, I went to Godot and I'm so glad I did.

[@st.altair4936]

UE is honestly not great for most solo projects, or even small teams. Godot is better for 2D and simple 3D projects imo

[@kkrup5395]

You mean game development? Because for game design you only need Word, or pen and paper

[@BeerfootBandit]

Unreal might be kinda hard at first(it's not as hard as people make it out to be) but once you get used to it you can find success as a solo dev

[@nerd114]

Had to wrap my head around this hullabaloo for 48 hours last weekend and as much I love Unity as a tool, it make sense, business wise, to stay away from shifty entity/deals. Now learning Godot and started porting our 2D game 😊

[@xevrin5905]

I have been Unreal dev since Unity went public, but I still explore other IDEs so I have options just in case. Love your content, cheers!

[@sayuriyuushi9803]

Trust is everything, i'm so glad to hear you're open to moving on from unity because of their skullduggery. Certain other youtubers, especially unity course channels aren't so nobel. Thanks for showing us you're one of the good ones.

[@UNmisterIZE-xz7yx]

Man you wont regret it! with all the new features in 5.3.. now with SKELETON EDITOR! That is Awesome!

[@StephenHermer]

I only started learning Unity this year, and your videos have helped in that process... so, thank you! I only have a couple hundred hours and a couple hundred bucks invested into Unity, so it is pretty easy for me to switch to Godot. So far, I think I like the way Godot works better than Unity, but that might be because I was still learning Unity. I could stay with Unity, but honestly who knows what they will pull in 2024 or 2025.

[@SuPeRNinJaRed]

SAVE US THOMAS!!! But seriously I’m glad you are here to lead us through these crazy times (also I can’t remember which livestream it was but awhile back you had considered switching to Unreal... that was some wild foreshadowing) Anyway, we are all in this together oh captain my captain!

[@Skultanix]

Truth be told, I'm not a developer yet. I was interested in Unity because I learned a bit of C# and it's more straightforward than C++. At this point I'm leaning more towards Godot and Unreal, because they've not torched their own reputations. In B2B reputation is everything and Unity just self-immolated their formally good name.

[@PhilippeKunzle-il7bo]

FYI, Godot supports C# as a scripting language.

[@A120AMIR12]

I'm a unreal developer (more student) and I have subscribed to you for the tips and tricks And I can say for a person like you unreal isn't so hard to learn

[@Monster_Rancher]

Lando protests and again Vader tells him again, “I have altered the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further.”

[@RonMar]

I'm a Unity dev and am looking for a new engine. I work on an existing title that's already shipped, so that is what it is. But, for my own stuff, I'm moving to something else. I'm presently learning Godot and will give that a fair shot for a 3-4 weeks to really get into it. Then, I'll do the same for Stride3D, Flax, and, finally, Unreal. So far, however, I like Godot on the whole. It's very different from Unity, but I'm hoping at the end of my evaluation period that I can have a better idea of what it's capabilities and weaknesses are - - esp with the type of games I want to make.

[@yojan69]

I switched to Unreal at least to test it out and so far I fell in love with Unreal really quick, I think all this Unity thing, even though it won't affect me in a very long time, it made me open my eyes and experiment another tools

[@AxZelAnimations30]

Dropping my 3 year progress in Unity and started slowly migrating my asset in Godot and slowly learning its GDScript and stuff.

[@cavejumper]

I am also in the unfortunate position that I don't have enough time to make proof of the concept if I change the engine. Unreal as a different environment takes as itself too much time to learn and godot isn't there yet for my 3d game. But I will be definitely looking new engine after this project and godot will probably be then almost at same level.

[@evanrutledge-sz4yo]

Taking a small share from sales is perfectly fair and acceptable, it’s the PER-INSTALL that’s insane, they keep saying they have “algorithms,” but nothing about how said algorithms even work. How are they going to track installs? How can we trust that their measurements are actually accurate? No one knows, presumingly not even Unity’s management.

[@mahkhardy8588]

Exactly!

[@jamesverner9132]

Don't be a fool. This is them trying to trick you into handing over money they NEVER EARNED!

[@YourEveryDayJo]

It’s interesting how this is becoming more common these days. For any TTRPG players out there, we’ve seen Wizards of The Coast do this exact same thing with their OGL and destroyed community trust just like Unity is doing. I’ve been looking into game development and looking into learning Unreal as I’ve heard from other game devs that although there’s a steep learning curve you ultimately have unlimited potential and don’t get shot in the foot for success later. Wild world today.

