Onkyo Integra Receiver goes into protection

[@TrevorsBench]

That multi channel receiver has several things working against it. A driver board that dissipates too much heat, is poorly laid out so it cooks it's own capacitors. Also, the board interconnects are pretty much guaranteed to have cracked solders sooner or later. A proper overhaul of that driver board will buy you another 10 or so years of service. JUNK!

[@12voltvids]

It's a bad design and it was installed in an unventilated cabinet. Like so many system integrators it is all about aesthetics. Customers don't want to see equipment they don't want to hear equipment running they don't want fans running they just want everything neat in a cabinet with closed doors and a remote extender so they can operate it. What do you think's going to happen when you enclose something like this in a closed space without ventilation of course it's going to overheat why do you think the board was all burnt like that. If this unit was sitting as it was designed on a top shelf with open air above it it would not have overheated the way that it did. I see this all the time and it's always caused by users not installing equipment as explicitly laid out in the owner's manual because it doesn't meet their requirement for aesthetics.

[@starmc26]

Dissipating heat is a good thing.

[@mrnmrn1]

@@12voltvids I can tell you it's not the cabinet's fault. It's a bad thermal design. I know because a collegaue has a much newer, very expensive Onkyo AV amp, and it has a similar driver board design: single sided phenolic board stuffed with power transistors, except that one has mostly SMD stuff on it. His driver board was soot black from the heat like this one, full of drifted resistors and an open driver transistor. The amp was always sitting on an open shelf. It had a failure I've never seen before, and that was the main cause of all problems that started the thermal runaway: the SMD glue under the resistors turned conductive from the heat, and screwed up the biasing of the driver stages. At least a dozen 1/8W through-hole resistors were way out of tolerance, and many more on the edge of their 5% tolarance. Idle currents of the output pairs were all over the place, from 0.5x to 20x the rated value, and it was very hard to dial in to the tight tolerance what the service manual wants, because the trimpot has a huge range, they should have installed a multiturn trimpot. After this, the owner installed two silent PC fans blowing the driver board, this was almost 2 years ago, still running fine. On top of the repair, we had to resolder the whole driver board, every single solder joint had to be re-soldered with fresh solder, than cleaned off with a desoldering pump to remove the lead free junk, and re-soldered once again with SnPb solder. It was a nightmare. Oh, and of course everything had to be removed from that bloody thing, because the main board also had some bad solder joints, guess where: on the driver board connectors...

[@12voltvids]

@@mrnmrn1 agree 100%. Bad design just like everything Onkyo made

[@Bill_N_ATX]

I’ve got an Integra multichannel receiver that’s about 10 years old and doing fine. Of course, I’m not an idiot. I’ve got the front channels out to a separate amplifier. That amp is a real 350 watt a channel into 4 ohms. So it has no problem driving my 6 ohm speakers. So all the receiver is driving is the surrounds and back channels. They never get driven all that hard. It’s in the middle of my enclosed rack but has a 5inch quiet fan blowing air from outside the rack right up its butt. It’s about time to relegate it to a bedroom since it doesn’t do all the new tricks but it’s worked fine since it was treated right. Give them air and they’ll be fine.

[@marka1986]

Some of the lead free solder blends OK with regular solder some not very well.

[@andyboy13]

Did they revise this at one point in time? Dealing with my dead one right now (cat hopped on top and puked into this exact area of the unit. Seems to be mostly the board on the bottom that this bosrd mounts to.) Mine's an integra DTR 30.2 Back on topic. My unit has a 120mm fan echausting right above all this.

[@Barbarapape]

Onkyo receivers send a shiver down my spine, they always bounce on you and the customer looses confidence in both the brand and your ability to do a lasting repair. I now refuse to repair them, you have to spend far too much time redoing the bad joints, i refuse to use lead free solder, luckily i still have a good stock of leaded solder. I would give it away with the caveat that if it fails again and it will, to put it out of it's misery and join the other Onkyo's where they belong!

[@12voltvids]

I might even use it here because I'm using an Onkyo right now that is pretty old. I'll run it for a while and see if it continues to work.

[@Barbarapape]

@@12voltvids I would be nervous about selling it to anyone, giving it to a person that understands the risks of more issues might be a safer option, or as you have said keep for a while and see how it goes.

[@12voltvids]

@@Barbarapape well these things would not really be worth much to sell anyway. give away is about the real option for something like this. But regardless whether I sell it to keep it or give it away before anything happens with it it will be on extensive test for weeks. I don't anticipate future problems if the thing is properly ventilated but in this case it went right back into the same stack of equipment that it came out of and I know where it came from I know what it's in was in a small cabinet that's completely closed in with an infrared repeater to control it with no ventilation because I know the house that came from. I've had to replace your cable box twice because it's burnt up and I keep telling them the same thing don't close the cabinet it's got to be kept open for ventilation but they don't like to see the equipment so they keep it closed off. I can guarantee their new one is going to cook as well but you know you can't fix stupid as the saying goes. It's the same reason they don't have a fan because she doesn't want to see or hear it. I had a friend that was married to someone like that needless to say he wasn't very happy while he was with her.

