Audio Device Controls - Why Do Developers Refuse to Use Them?

[@FrozenCharlottes]

Years ago I went nuts trying to figure out why I couldn't get those controls in Logic to work with any of my audio interfaces. I finally realized that it was after a long long time that it was because no audio interface manufacturers utilize this feature. I eventually just hid it

[@TheMixClub]

Well Said.

[@SonnyGreenwichJr]

I didn't even know this existed! This would be so very handy indeed! Come on guys (interface makers)! 🔥🧨💪🏽🤠👍🏽🧨🔥

[@silas3181]

Thanks for bringing light to this!!! You're absolutely spot on, and hopefully some manufacturers will hear you out and start implementing these EASY integrations asap.

[@bjornfrankl7916]

So glad I got the Element 88. It's essential an extension of Logic Pro. Everything I want to do with it is controlable from within the DAW and the Device Controls. It stands behind my desk and I've got all connections hard-wired for my work. 4 microphones, bass guitar, 2 electric guitars - all ready to be be recorded. An ideal setup for what I do. 🙂

[@decarrogreene8429]

Universal Audio should take full advantage of this feature because it is very annoying to always switch between The Console app and Logic Pro. Or they should find a way to intergrate the console app in to Logic.

[@APaclin]

That means you're not using it right, all of these features are straight on the Apollo.

[@blasegangbeats1865]

There is a console plugin to help mitigate that

[@mrpinguin9189]

you could use luna

[@vibranceaudio4806]

Agreed

[@TheWolfCub71]

Totally agree. Would definitely make some particular parts of workflow much easier. Thanks for making some noise around this. I hope we are successful in getting some change to happen.

[@jimhall5393]

I blame Apogee for a lot of this. Until recently I was using a 12 year old Ensemble Thunderbolt but and all of the input control section in Logic worked perfectly. It was a highly touted Apogee “exclusive” feature. Then they released the incredibly ugly, conceptually flawed Element series that unsurprisingly stiffed in the marketplace. Next Minute they release the Symphony Desktop with much hoopla. I bought one…..but the direct button didn’t work in Logic even though it had its own section in the manual. Apogee said it was “coming” update followed update with added features like a special plugin that models the sound of Bob Clearmountain’s nose-hair and yet another Pultec emulation to join the thousands already existing. But no direct button. Then a revised manual came out with the whole Logic input feature removed. I believe that Apogee had an exclusive on this feature and blew the opportunity due to their complete disconnect from their customer base. I now have left Apogee behind. So sick of them tacking Bob’s brand onto silly features. Such a shame cos the Direct button was so handy.

[@rlbink2498]

Am curious if any of the companies you tagged on this came forward. This is MUCH needed.

[@MyronDavismd]

This is good. Perhaps the Apple's hiring of Dave Tremblay (former UA exec.) will result in some needed updates!

[@johnpaulrabusa5507]

Totally agree!!! Aside from Apogee interfaces, the closest thing I’ve seen are Audient Evo interfaces using device controls, but they only allow for preamp gain control (not phantom power or monitoring selection). Hopefully this video gets company’s attention

[@JamTime007]

Yes, Audient Evo interfaces support preamp gain 👍🏻

[@kirkegodfrey414]

i think its a DEAL between Apogee and Apple.

[@rossdonald5026]

Absolutely agree Chris........ would love to have that facility.

[@pianoplayeh]

Couldn't agree more! Also adding that there are so many controllers that integrate perfectly with Ableton, why are there comparatively so few that integrate nicely with Logic?

[@Tommyalpaca]

Ableton is such a shit daw too😭😂

[@MisterLongoBR]

This is surely one of the main features I'd love to see developers integrate into Logic workflow asap, makes everything faster and easier 🙏

[@JeffyG]

Great point, Chris! Other than Apogee, I’ve be watching and waiting for years.

[@MajorGRecording]

Makes a lot of sense! Get with it interface manufacturers!!!