[@SylvanFeanturi]

Yeah, but all it took was a good marketing stunt with Badlur's Gate 3 and their subscriptions of D&D Beyond are back to the numbers from before OGL debacle. All Unity needs is to find their own reset button.

[@YourEveryDayJo]

@@SylvanFeanturi oh wow, I didn’t realize their subscriptions were back up. That’s wild.

[@piousthepious]

I’m going to be honest, I can understand Unreal being well established with features and is mature but I honestly hardly would use any of them. The workflow is just way too nice in Godot, especially for 2D. I haven’t really hit a point where I felt like a Unity or Unreal feature would have been a game changer for me. Instead I felt like the speed and workflow is smooth enough for me to enjoy game dev rather than look at a loading bar every five seconds. The loading time and how slow it is really demotivates me. I switched from Unity to Godot a looong time ago before this whole debacle or any debacle and I can say I never regret moving on from my years of Unity and spending my time in Godot instead

[@Punisher1992]

then you did not work with unreal 2d, its almost the same as with godot, i wroked in both engines, and you CAN use unreal features, you dont have to, and cut the engine down. Of course its some work to do, but it is always. I would not decide on which engine to use sololey by the talks of others, just try it yourself and see what fits you the best.

[@BrunodeSouzaLino]

@@Punisher1992 It's not really. Unity and Unreal fake 2D by limiting some of the 3D features whilst Godot's 2D engine is separate from the 3D engine to the point you can't really start your game in 2D and make it 3D later without redoing the entire thing.

[@mikeholloway6302]

I have been using Unity for a long time too. I agree with you. My work is not worthless. The people at Unity have been good to me. I want the company to work. I thought the plan was to create a money stream to pay a modders pool to work regularly on projects. Like you I am waiting to see how things are going to shake out. Anyway, I was mucking around some with early Unreal a long time back. Really nice. It had problems running on PC, though. Sort of the same problems the newer computers are having with Starfield now. My take away is some problems, or mistakes as I like to call them, early on in developing Unreal were not fixed before it was compiled. If anything like a save before compiling exists it is possible to go back and edit it. The down side is the engine might not work very well with anything made with Unreal 5. The upside is games made with the new Unreal Engine can run full throttle on a newer PC's. Maybe in bash patching Starfield the next few years we might learn how to make it go faster. Recreating Unreal from the ground up? I do not think it is possible to recreate it. Some of the early minds that generated it from imagination are gone forever. Everything started with Unity. Crazy right? I too have been working away at some stuff going back decades. Maybe these works I will just take to the grave with me. My thinking is I would rather burn it to ashes than give it all away to people that cannot appreciate art and don't pay either. I think I am going to exercise my greatest right and remain silent and wait it out. I have heard about your work... I might be interested in helping you. I myself am at a work stoppage waiting for other groups to finish some projects. I will subscribe to your channel. See what's what.

[@SharifSourour]

Good thing we have Godot for 2D and Unreal for 3D (though both can do both).

[@TransmentalMe]

Would love to see your approach to learning UE and some educational content in your style when you're comfortable with it. Even with the investments I've made into Unity, I've committed to switching to Unreal for 3D and Godot for 2D and washing my hands of it.

[@dancingdoormanable]

I think changing to Godot or Unreal will give peace of mind, but also make the quality of the games increase. Gamedev's will have a broader set of situation to have learned from and there are serious quality benefits to Unreal in 3d and Godot in 2d. What's more is that the community will move from more artistic to more technology focused, as people will find new features they like and solve technical problems. If you're good at teaching technology you'll be a hero with a bright future ahead.

[@HoodedOlive]

While I agree that technological problems are important I think it’s still important that games are form of art rather than simply a product. The artistic integrity of things such as games visuals, audio, and even to some extent their mechanical functions. Ideally we as a community can find a healthy balance in our culture eventually.

[@mikekrow]

The trust really is broken. I hadn't event thought about the pirated installs affecting things. dayum.

[@MishimaFanatic]

Was waiting to hear your expert opinion. Thanks!

[@Connorses]

I think this is actually an aggressive push to make people buy that Pro license to pay 2000/year to avoid paying the install fee. The biggest concern for our studio is publishers are going to be wary of Unity from now on. Otherwise, we'd probably keep using Unity because we have too much invested in it. We have experience in it, we have tools, asset store stuff etc. But we are likely to use Unreal soon and I'm gonna start learning Unreal myself.