[@gower1973]

Got a basic Yamaha receiver 50w, had it more than twenty years, still going strong never had an issue with it, hasn’t got any of the new dangled technology just solid and dependable and it wasn’t even expensive.

[@robinsattahip2376]

Cook those capacitors. Onkyo sold off a lot of its assets and the rest is in bankruptcy. Sharp is still making products branded with that name in Malaysia.

[@julerobb1]

Speaking of av receivers, any chance you could replace the HDMI board on my Denon? I personally don't feel confident mucking around it's insides, as I've already replaced the antennas and things.

[@marka1986]

Aren't you going to replace all the caps on the driver board for good measure. Just kidding.

[@HF-7DXM-6DXW-12]

LOL

[@dustinrue]

probably 3d print some new ones, I heard

[@Discretesignals]

Recappers wet dream

[@rogertyler3237]

From The Looks Of That Circuit Board It Looks Like It Needs Replacing

[@gavincurtis]

*W E L L B A K E D*

[@theheadplant7989]

Those poor capacitors must be under a lot of stress.

[@MikinessAnalog]

Doesn't excessive heat dry out their electrolyte?

[@davesdigitaldomain]

you're right about those capacitors but this technician didn't even bother to check them, very poor repair. No wonder it came back

[@Watcher3223]

@@davesdigitaldomain It came back because the owners continued to use the receiver without adequate ventilation. You can't expect a repair to last if you continue using the unit in a way that can cause the failure to happen again. And if the receiver was brought back to life without replacing the capacitors...

[@keithkneeland6849]

@@davesdigitaldomain Did you even watch the video? It had Nothing to do with caps 🤣

[@davesdigitaldomain]

@@keithkneeland6849 do you not even understand repairs those capacitors were were certainly stressed with the heat. What a stupid comment

[@gabrielguadarrama8701]

I have two of those with issues. Nightmare layout!!! Just ended up salvaging all the output transistor and the main bug caps and onto the trash can

[@12voltvids]

They are headaches. I would know. Ibuae an Onkyo.

[@bealssnow9551]

what would a job like this cost?

[@DavidJohnson69-qq2bo]

I have weaned myself off of Onkyo receivers, having moved to prepro's, and then eventually to a McIntosh C45. I just purchased a 1992 Onkyo P-304 2-channel preamp, which weights almost as much as a receiver, but just 2 channels, and analogue audio only. What are your opinion of these 1990's Onkyo preamplifiers, and the M-503/508 power amps. So far, they are sounding far superior to these modern receivers, which are just garbage.

[@MikinessAnalog]

I love their direct drive turntables, but I wish they would make one that also does 16 and 78 as well.

[@gavincurtis]

ROHS puts more stuff in landfills even quicker.

[@12voltvids]

No electronics goes to landfill here. All recycled.

[@tedbell4416]

Why don't they put fans in these receivers?

[@12voltvids]

Because they are cheap, and then people hide these away in cabinets where there is NO ventilation at all. You can tell by the discoloration that this unit has overheated multiple times and the yamaha they replaced it will will also likely have a short life.

[@starmc26]

Fans cause noise, which is undesirable for home theater and "pure audio" enthusiasts.

[@jewllake]

can you still buy lead solder? I'm sure if you can't it's probably only in California.

[@12voltvids]

Available here in Canada.

[@starmc26]

Yes, on Amazon.

[@12voltvids]

@Filthy Peasant yeah kester is good the problem is it's not as easy to find at the shops I deal with. I tried this Chinese 60/40 solder that I've been using for the last number of years and found it to be every bit as good as the kester I was using before. 6337 takes a little more heat to get it going and I find that the joints aren't quite as good a little more brittle. The higher concentration LED keeps the solder fairly soft it has a better chance of not fracturing due to thermal expansion in differences in the metals has the more brittle 63/37. Though that free stuff however is just absolute crap

[@michaelturner4457]

That board does look really baked.

[@chrismckibben8684]

Where u located i have a reel to reel player needs recap and service dorcorder brand

[@12voltvids]

Left coast Canada.

[@chrismckibben8684]

@@12voltvids i have dorcorder reel deck needs tune up i like c repair n future vidio something u can help out with

[@Sans_Solo_]

Dave wondering if you ever did arm-wrestled before....you appear to have some meaty forearms.....Big fan of your fellow Canadian Devon Larratt

[@12voltvids]

weight lifting daily

[@Sans_Solo_]

@@12voltvids Yes that's good Dave weight lifting will cure a lot of old age problems (I am 49...and consider that old age) I weight lift as well. What about arm wrestling?

[@12voltvids]

@@Sans_Solo_ no just weights and elliptical trainer.

[@Sans_Solo_]

@@12voltvids Do you know of Devon? just wondering...he has pretty good utube following numbers

[@12voltvids]

@@Sans_Solo_ no but I don't really watch KZbin much.