[@number6photo]

I own the Apogee Ensemble and Element interfaces, and still prefer using Apogee's control software rather than the built-in controls in Logic, usually because it's important for the performer to hear what they need to hear in their headphones, and that means I usually want to build or tweak a custom mix level, independent of the channel's recording gain, for each mic input channel. To create those mix levels, I need to use the audio device's mixer software, so I already have the mixer software app open and it only creates confusion to make some interface adjustments in Logic, and make other adjustments in the mixer software. Also, from a developer's perspective, unless Pro Tools, and ALL the other DAW developers use the same API as Apple/Logic, it's just more software development and validation work that has to be maintained (e.g., every time Apple makes a new OS or Logic software release, the audio interface developer needs to do more testing to ensure compatibility, and/or support users when they are having issues). There isn't enough demand for this feature (maybe because of the reasons I mentioned above), and the extra work/maintenance just further reduces the ROI for the developer.

[@CarlosKTCosta]

I had no idea this existed and now this is a feature that I’ll be looking for when looking at interfaces and even outboard digitally controlled preamps. EDIT: I’ll put it here, if Focusrite or Audient implement this I’ll replace my 18i20 gen2, otherwise I’ll just have to keep saving for an Apogee interface as I’m doing already

[@magick1969]

Moving soon to an Antelope Synergy Core 32 and since I only use external analog gear for mics I have zero interest in this feature. What I have found on my Apogee Ensemble is that at +4dB line level I still don't have a completely clean and bypassed AI preamp and it spills noise into the results. I run u87ai -> Avalon Vt-737sp->Rupert Neve Designs MBC. I'd first complain about the fact 3rd Party OEMs have nearly all not adopted Core Audio AU3.0.

[@nogoogleplus]

Ahh you got me excited for direct monitoring on my symphony mkii…I went totally go try it and there was no direct monitoring…only phase and +4/-10 selector worked…(I don’t have the symphony mic pres though)….then caught you mentioned that later in the vid….bummer, that would’ve been nice

[@tutubeos]

I agree Chris. Why do you think this is happening? Is there maybe sort of a marketing “reason” behind their choice?

[@ProAudioIQ]

YES please!!!! I use Focusrite Red8Pre with Logic and Pro Tools. Used an Apogee Quartet and LOVED this preamp control in Logic with the Quartet 'till I moved up to 7.1.4 Atmos for film and music and had to upgrade to a Red8Pre with RedNet R1 for Atmos control. I mix TV and film full-time as a career and use Logic for all composition. PLEASE Focusrite...Add this functionality to your Pro Red series!! Thank you!

[@StuffYouMightLike]

Agreed. As an owner of several Focusrite interfaces (2i2 3rd gen, 18i20 3rd gen and Octopre 3rd gen), it's frustrating.

[@JeffHinnendael]

Always been with Apogee and this is just one of the many reasons why. Apogee rules. Logic Pro Rules.

[@contemplativecomposer5983]

I would like this feature also. It is so useful and, as you say, offers a number of benefits for tracking. Similar issues with manufacturers taking almost a year to release a control software to their hardware units. These companies are investing in big sales, bulk orders and other things. When what a lot of us users want is full utilisation of our DAWs features

[@andrew6889-p5c]

Yeah, I agree with this. Also, why can’t focusrite put the on-off switch on the front of the box? It’s literally the knob everyone uses the most and it’s hidden at the back. Why???

[@legitorecords5701]

Audient id14 has a button where you can use the volume knob to scroll wherever the mouse is. Handy for fine tuning plug ins, channel volume or scrolling through samples, but a button equivalent to a mouse click would be a welcome edition.

[@michaelbutler2312]

wow, didn't know how lucky i am having the element 46 and using the direct aspect every time! question: chris, if you are talking to the manufacturers, what do they say when you ask about it? all well and good if we contact them but you have easy contact. thanks, love your channel!

