Attacks on the British Empire undermine the West | Nigel Biggar on the Empire's forgotten legacy

As the West grapples with a movement to decolonise museums, universities and public spaces, debates over the British Empire and its legacy continue. To discuss the morality of the British Empire Steven Edginton is joined by Professor Nigel Biggar whose recent book on the subject has caused controversy.
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[Saraiva Toledo]

Basically a pretty thought provoking History lesson. Got me very curious about the book. Also, on another note,we need more young people like this Journalist/interviewer ,as opposed to Propagandists reading from a politically charged script.

[S H]

Very well articulated and thank God for men like this.

[Egor Shitikov]

I am really grateful to The Telegraph and Nigel. It is marvellous to watch people who point to the facts and have expertise. I guess everyone is tired of baseless allegations and overwhelming emotions of some groups. Let's study more and try to be more accurate

[Helena McGinty]

Yes. It is always good to give a platform to a reasoned dissenting voice. We should all listen to each other more.

[Elvis Presley]

WHATAPP

[Elvis Presley]

Text him on

[Elvis Presley]

6635

[Elvis Presley]

557

[Jayne Riley]

They should teach the Ottoman Empire, Zulu Empire etc in schools (or run a series on world slavery and empire since pre-history on the TV). Many people are totally unaware that these have been a feature since the dawn of human existence.

[jumble stiltskin]

I agree, if our history is to be taught properly in a "global" sense, then context is necessary and the wider history should be explained.

[Golden.Lights.Twinkle]

There were many empires in Africa.

[Mark Anderson]

Very interesting commentary. I've just ordered a copy of Nigel Biggar's book.

[Tony Gold]

Look forward to reading this book.

[Matt Boney]

Hearing that from France, I have the feeling most of this is quite relevant to us as well.

[George Mayo]

Very well explained.

[e]

Hooray for Nigel Biggar! And hooray Steven Edginton for interviewing him. I will go straight out tomorrow morning to buy the book and will look out for more of these interviews.

[jumble stiltskin]

I bought it this week, its a great read that provides a lot to think about.

[Mitch Young]

LOL, given the times I thought this was about literal attacks on a current empire.

[Victoria Ward]

Looking forward to buying his book. His voice was needed on Radio 4 during the Summer of 2020 when they had a moral maze episode about decolonisation but did not include a panelist who was critical of it. That was the last time I tuned in.

[Victoria Ward]

@jumble stiltskin Good! I've seen that it is available on Audible so will probably give it a listen there. Happy reading!

[Victoria Ward]

@Helena McGinty I don't recall who was on it, but the very question was presented as an uncontested fact (something like decolonisation is a sensible thing that needs to happen... how shall we do it). Not what I was looking for in the BLM frenzy that had taken over the country. No debate (not on the level it was needed at anyway). Yes, it is a good programme generally (or was once - not sure what it is like nowadays).

[jumble stiltskin]

Yes indeed the "moral maze" I caught that episode myself and it was a disgracefully biased event. I bought his book this week, well worth a read.

[Helena McGinty]

What that lady with the very right wing views wasnt on it? I havent listened in a while. I always found I learned something from it. Didnt always change my basic view but often one moderates ones view or at least learns to understand why others might differ.

[Victoria Ward]

@Wasiq Wasiq Oh I didn't realise it had already been published!

[S H]

Hahahaha " Not all publishers are as cowardly as Bloomsbury " legendary stand up guy 🤣 😆 😂

[DaveS]

Excellent interview

[Miriam Wells]

He reminds me of my uncle John who just can’t believe we don’t have an empire anymore and those cheeky natives are even daring to come and live here!! The cannon fodder stopped breeding long ago haha

[Syed Maricar]

All empires come to the end when their time runout.

[Sunshine lollipops]

Do all empires necessarily have a shelf life?

[ginojaco]

Good man, good interview; book ordered. 😊

[Rachel Kingsley]

I love Steven’s work. He is a top journalist.

[Sebastian Verney]

Well spoken, Nigel Biggar.

[Wes Boden]

I wonder if a deeper explanation of Prejudice vs. Racism would be useful. Humans are born with a need to Pre-Judge the outcomes of situations they encounter in life. Every society has Prejudice. However, racism is an incorrect, and extremist learned behaviour, and is relatively rare in most countries including the U.S.

[EJ S]

Yes. That sounds like a very important study.

[Golden.Lights.Twinkle]

Racism is not rare in China, Japan, the Middle East and Africa. It is rare in all the nations where it is claimed to be systemic.

