Audio Engineer Reacts to Apple Music Updates // Lossless & Spatial Audio

[@JohnDeLeon28]

It’s the Spatial Audio with Dolby Atmos is the game changer here. Can’t wait!

[@RyanGreen]

Yeah that’s definitely the interesting one!

[@Mistermusk]

Does it support iPhone Se 2016 and iPhone 6s because they have the headphone jack.

[@RyanGreen]

@@Mistermusk from what I’ve read it’s currently iPhone 7 and onwards, but I don’t have any way of testing that

[@Mistermusk]

I read the supported devices article from apple they said any device for the lossless and 7 onward for the Dolby atoms. With an update need to be iOS 14.6 and up. But I wanna be sure.

[@RyanGreen]

Ah yup, that makes sense!

[@carminedesanto6746]

Stereo imaging , quality mixes, decent recordings, dynamic range...the essence of high fidelity audio....all will be lost ..like tears in the rain.

[@RyanGreen]

Yeah possibly, I think there’s a lot to be seen. If mixers treat it like a gimmick it’ll be awful, but I could see some thoughtful uses as well

[@carminedesanto6746]

@@RyanGreen The only possible exception..maybe are Movie Soundtracks like Interstellar...lots of additional audio sound effects along with the music of Hans Zimmer 😎

[@larsandersen9134]

Do you mean it'll be bad if they up-mix a stereo signal to spatial audio, or will it be bad if the artist compose and master it in a spatial audio format?

[@carminedesanto6746]

@@larsandersen9134 the vast majority of people on Apple 🍎 aren’t streaming ITunes and are those who think that the Apple 🎧 is a good headphone..it’s best feature is when it’s not playing music ( it’s noise canceling) otherwise it’s at best a $200 headphone NOT a $600 set. This may become a gimmick and permanently screw up an otherwise good tune. “Enhancement” tools should be used both sparingly and wisely.

[@larsandersen9134]

@@carminedesanto6746 I know, but I am not one of those people you mention. I am interested in HiFi and also new technologies. I have dedicaded DAC, AMP and HD800S headphones (for now) ;-)

[@iceburg2k]

Thanks for your thoughts and the recommendations, I’m totally checking them out 😃

[@RyanGreen]

No problem!

[@kevinpunter7960]

I'm watching your videos in reverse order .. kinda fun! Knowing the difference when I was doing A/B comparisons between various compressed formats and lossless always had me convinced I would hear a difference because I new the answer - but I was always certain I could detect a subtle difference. I just did the NPR test and got 5 out of 6 even though I wasn't using my best kit. It could be luck though as a test of 20+ samples would be more dependable. I have had a hearing test as recently as one week ago and the result was extremely good (my wife just got hearing aids so I got a test from the same place for the heck of it). Spoiler from the future, your comments on spacial ... AHHHH there's a man from the future with a gun coming to correct the timeline!

[@RyanGreen]

Hahaha glad the videos are still helpful the wrong way around 😂

[@Commander_HW]

I really want you to make a video about how to listen to lossless audio on computers and iPhones. Including all the adapters and dac and amp even cables, u know the whole nine yard. Because I saw a lot of people using the lightning to 3.5mm adapter to listen to the Apple High Res Lossless audio, and little did they know is that, the lightning to 3.5 adapter can only deliver up to 24bit/48khz(lossless), therefore u ain't gonna get the 24bit/192khz(high res lossless) quality.

[@RyanGreen]

Yep, but honestly I think 24bit/48kHz is great. It's a real diminishing returns thing above that point

[@mikeymofonz]

I’m using airpods max on Apple Music and I’m sure I can hear a quality improvement playing the lossless with the cable plugged in. I guess it’s only up 48khz and yeah it’s doing some conversions but end result is still great. Still on the fence with spatial audio in the music. I think the Max headphones do a really good job of sound stage and separation even without spatial audio turned on anyway.

[@RyanGreen]

Yeah unfortunately I don't have AirPods Max to test on!

[@mikeymofonz]

@@RyanGreen I tried that kraftwerk track you suggested and wow it’s really good!, it proves there is definitely a place for spatial audio when done correctly.

[@RyanGreen]

@@mikeymofonz definitely!

[@marclorenz27]

Seen this from a post on reddit. Great insights. I totally agree that the majority of people won't notice a difference with the audio files especially if they don't have the equipment for it. I also agree that we can't complain because it's a feature that is offered by Apple for free on Apple Music where the ones who needs and notices the difference within hifi audio or not are gonna benefit.