[@pb3662]

Do you have a list of interfaces that work well with logic supporting this?

[@michaelnieberg6278]

Does the actual Apogee Duet 3 support this integration? As a Logic Pro user I really want to take the advantage of controlling the digital preamps directly from the DAW. But on the Apogee website I only found an article about the Duet 2 and some other older interfaces.

[@bmsmusician]

Always thought that only Apogee was privileged to implement that in their products. I recently switched my old failing Duet to a Motu ultralite and I do miss those controls.

[@ilPeval]

You are absolutely right. For Example I own a Scarlet 8i6 3rd Gen and I don't have the Audio Device Control available within Logic Pro X. This sounds quite stupid to me. Many thanks for your Video. Best regards.

[@velanche]

A long time ago, I used to own an audio interface from Tuscan called the Firemen. It was a Firewire audio interface. It was the only audio interface I owned where the onboard volume control directly worked with CoreAudio. When I turn the volume up and down, I could see feedback on-screen, much like the built-in audio on Macs. The other audio interfaces I owned, including the current one, try and use the knob to control the gain, and the screen shows an audio icon with a slash. It really should be consistent. Here's hoping that devs are watching and might go better, but then I think maybe there are reasons why they are hesitant. Apple hasn't always been known for being communicative with developers, especially when feedback and response, a two-way communication, is essential. Maybe if these features do exists for developers to use, then it's up to Apple to influence them. Otherwise, these features can go away one day, without the developers knowledge, or the user. This has happened before with promising features. Glad you got a dialogue going, Chris.

[@isaiahsims__]

You are 100% right!!

[@Sandeep-jx5gc]

long time ago i tried to use this feature with my focusrite, then i realised its only available for selected devices, i hope focusrite will bring an update with this integration.

[@rodrigogarciamz]

I used to have that feature with my ensemble thunderbolt but with my new symphony desktop it is not available. That’s very odd

[@adamhaymanmusic]

I used to have an apogee that worked with this feature. I definitely miss being able to do that :(

[@ImpliedMusic]

valid rant. 100%

[@MrNickDrummer]

Do you know if the Presonus 24R pre-amp controls will also show up in Logic? That would be ideal.

[@92kris]

My audio has been cutting in and out on logic while trying to record…its been driving me nuts!! Can you help🙏🏾🥺

[@LearnCompositionOnline]

Great question!!! WHy is the score editor still a dinossaur! And midi channel features and mockup friendliness . Logic is so good that even the discriminated part still works more of less well to do the job and better than many other apps lol

[@joshryan9397]

Yes! Please logic improve your score editor!

[@outerdarkness]

That is cool - it is crazy audio interfaces companies have not taken advantage of this great feature. Do other DAWs have this type of functionality? I have not seen it.....

[@evayin6606]

Hi. I’m currently using apogee, when I enable the audio device Control, it only shows me the ⭕️ volume , but didn’t show me the phantom power nor the option for mic or instrument. May I know why 😢

[@barnyardrecordings]

I agree. It's a missed opportunity, especially the direct monitoring.

[@musicwitharijit]

Indeed very true

[@danielel9191]

There are a lot of wierd things hapening these days with Logic pro and I am wondering if Apple should maybe consider buying one of those developpers out and go solo. I frankly will never spend time learning a new DAW as it took me for ever to learn how to use Logic and the hardware Apple builds has always been reliable and stable for me professionnally. Plus, I get constant upgrades and updates free with Apple .

[@vadimmartynyuk]

same with Cubase, only Steinberg interface's are compatible with Cubase's hardware integration. But in both Logic and Cubase cases, I always prefer to use Interface's dedicated mixer

[@splodge9]

How do you tell if your interface supports it? I’m using Behringer WING.

[@olleyollet]

just kinda feels like if a company promised to support this going forward for a flagship interface they would idk literally rake in cash seems like a no brainer to me especially if little people are doing it. i would love to hear a perspective of a developer who has looked over the API though. Maybe its easier said then done? maybe it requires the interfaces to behave a way the manufacturers dont want? I have to wonder.