[tomtom21194]

Just bought the book

[Norman Fairbrass]

Colonialism seems to me to have the dynamics of an arms race. We simply couldn't opt out of it just like we had no option than to build a strong navy. It was bad enough when it was just the French and Spanish, but when Germany started their colonies in East Africa everybody had no other choice but to join in the scramble.

[North Paul]

@Ashli Babbitt croaked it pretty sure someone else would have colonised them then

[Ashli Babbitt croaked it]

​@Peter Webb If they want to stay in the stone age, that is their prerogative.

[Ó Luinneacháin]

@Peter Webb so would your perspective be shaped by being a descendant of former colonisers?

[Peter Webb]

@Ó Luinneacháin Doesn’t automatically make it wrong, either. It’s how it was done that matters, and the British did it better than most. I’ve lived all my life in a former British colony. If it were not for colonisation, the stone-age would still be peak-technology, and the tribes would still be spearing each other.

[Ó Luinneacháin]

@Golden.Lights.Twinkle doesn’t make it right.

[Conall General]

At 2.:30 Prof Biggar correctly summarises and identifies the problem. And the answer is yes, without doubt, the basis for the Britain's mercantile and economic endowment, and its concomitant wider social impacts, is a legacy of its colonial endeavours in the past . But the next discussion should be about how to acknowledge this, and how to learn from it and how to frame an appropriate national and international response that looks to a more fairer and more equitable framework of engagement with other peoples and countries.

[Gary Phisher]

Africans had been selling other Africans for centuries (or even longer) before the British arrived. When the British started buying them, they were already being sold to the Arabs, Ewjs, and other Africans - so why shouldn't the British buy them too? Also read "They were white, they were slaves". Britons had been en slav ed for centuries too - tens of thousands ending up in Africa and Arabia...

[Robert Miller]

Wow! It is scary the whole Race thing is scary globally. It has happened here in New Zealand under Jacinda Ardern, trying to rewrite history. Here in New Zealand we had a Treaty...we still squabble about it, but not too often. However now we are being forced to discover Co Governance....no more one person one vote!!!!!???!!!

[Nicholas Fitzwilliams]

Well done Harry for fanning NYT's flames

[tandrichter]

An ethicist in our time is rare if not unique. Under his humble almost ascetic demeanour with which he assesses the vast wealth of historic facts he clearly has poured over in search of the true contextual morality of the time make him a scholar and a true force in this field. His account is pure history perceived from the ethical vantage point. What would be history and historic research/facts without discerning them and seeing them from the ethical viewpoint. His work is a valuable contribution to the British Empire history, an account deeply researched with amazing integrity and humility. A veritable scholar, so rare in our times.

[vague57]

Mind boggling ability to discuss the European imperial era without use of vocabulary such as class, democracy, self-determination, nationalism. Did he use the word colonialism? Not sure.

[Yeet Man]

​@Ó Luinneacháinso it was moarchies ve monarchies

[Ó Luinneacháin]

@Ario 4 what colonists were/are democracies?

[Ario 4]

which pre-colonial countries were democracies?

[cheiftain]

Zulu wars he used . Spear v spear not spear v 15 pounder and martini henrey

[Greg Moore]

There is some dusky books on the background...I wonder how many of them Nige has actually read? Probably most of them, he is a scholar after all, and prob knows more about everything that u and I, and well, especially modern taught uni students!

[George Mayo]

Interesting topic.

[Conall General]

He doesn’t address the fundamental question - what was the purpose of British Colonial Enterprise ?

[david maryan]

Really good and very interesting

[Long Fence]

He really has given it his best 😂, but it’s apparent, he’s got a lot of knowledge of a little.

[Kim Spence-Jones]

To what extent is society’s change of view on slavery related to the advent of machines in the industrial revolution? One could argue that when mechanical effort began to replace human effort, it became easier to abandon slavery.

[Silvermoon Girl]

What a blanket statement putting down a people.

[Peter C.]

@Kim Spence-Jones Study up about it and how Jesuits and others helped people of South America against secular imperialist and slave owners. The Pope had little power, he proclaimed a Bull, the secular monarchs said, no.

[Kim Spence-Jones]

@Peter C. Theory vs practice?

[Peter C.]

1537, Sublimis Deus.

[Apirana100]

Surely at its simplest it is the movement from being a colonised entity to being an independent state i.e. from being colonised to being not colonised?

[MK]

It is not that simple. Decolonisation is often followed by the process of the seizure of power by a small clique of indigenous individuals who rule the country as if it were a conquered territory. This process occurred in almost all African countries.