[@vwestlife]

Junk.

[@Synthematix]

Onkyo amps do run hot, great sounding amps but why the hell didnt they fit an upward firing fan? anyway unfortunately onkyo went bankrupt last month.

[@12voltvids]

They run hot because they are biased as a push pull class a. Just like Technics new class a, yalaha natural sound and Sony legato linear. This keeps the transistors in heavy conduction even at low volumes. The bias decreases with higher volume.

[@Synthematix]

@@12voltvids My technics newClassA amp gets red hot between 60 and 75celcius, i had to fit a fan to it, but doing so makes a buzzing sound come through the speakers at medium volumes, dont know how to rectify the problem

[@12voltvids]

@@Synthematix ac fan that is not drawing power from the audio supply.

[@Synthematix]

@@12voltvids Ah ok cheers, wondering if theres a capacitor i could put across the terminals, its a dc 8cm fan at 12v

[@12voltvids]

Fans are noisey and prone to failure. Look at all the Technics amps that had a fan and the fan failed and soon after so did the IPM.

[@EastAngliaUK]

I remember this one

[@1967250s]

You'd think they could squeeze a small fan into that big case, eh?

[@HF-7DXM-6DXW-12]

awe man failed again

[@12voltvids]

Past the 30 day warranty.😋

[@davesdigitaldomain]

@@12voltvids so it's not a fail if it passes 30 days warranty! I would have put that board under the microscope and checked every single joint then I would have ESR tested those capacitors because they're just about to fail any time due to the heat. Very poor repair. But saying that it might last another 30 days.

[@12voltvids]

@@davesdigitaldomain I made 30.00 on first repair over 90 days ago. Would you spend 3 hours testing every part and putting board under microscope for that. When it came in the first time the owner said here us 30.00 take a look at it. The first time i pulled the main board and looked it it. It was fine. Pulled the driver and found a few connections. Sure I could have spent 2 hours resoldering the entire board but not for 30 bucks. Can't day oh by the way i resoldered the entire board you owe me 100 because they would have said keep it. Also one has no way of knowing how long something will last. In the 20 years i worked in the business warranty on work was always 90 days on new parts 30 days on labour and only for work done. If i repaired the tuner on a TV and the vertical failed 3 weeks later it was not warranty. That was industry standard practice.

[@12voltvids]

@@TD75 The tv was a rush job. Parts would have taken longer to obtain then they were willing to pay. They wanted it done right away because the lady couldn't take a bath without the tv in her bathroom working. (I'm dead serious about that one.)

[@12voltvids]

@Filthy Peasant I kept doing it until 2003 by that point I was done I was done with the entire service business was so fed up with dealing with customers that wanted everything done under warranty wanted everything done for free wanted everything done dirt cheap. I work for an asshole who would do that he would discount work for customers. I would charge out $85 labor for example on a major repair and he would reduce it to 60 to keep a customer happy of course I'm paid just a percentage of that so by the owner of the shop reducing the cost he's reducing what he's paying me and then justifying it saying that he's making less as well because he paid me 50% after labor cost. So on an $85 repair my cat would have been around maybe just over $42. that would have been for probably an hour of my time but the boss would just give people deals and drop the price to 60 or sometimes 50 so now my pay is $25 or $30.

[@carltechmobile3983]

Looks like the Rogers outage has not affected you.

[@12voltvids]

Hacked? I'm on Telus, no network problems on my end.

[@zx8401ztv]

Hmm nice well cooked pcbs, a very stupid design or done on purpose?. Done on purpose, designed to fail. :-(

[@Watcher3223]

The design is most likely the result of trying to make it as cheaply as possible. However, in this unit's defense, you can't expect it to continue operating without issues if it's used with inadequate ventilation, thus allowing it to overheat.

[@zx8401ztv]

@@Watcher3223 The manufacturer knew it would run hotter than spec, they should have assisted the convection effect with a fan or more vents. A bad habit manufactures have is putting electrolitic capacitors too close to hot heatsinks (ive seen it a lot). Or a poor heatsink that lets the semiconductor get a lot hotter than it should. Ooow don't i moan a lot lol :-D

[@Watcher3223]

@@zx8401ztv You can have fans, but you still need ventilation so the fans can have cooler air to circulate through to carry heat away. That's the problem with having a power amp within an enclosed installation without adequate air circulation; if the fans just move hot air through, then the unit is not going to be cooled all that well. The engineering of this particular receiver may not be the best, but even the finest equipment can have problems with overheating if its placement doesn't take into account the need for adequate air circulation. The manufacturer can do all it can to account for how the user will utilize the equipment, but there are limits and it's ultimately the responsibility of the user to know what to do and what not to do with the equipment to help prolong service life. While their engineering decisions may or may not be a factor, you can't really blame the manufacturer for what happens as a result of neglect and abuse.

[@fulwell1]

Onkyo amps are garbage, pure and simple.