[@Vastin]

Think real hard about what a partner can do to you with 'install pricing' changes in the future. The basic concept is generally a lot more dire than people seem to realize, because you cannot fundamentally prevent installs. You can stop using dev tools midstride. You can turn off in-game transactions. You can prevent sales thru a store. You CANNOT stop installs. There's no way to do it. If their pricing structure changes again at any point to something you can't sustain, how would you escape? (other than going to court...)

[@jeremiahstiles3383]

I appreciate the courage it takes as someone in your position, with Unity courses and such on the market, an entire community built on Unity game development, to make a video like this. I guess I'm going to have to figure out what other engine to try--I've been amassing Unity assets and bought your course with hopes to start learning, but life challenges have always been in the way. Doesn't make sense to continue with Unity now that it's done this and its future is so uncertain even if they don't betray trust again. Thanks for being real with us, Thomas. Keep at it.

[@jeremiahstiles3383]

@@BrendaKincaid Not sure what the point of your comment is, but I wish you all the best.

[@TheZBillDyl]

Thomas I love you. This video was very genuine. We need more videos showing this side of you. Hopefully one day our paths cross. Good luck with future development everyone :)

[@kryptkeeper2303]

Thomas I'm glad that everyone is discussing their opinion and perspective of the situation, that being said even if they walk this whole thing back this isnt the first time Unity has had backlash, and as indie devs we need stability and be able to trust that changes aren't going to suddenly screw us over. unfortunately for all the actual good people working at unity the higher ups have shown that Unity will break that trust time and time again. this doesn't effect me like it does alot of my friends since i moved to unreal years ago, but i think people really need to look at Unreal and Godot moving forward

[@AfutureV]

Could you mention more about other examples?

[@Kennephus]

And remember this install tracking applies to games on older versions of Unity as well, which would indicate that our installers are already sending packages back to Unity. What data is included in those packages? Who knows.

[@CoolModderJaydonX]

Thank God I already got rid of any and all evidence of working with Unity.

[@AfutureV]

Nothing leaves a computer in secret. If Unity has tracking in their installer right now, we would already know.

[@Kennephus]

@@AfutureV fair, but then it's a mystery how they think they can track installs on games made using prior releases.

[@AfutureV]

@@Kennephus I genuinely believe it is impossible. Even Unity claim they will estimate them, not exactly measure them.

[@BoltRM]

​@@AfutureVI agree, pretty it's much impossible. We also now know they lie. "Trust us" 🤥

[@pachesan]

Im an unreal dev since the beginning. Only watched your videos because you were the only dev i know talking alot about marketing and other game related stuff that can still be apllied to ue5 such as polishing demo and showing it to publishers or crowd fund.

[@DagnirRen]

Was eagerly waiting to hear your opinion. Great videos, my guy 👌

[@ashtonphoenyx]

I remember watching your video when you were talking about wanting to switch to Unreal Engine a while back. You were one of the first people I thought of when all of this Unity chaos broke out lol

[@imtomgamedev]

Great talk! I've been learning game development in earnest since 2019, yet to publish anything. My own loyalty to Unity was in that I viewed Unity as a good option create certain games, without necessarily having to be a programmer. The asset store and support of developers has been a huge encouragement. I have however since the company went public and began eliminating internal developers begun to since a shift in motivations. I'm on the downhill slide toward 60, and have experienced a lot of change in computer graphics industry over 30+ years. For my interests and even though I've invested so much into valued Unity assets and time working with the engine, after a couple of days taking in the news and consuming the thoughts of legit developers, without turning back and for the foreseeable future am shifting over to Godot. My interests and development needs appear to be able to be well fulfilled in the Godot engine. Unreal would be another option, though, overkill for my own needs. For what my opinion may be worth as a baby developer, Unity has done great harm to the very group who are equal to the success of their product as the Unity staff developers. The saving grace for indie developers is that Unity is NOT the only tool in town. There are good viable choices in other engines even for those who are still learning coding. Anyway, I appreciate your pause and considered thoughts on Unity's actions, Mr. Brush.

[@yojanselcuevas9829]

I know we all have our thoughts about what's going on but here are mine: -It's true that implementing a malware and tracking our projects is very wrong and break the trust of lots of developers including me as a new developer. -Some people think they can pay the fee per install without problem depending on how successful the game is but for most of developers it's very bad cuz you pay for a plan, then pay by publishing the game and now paying the fee per install which there could be users harming developers in taking advantage of uninstalling, installing again etc. Making the developers not get a decent amount in profit or a good amount of money to pay for resources for their projects like audio, effects, videos, blenders etc. The point is no one will progress or succeed by working hard and spending years of life if those fees are implemented.