[K Theodor]

I am not sure that from a clear and unambiguous position of juniority, since really WWII to the present (and perhaps even more so having cut our influence and ties with the continent of Europe), to the United States we should be talking disparagingly about the United States, our one and only *special* *relationship* . Especially, given what that relationship has given us over the years (actually as far back as WWI). We really ought to know how reliant upon the U.S. we have been and still very much are, rather than the U.S. being all that heavily reliant upon us. We ought to be pragmatic and know our place, as United Kingdom, before the United States. It is called *realpolitik* , and I expected much better from the Telegraph. Being junior partner to the United States has stood the United Kingdom in good stead. We ought to always remember that.

[Ó Luinneacháin]

The current special relationship is between UK and Rwanda.

[K Theodor]

@Brian Crowther No Brian. If we were in the 1820s, I would have happily gone along with your dismissive acronym. But we are in the 2020s. To know one's place in the order of things, certainly know our place before the United States is realism. Think of Churchill, think of our great Margaret Thatcher: ultimately, it is pragmatism, pragmatism and more pragmatism in the Anglo-American special relationship. It is working with reality, Brian, and thus furthering our interests in the shadow of the United States. Really, nothing wrong with that. We have to adapt Brian. I expected the Telegraph to do its work from within such well established realities.

[Brian Crowther]

BS

[Shaiah Eyes2c]

Hear, hear!

[Norman Knight]

There is no need to place lived before experience, the entire point of the word experience is to convey the understanding that the person has, experienced something, they can not do that while dead for example.

[jamwri 671]

Books, books, books. Look at all the books. They must be on the side of truth.

[Graham Turner]

Anyone have the book details please?

[Mal Preece]

It’s: N. Biggar, ‘Colonialism: A Moral Reckoning’ (Collins, 2023). 👍🏻

[Jon Gunson]

I rather value the views on this subject of an old Etonian imperial policeman called Eric Blair. He wasn't keen, as I recall.

[Steven Farrall]

Superb. Tell me. Why isn't this on the BBC?

[Duncan Stewart]

There is a dilemma. Should we only post unity and positive monuments? Do we not risk nostalgia for the past to be misunderstood. Slavery and colonial rule were bad. There is a risk that like the Soviets we reshape the perception of the past. Abandoning our ideals for quick profits 📈. Skin color is a poor observation in this day and age. I feel a lawsuit coming.

[Bryan O neill]

Agreed, acceptance of past mis deeds is the first step

[Ó Luinneacháin]

That BLM protester asking that the police be disarmed was obviously referring to the PSNI , a current British colonial police force.

[Ó Luinneacháin]

@Sid Not Vicious 😂

[Sid Not Vicious]

No it's not. It is the legitimate police force of the state which includes Northern Ireland. Southern Ireland is the breakaway part so one could consider the Garda as the illegitimate enforcers of a rebel held area. However, no-one would say that as it would be as stupid as your comment. Anyway, Northern Ireland is not a colony, nor has it ever been - it is a constituent part of the United Kingdom.

[Victor Newman]

Oxymoronic: de-colonisation is actually colonisation in plain sight!

[NayNay]

Precisely, but under the guise of democratic values. Empires evolve, colonialism evolved the masks change but the faces remains the same

[A.H Octavius]

Finally an honest explanation for why America REALLY rebelled against the motherland. American greed … nothing more

[Larry Buchannan]

@Brian Crowther Britain has an apalng histry. Britain waged wars against Australian aboriginals and nz maori. Britain waged 12 wars in the Indian subcontinent Britain waged 3 wars against afghanistan We did the right thing by rebelling against britain.

[Larry Buchannan]

Britain has an apalng histry. Britain waged wars against Australian aboriginals and nz maori. Britain waged 12 wars in the Indian subcontinent Britain waged 3 wars against afghanistan We did the right thing by rebelling against britain.

[Brian Crowther]

Yes nd there were loads of people loyal to Britain in America. It was only with the help of the French that the Americans were able to pull it off. What I love is the fact the French did this at a time when they would have been, I am guessing here, executing democrats as commiting treason (sedition), like they did in the UK at the time. That the democratic theory which largely originated in France at that time came back on them in the form of the French Revolution. Like Ancient Rome though the American constitution is designed to keep out tyrants like George 3rd. Pretty sensible really, even if the motivation is greed all dressed up as liberty, fraterny, equality.

[Malope Phasha]

They wanted it all

[Paulus8765]

I wonder how many black historians Mr Biggar has asked for comment on his manuscript, or on his assessment of the British Empire in general.