[@smyrnian_]

Completely agree! You tell'em dude! :)

[@janmcwilliams5998]

Wow! Anything to make recording music easier it would be much appreciated. Thank you.

[@serenitynow66]

Awesome stuff I agree totally.

[@N8oRMusic]

Will Logic ever upgrade the amps and guiar effects? The high gain amps sound terrible. They don't come close to 3rd party plugins such as Guitar Rig and TH-U.

[@fritsvanzanten3573]

Even before watching the video, based on other applications: a major difference between Apple on the one side and Windows (and Linux) on the other side is dat Apple is very, very strict in what you are allowed to do within their OS. In website design I had to find out that, given/even there are rules, Windows is rather messy with applying the rules; things that shouldn't work do work, things that are not allowed can be done. Which causes a large part of the security issues and with that cybercrime. Which causes Windows computers to get clogged, PCs stalling end owners spending hours in computer maintenance. The advantage is you can make a lot of things work, even when you make mistakes or work sloppy. Apple is also very strict on what you are allowed to do with the hardware. So the 'ignorance' is IMO largely (also) caused by this strictness which on the one hand makes you have to work harder (=more time, more money) in development and on the other hand in the limited options/features you can offer in your product. Users have to choose: reliability and quality or more features and sloppiness/unreliability.

[@robertlofgren6834]

I have just tried to find this api documentation after watching your video, but failed. Do you You know where I can find this info? As a developer myself I’d like to learn more about this, as an owner of an x32 and Wing.

[@rotskep]

from the perspective of the manager of the devs that would implement this: does it make business sense to spend 100s of dev hours working on a feature that will only help logic users? or does it make more sense to spend those dev hours on something else that would benefit the entire user base? like sure, apple offers an api for this. i’m sure that they try to make it “easy to implement”. but if you go ahead and implement it. then you also have to maintain it indefinitely, even when apple decides to change the api. it just doesn’t make sense to prioritize this over literally anything else an audio company has on its plate. the only way apple get more companies on board is if they made this an open standard and other DAWs supported it.

[@studio-d943]

Totaly right!

[@benyano1]

Well said!

[@dougc84]

It's not just Logic. Many of these companies have closed APIs for their own interfaces. I used to have a Focusrite interface (actually... still have it... oops) that, at least, had its own iPhone app that would talk to the interface so you could control it remotely. It blows me away how, in 2023, so many of these companies are terrified that someone might, IDK, change the volume level of an input on a niche hardware product by some other means than their own app. It's just corporate greed and selfishness, marketing to the highest common denominator (Windows users) first before macOS users. Heck, how many interfaces do you know actually respond to keyboard volume controls? Ugh.

[@bjornfrankl7916]

2023, audio interface brands should compete with I/O capabilities and of course quality. At the end of the day, that's what counts the most. Not the silly bells and whistles. Give me a break ...

[@tonedowne]

I really thought Apogee were going to make an interface/Logic control, about 15 years ago.

[@joewilliams5396]

Apogee interfaces too expensive for my needs, however I do agree with you, I've felt manufacturer's put Logic at the bottom of their list or I perceive this to be.

[@weschilton]

I would guess that UA wants you to use Luna, so they are very unlikely to support Logic Pro in this way.

[@arlandajim]

Good video. it would be cool if we could twitch these controls with a Mackie control surface .

[@deryckroche]

I agree 100%

[@bryanschearf8167]

I agree 1000 percent.

[@k8jun1]

Thank you, I would have never figured that out…..

[@justinjayankura8676]

I wish that work with Antelope Audio interfaces.

[@Jdinrbfidndifofkdndjoflfndjdk]

As a developer here, if it's not a standard, I do understand why companies don't jump into development. You need all the mayor DAWs to push this

[@WhyLogicProRules]

I appreciate your perspective on this topic, as that certainly makes sense. I suspect if enough Logic users are clamoring for this type of functionality, at the very least I assume it would encourage some developers to reconsider. That's what I'm hoping for!