[@gabe2o2]

I’ve been waiting for this video. Your thumbnail is exactly how I felt (feel?). Moved on to Unreal after the announcement and I’m feeling way better already. Best of luck Thomas!

[@ZephrusPrime]

I've been using Unreal since UE3, I just can't imagine using another engine. It's well worth it to learn.

[@aimnone]

excited to see you learn about nanite and all the features unreal has over unity

[@Aquilasdev]

As much as I love Unreal, I need Unity to be good. They play an important role in the marketplace as quality competition. Each engine knows that if they screw up too bad or fall too behind they will lose users and revenue to the other one.

[@mahkhardy8588]

Exactly. Unreal (Epic) could get to big for its own good and go stupid as well.

[@Elatzy]

@@mahkhardy8588 yeah if the monopolize they can technically do things much worse

[@SmithyJones3]

I agree that good competition needs to exist, but Unity doesn't need to be that competition for Unreal. Another engine can take that role. Unreal reaping the benefits of Unity's failure is exactly the mechanism you described.

[@megawill04]

From the doom and gloom from a ton of game devs about Unity’s recent policy changes. I love seeing Devs use a positive learning mindset for other game engines❤

[@GoldBl4d3]

I appreciate your honest experience Thomas. Thankfully you look at different engines objectively. Unreal is far ahead of godot and still the better bet for game development. Its a mature engine. Godot is a nice engine thats open source, just limited and still the new kid on the block.

[@medhue]

I switched to Unreal a few years ago, mostly because of the lower fees on their Marketplace, as I sell animated assets. Since going to Unreal, I refused to do projects in Unity. Unreal is just so much nicer to work in. I have a client I've helped make a couple of games with, and they were stuck in Unity. Now it looks like they are switching to Unreal, and I'll be helping them with their next game.

[@srsherman7]

I've been waiting to hear your opinion! Thanks for the video. I've moved on to godot and unreal. I used to use unreal before I got into unity.

[@blasterxt9]

Be with you, sir Thomas. Even though I'm also using Unreal Engine 4 paper 2d.

[@B_Carr007i]

Im already good at Unity, not turning back now. Gonna enjoy the ride

[@mikaellindberg93]

When I read your tweet about trusting in Unity a couple days ago, I truly couldn't see where you're coming from. I've been mostly silent about all of this seeing as I'm just a hobbyist, so I truly have - no say - in all of this, generally. However, the way you have updated your opinion and kept positive to changes (in the following tweets, and your comment under here) should be highly respected. It's very easy to put on blinders and act in pure frustration, and sometimes rage. This is a very difficult situation for a ton of people, and I won't pretend I can fully empathize as my livelyhood doesn't depend on this. I'm soon 8 minutes into the video, I'll update my comment / write a reply if needed. Hope any solo dev or team reading this are finding some foothold in Godot or Unreal. I'm not much of a Unity developer, but if somebody needs help in venting thoughts, discussing porting, anything, feel free to reach out and I'll help where I can.

[@sion0053]

Having been using Unity for the last 10 years. Started looking into Godot this week.

[@lylewyant3356]

I watched part of an interview Jason W. did with this this CEO and had an uneasy feeling about him.

[@okamichamploo]

Thank you for taking the time to break down the details. It's a bit of a pet peeve of mine, but I've been getting a bit irked by all the youtube vids coming out that just sum it up like, Unity is now charging 20 cents per install! and then 8 minutes into the video after milking the outrage enough they quietly explain that there may be some conditions to that statement. Not saying that the details justify the monetization, but details are important for stuff like this.

[@neoware9030]

Switching to Godot. It will delay my games, but I won´t stick to a engine that have a CEO that can charge you backwards at any time that he wants and made no clear statement about how they will track your game install ("trust me bro, I´m not like those greedy guys from EA. Yeah, I was that very same CEO of EA that made it such a unlikable brand").

[@AaronAsherRandall]

I’m a beginner Unity developer for 3 years now. I’ve made over 30 projects, heavily documented. I’ve spent the better half of my life the past 3 years attempting to deeply understand Unity’s 2D and 3D physics system along with so many other things Unity has to offer. C# is now my favorite programming language. Frankly I am extremely depressed and like you said Thomas, I can’t believe they did this 😞

[@Aeroxima]

Flax uses C# (and C++), a bunch others can do it in a secondary kind of way too. Flax is the most like Unity though, but extremely fast, quick development, though still newer and untested.