[Marcus]

Best deal in facts than box ticking

[Helena McGinty]

Am not a fan of the idea of Empire from the Persians, Romans through to the current Russian imperial pretensions. We are witnessing what it feels like from the invaded country currently. But whereas I learnt about the British Empire at school, even while it was slowly disintegrating, why did we never learn about the Malian Empire, the Zulu empire et al. Possibly because back in the 1950s it was still not acknowledged that African countries were civilised before Europeans went there? I am also not keen on the wholesale kow towing to the (what seems to be mostly white, middle class, and self important ) bullies who do not want even to listen to another view.

[Riya Ali]

@Helena McGinty British women and the working class were not even respected until after WW2. India was the richest country in the world until the Mughals lost control and the British took full advantage of.

[Brian Crowther]

Spot on

[Helena McGinty]

​@TigerThat revolting practice was part of their customs. The Indians had civilisations going back to possibly 3000 BC. We were still in the neolithic. So the British, quite rightly,banned a cruel cultural practice while at the same time in Britain women were not allowed to control their own lives. Especially women from wealthy families and the aristocracy who were treated as chattels to be bargained lije cattle.

[Tiger]

Many places WEREN'T civilised - including today. The abandoned practice of 'Sati', for instance which the British Empire banned, was never reintroduced later was but one example.

[John Mckillop]

It's the expression and politics of envy pure and simple. What would the world look like now without the British Empire ever having happened? History is history isn't It?

[Benjamin Hence]

Nice...i Missed watching videos from this channel, The current inflation got me so busy with work

[Sandra Thompson]

karen i appreciate' i will get to her right now

[Sandra Thompson]

karen Please how can i contact Olivia Renae Marksover? I want to invest with her too

[free David 1968]

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[Linda Lindsey]

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[Paul gallagher]

I traded with Olivia Renae Marksover as an amateur, her strategies are mind blowing, she is the best when it comes to investing your assets

[Brian Crowther]

They, The Indians, "wnated to fight so they coud keep what the British had built". I take issue with that as below. I think many Indians would. Briatin according to Chomsky and at least some current Indians have have heard, read, just plundered India and kept it poor. It would have progressed far better without the British ruling it. Chomsky gives egs.

[squid potato]

@Marcus in last 70 year india GDP per capita grew 20 time and zero time in 200 year of British savage colonialism

[Marcus]

'progress far better' yet 70 years later hundreds of millions of Indians still live in poverty. 'kept poor' like the working classes the world over ?

[bill bogg]

@Novelist The fact is China did considerably worse while having the same overall problem of a vast static peasant population. Outsiders had also long recognised its potential in the industriousness of its inhabitants. Released from the constraints imposed by its rulers including the Communists until the 1980s when it was forced to turn to the outside world it took off.

[Novelist]

@bill boggone example

[bill bogg]

Consider China which remained self- governing and had very similar problems . Did they do better ?

[Erik Scothron]

Truth Matters

[Phil O'Donoghue]

The New Zealand Labour government introduced a New Zealand history curriculum this year. Written by largely activist Māori academics it “places colonisation at the heart of the curriculum”. This is built on the presumption European British colonisation was all negative and brought no benefits. The curriculum for not include Polynesian colonisation (of the last land mass to be inhabited by humans since Homo sapiens left Southern Africa). This avoids “confronting uncomfortable truths” about endemic tribal warfare, slavery and widespread cannibalism well documented by eyewitness European observers from navigator Captain James Cook onward and including idealist Christian missionaries, Anglican, Wesleyan et al. The colonial office was loathe to extend imperial rule beyond the Australian colonies - until French explorers and navigators arrived in New Zealand. In fact the Treaty of Waitangi between the Crown ie Queen Victoria was signed just in time for French settlers to sail into Akaroa Harbour in the South Island to find the Union flag flying.

[Ó Luinneacháin]

@Brian Crowther Sam Neill actually born in Ireland.

[David Taylor]

There was only 1 Treaty signed. The Treaty of Waitangi in 1840. There was an earlier Alliance between some northern Maori Tribes who declared the country's independance. But they had no authority over other Tribes. Who rejected the Alliance! Therefore, no means of exercising authority across the whole country! It was this relative state of lawlessness and the on going tribal wars and disputes. That led to the Treaty of Waitangi with Britain. Instigated in the end, by Queen Victoria. The majority of Maori Chiefs and leaders saw the Treaty as a way of bringing this 'lawless' state of affairs to an end! And also increasing numbers of British settlers and citizens were arriving in NZ. Some Maori Tribes later rebelled against the Treaty. And they were punished, which included land confiscations. However a number of innocent Tribes also, (wrongly) had some of their land confiscated. This played a part in the land wars of the 1860s. Which resulted in later settlements and compensations. When the Treaty of Waitangi was signed. There were 2 other prospective colonisers emerging. France and just starting to take an interest in the Pacific at the time. The U.S. No doubt these factors also played a part in the Treaty of Waitangi.