[@joshryan9397]

Do not other DAW’s have direct monitoring and better integration with more audio interfaces? Like avid and pro tools? Why does the DAW companies have to push for it? They aren’t the consumer of the audio interface products. We are and we want it. It seems like an obvious benefit that everyone would want.

[@Jdinrbfidndifofkdndjoflfndjdk]

@@joshryan9397 There's always a backlog of things to do in Engineering and usually the low effort high impact will be prioritised. This feature is definitely technical dept. It's not only building it is also maintaining it. Doing it for one DAW is not that impactful especially when you can gain stage in the hardware.

[@Jdinrbfidndifofkdndjoflfndjdk]

To add to this... A more reasonable approach is for a standard to be generated agreed by DAWs and then implemented so that they don't have to code a different version for each DAW

[@raggedrec]

i wonder if Presonus allows it? as it's exactly how their hardware works with Studio One full cohesive interaction between daw and desks

[@powellrandolph]

I am wondering that myself. I use 2 Quantums as an aggregate device for recording my drums but use Logic Pro X for my daw instead of Studio One.

[@raggedrec]

yeah Studio One is the only daw i dont use with all my presonus gear@@powellrandolph

[@onairmastering]

You know a company no one talks about? Metric Halo! I'm gonna check if I can use these with my 2882.

[@zeitakulobusta]

Unfort nope but you should ask, they're quite responsive.

[@somedood6621]

Audient if you do see this, I agree with what's being said here.

[@WayneDawkinsThePartyMan]

Yes that is odd

[@EmmittSiniard]

Doesn’t the Symphony Desktop interface take advantage of this feature?

[@nicolasstrawberry4148]

Nope, they said it was coming and then apparently removed all the future updates from the calender for it they had on their website. smh

[@FabricioEspinozaMora]

Agree 100%

[@johnhricko8212]

Isn't it down to all of the manufactures of interfaces agreeing to a "standard"? "class compliant"?... Some think standards deter innovation - not! Ever hear of a little thing called midi?.... In the early days of sequencers, and then, DAWs, Apple was the assumed king. The markets were much smaller, and Apple paid extra attention to media production. External hard drives allowed quick replacements, if needed (studios), and allowed more mobility of that data. But I've also heard some older engineers say "standards are great. That's why we have so many of them…" ;-) Wouldn't the API have to be implemented by all the manufactures? My simplest reaction is, they don't do it, because it costs more money....

[@sekritskworl-sekrit_studios]

Interesting. Does RME not provide any of this either?

[@WhyLogicProRules]

Last I heard some RME interfaces do use this integration. I'm not intimately familiar with RME interfaces. If they do, that's awesome. Can anyone confirm?

[@sekritskworl-sekrit_studios]

Thank you for taking time to respond,@@WhyLogicProRules. I'll likely have Logic Pro next year, and will come to seek out more of your content. Please be well.

[@multimartinmusic10]

My RME Babyface Pro does display and function with the control at the top of the strip for input level. Love your videos, Chris.

[@sunny6ville]

My UCX II doesn't have this functionality. I had a Babyface Pro FS last year and it didn't either. If multimartinmusic has some version of this on his Babyface, maybe its coming. But I'll believe it when I see it on my own devise!

[@michaelruiz3167]

I checked this function out on Logic Pro 10.6.3 and Catalina 10.15.7 and I cant seem to find it, is it a bit more hidden in my case or am I not able to access it with Focusrite Saffire Pro40 Which by the way does everything pretty smoothly.

[@MrBaggins909]

These controls only appear if the interface is able to work this way. For example I have an old Apogee Duet and that only shows the preamp gain (a number and a volume control) other interfaces will show extra features if enabled (as shown in WLA's video). If nothing appears then nothing is compatible. Sure is about time the manufacturers got this sorted out imho!