[@unrighteous8745]

Really insightful video. I've seen some people complaining that it's ridiculous to have to pay game engines royalties, ignoring that it's Unreal's business model. That has absolutely nothing to do with the outrage. The issues are the unfairness and potential risks of the "per install" system, Unity forcing people to download what is essentially spyware, the incredibly short warning, making the new policy retroactive, and deleting/hiding their previous EULA. I've become increasingly frustrated with Unity for years now (not warning users about stolen assets on the asset store, a fake refund policy where they make you wait months for a response and then ask for a full on court document detailing why you deserve a refund, LTS updates that introduce bugs that never get fixed, ignoring user feedback, marking bug reports as "by design" when it's very clearly a bug, removing features from 2020 that I REALLY NEEDED, and... I guess that's about it for my complaints) and honestly... I can't say I'm upset that their latest decision has blown up in their face like this.

[@LFPAnimations]

One thing to note is that Epic has publicly stated that any changes to their Terms of Service will not retroactively apply to older versions so you can stick with the TOS that you agreed to when you installed the engine. It is kind of legally dubious that Unity can change their agreement to old versions and if they wanted to regain trust they could make a statement similar to this publicly. This way in the future if they come out with new absurd terms, devs could just use an old version of the engine.

[@RockyMulletGamedev]

Totally agree with the "dreamer" argument. Even if you don't make the minimum amount... you kind of want to ? Do you really want to make a game where you can't even dream of being successful ?

[@daviddeneui6424]

Thanks for sharing this information Thomas! It's helpful for making future decisions with game dev learning!

[@Phil-Des]

I was wondering when Thomas was going to react lol. In my case, I am one of his students, but still chose to switched to Godot a year ago. Oh boy do I not regret it today...

[@TreeFallStudios]

Woo! Thanks for the shout out in the vid with our tweet. Great video, hope we can link up some time for your podcast. I'm in the same boat as you, I have a few projects that are close to completion, and after we finish those up in Unity we are moving on to learn Unreal. This whole news cycle and Unity debacle has just been wild man. A LOT of people are fired up about it, when I dropped my video on it, the amount of comments I got was CRAZY. People do not trust Unity anymore and a lot of devs I have spoken too are extremely worried about their financial positions. Either moving projects over to a new engine, or just having to take the time to learn a new engine in general has gotten people scared. A lot of devs also seem to be worried about losing all the assets they bought on the Unity Asset Store as well, been a wild week. Keep it up man. -Eli

[@gabe2o2]

@11:15, as Asmon said, folks are not trying to build a castle on quick sand. Black hole analogy is also good

[@The6thRonin]

@THomas, love your course. I , fortunately, have switched from Unity to Unreal a few months ago and loving it. For the longest time I loved Unity, but Something told me to switch and try Unreal and I'm very glad that I did. In addition, using BluePrint is a bit more easier in getting many things done in development too.

[@douglasgrillo]

I do love how Unreal interface works and I have used it for a few small projects, but I recognize the usability and benefits of using Unity, since this semester I started the development of my game and decided to use Unity, fortunately, I was still in the pre-production phase so it wasn't to hard to switch to Unreal, probably it will take a little more time to develop but I'm happy with the switch. I totally understand and support the people who have to continue developing their game in Unity, I just hope that in the future, Unity as a company keeps a nice user base, with a reasonable business model, and give to the people who have to or decide to develop using Unity with a great and trustworthy tool how has always been.

[@EricOlorunfemi]

Wise move. As much as I love using Unreal, I'm still in the process of learning Godot. Epic is still a Mega Corp and there's no guarantee that money won't force them to make controversial decisions in the future. I don't think people need to jump ship from unity yet, but it won't hurt to have more baskets for your eggs at this point.

[@St4rdog]

The only engines to rely on are fully open-source. Epic will pull the same moves when the Fortnite cash dries up.

[@EricOlorunfemi]

@@St4rdog I have to say I agree with you. Better safe than sorry. Open source is the surest way to go.

[@Kit-Alpha]

@@St4rdog Absolutely excellent point! As a beginning solo dev, I had been trying to choose between Unreal and Godot - Unity is now out of that running - (I've only spent about a month on each of them), and your comment just sealed the deal for me...Here I come Godot! Thanks!