[Brian Crowther]

yes and later 10,000 British troops were sent to bring a rebellion by Maories into line and another Treaty was signed. The Maories as far as the Oz ABC show I watched, with the NZ famous actor doing the presenetaion (of Jurrasic Park fame etc, superb actor, Sam....?) made a treaty with the British as they thought they had to make one with one or the other and thought it wiser to go with the Bristish as it would help them more than going with the French.

[Jujutrini]

He points out that under the ottoman empire a slave could rise to the heady heights of prime minister but does not point out how that would have been impossible under the the type of slavery the British Empire had. If one is going to compare then do so properly. Slavery was completely different under different empires. I wonder why he does not do this. 🤔

[Peter C.]

@Jujutrini There can only be one prime minister so that outcome is rare for everyone involved. These miracle outlier outcomes don't impress us because they're super rare. What life is for the common man (common slave), is what counts and it was better in the West.

[Jujutrini]

@Peter C. It is one thing to acquire freedom and a whole other ball game to rise to a position of immense power like a prime minister! The two are not comparable.

[Brian Crowther]

Because he is part of the establishment and an apologist for it.

[868 freeman]

@Vernon Goodey they won’t slaves it’s absolutely different compared to let’s say a Caribbean island where the people were taken from Africa branded with the name of the slave owners that still exist today …. And many more that’s definitely to much to type out

[Peter C.]

@Vernon Goodey Gandhi was very angry at the Brits in Natal, South Africa because they lumped him with black people. Apparently that was a major injustice for him.

[Paul Dillon]

Thanks

[zalacainbilbao]

The Spanish Empire was subjected to the 'Black Legend', by the Dutch and the British, it's ironic that the British are now complaining of getting unfairly criticised in the same manner as they did to others.

[George Hetty]

Let’s just stick with the facts when examining these various Empires, not ironic to attempt to deal with the facts.

[Peter C.]

100% spot on. Same as the lies spread about the Spanish Inquisition.

[Arl Tratlo]

can i ask, where is the empire again???

[Ó Luinneacháin]

Occupied six counties, Gibraltar, Diego Garcia, parts of Cyprus and a few more.

[Brian Crowther]

Good point, what was it really, so different in so many places.

[James R Arathoon]

Europe now has massive net immigration from young people seeking a better life. The choice is to either build walls or get involved in the management of countries that are run so badly that young people want to leave. Colonialism is one way of getting involved perhaps we need to find other ways.

[monkeymox]

Christ alive. The emphasis isn't put on European empires because it's some kind of concerted "assault" on the West. The emphasis is put there because an incredible amount of modern geopolitics, demographics and economics can only be understood in light of Western imperialism. The Zulu Empire might be a very important thing for people in (for example) South Africa to study, but it didn't exactly shape the modern world. No doubt at all that non-western imperialism has been just as bloody, brutal and greed-driven as Western imperialism, but what does studying those things do to inform the average western person about why things are as they are? Not all that much. Now yes, sometimes this focus on western imperialism does fail to take nuance into account. That is a bad thing. Sometimes the mistake is made of acting as if the west was purely evil and all the people they conquered were purely good. That is also bad. But it is _so_ easy to see, simply from an academic and pedagogical perspective, why this shift has happened, and it makes sense. It's partly, as I have said, out of expediency. It's also partly out of an academic desire to address a historic imbalance, since there was a time not all that long ago when imperialism was put on a pedestal with _at least_ as much bias as the modern narrative is accused of having. It's not because of some shadowy spooky leftist cabal trying to undermine the west. At the absolute most, the degree to which the left is responsible for not presenting a fully nuanced picture is out of a desire to _repair_ fractures within our own societies. Probably not the best way of going about it, admittedly, but (contrary to what many oddballs on the right seem to thing) leftists are not engaged in a deliberate attempt to make the world actively worse.

[Eric]

Take the discussion to the next level. Is pushback from whites happening and if so how big will it go does panic overcome sound civic humane policy in correcting this perceived wrong an injustice to whites that is going unheard today

[Mymind]

No debate. British Empire was good to the world. Certainly better than almost any other Empire.

[squid potato]

Then try it again this time asia ruling Britain?

[PeterS]

Exactly. Under a Han Chinese Empire or a Turkish Empire or a German Empire. Omg.

[Peter C.]

Roman Empire. Without that, there would have been no British empire.

[Golden.Lights.Twinkle]

We didn't sacrifice virgins like the Mayas, Incas and Aztecs.

[Roberta Sirgutz]

It's merely the SIZE of the British Empire, and how recent de-colonization has been occurring.