[@RyanGreen]

Cool! Thanks for stopping by! Yep. I’m waiting for everyone to claim they can hear the difference without realising they haven’t turned it on yet though 😂

[@marclorenz27]

You're Welcome @@RyanGreen That would be a total blunder for sure 🤣

[@RyanGreen]

Did you have a go at the listening test? It’s much harder than you’d think haha

[@marclorenz27]

@@RyanGreen Yeah, I did take the listening test. Never got a single correct answer 😂 There were some audio files that sounded better for me but it was the compressed one 🤣

[@RyanGreen]

Haha nice. The only way I could tell even a couple apart were just by listening to the very high end, there’s just a touch more detail in the wav

[@markchessler3875]

Artists and studios have already caught on. Universal and Warner Music have been creating content in the Dolby Atmos format for the last 2 years, so there are already thousands of tracks mixed specifically in Dolby Atmos.

[@RyanGreen]

Wow, is it that many already? I’d seen a few albums hype it but not heaps yet. Great to hear if it’s that many!

[@alexskyrahfall4962]

Can’t wait for the Dolby Atmos upgrade. If done right, it’s really great. The Blu-ray Bruce Springsteen/Western Stars has an Atmos track and it is just great. And as German, Westernhagen/das Pfefferminz Experiment as well as Grönemeyer/Mensch are amazing in Atmos. regarding your comment “listening to what the artist intended”, as my father told me countless times, the Beatles have mixed in mono while recording in stereo. As most people had mono equipment, they wanted to ensure a good listening experience. Oh btw the Lennon 80th birthday in Dolby Atmos is decent for a remix in Atmos.

[@RyanGreen]

Awesome to hear from someone who’s been listening to some atmos stuff already! The Beatles were actually who I had in mind haha, I think they’re an example where they cared about the mono mix, but we often listen to the stereo. If you can get hold of those original mono mixes, I think they’re much better than the stereo ones (not talking about the more recent remasters). The stereo mixes feel an audio engineer was playing with panning just because he could haha, the mono mixes feel much more intentional. Those are my thoughts anyway!

[@giladkingsley]

Did you here the Sennheiser HD560S? They're probably better than the 25 or the dt770

[@RyanGreen]

Yeah they’re nice as well! They’re quite a bit more expensive than the HD25 Lights, at least here in NZ. They’re probably pretty comparable to the DT770s, you can’t go wrong either way

[@gianluca6351]

Hello, I do not agree . It is quiet easy to undsrsrand the difference if You have hifi system with a DAC, also iPhone with Audioquest dragonfly black or red with wired headphone or hi fi system

[@RyanGreen]

Yeah it's definitely easier with proper equipment, do you still find it easy between high quality compressed and lossless? 128kbps can be pretty obvious, but I've normally been fairly happy with 320kbps. How about you?

[@kristopherlee5282]

Lossless audio = more data cannot be a bad thing! Not sure about adding software to make it sound better ie… Dolby atmos but I will wait to hear it before judgment.

[@RyanGreen]

Yeah there’s no negatives to lossless except data costs haha

[@pinaxa]

At the moment all the streaming services that use immersive audio (Tidal, Amazon and now Apple) support Dolby Atmos(c Universal and WarnerMusic )and 360 Reality audio (x Sony Music) so the standards are the same for all platform.

[@RyanGreen]

Yeah it’s a very promising start, and Dolby have definitely laid the groundwork. I’m very curiously waiting for Spotify haha

[@walidzein1]

Just get the hd6XX

[@JoeHenkel]

Heck yeah! Great content!

[@RyanGreen]

Thanks Joe! Appreciate it!

[@Sweeperzzz20]

My browser (iPhone 11) not supporting lossless audio streaming while I check your quality surveys Any fix for that?

[@RyanGreen]

Seems it hasn't reached everyone yet. Hopefully asap!

[@DaveJohnsonOttawa]

Solid capture of the facts. Ironically though, even with my iFi hip DAC connected to my iPhone or iPad, & AudioTechnica M-50X's, neither Chrome, nor Safari support lossless sound samples from the NPR site. I'll try it on my PC, just a browser limitation on iOS it seems. Further, as someone who keeps a large download of music on my phone for the highway, I'd been able to try the usual Apple Music AAC downloads vs, streaming lossless, and high-res lossless and it's night and day between all formats - MP3 is for the birds. & BTW, I'd also trialled Tidal (& hip DAC supports MQA), and Apple's hi res lossless rivals Tidal's best. Well worth the extra kit! As for spatial; interesting, but doesn't rate compared to the lossless execution here.

[@CeloyG]

Does loseless and spatial audio Works with Chrome in a PC with windows 10?

[@classicaloracle]

Here I am with my wired Sennheisers feeling pretty smug! Their time has come again!

[@RyanGreen]

Haha keeping a wired setup has definitely payed off!