[@officialspock]

If Unity can do this, whats stopping Unreal? I'll switch to Godot, it's open source

[@luaykashef]

I recently started learning Unreal, and I'm so sad to say that the more I learn Unreal I realize how many assets we had to pay hundreds of dollars for in the Unity assets store that are simply provided, preinstalled, and supported by Unreal, not a third party FOR FREE!!!! And even more, there are tools in Unreal that blew my mind. Unity would never make such tools not in a million years, now I can say that there is simply no competition between Unity and Unreal, Unreal is Levels LEVELS above Unity!!! And I am glad Unity did what they did with the fees and pushed me to learn Unreal.

[@zae33247]

Hey ! As a unity dev Im installing Ue and I wanted to know what are those asset which are free in ue

[@luaykashef]

@zae33247 where do i start here is a list of assets that has a free equivalent for them in unreal and MADE BY UNREAL: Alomst anything a game developer needs from blender there is a tool for that in unreal including animating characters Mesh baker Technie collider creator 2 Ray fire Animation designer Pupper master Final ik Any Ai tool in unity asset store there is that in unreal including mass ai pedestrians systems Ai tree Dialoge system And so much more like sooo much more There are even tools that aren't even found on the unity asset store that are made by unreal and people say the asset store are bigger than unreals market place, well of course its bc unity has nothing.

[@zorkie7]

Wow! I was literally just about to start a new project in Unity. Thankfully, I only purchased one asset which wasn't really that expensive. But I've seen the same asset (and some even better) on the Unreal Engine Store. I will use Unity to finish off my current project but this new project is going on the Unreal Engine. Thanks Unity.

[@gamawoodev]

thanks for explaining this , i'm happy that i made the right choice of learning Unreal Engine two years ago !

[@twiggystemz7724]

Happy to hear that you might actually switch to unreal! You produce great content and videos about game development in general. I use unreal and still watch you’re videos even though you were working with Unity. Good luck, hope you enjoy Unreal!

[@indianastilts]

Great video! Unity has come back with an announcement stating they have listened to feedback and an announcement of changes are coming. Hope it is a change of install aspect. Completely get a company has to charge...per Installs though...doesn't make sense

[@elojoquetodolove3162]

It's time to learn GODOT

[@f11bot]

Also been using Unity for nearly 10 years, really like how it worked and it's where I learned game making. But I've decided to port my project to Unreal, I was lucky the game was not released yet, still in time to port it. Unreal has been a pleasant surprise! I don't have that great of a laptop but I managed to get it running in some cases faster than Unity, and Unreal has a TON of stuff built in that I needed in Unity that's just free. And coming from C#, C++ doesn't seem that bad honestly, still getting used to the whole game engine. But I won't look back, don't want the future of my project being dependent on a company with such uncertain future. And honestly I should've used Unreal for my kind of project from the get go, it's been ton of fun learning and exploring new stuff!

[@ahmadjames151]

Unity just treat users like idiot or something!

[@pixelart0124]

What advice do you have for people just starting out learning game dev, currently in Unity? Advise us to continue learning in Unity cuz of the community support and resources, then transition to another engine when we have the skills to build a full game to be released? OR switch now to another engine like Godot or Unreal and invest in that from the beginning? Thanks for the video Thomas!

[@CraftingBenchGames]

I'm really let down. I've been working on my game for three years now in Unity. Fortunately, I am close to completion. However, once I finish the game I am most likely going to be switching to either Godot or Unreal for my future projects.

[@claudlowe9228]

I agree with you. The truth will only come out with time. Let the dust settle first. The final result may be completely different than what's rumored. As a one time programmer, from the seventies, I've seen changes that horrified me and some that made me want to party. It depends on your point of view and needs. New developers might try several engines to see which really fits their needs.

[@creationsmaxo]

I also pointed out to Unity about the potential issues coming from Net Cafes in certain countries. Net Cafes are supposed to purchase 1 license (per game) per PCs, but you can guess that many Net Cafes uses the Steam Offline + Family Share trick to skimp on that requirement. For example, if a Net Cafe has 40 PCs, it might purchase 10x a game, put it on every PC (while they are online with Steam) and 30 are installed via Family Share, then put in Offline mode. Then the Net Cafe will put a note on those "Steam Offline" PCs that players can only play a certain list of game. It's easy to "hide" the immediate offline mode access with a custom Executor/Shortcut on Steam and, on those PCs, the Steam-Online-only available games aren't installed anyway. So, if your game is even remotely popular in countries with Net Cafes being more or less a norm, the chances of your not exceeding the thresholds and ending up paying as much as $1-$2 per purchase (if not more) is actually not slim at all. If you sold your game for $10 and, for example, in China Net Cafe buy ~1 license per 10PCs in average, you're looking at a ~2$/purchase cost for using Unity. If steam takes 30%, that's means you're left with $5 out of that initial $10. If your game is insanely popular, but just a tad more expensive than what Net Cafes might be willing to pay for, you might get as low as ~1 license sold per 20 or even 30 PCs. That's a $4-$6 cost per sale for the Runtime Fee.