[trev moffatt]

We need to make a distinction between imperialism and colonialism. Some aspects of British imperialism may be deemed progressive bringing feudal backwaters into the modern world, given for all the confiscation of resources, and gunboat diplomacy, capitalism was superior to feudalism. However, colonialism, that is moving in white settlers at the expense of indigenous peoples, can never be progressive, as there is zero benefit for the victims, only benefits for the colonizers. In fact one might argue that colonialism was a form of feudalism outsourced to the developing world. Colonialism often worse than the primitive societies that were overthrown. For instance, we should think ourselves lucky that the Romans, the Anglo Saxons and the Normans were not genocidal race supremacists but rather ruled by assimilation.

[Riya Ali]

Excellent point. The British empire indeed did bring us into the modern era.

[Youtube channel]

The British Empire has positively benefited the world. The legacy of English Law, democracy, education, a civil service to run a modern state, industrialisation, a common unifying language, even international sport. And the obvious one, abolishing slavery. We all know the phrase “what did the Roman’s ever do for us” That applies even more where the British are concerned.

[pentz1]

1) The first country to abolish slavery was Haiti, written in its laws....it was not Britain. 2) If the British empire was largely a thing of good, its main claim being that it abolished slavery...wasn't colonialism just a continuation of slavery with the teachings of the bible attached?

[sedekiman r]

The British colonies did not use slaves.

[Brian Crowther]

Yes and what about the enslavement of the British working class in the factires etc. Its still going on and the fights are still being faught. I hope the workers win.

[pentz1]

@Golden.Lights.Twinkle As with your balls deprived friend...please respond directly to the points I made

[Peter C.]

Sublimis Deus 1537.

[Robbie Wizz]

@Golden.Lights.Twinkle and why is that.. 😮 What have the west done since napoleon ?

[TheCommon Word]

Subtle and intelligent.

[Adnaan Sheikh]

Colonization contributed to global modernization. Before the Brits came to India, the masses their lived relatively primitively. The Brits built India's infrastructure still in use today.

[Larry Buchannan]

@Golden.Lights.Twinkle Britain has an apalng histry. Britain waged wars against Australian aboriginals and nz maori. Britain waged 12 wars in the Indian subcontinent Britain waged 3 wars against afghanistan We did the right thing by rebelling against britain.

[The Singher]

India's poverty rate went from 18% to 50% under British rule

[Abhishek Bastiray]

Imagine being brown and falling for this British propaganda

[Brian Crowther]

Rubbish see chomsky on this

[Westwoodii]

@Bryan O neill Their national team has certainly given the recognised top tier cricketing nations a run for their money, on numerous occasions.

[Anthony Jemmott]

Hope this presentation does not become ammunition in the polarization that forces people not to listen to the there side. I don't see him as championing those who dismiss the other side . As someone who would be dismissed as left,progressive or woke, I see a genuine attempt here by him to be fair and,without having read his book I hope what he has to say will be heard and pondered.

[Paul Dillon]

Yes

[Abdoulie Manneh]

"The motive of the massive migration was to seek a better life, due to famine, religious prosecutions, etc." But then he said the motive then is different from the motive of migration via the English channel. What is the difference? Everyone who comes to the UK came there for a better life, due to famine in their homes, wars caused by the US/UK, political and religious prosecutions, etc.

[TheTraveller20081]

@John Power agreed, your transcription is precise. He did indeed note that the motivations of mass-migration outward then were essentially the same as those trying to cross into the UK today. I don't agree with him entirely, however, as those heading out from the UK were not seeking to join a hand-out economy, nor a criminal underworld as a significant proportion of those heading to the UK today are doing.

[John Power]

31:02 he states the motives were not dis-similar to the motives today ie same

[endintiers]

The slave trade flourished right up to the early 1900s in Queensland and Northern West Australia. So, while officially banned it was socially and judicially accepted.

[Eric]

Australia uses islanders for agri labour in 21C. they are good workers and enjoy and profit from it

[Dauharry Rahman]

Give credit to ehere it is due. It is true that the abolition of slavery is greatly due to the British gov. and people. BTW I'm not British.

[dantescave1]

They just moved slavery business offshore & continued profiting.

[Mark Axworthy]

The bottom line is population. If British rule was so bad, why did local populations in its colonies usually triple under British rule? (Ireland is a special case, because the island of Ireland was colonised, but in the Empire [where 90% of people of Irish descent now live] the Irish were among the colonisers.)

[squid potato]

@Mark Axworthy north korea population is also increasing

[Mark Axworthy]

@e Yes to what? The original post or the previous post?

[e]

Yes.