[@michaelruiz3167]

@@MrBaggins909 I agree I asummed that by the manner in which it was shown in the video that it was something that should have appeared for years.

[@MrBaggins909]

@@michaelruiz3167 Weirdly after I wrote this I went back to an older mac (running High Sierra!) and on the channel strips there it showed all the audio interface controls but greyed out (as using an old NI interface that can't use them). So I think Apple hid these more recently and they only show up now when a compatible interface is used.

[@michaelruiz3167]

@@MrBaggins909 On my computer they aren’t greyed out, you can check them but they don’t show, maybe something hasn’t been turned on in the preferences I just haven’t found it yet if thats the case.

[@joeguitar7164]

These proprietary apps from audio interfaces are always a ui-nightmare to me; they are confusing and cumbersome at best. Integration w lp would be much appreciated. 🙏🏻

[@thaddeuscorea]

I have always wanted these basic controls! I didn't know they were there! This feature did not work with my old Apogee AD-16x, and does not work with my new Orion, nor does it work with my MOTU monitor 8. Sad Face! Apple, please, at least give us phase flip and hpf(adjustable) at the top of every channel!!!!

[@pbbeck01]

Amen!

[@conrow1157]

So true

[@nicolasstrawberry4148]

Im really disappointed that Apogee didn't give us this with the Symphony Desktop, they said it was coming with a future software update as well as midi over usb but apparently they seem to have abandoned any further software development for the Symphony Desktop which is really a let down. Im a longtime fan a Apogee but they really let us down with that one. Even my old Apogee Duet 2 has it but not the Symphony Desktop??? Which is newer and cost over twice as much??? Come on Apogee!!!!!!!!! 😠

[@blasegangbeats1865]

I wish Apple would just make one amazing one for the one time.

[@arlandajim]

[@bibinashok9537]

👍👍👍

[@antkn33]

It’s usually apples fault for this kind of thing. They are making it hard for devs somehow… perhaps they keep changing the api, permissions needed, licensing fees… this is the kind of things I hear from devs when I ask similar questions

[@scottfrost317]

You forgot @rme

[@GiacomoArdesi]

🙌

[@zeitakulobusta]

That's. Some fairly. Heav. Gating.

[@kingech_B15]

you fill in the gap

[@mattrixx_audio]

Or even better.. RME Totalmix.

[@ak5]

Apple computers (over priced and shitty OS). Logic pro might be good but, the issue is it only works on MAC OS which is crap! I would never buy an Apple computer to produce music as they can not handle the power processing as compared to a custom built computer running a MS OS at half the price - plus like I said the MAC OS sucks and hate using it. - Cheers!

[@rickyparis5005]

Don't understand why you are reading this thread if you not a Mac user

[@APaclin]

It's not an advantage, because all of these buttons and knobs are right on the interface and it's faster to press and turn them there. 🙂 So this argument doesn't count.

[@weschilton]

What if you are behind the drums and running Logic Remote and you want to set preamp gain or flip the polarity on a mic? Then you have to get up and run back and forth. Having this feature available in Logic would be a HUGE help for me when setting gain for drums.

[@tobimontana61]

Thanks for clarifying that only your opinion, workflow and setup counts and the many thousands of people who could greatly benefit from such a feature are just morons…

[@TheAllang123]

Who thinks Tobimontana is a cranky pants?!

[@StaminaMC]

You do. Points were made, though.

[@Bradleybrookwood]

Would anybody be kind enough to explain where he went to access all of these features? I'm trying to follow along as a person with disabilities and I can't see because I'm completely blind. If you could please somebody please describe to me what he did to enable these features, Where he went if he had to go to the settings or if he had to go to system preferences. If someone could clarify all of that for me that would be greatly appreciated. I love using logic Pro so any help would be appreciated. Also the audio interface that I recently got is the pro caster duo. Is that compatible with those settings in logic?