[@wilpuriarts5895]

Former RPG Maker dev and now a GDevelop dev. Tried Unity with Mr. Brush’s 2D Unity template, but it seemed too complicated and heavy for me at this point. Now I’m glad it did, because I’d be scared to invest years with that engine and then get slapped by some surprise price-hike. Got slapped already by RPG Maker when they removed Mac support in the middle of my project and I work on Mac. Got my game Single Malt Apocalypse released, but there was a moment of frustration when it seemed I can’t continue without buying a new computer (and I had just bought a new computer).

[@theStepFamm]

you were the first person i thought of when i heard the bad news. hope it all works out ok for you guys.

[@StudioSquires]

I have been using UE since 2020. You WILL love it when you get used to it. The blueprint system, nanite, lumen, meta humans and so much more! Welcome brother.

[@SolidSt8Dj]

What I mainly see as the problems are the fact that we have no real knowledge as to how they are going to track installs. They might do malware, they might literally just be guessing. Regardless, it's still a "Trust me bro" situation. But this also comes coupled with the fact that these install fees are incredibly high, highly abusable, retroactive to all past games, and absolutely have pose a bankruptcy risk to developers, studios, or publishers. Yes, there are rumours they are no longer counting existing installs, and that fees are capped at 4% revenue, now with self-reporting, but these are still only rumours, not to mention this still doesn't count the fact these fees are taken from revenue, not profit, you still have to pay all of your exist, and they are clearly capable and willing to not only screw over their customers, but to knowingly do so by removing previously existing TOS protections. We *then* still need to remember that they have stated they were willing to reimburse/ignore 80%-100% of the fees to developers if they switched from a competitors ad-company (which is generally regarded as the superior option), which is an anti-trust lawsuit waiting to happen (is what I would say if the FTC had any balls or brains whatsoever). On top of all that, we still have to remember that they have removed Unity Plus, and they have made the free version of Unity online-only. So the malware idea definitely holds/held the most ground. We also need to take a look at the executives that, at the very least, have some *very* shady (but not necessarily criminal) actions regarding selling their shares, such that it's not unreasonable to say they simply intend to pull a crypto-bro-esque exit strategy. Looking directly at the CEO, he was previously the CEO for EA at which point they were ranked "Worst company in the world" by Consumer Reports 2-3 years in a row, he has been recorded saying that charging Battlefield players for ammo in the middle of the game was a smart business move, along with other transgressions (which he is now inflicting onto Unity), all of which resulted is his TERMINATION. They have now had over a week to come up with any kind of response, of which they have only officially apologized for "Confusing language", pointing to a fundamental lack of understanding about what they've done wrong in the first place. I have nothing but sympathy for any studio affected by these actions, but I will have zero sympathy for anyone that continues to trust Unity beyond this point. But I will leave on this note: Everyone trusted Unity would never do something like this, but they did. The only form of agreement there could have been was one based on trust, because at the end of the day, Unity gets the final say. Unreal is no different, other than that they are run by different people. If you want an example of why open-source software is important, then let this be a great example.

[@IMED_LAKEHAL]

Even if there is not enough time, I am trying to learn unreal and still working on my unity project.

[@antiprime4665]

Switched from unity to unreal 2 years ago and it had a bit of a learning curve that frustrated me but now i love unreal, its so easy to prototype ideas

[@Hirosanman]

I am a Unity developer. I was told a year ago that Unity was the best and safest place to go for new game developers. I took all the classes. Learned C# and absorbed myself into the basics all the way up to even the most advanced topics for both programming and engine tech. I’ve spent the better part of the last year building up my portfolio, applying to jobs, and working on my game I will be releasing on Steam. I spent the last fifteen years of my life in love with game development and have made a number of board games but never thought I could get into game development as if it was a giant guarded complex that only the best and luckiest we’re allowed into. In the last few years I had cancer and then COVID hit me super hard and I decided to do the thing I love and have always loved. Unity was supposed to be my doorway. A nice stepping stone to help lift me into this closely knit world. Now it feels like just another roadblock that’s trying to hold me back like everything else I’ve gone through in my life. I love the Unity engine, but at this point what game Company is going to hire me with my Unity skills? What game company is going to trust the Unity company with their current leadership. While I finish up my game I have decided I’m going to learn both Godot and Unreal. Nothing is going to stop me from making games. Even this shitshow.