[Jujutrini]

That is YOUR bottom line.

[Chexsum]

uk is defcon zero

[Mike Smith]

The British should be thanked and compensated for what we achieved against the slave trade and the sacrifices we made. African slavery has nothing to do with racism as they even supplied and sold their own people into slavery. It was an easy resource to exploit and many countries exploited it.

[Vivo Audio]

The slave owners were compensated to the tune of £400 billion - a debt so large that a loan had to be taken out, a loan that was only recently paid off by the British taxpayer. The slaves were thrown under the bus.

[Jujutrini]

The trans-Atlantic slave trade had rather a lot to do with racism however.

[Richard Miller]

I am from Yorkshire. I want comoensation for what they did to my people in 1069-70 where they murdered and displaced 85% of my people.

[King Naga]

Man, the British never really coped with going from the most powerful, important country on earth to a failing regional power, did it?

[Courtilz]

He just tries to argue against slave morality

[George Hetty]

And yet the UK is still such a draw for ex colonial people as well as every other nationality?

[Marcus]

Never realised the BE created such ENVY

[Peter C.]

Important is relative. For the European Continent Britain was not important. Britain ruled by dividing European powers but if they united they would have easily defeated her.

[The Hound]

@dantescave1 Well that's a strong counter argument!

[Sam Carena]

This discussion was complète and utter tosh

[Tony T]

The British empire was massive and it stopped slavery

[Cherie Peden]

If the British cannot withstand criticism of an empire that doesn't even exist any longer, what kind of a country are they. He is politising empire, he is not strengthening it.

[Larry Buchannan]

@MarktheMole Britain has an apalng histry. Britain waged wars against Australian aboriginals and nz maori. Britain waged 12 wars in the Indian subcontinent Britain waged 3 wars against afghanistan We did the right thing by rebelling against britain.

[MarktheMole]

The British, in general, have no 'problem' in a fair discussion that emphasizes both the good and less good aspects of the Empire - the good/best being an end to seaborne slavery globally, a massive increase in basic and university education, global trade across and between continents, a huge increase in public health and a decrease in poverty and isolation, and the creation of many new industries. Perhaps the biggest was the suppression of inter-ethnic and inter-tribal conflicts, often genocidal, that were the norm before the British arrived in Africa and south Asia - a scourge that exploded again across both continents - after the Empire ended.

[Josh licks]

Loads of countries are better off than we are. The tories have eviscerated our nation. I would leave if I could, and I wouldn't be able to raise a family here

[Benedict cowell]

It is astonishing that one criticises the EU to which every nation applies but the British Empire is marked by slavery, racism, and the EU is a better vindication of the West, not the British Empire

[Basil Al-Nakeeb]

Pity the book did not cover any of the substantial moral issues like decimating natives in America, Australia, and elsewhere. It should have covered the potato famine in Ireland. It should have covered the two Opium Wars against China. And so on and so forth.

[Susan Mulvaney]

The targeters are always those with Irish blood.

[Miriam Wells]

@e Sadly that’s true, the ones at the top did.

[e]

Lots of Irish joined the rulers.

[Miriam Wells]

Because we always fought their wars!!

[Ó Luinneacháin]

“Targeters”?

[54tisfaction]

It takes a Theologian to try to defend the wrongs of History with a long diatribe of whatabout-isms and personal anecdotes. It takes The Telegraph to try to sell this tripe as somewhat based on academia.

[GeoMac]

Listen tae UK plopstain

[Brian Crowther]

PostScript, Why did NIgel choose Balfour (I think that was the guy he said) who promised Isreal for the Jews as a good eg of British moarl behaviour. This is a dreadful eg that totally undermines his assertion pf morality and this as a eg of good morality of the British Empire. Laurence Of Arabia had fought with the Arabs to undermine the grip the Ottman Empire had on the region, he & they blew things up, won some major battles and set the scence for British victory there. Larence had on behalf of The British Empire pormised that the Paletsinains would get indepenence and a nation there not the Jews. This was before they won and Balfour knowing this promised it to the Jews. This was a disgusting peice of treachery by the British and like the trashing of the Treaty with the EU a total disregrad by the British for the rule of international law. This is a terrible eg and its use by Nigel undermines the thesis Nigel is making, the Britsh Empire on balance is a good thing. IT was and is not and the world would be better off if it had never existed, providing others didn't take its place. Unless I have interpreted what Nigel was saying eg he may have been saying isn't it nice that the British respected the ancient owners of the land and gave it back to them, the Jews. But this is a slight of hand as Nigel must know about Laurence's deal with the Arabs. The Arabs are the ones who did the fighting, they are the ones who helped the British and the Bristish stabbed them in the back. Churchill according to amate of mine who loves Churchill and reads up on him, said Arabs were lazy and good for nothing in terms of work etc. So was this racsism as expressed by Churchill as representative of the British establishment the reason the Arabs did not get what was promised for their acrfice in hard work and lives? Highly likley I would say. I am sorry, while NIgel has some good points and some correct nuance, overall I don't thonk he is credible. I am left wondering f that is because he is Christian, this ususally addles people's brains.