[@larsandersen9134]

When Apple offers lossless and spatial audio at the same time, do they have two version of the same tune then? A HiFi stereo version and a spatial version?

[@RyanGreen]

Yeah you’ll be able to turn each feature on or off independently. There will also be way more lossless tracks than spatial, at least to begin with

[@PabloGonzalez-ov5sv]

Is already available or when...? I´d like to test it...

[@RyanGreen]

They just announced that it’ll be available today!

[@PabloGonzalez-ov5sv]

@@RyanGreen uh! That’s great. Thanks!

[@johngeorge2341]

I’m curious what headphones did you use for your test?

[@RyanGreen]

The NPR test? I used Sennheiser HD25 Lights

[@musamnguni510]

lol I got a 5/6 for this test. I’m a little upset I didn’t catch the Jay - z song correct I swear that 128kbps sample sounded more cleaner than the 320kbps sample. But at the same time I chose to use A pair of Shure SE425 with no external DAC. Well I guess you cannot win them all 🤷‍♂️. Tbh they did Lossless for us the musicians and Sound engineers . I don’t think the general public will even notice or care to notice the difference 🤷‍♂️ yet alone buy all the gear to really appreciate the sound difference. It’s not a , they can’t hear it “thing” , it’s more of a they don’t know what to listen for “thing….”

[@RyanGreen]

Yeah totally, and it’s also a marketing thing. It’s free though so I’ll take it! Nice work on the 5/6 as well! What in particular were you listening for to tell them apart?

[@musamnguni510]

@@RyanGreen Oh that’s quite interesting how I had to morph my process of listening. Each song was slightly different. I’ll mention a few the cold play one almost got me though. SUZANNE VEGA ‘Tom’s Diner’ Here’s what I primarily focused on in this song When she says “I am sitting in the morning “ I had a listen to the first sample. Then the second one. I noticed that she sounded a bit more natural and warm on the first one And Little dryer on the second one . I also picked up the crispness on the Reverb EFFECTS . I want to say depth but it really didn’t have a crazy amount of differences in terms of sound stage. COLDPLAY ‘Speed of Sound’ This song was a little tricky for me because 1 - I’m a drummer. So the first sample was a little more pleasing to me because the hi hats stuck out a little more to my liking But they don’t necessarily sound better on the 320kbps sample. They sound more crisp with the high hat barks and Ostinatos his playing on the hi hat whiles also playing the 8th notes on the ride . The real culprit that exposed the 320kbps Sample to me was The AUX Synth Pad. You can distinctly distinguish it between the two samples. But gosh that was a hard one to make out . The sound sounded almost identical to me. NEIL YOUNG ‘There’s A World’ The guys voice is slightly warmer and more natural sounding on the 320KBPS sample but I figured it out from the quality difference of the Glockenspiel. I hope this is the correct instrument. 🤔 if it isn’t this my next best guess would be a set of Triangles. MURRAY PERAHIA & THE ENGLISH CHAMBER ORCHESTRA Mozart: Piano Concerto No. 17, K. 453 (II. Andante) The string section sticks out a little more on the 320kbps sample. But what I noticed was this sound after he plays the first progression on they keys. It sounds like his letting go of the sus pedal on the piano …. I don’t know if that’s what really happened . But I heard it. KATY PERRY ‘Dark Horse’ The Katy Perry song was a little tricky . There’s this E” EFX sound that plays on repeat. I hear them canceling each other out on the 320kbps sample. I’m not going to embarrass myself trying to explain it better than this. The Jay - Z song I got wrong. But I’m conflicted with the WHATS right and wrong I swear that 128kbps sample had more detail in it . I think what maybe happened is that they took out Effect they knew you weren’t going to hear to open up the mix for other things to stick out better. Which in my opinion is amazing. We are getting a different interesting prospect from a smaller sample

[@RyanGreen]

Thanks for the thorough response! Really interesting. I found the Coldplay one tricky as well, there’s a little bit of distortion in two of the three recordings, but the one that doesn’t have distortion is the 128kbps version, and I almost preferred that haha

[@musamnguni510]

@@RyanGreen Like I was saying earlier on I don’t think the rest of the listeners can’t hear what we do . They just don’t know what to listen for …. But thanks for the awesome video man and the reference to the website. I need to check why I can’t see an option for a wav file. 🤔. I have a pair of JBL S700 Synchros so I’ll pull out the big guns tonight and have another listen to those samples . Do you own a set of in ears or are you a over head headphones kinda guy ?