[@kulex00]

Looking forward to your future Unreal game dev videos

[@jimkurth]

About the tracking of installs: Whenever a game gets installed and it requires the use of Unity's runtime engine to install, I'm pretty sure Unity receives the Install call from an Object ID which could be referencing the product ID/game and maybe another key to indicate the machine it was installed on. This is pretty standard operations I'm sure of. So, I don't think there's any questionable reason to believe Unity doesn't know how many times a product and user has requested the Unity runtime engine for installations. Not really sure why people are asking how Unity can track installs. I get that people feel broken trust but there's always an announcement which came from planning behind doors before it was announced. It's always considered "Rug pulled" or "trust broken" if it is taken as negative action to the audience but considered "news!" if it's not. I'm working in Unity and plan to continue working in Unity. I think a lot of people think that once you hit the threshold, you'll start paying on the first 200k installs, and that's not true. It's only for installs AFTER you meet the thresholds. Lastly, I think a lot of people don't realize when this becomes an issue for developers. This would affect big game companies significantly who have a budget and financial structure well-planned. The indie solo developer or small teams may never see a change in this. Let's make an example of a game that sells 300k copies at $1, $5, and $10 AND you have exceeded the $200k revenue and 200k sales within the 12-month period. At $1 and 300k installs/sales, your net revenue after Unity's Runtime Fee would be $280,000 and not $300,000. At a $5 price, your net revenue would be $1.48 million and not $1.5 million. At $10 per sale, your net revenue would be $2.98 million and not $3 million. And that's at the standard non-Pro/Enterprise Unity accounts. For me personally, I think the whole Unity community is breaking down and sobbing over this and I don't think they realize the impact of it.

[@willtaylor808]

good luck with all this been fantasising about making a game for a long time and after procrastinating for ages, i finally decided to commit to learning unity on the day this was all announced... i downloaded unreal

[@craigmortell]

In terms of the pricing structure another weird / baffling part of it is that the per install fee is monthly. This appears to mean that at the 1st of each month you roll back to paying $0.15 per install regardless of where you were the day before. You could have a bumper month hitting the 1m mark on say Jan 31 and be paying $0.02 for a couple of hours before the clock strikes midnight and we all turn back into pumpkins paying $0.15. And whose timezone are we using? That may seem flippant but 1m installs a month averages out to 1344 per hour (on a 31 day month). So if you are hitting that volume then the $0.13 difference would be $174.72 per hour (assuming the rate was perfectly even). It would be more if your install rate is higher. So the difference between say New York and Sydney is 14 hours taking that difference up to $2,446.08 for rolling past midnight in the wrong timezone. Be careful what day of the month you release new features / updates.

[@Developesque]

I started on Unreal, built a great 3D Snowball PvP game (that I had to cancel due to server costs), and moved to Unity.... womp womp.

[@Xero_Wolf]

The bottom line for me is even if Unity walks everything back, they've now lost all trust in me as developer. I used Unity in the pass but two years ago I made the decision to use Godot for my game projects ideas. I am familiar with Unreal and may use it in the future for larger projects but for now Godot suites my indie game dev needs just fine.

[@rmt3589]

This pushed me to start making my own engine. Knew I'd need to eventually, and was just worried about converting my Unity knowledge and games to a custom engine in the future. You'll be one of my goto resources for crafting parts of this. Would love to see you take a swing at your own engine too!!!

[@rmt3589]

I will take a swing at godot myself, and probably use it if I take a break from making my own game engine. But want to at least put code down.

[@okamichamploo]

I'm in a similar boat. I use UE5 at work, but I prefer Unity for my personal work and will continue using it for my current projects. BUT... I am trying out Godot and it looks pretty promising for future dev. I will keep up with Unreal for work as well but yeah, it's not a super pleasant experience for the types of games I want to make. Godot will probably be my life boat.

[@testoww]

Thanks for your voice at the table !

[@mahkhardy8588]

Hang in there Tom! Do what you gotta do!