[ozgipsy]

Fantastic interview. Colonialism, particularly English and German types, were a massive net good for the world.

[Liberty&Nonintervention]

Excellent but, I think also think we've missed that these people were religious! They didn't have post Darwininan understanding of the world. Many believed in Christ, salvation & spreading the gospel.

[Omar W]

Every nonwhite person should celebrate the world wars given that these wars broke the back of Europe. Germany’s wars against France and Britain bled these empires white in terms of lives, fiscal capacity and willingness to withstand massive casualties. It was this that brought colonialism to an end not moral progress. The British were killing Kenyans by the thousands after ww2. The Dutch were killing Indonesians by the hundreds of thousands after ww2 and the French killed Algerians and Vietnamese by the millions after WW2. They did not learn any moral lessons from WW2 but had lost the ability to stomach the costs & casualties necessary for the maintenance of colonial rule. The colonized won freedom from Europeans who would have kept them in chains for a thousand years if they had the power to do so. Europe destroyed itself twice and thanks to that we are free. 🎉

[Ben Ricketts]

Some truth in that

[R.D. Hamel]

Attacks on the British empire… otherwise known as the historical record. Why exactly is it that the telegraph is so keen to tell historians what they can and cannot say?

[Courtilz]

Irony

[Milan Vanik]

Attacks on the empire or retaliations?

[Golden.Lights.Twinkle]

The results are the same.

[Klaus-Dieter Koch]

They leave no stone unturned to feed the public with odd news.

[S Hamster]

Shame on the cowardly Bloomsbury.

[GeoMac]

And racism

[Andy Davies]

Its almost as if there is a concerted effort to remove national identity, we need to past to learn from it so the same mistakes are not made in the future, by removing it and denying it, we are condemning us to repeat it in the future, I don't think the UK alone is seeing this, slowly over time this will happen to all the other western countries then the eastern ones stripping their identities too, they are working from largest to smallest.. are we heading towards a 1 world government?

[dantescave1]

So knowing the truth, flaws & all does NOT strip any nation or culture of their identity! What a bizarre idea.

[Brian Crowther]

The west? Asserts Putin and China are not the west. The european part of Russia is the west? Its economic and political model is western. China has communism as its ideology, this is a western ideology. Marx did much of his resaerch based on the mills of Lancashire with his mate Engles who owned one. Communism as per Marx comes out of western theory of demorcarcy that led to the French Revolution, liberty, equality and fraternity. It is the bnit that concentrates on fraternity, this is western. The telegraph does not like this fact and in that regard publishes much that undermines democracy eg neo liberal ideas, based soley on the liberty part. So the thesis that Russia and China are not west is silly. They under communism totally took on a western ideology and Putin's capitalism does the same. That other emoires had salvery does not make the use of t OK. Just as its bad for the British Empire it is bad for those as well. It is false to say that people who criticise slavery only iuse it to bash the British EMpire, just rubbish.

[Telford Exotics]

West is best babbbbbbyyyyyy

[Andre Koerber]

The biggest slave owner in the history of mankind was Mansa Musa, the King of the Mali Kingdom in the midst of the 14th century. He possessed only for his own use (not in his whole kingdom) between 12000 and 13000 slaves. He has been, by the way, the richest man that has existed so far. He owned about 400 billion Dollars in nowadays currency. The story of the "poor Blacks" is a leftish myth. African kingdoms or tribes fought against each other for centuries and sold their war prisoners to Europeans or/and Arabs. Charles Taylor, Mobutu, Idi Amin and Robert Mugabe were "very nice" Blacks, too...not to forget Papa Doc and Baby Doc in Haiti. What about Louis Farrakhan who declared the superiority of the black race? A "nice guy", too, of course...??

[Brian Crowther]

The slave trade by Britain accounted for about 20 million slaves. SO your argument is silly. two wrongs dont makje a right anyway. Slavery is bad always bad.

[cheiftain]

How many police shooting that year ? Education is no cure for ignorance

[Billder]

3 in the uk for 2022

[Alastair Archibald]

So Lenin was anticolonial? What was the USSR?

[Sam]

Britain killed 4 million Indians in Bengal in 1943 by imposing a famine