[@RyanGreen]

No worries! Glad you enjoyed it! Yeah I own some custom in-ears from Alclair, but they’re primarily for stage use. Editing and mixing is primarily through my HD25s, or my AKGs before that which need an earcup replaced

[@RogerZoul]

I did horribly on that npr audio test. i got two correct but that was only because i guessed correctly. i probably should have used headphones but i no longer have a wired hookup and it probably wouldnt matter for my oldish ears. :(

[@RyanGreen]

That’s more normal than you’d think, I really don’t think the differences are huge

[@aussie8114]

I got 4 out of 6 correct. When do I get my prize 🎁

[@RyanGreen]

Haha nice work, it’s primarily a bragging rights thing 😉

[@ankit55ahlawat]

Bro is Apple dongle enough to drive Tin HiFi T2 IEMs in lossless format? Thanks in advance.

[@RyanGreen]

Yep! It’ll work fine. I have to say that’s part of the reason I’m scared of these rumours of a portless iPhone though, I need access to a headphone jack even if it’s a dongle 😬

[@ankit55ahlawat]

Ryan Green same concern bro 😒

[@RyanGreen]

Them releasing lossless audio makes me think they’ll have to keep a hardware solution of some kind, but I guess we’ll wait and see

[@ankit55ahlawat]

Ryan Green may be they will find a solution for Bluetooth like LDAC

[@RyanGreen]

Yeah, or honestly I just hope they keep the port lol

[@adamrodriguez5298]

Ok wired headphones do not work on new Apple devices. iPhone 12 & IPad Pro do not have wired capabilities. So where would you listen to Apple Music? I guess on the Apple TV 4K through your speakers?

[@RyanGreen]

It’ll work through the Lightning to 3.5mm adapter, at least up to 24bit/48kHz!

[@mtnmankeith9069]

Rumor has it Apple will use airplay to transmit there lossless audio. 🤫

[@gaminggod4646]

I have beats studio 2 wired, it’s not working for the lossless audio. Need some help out here 🙋🏻‍♂️

[@RyanGreen]

Hey! Yeah still waiting for the features to be properly released. Apple said early June, so hopefully in the next week!

[@gaminggod4646]

@@RyanGreen it still isn’t out yet in 14.6?

[@RyanGreen]

Not yet. It should be in the Music settings, but nothing yet

[@mohnishg5091]

May i know why the video has too much of cuts

[@RyanGreen]

To cut out my mistakes haha

[@mohnishg5091]

@@RyanGreen but honestly those cuts were too much like t😲😲😲😲😲😲😲😲 much

[@MrNirajkunte]

Hey thanks for this video!! Is lossless available on Apple music android app??

[@RyanGreen]

That is a good question I haven’t thought about! My guess would be yes, and I found one article from Apple Insider that says yes as well, so hopefully? It hasn’t been released for anyone yet though, hopefully in the next few days

[@mher6874]

Yes it will be available for Android too

[@philipketchum1407]

4 out of 6 on my plug-in Apple standard buds with my 11 phone.

[@RyanGreen]

You either have great hearing or great luck 😂 nice work

[@mikea7739]

I got 6/6! There were two tricky ones for me but I got them right! :)

[@RyanGreen]

Nice! You might be the winner haha

[@mikea7739]

@@RyanGreen Do I get a prize? Hahaha

[@RyanGreen]

@@mikea7739 haha I wish, this channel doesn’t quite fund prizes yet

[@unknown-us5vs]

Heyy,Idk why i can get spatial audio in only-(Hi this is flume ) and no other song with spatial audio

[@RyanGreen]

Yeah, couple things: Firstly this won’t be on all songs. Artists will actually have to release their songs this way, so we’ll have to see how common it is. Secondly, this isn’t properly rolled out yet. It’s meant to be released early June, but Apple haven’t said it’s live yet. Could be that what you’re seeing is a glitch, hard to know yet

[@unknown-us5vs]

@@RyanGreen thanks😊

[@RyanGreen]

No worries!

[@polishdude001]

Anyone manage to get lossless working on android app

[@RyanGreen]

I'm not sure on this but I don't think it's available yet on Android

[@polishdude001]

@@RyanGreen they said lossless would be available on launch. But not atmos. Guess we're waiting :(

[@RyanGreen]

Oh right, your app is up to date and you’ve checked settings? That’s all I can think of and I don’t have a device to test on sorry

[@polishdude001]

@@RyanGreen yea I think they are just slow with rollout. I had to wait till the next day in Canada for it to work on my iPad and apple tv. But I played Bruce Springsteens greatest hits with my parents last night on our home theater speakers. It sounded really good

[@JuanJohn013]

AirPods Max with the wired has to convert digital to analog then back to digital. That’s why they can’t call it lossless but it’ll have the same bite rate

[@RyanGreen]

Yeah I think it will be better than Bluetooth (hopefully?) but according to Apple will still be lossy